"Everdrive" cartridge for GX4000

[andycadley]

You look to have not read the SyX posts. If it's a problem for some of you to use a standard ROM board for development, it is possible to make a custom version that boot like a PLUS cartridge. (as the CTC-AY devkit does)

Works like the cartridge stuff is documented isn't necessarily the same as works the way the cartridge actually does work. Not to mention that I'd want to try stuff out on an actual GX4000, plugged into a telly and everything, because that too will have quirks compared to a Plus machine and CPC monitor.

And standard ROM boards don't support RMR2, which again is pretty much crucial for making full use of the GX hardware.

[Trebmint]

Not really sure why this is even an argument. A cart is a piece of genuine Amstrad hardware that existed, and now we no longer have ability to use. That's a shame and should be rectified. Games do exist that would take advantage of it, both patched and new, and if it existed I seriously doubt that more new games wouldn't have been released for it and even designed for it rather than just a souped up cpc game.


If I was a hardware guy rather than just software I'd have done it if my abilities allowed. I understand that people with the hardware ability to pull this off would much rather do something funky and limit pushing like the PlayCity which is an awesome thing, and not just create something that's already been done as that's no challenge. Doesnt stop us coders and gamers that would like to see the plus pushed further being frustrated that we've waited years and still seemingly are getting nowhere with out desire

[TotO]

And standard ROM boards don't support RMR2, which again is pretty much crucial for making full use of the GX hardware.

The funny thing is that we offer you a way to develop games on GX/PLUS with a custom board...
... But you don't want because it's not the final product.   

You think that it will be a "standard ROM board" and that will be not able to support a "pretty much crucial" feature...
... Only used into 1 game. 

You only see problems when you got solutions.
I have better to do, so...

Bye!

[Trebmint]

The funny thing is that we offer you a way to develop games on GX/PLUS with a custom board...
... But you don't want because it's not the final product.   

You think that it will be a "standard ROM board" and that will be not able to support a "pretty much crucial" feature...
... Only used into 1 game. 

You only see problems when you got solutions.
I have better to do, so...

Bye!

Wow, this threads one of the dozens that are primarily about wouldn't it be nice to create some cart games again and sell them... probably the most recurring thread there is on the wiki which must say something. And yeah a solution to developing in a better way would be great, though personally i'd use Winape right up to the last phase anyway.


But no, any solution that requires a copy of Burning Rubber to hang off the side of a machine isn't a solution to the actual issue.... I can develop plus software, and I have developed plus software, and I still have no way of deploying it. Not much more to be said... The most obviously wanted and needed piece of hardware required on the scene and all its probably never going to happen. Makes me sad

[Bryce]

Here's my two cents from a hardware view-point.

My idea of a programmable Cart gives a good balance: 256K With BASIC / AMSDOS / Flash Programming Software + 256K CPC writeable Flash. The user could buy one without any new games having been released, because he can put whatever he likes on it, ie: Existing games that he doesn't want to buy on ebay for gaziollions of Euros. This cartridge would be the same size as a standard cartridge, fit in a standard cartridge case and can be used to develop software. And you only need one of them.
If and when someone writes a Cartridge game, then he can put that on it without having to buy another cartridge just for that game.

The "There's no plus games cause there's no medium" argument is a steaming pile. Plus games can run from disks too. So where are they? There are a few, but most developers will tell you: They can make a game for the Classic CPC and 1000's will play it. But how many people own a Plus?

Bryce.

[arnoldemu]

Works like the cartridge stuff is documented isn't necessarily the same as works the way the cartridge actually does work. Not to mention that I'd want to try stuff out on an actual GX4000, plugged into a telly and everything, because that too will have quirks compared to a Plus machine and CPC monitor.

And standard ROM boards don't support RMR2, which again is pretty much crucial for making full use of the GX hardware.

What I would like to know is if a rom board responded to 128-255, would this also allow RMR2 to also work?

If so you could attach a ROM board to the back of a 6128Plus and use that for some of the development, but bear in mind that the GX4000 doesn't have a "disc" page, it doesn't activate at least not in normal position 7.
But it is active at &83.

[Trebmint]

Here's my two cents from a hardware view-point.

My idea of a programmable Cart gives a good balance: 256K With BASIC / AMSDOS / Flash Programming Software + 256K CPC writeable Flash. The user could buy one without any new games having been released, because he can put whatever he likes on it, ie: Existing games that he doesn't want to buy on ebay for gaziollions of Euros. This cartridge would be the same size as a standard cartridge, fit in a standard cartridge case and can be used to develop software. And you only need one of them.
If and when someone writes a Cartridge game, then he can put that on it without having to buy another cartridge just for that game.

The "There's no plus games cause there's no medium" argument is a steaming pile. Plus games can run from disks too. So where are they? There are a few, but most developers will tell you: They can make a game for the Classic CPC and 1000's will play it. But how many people own a Plus?

Bryce.

Well I have 3 games I'd like to put on cart where they should be. 1 being a game that's already known as one of the few plus only games and the other 2 being at about 75%-85% complete. You can dismiss me if you like when I say if there was a solution I'd write more too. None of these will see the light of day until hardware exists so show them off though. One will require 512k though, the others 128k. Disk is a poor solution and also hard to find in working condition.

There are 1000's of CPC games already,  and I have little interest in just adding to the numbers. Writing a plus game adds something that doesn't exist.
Your solution Bryce isn't perfect from my point of view in that its more of a storage device rather than a single permanent game, but if that's the only solution then I'd use and support it.

[arnoldemu]

.. A cart is a piece of genuine Amstrad hardware that existed, and now we no longer have ability to use. That's a shame and should be rectified. ...


If I was a hardware guy rather than just software I'd have done it if my abilities allowed.

I agree with all points here. If I was a hardware guy I would have made it too.

Lets go back to your point about printed cartridges. It would be interesting to know if these would be rigid enough to make it easy for insertion/removal many times.

I saw this on atariage:

ivop's Blog - Making you own polyurethane cartridge cases - Member Blogs -

[Bryce]

Your solution Bryce isn't perfect from my point of view in that its more of a storage device rather than a single permanent game, but if that's the only solution then I'd use and support it.

Actually, I proposed three solutions a while back, they were something like this:

1 - Simple 512K Cartridge for people to release games on (EPROM, not writeable from CPC).
2 - 256K Writeable Cartridge for both development and users to load games of their choice.
3 - 16x 128K MultiCart to allow people to have a collection of Cart games on one cartridge (EPROM, not writeable from CPC).

No. 1 is more what you are looking for, this needs to be a cheap as possible to allow games to be release at a reasonable price.
No. 2 is good for development but also good for users. 256K is of course a limitation, but it is required to allow the cartridge to be written directly from the CPC. Important for both developers and users and keeps the price relatively low too.
No. 3 is just something I made for myself but I thought others might be interested in it. My version still uses DIP switches to changes games, but I have also designed a software switchable version, but I haven't got around to building one yet.

Edit: If any developer (or a group of developers) are interested in a batch of 512K Cartridges for game release, then I have no problem getting a batch built, but the cases will have to be sorted by someone else. I don't see 3D printing as a solution for large volumes, mainly due to the time needed per case, but also because the surface finish just doesn't do it for me, they look like prototypes. Sanding the surface would be even more work.

Bryce.

[Trebmint]

I agree with all points here. If I was a hardware guy I would have made it too.

Lets go back to your point about printed cartridges. It would be interesting to know if these would be rigid enough to make it easy for insertion/removal many times.

I saw this on atariage:

ivop's Blog - Making you own polyurethane cartridge cases - Member Blogs -

Im sure its feasible to make a simplified cart cases using some sort of heath-robinson silicone mould. Im also sure 3d printing materials are pretty strong now. You can use ABS plastic which is very tough. If either of these look great I dont know. 3d printing can look a little rough still, and moulds are messy, simplified and warp after a few dozen uses. BluesBrother a year or so ago had some very cool looking cases made, what happened???


And TBH the price of the cartridge case within reason can be fairly pricey... we don't need to get them knocked out at 10p each do we


Problem is before we started with a case we'd need a pretty solid dimensions for the board.


I'm very aware that every hardware guy that could achieve this always wants to add something to it to make it better, reusable etc etc, when all I want is something I can plug a game into a slot with at a cheap enough price that we could actually sell a few cool looking games. That's buy a board and a case. Burn a ROM and stick it on the board, put it in the case and voila!


I think people would expect to pay around £25 - 40 for a new game on a Plus cart. If this is doable for this sort of price I really have no clue

[Trebmint]

Actually, I proposed three solutions a while back, they were something like this:

1 - Simple 512K Cartridge for people to release games on (EPROM, not writeable from CPC).
2 - 256K Writeable Cartridge for both development and users to load games of their choice.
3 - 16x 128K MultiCart to allow people to have a collection of Cart games on one cartridge (EPROM, not writeable from CPC).

No. 1 is more what you are looking for, this needs to be a cheap as possible to allow games to be release at a reasonable price.
No. 2 is good for development but also good for users. 256K is of course a limitation, but it is required to allow the cartridge to be written directly from the CPC. Important for both developers and users and keeps the price relatively low too.
No. 3 is just something I made for myself but I thought others might be interested in it. My version still uses DIP switches to changes games, but I have also designed a software switchable version, but I haven't got around to building one yet.

Edit: If any developer (or a group of developers) are interested in a batch of 512K Cartridges for game release, then I have no problem getting a batch built, but the cases will have to be sorted by someone else. I don't see 3D printing as a solution for large volumes, mainly due to the time needed per case, but also because the surface finish just doesn't do it for me, they look like prototypes. Sanding the surface would be even more work.

Bryce.

Yes Bryce the 1st is the option I'd prefer. Does that include the ACID solution? What would the approximate cost be? How much are 512k EPROMs?
If this was available then I'm sure we'd solve the case issue suitably

[mr_lou]

1 - Simple 512K Cartridge for people to release games on (EPROM, not writeable from CPC).
2 - 256K Writeable Cartridge for both development and users to load games of their choice.
3 - 16x 128K MultiCart to allow people to have a collection of Cart games on one cartridge (EPROM, not writeable from CPC).

I remember those.
I'm neither a developer nor a hardware dude. I'm just the guy who plays the games.
As a game-player I find myself mostly interesting in the first option, because I'm thinking I'll then get a whole 512k CPC game that loads everything instantly. That's gotta be awesome! 

Anyway. Why is it that we keep talking about this?
Who decides which of Bryce's 3 options we'll go with?
Should someone make a poll?
What does it take to get started?

[Bryce]

Yes Bryce the 1st is the option I'd prefer. Does that include the ACID solution? What would the approximate cost be? How much are 512k EPROMs?
If this was available then I'm sure we'd solve the case issue suitably

It depends a lot on volume. A single 512K EPROM costs about €6, but ordering in bulk can make a big difference. All of the proposals are based on a CPLD emulating the ACID.

Bryce.

[Trebmint]

It depends a lot on volume. A single 512K EPROM costs about €6, but ordering in bulk can make a big difference. All of the proposals are based on a CPLD emulating the ACID.

Bryce.

How much in general would the board & cpld be each if you were making 100-200? If the total price of the case, rom & board+cpld is around 20-25 euros im sure people would accept this

[nitrofurano]

from the ColecoVision scene (via AtariAge forum) i heard that they are mostly on burning and distributing 25 copies at minimum, of each game

[Bryce]

How much in general would the board & cpld be each if you were making 100-200? If the total price of the case, rom & board+cpld is around 20-25 euros im sure people would accept this

When I get a chance I'll get some quotes and tell you exactly.

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

How much in general would the board & cpld be each if you were making 100-200? If the total price of the case, rom & board+cpld is around 20-25 euros im sure people would accept this

I certainly would.

[Gryzor]

Catching up with the forum posts after coming back from vacation. This thread gave me sooo many déjà vus!

T

PS I love my Everdrives... HxC for consoles. Make things so much simpler and cheaper!

[Bryce]

PS I love my Everdrives... HxC for consoles. Make things so much simpler and cheaper!

Yeah, currently awaiting the arrival of my Gameboy Everdrive. With the GB it makes sense due to the massive library. Seriously good design too, that they managed to pack it into a standard cartridge case.

Bryce.

[dragon]

Yeah, currently awaiting the arrival of my Gameboy Everdrive. With the GB it makes sense due to the massive library. Seriously good design too, that they managed to pack it into a standard cartridge case.

Bryce.

Oh, but the problem with the game boy is... light . I buy a crappy copy clon gb boy with blacklight, and i waiting to arrive. But the biggest secret of game boy is:

Spoiler: ShowHide

If you play tic tac toe, the game boy play he alone eternelly, and he never win or lost.

Yeah you have discovered what is inside of W.O.P.R, a very early game boy prototype.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[Bryce]

I intend using it on my GBC with front light from Kitsch Bent installed.

Bryce.

[beaker]

Just get hold of a AGS 101 backlit SP. Only Gameboy I ever use these days.

[Bryce]

I have a frontlit SP AGS100 which is also fine, but I don't like using GBC carts on it cos they're too big.

Bryce.

[KaosOverride]

The problem to made a everdrive, is the gx4000 have a big flaw in the desing. In snes and the other consoles you can speak with the cartridge, you can save the games in the cartridges because the consoles can send/write information to it. So yo can tell to fpga format sd card, rename file in sdcard etc flash game from the sd to the memory flash... the gx4000 can only read the eeprom of the cartridge. So the aproach is different.

But the parallel port of the CPC is uni-directional, and is used for bidirectional (and slow incoming) transfers


You have the Adress Lines as Input to the cart!


Same as the ACID gets it's input from the Adress Lines, you can manage an "unlock code" for input data.


Example:



EPROM read &0000 ;EPROM read &0000 ;EPROM read &ffff ;EPROM read &ffff ;EPROM read &0000 ;EPROM read &0000   -- UNLOCKED INPUT MODE

EPROM read U ;EPROM read V ;EPROM read W ;EPROM read X ;EPROM read Y ;EPROM read Z   -- INPUT PARAMETERS U, V, W, X, Y, Z TO CPLD

After 6 byte is "sent", CPLD input is again LOCKED. You "read" 12 bytes from EPROM to send 6 raw bytes to CPLD

Then a command set must be defined for the CPLD parser: U should be a "command", and rest of inputs, it's variables


If the Boot menu just uses 16kb, you have lot of "128k EPROM" free. You can use another 16kb page for data exchange from the cart and the CPC, for example an "explorer" mode, so you have the .CPR files listed there, and the boot menu can just show on screen, you select one, send the command U="LOAD", V="Number 06" and .CBR number 6 is loaded, CPLD goes from "Explorer" (16kb program, 16Kb data) mode to 128, 256, 512 Kb EPROM mode depends of .CPR file size.


Also a future game could detect preence of the EverCPC, command U="Is EverCPC?", and reading the next variables, whatever you input for V W X Y Z, could retrieve a signature of 5 bytes as "EVCPC"


Then a command "SAVE" will start a dump to a file, same name as selected .CPR but with .SAV, easy for a high score board, 2 bytes for points, 3 bytes for 3 ASCII =5 bytes. Repeat save command  for each block of 5 bytes, and are saved secuentialy. A command "End SAVE" is sent again and file is closed. Same as OPENOUT, save raw data, CLOSEOUT!!


The U parameter is just a byte, so those "LOAD", "SAVE", etc commands are really 0, 1, 2....


Clean way to speak with the EverCPC??  I know is easy to invent all this stuff in a head, but to get it to a CPLD....




EDIT: My mistake. I', supposing the CPLD will just scan a byte from each U V W X Y Z after unlocking...

[Dr Tiger Ninestein]

Excuse my ignorance here but is there any current way of playing downloaded roms on the plus computer?