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4-player adapter? // MultiPlay MX4 Expansion

Started by mr_lou, 11:36, 29 June 15

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TFM

#150
Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:27, 08 July 15
I am sure you are competent at soldering. My solder skills are ok.
I am sure there are many more that can't do soldering!

Yours are better than mine for sure!  ;)

But I'm curious for the outcome of your poll tbh.
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

TotO

I will be back at home in 3 days.
I have to finish some boards (X-MEM, ...), but I will take a look about the MultiPlay "future".
Axelay made a great game example with QuadRaster and Arnoldemu support it into his emulator.

"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

TFM

Can you post a DSK of QuadRaster, to allow to understand what it is? [nb]Else I have tron in mind.  :) [/nb]
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

mr_lou

Quote from: TFM on 21:09, 08 July 15
Can you post a DSK of QuadRaster, to allow to understand what it is? [nb]Else I have tron in mind.  :) [/nb]

I've also been asking about QuadRaster.
Seems it's just not available for the public yet.
But I heard it was a 4-player "lightcycle game". So it's probably not completely wrong to have Tron in mind.

arnoldemu

Quote from: mr_lou on 05:29, 09 July 15
I've also been asking about QuadRaster.
Seems it's just not available for the public yet.
But I heard it was a 4-player "lightcycle game". So it's probably not completely wrong to have Tron in mind.
Yes it's a 4 player lightcycle game, overscan, mode 1. Made by Axelay.
It uses keyboard, 1 of the cpc's standard joysticks and both multiplay joysticks.

lightcycle = tron like game.
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Axelay

Quote from: mr_lou on 05:29, 09 July 15
I've also been asking about QuadRaster.
Seems it's just not available for the public yet.
But I heard it was a 4-player "lightcycle game". So it's probably not completely wrong to have Tron in mind.


My intention was to make it available alongside the Multiplay release.  It's not much use without it, it's 4 player only, but if you're getting hold of a Multiplay prototype, then I'm happy to supply it to you for your event.

arnoldemu

Quote from: TFM on 16:32, 08 July 15
Yours are better than mine for sure!  ;)

But I'm curious for the outcome of your poll tbh.
I am not so sure ;)

I am interested too. :)



My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

mr_lou

Quote from: Axelay on 13:42, 09 July 15
My intention was to make it available alongside the Multiplay release.  It's not much use without it, it's 4 player only, but if you're getting hold of a Multiplay prototype, then I'm happy to supply it to you for your event.

That would be awesome!
Yes, TotO has been kind enough to send me his Multiplay prototype. I expect he'll be mailing it within a few days.
I'll PM you my e-mail address.  :)
Thanks a lot!

TFM

Quote from: Axelay on 13:42, 09 July 15

My intention was to make it available alongside the Multiplay release.  It's not much use without it, it's 4 player only, but if you're getting hold of a Multiplay prototype, then I'm happy to supply it to you for your event.


Well, imho it shoud be easy to patch it for joystick 0 and 1 and and two times keyboard. So 4 players for everybody.  :)  Could you post a DSK?
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

mr_lou

Quote from: TFM on 17:14, 09 July 15
Well, imho it shoud be easy to patch it for joystick 0 and 1 and and two times keyboard. So 4 players for everybody.  :)  Could you post a DSK?

Doesn't the keyboard clash way too easily?

TFM

#160
Quote from: mr_lou on 18:37, 09 July 15
Doesn't the keyboard clash way too easily?
Not when using the right keys. Ages ago I made a nice program to check that visually:
(go to second 27)
! No longer available

You can download the program here:
(it's called Show Keys)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/FutureOS_Utilities.zip
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

mr_lou

Quote from: TFM on 18:54, 09 July 15
Not when using the right keys.

In other words the programmer will decide the keys in advance.

Well, 4 joysticks is far more fun anyway.
And it's about time the CPC got one of these 4-player adapters that other systems has had for years.

TFM

Quote from: mr_lou on 19:41, 09 July 15
In other words the programmer will decide the keys in advance.


That's not a prerequisite. I mean regarding light cycle usually very player presses one key at a time, so there shouldn't be too much hassle.
Of course it's nice if the game offers some pre-set key combinations. But that doesn't exclude the possibility to change keys too.


4-8 joysticks would be cool of course. But until we all have them there should be other solutions for existing hardware.  :)
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

TotO

With 4 controllers, you don't need to define keys... Just play.  ;D
But... Who really play on the same screen with up to 8 guys?
Should be better to think about network over 4 players, if games exist.

"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 08:12, 10 July 15But... Who really play on the same screen with up to 8 guys?

Don't know about 8 players, but Dynablaster on the Amiga allows for 5 players.
I think the Multiplay could just as well offer 4 ports, so that we could have 6-player games.
I understand you wish to save IO ports? Is this because of other expansions on the MX4?

TotO

#165
Quote from: mr_lou on 09:15, 10 July 15Don't know about 8 players, but Dynablaster on the Amiga allows for 5 players. I think the Multiplay could just as well offer 4 ports, so that we could have 6-player games.
I understand you wish to save IO ports? Is this because of other expansions on the MX4?
The CPC allow more I/O ports than other 8bit computers. It is not a problem to use 2, 4 or 16 of them only for the controllers.
I already can handle 4 players using 2 Multiplay boards... But, it is not the goal. (so few CPC games are 2 players...)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 10:12, 10 July 15But, it is not the goal. (so few CPC games are 2 players...)

I believe, generally you shouldn't base your hardware projects on the availability of software.

Create the hardware, then the software will come.

We saw that with the C4CPC. For months and months everyone was like: "No reason to create a multicartridge for the Plus range because there are no games!!!".
gerald (bless him) made one anyway, and BOOM we have a huge library of converted games. It's awesome!

You create a 4-player adapter that makes 6-player games possible and I bet developers and other enthusiasts will start creating/porting/patching games.
Then people who previously said: "Booh, the CPC doesn't even have a 4-player adapter" will now instead go "Damn! The CPC has a 6-player adapter! WTF?!?!"
If the CPC has enough CPU power to handle it, then why not?

But I get what you're saying. I can't imagine a lot of 6-player games either. A 6-player Lightcycle game of course. And maybe a 6-player Megablaster game.
The game I'm working on could also be adapted to 6 players, but all the sprites would have to be smaller then.

These games will of course only be played at gatherings. That's where they belong. My mates and I meet up twice a year. I encourage everyone to see if you can setup such a gathering with your own mates and mates' mates.  :) It's lot's of fun!  :)

TotO

Quote from: mr_lou on 12:29, 10 July 15Create the hardware, then the software will come.
Since the begin, it is possible to play to CPC games with 2 joysticks and KB at the same times... Games using this features are less than 1%.
It is not because the hardware exist that is used, but when it is not optional.
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 12:54, 10 July 15
Since the begin, it is possible to play to CPC games with 2 joysticks and KB at the same times... Games using this features are less than 1%.
It is not because the hardware exist that is used, but when it is not optional.

Good point.
I don't know how big a percent of the games on other platforms are 2-player games. It could be interesting to see if it's the same.

But I do believe that one reason that 2-player games are rare on the CPC is because people back then didn't think about 2 joysticks actually being possible, because there was only one plug on the computers. And the people who knew that 2 joysticks were possible would experience clashes - leaving them with the perception that it indeed really wasn't possible to do properly.

Apart from that, there's also a difference between back then and now.

Anyway, I'm not telling you how to do your Multiplay device. I was just suggesting that you made it into a 4-port device instead of a 2-port device. Especially if you say it's not important to save IO ports.
Just a suggestion. No need to discuss it if you don't want to.  :)

I'm sure I'll enjoy a 2-port device very much.  :)

TFM

Quote from: TotO on 08:12, 10 July 15
Should be better to think about network over 4 players, if games exist.


Sorry for getting offtopic here... Can your Mini-Booster be used for a local network of a few (3-6) CPCs? I'm not familiar with the (SPI?) interface of it. Sorry if this is a stupid question.
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

TotO

The MiniBooster itself is able to support that. Now, depending how you are connected (BT, Eth...), you can or not.
The best is probably to have a server and some clients for more than two linked computers.
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

TFM

Well, want to keep it all strictly CPC, no PC as servers. Thought more about an few CPCs connected to each other. IMHO there is no reason to go into internet, if we can have a better network for the CPC.


Sorry for derailing thread.  :-X
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

TotO

Why thinking about PC as server, when you should use a CPC?  :-\
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

TFM

Quote from: TotO on 14:09, 12 July 15
Why thinking about PC as server, when you should use a CPC?  :-\


Exactly!  :)
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

mr_lou

Did we ever agree on what was the best solution here?
Did the hardware gurus agree?

I find myself leaning towards TotO's multiplay because it feel lean. Easy to plug in, easy to support without complex code.
@TotO, how's it going with development of a batch?  :)

Of course, I just got myself a GX4000 now, which has neither keyboard nor expansion port.
@Bryce, have you thought any further on your idea?

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