464 Project

[Velociraptor]

In the 80s I had a 6128 and loved it, before moving on to an ST and forgetting it. Shortly I'm moving to a larger house and I'm going to have enough space to have some of my old microcomputers again.


I realised I wanted a 6128 and not a 464, even though I think a 464 looks more authentic because the 6128 had the disk controller so i could use a Gotek or similar.


However I found out about DDI-3 and DDI-5s and thought that opened the door to getting a 464. So I've got a "broken" one coming from ebay that I didn't pay a huge amount for.


My goal always was to refurb it up nicely, and my logic is that if I buy a nice shiny restored one I won't have the same attachment to it that I would if I actually did the work myself. Doing the recapping etc and cleaning it I will enjoy, even if I don't have a lot of time I'll now have the space to sit it down and pick it up as and when I want to do stuff but not have to shove it back in the loft.


So I now have this choice. What do I do with the 464 that's on it's way?


Do I just clean it up and get it working, change the rubber belts, recap it and sell it back on ebay, knowing that probably I won't break even but at least I'll have done it proud. And then try and get a 6128 somehow.


Or do I get the DDI-3/5, despite the warnings I've seen that it may not be durable and support may not be good.


Or, and this is my preferred option, if at all possible do I over time, in no hurry at all, somehow get the functionality up to 6128 levels. My understanding is that one step would be a DDI-1, which is the drive and interface from eBay.


The overall cost isn't too important, and although lots of people seem not to like how much space a 464 with peripherals takes, I'm quite fond of the idea. I'm not that bothered either if a rare piece of software or a demo or something won't work, so long as most stuff works.


tl;dr - A 6128 is by far the better buy but now I've bought a 464 can I make a project of it and bring it up to a good level of functionality, or should I quit while I'm only slightly down?

[LambdaMikel]

I think you would want to own both.


The 464 is the original and "face" of the CPC series, and the keyboard is superior (more ergonomic). The built-in datacorder is of value to some people as well - nothing feels as retro and 1985 as loading "Oh Mummy!" from tape! DDI3 is good, DDI4 has problems (doesn't really work with a DF1 IMHO), DDI5 I don't know. If you want 3" DF1 / DD1, then the DD1 (= DDI1 Interface + DF1) combo is the only reliable option that really works IMHO. 3.5" works well with DDI3 and DDI4  (and I don't know DDI5). Or you could just get the M4 board, then you won't need anything else really (maybe am memory expansion), but M4 cannot support all DSK images AFAIK but requires "cracked" versions. Which is not a big problem given that there is a huge ZIP archive that contains almost all the games for M4. 


The 6128 makes for a very powerful and space efficient system.

[Velociraptor]

Thanks Mikel!

Yes, I think the 464 looks more CPC than the 6128 and it was the 6128 I had.


I had a multiface2 and a tape deck so very rarely had disc games, so I do remember "Oh Mummy!".


I'm going to look into the M4 board then. As for a memory expansion is there something I can do myself inside the case, or is it going to have to be a dk'tronics, or a modern remake?


Edit : Oh and as for having both... I'm absolutely terrible for starting projects and buying the stuff and not getting around to them. So deffo only the 464.


The question I think still remains - can I turn the 464 into the end product and this M4 seems to suggest I can.

[LambdaMikel]

Well, yes, it is all a matter of personal style and preference...


I think @revaldinho 's RAM expansion is probably the most capable and useful one for the 464.
So you would need MotherX4 or LambdaBoard or @revaldinho 's backplane, his RAM expansion, as well as the M4 from @Duke
The LambdaBoard would have the advantage that you can then also plug in the DDI-1 / DD1 at the end. For MotherX4, you would need @TotO 's "Game Edge Adapter", which I have not tested yet so not sure how well it works with DD1 (there were some problems with MotherX4 due to voltage drops caused by some diode he had put in there, but he is now delivering it without the diode AFAIK). So not sure if the DDI-1 will work well with MotherX4. Ask him.


I know though that the DDI-3 does not work with the MotherX4 with diode (tried it myself). Make sure then you bridge or remove the diode.

[Velociraptor]

Well there's a lot of info for me to be getting on with - thanks again!


Am I right in thinking that none of these would have it pass the 6128 memory test that some stuff does by testing the rom version - if I'm not talking bollocks?

[Bryce]

If you have the space then keep the 464 too. It looks best and about 80% of original games work on it with no modification. For the others you can use the 6128.

Bryce.

[Gryzor]

I use my 6128 for normal use all the time. However, it can't beat my 464 in terms of affection. Yes I'm a bit weird.

[Velociraptor]

I think I'm going to do the 464 as a project and I won't buy a 6128 unless I really feel compelled.

Some of these things mentioned, and I've not had a chance to look properly, look like they might need assembly, buying a board and then the components etc. I'm totally up for that.

[260Z]

Well there's a lot of info for me to be getting on with - thanks again!


Am I right in thinking that none of these would have it pass the 6128 memory test that some stuff does by testing the rom version - if I'm not talking bollocks?

Welcome 


Pimp the 464  , its definitely worth it. Once properly setup, you'll find it capable of running 95%+ of all software out there.

Yes, some software does check specifically for a 6128, but they're far and few between. And most simply check for the additional ram, which is relatively easy to fix. Demos are the biggest culprit, as most seem to be aimed at the 6128.

For the ram expansion, I'd recommend one of these for a 464. Details are in the thread. Very versatile.

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/wanted-working-memory-expansion-for-cpc-464/

The rest of the hardware depends upon which route you want to take. Prefer to use original floppy disks / disk drives / hardware ??, or happy to run a WiFi / mass storage solution??

I run the first option. Original disk drives ( Fd-1) and a physical rom expansion board. I use a serial interface to download software to the physical discs. I find this the best of both worlds, I can still use the original hardware, but also download anything I want.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,
Rob

[Velociraptor]

Yeah I'm going to do it 260Z.


It arrived tonight of all times, I've had a quick look and it's a bit dirty and dusty, the tape counter looks as if it's been bashed and doesn't work. There's a few scratches. It's a 2D revision board which I'm sure I'll find out later if that's good or bad.


It's going back in the box until I've moved house though and then I'll get to work on it. Doing a search here shows that the 1 single capacitor doesn't need replaced. Having read what Bryce said about it then it makes sense, there's no internal PSU in the 464 so those kind of capacitors are the ones that fail. That means it's just a clean of the plastics, which does mean stripping it down. And a replacement of both rubber bands.


I'll need to look into plastic polishing to see what can be done about restoring the tape window.


The job between now and moving house so that I have the space to deal with it is to work out how to pimp it out. It looks like I might have some soldering work to do building stuff which sounds great. So I'll need to work out what I'm going to get for it to bring it up to spec.


I'll also keep an eye out for a DDI-1 on ebay, but I realise I don't absolutely have to have it.


One thing I looked at is an MP-1, but I can't really see a good way to use that. Instead I'll get a SCART and PSU combo thing, and I'll plug it into a 28 inch TV I picked up 2nd hand today.

[Velociraptor]

So the 464 is here, the SCART/PSU setup is here and so is the TV. I even got hold of a tape game.


Sadly the 464 doesn't work. I get a red power LED but nothing else. No FF/REW on the tape deck (or any noise if the belt has gone)


Having a search around the forums etc I should be checking inside with a multimeter to see if I can read voltages. I might want to get a replacement Z80 as well. I should also check all the chips are seated well, and go around the board slowly and carefully looking for damage.


Anything else I should be doing to try and suss out the problem?

[LambdaMikel]

When I get a very messy and dirty PCB / motherboard, I just try to remove as many chips as possible (if socketed), and then I take it to the shower stall with a soft brush, some liquid soap and give it a good rinsedown with warm water. After that, I use the hair dryer and compressed air. Next, I'll also use iso and fine sandpaper for the expansion port and such.

[Bryce]

When I get a very messy and dirty PCB / motherboard, I just try to remove as many chips as possible (if socketed), and then I take it to the shower stall with a soft brush, some liquid soap and give it a good rinsedown with warm water. After that, I use the hair dryer and compressed air. Next, I'll also use iso and fine sandpaper for the expansion port and such.

Cleaning can be done afterwards, let's get it working first
@Velociraptor: You're on the right track, check the voltages first and check that the tape deck is actually connected to the main board. I wouldn't go buying any components just yet.

Bryce.

[Velociraptor]

I've actually created a new topic about it since I thought it might be confusing in the middle of this thread so I'll reply to you over there @Bryce 

[Velociraptor]

I did fail to win a DDI-1 on auction. They seem to be particularly expensive, and this one came with some 3"s.


Eventually I'll get one I'm sure, at least so long as I'm still interested I will eventually. I should be patient which I'm terrible at! Are there any other places that people buy and sell other than eBay?

[260Z]

This popped up this morning 


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153575020557