Author Topic: AMSDAP - Amstrad MSx aDAPter - connecting any MSX I/O hardware to the CPC  (Read 7377 times)

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Offline Prodatron

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The MSX to CPC adapter, which I mentioned here...
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/msx-to-cpc-io-hardware-adapter/
...finally became reality thanks to TMT Logic ( http://www.tmtlogic.com )!
It's now called AMSDAP - Amstrad MSx aDAPter - and is able to connect any MSX I/O based hardware to the CPC.
Today I received an alpha version of the adapter and made some first tests with the SE-ONE, a hardware by TMT LOGIC which is able to play MP3s (compatible to the Sunrise MP3MSX card from 2007) and FM Radio via a real antenna.

Here is a short video about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvlGBS3nNiY
« Last Edit: 22:32, 11 October 17 by Prodatron »

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Offline khaz

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What is this sorcery?

Offline Prodatron

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What is this sorcery?
The sorcerer who build it? He is dutch :) They probably have a lot of sorcerer and druids there :P

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Offline khaz

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I was reading your other thread and the memory mapping problem. Can some future hardware, carefully memory mapped, work on both systems? Are there limitations?

Offline Prodatron

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The MSX has a quite brilliant memory slot system which is very specific and based on memory mapping and a clever ROM-system for plug'n'play for external hardware. No idea if it's possibe to implement it for the CPC, but I am not hardware guy.
But this is only for mass storage devices (mainly), not for the other types of hardware.

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Offline Prodatron

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First MSX hardware has been tested very successfully with AMSDAP, for more information have a look here.

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Offline XeNoMoRPH

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Amazing Hardware  :o :o :o

Offline Bryce

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Hmmmm, could I connect my Sony HBD-50 floppy controller to it? :)

Bryce.

Offline Ygdrazil

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Indeed another amazing achievement!

It's hard to keep up with all the hardware goodies surfacing for the CPC lately!

/ygdrazil

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Offline Prodatron

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Yesterday I connected an original Graphics9000 graphic card to the CPC via the AMSDAP for the first time, and today I was able to run the first tests of the SymbOS low level graphic driver.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]
(the left monitor is showing the output of the G9K, which is the black catridge (currently MSX catridges have to be inserted into the AMSDAP prototyp in the reverse way)

The first simple ones are working so far. It is just to prove, that this third hardware is working fine with AMSDAP and the CPC, too. More complex tests will follow.
« Last Edit: 18:20, 16 October 17 by Prodatron »

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Offline Edoz(MSX)

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WoW  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Soon we have 16 colors on the CPC in SymbOS back again! :D :D

Offline Munchausen

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Can you use the CPC powergraph board from tecnobytes at the same time as this adapter?

Offline Prodatron

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Can you use the CPC powergraph board from tecnobytes at the same time as this adapter?
Yes, it can be used at the same time. The AMSDAP is not much more like the normal CPC expansion bus with swapped pins and additional fixes and modifications (like the sound output connector).
We decided to move the port range now completely to #FFxx, so all MSX I/O devices (which are always 8bit -> #00-#FF) will be mapped to #FF00-#FFFF.
Tecnobytes took this port range for their CPC V9990 powergraph as well, it will now be accessible via ports #FF60-#FF67, that means, it will be fully compatible to an existing MSX V9990 Graphic9000 cards connected via AMSDAP.

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Offline GUNHED

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We decided to move the port range now completely to #FFxx, so all MSX I/O devices (which are always 8bit -> #00-#FF) will be mapped to #FF00-#FFFF.


That is of course a problem for users of the CPC(Mini)-Booster(+) or the ECB adapter (ok, nobody cares about this one). It would be great to use "free" ports. It would be really great if you could split the ports to &FDxx and &FFxx as you proposed before, because SF2 and CPCB leave enough room. Maybe &FD80...FF and &FF80...FF. That would make the amsdap compatible :-)
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Offline Prodatron

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There are several reasons for this decission:
- software accessing the hardware will run on both the CPC and the MSX, if 16bit ports are used; the MSX just ignores the upper 8bits, so if you OUT something to #FFxx, it's fine for both machines (CPC will see #FFxx, MSX will see #xx); that adds another level of platform independency, now not only for software, but even for hardware; if you shift parts of the port ranges this wouldn't be possible
- TBH: Who is using the CPC Booster (original, mini, plus, whatever...) today, when everyone is now owning Dukes' M4Board? With the availability of the M4Board it is more or less needless
- if you really still need it (maybe your software doesn't run with the M4Board?), just do it and take care not to connect MSX hardware, which could cause a conflict; Moonsound and Graphics9000 will still work fine together with the old Booster
- and of course: Keep it simple ;) no additional CPLD is required for AMSDAP

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Offline keith56

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Sounds logical to me, sacrificing a bit of compatibility with other add-ons for easier and more compatible software support - especially when this isn't just one add on, but a bridge to a wide range of add-ons.

so this supports the MSX V9990 on the CPC? that's a big plus for people with both platforms - one less thing to buy!

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Offline Prodatron

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so this supports the MSX V9990 on the CPC? that's a big plus for people with both platforms - one less thing to buy!
Yes, the Graphics9000 (V9990 for the MSX) is fully working on my CPC with the AMSDAP so far!

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Offline GUNHED

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About Software compatibility... well, just change one port in the source code. You can use an IF CPC / IF MSX construction even in Maxam.


The Booster is a great piece of hardware, and M4 has no extra CPU, no DAC, no AD WAV making thing and no RS485 local area network (independent of the PC or internet).


I'm sure that AMSDAP is a great innovation, but why sacrificing hardware compatibility for no reason?


Maybe you guys can sleep over and think about it again. Would be nice.  :) :) :)
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Offline Prodatron

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The Booster is a great piece of hardware
Its relevant software (Arkos ROM pack) was in general only using the RS232 part, with which you could transfer files and data between the CPC and a PC. That's the reason why the Booster isn't needed anymore since the M4Board. An RS232 interface is exotic today for modern PCs/Notebooks/etc. anyway.

and M4 has [...] no RS485 local area network (independent of the PC or internet).
Do you really think, that people want an RS485 local area network today?

Maybe you guys can sleep over and think about it again.
No thanks, instead of sleeping we are more focused on improving things and developing new stuff.

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Offline CraigsBar

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One of these, I need!

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Offline AxelStone

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Really impressive the hardware devices launched for CPC: M4, this one... We are reaching a really high level in hardware!


Moreover, MSX and CPC are my 2 favourites system, I would be glad to get them "connected"  :) :)


Good luck, really!

Offline Joseman

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There are several reasons for this decission:
- software accessing the hardware will run on both the CPC and the MSX, if 16bit ports are used; the MSX just ignores the upper 8bits, so if you OUT something to #FFxx, it's fine for both machines (CPC will see #FFxx, MSX will see #xx); that adds another level of platform independency, now not only for software, but even for hardware; if you shift parts of the port ranges this wouldn't be possible

Totally agree here, that AMSDAP use the "same" range ports on both machines is a HUGE way of simplify things!

keep the good work going @Prodatron (and all the people involved!)

P.D. if AMSDAP makes the Graphics9000 work, is there still need for a dedicated CPC board? (i paid for one!), maybe is a little slower with the adaptor?


Offline keith56

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Totally agree here, that AMSDAP use the "same" range ports on both machines is a HUGE way of simplify things!

keep the good work going @Prodatron (and all the people involved!)

P.D. if AMSDAP makes the Graphics9000 work, is there still need for a dedicated CPC board? (i paid for one!), maybe is a little slower with the adaptor?

The biggest challenge I'm facing with porting my game to the other systems is the differing graphics system on the CPC vs MSX vs ZX spectrum

The MSX, CPC, and 128k Speccy all have the same sound chip, and the DiskIO and the other system differences are pretty trivial - having this thing available on the CPC+MSX is going to really encourage MSX developers to consider extending support to the CPC

As I said before, if this was available for the speccy too, it would be absolutely awesome, but I understand the reasons mentioned why this is unlikely.
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Offline Prodatron

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P.D. if AMSDAP makes the Graphics9000 work, is there still need for a dedicated CPC board? (i paid for one!), maybe is a little slower with the adaptor?
It's not slower with the Adapter, it both will behave in exactly the same way. I also paid for the CPC version, but I don't think that was a bad decision, as prices are the same for the CPC and the MSX version of the V9990 Powergraph. If you only want the V9990, then the dedicated one would be already enough. But the adapter brings additional possibilities.

@keith56, I completely agree with you!
As I said before, if this was available for the speccy too, it would be absolutely awesome, but I understand the reasons mentioned why this is unlikely.
I am not experienced with the ZX Spectrum so much, but when having a quick look at the expansion bus...
https://faqwiki.zxnet.co.uk/wiki/ZX_Spectrum_edge_connector
...I don't see a reason, why such an MSX adapter shouldn't be possible for the Spectrum as well? I can ask TNT Logic, if they would be interested in such a project, too, but then they probably need help and support from a ZX Spectum expert :)

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Offline GUNHED

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Its relevant software (Arkos ROM pack) was in general only using the RS232 part, with which you could transfer files and data between the CPC and a PC. That's the reason why the Booster isn't needed anymore since the M4Board. An RS232 interface is exotic today for modern PCs/Notebooks/etc. anyway.
Do you really think, that people want an RS485 local area network today?
No thanks, instead of sleeping we are more focused on improving things and developing new stuff.

Haha, no, I meant to think over it (not to sleep over it). I know that you never sleep and your recent (last couple of years!) output is just absolutely amazing. My congratulation here for constant amazing work for the CPC (and other Z80 systems too).

However, everybody uses hardware (the CPC Booster f.e.) in a different way. Just because one person is not using a feature it doesn't mean that others wouldn't use it.

IMHO the AMSDAP would be more interesting if it could be used with the Booster together, but it's your baby, do what you want.  :)

And if you want, you still can add a poll and ask people what they want (about the address range).  :)
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