CPCWiki forum

General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: spookspring on 12:26, 24 May 13

Title: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: spookspring on 12:26, 24 May 13
Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online in 2013 to a BBS with 1980's Tech

Update: Project Complete! Online with 464 and classic modem, no modern mods 26/5/13! (See below post)

Hi guys this is my current (futile?) project to get online to a BBS board with 1980s tech ALONE.

No cheats or addons or PC's. Is it possible? I have no reason to doubt that it isnt, if I get another
computer to talk the same language to me. Everything is connected and working fine, and others have had success.

I have collected over the last 2 years all the components from ebay and modified them: RS232 (modified
with 2 extra ROMs), 64k RAM (mod to 256k RAM). Nightingale Modem (300 or 1200 Baud). Parallel to 5 pin
domino lead (selfmade). Commstar - Honeyterm (ASCII) & Honeyview (Viewdata) browsers. 
I have a basic understanding of how all this works.

I have tested by calling various BBS dialups and BT. All I am getting is some garbled handshake on
300 Baud. The other BBS are Spectrum and Commodore orientated, which in theory should work, we
have similar language, but no success so far.

So if here is anyone out there who has a (secret) CPC server or knows of a Amstrad friendly website,
or anyone who might want to hook up 2 computers let me know! Distance no object.

Cheers, Spooks


(http://spookspring.com/Amstrad/online.jpg) (http://spookspring.com/Amstrad/online.jpg)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: Bryce on 13:06, 24 May 13
Cool idea. Unfortunately I don't have the hardware to connect up, but there are other BBS servers out there that might want to communicate with you.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: Munchausen on 13:12, 24 May 13
My first thought would be to use dial-up unix shell access from a terminal emulator on the CPC. These used to be widespread and free, often run by Universities. However after searching I can't find any still running (at least free and in the UK). With this you can then use command line programs on the unix machine, such as news readers, email, irc and web browsing, or even ssh to another machine.

I would say that you should at least test the serial setup by logging in to a unix/linux machine, or just a windows machine running hyperterminal, over the serial port. For a more basic test you can try bridging the transmit and receive pins (pins 2 and 3) of the RS232 connector with a wire. Then, when running a terminal emulator on the CPC (with handshaking turned off), you should see whatever you type coming back to you to be printed on the machine.

To test the modem as well you could set up another machine (a PC) with a modem attached to it, also running a terminal emulator, and connect them both to (seperate) telephone lines. Type "ATDT <telephone number>" on one machine to call the other, and when the call comes in on the other machine answer it by typing "ATA". You should then be able to type on one machine and see the output on the other. Of course for this you need two telephone lines. With various old mobile phones you could do this with a serial cable or serial infra red connection, and talk to the modem in the phone, but I'm not sure you can do it with newer phones. You can even probably connect two modems together directly, but I'm not exactly sure how to achieve that (I think you'd need to simulate a dial tone somehow).

If it was me I think I'd just attach the serial line to a linux box and use command line utilities from there. I'm afraid I don't know much about BBS, but you could run a BBS client on the machine I'm sure. I think you'll have more luck at 1200 baud than 300 though... 1200 seems to be a bare minimum for most dial ups that are still running today, but again I can't say about BBS.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: arnoldemu on 13:25, 24 May 13
In the past I and a friend managed it.
I think we used 1200 baud and XMODEM.

Perhaps 8-bit, parity, no stop bits, something like that..

Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: ralferoo on 15:02, 24 May 13
I'd quite like to have a go at some point as I've got an Amstrad serial board and I'm pretty sure I have a modem somewhere in my loft, but I'm almost certain that it won't work over my phones as my house is all VOIP nowadays. I've tried to get a fax working over that in the past and the modem won't connect even though it should in theory be able to negotiate down to prehistoric modem speeds...
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: MacDeath on 21:25, 24 May 13
I clicked on "like", still I would have prefered a 6128 anyway. :(
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: Gryzor on 09:22, 25 May 13
bbs.cpcwiki.eu? If only I could persuade the host to hook up a modem and phone line to the server rack...
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: spookspring on 18:48, 26 May 13
Guys! Woooho! I'm so excited! I am ONLINE with my Amstrad as specced above! This project is now complete! Thanks for the "technical advice" but I stuck to the classic mods... I had to use 300 Baud to connect to an Acorn 32 bit orientated Arcade site. That speed is STILL too fast and my 464 is not coping, so I need to do something to slow the incoming rate of text. Any ideas? I am ready for internet apocalypse! Cheers! james


(http://www.spookspring.com/Amstrad/onlinewithamstrad.jpg)


Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: ralferoo on 20:17, 26 May 13
Quote from: spookspring on 18:48, 26 May 13
That speed is STILL too fast and my 464 is not coping, so I need to do something to slow the incoming rate of text.
It's surprising that it can't manage 300 baud as that's less than 50 characters per second...

Also, I can only see one bit of corruption on your screen - "available" has become "avail`ble" which is 1 bit different.

Anyway, congratulations on your success!
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: MacDeath on 20:58, 26 May 13
So now the only one real interesting question...


Where are the porn sites?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Badstarr on 21:34, 26 May 13
Have you tried looking to see if you can connect to Hackaday.com retro site? I'm not sure of all the details but I do know that they encourage people to access the site with retro hardware and they usually do a feature on their site about the latest machine to be added to the list of visitors with a bit about the machine and how the task was achieved. Might be of interest to you. Nice work by the way!
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech
Post by: arnoldemu on 09:15, 28 May 13
nice.

text is 99% fine, it could be the terminal emulation.

rest of the text is clean. It looks like it wants to use some terminal control codes???

Any ideas what it looks like on a risc os machine???

do you know which terminal emulation is being used on the cpc?? vt100??

EDIT: So which protocols and which communication configuration (stop bits, number of data bits, parity) did you use for the working connection???
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: spookspring on 13:38, 28 May 13
Sorted out the garbling, just needed to align the plug in correctly.


I have not used any mods or changed the modem settings, its a simple
TTY screen display at 300 RX=TX Baud with 0 Parity, 8 Data Bits, 1 Stop Bit, Soft Handshake.


Ive looked at more of the site and its quite comprehensive and up to date, and could keep
me entertained for an hour a night. In an emergency or if I had to loose the internet this could be
a useful replacement.  If there is no Amstrad BB I will add a thread there. Surprised you guys are
not using a BBS on a CPC!


Positive Thoughts:
Negative Thoughts:
Therefore, all you would need to do in theory to get a CPC online is build or buy an RS232,
download Honeyterm and use from a disc drive/RAM, and buy an old modem for about a £1
Chiz Spooks
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: dcdrac on 19:03, 28 May 13
I have a Nightingale...wow that takes me back
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: TCMSLP on 03:28, 07 August 13


Sorry to revive an older thread but ... I'm amazed dial up BBSs still exist!   


I thought all such BBSs either migrated to telnet or closed altogether.



Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:08, 28 October 13
Which one did you dial?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: radu14m on 20:32, 28 October 13
this projekt is amazing :)


im alsoamazed that dial up BBSs still exist...i tought they were long dead.
[/size]
[/size]What s the status of this project ?
[/size]
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: redbox on 23:52, 28 October 13
Quote from: Gryzor on 19:08, 28 October 13
Which one did you dial?

It's Arcade BBS (http://arcade.demon.co.uk/) which is still available on +44 20 8654 2212.  It's run on RISC OS.

Interestingly, I saw a way recently of getting a Raspberry Pi to act as a Hayes modem... So in theory you could use a serial port on the CPC (such as a MiniBooster (http://www.centpourcent.net/4/post/2013/08/minibooster.html)), connect it via USB to the Pi and have TCP/IP run over it (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/cpcip-reworked-onto-a-rom/) and voila, a CPC that is truly on the internet  :D
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: MacDeath on 22:03, 30 October 13
Is this similar to this video ?


Guide to Getting Online with an Amstrad CPC 464 (from 1984) in 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WPMq80wYFY#ws)


QuotePositive Thoughts:
I get free email when I register - I can send emails from my 464!
I get free phonecalls on weekends - free (BBS) internet
I wont get any viruses with a CPC...I think - downloads might have hacks? just delete!
yeay, and not even sure NSA can monitor those...

QuoteNegative Thoughts:
No Graphics - but I dont need fancy banner ads!
No Amstrad friendly games? - cant access game section yet
Interminable Patience needed
Probably the last BBS in the UK - how long will the guys stay hooked up?!
For the graphics, you have ASCII art I guess...
Also wouldn't it be better with more RAM expansion ? or it this still limited ?
Perhaps a PCW would be better to surf the web than a CPC464, but peripherals may be harder to find (or not ?)

also can we get something slightly more...graphical ?
Bulletin boards/image board a bit more like 4chan, with possibility for some graphical characters ?



Is the 50 characters per second limitation due to the old design of the peripherals (modem, serial and so on) or the Amstrad itself ? or the "servers" used ?


Is the +64K used ? what leaves as few RAM available then ?


What a modern re-enactment of those peripheral specs would be like ?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Gryzor on 21:37, 19 November 13
Ah damn, I'm not calling another country. I (my parents, that is) paid enough back in the day :D
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: IanHUghes on 15:17, 04 December 13
I was really stoked to see this.  I got online back in the day with my CPC464 and a Cirkit Modem Setup, with voice syntehsiser which was brill.  I used to dial into BBS such as RCPM Beconsfield and OBBS Sheffield.  I think I will try and get back on line with my CPC6128 so would yo umind if i message you  from time to time to touch base and get advice??

Big challenge for me is getting a modem and software will work, so any advice greatly welcomed. 

Anyway, brill little project - thanks for sharing!


Quote from: spookspring on 12:26, 24 May 13
Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online in 2013 to a BBS with 1980's Tech

Update: Project Complete! Online with 464 and classic modem, no modern mods 26/5/13! (See below post)

Hi guys this is my current (futile?) project to get online to a BBS board with 1980s tech ALONE.

No cheats or addons or PC's. Is it possible? I have no reason to doubt that it isnt, if I get another
computer to talk the same language to me. Everything is connected and working fine, and others have had success.

I have collected over the last 2 years all the components from ebay and modified them: RS232 (modified
with 2 extra ROMs), 64k RAM (mod to 256k RAM). Nightingale Modem (300 or 1200 Baud). Parallel to 5 pin
domino lead (selfmade). Commstar - Honeyterm (ASCII) & Honeyview (Viewdata) browsers. 
I have a basic understanding of how all this works.

I have tested by calling various BBS dialups and BT. All I am getting is some garbled handshake on
300 Baud. The other BBS are Spectrum and Commodore orientated, which in theory should work, we
have similar language, but no success so far.

So if here is anyone out there who has a (secret) CPC server or knows of a Amstrad friendly website,
or anyone who might want to hook up 2 computers let me know! Distance no object.

Cheers, Spooks


(http://spookspring.com/Amstrad/online.jpg) (http://spookspring.com/Amstrad/online.jpg)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 16:46, 11 March 18
Hey if anyone can test my new Amstrad BBS on their CPC it would be really appreciated. I've still a lot to do and it is early days yet but any help is really appreciated.

At the moment it is 80 column screen width and full Ansi, this is fine on some other Amstrads using DOS or Windows etc but nut sure about CPC based (or CP/M) terminal clients. I'll get round to more testing myself hopefully soon but it would be great to get a few more CPC users telnetting in! Also if anyone with experience wants to help and be a Sysop?

This is the website with more info:

https://amstrad.simulant.uk (https://amstrad.simulant.uk)

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Gryzor on 17:40, 11 March 18
That's lovely, but what are the credentials to log in?


Also, only ssh seems to work for me, trying to telnet just ends with a closed connection...
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: robcfg on 18:35, 11 March 18
Welcome!


I've tried to connect too, but I can only connect like Gryzor through SSH, and then I cannot login as Guest, nor guest...


Here's what I tried, in case I did something wrong:
ssh -p 6128 Guest@amstrad.simulant.uk
telnet -l Guest amstrad.simulant.uk 464
rlogin -l Guest amstrad.simulant.uk
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 07:42, 12 March 18
Quote from: robcfg on 18:35, 11 March 18
Welcome!


I've tried to connect too, but I can only connect like Gryzor through SSH, and then I cannot login as Guest, nor guest...


Here's what I tried, in case I did something wrong:
ssh -p 6128 Guest@amstrad.simulant.uk
telnet -l Guest amstrad.simulant.uk 464
rlogin -l Guest amstrad.simulant.uk


Hey thanks for trying! I've had a few users login and register accounts, but they may be connecting from PCs. Can you *not* specify a username, as then in should just sign you up for an account on login or ask if you want to view as "guest".

So just "telnet amstrad.simulant.uk 464" should do it...

I hope you can get in!! :)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 08:01, 12 March 18
Also has anyone checked out these ANSI terminals for better "graphics" and faster baud/character comms rates!

http://ewen.mcneill.gen.nz/programs/cpc/ansiterm/ (http://ewen.mcneill.gen.nz/programs/cpc/ansiterm/)

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Bbs_terminal (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Bbs_terminal)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: robcfg on 10:51, 12 March 18
QuoteHey thanks for trying! I've had a few users login and register accounts, but they may be connecting from PCs. Can you *not* specify a username, as then in should just sign you up for an account on login or ask if you want to view as "guest".


So just "telnet amstrad.simulant.uk 464" should do it...


I hope you can get in!! :)


Nop. It refuses my connection. I'm trying to connect from my MacBook Pro, but that shouldn't be the problem.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: rpalmer on 13:00, 12 March 18
I think most web sites now days do not allow telnet as there was a security issue (if i remember about 3-4 years ago).

I would ping the web site first to see if it responds meaning it is available otherwise the web site is no longer there.

If pings says the web site is there and the telnet request fails then that web site may have telnet disabled.

rpalmer
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 14:39, 12 March 18
Quote from: robcfg on 10:51, 12 March 18

Nop. It refuses my connection. I'm trying to connect from my MacBook Pro, but that shouldn't be the problem.

Hi thanks this is why more testing is needed before we are ready!! I've restarted the BBS as it may just be our firewall blocking your IP if you can try again?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 14:49, 12 March 18
Quote from: rpalmer on 13:00, 12 March 18
I think most web sites now days do not allow telnet as there was a security issue (if i remember about 3-4 years ago).

I would ping the web site first to see if it responds meaning it is available otherwise the web site is no longer there.

If pings says the web site is there and the telnet request fails then that web site may have telnet disabled.

rpalmer

Hi you're right that telnet isn't encrypted so it is not as secure. That is why I've also setup ssh too (and rlogin to boot just cos!! haha) but yes it should be working as I've telnetted in from a few wifi cafes and things like that while testing.

The url is both for the website and for the BBS, but http/https use different ports, so they are nothing to do with the actual BBS telnet connection on port 464. This isn't blocked or restricted, other than that our server firewall may block an ip if it looks suspicious or tries to get access too much with different usernames or wrong credentials etc.

I think we're just having a few firewall issues currently blocking some IPs or repeated attempts - so I'll look at this and hopefully get it resolved asap. But you *can* telnet in (at least after I reboot the BBS server fresh again) and it should work. I've left telnet there as an option despite lack of encryption just as it is the "original" way to access BBSes and is still safe enough to connect with just to take a look around as a guest, or if you're stuck on older retro hardware that can't ssh in - at least you can then still get access.

Let's hope with a bit more testing and more users connecting I can narrow down the problems and get any connection issues fixed! I'm hoping the BBS will allow us all to use our old Amstrads for stuff like email and upload/downloading files directly to the internet which is pretty cool :)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: qbert on 16:45, 16 March 18
tried telnet and it works like a charm.
I just have some trouble with extended chars whereas I'm using a cygwin term.


see attachment...



Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 21:55, 17 March 18
Quote from: qbert on 16:45, 16 March 18
tried telnet and it works like a charm.
I just have some trouble with extended chars whereas I'm using a cygwin term.


see attachment...

Hey thanks for testing it out! That is completely awesome that you were able to telnet in ok.  Let's talk about CPCs!! haha. For your extended characters you can try disabling ANSI by pressing D on the main menu, followed by T to set your terminal display type on the BBS. Best of luck and let me know how things go or if I need to adjust anything my end :)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:19, 18 March 18
Maybe it'd be fun to incorporate it into a page somewhere on the wiki? :)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 15:10, 18 March 18
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:19, 18 March 18
Maybe it'd be fun to incorporate it into a page somewhere on the wiki? :)

Hey that would be an awesome idea. Is there anyway to embed this link into the wiki so it shows up correctly and lets users connect:

http://embed.ftelnet.ca/?Hostname=amstrad.simulant.uk&Port=464&Proxy=proxy-us-ga.ftelnet.ca&ProxyPort=1123&ProxyPortSecure=11235&AutoConnect=false&ConnectionType=telnet&Emulation=ansi-bbs&TopButtons=true&VirtualKeyboard=on

:)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Gryzor on 17:12, 21 April 18
Unfortunately, for security reasons, Mediawiki (the platform behind the wiki) won't let you load/run pages with code. But we could have a totally separate page perhaps?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Flonky_Tash on 16:53, 23 April 18
Managed to connect successfully via telnet as guest using the iterminal app on my phone.


One of my pending home projects is to turn my cpc into a linux terminal using rs232 and then connect through one of my linux machines.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: VincentGR on 17:00, 23 April 18
Quote from: Flonky_Tash on 16:53, 23 April 18
One of my pending home projects is to turn my cpc into a linux terminal using rs232 and then connect through one of my linux machines.


I did that with M4WiFi and Duke's client.
Connected successfully to all my PC's, RPis even on my Amiga.
The only thing you don't get is to run programs as it doesn't support the output.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: simulant on 11:19, 15 May 18
Quote from: VincentGR on 17:00, 23 April 18

I did that with M4WiFi and Duke's client.
Connected successfully to all my PC's, RPis even on my Amiga.
The only thing you don't get is to run programs as it doesn't support the output.
Do you know where Duke's telnet client is available for download? It no longer seems to be on Github or in the old forum links, I wonder if he stopped development or no longer supports it?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Scautura on 11:26, 15 May 18
You should be able to grab it from this post: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/telnet-client-for-cpc/msg157981/#msg157981


I just checked to be sure it was still hosted on spinpoint.org, and it worked fine for me. It's also directly attached to that post so you can grab it there.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: VincentGR on 15:55, 15 May 18
Quote from: simulant on 11:19, 15 May 18
Do you know where Duke's telnet client is available for download? It no longer seems to be on Github or in the old forum links, I wonder if he stopped development or no longer supports it?


Yeap, if you didn't got it already please tell again so I can upload it for you.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC Project - Getting Online to BBS with 1980's Tech - Complete!
Post by: Duke on 18:42, 15 May 18
Quote from: simulant on 11:19, 15 May 18
Do you know where Duke's telnet client is available for download? It no longer seems to be on Github or in the old forum links, I wonder if he stopped development or no longer supports it?
It's still in the thread with the telnet client. I haven't uploaded the source code for the client yet as I wanted to clean it up & fix some stuff first. But if someone is eager to improve on it, pm me and I'll send the source code. Got caught up with a M7 project, cant let go atm :)
Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod