Confusion around external 3.5" drive on 6128

[Jckf]

Hello, guys. I recently got my hands on a 6128, and have been spending every day since reading your forum and wiki Yesterday I added an external 3.5" disc drive, to be able to transfer disc images from a more modern computer. It more or less works, but I have some issues with the setup, and was wondering if someone here could help resolve them.

   
• Both drives spin up at the same time. Can the motors not be controlled separately?
• Disc Kit prompts me to remove discs from both drives, even when no discs are inserted. Removing the bridge between pins 33 and 34 on the B drive's cable makes it prompt for removal of the B drive's disc. This means that no matter what I do, the machine always thinks there's a disc in at least one of the drives, and hence a reboot is the only way to exit Disc Kit after a copy. Can this be fixed?

[CraigsBar]

Hello, guys. I recently got my hands on a 6128, and have been spending every day since reading your forum and wiki Yesterday I added an external 3.5" disc drive, to be able to transfer disc images from a more modern computer. It more or less works, but I have some issues with the setup, and was wondering if someone here could help resolve them.

   
• Both drives spin up at the same time. Can the motors not be controlled separately?
• Disc Kit prompts me to remove discs from both drives, even when no discs are inserted. Removing the bridge between pins 33 and 34 on the B drive's cable makes it prompt for removal of the B drive's disc. This means that no matter what I do, the machine always thinks there's a disc in at least one of the drives, and hence a reboot is the only way to exit Disc Kit after a copy. Can this be fixed?

Hi Jckf, and welcome to the forum. Both drive motors always work together on Cpc machines this is normal and does not cause any damage or additional wear on the drives as the drive heads only move on the drive selected.

As for the DiscKit thing all I can suggest is don't use it! Disckit is vile, and the pcw version is equally bad! If you have a choice install Parados in Rom slot 7, either internally or in an external Rom board or flash device. This will give you all the formatting, file copy and verification tools you could ever wish for.

I guess the cause of the message however is that, as your drive stands, it does not provide a proper 'ready' signal. Not many modern drives do, but some can be modified with jumpers or solder bridges to behave in a more 8bit friendly way (the Samsung 321b for example can easily be made fully 8bit happy) if you can let us know the make and model of the drive you are using we may be able to help you out with it. [emoji4]

Craig 

[Jckf]

I don't have access to any hardware that would allow me to install ParaDOS, sadly


The drive is a Mitsumi d353m3d-5000. As far as I can tell, it cannot provide a proper ready signal, although it seems some people have successfully used the "in use" signal instead.

[opqa]

.The need to reset the machine to exit from programs is not unsual anyway in the Amstrad. In order to tansfer DSK's to 3" discs from the 3.5" drive I suggest you to use WriteDSK, unlike other copying tools this one can write almost any image, including most protections.

[CraigsBar]

.The need to reset the machine to exit from programs is not unsual anyway in the Amstrad. In order to tansfer DSK's to 3" discs from the 3.5" drive I suggest you to use WriteDSK, unlike other copying tools this one can write almost any image, including most protections.

IMHO writedsk is antique! Samdisk and cpcdiskxp are vastly superior when it comes to protected images.

[Jckf]

My idea was to copy from a PC to a 3.5" floppy, then from the 3.5" to a 3" on the CPC. If Disc Kit cannot do that, then finding a good replacement would be the first step. I'd like to make the CPC know when a disc is inserted or not first though, as it currently gets confused like I said in the first post.

[CPC_Fan]

Hi and welcome to the forum Jckf. I brought a cheap second hand pc to do exactly the same thing as you are trying to do. I use CPCdiskXP on a pc, to copy .dsk images to a 3.5" floppy, as CraigsBar has already suggested.

[CraigsBar]

My idea was to copy from a PC to a 3.5" floppy, then from the 3.5" to a 3" on the CPC. If Disc Kit cannot do that, then finding a good replacement would be the first step. I'd like to make the CPC know when a disc is inserted or not first though, as it currently gets confused like I said in the first post.

DiscKit will certainly not copy any protected discs. Grab a copy of Xexor - I have found it is by far the best disc copier.


Craig

[opqa]

IMHO writedsk is antique! Samdisk and cpcdiskxp are vastly superior when it comes to protected images.

What are you talking about? Samdisk and CPCdiskXP are good if you have a spare 3" drive unit conneced to a PC, otherwise they are completely useless to write a DSK image to a 3" disk. Besides this, WriteDSK is not antique at all! It was written for the CPCBooster but it also can read files directly from FAT12 3,5" formatted discs, making the transfer process really convenient, as you only have to copy the .dsk file to the disk in the PC in a regular way. And also it handles nearly any protection that can be written to 3"discs without additional hardware modifications. Ypu must have confused it with another one.

My idea was to copy from a PC to a 3.5" floppy, then from the 3.5" to a 3" on the CPC. If Disc Kit cannot do that, then finding a good replacement would be the first step. I'd like to make the CPC know when a disc is inserted or not first though, as it currently gets confused like I said in the first post.

This kind of problems are normal when your unit doesn't have a ready signal, you also may have noticed that AMSDOS hangs when you swich from |A to |B or vice-versa and there is no disc in the destination unit. I don't know if DiscKit can work without such ready signal, but in case it can't, forget about it and give a try do WriteDSK, it is the by far your best option.

[CraigsBar]

What are you talking about? Samdisk and CPCdiskXP are good if you have a spare 3" drive unit conneced to a PC, otherwise they are completely useless to write a DSK image to a 3" disk. Besides this, WriteDSK is not antique at all! It was written for the CPCBooster but it also can read files directly from FAT12 3,5" formatted discs, making the transfer process really convenient, as you only have to copy the .dsk file to the disk in the PC in a regular way. And also it handles nearly any protection that can be written to 3"discs without additional hardware modifications. Ypu must have confused it with another one.This kind of problems are normal when your unit doesn't have a ready signal, you also may have noticed that AMSDOS hangs when you swich from |A to |B or vice-versa and there is no disc in the destination unit. I don't know if DiscKit can work without such ready signal, but in case it can't, forget about it and give a try do WriteDSK, it is the by far your best option.

Oh, *that* WriteDSK , the arkos one. I thought you meant the dos utility. Since many people have 3.5 inch drives on their beloved cpc's these days I was assuming writing the image to a 3.5 inch disc and xexor copying the disk to a 3 inch drive if needed.

The an abba switch saves the need to copy to a 3inch disc at all.

[Jckf]

The only reason I want to copy over to 3" is because I have twenty of them, but only two 3.5" discs. Have ordered some more though.

[CraigsBar]

I ordered 50 brand new 720k from these guys....

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=290832820885&alt=web

...They are maxell discs and work perfectly.

[Jckf]

This is how I did my external drive.



CPC 6128 external 3.5" drive - YouTube


It fit perfectly in an old harddrive enclosure, and is powered via a molex connector soldered to the CPC motherboard. I had initially wanted to power it through the data cable, but right now I also need compatibility with regular PC's, so maybe at a later point in time.

[TFM]

Usually after switching on the LED of drive A is off and the LED of drive B is constantly on. Different in your case...


But good to see in works. 

[CraigsBar]

This is how I did my external drive.



CPC 6128 external 3.5" drive - YouTube


It fit perfectly in an old harddrive enclosure, and is powered via a molex connector soldered to the CPC motherboard. I had initially wanted to power it through the data cable, but right now I also need compatibility with regular PC's, so maybe at a later point in time.

That's looking good. One Question... How did you cut the hole in the drive case it looks really well done and nice and neat I am not sure I'd trust myself to cut it straight, my dremel skill are lacking unfortunately (See the nasty wonky cutting of the Drive Connector hole in my 464plus picture, but at least that's at the back LOL)

[Bryce]

Hi and welcome Jckf,
      I'd just check which other floppy would fit that is easy to convert to ready. You'll get one very cheap on ebay and then you can use whatever software you want.

Bryce.

[Jckf]

That's looking good. One Question... How did you cut the hole in the drive case it looks really well done and nice and neat I am not sure I'd trust myself to cut it straight, my dremel skill are lacking unfortunately (See the nasty wonky cutting of the Drive Connector hole in my 464plus picture, but at least that's at the back LOL)

I haven't cut in the case at all. It comes with a front that I simply removed, but the rubber bumper on the end has a hole that fits the drive perfectly inside.






EDIT: The case looks like this when new:

[CraigsBar]

That is a seriously good mod. Even Cpc grey.

[Jckf]

Pure luck The next thing to do would be to paint the drive front black, and swap out the green LED with a red one. Holding off on that until I can get another drive, in case the other one has better compatibility that this one.

[CraigsBar]

I wonder if one of these would work with the Cpc

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/designs/Floppy_Adaptor_V2/floppy_adaptor_v2.html

As the Amiga also needs a proper ready signal and that board seems to suggest it can create one.

[Bryce]

Pure luck The next thing to do would be to paint the drive front black, and swap out the green LED with a red one. Holding off on that until I can get another drive, in case the other one has better compatibility that this one.

Or just get a black drive that's convertable?

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

Or just get a black drive that's convertable?

Bryce.

If that Amiga pcb I referenced above works, then in theory any pc compatible 3.5 inch drive should be Cpc friendly.

[Bryce]

I think you'd need to change that adapter slightly as the pinout is different on the Amiga.

The Mitsumi 359M3D is relatively easy to convert Ready and DS signal and you can get them cheaply in dark grey:
MITSUMI D359M3D +++ 3,5" Floppy Diskettenlaufwerk +++ dunkelgrau | eBay

This Samsung should be an easy conversion too (and it's a 5V device!):
Diskettenlaufwerk 3,5" , Samsung | eBay

Bryce.

[Jckf]

The drive I'm using is also 5v

[CraigsBar]

Yep I have Samsung 321b drives they are really easy to convert. And are definately the drives to go for.