Author Topic: [SOLVED] Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format  (Read 5959 times)

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Offline kribjo

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Hi,


I have tried several disccopy programs to copy my physical disks to HFE format on the sd-card of my HxC.
The standard CP/M copydisc always fail at track 5 of the HFE disk. This made me believe that there was problems with the empty virtual HFE disks I put on the sd-card.
But then I tried copy with Diskmaster 1.0 (1986) from Draysoft and I successfully managed to copy side A on one disc. A slow process, but it's working. :-)


  • What are others using to copy physical disks to virtual disks?
  • I have created my blank virtual disks with CPCDiskXP v2.3 and then converted to HFE using HxCFloppyEmulator 1.6.11.16. They are all double sided and are both data and system disks. Do I need system disk? If the source is a system disk and destination is a data disk would not the disk copy make the destination a system disk?
  • I have been thinking of if I maybe should use virtual single side disk images so that when copying a physical disk I would have two HFE files on the sd-card, one for each side (A/B) of the physical disk, but I'm not sure whether or not this is a good idea. Please advice.
  • I have observed that a HFE image is 981KB of size (in WinXP) even if converted from a 191KB (in WinXP) single side disk image or 381KB (in WinXP) double side disk image. Is this correct?
UPDATE, but still questions:


Diskmaster did copy some disks, but the Elite disk when run in WinAPE gave me this message. So a better alternative to Diskmaster would be nice. I'm aware of that most of my game disks can   be downloaded as DSK already, but it would be nice to have the save-files as well.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]


Also, when copying a disk with documents and programs I programmed my self (two sided disk), only side A of disk is showing in WinAPE. When I flip the disk I still get the contents of side A, although it should show side B. I have tried it three times, but with the same result. This is what I did:
  • Started Diskmaster from a physical floppy (as A:)
  • Selected Duplicate disk from A: to B:
  • Put in my physical disk side A with documents in A: and started copy it to HxC as B: (display showing side 0)
  • Changed to side B on physical floppy. Moved switch on HxC cable (display showing side 1) and started copy it to HxC as B:
Looking at the disk sectors using CPCDiskXP v2.3 altering between head 0 and 1 it's clear that all the files on side A (head 0) and side B (head 1) should be there. I feel like some times before that the error is between keyboard and chair. Why won't flipping disk in WinAPE show side B?

Thank you in advance for your answer(s).


Regards,


Bjørn
« Last Edit: 02:07, 14 January 13 by kribjo »

Offline xesrjb

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #1 on: 08:26, 06 January 13 »
I take |Disccopy under Utopia; no problems. But it run under CP/M too.

xesrjb
„The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true.“

Offline kribjo

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #2 on: 20:56, 06 January 13 »
Thank you for your reply xesrjb, but unforunately I don't have any ROM's. The only expansion I have is the HxC.


I have tried with copydisc which copy between A: and B: under CP/M. Diskcopy in CP/M uses A: both as the source and destination.


Sorry for the bad picture, but it shows the result of a copydisc where A: is the physical disc and B: is the HxC. It happens for every try I do with different disks (both physical and virtual). I have downloaded empty virtual disks, but same thing happen when using them.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

I have tried with disckit2 as well and it also fails.


Can someone please try wite a bare 664/6128 and a HxC and do a disccopy and if it works please tell me what software they used and any additional needed comments.


Regards,


Bjørn
« Last Edit: 21:50, 06 January 13 by kribjo »

Offline Cholo

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #3 on: 21:41, 07 January 13 »
I think the troubles isnt with your physical floppies and isnt with the copying programs either .. but with the HxC hardware itself. The HxC isnt a real floppy drive and once you have loaded a floppy image of a blank disc it "locks" to the format of the image.

So only in the case of you wanting to copy a floppy of the EXACT same format to an EXACT same blank HxC image will it succeed. Like trying to copy a CPM disc onto a DATA disc wint happen. Or copying a 41 track data disc onto a 39 track data disc wont happen either.

Good news is that if its just the files you need to copy you can manually copy single files from data>Cpm or cpm>data as long as the is space left.

So what to do with all those protected games that has out of bounds wierd tracks and gaps or simply old floppies with errors on them and whatnot?
Ive used Xexor a couple of times. Xexor basicly makes one large compressed disc-image of a entire disc. Aka the physical disc in Drive A: ends up as one large compressed "filename.arc" on the HxC B: drive.
Then on the pc i reverse the process in Winape .. when i use Xexor to restore from the .arc in one drive to a genuine blank disc (WinApe thankfully dont mind that the blank images gets formatted). Make sure to close/eject the resulting dsk before you move/copy it to make sure its completely transfered ;)

Quite a timeconsuming task though learning all the those settings and commands in Xexor though. As you may know both Xexor and WinApe was programmed by Richard Wilson so WinApe actually supports some kinda .arc format (but sadly not the format i get from the Xexor i have). Would be really sweet if it supported it though  ;)

Xexor Links:
http://www.winape.net/downloads.jsp
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&onglet=dsk&num=493

Offline kribjo

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #4 on: 02:00, 10 January 13 »
Thank you Cholo, for your feedback.


I was not aware of Xexor, and have tried it now. It seems that I still have problems with system formatted disks. Data disks are ok.


Creating blank system disks in CPCDiskXP v2.3 shows up in WinApe 2.0 Alpha 18 with 704KB free if I follow this procedure at least. But other times when mounting it shows the standard 169KB free. This is reproducable.


What I did to create disks.


I use CPCDiskXP V2.3 to create disks

* Image 001.png
(19.86 kB, 880x565 - viewed 665 times)



First, I create a CPC Data disk which should give 178KB free disk space.

* Image 002.png
(38.87 kB, 872x588 - viewed 652 times)



I save it with filename testdata.dsk.

* Image 003.png
(24.03 kB, 880x566 - viewed 635 times)



Then I create a CPC system disk which should give 169KB free disk space.

* Image 004.png
(39.33 kB, 881x582 - viewed 817 times)



I save it as testsys.dsk.

* Image 005.png
(13.4 kB, 566x336 - viewed 642 times)



Then I start WinApe to insert the two disks. Note that I have no disk (Remove Disk is greyed) when I start for A:

* Image 006.png
(10.99 kB, 483x240 - viewed 608 times)



Same goes for B: (Remove Disk is grayed).

* Image 007.png
(22.57 kB, 663x434 - viewed 670 times)



I mount testdata.dsk as A:

* Image 008.png
(21.43 kB, 637x411 - viewed 601 times)



And testsys.dsk as B:
 [ Invalid Attachment ]


Then when running command cat on both disks you can see that B: has 704KB free. (?)
 [ Invalid Attachment ]


If I remove disks and restart WinApe and mount testsys.dsk as A: it shows the correct 169KB free. Then unmounting it without restarting WinApe I mount the same testsys.dsk as B: and back is the 704KB free.


I'll try on another Windows computer when I have time, but at the moment I have some unanswered questions. Am I doing it wrong (I don't think so), is it a software bug? Is it my system?


Regards,


Bjørn


Offline Bryce

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #5 on: 11:33, 10 January 13 »
Can't you format a real System disk on a real CPC, then convert it to DSK/HFE to use as a blank whenever you want?

Bryce.

Offline Cholo

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #6 on: 18:56, 10 January 13 »
Thanks for the pictures as that reveals it all. You are running one of winape's (default i think) configurations and i think all of them includes the PARADOS rom extention. PARADOS is a quite advanced extention of the normal AMSDOS and so allows for another 15-ish disc formats.

Translation to human language: your emulator is emulating a 6128 with internal 3" A: drive and a external 3,5" B: drive. What exactly happens when you insert a normal 180kb disc image into the B: drive i must admit i have no clue on .. especially as the image is "empty" and has been made outside the emulator by other people. Im no disc wizard either so it may as well be the DSK format/specs that is the culprit.

Solution: Simply only use your 180kb disks in drive A: should do the trick. Or if you want to be 100% sure .. no doubt removing the PARADOS rom and replacing it with the normal AMSDOS rom will fix things = turn your cpc into a 6128 with normal 3" drives.
Like open winape. Select Setting -> Memory and click on ROM 7 PARADOS to get a dropdown menu and then select AMSDOS instead aka end up with:


Make sure to restart the emulator just to be on the safe side.

Strongly suggest sticking to use Single Sided DSK's too. Being a "cassette tape dork of ages" myself ive still not become clever on all the techy dual/flip sided oversized, extended and whatnot disc formats .. even after 25 years.

Ive attached some empty & formatted Single Sided Data & System DSK images (40 tracks both) that im sure will work for you. Also dont forget: it dosnt really matter if the destination DSK is empty or not, so you can use any game or program DSK as long as the format is the same as the source (as i assume youll be doing whole track copying of you discs).
« Last Edit: 18:58, 10 January 13 by Cholo »

Offline kribjo

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #7 on: 02:07, 14 January 13 »
Hi,


Reading your post Bryce I was kind of embarrassed.  Why didn't I think of that?  :-[
But when home Cholo had his images delivered on a plate for me. Thanks.  :)  I've also put AMSDOS as ROM no 7. It was not in my mind that it could create any problem.


I have also realised some facts regarding copying discs and files, which have helpded out. It also turns out that I have more disks than I thought with disc error, which gave the backup command in Xexor a hard time. I'm not finished yet, but so far I have managed to salvage all my files with the copy command of Xexor for the discs with an error.


Regards,


Bjørn

Offline jibanes

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Thank you folks, I just ordered the HxC today, I imagine it will take 2 weeks to be delivered.

Now, that gives me a few days to prepare my SD card, and as such, I understand that DSK files have to be converted to HFE. Is there a Linux application to do this?

Also, would it be advisable to acquire a X-Mem board?

Offline CraigsBar

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Thank you folks, I just ordered the HxC today, I imagine it will take 2 weeks to be delivered.

Now, that gives me a few days to prepare my SD card, and as such, I understand that DSK files have to be converted to HFE. Is there a Linux application to do this?

Also, would it be advisable to acquire a X-Mem board?


not sure about Linux, but there are Windows and OSX downloads here: HxC2001 : HxC Floppy Emulator download
I am sure a Linux version is not impossible however the Windows version works with WINE.


Well an X-Mem is not required for the HxC, but the HXC rom is very handy for administering the 15 virtual floppy slots.


Craig

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Offline Gryzor

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The Floppy Emulator Manager works under Linux too, according to Jeff's page. But I'm not aware of the details...

Offline Jeff_HxC2001

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Thank you folks, I just ordered the HxC today, I imagine it will take 2 weeks to be delivered.

Now, that gives me a few days to prepare my SD card, and as such, I understand that DSK files have to be converted to HFE. Is there a Linux application to do this?

Also, would it be advisable to acquire a X-Mem board?

For linux : Just get the sources through SVN from the sourceforge and build it.


I think the troubles isnt with your physical floppies and isnt with the copying programs either .. but with the HxC hardware itself. The HxC isnt a real floppy drive and once you have loaded a floppy image of a blank disc it "locks" to the format of the image.

So only in the case of you wanting to copy a floppy of the EXACT same format to an EXACT same blank HxC image will it succeed. Like trying to copy a CPM disc onto a DATA disc wint happen. Or copying a 41 track data disc onto a 39 track data disc wont happen either.
...

For the above copy/format subject : Get the latest firmware, the low level format is now possible, so this should work a lot better  :D .
« Last Edit: 09:07, 08 July 14 by Jeff_HxC2001 »

Offline Executioner

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Re: Copying physical floppy to HxC floppy and DSK/HFE format
« Reply #12 on: 05:18, 09 July 14 »
As you may know both Xexor and WinApe was programmed by Richard Wilson so WinApe actually supports some kinda .arc format (but sadly not the format i get from the Xexor i have). Would be really sweet if it supported it though  ;)

The ARC format supported by WinAPE is supposed to be the same as the Xexor one. Can you send me an ARC file that doesn't work so I can try and determine why not?

Offline Executioner

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The version of ParaDOS that (currently) comes with WinAPE is set up to use Electro formats in Drive B: and Drive B: is set to 80 track, double-sided by default. At the time when I created ParaDOS I had a lot of 5.25" discs and images of them which were formatted as Data DS80 (716K). These formats were quite popular in the CPC community in Australia back in the day. The next release version of ParaDOS will not have these formats enabled by default. I've migrated all my images to ROMDOS D20.

Offline jibanes

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I've tried to run CPCDiskXP v2.5.1 with wine on linux to no avail; is there a source (ftp?) of HFE floppies that I can dump on a sd card; or maybe some recommendation on how I can achieve this? (no windows computer here). I don't think I can use the sourceforge build, because I have the HXC-SD, not USB.

Cheers

Update: I found how, it's cool.
« Last Edit: 00:04, 26 July 14 by jibanes »

Offline Jeff_HxC2001

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[...]I don't think I can use the sourceforge build, because I have the HXC-SD, not USB.

?!?
This is the same source for both. All is on sourceforge...

HxC Floppy Drive Emulator | Free Development software downloads at

Offline jibanes

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Thank you Jeff, I didn't know, it works great!