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avatar_fano

Hxc on DDI-1 ?

Started by fano, 17:55, 21 October 11

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fano

Just got my DDI-1 today , it works fine but i have a problem to use it with the SD Hxc.That seems like DDI extension refuses to initialize when it does not detect a drive.
Does someone already tried to use this extension with DDI ? (with or without succes)
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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Badstarr

Could possibly be related to the "DRIVE READY" status however just out of interest how many pins does the ribbon cable that connects to the original 3" drive inside your DDI-1 have?
Proud owner of 464 GTM64 6128 GTM65, GX4128 and a 464/6128 Plus Hybrid a 20 year long ambition realised! :-)

fano

I do not use 3" ribbon but the one that outs from DDI extension (i suppose it is the same than expansion port on 664/6128 as i connected the FD from the DDI-1 directly to it with a 3"5 ribbon)
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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Badstarr

#3
I see, well from my previous experiments with a DDI-1 about 10 years ago, I don't think you can simply connect to the DDI-1 interface as far as I remember the pinouts are different. There is a schematic on the wiki so it might be worth checking that out but I'm pretty sure you will need to make an adaptor to use the HxC in this way, I also suspect that the DDI-1 gets its power from the drive power supply rather than being BUS Powered, but I could be wrong.


I think also that the +5v line of the drive is connected to various parts of the floppy ribbon cable socket internally, this might explain why you can connect the drive to your 6128 but not connect a drive directly to the DDI-1, however again you would simply need to make an adaptor to make the HxC work.


The schematic is in the DDI-1 Service Manual, the wiki link does not seem to be working for me but I have a copy of it on my computer if you need it!
Proud owner of 464 GTM64 6128 GTM65, GX4128 and a 464/6128 Plus Hybrid a 20 year long ambition realised! :-)

Zetr0

#4
Yes, Badstarr is most correct the DD-1 interface gets its +5v from the FD1 hardware via the shugart cable. Without the FD1 there is no power for the DD-1 interface =(

If you have a FD1 then you will need to be very cautious when wiring up the HxC device, as the +5v that is present on the shugart data cable will damage it.


I am sure Sir Sugar ensured this was the case, clearly his hatred for 3.5" drives is well known lol!



Anyway I would humbly suggest modifing the DD-1 device to pull +5v from the interface connector of the 464 and modify the DD-1 inteface 34 pin header by removing the +5v pins.

This way you can use the DD-1 as a general disk drive unit as well use the FD1 - ensuring that no other unmodified device / cable is in use.

I plan to do how-to when I get some time, perhaps this weekend since I have the 464 setup on the table =)


Hope that helps
If I had a hammer.....

fano

Thanks for your replies , i'll be carefull with this.I'll wait for your how to , that would be usefull to connect 3"5 drive on DDI too.
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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Gryzor

Quote from: Badstarr on 18:31, 21 October 11

The schematic is in the DDI-1 Service Manual, the wiki link does not seem to be working for me but I have a copy of it on my computer if you need it!

Hey mate, could you reup it to the wiki then? :)


Bryce

Hi Fano,
       as mentioned above, your main problem is that the DDI-1 isn't getting the 5V that it needs. Take a look here for instructions on how to convert your DDI-1: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DDI_Modification

Bryce.

Badstarr

@Gryzor I would be happy to re up it, erm... how do I do that exactly, never upped a file to a wiki before lol!
Proud owner of 464 GTM64 6128 GTM65, GX4128 and a 464/6128 Plus Hybrid a 20 year long ambition realised! :-)

Bryce

There's an upload link near the bottom of the menu on the Wiki. Click on it and choose the file to upload from your local drive, that's it. Make sure the file has the exact same name as the current Wiki file, otherwise you'll have to edit any pages that refer to the file.

Bryce.

Badstarr

Ok I tried to upload, however, it seems that you can just right click the original link and  "save target as" or "download linked file" if you like apple flavoured computers. Anyway I uploaded a pdf version that can be accessed directly and viewed in a browser (well at least you can in Safari). As of yet I haven't made any links.


I tried a RAR version but it doesn't seem to work for some reason ?? ::)
Proud owner of 464 GTM64 6128 GTM65, GX4128 and a 464/6128 Plus Hybrid a 20 year long ambition realised! :-)

Gryzor

Hm, we have rar disabled? Will look into it...

*edit* I see that you successfully uploaded it after all! But it's not linked to in any page... what was the original page?

Thanks for your effort, mate! :)

fano

Quote from: Bryce on 18:10, 22 October 11
Hi Fano,
       as mentioned above, your main problem is that the DDI-1 isn't getting the 5V that it needs. Take a look here for instructions on how to convert your DDI-1: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DDI_Modification

Bryce.
Thanks a lot , a Hxc on a 464 will rock !
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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awergh

Hmm reminds me I should do that but I've been busy and haven't tried because I want to do it without modifying the 34way ribbon cable instead modifying the 3½ drive and removing the pins which is a little problem.

Actually the real problem is that the ribbon cable smells really strongly of disgusting smoke and I haven't really tried hard to remove it apart from detergenty water and a toothbrush which seemed to be working at the time but it still smelt terrible much later although it has been sitting in the same box for a while as in months so that might not be helping.

Bryce

I replaced the flat cable completely on my DDI-1 for more or less the same reason. I also only made those changes to the connector at the end of the cable, so the first connector can still be used for an FD-1 and the second cable is for a3.5in or HxC.

Bryce.

awergh

This is true but I didn't see a way to detach the cable from the DDI-1, also for some reason I somehow liked the idea of having 2 FD-1 on the one cable even though the chance of me finding 2  FD-1 seems pretty unlikely currently.

Womble

Disconnect the ribbon cable from the DDI and the drives and put in the in dishwasher - I have done it numerous times with arcade PCB interconnect ribbons that are manky and they come out like new.

awergh

I didn't see a way to disconnect the ribbon cable from the DDI I may have overlooked something although Bryce did tell me not to soak the ribbon cable in water but maybe I can soak it in water but leave the connectors out of the water?

Bryce

It's not easy to remove the ribbon cable, you have to carefully open the PCB connector and peal the cable off the IDC pins. If you go to all that bother, it's easier to just replace the flat cable with a new one rather than cleaning the old one.

Bryce.

Zetr0

+1 for the Dish Washer

Just remember to take it out before the drying cycle and pop it in an airing cupboard for a couple of hours =)

Personally if you can live without it for a day, stick the whole lot in on an economic wash (50c) you wont need soap as the salt in the water will do all the nessasary work.

The reason for the eco-wash setting is to make sure its not to hot, 50c is perfectly fine,  remember to remove this before any drying cycle the dish washer might have, then put this up in an airing cupboard (where the hot water tank is) for a day or so (24 - 36 hours), make sure it's (the PCB) is upside down =)

job done =D
If I had a hammer.....

Bryce

#20
Although many people give this "dishwasher" advice and even do this themselves on occassions, I would definitely not advise anyone to do this. The salt in a dishwasher is highly corrosive. It won't kill the electronics immediately, but it will significantly shorten the life of the electronics and the device will eventually fail. Tiny salt particles will always be left on the PCB, solder points and component pins. These crystals collect under components and around solder points. When mixed with humidity from the air, they will slowly eat through many parts of the PCB. By the time it's visible, the PCB is usually beyond repair. If you really want to clean a PCB with water, then do it with luke-warm water and some hand soap in a basin and rinse if very well with fresh water afterwards, but don't let salt anywhere near it and don't put it in the dishwasher.

Bryce.

Edit: Here's a close up of an IC socket after slow salt corrosion. Not pretty. Now imagine this happening to every component in your CPC at the same time...  :(


Zetr0

@bryce

That looks distinctly like battery damage by a leaking soduim / potasium based rechargable accumilator.

with the collection around the front socket as so, its almost a distinctive damage pattern of an Amiga A2000 battery damage.

There is a distinct difference between the potential of sodium hydroxide from a rechargeable accumilator (battery) than that of dishwasher salt.  While I would say its also a good caution to make - hence the rinse and hold =)
If I had a hammer.....

SyX

poor little Amiga  :'( 

Bryce

#23
The damage caused by a battery leak is almost identical to salt damage, both are caused by sodium crystals mixed with water on a metal surface. The only difference is that the battery leak seems more aggressive, because it wasn't washed off immediately (it usually doesn't get noticed for months). If the dishwasher PCB wasn't rinsed at all, then it would also corrode this fast. That's why I suggest keeping salt well away from PCBs, because even the best rinse will not remove 100% of the salt. We perform salt aging and battery leak tests on our PCBs here at work, and they all look very similar after both tests - Both well beyond being repairable.
If you know what you are doing, and are happy to clean you PCBs this way, then continue to do so, but I would be careful about recommending it to other people, who are not aware of the dangers. You might end up getting hate-mail from someone who didn't rinse their board very well and have a CPC that dies weeks later.

Bryce.

Edit: The Amiga (or was it an ST) in question had minor battery leakage, but it's main problem was that it was left in a boat-house near the beach for several years! (Who does these things?) So the salt-air did the most damage as far as I know.

MaV

Quote from: SyX on 14:54, 25 October 11
poor little Amiga  :'(

Zetr0 compares the damage to the usual Amiga battery damage, bryce's picture is not taken from an Amiga as far as I can see.

The Amiga 2000 battery is found on the corner of the pcb, AFAIK. Luckily I might add, as this results less damage if the battery acid can run off the edge.
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