Is it possible to build a megaflash with included 512kb Ram Exp and Lower ROM

[Pentagon]

Hello,

Is it possible to build an all in one PCB for Megaflash included 512kb usual RAM Exp and lower ROM switch?

So we would just need one Expansion for all?


That would be probably the best expansion board and the most useful thingy.

Just some thoughts....

Tom / Pentagon

[Bryce]

Yes of course it's possible, a no-brainer in fact, but the reason I've kept everything separate is because not everyone wants everything. The "All singing and dancing" (Eierlegendewollmilchsau) version would be large and expensive. Some people just want the RAM, some just the ROM, so why should they pay for all the other stuff they don't want. That's why I've kept my stuff modular and compatible. Of course it adds a little bit to the price for the cable / connectors etc. but it also make it possible for everyone to pick and choose exactly what they want for their "ultimate CPC". After I've released the RAM expansion, I'll do an all-in-one module layout and have it priced, then we can see how many people would really be interested.

Bryce.

[Pentagon]

Sounds logical and great !

I am still interested, if you like we can try to work out together to build an "internal all singing and dancing powercard".

An internal solution with all expansions at one card together 

That would be "WOW!"


Cheers
Tom

[steve]

If you are going to build a "big" internal expansion board for the CPC, you could make it a replacement for the mainboard, you could then give the CPC some of the features of the plus, like 4096 colours.

[Pentagon]

I am thinking more about a usual daughterboard for internal use, like the amiga turbocards. Open CPC6128 plug out some chips. Put the chips into the new daughterboard and plugin the "internal 512 kb Memory, Megaflash, Lower Rom Board", close the case and its done.

I dont know if its possible to create it as small and tiny that it fit between Mainboard and Disc drive.... but that would be a great idea to do.

Your idea is like to build a new CPC at an FPGA and not the same idea i am following (your idea is great but its like to design a new CPC7512^^).

I like to build an 100% compatible internal card with all the features of the usual 512kb extra Memory, Megaflash for Parados, FOS,Bdos etc. and a lower ROM Board for switching the 6128 between 464 / 6128 mode and own init screens.

So it would expand the usual 6128 to a most compatible CPC Version ever made and its switchable to downgrade to 464 and you can play Country Cottages or other 464 games too.

I like the idea, in combination with an internal SD-HxC like i did some time ago. You never need a disc again and you always use the most compatible expanded to the max CPC.

And its still just one CPC without any external cables. Just Power and Videocable and nothing else. That would be awesome or?


Cheers
Tom

[TFM]

Well, ok, I don't know how many people would be interrested. However it may be worth asking the community if they would like 4 MB or RAM instaed of the regular 512 KB....

Ok, ok, I already talked too much about the 4 MB, but it's just fascinating me. And maybe some other people here would be intrrested too. If you are one of them, if you have interest in 4 MB RAM, then please reply here!!!

Aside of ROM, RAM, Lower-ROM, and PS2/USB mouse adapter it may be worth considering some other gimmicks (RTC, SIO, PIO, IDE, dreams...). However it's up to Bryce to consider that kind of stuff.

I definitely would take one if it would have 4 MB RAM 

[qbert]

For the first point, I don't think an all-in-one PCB for Megaflash including RAM Expansion and lower ROM switch is a good idea considering power consumption OR we will add a switch for each part (ROM and RAM).
For the second point, plain internal integration give an additional difficulty with this : we will need to perforate the case in order to make the switches available to the user OR add long wires emerging with switches through the expansion port : bweerk : I don't want to do that to my beloved (27 years of common life) CPC !
Moreover, possibility to switch on/off each expansion may be required for compatibility issues with software.
Considering your question, TFM, 512kb is all I need for the moment, but I would appreciate the 4 Mb expansion in case it could be switched on/off independently from the 512Kb "dk'tronics-like" base. (similar motivations that points above).
My point is : Don't ask to much to Bryce at a time or all of this will end as a forsaken project. I do remember the (in)famous CPCNG (next generation CPC) project that never provided anything tangible.

[OCT]

Aside of ROM, (4MB, yes please  ) RAM, Lower-ROM, and PS2/USB mouse adapter it may be worth considering some other gimmicks (RTC, SIO, PIO, IDE, dreams...). However it's up to Bryce to consider that kind of stuff.

It looks like a SymbiFace3 (on steroids & with some of Yarek's DNA thrown in),  it quacks like a SymbiFace3 (MP3 or not),  too bad that one never surfaced to the shores of Lake Starnberg. 

[TFM]

For the first point, I don't think an all-in-one PCB for Megaflash including RAM Expansion and lower ROM switch is a good idea considering power consumption OR we will add a switch for each part (ROM and RAM).

No need for that power consumption is quite small. My 6128 has 4 MB RAM, 2.5 MB Flash, an RTC, HD20 hard-disc controller, lightpen-box, Vidi-CPC Video-Digitizer and Vortex FDC-Box all at the same time. And all runs stable and well.

Considering your question, TFM, 512kb is all I need for the moment, but I would appreciate the 4 Mb expansion in case it could be switched on/off independently from the 512Kb "dk'tronics-like" base.

No need for that the 4 MB expanson is 100% compatible to the 0.5 MB expanion. If fact the 4 MB can be considered as 8x 0.5 MB.

[Bryce]

Power consumption wouldn't really be an issue, and for the buttons/switches, I also have a relatively neat solution, that would keep most people happy. The real problem would be interfacing to the Mainboard. There is no single IC that has all the signals I would need. Those of you who know Amiga 500/600 hardware will know that usually the expansions plugged onto Gary, or Fat Agnus (or to the 68000 in one case), both ICs had most if not all of the connections required. The CPC is a different story. I would need to interface to so many places and most of these aren't on one IC, they are all over the place and depending on whether you have a 464/664/6128/Low Cost PCB etc the signals are in different places on each version, this makes things very difficult. The only place that all the signals come together (on all versions) is the expansion port, hence I prefer to keep things external.

But That's not to say that I won't take a look at this project later, I just have other stuff I'd prefer to do first.

Bryce.

[TFM]

@Bryce, I do agree with that. As an example of an internal additional board the Vortex 512 KB RAM expansion for the 464 may serve. IIRC it does connect to threee (!) different ICs in the 464 and it was never ever released for the 6128, because it would need them to do a complete redesign of the board.

So I do definitely prefer expansions at the expansion board.

There is another important point to consider: An expansion at the expansion port can be used with different CPCs (my 6128Plus and my CPC6128, even my CPC64140.  But the internal stuff would be good for only one CPC.

[rpalmer]

pentagon,

There is of course the symbiface unit which has the 512K RAM expansion and expansion ROM included in the interface.

rpalmer

[Gryzor]

Me likey. I wouldn't mind terribly if it was an external board - though an internal one would of course be much neater -, and I'd certainly be willing to pay the price (I guess). I'd love that - an excellent idea for a fantastic souped-up CPC++...


@rpalmer: yes, but it requires its own power supply which is a downer if you're looking for elegance and simplicity...

[TFM]

@rpalmer: yes, but it requires its own power supply which is a downer if you're looking for elegance and simplicity...

However, an advantage if you like to connect some more additional cards.

[OCT]

SCNR, but seriously?

There is of course the symbiface unit which has the 512K RAM expansion and expansion ROM included in the interface.

Or did you mean to say:
Rare is of course the Symbiface...

[TFM]

SCNR, but seriously?Or did you mean to say:
Rare is of course the Symbiface...

125 units have been produced and sold. That's not rare for the CPC.

[ivarf]

Ok, ok, I already talked too much about the 4 MB, but it's just fascinating me. And maybe some other people here would be intrrested too. If you are one of them, if you have interest in 4 MB RAM, then please reply here!!!

Back in the day I found the adverts for Amstrad CPC 464 very fascinating. The adverts said that the 464  could have 4 MB of ROM software, I think it was ROM. It would be nice to have it, and release this part of the 464s potential

[Bryce]

Theoretically it could. The 4MB ROM would be if you had all 252 sideways ROMs attached. Electronically speaking, no problem, but each ROM takes a little bit of RAM, so in practice it would never really work, the RAM would be immediately filled and you'd have no space for anything to run.
Even the 32 ROMs that the MegaFlash offers is borderline as far a RAM usage is concerned, depending on what ROMs you've installed (some need more RAM than others).

Bryce.

[MacDeath]

what about getting a USB port to put a USB memory stick on it (or non usb memory stick actually... a little thing the size of my little finger nails can hold 8Gigas nowadays, for a few €uros...) that would act just like a Hard Disk Drive ?

how does the HDD works on a CPC ? is it a practicle thing ?

I know old PCs used to have shittons of DMA for those, hence fast and good disk access... what is it on a CPC compaired to a Floppy Disk Drive ?

Are there some games that can/actually run from a HDD ?

Is it difficult to mod stuffs so they run from a HDD instead of Floppies


The Symbiface used to enable a HDD connection, but...well... What the point to use such big noisy and cranky shit these days while some non-mecanical stick can do quite well and fast enough I guess (with far less power-consuption).

Extra points if you can flash some ROM banks from such emulated HDD too.



How boring and noisy...



Elegant, awesome and Bier friendly.
Also 4Gigas which is quite a lot for a CPC and my Liver too.

Of course it adds a little bit to the price for the cable / connectors etc. but it also make it possible for everyone to pick and choose exactly what they want for their "ultimate CPC".

I quite like the way the Arduino cards are designed so you can put some shileds on them to add extra functions.

If you don't want the extra "layers" on your sandwich, just let the empty holes.
If you want to upgrade, go for something looking like this :


yet perhaps a bit less miniaturised of course.

[Bryce]

Well Compact Flash cards are smaller and less noisy than an old HDD and they use the same IDE interface, so you could replace the HDD on a SymbiFace with a Compact Flash. rpalmers IDE interface can do the same without all the extra SF2 stuff.

Bryce.

[MacDeath]

aren't they still a bit pricey , compaired to USB or MS/SD things ?

I have no Symbiface anyway.

I do have an arduino though, but suck deeply at coding and cabling it into a CPC/PLUS.

But as my ethernet shield also sport a Micro SD card reader, i guess it could be turned into a HDD emulator ?

[Gryzor]

Yes, they're more pricey, but still, you'll only need one to cover all your systems... not a real cost.

[Bryce]

SD cards aren't that difficult to interface with, they have an SPI interface that your Arduino can also communicate with, the main work involved is creating FAT drivers to handle the data. USB is a completely different animal and would require you to create a USB Host - Not easily done.

Your main problem with the Arduino is that it was made to be the main part of the system, not an interface, so connecting the Arduino to the CPC would take just as much additional hardware as other interfaces MegaFlash, HxC etc already have. At that point you can save on size and price by getting rid of the Arduino.

Bryce.

[Cholo]

Well Compact Flash cards are smaller and less noisy than an old HDD and they use the same IDE interface, so you could replace the HDD on a SymbiFace with a Compact Flash.

A bit off topic: but i just wanted to suggest that its better to use SD-2-IDE adapter with a SF (simply based on my troubles trying to get a CF version to work with SF2). The SD adapter being a bit more expensive (but also being a bit more advanced in all ways and including auto master/slave selecting etc) worked flawlessly. Anyways, the point Bryce made was that you can use adapters instead of a large noisy hdd (and you get the bonus of the SD is also easier to plug up to the pc for file transfers).

Anyways back on topic: If i recall right the SF2 was 140 euros and i think it scared off quite a few people. So there is the cost to worry about on "large projects" of cause. Id definately suggest a external or similar plug & play-friendly version as well (as the internal stuff again will scare off some people). As ive learned from the SF2 it can quickly become "cable-hell" and a adventure to use it .. so its good to think in "compact" terms (but all Bryce's great expansions so far has been compact and pretty cable free so no worries).

Another off topic: The SF2 has 1mb ram but does the clever thing that you can use it as either just 1mb ram or by setting a jumper you get 512kb of "rom" space and 512kb ram .

oh and id definately be interested in buying a MegaBryce-thingy if one gets available one day 

[TFM]

Theoretically it could. The 4MB ROM would be if you had all 252 sideways ROMs attached. Electronically speaking, no problem, but each ROM takes a little bit of RAM, so in practice it would never really work, the RAM would be immediately filled and you'd have no space for anything to run.
Even the 32 ROMs that the MegaFlash offers is borderline as far a RAM usage is concerned, depending on what ROMs you've installed (some need more RAM than others).

Bryce.

Well, if you only initialize the first 32 ROMs like with the MegaFlash, and use the others for a ROM disc (or what ever you want) it should be no problem.

BTW: The CPC-OS does support up to 252 ROMs, the hardware itself does support all 256 ROMs. However, the Plus is limited to 128 ROMs - if you use more, then the cartridge gets deactivated.

I actually have a 2.5 MB Flash ROM expansion in one of my 6128, and it works very well.