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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: talrek on 21:36, 11 February 15

Title: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:36, 11 February 15
Hi everybody,
i must be crazy but i would like to build a MF2 clone since we now have all we need to make it...

First, i thought about a compatible MX4 format board. I tried, but i must admit, there is a lot of components, and 5x8 cm is small for a MF2
I'll try to minimize the size by using SMD components (except for Gals), but i not guarantee it will be the size of a XMEM or XMASS

First, i'm going to make the pcb and i'll show the 3d result ;-)

price will be 30 euros without cable, add 5 euros for either a edge connector or a centronics one

[EDIT] 04/04/2015
1st pics !!!!!!!

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Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 22:40, 11 February 15
Hi Talrek,
I'm in for one ;-)


Lattice GAL16V8B IC 10pcs | eBay (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Lattice-GAL16V8B-IC-10pcs-/230255582249?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item359c4d5c29)
Not the cheapest but the seller seems ok, 37.5e for 60 units to build 20 MF2 clones.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 22:47, 11 February 15
Thank you. I bought some IC's from them , they are OK.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Munchausen on 23:15, 11 February 15
Already noted in the other thread, but I'm interested!

I'm surprised it's such a squeeze as I figured the original MF2 PCB is fairly close to MX4 size already... but I will leave that to the expert!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 00:13, 12 February 15
I've an original MF2 here. It's only a little bit bigger than an MX4 format and it has to have that big edge connector in the middle. It should easily fit on an MX4 format.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 12:25, 12 February 15
Without the edge connector, the size is 9,6x6,3 cm.
The mx4 format is 8x5.
There is a difference of 20,5cm^2
Hard to believe but it's true

So I must find a way to find space.... But even with smd it's hard
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 13:25, 12 February 15
If you go SMD you can put parts on both sides of the board and save major amounts of space.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 14:01, 12 February 15
Yes you're right, i'll try that.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:39, 12 February 15
Ok it fits on a MX4 format
great !!!


Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 22:22, 12 February 15
I would take one - even if the MF2 is not powerful enough to deal with FutureOS.  :laugh:
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 22:41, 12 February 15
I've an original MF2 here. It's only a little bit bigger than an MX4 format and it has to have that big edge connector in the middle. It should easily fit on an MX4 format.

Bryce.

Since you own an original MF2, could you please tell me the resistor network's value ?  :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 02:41, 13 February 15
Hi everybody,
i must be crazy but i would like to build a MF2 clone since we now have all we need to make it...

First, i thought about a compatible MX4 format board. I tried, but i must admit, there is a lot of components, and 5x8 cm is small for a MF2
I'll try to minimize the size by using SMD components (except for Gals), but i not guarantee it will be the size of a XMEM or XMASS

First, i'm going to make the pcb and i'll show the 3d result ;-)

For the price i must see, but it will be more than 24 euros, there is at least three GAL16V8...


A Multiface? The holy grail!


And if you get it working for the CPC I'm sure Spectrum owners would also be interested. They change hands for a fortune on Ebay so you can be sure of a good demand!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: pelrun on 03:16, 13 February 15
I'd have implemented it all in a CPLD instead, then it's just one chip instead of 6. :) Well done getting it all to fit, anyway!

I'd buy one but my MotherX4 is already full...


Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 03:33, 13 February 15
I'd have implemented it all in a CPLD instead, then it's just one chip instead of 6. :) Well done getting it all to fit, anyway!

I'd buy one but my MotherX4 is already full...
Buy another MotherX4 then and add it to the passthrough, That was my plan as mine is also full and I have expressed interest in this card and I am kinda sense a RTC may not be that far away either LOL 
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: pelrun on 04:01, 13 February 15
I'm waiting on some PCBs to get here from China, then I'll have an FPGA wired to the expansion bus. May as well just implement an MF2 myself at that point :)


(damn, I wish I put a couple of buttons on that board now, there was plenty of space for them...)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 10:32, 13 February 15
I'd have implemented it all in a CPLD instead, then it's just one chip instead of 6. :) Well done getting it all to fit, anyway!

I'd buy one but my MotherX4 is already full...
Well, I chose to stay as close as possible to the original design. Due to the mx4 size I had to modify the placement and use smd, it is the only compromise I'm ready to do to keep original retro spirit.
Though a cpld is a very good idea to gain a lot of space.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 10:50, 13 February 15

A Multiface? The holy grail!


And if you get it working for the CPC I'm sure Spectrum owners would also be interested. They change hands for a fortune on Ebay so you can be sure of a good demand!
Well I can see after. I'd like to work on spectrum. But first I will have to find one
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 12:27, 13 February 15
Since you own an original MF2, could you please tell me the resistor network's value ?  :D

No problem. I'll check at the weekend. I also have a Spectrum MF, so I can check stuff on that too if needed.

Bryce.

P.s. I don't actually need either of them, so if anyone really wants to own an original then make a reasonable offer.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 14:29, 13 February 15
Ok so here is the details :

i'm going to make 10 pieces first. Since it is the first batch i need to be sure it works well, before to invest more...
Second batch (don't know how many) just after.

For the moment i've counted 8 reservations.

2 left.

Price will be 30 euros in MX4 format.
If you want a cable add 5 euros either edge connector or centronics.

I will edit the first post.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 14:41, 13 February 15
Well I can see after. I'd like to work on spectrum. But first I will have to find one (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji1.png) (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji2.png)


IIRC each model of Speccy required a different Multiface but perhaps it would be possible to design an all in one solution.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 15:20, 13 February 15

IIRC each model of Speccy required a different Multiface but perhaps it would be possible to design an all in one solution.

Yes, I think there were a few versions. The one I have is for the +2/+3 as far as I can remember.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 16:02, 13 February 15
Yes, I think there were a few versions. The one I have is for the +2/+3 as far as I can remember.

Bryce.


I had a Multiface 3. And like a fool I threw it away.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 16:22, 13 February 15
I want one too  8)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: freaktmp on 17:02, 13 February 15
I'll take one.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 17:21, 13 February 15
Ok i think the list is complete.
I'm going to order all the components and pcb this week end.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 18:28, 13 February 15
Ok i think the list is complete.
I'm going to order all the components and pcb this week end.
yippee new multiface underway.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Token on 18:47, 13 February 15
I'll also take one (with edge cable) when possible  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 19:15, 13 February 15
Too late!  :P 
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 20:01, 13 February 15
Is your Multiface 2 clone directly connectable on mother 4x ?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:44, 13 February 15
It is what i intend to do  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:45, 13 February 15
I'll also take one (with edge cable) when possible  :)

ok for next time :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 13:27, 14 February 15
I've got one, but of course I'll take one from the next batch, please :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Token on 13:45, 14 February 15
ok for next time :)


Merci  :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 14:11, 14 February 15
It is what i intend to do  ;)
Great! That's exactly what i wanted.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: fgbrain on 19:56, 14 February 15
Besides of the new MF2 hardware, we might think how the software can be improved.... :P
Perhaps is it possible to call other ROM applications when pausing the cpu?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Jungsi on 15:55, 15 February 15
I'll also take one from next batch if it's possible :-)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 16:48, 15 February 15
I'll also take one from next batch if it's possible :-)

No problem, i write all names for next time  :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Munchausen on 00:14, 16 February 15
Besides of the new MF2 hardware, we might think how the software can be improved.... :P
Perhaps is it possible to call other ROM applications when pausing the cpu?

Other MF2 software has been done before, so you should be able to call ROM software I guess? The MF2 has 8K RAM that you can put code in to be called when it is paused. In particular tearaway looks cool (CPCRULEZ &#9733 APPLICATION &#9733 DIVERS &#9733 Tearaway: The Informer{UK} (http://cpcrulez.fr/applications_util-tearaway-the_informer.htm)).

There are loadds of other cool things you could do though:

. A debugger that is used with a RAM or ROM expansion and sits in higher memory (>128K) or ROM allowing you to debug the whole of the first 128K.
. A menu that allows loading/saving directly to SNA files (on hard disc, preferably).
. A system that allows directly loading/saving a SNA and then optionally boots back to symbos and starts again where you left off...

In theory, if symbos allowed selecting of image files for the HxC, it would be really cool to do the third option because you could load up a game to the HxC, then have symbos save its current state and reboot automatically launching the disk when restarting. Using the MF2 games could then be saved in SNA format and when you're done playing symbos could resume exactly where it left off. Later the SNA loader in symbos could be used to load up the saved games directly from Symbos. Something like this was discussed some time back, but I forget in which thread. It requires a lot of stuff to be done in symbos though (saving/loading state, HxC image selection, automatic booting of disk software) as well as the new MF2 code.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Cpcmaniaco on 02:29, 16 February 15
One more for me on the new batch, please.

Thanks.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: archcosmo on 05:43, 16 February 15
I'll take one from the next batch as well

don't forget Romantic Robot's The Insider software
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=5266 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=5266)

and also Comparator
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=4714 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=4714)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: fgbrain on 16:05, 16 February 15
We all know about existing software supporting the Multiface like the ones mentioned above.

I am talking about new stuff taking advantage of bigger ROMs, disk images etc.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 17:43, 16 February 15
No problem. I'll check at the weekend. I also have a Spectrum MF, so I can check stuff on that too if needed.

Bryce.

P.s. I don't actually need either of them, so if anyone really wants to own an original then make a reasonable offer.
Bryce did you manage to see the RN value ?  

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: gerald on 18:27, 16 February 15
Bryce did you manage to see the RN value ? (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji6.png)
4.7K on mine  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 20:45, 16 February 15
4.7K on mine  ;)
Greatttt thank you !!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 14:05, 02 March 15
Are you Multiface 2 running and ready to be bought?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:25, 02 March 15
Sorry,
I ordered the parts, still waiting to receive all the parts ;-)
I'll ask for money only when i will be ready to ship, since it is the first batch and i don't want to refund everybody if there is a problem with the pcb ;-)

I found some LS (smd format) only in china... and it is the problem since it was chinese new year... they only shipped them yesterday.

be patient....  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 22:07, 02 March 15
Ok, take as time as you need... No problem.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 20:39, 03 March 15
Sorry,
I ordered the parts, still waiting to receive all the parts ;-)
I'll ask for money only when i will be ready to ship, since it is the first batch and i don't want to refund everybody if there is a problem with the pcb ;-)

I found some LS (smd format) only in china... and it is the problem since it was chinese new year... they only shipped them yesterday.

be patient....  ;)
I am really gonna need to get a 2nd Mother4X for my machine. The one I have is already full with, from front to back, X-Mem, X-Mass, PlayCity & Mini Booster. @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) : I assume that that multiple M4X boards can be chained together, and if so can they be ordered with the correct 50 pin female to female ribbon cable? Is the 5v supply passed backwards to any additional boards, or would I ideally need to provide another 5v supply to the 2nd M4X for the Multiface Remake, RTC and whatever other boards come alone in M4X format?


I love to see a new standard coming along, it makes the new expansions options so very much neater.


Craig
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 21:16, 03 March 15
Well, choose the cards you do always need. Some of them you won't use every day. Also power consumption is important.  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 21:24, 03 March 15
Well, choose the cards you do always need. Some of them you won't use every day. Also power consumption is important.  ;)
Hmm, these days that is difficult....


X-Mass and X-Mem, well these are always in use.
PlayCity. OK again always nice to have some 6 channel tunes playing in SymAmp
MiniBooster, has become my DSK Transfer device of choice, so much easier than the HXC and SD cards etc. *


Regards


Craig


*OK, the HXC is still essential for games and DSK's that are have *unusual* sector layouts etc that the minibooster just cannot handle.



Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 21:26, 03 March 15
Minibooster is cool, but only works once in a while for me. More often the PC - CPC connection just don't work. So I use the HxC instead. So switch the SD Card is a task that even I can perform quick.  :laugh:
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 00:37, 04 March 15
Minibooster is cool, but only works once in a while for me. More often the PC - CPC connection just don't work. So I use the HxC instead. So switch the SD Card is a task that even I can perform quick.  :laugh:
ahhh, there you go then. My Mac - CPC connection works 99% of the time, and when it fails restarting the app on the Mac fixes it. Ditch the PC, buy a Mac lol!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 00:42, 04 March 15
Haha!  :-*  Maybe one day. Meanwhile a couple of SD cards are more cheap than the Mac.  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: pelrun on 06:58, 04 March 15
Minibooster is cool, but only works once in a while for me. More often the PC - CPC connection just don't work. So I use the HxC instead. So switch the SD Card is a task that even I can perform quick.  :laugh:


I don't have an HxD, and I've still not gotten far enough with my Gotek firmware to use it, so I have to resort to my tape cable to transfer dsk images. Drives me mad that I can't get a full disk image across the minibooster before aft and writedsk crash on a corrupted byte.


So I just spent two days bashing my head against cpctools trying to get AFT to compile (being forced to install Visual Studio just to get a version of the libdsk.dll that I can link to and fighting CMake for days just like every other time I encounter a project that uses CMake makes me a very unhappy person.). Hopefully now I'll be able to make some robustness improvements.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 11:59, 04 March 15
I am really gonna need to get a 2nd Mother4X for my machine. The one I have is already full with, from front to back, X-Mem, X-Mass, PlayCity & Mini Booster. @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) : I assume that that multiple M4X boards can be chained together, and if so can they be ordered with the correct 50 pin female to female ribbon cable? Is the 5v supply passed backwards to any additional boards, or would I ideally need to provide another 5v supply to the 2nd M4X for the Multiface Remake, RTC and whatever other boards come alone in M4X format?

I love to see a new standard coming along, it makes the new expansions options so very much neater.

Craig

The 5V rail would be parallel across the two MX4 boards, so only one supply would be required.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: pelrun on 12:37, 04 March 15
If only there was one more mounting hole near the front of the MotherX4, then you could use a few long spacers and stack the second board above the first.


(...what do you mean you can't see the screen now? Geez, there's no pleasing some people)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Sloopie on 00:50, 05 March 15
Declare interest !! one piece please.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TotO on 00:59, 05 March 15
If only there was one more mounting hole near the front of the MotherX4, then you could use a few long spacers and stack the second board above the first.
Strange idea...  ???

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: pelrun on 05:47, 05 March 15
If I tried to daisy chain a second board behind the MotherX4, I'd push the monitor off the back of the desk before I had room.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TotO on 10:09, 05 March 15
And over, you no more see the monitor display?  ;D 


 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

You should arange them like that and does the link from the passthrough connector?

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

If you really want to make a Lego tower with them, I should provide you a second board with simple pins connectors on both sides.
So, you will be able to use the 4 holes to do what you need for your work. (your CPC mainboard make that useless)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Pentagon on 12:20, 05 March 15
I am interested in one device of the next batch too.


Thanks for that
Tom

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: The Last Bandit on 14:55, 05 March 15
Also interested in one of these. 
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: mrchip on 15:18, 05 March 15
I would also like to purchase one...
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 18:21, 05 March 15
If I tried to daisy chain a second board behind the MotherX4, I'd push the monitor off the back of the desk before I had room.


Put the monitor higher, on feet. Works very well.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:33, 06 March 15
Sloopie, Pentagon, Tle last Bandit and Mrchip you're interest is noted  ;)
You'll have to be patient ...  ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: candyOvl on 14:41, 15 March 15
Really Nice projet !! I need one MFII New Generation !!!  :P


Candy / OVerLanders!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 18:50, 16 March 15
Nice to see you here at the forum!  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 19:15, 16 March 15
Really Nice projet !! I need one MFII New Generation !!!  :P


Candy / OVerLanders!

No problem of course !!! ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: the KING on 00:04, 19 March 15
Sign me up for one too!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Joseman on 13:46, 19 March 15
count me in for one!  :)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Phantomz on 16:54, 19 March 15
Will this work on the 6128 plus? if so I'd be interest in one with an edge connector for it, thanks  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:04, 19 March 15
It should work with the CPC6128+ and the adequate centronics cable. I never tried.
but it will be tested.
If someone know about this, please talk  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 18:19, 19 March 15
IIRC the old MF2 had problems with the Plus, right?

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 19:07, 19 March 15
IIRC the old MF2 had problems with the Plus, right?
yes. The Amsdos ROM in the plus needed different code in the multiface. The only difference is the MF ROM tho.

Also,if you fit parados in your plus you need the CPC multiface and not the plus one.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Phantomz on 19:37, 19 March 15
yes. The Amsdos ROM in the plus needed different code in the multiface. The only difference is the MF ROM tho.

Also,if you fit parados in your plus you need the CPC multiface and not the plus one.

Do I lose anything if I go for a CPC Multiface instead of the plus one? Also which version is compatible with AMSDOS Firmware 3.12 ?  (This is the basic original Amstrad CPC6128 coupled to firmware 3.15).


I'm trying to get the best compatibility with games on my plus, I'm using a parados cart at the moment, only because I got fed up with the basic / burning rubber menu on the original cart.

I don't need to use parados really as I've got a hxc floppy emulator instead of a real external drive.

I've got a Cartridge on the way with Dual Roms in it, it contains PARADOS 1.0 and AMSDOS Firmware 3.12, I was told it is the original Amstrad Basic with a 3.12 firmware (100% compatible with all games).

I've got a normal cpc 6128 (original rom not parados) with a multiface and it would be nice to load any multiface saves from that up on my plus.

So I'm thinking I'll need a normal cpc multiface with the centronics cable if it works with AMSDOS Firmware 3.12 for best compatibility between both machines and games.





Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 20:18, 19 March 15
The source of the MF2 ROM is available, so - if somebody got the time - it probably could be patched to work with CPC and Plus.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:09, 19 March 15
Well MF2 Rom for CPC+ is available on the cpcwiki page ;-) so there is no problem i think
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 22:58, 19 March 15
The source of the MF2 ROM is available, so - if somebody got the time - it probably could be patched to work with CPC and Plus.
that is what I am hoping will be done in time for this release. I don't fancy ROM swaps all the time between the plus and just CPC.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 17:02, 20 March 15
Damn right! So question is: Does the MF2 ROM for the Plus also work with the CPC? In this case we could just use the Plus version.

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: The Last Bandit on 17:19, 20 March 15
Think the difference between the two is due to changes in the location of various AMSDOS routines MF2 calls. So the ROM for the CPC+ version wouldn't be backward compatible.


Put both ROM versions on the EPROM and jumper/switch to select between unless there a register that can be read to identify the machine type on startup and auto select.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 18:17, 20 March 15
Damn right! So question is: Does the MF2 ROM for the Plus also work with the CPC? In this case we could just use the Plus version.
no, they are not interchangeable.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 18:45, 20 March 15
Well, in this case, for a proper redo of the MF2 we should make a ROM compatible to both: CPC and Plus.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Phantomz on 19:52, 20 March 15
Well, in this case, for a proper redo of the MF2 we should make a ROM compatible to both: CPC and Plus.  :)

That would be cool :) What if you have both machines, do you need two or is there a converter to change from normal connection to centronics connector for the plus?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 19:54, 20 March 15
You can get adapter cables working in both directions. In general the Centronics plugs are much more reliable.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 22:37, 20 March 15
Is there enough space in the ROM to add a routine to check which model it's connected to and react accordingly?

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 22:43, 20 March 15
The source in on the Wiki, just take a look.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 23:27, 20 March 15
The source in on the Wiki, just take a look.  :)

What part of "I'm a shite coder" (stated often here in the Forum) made you think that I could in any way decypher or make any accessment of MFII source code? :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: gerald on 23:40, 20 March 15
The source in on the Wiki, just take a look.  :)
Source or rom image ? I've only seen ROM images. If you have a pointer to source, I'm taking them  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 23:45, 20 March 15
What part of "I'm a shite coder" (stated often here in the Forum) made you think that I could in any way decypher or make any accessment of MFII source code? :D

Bryce.


I guess you do pretty well. You can assemble it and see how much space is left. A plus detection only take few (20) Bytes. At work here... I have limited CPC abilities.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 23:46, 20 March 15
Source or rom image ? I've only seen ROM images. If you have a pointer to source, I'm taking them  ;)

Ok, found some stuff on an old Vortex DSK. Have fun!





Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 18:47, 22 March 15
So...much...hardware... But can't help wanting one, like stuffing one's mouth with candy when you're 10 years old...
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: skywalky on 00:21, 24 March 15
I'm interested in one of the next batch
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 19:08, 04 April 15
here are some news....
1st ex. almost done, see the pics  :D

But why "almost".... because despite all my efforts, my programmer is...dead, i failed in resurrecting it...
So i ordered a new one... please be patient, it arrives  8)

Stay tuned  :P


Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 19:13, 04 April 15
Superb!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: HAL 6128 on 19:47, 04 April 15
Hi talrek,
I'm also interested in one of the next Batch.
Thanks.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: remax on 20:34, 04 April 15
Me too :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 20:54, 04 April 15
here is some news....
1st ex. almost done, see the pics  :D

But why "almost".... because despite all my efforts, my programmer is...dead, i failed in resurrecting it...
So i ordered a new one... please be patient, it arrives  8)

Stay tuned  :P
I have hundreds of 27c128 s spare. If you need anything burning just let me know.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:11, 04 April 15
I have hundreds of 27c128 s spare. If you need anything burning just let me know.

Really thank you. Burning eprom, programming pics or xilinx devices are not a problem, i have all the needed stuff. I need only a new Gal programmer  ;D ;D
But really thank you for your offer !!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Apollo on 09:44, 05 April 15
Wow, I would like one as well from the next batch with Centronics-cable!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: 00WReX on 10:26, 05 April 15
Hi talrek,
I'm also interested in one from the next Batch please.
Thanks.

Cheers,
Shane
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: jrodriguezv on 11:06, 05 April 15
I am also interested in one from next batch.
Thanks
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 11:52, 05 April 15
No problem everyone  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 13:00, 05 April 15
No problem everyone  :)
oooh getting excited again.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Phantomz on 17:21, 05 April 15
Looking good.  8)

Will we still need to use Anti Multiface for saves on machines without a Multiface two or can this be bypassed somehow now?  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 17:44, 05 April 15
Looking good.  8)

Will we still need to use Anti Multiface for saves on machines without a Multiface two or can this be bypassed somehow now?  ;)

I think you'll still need the anti multiface software ;-) If it is wrong please someone can correct me ?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 21:24, 05 April 15
I think you'll still need the anti multiface software ;-) If it is wrong please someone can correct me ?
have you managed to re engineered the ROM to work on both the plus and old gen amsdos? Or will I still need to rom-swap?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:54, 05 April 15
Sorry I'm not a software guy  .... May be someone her ????
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 22:54, 05 April 15
Well, I'm really busy at the moment, but comparing both ROMs should help to find differences. So a ROM working for both could be made.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:13, 05 April 15
Well, I'm really busy at the moment, but comparing both ROMs should help to find differences. So a ROM working for both could be made.
As I understand it, the mf ROMs make direct calls to amsdos to load and save etc. In the plus some of these routines changed in location so the calls fail. The new ROM would need to know what machine it was in, and call amsdos accordingly. Unless of course I heard wrong and the above is total garbage.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 00:13, 06 April 15
In this case it would be better to check the DOS version independent of the machine. Because Plus Users may use 0.50 Amsdos or Parados or so.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 00:52, 06 April 15
In this case it would be better to check the DOS version independent of the machine. Because Plus Users may use 0.50 Amsdos or Parados or so.  :)
well that is true. I do recall that my 6128 plus needs the "normal" multiface EPROM when using my parados cart.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:23, 06 April 15
I'm waiting for my programmer but i had a bad news.
I bought it on Amazon, but now it says delivery last date : May 5... I think the seller is in china, but it use another adress and he answers in French... argghhh

But instead losing my time, is there somebody here to program the 3 Gals ?
I send the Gals, and the person send it back programmed.

Of course i pay for the shipment  :D
I will then be able to test it, and when the POW (Proof Of Working) is made, i will build the 9 others (i have all the parts, but don't want to waste my time if there is an error)

Thank you !



Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 19:09, 06 April 15
.. I think the seller is in china, but it use another adress and he answers in French... argghhh


But you are French, at least your Flag tells that. Or do you mean he writes in bad French?


Sometimes stuff from China arrives quite quick (even to the USA). Good luck!  :)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 19:41, 06 April 15
I can program GALs, but I don't have any here. Either I can order some and send them to you (after programming), or you send me some and I send them back. Let me know exactly what you need.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 19:58, 06 April 15
Hi Talrek,
I can do this and I'm in France, send me a PM if you like. Never done that but my TOP2011 programmer has the GAL16V8B in the compatibility list.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 20:57, 06 April 15
Yes i'm Frenchfor sure  :P :P :P :P
Well i have some Gals with me. I just need x3 to be programmed ;-)

Let's try with dxs as you live in France, it will be faster ;-)

Thanks Bryce, always nice !

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: kawickboy on 21:47, 06 April 15
anti-multiface (from logon ?) only works with 64ko software.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 22:02, 06 April 15
No problem, if it doesn't work out I can still do it. The TOP2011 should work fine, but if not I have a Batronix BX48 which definitely works.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 14:46, 07 April 15
No problem, if it doesn't work out I can still do it. The TOP2011 should work fine, but if not I have a Batronix BX48 which definitely works.

Bryce.

ok thank you I will no forget about that :)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 19:29, 18 April 15
Hello everybody  :D
Thanks to dxs, i received today some programmed gals
I tried them as soon as possible... and... It is official MultiFace2 clone on MX4 rocks  8) 8) 8)

It works well, i tried it on a cpc6128 and a plus one and it works fine so far.

I'll try to take pictures tomorrow (my daughter will do) because i broke my left wrist, and it becomes hard to solder with one hand  :'( :'(
I will solder now the 9 remaining as fast as possible, and iwait to receive my gal programmer.








Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 20:34, 18 April 15
I was all "oh yes please please I want one oh yes yes yes" and then I read your last post... Ouch! Hope it mends quickly and well, mate... And that it doesn't hurt like hell :(
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:08, 18 April 15
I was all "oh yes please please I want one oh yes yes yes" and then I read your last post... Ouch! Hope it mends quickly and well, mate... And that it doesn't hurt like hell :(
It should be a little slower but i will solder with my teeth  :laugh:

I'm going to send PM for the 1st batch watch your PMboxes ;-)
 
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 21:37, 18 April 15
Hello everybody  :D
Thanks to dxs, i received today some programmed gals
I tried them as soon as possible... and... It is official MultiFace2 clone on MX4 rocks  8) 8) 8)

It works well, i tried it on a cpc6128 and a plus one and it works fine so far.

I'll try to take pictures tomorrow (my daughter will do) because i broke my left wrist, and it becomes hard to solder with one hand  :'( :'(
I will solder now the 9 remaining as fast as possible, and iwait to receive my gal programmer.
Ouch. I hope that your wrist heals quickly, no rush..... so long as one of those 9 has my name on it ;)


Craig

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Munchausen on 22:20, 18 April 15
It should be a little slower but i will solder with my teeth  :laugh:

I'm going to send PM for the 1st batch watch your PMboxes ;-)

Hope your hand heals quickly!

Looking forward to my PM and multiface! :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 11:15, 19 April 15
Please, can you post here some pictures from your multiface 2 mx4 finished version?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 12:49, 19 April 15
HI,
no problem , here are the pics.
If you want something more specific just ask  ;D
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Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TotO on 13:34, 19 April 15
How many Amps does the board use?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 14:03, 19 April 15
I didn't measure it, but no more than original i think it is almost the same components, just the package is changing for smd.

I will measure it  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: radu14m on 16:11, 19 April 15
Looking great !!!
My mx4 slots are already filled on my cpc, time to  go mx8  :P
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 16:14, 19 April 15
Looking great !!!
My mx4 slots are already filled on my cpc, time to  go mx8  :P
ditto! It's great isn't it? ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 13:23, 20 April 15
Good job.
Last precision, does it work on mother 4x with : (all connected)
-Playcity
-X-mem
-X-mass
&
Multiface 2


Or must i connect multiface 2 mx4 alone?

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 15:42, 20 April 15
Good job.
Last precision, does it work on mother 4x with : (all connected)
-Playcity
-X-mem
-X-mass
&
Multiface 2


Or must i connect multiface 2 mx4 alone?
I can let you know once I get mine.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 17:20, 20 April 15
Good job.
Last precision, does it work on mother 4x with : (all connected)
-Playcity
-X-mem
-X-mass
&
Multiface 2


Or must i connect multiface 2 mx4 alone?

I have  connected : XMem + XMass + MF2. Everything works.
I tested (the 3 connected without power supply on mother X4) :

1)Add Airwolf.rom in rom 03, with RMA in the xmem
2)reset
3) |airwolf from xmem --> runs well
4) Use "stop button" on multiface, "save", "program", "disc" -->new name on disc "airzolf"
5) reset on multiface
6) run "airzolf" --> game running
7) reset multiface, stop multiface, then chose "return" to make the mf2 invisible
8) run "airzolf" it doesn't work because the mf2 is invisible !!!! (normal)
9) reset mf2 , the mf2 is visible again
10) run "airzolf" --> works again...

Guess what  ;D ;D ;D ;D It seems to work all together for now. But i'm sure guys you will find something because i can't test everything i think.


Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:23, 21 April 15
Just received my new programmer... works fine, time to send the first batch ;-)
I'm going to order for the second batch.
Now i'm sure the batch is 100% functionnal, and due to the lot of reservation, i'm going to ask payment in advance.

Delay will be 4-5 weeks for the second batch.
Payment should be done until May 1st.

Shipment of the first batch will begins Friday ;-)

 ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 17:43, 24 April 15
Hi everybody.

First shipment ready to go...  ;D
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Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Ast on 19:28, 24 April 15
Fine  :P
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 20:01, 24 April 15
Yippee :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 20:48, 24 April 15
OK, Now a question.....


Once my MF2+ arrives I hope to start doing yet more Cart Conversions. this time I'll modify the process a little.


1. Load the game on the Plus.
2. if controls are customisable set the game up to be fully 'joypad + P' compatible
3. Freeze and save the game to disk.
4. Use anti Multiface to create a loader than does not require an MF2 present
5. Convert to DSK
6. Convert to cart with @arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) 's tool.


Now the question....
Is there a way to load a multiface saved image without the screen distortion during load, or at least hide the screen (all black) until the game is fully loaded?


if not then so be it, I guess I will just create ugly carts!


I also plan on coding a simple Basic Joystick controlled menu for the DIZZY games, to create a couple of DIZZY Compilation carts, one for the 7 games, and one for the spinoffs. This menu will be in basic so don't expect too much -   No snazzy colours or rasters


Any thoughts on the Multiface loading plan let me know. (Remembering I am no coder - Unless you mean Basic)


Craig
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 23:52, 24 April 15
I like your project, but can't help you sorry  :-[ my skills in programming are various, but not on CPC and specially assembler  :-[

OK, Now a question.....


Once my MF2+ arrives I hope to start doing yet more Cart Conversions. this time I'll modify the process a little.


1. Load the game on the Plus.
2. if controls are customisable set the game up to be fully 'joypad + P' compatible
3. Freeze and save the game to disk.
4. Use anti Multiface to create a loader than does not require an MF2 present
5. Convert to DSK
6. Convert to cart with @arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) 's tool.


Now the question....
Is there a way to load a multiface saved image without the screen distortion during load, or at least hide the screen (all black) until the game is fully loaded?


if not then so be it, I guess I will just create ugly carts!


I also plan on coding a simple Basic Joystick controlled menu for the DIZZY games, to create a couple of DIZZY Compilation carts, one for the 7 games, and one for the spinoffs. This menu will be in basic so don't expect too much -   No snazzy colours or rasters


Any thoughts on the Multiface loading plan let me know. (Remembering I am no coder - Unless you mean Basic)


Craig
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 14:30, 28 April 15
Hi there,


The MF2 repro came home, and all I can say is that it's a fine job, good work Talrek! And thank you!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 14:31, 28 April 15
Got it already? Lucky bastard :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:39, 28 April 15
he hé
he is from France ;-) you sould receive yours soon  :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 20:05, 28 April 15
Heh :D Not worrying, just anxious :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 14:13, 29 April 15
Hi !
it is just to remind that in two days the order for the second batch will be closed.

 :)
Some people declared they were interrested weeks ago, and i don't have any response.

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: wmsteele on 14:35, 29 April 15
Hi, I would be interested in one if you have any spare from this batch?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: fatbob on 15:16, 29 April 15
I would also be interested in one if there are any left.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 23:01, 29 April 15
@wmsteele (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1150) and @fatbob (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=508) : PM Sent
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 02:35, 30 April 15
OK The MF II remake arrived today. And a wonderfully well made piece of kit it is too. Oddness however is that although it works perfectly on my 6128 with Tape Mod, it does not work on my Expanded 464plus


In theory these 2 machine are identical - Both have 128k, Both have Disc Interfaces, both have tape interfaces. But on my 464 plus when hiding the MF II and returning to Basic, |tape or run" will both crash the machine, or reboot it.


On the 6128plus this does not happen. No biggie as my original Multiface 2 works fine on the 464plus, and the Remake can be used to load, it just cannot be hidden. Most odd!!


Now to work out how to copy Anti Multiface accross and make the first Speccy-port-cart-port CPR file. I am going with Uridium, because it all loads into 64k so will work with AntiMultiface and hopefully then make a workable GX cart.


Wish me luck


Craig.

[/size][size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 03:26, 30 April 15
OK The MF II remake arrived today. And a wonderfully well made piece of kit it is too. Oddness however is that although it works perfectly on my 6128 with Tape Mod, it does not work on my Expanded 464plus


In theory these 2 machine are identical - Both have 128k, Both have Disc Interfaces, both have tape interfaces. But on my 464 plus when hiding the MF II and returning to Basic, |tape or run" will both crash the machine, or reboot it.


On the 6128plus this does not happen. No biggie as my original Multiface 2 works fine on the 464plus, and the Remake can be used to load, it just cannot be hidden. Most odd!!


Now to work out how to copy Anti Multiface accross and make the first Speccy-port-cart-port CPR file. I am going with Uridium, because it all loads into 64k so will work with AntiMultiface and hopefully then make a workable GX cart.


Wish me luck


Craig.
hmm so far bad news. Anti multiface seems to dislike pluses, and does not work. OK bed time now. Will dig out a CPC tomorrow.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 12:25, 30 April 15
OK The MF II remake arrived today. And a wonderfully well made piece of kit it is too. Oddness however is that although it works perfectly on my 6128 with Tape Mod, it does not work on my Expanded 464plus


In theory these 2 machine are identical - Both have 128k, Both have Disc Interfaces, both have tape interfaces. But on my 464 plus when hiding the MF II and returning to Basic, |tape or run" will both crash the machine, or reboot it.


On the 6128plus this does not happen. No biggie as my original Multiface 2 works fine on the 464plus, and the Remake can be used to load, it just cannot be hidden. Most odd!!


Now to work out how to copy Anti Multiface accross and make the first Speccy-port-cart-port CPR file. I am going with Uridium, because it all loads into 64k so will work with AntiMultiface and hopefully then make a workable GX cart.


Wish me luck


Craig.



Interresting...
On the original MF2 what is the eprom version ? is it 8B ?

Both devices should be similar... may be there are other differencies between your "Regular" cpc+ and your "Extra" 464+
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 12:39, 30 April 15
The eprom in my real plus mf2 is 78. I swapped the eproms and it made no difference. Like I said no biggie.

The big issue now will be to get antimultiface working so I can try some more gx conversions.

I might remove my acid inside board from the 464 plus. Does anyone have a spare plus cart slot riser?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 13:37, 30 April 15
Interresting...
On the original MF2 what is the eprom version ? is it 8B ?

Both devices should be similar... may be there are other differencies between your "Regular" cpc+ and your "Extra" 464+

There's nothing extra on Craigs 464+ that would break compatibility with the MF2, it just has the extra 64K and the floppy circuitry added, so essentially it's a standard 6128+.

@Craig: I'm pretty sure I included a disable jumper on the ACID inside PCB. You just need to move this jumper to revert to the original state.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 13:54, 30 April 15
There's nothing extra on Craigs 464+ that would break compatibility with the MF2, it just has the extra 64K and the floppy circuitry added, so essentially it's a standard 6128+.

@Craig: I'm pretty sure I included a disable jumper on the ACID inside PCB. You just need to move this jumper to revert to the original state.

Bryce.
I'll take a look next time I have the 464 in pieces.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 13:57, 30 April 15
Yup, the jumper is there. This is your PCB: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:AcidInside1.png (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:AcidInside1.png)

You could even add an external switch instead of the jumper if you want /need to switch it regularly.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 14:01, 30 April 15
Yup, the jumper is there. This is your PCB: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:AcidInside1.png (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:AcidInside1.png)

You could even add an external switch instead of the jumper if you want /need to switch it regularly.

Bryce.
;) thanks Dr @Bryce
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: wmsteele on 14:52, 30 April 15
Hi, I would be interested in one if you have any spare from this batch?

Payment sent :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 11:37, 02 May 15
Second batch closed  :)

 
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 19:05, 03 May 15
Waiting for the postman... :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 19:21, 03 May 15
You have to be very very very very patient... Second batch is shipped in around 5 weeks.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 19:25, 03 May 15
Oh well I'll be twiddling my thumbs till then I guess :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 12:34, 07 May 15
My MF2 clone has turned up this morning. Does the EPROM need covering over to prevent it getting erased?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 13:43, 07 May 15
Yes,
obviously i have forgotten to do that ....  ::)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 13:51, 07 May 15
Yes,
obviously i have forgotten to do that ....  ::)


Any particular material I should use? Does the chip get hot?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 13:53, 07 May 15
No, just use some black rubber tape for example, or adhesive paper just to hide the window.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 02:37, 09 May 15
Works like a dream. Anyone have any ideas for an easy project to build a case for it? Mine is currently hanging out the back of the CPC sitting on my +3 keyboard. Not ideal.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 02:37, 09 May 15
No, just use some black rubber tape for example, or adhesive paper just to hide the window.


Square of a paper label, square of gaffer and square of a paper label on top. Just to be sure.  ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:43, 28 May 15
Ok here some news  :D
I have all parts and almost ended all boards  :D
I start send the first MF2 clone Monday, i now have to test them all !!!  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:14, 28 May 15
Ok here some news  :D
I have all parts and almost ended all boards  :D
I start send the first MF2 clone Monday, i now have to test them all !!!  :)
hey, what.... I got my mf2 remake a while ago.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:37, 29 May 15
hey, what.... I got my mf2 remake a while ago.

I mean the first of the second batch  :laugh:
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: jrodriguezv on 09:24, 30 May 15

Ok here some news  :D
I have all parts and almost ended all boards  :D
I start send the first MF2 clone Monday, i now have to test them all !!!  :)

Good news! :-)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 16:36, 31 May 15
Things were going too easily  :'( :'(

I must have a problem with a component and i don't know which one....  :(
I'm doubting about the GALs...  and may be the LS670 or LS365 but i find hardto believe that all LS are bad....

Well... does everybody knows about incompatibility issues between GAL16V8D-15LP and GAL16V8B-10LP (which were the ones in the first batch)
Also do you have any idea to test a 74LS670 ?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: gerald on 17:57, 31 May 15
I must have a problem with a component and i don't know which one....  :(
I'm doubting about the GALs...  and may be the LS670 or LS365 but i find hardto believe that all LS are bad....

Well... does everybody knows about incompatibility issues between GAL16V8D-15LP and GAL16V8B-10LP (which were the ones in the first batch)
Also do you have any idea to test a 74LS670 ?
GAL16V8D-15LP are just slower than GAL16V8B-10LP, it may be a problem.
Do you still have one card from the 1st batch ? If so just swap the component on socket from batch 1 to batch 2 and check who is not working.
Also double check that you did put the right GAL on the right socket.
For the smd ones, no easy solution.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:23, 31 May 15
GAL16V8D-15LP are just slower than GAL16V8B-10LP, it may be a problem.
Do you still have one card from the 1st batch ? If so just swap the component on socket from batch 1 to batch 2 and check who is not working.
Also double check that you did put the right GAL on the right socket.
For the smd ones, no easy solution.

Good idea, but i didn't kept one for me   ::)
I don't know for the speed since J.Leandro says wrote in the file he tested successfully with a 16V8-25LP
Well i asked someone who bought it in France (post is faster), i'm waiting for the answer ... May be if he lends me a MF2 clone for 1-2 weeks ;-) it will be great.

Of course there is a reward  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 15:28, 05 June 15
Hi, good news. I found the problem. It was really stupid... 470kohms smd resistor instead of 470ohms... I feel really stupid.
Sorry for the delay, just a couple of days before shipping. Just the time to receive the new resistors
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: skywalky on 20:18, 05 June 15
We can wait a little more. I'm glad you found the problem. Thank you
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 23:14, 05 June 15
So does this mean that I have to exchange a chip on my MF II clone?

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:24, 08 June 15
No,
in fact the problem is the supplier sent me 470Kohms instead of 470Ohms SMDs.
It is written so little on the SMD i didn't saw the difference between 4700 and 4703....

First batch has no problem ;-)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 18:27, 08 June 15
Damn supplier!!! I'm sorry to hear that this makes struggles for you. Thumbs up for your great work.  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: skywalky on 17:00, 10 June 15
I want to thank Talrek for your help. Thanks to you I have the MX4 Transtape now. And TotO for the MX4 Template. I make a little batch on a spanish forum. Waiting now for the Multiface II.
(http://i.imgur.com/85JzcDp.jpg)
Comparing sizes  ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:44, 10 June 15
That's great you did an amazing job !!!

BTW i received the correct parts, so i started to ship multiface II Yesterday ;-)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:28, 16 June 15
Today is the day !!!!!!!
I sent the last MF2 clone  8) 8)

No more to send.
I have some more in stock, and then it will be totally over :-)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 13:24, 17 June 15
If you don't buy one of the remaining ones, don't start moaning in 6 months time when you are bidding twice the price for a 30 year old untested Multiface 2 on Ebay!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Gryzor on 13:31, 17 June 15
Yay! I guess I'll have mine in a couple of weeks, tops :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 14:34, 17 June 15
If you don't buy one of the remaining ones, don't start moaning in 6 months time when you are bidding twice the price for a 30 year old untested Multiface 2 on Ebay!

Only twice the price?? I intend putting my original on ebay and getting at least 10 times the price from some rich Spanish collector. (Or if someone here offers me a reasonable price it's gone too :D )

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TotO on 14:42, 17 June 15
It is common to find it in the 35€/70€ range. (I bought mine for less, 2 years ago)
By the way, the MX4 version is new, so probably more reliable.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 15:20, 17 June 15
The only thing I've ever seen to be unreliable on real Multifaces were the crap buttons which tend to fall apart, the rest should last forever.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 21:06, 17 June 15
It is common to find it in the 35€/70€ range. (I bought mine for less, 2 years ago)
By the way, the MX4 version is new, so probably more reliable.


Yeah, a 30 years old EPROM is such a thing, on a bad day and with a bad moon rising...  :o
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 22:38, 17 June 15
Not to mention that the GAL used in the Multiface repro (or the PAL in the original design) are specified for 20 years data retention. After that, one day, they will be gone.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 22:54, 17 June 15
I wouldn't pay any attention to those specs. They are absolute minimum lifespans to cover their ass. In reality they will most likely still be ok after 50 years.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 00:04, 18 June 15
Yeah well we'll see ;)
Like those game cratridge from the NES era, most of them still have their battery powered memory still working today (25-30 years after or so).
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 00:22, 18 June 15
I have one of the very first flash chips that came out. I got it around 1988/9 and recorded some data on it. I can still read the data today and it's never been re-written.

Bryce.

Correction: Just found it and the date stamp is 1991. But I can still read it :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 00:54, 18 June 15
Flash is not EPROM!  ;) [nb]Suppliers give 10 year guarantee for holding data
EPROM-Speicher | elektro-lexikon.de (http://www.elektro-lexikon.de/e/EPROM.html)[/nb]
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: mrchip on 07:02, 18 June 15
Should get mine soon then, can't wait woohoo
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Apollo on 07:33, 18 June 15
Should get mine soon then, can't wait woohoo

Same here  ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: skywalky on 09:25, 18 June 15
Multiface II is coming!  ;D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 10:43, 18 June 15
Flash is not EPROM!  ;)

Correct. EPROMs hold their data much longer than flash. I have EPROMs from the 70's that still work fine. Eitherway, he was talking about PALs which are neither flash nor EPROM. The point I was making is that manufacturers state the minimum life expectancy so if they say 20 years, the part could still easily work fine for 50 years or more.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: The Last Bandit on 11:11, 18 June 15
Received mine a few days ago, works fine :)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 20:09, 18 June 15
Ok Bryce. I know you have to be right. Shall it be.  8)  Back to topic now... it's good to have a *NEW* MF-II. And it looks great anyway!  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: mrchip on 13:00, 20 June 15
Arrived this morning and works perfectly   ;D a really big thank you to Talrek for doing such an awesome job.   :) :) :)             
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 17:52, 21 June 15
Hi there,
Yes indeed Talrek did a great job!


I found today that the MFII doesn't work with the Firmware 3.15, anyone else got the same result? I assume the original MFII would do the same, I didn't dig it out to check however.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 17:56, 21 June 15
Mine works fine with fw 3.15. So long as I use the correct ROM for either plus amsdos or old gen amsdos/parados
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 18:11, 21 June 15
Ok I'll look into it, strange because it works perfectly with the X-Mem and internal CPC firmware (or alone on the expansion bus), but crashes the cpc as soon as the button is pused when FW3.15 is enabled.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 18:22, 21 June 15
Hmm, on a mother4x? How is it powered?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 19:24, 21 June 15
I tried both external PSU and no external PSU, same result. Anyway this is just the X-Mem and MFII. Same result on my 6128+: MFII works fine except when FW3.15 is enabled. Symptoms are: when the MF2 button is pressed, CPC freezes (nothing else happens).
I don't see it being PSU related. If I boot on the FW3.15, then (while CPC is running) switch the X-Mem switch to Internal Firmware, then the Mf2 works fine. So I thinks it crashes when it tries to access the 3.15 firmware on the X-Mem...


The MX4 can be ruled out also, as I tried with an edge connector ---> double 50 pin female cable and the result is the same.


Btw I have 0E firmware in the MFII, what is yours? (pop up the Mf2 menu, then press f0 it should display checksum).
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:34, 21 June 15
If you have a plus, have you tried with a FW 3.15 cartridge?


I no longer use the XMEM on my plus. I found it behaved wierdly and be VERY temperamental to power supplies.


I did get it stable using a PC Power supply for everything, the Mother4x, Plus, and external floppy drive / hxc.


However since I find the Symbiface II just works with any powersupply and offers more functionality (RTC and PS/2 mouse) then I have swapped back.


I still have the Mother4x attached, and have the MF2 remake, Playcity and MiniBooster in it.


The 464Plus, Symbiface II and Mother4x are all powered from the PCPower supply.
The HxC / and external floppy drive are both powered from the Monitor supply.


So far not a single crash lockup or failled boot. I am happy as larry LOL


I no longer have lower rom support on the expansion, but as I have a c4cpc I can use FW 3.15 as a CPR in that.


ROMAN 1.0 is a symbiface II rom manager tool and with the FW 3.15 expansion rom in slot 1 of the Symbiface II the Silicon Disc etc all work as they did with the xmem.


Craig
 
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 01:07, 22 June 15
Good point, I'll try with the fw3.15 CPR and report back.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: gerald on 10:49, 22 June 15
XMEM in boot mode and multiface II replace the internal lower ROM. Using both at the same time = ROM clash.
It is the same issue as replacing the internal AMSDOS with an external one.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 10:51, 22 June 15
That would explain it then.... Use a fw 3.15 cart instead and switch the xmem lower ROM off.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: dxs on 13:44, 22 June 15
Hi Gerald, Hi CraigsBar,
Actually I was thinking about something along those lines, but not having looked into it deeper I didn't know if there was a local disable line on the X-Mem regarding the Lower ROM.
So everything should be working fine with the cart then.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 13:46, 22 June 15
Hi Gerald, Hi CraigsBar,
Actually I was thinking about something along those lines, but not having looked into it deeper I didn't know if there was a local disable line on the X-Mem regarding the Lower ROM.
So everything should be working fine with the cart then.
Mine is ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: jrodriguezv on 18:05, 22 June 15
Received mine. Didn't have time to test it yet.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Phantomz on 21:10, 22 June 15
I got mine today too.

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag149/Phantomz/MultiFace%20II%20clone_zps0b0vy2of.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Phantomz/media/MultiFace%20II%20clone_zps0b0vy2of.jpg.html)

Thanks @talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195)   :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: remax on 21:16, 22 June 15
Received mine 3 days ago. Tested it today. Works like a charm (of course i have experienced the clash with xmem). Thanks !

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5 en utilisant Tapatalk

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 00:21, 23 June 15
I got mine today too.

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag149/Phantomz/MultiFace%20II%20clone_zps0b0vy2of.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Phantomz/media/MultiFace%20II%20clone_zps0b0vy2of.jpg.html)

Thanks @talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195)   :D


How did you do the Dual Version mod. Any chance of that being made available as I need that too.


Craig

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Phantomz on 00:43, 23 June 15

How did you do the Dual Version mod. Any chance of that being made available as I need that too.


Craig

I asked talrek for both roms when I purchased the Multiface Clone as I knew that I would need both versions, he asked me if I would like a single rom with a switch, so I said yes.

I paid a bit extra and purchased it like this, forward thinking  ;)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 00:47, 23 June 15
Shit! And he knew I would be ROM swapping :( and chance of a retrofit @talrek?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 09:18, 23 June 15
Yes if y ou ask me so gently. Problem was I had a few switches and eproms, so I couldn't build a lot of dual eproms.
Since, I bought some, so I can make dual if you want.

Envoyé de mon HTC One en utilisant Tapatalk

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 09:48, 23 June 15
Yes if y ou ask me so gently. Problem was I had a few switches and eproms, so I couldn't build a lot of dual eproms.
Since, I bought some, so I can make dual if you want.

Envoyé de mon HTC One en utilisant Tapatalk
Perfect. How much for the change. Pm me your address and I post it back :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: 00WReX on 12:33, 25 June 15
Hi talrek, the multiface arrived safely today.
It survived the trip all the way to Australia no problem  :D

Cheers,
Shane
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: wmsteele on 14:23, 25 June 15
My unit arrived a few weeks back (I was on holiday), tested last night and it works perfectly  :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:45, 25 June 15
Perfect. How much for the change. Pm me your address and I post it back :)
Thanks to @talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) I now have a Modified MF II with a toggle switch to flick between CPC Classic/ParaDOS and Amstrad Plus versions of the Eprom.


I made a little adaptor out of a spare Eprom socket I had lying around. So the mod is completely reversible (Remove the Adaptor and reinsert the original Eprom.


The only change I needed to make was a little trimming of the Socket on the PCB to make way for the switch underneath the new Socket adaptor and the new Dual Eprom. See the photos below if this is not clear.



Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 23:50, 25 June 15
Thanks to @talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) I now have a Modified MF II with a toggle switch to flick between CPC Classic/ParaDOS and Amstrad Plus versions of the Eprom.


I made a little adaptor out of a spare Eprom socket I had lying around. So the mod is completely reversible (Remove the Adaptor and reinsert the original Eprom.


The only change I needed to make was a little trimming of the Socket on the PCB to make way for the switch underneath the new Socket adaptor and the new Dual Eprom. See the photos below if this is not clear.
Your modification is very well done. Congratulations you've done a great job, very clean.



Envoyé de mon HTC One en utilisant Tapatalk

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 02:22, 26 June 15
Your modification is very well done. Congratulations you've done a great job, very clean.(http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji122.png) (http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji122.png) (http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji122.png) (http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji122.png)



Envoyé de mon HTC One en utilisant Tapatalk
I'm glad you approve :) many thanks for the Eprom and wiring details. That will save me a lot of rom swapping and having to look after those delicate pins.

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 22:49, 26 June 15
Hey Guys'n'Gals,

By accident I found the Source Code of the Multiface II. So enjoy the weekend and have a look on it. It's on the attached DSK[nb]Oh shit! I can't attach DSKs!!![/nb]. Ok, all again... its on the attached ZIPed DSK file.

The DSK is in Vortex Format, so you can read it with any 80 Track DS drive and a good DOS like X-DDOS, VaraDOS or VDOS.

On the DSK you will find a lot of stuff which is not in public yet, so have fun!  :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:16, 28 June 15
Hi Everybody, I have a problem my last eproms are faulty, so no more dual eproms  :'( :'(
Does anyone have some to sell to me ? it is 27c128, it would be very much appreciated ;-)

Just PM me !!!  :D

btw i'm thinking about making a multiface II clone V1.1 with a switch on the card , to select either CPC or CPC+ version. I don't know why i didn't do that in first !!!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: arnoldemu on 20:57, 28 June 15
Is the source code this one:???

http://www.cpctech.org.uk/docs/multface.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/docs/multface.asm)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 21:03, 28 June 15
Hi Everybody, I have a problem my last eproms are faulty, so no more dual eproms  :'( :'(
Does anyone have some to sell to me ? it is 27c128, it would be very much appreciated ;-)

Just PM me !!!  :D


Hmmm, 27C128 are getting rarer these days. I could possibly spare 1 or 2 from my stock, but that's about it. If you can use 27C512 instead I can probably spare 50 or 60 of them :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 21:26, 28 June 15
27C128, 27C256 or 27C512 i can make the files to fit in. No problem ;-)

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:23, 28 June 15
Hmmm, 27C128 are getting rarer these days. I could possibly spare 1 or 2 from my stock, but that's about it. If you can use 27C512 instead I can probably spare 50 or 60 of them :)

Bryce.

27c128's Rare? I never knew, I've got Hundreds praps i shoudl put them on Ebay!... If you want some just ask.


Craig


Edit: I just had a count up of my Immediately accessible straws... 10 straws, each with 13 eproms, and 1 Straw of 11. OK Not hundreds, *just* 141.


All Brand spanking new AMD 27c128 chips never programmed and ready to go.

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Bryce on 10:31, 29 June 15
With "getting rarer" I meant that the normal suppliers don't stock them anymore. Most IC suppliers used to start at 27C128, but now the smallest them seem to sell is 27C512.
If you've got that many, then sell some to Talrek. :)

Bryce.

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: CraigsBar on 11:20, 29 June 15
I'd give them to any of the hardware guys here. Just keep one straw for myself. So if anyone needs any 27c128's just let me know
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 19:04, 29 June 15
Is the source code this one: ???

http://www.cpctech.org.uk/docs/multface.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/docs/multface.asm)


This comment somehow really pisses me off. Since month we all try to get this damn source to make a ROM which runs FOR CPC6128 AND 6128 PLUS.
I did know there is source but couldn't find it all the time. After getting to MUC I found it and posted it here. Now you come up with the source. So you had it all the time and didn't share or what?


If you want to know if it is the same source then COMPARE IT BY YOURSELF.


 >:(
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:45, 29 June 15
@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179): I did not intend to piss you off.

The source I posted is a dissassembled I made in 1996. It can't be re-assembled without many changes and it's only partially commented.

I had it on my original Amstrad webpages.

I didn't know you were looking for this source, I thought you had access to the real original sources which could be re-assembled easily.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: cosa_nostra-6128 on 14:33, 16 July 15
Hello, I present myself , I am from Spain , I learned by chance that talrek has created a clone of multiface II , I am very interested in buying one , be possible ? I apologize for my English use a translator ... greetings
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 18:34, 16 July 15
Hello, I present myself , I am from Spain , I learned by chance that talrek has created a clone of multiface II , I am very interested in buying one , be possible ? I apologize for my English use a translator ... greetings


Then become a member, else you can't get in contact with him.
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 11:25, 17 July 15

Then become a member, else you can't get in contact with him.
Yes that's the best way  :D
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: cosa_nostra-6128 on 11:44, 18 July 15
Hola,ya me he registrado ;)
Hello, I have already registered ;) greetings
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 05:04, 19 July 15
Esta muy bien! Greetings & Welcome! The the home of everything CPC.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: robcfg on 14:46, 19 July 15
Bienvenido!
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 01:38, 20 July 15
Bienvenido!


Ja genau, mein Spanisch ist etwas eingerostet. Deutsch auch...

Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: talrek on 18:54, 20 July 15
Bonjour et Bom Dia
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: robcfg on 19:32, 20 July 15
@TFM Es ist ein wunder das Ich kann immer noch ein wenig Deutsch sprechen XD
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 20:22, 20 July 15
@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179) Es ist ein wunder das Ich kann immer noch ein wenig Deutsch sprechen XD
Un milagro sería si yo hablo alguna vez decente español.  :laugh:


BTW: What's a good Spanish translation for "Disc full". Maybe "Disco lleno"   ?? ?? ?? ?? ?
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: Joseman on 20:32, 20 July 15
What's a good Spanish translation for "Disc full". Maybe "Disco lleno"   ?? ?? ?? ?? ?

correcto
Title: Re: MultiFace II clone
Post by: TFM on 20:33, 20 July 15
Muchas Gracias!