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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: TotO on 20:29, 15 May 16

Title: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 20:29, 15 May 16
The MultiPlay allow to add two controllers on the expansion port.
It is easy to use them from BASIC, with the INP() command.

[attachimg=1]

Each controller port can be set with two inputs modes:
- AMS = Amstrad joystick and GX4000 gamepad
- AMI = Amiga joystick / mouse (and compatible)

Each mouse sensitivity is 200dpi / 4bit acceleration.  (DK'Tronics mouse is 50dpi / 1bit)
Last but not least: Left, Middle and Right buttons are supported.

50Hz games support w/o conflict. It is handled like arcade machines!

You can preorder from CPC Boards (http://www.centpourcent.net/store/c5/CPC_Boards.html) !  8)
Now, we need Lemmings and North & South hacked games.  :P 
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: cpc4eva on 22:35, 15 May 16
was there a link to a web page to purchase ?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 22:39, 15 May 16
was there a link to a web page to purchase ?
I will have to add it to centpourcent.net ...  ;D
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: angelcaio on 00:14, 16 May 16
The MultiPlay allow to add two controllers on the expansion port.
It is easy to use them from BASIC, with the INP() command.

[attachimg=1]

Each controller port can be set with two inputs modes:
- AMS = Amstrad joystick and GX4000 gamepad
- AMI = Amiga joystick / mouse (and compatible)

Each mouse sensitivity is 200dpi / 4bit acceleration.  (DK'Tronics mouse is 50dpi / 1bit)
Last but not least: Left, Middle and Right buttons are supported.

50Hz games support w/o conflict. It is handled like arcade machines!
Now, we need Lemmings and North & South hacked games.  :P
Great. Will work with a atari st mouse? And with an Amigausb-db9 adapter?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 10:20, 16 May 16
An USB to DB9 adapter should work if it is OK with an Amiga. (untested actually)

The choice was made to support natively the Amiga mouse, because it is more easy to find.
So, Atari ST mouse require a "ST to Amiga" adapter to properly work.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Poliander on 11:47, 16 May 16
I bought one of these: Amiga mouse on eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/301932161319)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: angelcaio on 12:49, 16 May 16
I already have a Atari ST mouse.
What do you think of this adapter?
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: gerald on 13:46, 16 May 16
I already have a Atari ST mouse.
What do you think of this adapter?
  AMIGA MOUSE TO ATARI ST / ATARI ST MOUSE TO AMIGA ADAPTER CONVERTER | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992)
The difference between Atari and Amiga mouse is the horizontal/vertical sensors pinout.
You only need to swap the 4 related pins and it seem what this adapter is doing  ;)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 14:13, 16 May 16
The MultiPlay allow to add two controllers on the expansion port.
It is easy to use them from BASIC, with the INP() command.

[attachimg=1]

Each controller port can be set with two inputs modes:
- AMS = Amstrad joystick and GX4000 gamepad
- AMI = Amiga joystick / mouse (and compatible)

Each mouse sensitivity is 200dpi / 4bit acceleration.  (DK'Tronics mouse is 50dpi / 1bit)
Last but not least: Left, Middle and Right buttons are supported.

50Hz games support w/o conflict. It is handled like arcade machines!
Now, we need Lemmings and North & South hacked games.  :P

Super cool board, I will buy one for sure. Problem is that we need a Mother X4 with more ports, something like a Mother X8  :D Mother of God.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Audronic on 14:19, 16 May 16
And Then an 800 Watt PC Power Supply, Small refrigerated cubicle Etc---


Ray
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 14:36, 16 May 16
I already have a Atari ST mouse.
What do you think of this adapter?
  AMIGA MOUSE TO ATARI ST / ATARI ST MOUSE TO AMIGA ADAPTER CONVERTER | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992)
As gerald said, I think it does the job by swapping the required pins.  8)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 14:53, 16 May 16
Super cool board, I will buy one for sure.
Problem is that we need a Mother X4 with more ports, something like a Mother X8  :D Mother of God.
Madre!!!  ;D

 My actual configuration is:
- X-MEM / X-MASS on slots 0 and 1
- MultiPlay / PlayCity on slots 2 and 3

Since I have the HxC / X-MASS, the MiniBooster is not really used at home.
To free space, may be I should release a MotherX2 special board for players, featuring:
- MultiPlay / Playcity slots
- Cartridge slot
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: gerald on 15:06, 16 May 16
To free space, may be I should release a MotherX2 special board for players, featuring:
- MultiPlay / Playcity slots
- Cartridge slot
What about an X-MESS  ;D (merged xmem/xmass)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 15:12, 16 May 16
What about an X-MESS  ;D (merged xmem/xmass)
Sure, it is an idea. ;D (and sound better than X-MAME)

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: CPC_Fan on 19:33, 16 May 16
Definitely interested in buying one of these boards from you Tot0. Just got to wait for some money to come through first...
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: angelcaio on 19:49, 16 May 16
I also want one.   ;D
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: hsimpson on 16:15, 17 May 16
Ordered & paid  ;D .
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: DaDMaN on 16:42, 17 May 16
Ordered & Paid too  :D
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 17:28, 17 May 16
Ordered and paid here as well!  :D
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: trabitboy on 17:29, 17 May 16
Quick noob question ( please hold your tomatoes  8)   ):

for the extra joystick port , software has to be specifically written to support it?
old titles need to be patched ?

On a side note , I was wondering if some people here were powering their MX4 with a usb power supply and adapter ?
( I think I lack power, that's why I have erratic behavior with xmas xmess + joy plugged in ) .
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: angelcaio on 18:17, 17 May 16
I presume: if it works as a joystick can be used as a mouse with SymbOS or Art studio. Is this correct?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 18:26, 17 May 16
Quick noob question ( please hold your tomatoes  8)   ):

for the extra joystick port , software has to be specifically written to support it?
old titles need to be patched ?

On a side note , I was wondering if some people here were powering their MX4 with a usb power supply and adapter ?
( I think I lack power, that's why I have erratic behavior with xmas xmess + joy plugged in ) .

Regarding the PSU, you should power the computer and the X4 with the same power supply. You can just split the output and connect a wire to the computer and another to the board, provided that the PSU is powerful enough  :) .
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Cpcmaniaco on 00:00, 18 May 16
Orderer and pay too.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Audronic on 02:27, 18 May 16
Ordered and Paid as well.

When you say "The board require new programs to be used. Not compatible with old UnPatched games.".
Does that mean all of the "Games" have to be patched (Thousands) ?

Thanks   Ray
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:07, 18 May 16
Ordered and Paid as well.

When you say "The board require new programs to be used. Not compatible with old UnPatched games.".
Does that mean all of the "Games" have to be patched (Thousands) ?

Thanks   Ray

Yes, all games need to be patched that want to use the interface.

But games will continue to work with the built in cpc joystick ;)

So it makes sense to patch two player games like gauntlet, barbarian where clashes would happen between joysticks on normal cpc.
And it makes sense to add mouse support to games and programs that could benefit from it.

No need to patch every game!
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 14:02, 18 May 16
Yes. It is exactly that.  8)
That should allow to play up to 4 players too.

By the way, we are thinking about a Firmware update that should allow to natively support the "MultiPlayCity" combo and use them transparently.
So BASIC and programs using the system will be automaticly retro-compatible by doing nothing more.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Axelay on 17:27, 18 May 16
Must be time to make the two demonstration MultiPlay compatible games available, so I'll present them here.


First up is a modified version of the Megablasters anniversary game with a third "multiplay" control option.  This allows both players to use joystick or pads, but both players must be using controllers on the multiplay ports, and both controllers will need at least two fire buttons, there's no keyboard option to detonate bombs manually with this option.


Second is a little 4 player light cycle game called QuadRaster.  It is 4 player only.  Player 1 must use internal joystick port, player 3 & 4 the multiplay ports.  Player 2 has a choice of keyboard or joystick, but the joystick option is only going to work correctly with an appropriate splitter.  During play you can hold fire to go twice as fast.  I wasnt able to test this one myself, so thanks go to TotO and Mr Lou for the feedback on this game.  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: HAL 6128 on 17:30, 18 May 16
Wow, that is just in time :)
Great to see that!

@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290): Is the board CPCplus compatible?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 17:47, 18 May 16
The MultiPlay must work on all CPC and PLUS.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 22:45, 23 May 16
Hi! Tried to order using Chrome(1) or Explorer(2) using WinXP. But it doesn't work (1, security risc. 2, errors on page). Any idea what to do? (Will try on my laptop tomorrow).
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 23:33, 23 May 16
Hi! Tried to order using Chrome(1) or Explorer(2) using WinXP. But it doesn't work (1, security risc. 2, errors on page). Any idea what to do? (Will try on my laptop tomorrow).

No idea at all...  :-X
Send me an email withyour wishlist!  8)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 23:00, 24 May 16
Done! Will be fun to have real 4 Player games now!  :)  And even 2 Player games can get a nice speed up!  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: cpc4eva on 02:29, 25 May 16
so does that mean if i play CPC ping pong from Konami / Imagine that if i use this device i will be able to play against a friend with a joystick ?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 11:19, 25 May 16
Actually, all old games require to be patched.
With a Firmware update, games using the routines or BASIC may natively work.
Today, two Axelay games (MegaBlaster and QuadRasters) and one Mr_Lu game are compatible.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: angelcaio on 11:24, 25 May 16
Actually, all old games require to be patched.
With a Firmware update, games using the routines or BASIC may natively work.
Today, two Axelay games (MegaBlaster and QuadRasters) and one Mr_Lu game are compatible.
Further. Other software , such as Art Studio, could also work with a mouse with more resolution?

Enviado desde mi H60-L04 mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 11:40, 25 May 16
Yes, if properly patched it should provide a better accuraty.

The expansion was designed to allow 1 or 2 players games using Amiga JOY/MOUSE.
So I can't guaranty that will be a must have for drawing. (untested)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: angelcaio on 13:46, 25 May 16
Thanks, but really i ask for the update of the firmware that you say.  Anyway, how i can to patch a program?  like Art studio, for example.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 20:46, 25 May 16
Thanks, but really i ask for the update of the firmware that you say.  Anyway, how i can to patch a program?  like Art studio, for example.

That's actually pretty simple. Instead of calling an OS routine  you patch it into two simple instructions:

LD BC,TotOs_joystick_and_mouse_port_1
IN A,(BC)

And A has all the nice little direction and fire button bits.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:34, 25 May 16
Yay. Multiplay ordered.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: khaz on 14:50, 27 May 16
That's actually pretty simple. Instead of calling an OS routine  you patch it into two simple instructions:

LD BC,TotOs_joystick_and_mouse_port_1
IN A,(BC)

And A has all the nice little direction and fire button bits.

Is it enough to manage the acceleration?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 15:39, 27 May 16

It is not, because the joystick (and AMX/DK'Tronics) return only 1bit value.
The MultiPlay mice return 4bit values.

Code: [Select]
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y


Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: arnoldemu on 16:02, 27 May 16
It is not, because the joystick (and AMX/DK'Tronics) return only 1bit value.
The MultiPlay mice return 4bit values.

Code: [Select]
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y
Questions:
-  is f990 used for buttons for Mouse A and f991 used for buttons for Mouse B?
In this case is it 123 used or?

- And what is read from F996,F997?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 16:04, 27 May 16
YES! Buttons 1, 2, 3 are the same for joystick and mouse input A/B.
F996 and F997 ports are unused.

About usages:
- Reading from BASIC with 50Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast char pointer with acceleration.
- Reading from ASM with 300Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast pixel pointer with acceleration.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 17:55, 27 May 16
Is it enough to manage the acceleration?


I don't know. But I guess yes, since IMHO it's all joystick compatible.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: gerald on 18:28, 27 May 16
It is not, because the joystick (and AMX/DK'Tronics) return only 1bit value.
The MultiPlay mice return 4bit values.

Code: [Select]
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y

Mouse register X/Y return the offset since the last read. These are 4 bit value with sign extension.
Note also that the X/Y value will saturate if not read for a long time (or if the movement is fast). It will never overflow or wrap.
From a software point of view, just read the port and add its value to your position variable  ;)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 18:38, 27 May 16
From a software point of view, just read the port and add its value to your position variable  ;)


Won't work with negative values since bits 7-4 are always zero. Right?

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: gerald on 18:45, 27 May 16

Won't work with negative values since bits 7-4 are always zero. Right?
No  :D
The 4 values are sign extended to 8 bit, so negative value will have bit7-4 at one. In fact bit 7-4 = bit 3

Just consider them as signed 8 bit, they will just stay between -15 and 14 -16 and 15
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 19:12, 27 May 16
Exactly. I have answered a bit too fast.  :-\
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 19:23, 27 May 16
No  :D
The 4 values are sign extended to 8 bit, so negative value will have bit7-4 at one. In fact bit 7-4 = bit 3

Just consider them as signed 8 bit, they will just stay between -15 and 14

Thanks!!! That's super awesome! So actually this device need no drivers, it's 100% ready to go.  :) :) :)

Now all we need is a nice list of compatible mouses / proportional joysticks.  :) :) :)


EDIT: Just checked the net: Amiga mice are really expensive, it there an cheaper alternative?
EDIT: Also... it there a 3 button mouse we can use? (For hacking AMX Stop Press).

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Scarlettkitten on 20:17, 27 May 16
Preordered and got the right shipping in the end :)





Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 21:46, 27 May 16
20 boards was pre-ordered since. 10 was built. 5 was already sent!  :)
Actually, I'm waiting parts for the next pre-orders...
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: zhulien on 04:31, 30 May 16
is it likely that MultiPlay MX4 will work with AtariVox+ ?


AtariVox+ Speech Synthesizer (https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1045)

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 12:28, 30 May 16
No, it was made to support controllers input not expansions output.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 18:11, 01 June 16
YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE,

I have sent the first MultiPlay boards.
Please, note that you have to take care when you insert the controllers plugs into the MultiPlay connectors.
Some molded plugs (not all) require to force and should damage the board if you not take care about that...

Hold them firmly between fingers when you plug your controllers, CPC turned off.
(from my side, I have done my best with double soldering and strong glue)

THANK YOU.

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 21:26, 01 June 16
YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE,

I have sent the first MultiPlay boards.
Please, note that you have to take care when you insert the controllers plugs into the MultiPlay connectors.
Some molded plugs (not all) require to force and should damage the board if you not take care about that...
Hold them firmly between fingers when you plug your controllers, CPC turned off.
(from my side, I have done my best with double soldering and strong glue)
THANK YOU.

Please use a short cable adapter / cable extension: You plug it into the MultiPlay only once, but can exchange the joysticks as you wish.  :)


Overpriced example:
3M 3 Metre 9ft 10" 9 Pin D Sub Male to Female Serial Data Extension Cable | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-3-METRE-9FT-10-9-PIN-D-SUB-MALE-TO-FEMALE-SERIAL-DATA-EXTENSION-CABLE-/311061017317?hash=item486cae72e5:g:Is8AAOSwGvhT7haU)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 21:35, 01 June 16
Should be fine if it cost not more than MultiPlay itself! :D
Just take care to not use a serial cable but a full 9 pins wired D-SUB.

EDIT:
I should build them fast and not expensive using 9-pins ribbon cable... I will let you know!


Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 22:56, 01 June 16
Having the MultiPlay on the MX8 in a box needs this kind of cables anyway.  ;)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: hsimpson on 13:24, 04 June 16
Shipment of MultiPlay safely arrived.

Thanks a lot TotO :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 19:30, 06 June 16
Hi guys! Since some of you have gotten the first boards, could you do an easy experiment for me please?

When having the MultiPlay connected and other hardware, please do in BASIC:

? inp(&F990),inp(&F991)

And tell the result? Please tell also the CPC model you use and which other hardware you got on the expansion port.

Why do I ask? I want to see if there is interference between MutliPlay and other hardware. (I know there is on one case). Thank you!!!  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: skywalky on 17:39, 08 June 16
Mine arrived yesterday. Thank you
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: HAL 6128 on 16:07, 10 June 16
Mine arrived too! Great!
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 21:37, 10 June 16
@arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) , @Devilmarkus (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=93) , @Executioner (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17) , @Lone (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=886) (alphabetically sorted) : Guys we do need emulator support for the wonderful MultiPlay. Should be super easy to implement this one (compared to other expansion cards).  :) :) :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 21:46, 10 June 16
Don't forget @mahlemiut, as he done a great PlayCity emulation into MESS.  8)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 22:04, 10 June 16
Well, never got MESS running on my hardware, but will give it a new try in soon.  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Scarlettkitten on 21:49, 12 June 16
Mine's arrived, thank you :) <3
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:04, 13 June 16
@arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) , @Devilmarkus (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=93) , @Executioner (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17) , @Lone (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=886) (alphabetically sorted) : Guys we do need emulator support for the wonderful MultiPlay. Should be super easy to implement this one (compared to other expansion cards).  :) :) :)
Arnold has had multiplay emulation since January I believe (excluding mouse which I'll be adding in the next release).


Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Poliander on 21:55, 15 June 16
When having the MultiPlay connected and other hardware, please do in BASIC:

? inp(&F990),inp(&F991)

3   0

Schneider CPC 664 / MotherX4 / X-MASS / X-MEM / MultiPlay MX4 (Amiga mouse connected on first port)

First value changes when moving the mouse. Little mouse test:

10 ? INP(&F990),INP(&F991)
20 GOTO 10

Looks good so far  :) ...oh wouldn't that be nice to have a proper mouse in SymbOS
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 23:22, 15 June 16
3   0

Schneider CPC 664 / MotherX4 / X-MASS / X-MEM / MultiPlay MX4 (Amiga mouse connected on first port)

First value changes when moving the mouse. Little mouse test:


Oh WoW! Are you sure to have the switch set to "Joystick" and not to "Mouse". According to @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) the port &F990 shall not provide values for the mouse, only for the joystick!


Thanks a lot for testing!  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: gerald on 17:59, 16 June 16

Oh WoW! Are you sure to have the switch set to "Joystick" and not to "Mouse". According to @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) the port &F990 shall not provide values for the mouse, only for the joystick!


Thanks a lot for testing!  :)
joystick and mouse uses the same connector, so what you see on the joystick port is the quadrature signal from the mouse. The dedicated mouse I/O is the result of decoding these signals
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 18:26, 16 June 16
joystick and mouse uses the same connector, so what you see on the joystick port is the quadrature signal from the mouse. The dedicated mouse I/O is the result of decoding these signals

Are you sure? This was posted before (Mouses only transfer buttons to F990, but not lower 4 bits). Can somebody please explain that.

F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 18:57, 16 June 16
Sure, gerald is right. The board can't know that you are using a mouse "as joystick" by reading the wrong port.
So, only plug joysticks while you read &F990, &F991 ... And mouse for others.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:06, 16 June 16
Sure, gerald is right. The board can't know that you are using a mouse "as joystick" by reading the wrong port.
So, only plug joysticks while you read &F990, &F991 ... And mouse for others.
So it's also possible to update the mouse registers with joystick directions? :)

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 19:21, 16 June 16
And you can put a DVD into a CD player... The result will be just not as expected.  :-\
Differents address ports exist, because joysticks and mice are plugged to the same connector but not use the same electronic to work.




Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 20:43, 16 June 16
Ok, I see. The data at F990 is a kind of shaddow from the mouse data. Thought there might be a switch on the board to select. but I will see as soon as I will have my unit.


Is there a way to tell from software side if the connected hardware is a joystick or a mouse?

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: zhulien on 17:28, 26 June 16
Hi. Have you sent my order yet? Seems all email attempts to contact you have bounced recently. Julian
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 12:25, 29 June 16
Hi. Have you sent my order yet? Seems all email attempts to contact you have bounced recently. Julian
Yes, it was sent. Please, don't send any email to the "centpourcent" domains name... Only use the paypal address or the contact form.
Thanks.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 11:11, 02 July 16
Here, some informations as I have not the time to create a Wiki page for the board...  :(

Code: [Select]
MULTIPLAY V1.5:
===============


PORTS
-----

F990 = Port A Actions bits
F991 = Port B Actions bits
F992 = Port A Mouse POS-X value
F993 = Port A Mouse POS-Y value
F994 = Port B Mouse POS-X value
F995 = Port B Mouse POS-Y value


ACTION BITS
-----------

bit0: Up
bit1: Down
bit2: Left
bit3: Right
bit4: 1st fire or LMB
bit5: 2nd fire or RMB
bit6: 3rd fire or MMB
bit7: 0


MOUSE BITS
----------

bit0-2: value
bit3-7: sign (all 0 or 1)


MOUSE RESOLUTION
----------------

200 DPI (1 inch move = 200 pixels move)

        ________          ________
A _____|        |________|        |________
            ________          ________       
B _________|        |________|        |________

200DPI |1  |2   |3  |4   |5  |6   |7  |8                                   
 50DPI |1                |2


MOUSE ACCURACY
--------------

4 bit with sign extended to 8bit (-8 to +7). Mouse register X/Y return the offset since the last read.
Value will saturate if not read for a long time or if the movement is too fast. It will not overflow or wrap.

From a software point of view, just read the port and add its value to your position variable.
- Reading from BASIC with 50Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast char pointer with acceleration.
- Reading from ASM with 300Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast pixel pointer with acceleration.


MOUSE NOTE
----------

Proportional Amiga mouse are required to use ports F992 to F995. (switch set on AMI)
Ports F990, F991 are used for the buttons. Other bits will return useless coded quadrature.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 15:26, 21 July 16
I have just received mine!  :D
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 20:34, 21 July 16
Great to ear that. :)
Please, take care to not force when you plug a controller into it...
(hold the connector between the fingers and down twist to remove)

For information, the Rhino's Perfect Pixel software is compatible using the AMI switch with Amiga mouse.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 01:05, 22 July 16
Do not worry, I am going to use an expansion cable with it!  :D On the other hand, I plan to connect an Amiga USB mouse adapter and give it a try with my Logitech optical mouse. I am the first one doing this?  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 10:01, 22 July 16
I don't know... I'm so angry because many boards sent the the two last months without tracking was simply lost.
And, actually I'm not able to build replacement boards as I own 20 PCB waiting for never reiceved CPLD...  :-X
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 10:45, 22 July 16
Well, that is really bad  :(
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: robcfg on 12:18, 22 July 16
Sorry to hear that!


I do really prefer to pay more to get it tracked, precisely to avoid this kind of situtations.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: dxs on 20:04, 22 July 16
Yeah well trouble is that having tracking won't prevent people from stealing your stuff during shipping, and most of the time they won't even give a penny (or cent, or pesos, or ... ;-) ) back when you tell them your stuff has been "lost".
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 00:47, 23 July 16
Yeah well trouble is that having tracking won't prevent people from stealing your stuff during shipping, and most of the time they won't even give a penny (or cent, or pesos, or ... ;-) ) back when you tell them your stuff has been "lost".
With Registered mail you are insured and refund for the chosen value. No problem with that.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: dxs on 11:39, 23 July 16
Indeed but using tracked mail (not registered) they will only refund 3x times the shipping cost, that is: not much.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: robcfg on 15:56, 23 July 16
At least in Spain you can insure the shipment. The only shipments I lost weren't tracked.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 16:46, 23 July 16
Indeed but using tracked mail (not registered) they will only refund 3x times the shipping cost, that is: not much.
Sure. It is why I don't use tracked mail. Registered cost not too much more.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 21:38, 25 July 16
How much money was lost? We should make a fundraiser to compensate for the lost cards (I didn't get one either).  :)




Yeah well trouble is that having tracking won't prevent people from stealing your stuff during shipping, and most of the time they won't even give a penny (or cent, or pesos, or ... ;-) ) back when you tell them your stuff has been "lost".


The problem (imho) is rather matial law than some guys stealing CPC stuff.  >:(
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 23:17, 11 August 16
Hey guys, can somebody please confirm that the MultiPlay Joystick can be used for FutureOS / GianaSisters / CyberChicken. Last update of the OS (in Spanish) can be found here:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/futureos-corner/msg131388/#msg131388

Since I cannot test by myself (card never arrived) I would greatly appreciate any help. And it's easy. Just plug a joystick to the Multiplay, then install and start the OS. Now move the joystick and you should see that the mouse arrow can be moved in the Desktop.

Also CyberChicken and GianaSisters (free download on my homepage) can be used. Please check if they work too.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: zhulien on 01:20, 16 September 16
For those having trouble with reading an Amiga mouse... here is a couple of small examples in BASIC (the same applies in assembly but with greater DPI as the docs say)...


Code: [Select]


TEXT CURSOR:


10 MODE 2:BORDER 0
20 s=1:'sensitivity can also be fractional
30 w=80:h=25
40 x=w*0.5:y=h*0.5
50 LOCATE x,y:PRINT"*":
60 xp=x:yp=y
70 xo=INP(&F994):yo=INP(&F995):a=INP(&F991)
80 IF xo>7 THEN xo=xo-255
90 IF yo>7 THEN yo=yo-255
100 x=x+xo*s
110 y=y+yo*s
120 LOCATE 1,1:IF a AND 16 THEN PRINT"LEFT  " ELSE IF a AND 32 THEN PRINT"RIGHT "ELSE IF a AND 64 THEN PRINT"MIDDLE" ELSE PRINT"      "
130 IF x<1 THEN x=1
140 IF x>w THEN x=w
150 IF y<1 THEN y=1
160 IF y>h THEN y=h
170 IF x<>xp OR y<>yp THEN FRAME:LOCATE xp,yp:PRINT" ";:LOCATE x,y:PRINT"*";
180 GOTO 60


GRAPHICS CURSOR:


10 MODE 2:BORDER 0
20 s=8:'sensitivity can also be fractional
30 w=640:h=400
40 x=w*0.5:y=h*0.5
50 TAG:MOVE x,h-y:PRINT"^";
60 xp=x:yp=y
70 xo=INP(&F994):yo=INP(&F995):a=INP(&F991)
80 IF xo>7 THEN xo=xo-255
90 IF yo>7 THEN yo=yo-255
100 x=x+xo*s
110 y=y+yo*s
120 TAGOFF:LOCATE 1,1:IF a AND 16 THEN PRINT"LEFT  " ELSE IF a AND 32 THEN PRINT"RIGHT "ELSE IF a AND 64 THEN PRINT"MIDDLE" ELSE PRINT"      "
130 IF x<1 THEN x=1
140 IF x>w THEN x=w
150 IF y<1 THEN y=1
160 IF y>h THEN y=h
170 IF x<>xp OR y<>yp THEN FRAME:TAG:MOVE xp,h-yp:PRINT" ";:MOVE x,h-y:PRINT"^";
180 GOTO 60




Hope we get more mouse support in software to come... also you can make a dual mouse game by reading both ports, now that will be interesting...

One thing to note, I treated the bits as a mouse 'speed', it is possible to treat it as a 'speed' or an 'acceleration' - it just depends on whether you cap the speed or not somewhere, i wrote the examples based on speed because when treating it as acceleration, it didn't seem to have a different reading moving the mouse at whatever speed other than slowing down.  Also as acceleration the mouse in graphics mode example, becomes too fiddly/eratic to target anywhere.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:14, 16 September 16
I bet a lot of people didn't know how they process mouse input:

Mouse Ballistics (https://blog.codinghorror.com/mouse-ballistics/)

Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Bryce on 12:13, 16 September 16
I had to do a lot of tweaking in this regard when I designed the USB AMX Mouse. Firstly because the CPC resolution is rather low compared to modern screens, so a 1:1 Mickey to pixel ratio would have meant that a 5mm movement was all it took to move across the entire screen (not good). Secondly, tiny movements need to be filtered out to stop the mouse pointer from permanently jittering (also not good). A further problem is that the joystick port is not interrupt driven, it's being polled and the read rate is variable. It took a lot of trial and error to get the mouse feeling like it should be.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 17:28, 16 September 16
I had to do a lot of tweaking in this regard when I designed the USB AMX Mouse. Firstly because the CPC resolution is rather low compared to modern screens, so a 1:1 Mickey to pixel ratio would have meant that a 5mm movement was all it took to move across the entire screen (not good). Secondly, tiny movements need to be filtered out to stop the mouse pointer from permanently jittering (also not good). A further problem is that the joystick port is not interrupt driven, it's being polled and the read rate is variable. It took a lot of trial and error to get the mouse feeling like it should be.

Bryce.


In the German forum we had a discussion about this, your mouse behaves very slow compared to other joystick solutions. However if seems also to depend which software you're using. So I'm curious: What did you use as reference? (I ask because it may be good to have one reference in common for all mice).  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: zhulien on 04:59, 17 September 16
Im going to play around with the idea of using the max speed as an acceleration for the previous speed instead so that at slower speeds we can get pixel accuracy but faster speeds we can jump across the screen quickly... might not be practical but will see what happens.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 08:38, 17 September 16
You can increase the speed by using a 300Hz interrupt.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Bryce on 14:14, 17 September 16

In the German forum we had a discussion about this, your mouse behaves very slow compared to other joystick solutions. However if seems also to depend which software you're using. So I'm curious: What did you use as reference? (I ask because it may be good to have one reference in common for all mice).  :)

Yes, it's deliberately slowed down. My (subjective) reference was OCP Art Studio and AMX Art. My mouse adapter can be sped up to ridiculous speeds (entire screen width with 2mm movement), but it's unusable then. My test was: What's the best speed to be able to draw accurately with these art packages and use the menus. The mouse speed also depends on how often the software is reading the port and how it interprets the pulses, so any joystick port mouse will vary depending on the software.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TFM on 01:31, 18 September 16
Sure, very interesting actually - so you can adapt your mouse to software. Nice feature.  :)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Bryce on 11:55, 18 September 16
Sure, very interesting actually - so you can adapt your mouse to software. Nice feature.  :)

Yes, in fact I was considering updating the firmware so that the sensitivity could be set by the user via the mouse.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 14:14, 23 October 16
The Multiplay is a cursed expansion.  :o

In May/June, I have built 20 boards and sent them.
12 was lost, 2 should return to me... And I'm not able to build more because in tree months:
- two 20pcs CPLD orders was lost
- one 20pcs PCB order was lost
- one 20pcs DB9 order was lost

I no more own it because I have sent mine to Rhino some months ago.
Definitively, if you have this board at home... Take care!  :-\
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: dragon on 14:29, 23 October 16
What site are you using to send the packets Toto?.


One time when i buy in france the amstrad gun in eBay. Until i wait two weeks, i go to eBay to ask the seller where is my packet. Then i found and pre-made  repond of the the seller.


And It send me to a strange site i never heard to It. Then i view my packet. Was a week ago in a traveler agency jajajaja.


Its sound crazy. Buts maybe this site can be an alternative  to the lost packet to the users depend of the country. I felt strange where i  go to the travel agency and say "is my packet here?.


But yeah, my packet was awaiting me in the travel agency perfect jaja.


https://www.mondialrelay.fr (https://ww.mondialrelay.fr)



Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 16:25, 23 October 16
No, my problems are more X-Files classified because I have sent items without issue at the same peoples too.
I have ordered parts to the same sellers before and after too... But, if MultiPlay related, it was lost.  :-\
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: dragon on 18:51, 23 October 16
Add in the shop mini a8 traker


Then if he lost, the user can go gps coordinate  localization with a gx4000 stick in one hand.


 :D
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Bryce on 10:32, 24 October 16
The Multiplay is a cursed expansion.  :o

In May/June, I have built 20 boards and sent them.
12 was lost, 2 should return to me... And I'm not able to build more because in tree months:
- two 20pcs CPLD orders was lost
- one 20pcs PCB order was lost
- one 20pcs DB9 order was lost

I no more own it because I have sent mine to Rhino some months ago.
Definitively, if you have this board at home... Take care!  :-\

Maybe now you understand why it's wise to allow for these things in the price of the device?

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 11:24, 24 October 16
Maybe now you understand why it's wise to allow for these things in the price of the device?
I have took care to have insurance to be refunt about problems. And that not made hardware cost twice.
My prices are definitively well adjusted since 3 years now, and I have shared this story because it look scary.  :-\
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Bryce on 11:55, 24 October 16
Good to know. It's good to have low priced hardware, but not at the expense of the person building it.

Bryce.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: zhulien on 09:31, 09 November 16
does that mean no more MX4 boards will be made?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: zhulien on 09:31, 09 November 16
i think the MX4 expansion is a nice one, especially the ability to use the Amiga Mouses, for me that is the main thing but the MX4 together with the special 'normal' dual joystick adapters for CPC you then get up to 4 non-conflicting joysticks for CPC so games like bomberman can be more viable.  Then... imagine if you also allowed network players via the internet also?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 09:35, 09 November 16
That only means the MultiPlay will be delayed while I will not receive all the parts to build them.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: dragon on 12:07, 09 November 16
I Think the multiplay is a good idea, But at the finish he have the same problem of the normal port joysticks. The number of buttons. Many games use more that two/three buttons/keys.


I always think the best joysticks for the cpc are the snes with 8 buttons.


A great expansión could be a adapter to these joysticks.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 12:46, 09 November 16
I disagree... Most of the CPC games use only 1 button. Some 2. Few 3. (mainly require to be redefined)
The MultiPlay can support a SNES hacked controller. But...
Before doing what, please code a great game with a gameplay using more than 2 buttons and we can speek! 8)
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: Skunkfish on 11:51, 10 November 16
Streetfighter II - CPC edition would make my dreams come true if it supports a SNES controller via the MultiPlay!
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: dragon on 12:56, 10 November 16
I disagree... Most of the CPC games use only 1 button. Some 2. Few 3. (mainly require to be redefined)
The MultiPlay can support a SNES hacked controller with UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, START, SELECT, A, B, X (or RT), Y (or LT) buttons.
But... Before doing what, please code a great game with a gameplay using more than 2 buttons and we can speek! 8)

Yeah, i think in the terms of controlling with joystick all keys of the game.For example indiana jones and fate of atlantis appears (manual is in french) need more that three buttons. So at finish with joystick you can't separate from the keyboard. I mean all include quit pause etc.. (select+start).

Anyway many games don't permit assing button 2 to the joystick even with using redefine function of the game. I asume is not the case of multiplay if you send it to another keyboard lines.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 13:45, 10 November 16
The MultiPlay don't use key lines but a data buffer for each controller.
So, it require new or patched games/programs to deal with it.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: HAL 6128 on 23:58, 02 January 17

@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290)
Am I right that the Amiga Mouse modus of the Multiplay has following pinout configuration (see picture below)?
Just a thought: Would it be possible to use this configuration together with an AMX mouse (without the joystick emulation interface) and changing some wiring?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 00:20, 03 January 17
Picture?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: HAL 6128 on 01:05, 03 January 17

ups, forgot the picture at the last post...
[attachimg=1]


I meant without the interface. Only the mouse. Your board is providing 5V for the mouse. Could it translate the signals from the mouse into the right signal for the CPC?
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: TotO on 01:23, 03 January 17
I don't know how work the AMX mouse without its interface. Like an ST or Amiga mouse?
If yes, you should probably plug it by using a little adapter.
Title: Re: MultiPlay MX4 Expansion
Post by: GUNHED on 22:59, 30 July 18
Any news about connecting am AMX mouse?


Which software this this great expansion use?