SDCard HxC Test with Parados - FutureOS - BDOS1.72 / faulty PCB at my 6128

[Pentagon]

SDCard HxC Test with Parados - FutureOS - BDOS1.72

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Configuration:
SDCard HxC as A: Drive - Jumpered DSO
Mitsumi Floppy Disk Drive as B: - Jumpered DS1
CPC6128 - 128Kb
Inicron RRB

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Parados is crashing with SD Card HxC Floppy - changing the HxC to a real Disc Drive and Parados is working again. It doesnt like when HxC is Drive A:




FutureOS V7 Test with SD Card HxC - same config

Result: Future OS is crashing like Parados in Filecopy Mode and Disccopy result is an Disc Error
If you remove HxC and change to a real Disc Drive FOS is working fine again.

























Test with BDOS 1.72 and SD Card HxC was successful. The one and only bug i could find that i cant switch back from C: Drive Harddisc to A: Drive HxC
But you can force that if you use |AMS before switching back to |A: Drive HxC. Then it work too.
Copydisc is working fine with BDOS1.72 too i will do some photos later.


Now its time to go to bed, it was a hard day. A lost soccer championchip, lots of bugs to resolve and tons of story and photos.

Good night world

Kindly Regards

Tom / Pentagon

[Pentagon]

Update:

TFM/FS told me to check my Inicron Box, maybe the internal Akku is faulty.

Well good morning world, i am alive again after 4 hours of sleep. I dont know why i am doing that, i am to old for this. Before having the 1st coffee i changed the motherboard of the CPC to a hardwired Parados Rom Version. And i put in the internal HxC Drive.

Now everything is working fine. I can read / write 80 Tracks Discs from B: and r/w from the Internal A: HxC Drive too.

So, i think TFM found the issue with my CPC, it might be the Inicron RRB. I will check that too, but its not easy to do, cause you cant buy that Akku in germany anymore, so i have to buy another and fit it to the PCB.

I dont know whats wrong with the other CPC. If its not the Inicron RRB - then the Motherboard must be faulty. Anything else with Amsdos is running fine, but then i should look at the PCB of the CPC and try to fix that.

So my Test's with FOS and Parados are not representative cause i am using lame old faulty hardware. I need a new brandnew 6128, who can help me?

I just have three 6128 in my collection and all of them are not 100% okay. The first is with wrong CRTC. The second doesnt work with external ROMS, the 3rd does not have the full 5 Volt / Voltage at the Floppyconnector.


Seems that the hardware is getting old.

Kindly Regards
Tom

[Gryzor]

Talking about testing to the extreme...

[Pentagon]

Hello Gryzor,

yes its really extreme testing here. I figured out that my CPC PCB is faulty. The PCB doesnt read the external ROM's of the inicron correct. Its a really strange problem, cause the Board is working fine. Every software is running without any issue. But if i connect the Inicron RRB and try to read the Parados Eprom then its faulty and crash.
Other roms are working fine.

So i changed the Gate Array IC now to a brandnew. But the issue is still there. Now i dont know where i should locate that to fix it. If it would be a memory IC then the games wouldnt run without RRB Box. The NEC Disc Controller IC is working fine with internal Amsdos so it should be okay too.

But there is something i have seen. Its a very very early PCB Mainboard from Schneider. Its with an extra Socket for another Gate Array and the IC Date Codes are from 5/1985. So its the first batch of CPC 6128. Maybe there is an issue?

I dont know, how i should fix that problem at the moment. Now i have just one full working 6128 left and this machine get +5 Volt in but at the Drive connector there are just 4.36 Volt. So the internal HxC LCD Display is much darker as at other CPC6128.

I need a brandnew 6128 please, who can help ? ^^

At the moment its very frustrating, cause i cant fix it. Feeling helpless LOL

Regards
Tom

P.S: The RRB Box is working fine at other machines, so it seems to be okay.

[Gryzor]

I need a brandnew 6128 please, who can help ? ^^

I'm sorry to be the one to bring the sad news, mate, but they stopped making them 20 years ago...

Seriously, now: it wouldn't be strange if you actually hit a bug in the design. I mean, they weren't supposed to be stressed thus, so you're arguably out of the imagined specs...

[Bryce]

@Pentagon, so why don't you fix the broken ones? The one with the "less than 5V at the disc connector" is probably an easy fix. How much voltage does actually make it to the connector? And does the CPC run despite this? If so, it's probably just a dodgy solder point.

The one with external ROM issues could be trickier, I assume you've cleaned all the contacts etc? Pins 42 and 43 are the important ones here, you should also check that the connection from the pin to the internal ROM isn't broken anywhere (Exp Pin 42 should go to Pin 20 of the internal ROM, EXP Pin 43 to Pin 22 of the ROM)

Bryce... ( Working hard to get the worlds CPCs up and running )

[arnoldemu]

Bryce... ( Working hard to get the worlds CPCs up and running )

Good I have a few cpc6128s that need a bit of help

[Devilmarkus]

I need a brandnew 6128 please, who can help ? ^^

I still have a spare CPC6128 mainboard (fully working) so tell me a price for it

[Pentagon]

@Pentagon, so why don't you fix the broken ones? The one with the "less   than 5V at the disc connector" is probably an easy fix. How much voltage   does actually make it to the connector? And does the CPC run despite   this? If so, it's probably just a dodgy solder point.

The one   with external ROM issues could be trickier, I assume you've cleaned all   the contacts etc? Pins 42 and 43 are the important ones here, you should   also check that the connection from the pin to the internal ROM isn't   broken anywhere (Exp Pin 42 should go to Pin 20 of the internal ROM, EXP   Pin 43 to Pin 22 of the ROM)

Bryce... ( Working hard to get the   worlds CPCs up and running

Hello,

thank you so much for your hints. Sure i like to fix it, but its not easy to do. The Input Voltage is 5.24 Volt and at the Floppy connector is just 4.36 Volt. Same Voltage at the Power switch. I soldered all Points and refreshed them, but no difference. Its still 4.36 Voltage inside.

The Other CPC with the ROM issue, is working fine in all things, except the Roms. I checked the pins and cleaned everything but the issue is still there. I think its an early bug cause its really a first batch PCB of Amstrad / Schneider. Anything else is working fine. I checked the NEC Controller, the memory IC's and changed Gate Array, Z80A to a brandnew. But still the same issue.

@Markus:

I am interested to buy that board. Please IM me for details.

Kindly Regards
Tom

[Cholo]

Seen from the HxC point of view i really can see a lot of troubles using Parados or similar drive/format software. HxC is a great single floppy emulator, but a very poor drive emulator. As HxC inserted images cannot be formatted and any attempt to "change" the drive size or format usually makes the HxC/cpc crash.

Like if you have a normal 200kb data disk and try to copy a cpm on top of it, it will crash. Of cause there are no troubles trying to copy files or tracks of the right (same) kind to the HxC.

Also i do wonder if HxC manage to get "ready" before a rom of parados is loaded. I use HxC as a secondary drive with a 464 so i can turn on the HxC first and select drive first, before turning on the amstrad. In the case of the using the HxC as a primary internal drive on a 6128 make sure to turn off the drive selector (in HxC options).

Also i wonder what Parados actually does. Perhaps it does some drive/floppy checks when it boots and if the checks isnt compatible with the currently inserted floppy image format (or if none is inserted) then it will most likely crash.

Another troubles with HxC is that even if you had a floppy image mounted before turning off, it wont be properly mounted when you turn on the HxC again, and you will need to remount the image before it is readable. (this is one of the dangers of using HxC and may result in bad/error image).

I noticed use some kinda 800kb 80 track 2 sides format .. and  i wonder if it needs to be manually selected in Parados?

[Bryce]

@Pentagon, the Internal / External ROM switch is a very simple hardware implementation, there shouldn't be any bug that could cause this not to work, unless they really missed a connection on the mainboard, it literally just disables the internal ROM and the external one reacts to the same address. When an external ROM is connected and doesn't work, does it still "see" the internal ROM or just hang?

Bryce.

[Pentagon]

@Bryce:

Thank you for reply. I try to describe as best i can do. I have an Inicron RamRom Box. Inside are 32 Rom Places. In Rom 7 i put Parados inside and overlay the internal Amsdos ROM with that.
The Inicron RRB is working fine at my 2 other CPC6128 and working fine at the PLUS.

At the faulty CPC i got several Dots Like a "Plot rnd*256,rnd*256"  at my screen if i call the parados rom with "|Drive". All other roms in the inicron box working fine and stable. Its seems just to be the No.7 Rom (same as internal Amsdos).

If i switch of the Inicron RRB and remove it from Connector i just have Amsdos inside. And Amsdos is working fine. I switch back to Inicron and i got the little Dots issue and a crash or freeze.


What i tried to fix it:

Changed Gate Array to a brand new IC
Changed CPU Z80A to a brand new IC
Checked the Port Connector and refreshed the solder points.
Checked the 16 Memory IC's with a software checksum test
Checked the Inicron Box at other CPC machines (working fine)
Checked the ROM Images and checksums inside the RRB (all fine)

Its really weird, i am feeling like a noob.

If i remove the Inicron Box and switch back to pure CPC without any extensions, everything is running fine. I dont have freezers or crashs in any game. Any software is running.

I dont think its a problem of ROMEN Signal at connector, cause the Rom No.7 will be loaded in memory of CPC. But i think its not complete loaded.

Hope i could describe it as good as possible now. Maybe you have an idea. My hope is thats just a TTL or something easy to fix.

Kindly Regards
Tom / Pentagon

[Bryce]

Ok, well described, it still sounds like one of the signals is getting corrupted. I would suggest connecting the Inicron with ROM 7 in place (leave the CPC turned off), then check that each address and data pin on the ROM is really connected to the associated address or data pin inside the CPC. One of the bits is either not getting through, or is only sometimes getting through, by the sounds of it. If the Inicron with ROM 7 works on other CPCs, then everything is fine on that side, so it can only be an issue somewhere between the expansion port and the associated bus lines in the CPC.

If you really think it might be a hardware "bug", the only thing I can think of, is that they used a Logic IC that was too slow for the Job. There are one or two chips with names like "74HCxxx" in the CPC, the cheaper (slower) version of the chip will be called 74LSxxx. If you see any LS chips in the faulty CPC that are HC types in the good CPCs, this could be considered a bug, but it would be really weird if there are any (and worth a page in the Wiki too). Maybe a high-res picture of the board might help if you have time.

Bryce.

[TFM]

Hi Pentagon,
Thanks a lot for all the time and work you have invested here!!! Hope you will get a good keyboard soon and fix all hardware issues (if there are still some).

[Pentagon]

Hello,

i try to give my best. thank you very much.

@Bryce:

I pulled out the PCB again and did a high res picture. I dont think that we have that PCB in Wiki. Its a german PCB Z70210 from 4/1985 with Centronics Connectors. So its really the 1st Batch of CPC PCB. I will not solder more on that rare old piece, its working fine without Inicron Box. I cant find any issue if i dont use the Inicron Box. So i gave up for now. But i think you are right. This PCB is worth to be in wiki, i couldnt find a picture of the german Z70210 in wiki. I found an english V1 version without centronics connector. Now we have both versions for wiki.

Size = 320 mm x 260 mm (32cm x 26cm)

Earliest chip found on the PCB is a logic IC TTL = 74HCU04P from Week 52 / 1984

So i hope to found something useful for our wiki. Sorry for huge size photos, but i thought it's better to have a higher resolution for wiki.

Kindly regards
Tom / Pentagon

[TFM]

Hmm, I've the feeling the problem is located in the RRB.

Try the following: Erase the Pseudo-ROMs (with &00 or &FF) and then reload them. Try it again. Think the problem is the power coming from the CPC and the not-really-new battery in the RRB.

Once I had problems with my RRB, ROMs have been corrupt, but only while USING them, else the checksum was right. And this was while using a CPC Plus! So there is probably no error in the CPC, rather in the RRB.

BTW: Haven't solved this issue up to now. But it helps to load the RRB for one night and then reinstall all ROMs (after erasing them).

Hope this helps a bit.

[Bryce]

You could always connect an additional external 5V supply to the RRB to boost things. This would either confirm or eliminate this possibility?

Bryce.

[TFM]

Well, or replace the "Kondensator" by the Tellur-Version, ZAQ mentioned something like this a couple of years ago. This issue (partially working RRB, not the replacement) is not trivial!

[xesrjb]

The PCB doesnt read the external ROM's of the inicron correct. Its a really strange problem, cause the Board is working fine.

It seems to be a problem with the Bus. I have this Problem, if the cable is to long. Do you really have 5V at your Inicron with this CPC?


xesrjb

[Pentagon]

Hello,

thank you for your Hints, i will check that at saturday. Today my wife need some time too. The last 3 Days i was Non Stop at my CPC and slept just some hours. ^^

I am 14 again LOL

I will check the Power at the RRB and i will power up the RRB with external 5 Volt to check if that would help.

@Bryce:

Have you seen the pictures of the early PCB i did? Maybe we can do them in wiki too. I didnt find a picture of that PCB in our wiki.

@TFM:

I will zerokill the complete flash and write everything new. "Welchen Kondensator soll ich tauschen? (Wert, Nummer etc.)

Thanks again mates - we will fix that !

Regards
Tom

[Bryce]

Yeah, saw the picture, I actually have that exact PCB too, but I don't own an Inicron to see if it works on mine Maybe I'll build myself an Inicron when I've time (and the weather has returned to sensible levels), just checked out the specs and it would be an interesting piece of kit to own.

Bryce.

[Bryce]

I've added your picture to PCB Version page: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Mainboard_Versions#CPC6128_version_1_.288pin_data_separator.2C_solder_points_for_old_and_new_gate_array.29

Bryce.

[Pentagon]

@Bryce:

Thank you so much. I should learn that wiki code quickly.

@Leonie:

Please keep this thread clean or discuss techstuff with me. thanks

Kindly
Regards
Tom / Pentagon

[Gryzor]

Apologies for that, I missed that post. You can always report them

[TFM]

@TFM:

I will zerokill the complete flash and write everything new. "Welchen Kondensator soll ich tauschen? (Wert, Nummer etc.)

Hier mal O-Ton:

Hi Stefan, wie gehts? Hab ja schon ewig nix mehr von dir gehört! :-)
Nick hat mir deine Mail weitergeleitet.

Abhilfe bei dem Problem könnte der Austausch der Elkos C1,C2,C3 (siehe Bauplan RRB) bringen. Und zwar gegen Tantal Elkos.

Evtl. könnte man auch noch C4 tauschen, testen!

...snip...

C1,C2,C6 TantalElko, 47 microF/6.3V, RM 2.5

C4 Elko radial (stehend), 47 microF/16V, RM 2.5

...snip...

Ich hoffe, das hilft, viel Erfolg! Meld dich mal, ob es klappt.

Ciao, Ingo