Author Topic: symbiface  (Read 5943 times)

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Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #25 on: 21:31, 15 January 13 »
Taking power from the CPCs power supply is the worst you could do! Even if some producers use that idea, it still stays an stupid idea. The CPCs power supply is made for the CPC and to drive the busses. But not for anything else. In the worst case you force your monitor to activate the circuit breaker.
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Offline beaker

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #26 on: 22:21, 15 January 13 »
Well that doesn't sound so bad, although I may be thinking of a different type of circuit breaker  ;)

[attachimg=1]

Offline Bryce

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #27 on: 00:23, 16 January 13 »
Taking power from the CPCs power supply is the worst you could do! Even if some producers use that idea, it still stays an stupid idea. The CPCs power supply is made for the CPC and to drive the busses. But not for anything else. In the worst case you force your monitor to activate the circuit breaker.

The CPCs power supply was made with lots of overhead, otherwse it would be pointless having an expansion port or a 5V pin on it. The CPC PSU has about 700mA to spare, which is intended to power RAM / ROM expansions etc. You only have problems if you attach something that needs more.

The 5V line through the CPC, ie: from the 5V input to the expansion port, is more or less a direct link with nothing inline and it's dimensioned to easily take 3A. So pulling a little bit too much power from the expansion port won't damage the CPC, just the power supply, unless you go way above 3A (short circuit) at which time you'll start burning tracks off the PCB.

The monitor has two levels of protection. The voltage regulator has a temperature cut-off switch which shuts down the 5V supply if it gets too hot. This protects against prolonged currents at the limit. For sudden short circuits there's a fuse which quickly blows before the circuitry has time to get hot.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 00:26, 16 January 13 by Bryce »

Offline buzby

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #28 on: 01:30, 16 January 13 »
The CPCs power supply was made with lots of overhead, otherwse it would be pointless having an expansion port or a 5V pin on it. The CPC PSU has about 700mA to spare, which is intended to power RAM / ROM expansions etc. You only have problems if you attach something that needs more.

The 5V line through the CPC, ie: from the 5V input to the expansion port, is more or less a direct link with nothing inline and it's dimensioned to easily take 3A. So pulling a little bit too much power from the expansion port won't damage the CPC, just the power supply, unless you go way above 3A (short circuit) at which time you'll start burning tracks off the PCB.

The monitor has two levels of protection. The voltage regulator has a temperature cut-off switch which shuts down the 5V supply if it gets too hot. This protects against prolonged currents at the limit. For sudden short circuits there's a fuse which quickly blows before the circuitry has time to get hot.

Bryce.


@bryce looking again at the power supply issue because this is makng my head hurt lol :o  is there anyway for those of us who still own a MP1 or MP2  that there could be a conversion or something like to take ground and 12v of the MP1 or MP2 to power up the SF2 or for that matter any other piece of hardware that needs the same supply.


my power supply said 12v 2.5a 5v 2.5a but it is now in the bin as some times i gave the correct reading and the light on the power pack was bright then other time the light went from bright to dull and was clicking, this also gave a low reading as low as 3v on the 12v and 1v on the 5v  :(


so could have a look at the mp1 or mp2 please


buzby

Offline Bryce

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #29 on: 14:23, 16 January 13 »
The 12V on the MP2 was shit, I doubt it would supply enough current.

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Offline Cholo

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #30 on: 22:11, 16 January 13 »
I highly recommend getting a real pc psu to do the powering, not that im qualified to talk about correct powering like Bryce, but using the symbiface 2 it became obvious that it was the only practical thing as well. Having to power the board+mouse is one thing .. but youll probably also need to power 2 hdd's (or hdd SD adapters) and while you are there you can power a 3,5" drive as well.

Using a real pc power supply: PSU's is indeed a bit clever and checks if a motherboard is present before turning on. So to use one youll need to fake having a motherboard connected .. aka connect the green "ps on" wire with one of the black "ground" cables (i used a paperclip) to emulate the presence of a motherboard. Using a real psu (i tried both 20 and 24 pin ATX) really gave nice stable performance.

On the ribbon cable: confused me a bit the first time i used it. Might indeed need replugging at the part that goes into your 6128 (edge connector) as it dosnt always align nicely. Nice to know that the cable is basicly like any other cable (aka you can replace it with the ribbon from a Megaflash or similar device using that kinda ribbon).

The previous batch of SF2 (about 2008-2009?) did indeed come with SymbOS roms (and a couple of others roms) pre-installed. So better not try to launch the 1MB ram disc version of SymbOS (as half the ram has been loaded with roms).

Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #31 on: 22:25, 16 January 13 »
First batch 2005 btw. And... don't mix things up. The ROMs are NOT in RAM, ROM and RAM are separated.


About CPCs psu...
Well, I don't want a flame war here, but I really highly recommend not to use 3A on the expansion port. Except you want problems.
« Last Edit: 22:27, 16 January 13 by TFM/FS »
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Offline Cholo

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #32 on: 23:07, 16 January 13 »
.. The ROMs are NOT in RAM, ROM and RAM are separated..

Donno what is what in exact hardware terms, but Symbos comes in a "normal" 512kb ram version and a 1MB ram version where the 512kb "rom" is used as "ram". As the "rom" is rewritable id advice not to run the 1MB version of the software as it could possibly overwrite the "roms".

Quote
  • 512KB Ram extension, which is fully compatible to the CPC 6128 and the dk'tronics ram extension
  • 512KB rewriteable Rom. You can upload up to 32 Roms, which of course are persistant. You can also use the Rom space as an additional Ram extension. Roms can be switched on or off via switches or via software.
http://www.symbos.de/sf2.htm
« Last Edit: 23:09, 16 January 13 by Cholo »

Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #33 on: 23:11, 16 January 13 »
Sorry, you mix things up here. The 1 MB Symbos verson is made for RAM expansions of 1 MB or more (the SF2 only has 512 KB), examples are the 2 MB expansion of RAM7 and the 4 MB expansion of Jarek.
 
I got Jareks 4 MB expansion and Symbos 1 MB version installed in Flash ROM, but I never managed it to get it running.
 
Don't confuse ROM and RAM here.
 
 
Yes, the Pseudo-ROMs of the SF2 can be used like RAM (because they are RAM!), but no software does use that feature up to now.
 
Symbos in ROM get loaded from ROM into RAM and runs in RAM. The ROM version uses the ROM instead of a disc, as source to be booted from. It does not run INSIDE ROM like for example MAXAM does.
 
« Last Edit: 23:14, 16 January 13 by TFM/FS »
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Offline buzby

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #34 on: 23:52, 16 January 13 »
I highly recommend getting a real pc psu to do the powering, not that im qualified to talk about correct powering like Bryce, but using the symbiface 2 it became obvious that it was the only practical thing as well. Having to power the board+mouse is one thing .. but youll probably also need to power 2 hdd's (or hdd SD adapters) and while you are there you can power a 3,5" drive as well.

Using a real pc power supply: PSU's is indeed a bit clever and checks if a motherboard is present before turning on. So to use one youll need to fake having a motherboard connected .. aka connect the green "ps on" wire with one of the black "ground" cables (i used a paperclip) to emulate the presence of a motherboard. Using a real psu (i tried both 20 and 24 pin ATX) really gave nice stable performance.

On the ribbon cable: confused me a bit the first time i used it. Might indeed need replugging at the part that goes into your 6128 (edge connector) as it dosnt always align nicely. Nice to know that the cable is basicly like any other cable (aka you can replace it with the ribbon from a Megaflash or similar device using that kinda ribbon).

The previous batch of SF2 (about 2008-2009?) did indeed come with SymbOS roms (and a couple of others roms) pre-installed. So better not try to launch the 1MB ram disc version of SymbOS (as half the ram has been loaded with roms).


@cholo so are you using a pc power supply on your symbiface 2 etc

Offline beaker

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #35 on: 23:59, 16 January 13 »
Just an update, I got a reply back from the ebay seller in the link I re-posted a little earlier for the power supply and it's only "1.5-2A for this item".

Offline buzby

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #36 on: 00:04, 17 January 13 »
@beaker i think i am going to go with using a pc power supply, i checked with bryce if i would be ok to use a atx power supply and he said that should be fine, i think that is the way to go for us who are having problem


i belive cholo is using a pc power supply as per his above thread


Offline beaker

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #37 on: 00:12, 17 January 13 »
Seems like a good idea  :D
Cholo, do you run everything from the PC PSU or is it possible/feasible to run everything from the PC power supply: the CPC, HxC and Symbiface 2 or Bryce's mouse adapter depending on what I have plugged in at the time? At the moment I have three cables, one for the Symbiface and 2 for the CPC. If it could run everything and I could use it on my 6128 and my 6128+ that would be cool  ;D

Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #38 on: 03:34, 17 January 13 »
SF2? Go for a 2.5A please :)  (Experiences from some Germans in German forum...)
Oh, and 5V is a bit less btw.
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Offline buzby

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #39 on: 03:47, 17 January 13 »
my power pack was 12v 5v 2.5 amp and i still havent got it working, its just frustrating when you have spent £125 GBP and you cant get something to work


« Last Edit: 04:26, 17 January 13 by buzby »

Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #40 on: 03:48, 17 January 13 »
The 12 V and 2.5 A should get it working IMHO.
Try to disconnect the hard-disc and see if the mouse works / or the ROM management.
(You aren't using a Plus, are you?)
 
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Offline buzby

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #41 on: 03:50, 17 January 13 »
@tfm would a pc power supply be running at 3amp then ? also going on what people have been saying for example they have a 2amp supply and the board has been getting 1.5amp so if you had 3amp then going on that it would be 2.5amp

Offline buzby

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #42 on: 03:52, 17 January 13 »
The 12 V and 2.5 A should get it working IMHO.
Try to disconnect the hard-disc and see if the mouse works / or the ROM management.
(You aren't using a Plus, are you?)


 i have a standard 6128 and i havent a hard disc connected at the minute, tried to contact prodatron on here and also private email but no answer


Offline Bryce

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #43 on: 11:53, 17 January 13 »
About CPCs psu...
Well, I don't want a flame war here, but I really highly recommend not to use 3A on the expansion port. Except you want problems.

What's the issue with using 3A on the expansion port? Or do you mean "trying to pull 3A out of the CPC expansion port".
A typical 400W ATX power supply can deliver at least 25A on the 12V or 5V rail, so you've more than enought power there.

Bryce.

Offline Cholo

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #44 on: 20:30, 17 January 13 »
Its been a couple of years since ive had the SF2 up and running (put into storage). Initially i tested just the SF2 itself by borrowing the HDD-enclosure adapter (at bit like the ones you are using now i guess) that i normally used to power a 3,5" drive. Of cause more wants more .. so ended up dragging a whole spare pc over to the 6128 to make it power the Sf2+Hdd+SD-HDD adapter and the 3.5".

Still kept the 6128 itself powered by a GT65 monitor as i had previously had a bad case of me trying to power one myself .. and learned the hard way how fragile the 6128 power ports is to wrong powering.

Anyways, gave the spare pc to my brother so got a old use office PSU instead. Of cause then had to do that 1 small mod on the main PSU cable to emulate a motherboard is present (or it wont power on) by connecting the green "ps on" wire with one of the black "ground" ones. I used a paperclip for the mod. Worked great and i cant really recall having any more issues with the powering. Fairly weak PSU as well i cant recall the exact stats but i doubt it was over 200W.

So why did i use a PC PSU? Wasnt writting anything anywhere on what to use. But Prodatron himself uses one in the photos on his site. Also everyone who got a SF2 back then was on a "im gonna build it into a mini-pc cabinet"-vibe. So it felt kinda logic thing to do. It is a bit of a mess though with wires all over you really need space around the 6128. Using a PSU you also get the benefit of everthing turning on at the same time.

One small niggle i found was that i couldnt get a cheap CF HDD adapter to work. I recall a lot of other people having the same issue. There might have been a fix where you bend one of the pins on the CF adapter but i couldnt get it to work. Ended up getting a bit more expensive SD HDD adapter instead and that one work flawlessly. Really nice for quick pc<>cpc transfering. Also got a real HDD as a second drive. 80Gb 7200 rpm and there was probably a reason why i got that one (size/FAT limitations).

Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #45 on: 22:05, 17 January 13 »
Anybody ever tested hard-discs bigger than 128 GB ??? Any success? (The hp tells they can't be used btw).
 
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Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #46 on: 22:07, 21 January 13 »

what power supply do you use TFM ?


also is there an idiot guide to this i.e what dip switches should be turned on etc to get symbos up if you get me


i cant seem to get it work unless the power supply is no good but earlier it was reading 5v 12v mmmmmm

IIRC my SF2 uses a 12 Volt, 2.5 Ampere PSU (a small black thingy just).
About symbos, it's ROM content like other ROMs too, so you have to enable ROMs.
 
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Offline rpalmer

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #47 on: 20:14, 22 January 13 »
TFM,

For any IDE interface to use storage media above a certain size means that the software needs to be capable of using it. So far as I looked at the S/W for FAT32 means that the storage media is capped at 128 Gb (due to the way FAT32 works).

To use higher capacity media, the S/W need to be changed to account for larger sectors (i.e 512 bytes to 4096 bytes).

rpalmer

Offline TFM

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #48 on: 21:55, 22 January 13 »
Thanks' Have been thinking too much in LBA instead of FAT32 ;-)
 
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Offline Bryce

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Re: symbiface
« Reply #49 on: 22:09, 22 January 13 »
Ah, so you're working on LBA drivers for FutureOS? :D

Bryce.