Author Topic: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)  (Read 19873 times)

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Offline Edoz(MSX)

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 Dear CPC community, I am following this community now for a while, because my interest in SymbOS. My main and beloved home computer is a MSX computer and not a CPC but I found out since Prodatron ported SymbOS to the MSX that the CPC and MSX share the same CPU and are both super cool 8-bit machines. Last week I talked with a MSX hardware developer (From technobytes, builder of a lot cool hardware for MSX) and we discussed the CPC for a while. On the MSX we have a lot of hardware expansions, some are IO based, like the GFX9000 (Which is a video chip/card) and we think we could make an adapter for it so that you can hookup the GFX9000 to your CPC. On the MSX we have slots, and on the CPC you have this extension port which share the same idea. Extending hardware. We think, we could make an adapter so that you good hookup I/O based MSX hardware to it. Maybe, it would be cool to make this. The GFX9000 (V9990) is already supported by SymbOS, so probably that will work on the CPC as well. Question is if there is any interest for this kind of adapter in the CPC community? If so, we could maybe invest time to make something like this. With this adapter, you could hookup the GFX9000 on the CPC giving you new resolutions and screens. In SymbOS you could enjoy 16 colors, but the hardware supports even more. The V9990 was build for the MSX3 but was never used because the MSX3 was never released at that time.
 

Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #1 on: 18:22, 27 March 17 »

If this comes through... this is another must have expansion for the CPC!  :o


So yes I would take two!


/Ygdrazil

Dear CPC community, I am following this community now for a while, because my interest in SymbOS. My main and beloved home computer is a MSX computer and not a CPC but I found out since Prodatron ported SymbOS to the MSX that the CPC and MSX share the same CPU and are both super cool 8-bit machines. Last week I talked with a MSX hardware developer (From technobytes, builder of a lot cool hardware for MSX) and we discussed the CPC for a while. On the MSX we have a lot of hardware expansions, some are IO based, like the GFX9000 (Which is a video chip/card) and we think we could make an adapter for it so that you can hookup the GFX9000 to your CPC. On the MSX we have slots, and on the CPC you have this extension port which share the same idea. Extending hardware. We think, we could make an adapter so that you good hookup I/O based MSX hardware to it. Maybe, it would be cool to make this. The GFX9000 (V9990) is already supported by SymbOS, so probably that will work on the CPC as well. Question is if there is any interest for this kind of adapter in the CPC community? If so, we could maybe invest time to make something like this. With this adapter, you could hookup the GFX9000 on the CPC giving you new resolutions and screens. In SymbOS you could enjoy 16 colors, but the hardware supports even more. The V9990 was build for the MSX3 but was never used because the MSX3 was never released at that time.

Offline HAL 6128

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #2 on: 23:13, 27 March 17 »
...what are the features possible for the CPC? The same like the MSX?
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Offline XeNoMoRPH

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #3 on: 23:37, 27 March 17 »
I really don't know what could be achieved with this but it is amazing  :o :o :o :o

Offline Duke

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #4 on: 23:43, 27 March 17 »
With it's own video-out. Anything should be possible on a CPC aswell. Good idea for future software taking advantage.

Offline Scarlettkitten

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #5 on: 01:03, 28 March 17 »
This is a fantastic idea :) 8)

Offline keith56

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #6 on: 06:20, 28 March 17 »
It certainly sounds a novel idea, and I'd be interested in getting one if it became available.

I assume its ram would bank in like the regular CPC memory and CPC plus Asic registers?

As it has 512k video ram could unused video ram be used as standard memory?
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Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #7 on: 08:33, 28 March 17 »

Hi Keith56


No the GFX9000 has its own memory, so it's completely separate from the CPC conventional memory!


The GFP9000 is not like the video system we know from the CPC either, it's I/O based not DMA based, so it will not affect the amount of memory free for programs etc. I suspect it will not even affect the standard display of the CPC either and simply attach as a second display!


Interesting :-)

/Ygdrazil

It certainly sounds a novel idea, and I'd be interested in getting one if it became available.

I assume its ram would bank in like the regular CPC memory and CPC plus Asic registers?

As it has 512k video ram could unused video ram be used as standard memory?

Offline Edoz(MSX)

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #8 on: 13:32, 30 March 17 »
Yes true!, The GFX9000 or V9990 is a separate video card with his own memory. For SymbOS it wouldn't matter. You get the same functionality as on the MSX system. Beside the GFX9000 hardware there are a lot of different sound extensions for the MSX which are IO based. Like the OPL2 /3 and 4.

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #9 on: 17:24, 30 March 17 »
I would definitely support something like a video card for the CPC, and particularly such a classic model from 1994. If it is ever released, I will be totally buying a few! Couple it to a 2MB/4MB memory expansion and WOW!  :o

Offline Sykobee (Briggsy)

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #10 on: 17:51, 30 March 17 »
As long as the expansion port has the necessary I/O for the chip, and it can be mapped into the CPC I/O port addressing scheme, then this sounds viable, as it would merely be another I/O device. Obviously it wouldn't be a drop-in replacement for anything, so it wouldn't be quite like the MSX in terms of support. It would be exotic hardware, and not have much support (picture viewers, symbos once adapted, etc). Still, dual-monitor would be neat.

Offline pelrun

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #11 on: 18:46, 30 March 17 »
Sounds very cool. How easy it is to actually get a hold of a GFX9000 card, though?

Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #12 on: 23:23, 30 March 17 »

That is a good question!


Maybe some of the MSX guys can cast some light on this issue!?


/Ygdrazil

Sounds very cool. How easy it is to actually get a hold of a GFX9000 card, though?

Offline Edoz(MSX)

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #13 on: 13:11, 31 March 17 »
That is a good question!


Maybe some of the MSX guys can cast some light on this issue!?


/Ygdrazil


TechnoBytes, Which is (maybe, if enough people are interested) willing to make this adapter for the CPC, is also the creator of the the V9990 currently for the MSX. I think they can make a new batch as well in combination with this adapter. Of course, first we need a prototype so we are sure it works for SymbOS on the CPC like it does on the MSX. Other software is out of my hands, but maybe it possible to port some from the MSX.

Of course, using SymbOS we can make applications and games for it which will work on both systems.

Link of the website:

http://www.tecnobytes.com.br/

Offline Prodatron

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #14 on: 15:45, 31 March 17 »
I really like the positive reaction to this very cool idea here! :) I would take about 5 adapter cards. I wonder how much pre-orders are needed for this project?

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Offline Joseman

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #15 on: 15:57, 31 March 17 »
of course i will take 1 or 2 minimum of this marvellous card!!

maybe it's time for a preorder list?


Offline HAL 6128

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #16 on: 17:40, 31 March 17 »

Sounds good. One card for me too!
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Offline Kris

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #17 on: 19:35, 31 March 17 »
Interested in 1 card ;)

Offline CraigsBar

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #18 on: 02:02, 01 April 17 »
One for me too please.

Offline Scarlettkitten

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #19 on: 03:04, 01 April 17 »
Interested in 1 :)

Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #20 on: 12:08, 01 April 17 »
If I understand correctly with this great new adapter card it would also be possible to connect other MSX devices, like external soundcards, to CPC as well?


Which I/O ports will the adapter occupy!?


Hopefully it will not conflict with existing devices or the future CPC-PI bridge card (described elsewhere)!


/Ygdrazil

Offline pelrun

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #21 on: 06:46, 02 April 17 »
I'm definitely interested in one (plus a v9990).

Offline keith56

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #22 on: 09:42, 02 April 17 »
I'm not quite understanding how to program for this,

Are we looking at a device which will only be used via Out (C),X commands?

if that's the case, won't it be very slow? I mean, it won't matter for graphics and the like, but for games that would be difficult.
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Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #23 on: 11:48, 02 April 17 »

No.. just different!


The process is to send all the graphics for eg. a level. (Sprites, tiles etc. - the GFX9000 has 512Kb)


Then tell the GFX9000 what to do with the stuff...


The V9900 chip of the GFX9000 features a lot of interesting stuff:


Commands for fast block transfers, sprites, line drawing different graphical modes etc. etc.


Read more here:


http://msxbanzai.tni.nl/v9990/manual.html


Here is an example of a game using the GFX9000 on the MSX!


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2iSGXSs5b4[/youtube]


Would be so cool to be able to explore its features from the CPC!


Also i think SymbOS would be easy to adapt for the V9900!


Regards,
Ygdrazil



[youtube]
I'm not quite understanding how to program for this,

Are we looking at a device which will only be used via Out (C),X commands?

if that's the case, won't it be very slow? I mean, it won't matter for graphics and the like, but for games that would be difficult.
[/youtube]
« Last Edit: 11:56, 02 April 17 by Ygdrazil »

Offline hsimpson

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Re: Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)
« Reply #24 on: 10:47, 03 April 17 »
I'm interested in 1 (+ v9990).