Author Topic: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!  (Read 17577 times)

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Offline mr_lou

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #200 on: 14:47, 24 December 18 »
I know. I didn't expect you to implement any changes.

And I know what it's like to work really hard, and then still have people "complain".

We're all impossible!

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #201 on: 14:51, 24 December 18 »

Quote
>I know. I didn't expect you to implement any changes.


But I will. The "copy track" and "play note when record off" are good ideas. Basically, I would hate losing a potential user just because of such tiny flaws.
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Offline Arnaud

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #202 on: 13:15, 04 January 19 »
Hello,
i'd to know if there is a way to play a digitalized sound with Arkos2.

It doesn't matter if the CPC cannot do anything while playing, i have in mind a start game sound or a door creaking for example.

And Happy new year  :)
« Last Edit: 13:40, 04 January 19 by Arnaud »

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #203 on: 14:17, 04 January 19 »

Well, yes and no. AT2 itself handles samples very well: simply create a new sound and instead of choosing "PSG", choose "Sample" and browse your sample. It can be played in your song just like any other instrument.


However, a player mixing both PSG and Sample has yet to be made. But in your case, you could simply use the MOD player in the package and plays a song with only one pattern and one sample. It should do the trick nicely. There will be a small memory overhead because a whole MOD player would be embedded, but you can remove the code that doesn't interest you (like the effect management, etc.). And the player is really not big.


Another thing you can do is to find one of the many sample player out there. It's easy, it's only about sending as many volumes to the PSG as possible, to one channel, if possible every scanline (for a 16khz sound, but 8khz sounds are still OK on CPC). I'm sure some code can be found somewhere. You can still use AT2 to export the sample conveniently (to 4 bits, with compression, etc.).


Happy new year too :) .
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Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #204 on: 14:29, 04 January 19 »
@mr_lou
Quote
I'm used to pressing SPACE to stop the track, and then press SPACE again to enter Record mode. It's the flow.


I didn't understand you at first, but now I think I do. Space would not enter a "Record" mode, but would simply toggle pause/play, right?
My question was: what kind of "play". In AT2, and many other trackers, you have "play from cursor", "play from start of the song", "play pattern", "play song from pattern".


I was wondering what pressing space would do. I believe "play from start of the current pattern", and you still use click the "loop pattern" icon if you want to go further in the song (a CTRL Space could be used as a shortcut. Shift+Space toggle Record already).


What do you think? I still liked space to read the current note, but I could use Return (though it is currently set to "capture instrument", which I like).


Quote
SHIFT+F4 to copy a track


I wanted a shortcut to select the whole track, CTRL+T for example. I can do CTRL+SHIFT+C to copy the whole track (you can redefine it, of course).
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #205 on: 15:47, 04 January 19 »
I didn't understand you at first, but now I think I do. Space would not enter a "Record" mode, but would simply toggle pause/play, right?
My question was: what kind of "play". In AT2, and many other trackers, you have "play from cursor", "play from start of the song", "play pattern", "play song from pattern".

I wouldn't want SPACE to start anything. SPACE should stop the track (if playing). Otherwise it should toggle record-mode.Then I would want CTRL to play song from current pattern. (Yes I know you already said that's not possible).

Basically just load Protracker or Fasttracker and copy the keys and shortcuts from there.

I wanted a shortcut to select the whole track, CTRL+T for example. I can do CTRL+SHIFT+C to copy the whole track (you can redefine it, of course).

Again I would want the same as in Protracker, Fasttracker, Milkytracker etc.:
SHIFT+F3 = cut track.
SHIFT+F4 = copy track.
SHIFT+F5 = paste track
CTRL+F3 = cut pattern
CTRL+F4 = copy pattern
CTRL+F5 = paste pattern

If I have to learn new keys, I simply don't have the interest. Pressed for time as it is, means I'll drop whatever requires a lot of time, such as learning new keys and new effect commands. That's part of the reason why I never looked further into Renoise too.
It would also be awesome if all the effect commands used the same character as in Protracker, Fasttracker, Milkytracker etc. That's the one thing I like about OpenMPT: It allows you to use whatever set of effect commands you want. (But I don't like everything else in OpenMPT).

I'll probably stick with Milkytracker for the rest of my life.....

Offline Arnaud

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #206 on: 17:17, 04 January 19 »
Hello,
i tried to export my song with one digit sound. When i exported in AKG (it's the only song format that handle digit i think) i have a Visual C++ runtime error.
Maybe my input digit sound have not the right format.
Here the Arkos song and the wav.

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #207 on: 17:21, 04 January 19 »
Renoise use stop/start with space, I thought that what would wanted. That I can implement, because it is a toggle, so it is logical. But space as stop/record is illogical to me.


I can add the cut/copy/paste track shortcuts, I think they are relevant. There will be no such thing for patterns, because it is not the philosophy of STarkos/AT/AT2 to duplicate whole patterns, since a Track can be used in many patterns, it would be counter-intuitive and could create many mistakes.


Quote
It would also be awesome if all the effect commands used the same character as in Protracker, Fasttracker, Milkytracker etc.

No. I used letters instead of numbers to have a more friendly interface (U for up, D for down, A for arpeggio etc.). This is on purpose. Plus, moving the cursor on the letters explains what the effect is about.


Like any software, AT2 has a learning curve, but if you're not ready a spend a bit of time, it will not work for you indeed.
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Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #208 on: 17:28, 04 January 19 »
@Arnaud Reproduced. I will correct this, thanks. However, AKG is NOT the format to play samples. You can only use the MOD player (use the RAW export, check the comments in the PlayerMod source to know what to do), or use you own sample player.
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Offline Arnaud

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #209 on: 17:37, 04 January 19 »
You can only use the MOD player (use the RAW export, check the comments in the PlayerMod source to know what to do), or use you own sample player.
For information, i have got another Visual C++ error with export RAW.
However, AKG is NOT the format to play samples.
In that case, what is the use of the option Sample export in the AKG export window ?



Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #210 on: 17:45, 04 January 19 »
Don't worry, I'll correct this and give you a special version :). Strange, I never encountered it before and I tested many MODules.


In that case, what is the use of the option [size=0px]Sample export [/size]in the AKG export window ?
Good point. AKG is supposed to be "generic", in case "someone" want to extend the player and play samples, or if someone like you want to play samples on its own. On retrospect, maybe I should remove this...
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Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #211 on: 17:56, 04 January 19 »
I've added a page about the MOD player, it was lacking.
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Offline Arnaud

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #212 on: 17:59, 04 January 19 »
...if someone like you want to play samples on its own. On retrospect, maybe I should remove this...
Write my own sampler player is far beyond my coding skill  :D
Don't worry, I'll correct this and give you a special version :) . Strange, I never encountered it before and I tested many MODules.
No hurry, i'm just trying Arkos2 features
I've added a page about the MOD player, it was lacking.
Yep, good idea

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #213 on: 18:51, 04 January 19 »
@Arnaud Your problem is actually very simple to correct: your sample is bigger than 64kb, so encoding a dw with a number bigger than 65535 shouldn't be possible, hence an abrupt termination... I should probably prevent the loading of samples that are bigger then 64kb, it's as simple as that.



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Offline Arnaud

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #214 on: 19:04, 04 January 19 »
@Arnaud Your problem is actually very simple to correct: your sample is bigger than 64kb, so encoding a dw with a number bigger than 65535 shouldn't be possible, hence an abrupt termination... I should probably prevent the loading of samples that are bigger then 64kb, it's as simple as that.
It's logic, but i take a very short sample (2s), i have to setup a specific format to export or i have to convert my sample before importing into Arkos2 ?

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #215 on: 19:22, 04 January 19 »
Actually, both. I wrote on article about sampling on the last Another World fanzine, which was spread last year (with a rather strange confidentiality). Maybe I should ask Hicks if he can publish it...


But anyway:
Before loading into AT2:
 - cut the sample as much as possible.
 - try to normalize it, but you don't have to.
Inside AT2:
 - when your sample is loaded, edit it and try to fiddle with the "volume ratio". On CPC, samples are better when compressed like hell.
On export:
 - Simply follow the steps of the MOD player page/source and you should be fine.


Playing sample is not easy on CPC, because it will most of time sounds like crap :). It's a lot of trial-and-error.
You can use a software editor to remove the low-end frequencies, boost the middle frequencies.


You can also use a command-line software called "SoX" that takes a sample, modify it (normalize, boost/remove frequencies, etc.) and save them. Then you can create a song with them. But it's always a bit boring to do...
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #216 on: 20:03, 04 January 19 »
Renoise use stop/start with space, I thought that what would wanted. That I can implement, because it is a toggle, so it is logical. But space as stop/record is illogical to me.

It has nothing to do with logic. It has everything to do with habits; being used to how the interface of other trackers are.
To this day I'm still not used to the way Renoise works, because I work with it rarely. I would definitely have used it more if at least the interface keys had been the same as with previous trackers. But that's definitely part of the reason why I keep sticking with MOD and XM files. (Other reasons of course includes the intriguing challenge in the limitations).

I can add the cut/copy/paste track shortcuts, I think they are relevant. There will be no such thing for patterns, because it is not the philosophy of STarkos/AT/AT2 to duplicate whole patterns, since a Track can be used in many patterns, it would be counter-intuitive and could create many mistakes.

You'd copy whole patterns to edit them slightly afterwards. I know what you mean though.

No. I used letters instead of numbers to have a more friendly interface (U for up, D for down, A for arpeggio etc.). This is on purpose. Plus, moving the cursor on the letters explains what the effect is about.

Again, has nothing to do with logic - everything to do with habits.

Like any software, AT2 has a learning curve, but if you're not ready a spend a bit of time, it will not work for you indeed.

That's what I'm saying yes.
When pressed for time as I am, I simply don't have the time nor interest to get used to a new way of doing things. I've gotten too old and grumpy to put up with constant changes that I have to get used to.

I'm not complaining, just explaining.

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #217 on: 22:00, 04 January 19 »
Quote
I'm not complaining, just explaining.
Never said you were complaining :).


But then, what software did you use to compose your latest songs on CPC? If it's STarKos or AT1, I bet you had to learn a few shortcuts and change your habits.
Oh well, one size doesn't fit all, I guess.
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #218 on: 22:11, 04 January 19 »
But then, what software did you use to compose your latest songs on CPC? If it's STarKos or AT1, I bet you had to learn a few shortcuts and change your habits.

Yes, I used STarKos for those tracks. I wasn't as old and grumpy back then as today.  ;)

I think it also matters a bit that it was on the CPC, which doesn't even have the keys I want to use. That probably makes it a bit more acceptable.

Not saying I'll never use Arkos Tracker 2. But I will need a lot more free time before it happens. If I do do a CPC track, I imagine I'll use STarKos again instead, probably with RetroVirtualMachine now. (All previous tracks of mine has been on real CPC).

Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #219 on: 22:22, 04 January 19 »
@Arnaud The article has been actually on the web for months (and I knew it... I even translated it... And forgot about it.)


You should use what's inside to convert your samples, and play them, instead of using AT2 which will only slow you down for what you want to do. If you have problems playing the sample, don't hesitate to ask.
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Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #220 on: 14:06, 13 January 19 »
@keith56 Some MSX guys have told me they would need a ROM player. They linked to your tutorial of what you did with AT1.
I'd like to do the same for AT2, as I'm sure some people would be interested (would you? :) ).


I'd do it this way, tell me if it sounds good to you. There would be a label that would be the modified data:
PLY_AKG_Variables: equ #1000     ;or whatever
PLY_AKG_Speed: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 0
PLY_AKG_CurrentNote: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 1
PLY_AKG_Whatever: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 2
...


What do you think?
This player could also be used for people wanting to make CPC+ games, or ROM productions.
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Offline reidrac

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #221 on: 15:46, 13 January 19 »
@keith56 Some MSX guys have told me they would need a ROM player. They linked to your tutorial of what you did with AT1.
I'd like to do the same for AT2, as I'm sure some people would be interested (would you? :) ).


I'd do it this way, tell me if it sounds good to you. There would be a label that would be the modified data:
PLY_AKG_Variables: equ #1000     ;or whatever
PLY_AKG_Speed: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 0
PLY_AKG_CurrentNote: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 1
PLY_AKG_Whatever: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 2
...


What do you think?
This player could also be used for people wanting to make CPC+ games, or ROM productions.

A ROM compatible player would be nice, but copying the player to RAM from ROM isn't a big deal and works well. So I guess it really depends on you having time to do it and if the ROM compatible version has any noticeable penalty on performance.
« Last Edit: 08:36, 14 January 19 by reidrac »
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Offline Targhan

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #222 on: 16:12, 13 January 19 »
The problem is not copying the player into RAM. Some people seems to complain that they want all the RAM for other purpose than a 2-3kb player, which is understandable on platform with only 16kb ram (which is the case of some MSX, using a MegaROM of 128kb).
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Offline keith56

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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #223 on: 02:04, 14 January 19 »
It would certainly be interesting, One of the systems I've not tried yet is the NeoGeo - it's sound chip is backwards compatible with the AY - and sound is done via the Z80 - which only has 2k ram (the rest is rom)

I just did a search - I see that there is a 68000 version of Arkos2 for the Atari? that is very interesting to me... I'm planning my next game to be released on a large number of 6502, Z80 and 68000 systems - so that would certainly help!
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Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
« Reply #224 on: 01:08, 12 May 19 »
It is my privilege to present you a new release of Arkos Tracker 2, the 2.0.0 alpha 5 version!

It is a huge release for me as many things were done, UI and player wise. A quick overview:
  • Many graphics improvement, including even more space for the pattern viewer.
  • Midi in: plug your keyboard and have fun!
  • Midi import: import your Midi songs.
  • New AKM (minimalist) player: more compact and powerful than the Lightweight!
  • Source converter: convert the music and player source to any assembler (winape, sdcc, pasmo, vasm, etc.) automatically, thanks to Disark, a new tool (for which I'll create a new thread...)!
  • ROM players: by setting a flag, the players will not use auto-modification anymore, but a small buffer to put in RAM, whereas the player itself can be put in ROM.
  • Support for specific hardware:
    • PlayCity (9 channels)
    • Spectrum Turbosound (6 channels)
    • SpectrumNext (9 channels)
    • MSX Darky (6 channels)
    • MSX FPGA (6 channels)
  • ... and many other improvements.
Check out the website from my signature :).
« Last Edit: 01:10, 12 May 19 by Targhan »
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