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General Category => Applications => Topic started by: Targhan on 15:38, 05 November 17

Title: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 15:38, 05 November 17
UPDATE on 11/05/18, version 2.0.0 a3 released!

Hi everybody,


I am very proud to announce the release of the first alpha version of Arkos Tracker 2!


This is most powerful tracker for Amstrad CPC, but it also blow to pieces all the other trackers for ZX Spectrum, MSX, Oric, Vectrex!


Some features:
Here is a little video of a demo song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhElMzFTj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhElMzFTj8)




A website is up and running (http://arkostracker.cpcscene.net), including the manual, tutorials, and even a forum to post your requests and bugs.


There is still room for improvements, so don't hesitate to ask for specific topics to add. Also, tell me if you prefer video or text tutorials, and in which form.


Remember, this is still an alpha! Even though the software already has a lot of possibilities, some are still lacking, so don't be too quick to judge.


I sincerely hope musicians and coders will switch to AT2 in a near future.


Targhan/Arkos.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 15:45, 05 November 17
Linux? Is that really Linux? Please, explain, because I'm on a rollercoaster of feelings right now  :o.

I've been using a specific version of WYZ that "works", but the tracker running with Mono on Linux crashes too often  :'(

I'll give this a go when I have some time. If is that good, I may invest the time to use it in my current project.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 15:46, 05 November 17
It IS Linux. I tested with Mint and Ubuntu, works like a charm. This is really cross-platform. Not some wrapper around some framework to try to make it work. Have a go, you won't come back :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 15:53, 05 November 17
It IS Linux. I tested with Mint and Ubuntu, works like a charm. This is really cross-platform. Not some wrapper around some framework to try to make it work. Have a go, you won't come back :).

Thanks a lot!

EDIT: downloaded, started it and... OH MY GOD. I love you, seriously! Do you accept donations, don't you? I'll be reporting issues etc. Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: roudoudou on 17:34, 05 November 17
Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh, coming with tutorials and manual  8)


That's great!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 17:37, 05 November 17
Congrats,
and the first great feature i see, is i can use it with windows 10  ;)

I have a little question, i see we can open MOD, and export as AKY.

Are the samples converted ? Or only the tracks are exported ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:51, 05 November 17
Samples are a bit tricky. AKY is only a very fast player for demo, without the management of samples. Right now, there is no player to use the sample ability. The forthcoming AKG (G for Generic) will be able to trigger digidrums though.


If you want to use your own MOD player on CPC, you can export to RAW to get the tracks. There is no option to export the samples for now, though, but that's not hard to do with any software that can load a MOD.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:18, 05 November 17
But note that I will create a MOD player probably once the AKG player is done.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: robcfg on 19:45, 05 November 17
This is excellent news!


I have to say that it sounds (and looks) impressive and being multi-platform is completely ace!


I'd like to ask if we can report bugs here or should be done in the AT2 web site.


Thank you for this wonderful tool!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 21:39, 05 November 17
Quote
I'd like to ask if we can report bugs here or should be done in the AT2 web site.


As you wish, what is easier for you :) .
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: robcfg on 22:42, 05 November 17
Well, it's just that the menu options appear disabled on OSX, but you can still use the ones that have keyboard shortcut.


Oh wait, it seems that it only happens the first time you start the app. If you close it and open it again, the menu options are available.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Ygdrazil on 23:59, 05 November 17

Great news!


Is it possible to dump the songs in a DMA friendly format for the CPC+ series?


Regards,
Ygdrazil

Hi everybody,


I am very proud to announce the release of the first alpha version of Arkos Tracker 2!


This is most powerful tracker for Amstrad CPC, but it also blow to pieces all the other trackers for ZX Spectrum, MSX, Oric, Vectrex!


Some features:
  • Cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac).
  • Manage both standard FM sound (thanks to an accurate AY-3-8912 emulation) and samples without any distinction!
  • Unlimited AY count! You can create standard 3-channel songs, or 6, 9, 32 or more if you want!
  • 4 columns of effects per channel, including Arpeggio (via a table or inline value), Pitch, slide, glide, change Arpeggio/Pitch/Instrument speed, etc.
  • Import from AKS (Arkos Tracker 1), SKS (STarKos), 128 (BSC’s Soundtrakker), WYZ (Wyz Tracker), MOD.
  • Export to AKG (generic, versatile player (still a WIP)), AKY (a new extremely fast player), AKL (lightweight player), or raw for you to use your own format.
  • The AKY player can handle 9 channels for you to use all the power of the PlayCity hardware.
  • New sound effect support, shared among songs.
  • Exports can be assembly sources or binaries: it makes it easy to integrate the songs in your production.
  • Each AY can have its own frequency (including custom ones).
  • Replay rate from 12Hz to 300Hz, or custom.
  • A song is composed of sub-songs, all sharing the same instruments. Helps you save even more memory!
Here is a little video of a demo song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhElMzFTj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhElMzFTj8)




A website is up and running (http://arkostracker.cpcscene.net), including the manual, tutorials, and even a forum to post your requests and bugs.


There is still room for improvements, so don't hesitate to ask for specific topics to add. Also, tell me if you prefer video or text tutorials, and in which form.


Remember, this is still an alpha! Even though the software already has a lot of possibilities, some are still lacking, so don't be too quick to judge.


I sincerely hope musicians and coders will switch to AT2 in a near future.


Targhan/Arkos.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 00:28, 06 November 17
I find that the open/save menu items either don't do anything, or simply lock up the application.  Other menu items seem to work, however.  Otherwise, it seems to run quite well.
(Using Arch Linux)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:58, 06 November 17
About the disabled menu, I indeed noticed it on Mac this morning, but couldn't reproduce it (it happened only once). I didn't notice it on Linux. Did you try close the app and restart it?


Quote
Is it possible to dump the songs in a DMA friendly format for the CPC+ series?


You mean, a list of register+value, is it correct? I don't know much about the DMA, so I would require a more explicit idea of what you need, but this is probably doable. But this would be memory consuming, wouldn't it be worst than YM? Feel free to make a feature request in the forum of the AT website.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:59, 06 November 17
Ah, about the load/save, it indeed happened to me once this morning with Linux Mint, but then I restarted the app and it worked fine. I suspect I will find a lot of strange bugs, I should get used to it :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 02:14, 06 November 17
One more issue I just come across, is that if something else is using audio (at least in this case, Firefox when playing a video), then it crashes on startup.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:23, 06 November 17
Probably related to your driver, I can launch many audio applications at the same time, but it should not crash, so I will check that. Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: GUNHED on 10:27, 06 November 17
Thanks Targhan, this is just awesome wonderful!!!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Ast on 11:18, 06 November 17
Hi everybody,


I am very proud to announce the release of the first alpha version of Arkos Tracker 2!


This is most powerful tracker for Amstrad CPC, but it also blow to pieces all the other trackers for ZX Spectrum, MSX, Oric, Vectrex!


Some features:
  • Cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac).
  • Manage both standard FM sound (thanks to an accurate AY-3-8912 emulation) and samples without any distinction!
  • Unlimited AY count! You can create standard 3-channel songs, or 6, 9, 32 or more if you want!
  • 4 columns of effects per channel, including Arpeggio (via a table or inline value), Pitch, slide, glide, change Arpeggio/Pitch/Instrument speed, etc.
  • Import from AKS (Arkos Tracker 1), SKS (STarKos), 128 (BSC’s Soundtrakker), WYZ (Wyz Tracker), MOD.
  • Export to AKG (generic, versatile player (still a WIP)), AKY (a new extremely fast player), AKL (lightweight player), or raw for you to use your own format.
  • The AKY player can handle 9 channels for you to use all the power of the PlayCity hardware.
  • New sound effect support, shared among songs.
  • Exports can be assembly sources or binaries: it makes it easy to integrate the songs in your production.
  • Each AY can have its own frequency (including custom ones).
  • Replay rate from 12Hz to 300Hz, or custom.
  • A song is composed of sub-songs, all sharing the same instruments. Helps you save even more memory!
Here is a little video of a demo song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhElMzFTj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhElMzFTj8)




A website is up and running (http://arkostracker.cpcscene.net), including the manual, tutorials, and even a forum to post your requests and bugs.


There is still room for improvements, so don't hesitate to ask for specific topics to add. Also, tell me if you prefer video or text tutorials, and in which form.


Remember, this is still an alpha! Even though the software already has a lot of possibilities, some are still lacking, so don't be too quick to judge.


I sincerely hope musicians and coders will switch to AT2 in a near future.


Targhan/Arkos.


Bravo Julien!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 22:49, 06 November 17
Probably related to your driver, I can launch many audio applications at the same time, but it should not crash, so I will check that. Thanks!
Yeah, some applications have issues with more than one trying to use ALSA at the same time.  I do also have pulseaudio installed, which doesn't have this problem (ie: I can play video in Firefox while also running MAME), although this isn't an option in Arkos.  It's not a major issue for me, but figured the crash ought to at least be looked at.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: GUNHED on 23:09, 06 November 17
Great to see that it can import some Soundtrakker Songs.  :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:07, 07 November 17
I have already received a nice amount of feedback (thanks!), and some people have trouble running Arkos Tracker 2. Two reasons:
- Linux: it seems I have compiled for 64 bits, which is a mistake, it was intended for 32 bits, so I will make another build soon.
- Black screen: some people had a black screen when starting the application: it seems your graphic card driver is a bit buggy and can't stand OpenGL, which is used to accelerate the rendering. I will add an option to allow not using OpenGL.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: beb on 11:44, 07 November 17
En deux mots, BRA-VO !!!

I join the crowd to congratulate you.
Really very impressive. Specific music-players, demo (fast) and 4kb (compact) are welcome.

As far as the composition is concerned, I imagine that it will simplify even more the task of the musicians on CPC.
Hoping to listen to complex sounds on melodious music soon ... (hoping for BSC tunes too !!!)

Importing and listening amiga mods is really bluffing.
Pray that it does not bring us too many sterile transfers without originality or tons of adaptations "AY style".

Thanks :D

Edit: "Arkos : The awesomest Amstrad CPC group"
         Even us, we wouldn't have dared :) :) :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Matej on 12:31, 07 November 17
Nice!Now I need 2x or 3xplaycity!!! Will test it in evening! Looks great!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 16:11, 10 November 17
Thanks Targhan looking forward to trying it!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: kawickboy on 09:54, 11 November 17
the demo track is awesome.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: villain on 11:16, 11 November 17
Any chance to get it working under "Raspbian Stretch"?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:30, 11 November 17
I suppose it could, but I have no idea :).


On a side-note: I didn't make advertisement of Arkos Tracker 2 on any other website, because I wanted to make sure the alpha was working fine. A few crashes have been reported, so I really want to correct them first before spreading the software at a bigger scale (Pouet, etc.). I also want to finish the generic player and have the players work for all hardware.


Of course if any of you want to make AT2 more known, be my guest :). But please do not add a Pouet entry on my behalf, thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:47, 11 November 17
Pray that it does not bring us too many sterile transfers without originality or tons of adaptations "AY style".

I feel this community still needs to be more supportive of one another and less elitist & single-minded. If people want to write original tunes for the Amstrad, then great; they're always welcome! But, if people want to convert existing material, then more power to them too! No-one here has the right to dictate how other people enjoy their hobby. And that's all this really is... a hobby!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: beb on 05:13, 12 November 17
No-one dictate anything here...

I thought I was free to "pray" for what I wanted (for original material instead of making copy all the time)...
...obviously it's forbidden.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: robcfg on 12:45, 12 November 17
Why do you take the comment at face value?


Nobody’s forbidding you anything. SuTeKH only said that it's great to have new tunes but it's also fine if people like to make versions or remixes.

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:11, 12 November 17
No-one dictate anything here...

I thought I was free to "pray" for what I wanted (for original material instead of making copy all the time)...
...obviously it's forbidden.
I apologise if you took offense from my comment. Our tiny community needs to be united, not divided!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: kawickboy on 10:06, 13 November 17
This tracker is a major product, and not even for CPC users. I don't understand how there can be bad comments written.




Just enjoy, it's for fun.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:24, 13 November 17
All this is just a misunderstanding. Nothing else. Move along and track, people :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: PulkoMandy on 11:43, 13 November 17
Hi there,


Great work as usual :D


But I already have some complaints (sorry!)


- First, my display is "only" 1280x800. With everything visible in the main window, I have very few space left for patterns. Ok, I can resize the other views, but this is not very convenient and I have to scroll a lot. Would it be possible to "stack" more things (as tab views, I guess), and, even better, to easily switch between them with an easy keybaord shortcut as in StarKos? Or maybe detach things to a separate window, which I would then move to my second screen?
- The volume of the center channel seems very low here, but it may be a problem with my hardware. I'll check with different headphones and other machines.
- When a song is playing, tooltips will not stay visible, they will just flash and then disappear (tested on Windows)
- The MOD import only allows to drop a whole channel, or mix two channels together. It would be more useful to import all the patterns and then let me rearrange stuff in the linker to reduce to 3 channels (maybe there could be a 4th channel, which would not be replayed?). I can probably import as a dual-AY song and then work from theer, so that should be ok, still.
- No MIDI file import? That may be useful in some cases, too (but not very easy). Well, I guess I can convert to MOD from ModPlugTracker and then convert that...
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 12:18, 13 November 17
Thanks for the remarks.


Quote
First, my display is "only" 1280x800. With everything visible in the main window, I have very few space left for patterns. Ok, I can resize the other views, but this is not very convenient and I have to scroll a lot. Would it be possible to "stack" more things (as tab views, I guess), and, even better, to easily switch between them with an easy keybaord shortcut as in StarKos? Or maybe detach things to a separate window, which I would then move to my second screen?
This is not in the pipeline, but I can add this to the TODO list (low priority though).


Quote
The volume of the center channel seems very low here, but it may be a problem with my hardware. I'll check with different headphones and other machines.


This is something to "improve": the volume ratio is targetted as on a real CPC using the speaker output (the center channel is softer). If listening to mono, all the channels should have the same volume, which is not done. I want to have add a "volume" page to chose that more conveniently, and why not, parameterize this. Some hardware may not handle the volume this way.


Quote
When a song is playing, tooltips will not stay visible, they will just flash and then disappear (tested on Windows)


Never quite noticed that, will check.


Quote
The MOD import only allows to drop a whole channel, or mix two channels together. It would be more useful to import all the patterns and then let me rearrange stuff in the linker to reduce to 3 channels
Just like you said, to me you have to import the 4 channels, having 2 AYs. Make your changes, then remove the second AY. I think it is more versatile this way.


Quote
No MIDI file import
Well, it's very tricky to do. Seeing how crappy can be the import, I believe it is simpler to convert the song by ear :) . But you can make me change my mind. I should check how Renoise or OpenMTP manage to do that.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 13:00, 13 November 17

As you wish, what is easier for you :) .

I see you use JUCE. :-)

I added 2 bug reports on your the forum part of your website. One of them (very minor) might be a pure JUCE bug.

Would you consider open-sourcing your productions? If no, why? Are you afraid of something?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 13:05, 13 November 17
> Any chance to get it working under "Raspbian Stretch"?

I suppose it could, but I have no idea :).

That's part of the magic of open-source. Publish source on github, bam! people make it work in other situations.

Sometimes they contact you with patch, or request for help, and then you know they are working on it.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-02-17
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:52, 13 November 17
Thanks for the reports, saw them.


As for the open source, it will be at some point, but right now I want to do it "my way", without having to explain anything to anyone. But when I have done all I want, I will publish it as open-source. Thanks for your understanding :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 14:03, 13 November 17
- Linux: it seems I have compiled for 64 bits, which is a mistake, it was intended for 32 bits, so I will make another build soon.

Short version: will you provide both 32 and 64bits? Please do!

Perhaps the details below are "preaching to the converted" as people say. If so, please just ignore.

64 bits is fine with modern OSes. There's a huge difference between Linux and Windows here.

On 64bit Windows many projects build only for 32bit target because windows ships with huge legacy binary support, and 64bit practically always runs into trouble one time or another (if not in your code, then in dependencies).

On 64bit Linux, major distributions install only 64bit libraries. This is one of the reasons why Linux is leaner and more performant in some areas.
If you distribute a binary needing 32bit libraries this implies a overhead of missing libraries, the user installing a 32bit subsystem, etc. This happened e.g. to Skype. Unless you distribute a big statically linked binary (which is another kind of bloat).

As a result, on Linux many software projects do not provide binaries, and those who do they provide both 32bit and 64bit.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:15, 13 November 17
I didn't know it was so important for linux. I'll first provide 32 bits, and will try to provide 64 bits as well.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 14:30, 13 November 17
Great work! Great to see new tools that allow people to make good AY music easily. Brilliant that it is cross platform.


Sadly, I have the musical ability of a Bobbit Worm. But maybe it's the tools and not the person, and this will fix things! (I wish!)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 15:20, 13 November 17
Hi Targhan just to report, i have the same issue as PulkoMandy, i am using a windows laptop with a resolution of 1366x768 which struggles to fit everything on the screen vertically


(https://s7.postimg.org/5xg2qp8uz/at2.png)



Title: Window handling broken in several aspects yields frustration
Post by: cpcitor on 16:37, 13 November 17
Congratulations!

Congrats for what seems like a great prod, with nice step-by-step documentation!

Observations

The observations below apparently have a common cause and are probably easy to fix.

Basically, it looks like AT2 wants to do itself window management, something that is already handled by other software properly with all the complicated and platform-specific corner cases done right. Handling anything like this with custom code is likely to cause more work for little benefits and frustrate some users. Juce doesn't force this, does it?

Anyway, this causes 4 observations, none critical but degrading the user experience. From minor to annoying:

1 Window border and buttons mis-styled

* The window is drawn with custom border and minimize/maximize/close widgets that kind-of imitates Windows 10.
* User preferences are ignored: border width, color, style+size+position of buttons (not only minimize/maximize/close but some others like roll, pin to desktop).
* This looks alien/fad/gimmick on a Linux desktop where common wisdom for ages is that app just don't try to interfere with basic desktop functionality.

2 Resize: User Experience broken

* For years some desktop environment (XFCE which I use, KDE also IIRC) have allowed to alt-click anywhere in the window. Left click moves the window, right click resizes. Not with AT2. Left works, right not: it moves just like left.
* Actually, any external program I've tried to change window size just could not.
* For a moment I thought AT2 was like some old Windows apps that have fixed size window.  In practice it was.  [Added: apparently, it really is, kind-of.  See below.]

3 Maximize button does not do what's expected

* Then I tried the "maximize" button.  Broken also.
* Explanation: my laptop has a small screen and its desktop extends onto a big screen. Pressing the "maximize" button maximizes the window on the small screen even if I put it on the big screen first.
* Can I maximize it on the big screen simply? I guess not.  With any usual app, this just works.

4 The most annoying: Alt-Tab cannot switch to Arkos Tracker!

* The window just does not appear in the list of opened windows.
* It feels like the app disappeared, crashed or something.
* Actually, the app is indeed there, but can't be reached with alt-tab.

As a side note, be aware that Ubuntu Linux for years no longer has a "task bar" that lists window titles.

As a matter of fact, I don't use a task bar / app dock or anything like that would take room at the bottom of the screen.

I happen to switch between windows using SuperSwitcher.  That tool sees AT2 window, and shows it with default icon.

Those who don't use SuperSwitcher may have a more difficult time.

How to work around broken user experience

Since the maximize button can change the window size, the application can actually change size.  Good news!

I finally found that you can resize the application the old slow way that I've not used for years: aim for the window bottom right corner, left-click and drag.

Conclusion

No big deal, yet frustration for no good reason.

IMHO the best thing to do it just do like all apps: don't try to interfere with basic desktop functionality.

(1) Don't forbid the system to decorate the windows.  This just lets the window manager decorate the windows with the style that the user wished.
(2) Don't forbid the system to resize the window.  This just lets whatever platform-specific option you don't even know to just work.
(3) Don't declare the window as a special window (dependent window, tool window or whatever).  This is special cases for applications like Gimp where the user clearly wants one entry per image in Alt-Tab, and not one entry per each small tool window.  Not relevant for AT2 which has only one window.

Trying to do window management oneself only gets a setup that work on your platform and your habits but breaks for other people, causes more work, for what benefit?

Tech side

From the app behavior it looks like it tells the system that it is a fixed size app and just happens to have custom code that allows limited options to change position and size, with an incomplete maximize feature.  Is that right?

I think I remember the last apps that did something similar: the antique xmms player (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMMS) or xine - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xine). Those were really fixed size, so the choice of forcing the platform and handling everything by itself caused not as much work as in your case and was less likely to frustrate users.  The popular VLC did not fall into this trap.

Probably, fixing those problems will just be a matter of just not forbiding desktop environment to do its job, in practice removing things / simplifying code and/or not enabling some Juce features that cause interference with basic desktop functionality.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:25, 13 November 17
Thanks for this big report. I indeed do "some stuff", but I don't always have complete control. All I do about the status bar is overriding some paint method. Juce has some flaws about it. I'll try to correct what I can. Alt-Tab works fine for me however, last time I checked.


As for the smaller screen problem, I'll see what I can do, but this might take some time, as the best solution might not be so obvious (to design and to code!).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 18:31, 13 November 17
- The volume of the center channel seems very low here, but it may be a problem with my hardware. I'll check with different headphones and other machines.

You're right. Same thing here. I thought it was just silent.
So low that whenever another voice it active, it's just like muted.

- The MOD import only allows to drop a whole channel, or mix two channels together. It would be more useful to import all the patterns and then let me rearrange stuff in the linker to reduce to 3 channels (maybe there could be a 4th channel, which would not be replayed?). I can probably import as a dual-AY song and then work from theer, so that should be ok, still.

Yes, same thing here.

- No MIDI file import? That may be useful in some cases, too (but not very easy). Well, I guess I can convert to MOD from ModPlugTracker and then convert that...

ModPlugTracker appears to be windows-only, yet thanks for sharing. :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 18:38, 13 November 17
Thanks for this big report. I indeed do "some stuff", but I don't always have complete control. All I do about the status bar is overriding some paint method. Juce has some flaws about it. I'll try to correct what I can. Alt-Tab works fine for me however, last time I checked.

Thank you for taking care!
When you tested Alt-Tab, what OS were you using? What desktop environment?

After failing with "we're the devils", "sleepwalk.mod"," CrytsalHammer", I could finally import some mods (Alphaville by Wild Copper, Phenomena demo soundtrack, Tranzx.mod).

The sampled instruments seem low quality. Is that representative of the CPC+ or a bug? (Just passing by, I'm targetting regular CPC at this point.)

Bug? All sound output is effectively mono (definitely, hearing using headphones). And if I check the "mono output" checkbox in the preference, I have no sound at all.

Exporting a WAV file yields exactly the same results (poor quality, mono), so it's probably not a matter of bad platform-dependent output, rather problem in waveform computation?

Also, the "made with Juce logo" that appears on bottom right when starting, is it mandatory ad because of Juce license constraint, or just something you added for fun?

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:53, 13 November 17
About the MOD, a lot of old MOD don't work because they are 15 instruments, not 31 ones. There is a strange way to compute looping sample which I haven't fathom yet, so I just ignored it. Imports are "best efforts", but I will improve them as best as I can.


The quality is as heard on CPC. The volume of each sample should be increased by yourself, thanks to the "amplification" knob inside each sample. This is normal. Don't expect MOD to sound great right from the start, unless the samples are all saturated. Saturation is the key on CPC!


As for the almost silent middle channel, it is strange but I don't know what is happening for now.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:54, 13 November 17
I suspect there is a problem with your stereo though. I of course tested on all platforms, and stereo/mono works fine.


As for the JUCE logo, it is mandatory because the project is closed source.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 19:09, 13 November 17
I suspect there is a problem with your stereo though. I of course tested on all platforms, and stereo/mono works fine.

You can move on peacefully regarding stereo. There was a loose jack at the moment I tested. Sound indeed is stereo, and mono mode works as expected.

Thank you for the explanation about sample quality.

As for the JUCE logo, it is mandatory because the project is closed source.

Thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 19:16, 13 November 17
Since the loose jack was fixed, the center voice (2) is no longer near-silent but audible.  :)

I can't find a way to turn a sampled instrument into a FM instrument.

I can only "clear" it, then I have to manually discover all the parameters that have to be changed (first: set the cleared instrument to be a FM instrument), and change everything cell by cell.

I expected to be able to use the "create new instrument from template" dialog, simply additionally commanding to overwrite the one at a position I wish. Instead it always creates appending at the end.

Also, when porting some music from sample to FM, it would be nice to be able to switch at will between original sample and FM instrument (even while playing) to assert the fidelity of the conversion.

But perhaps there are already good ways to do, that I just haven't figured out?

Good job anyway, and excellent decision to write cross-platform!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 20:24, 13 November 17
I didn't know it was so important for linux. I'll first provide 32 bits, and will try to provide 64 bits as well.

I've been using a 64-bit system for years. We can manage if you provide a 32-bit binary only, but 64-bit would be much appreciated!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 22:06, 13 November 17
Ok, I'll add Linux 32/64bits in my pipeline. God thank Jenkins :) .


Quote
can't find a way to turn a sampled instrument into a FM instrument

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. Could you be more specific please? Do you simply created a sample instrument and simply want to ditch it, to be replaced by a FM instrument?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 22:35, 13 November 17
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. Could you be more specific please? Do you simply created a sample instrument and simply want to ditch it, to be replaced by a FM instrument?

* The scenario is: loading an existing mod with sampled music, in the intent of converting it to FM-only to play with a regular CPC.
* In a song, each instrument is used many times, identified by a number.
* The aim here is: keep the number, the song sill still call the same instrument number but that should play a FM instrument instead of the sample instrument.
* Ideally, when user asks for this, user can choose the initial FM instrument behavior just like when user adds a new instrument with a new number: single beep, decreasing voume, etc.

Is that clearer?

(Bonus points it the change is reversible. For example if switching to FM does not destroy the sample reference immediately, just "hide" it. That is, if the data structures allow both FM and sample parameters to be present, the flag FM/sample only says which one is played and you can swicth at will to compare the FM instrument and the sample instrument at will while playing. But if all that part in parenthesis is not clear just ignore it.)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 12:12, 14 November 17
Switching between sample/FM instrument by "hiding" the other is not possible, and won't be. However, you wanted to use the "template" pop-up to overwrite a Sample instrument.
Unless I'm wrong, you can create a *new* FM instrument and set its destination to the sample instrument you want to overwrite. Shouldn't this do the trick?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 22:37, 14 November 17
Switching between sample/FM instrument by "hiding" the other is not possible, and won't be. However, you wanted to use the "template" pop-up to overwrite a Sample instrument.
Unless I'm wrong, you can create a *new* FM instrument and set its destination to the sample instrument you want to overwrite. Shouldn't this do the trick?

Yes, completely.

In spite of the reported problems (non-core, non-critical, non-blocking), I confirm software is usable on Ubuntu 16.04 AMD-64. It seems to reflect comprehensively the features of our beloved AY-3-8912.

Not tested yet the output on a real Amstrad, but managed to adapt an existing short tune into a working file. Even the "emulate CPC internal speaker" feels faithful (only tried on good external speakers).

Congrats Targhan! Keep up the good work! 8)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Carnivius on 15:16, 20 November 17
Excellent software, very well presented too. 

Is it possible to import YM files to see how certain tunes were composed or is that impossible?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 15:26, 20 November 17
Thanks. You're not the first one to ask for an YM import, but it is almost impossible to do. YM is just a stream, it would require a lot of work to extract instruments and notes in a useful way. Anway, with a bit of experience, recreating a song from listening to an YM is rather easy, even if long and not especially fun.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Carnivius on 15:51, 24 November 17
recreating a song from listening to an YM is rather easy,

Not when you have little to no musical talent. :P
But yeah ok if it's impossible that's fine.  Me just wishful there.  Great program :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Sice on 10:42, 29 November 17
Amazing job Targhan...I just registered on this forum to congratulate you. I'm really happy there is some activity on the CPC again, and seeing new tools like this available that I can use on my Mac motivates me to try writing songs again.


I have one question, does it have live sample playback in the player when programming a song? I loved Starkos tracker so much the only thing was it was not possible to hear sample playback live in the tracker (I'm sure you had your reasons and it was not easy to code that feature though!). If this is possible I think it could be quite inspirational when writing songs (I've not downloaded it yet or read the manual, but I will soon). How many samples can you have and can they be 'tuned' (in other words, playing a sample on another higher key will play that sample higher pitch?). I seem to remember this was not possible on CPC in other trackers.


I also just watched the CRTC3 demo from roudoudou...what an amazing demo and what a good song. Was that written using arkos tracker? I would like to know how he got the SId type effects and making the AY sound like it has different waveforms. I'm hoping that creating these kind of sounds is possible on the regular CPC, hopefully with Arkos tracker??

I'm hoping that it would be possible to have a SID effect on one channel and it not use too much CPU, or is that wishful thinking?





Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:32, 29 November 17
Thanks!


About the samples, yes, you can either use them as digidrums in the Event column (like Starkos), and you will of course hear them, or you can use samples as instruments, just like any FM instrument. To check that quickly, simply import a MOD and press play :).


However, there is no player currently to play samples. A MOD player will come later. As for a dual FM/Sample player, I may do it, but not sure, because it's very specific and coders should code their own according to what they need. Maybe I'll do it if many people ask for it.


As for SID, it is only very low on my TODO list, because it will require a lot of thinking to satisfy all platforms. There may be several SIDs (ST-Sid, Sample Sid, etc.). SID is also very tricky to play depending on the hardware. A CPC+ player could be created easily, not a CPC Old.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:35, 29 November 17
As for the music of Roudoudou's demo, no, it was not created with AT2, but with Zik's Soundtrakker DMA, a not-released-yet soundtracker specific to the CPC Plus. Asking Zik for it may accelerate its release, so have a try :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:21, 05 December 17

When you testes Alt-Tab,
 


tee-hee :D :D :D
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Sice on 01:13, 24 December 17
Hi Targhan,


That's great news SID will come eventually but no rush!

Could you tell me about the CPU usage if just using 1 SID effect on one channel? How about the CPU usage for songs on a regular CPC when using a few samples or converted MODs?


I'd like to write some original songs with samples...maybe 5 or 6 of them. I'm happy to use normal hardware envelopes, drums etc but would like to use samples for the main melody.


I was hoping perhaps the songs with samples wouldn't use more than about 15-20% CPU so they could still be used with some nice demo FX, or am I being overly optimistic?
Thanks,


Sice



Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 01:47, 24 December 17
SIDs are definitely the most complex sound you can have. They will take at least 50% of your CPU, but you have to be NOP accurate, so it's like spending 100% of your CPU, with some waiting at every scanline. I won't be coding SIDs before the rest is coded, so it WILL take a long time. Plus I admit this is not my primary concern, I don't like SIDs :) .


There is currently no player to play both FM sounds and sample (I'm not talking about mere digidrums), but I will eventually do it. But first, I must do the MOD player, which is quite easy, I've done it many times before. It's in the pipeline, and will come probably just after the generic player on which I'm working on.


And Sampling WILL take a lot of CPU, much more than 15-20%. We're on a CPC, don't forget it :) . A CPC Plus player could make it faster, but I'm not the one who will do it.


Just look at the Landscape part of the Demoizart: that's about the best you can get (2 fm channels, 2 sample channels), but I can do better without the color handling and stuff. However, this is a very specialized player. Wait & see ! But wait first :) .
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 02:27, 24 December 17
About SIDs and samples, you really have to understand that even if these effects don't require all the CPU, you have to play them a very accurate timing. This makes any other effect very very very hard to do. Have a look at Imperial Mahjong if you haven't already. There are samples during the game, and it was an absolute nightmare to code. So making the player is only actually one small part of the problem. Slicing the effect/game code during the "waiting" code is the hard part.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Sice on 00:40, 04 January 18
That's OK...I may write a regular song - I have already created some nice Sid-type arpeggios using the regular sounds. Then I might duplicate the same song but have some sounds as samples...

I have to say - great job with this tool. I hope it will be the start of some nice original tunes for our good old CPC. I have started writing a song and have enjoyed using it so far.

I know it is alpha so there are some small bugs that you may already be aware of, such as saving of samples from some .mod files. The menu becomes greyed out and you are not able to save samples (I'm on a Mac). The only way to save them is to change a pattern or something in the file, then hit the 'X' and try and save (the dialog will appear). It will crash but still save your song. Then you can open it again and save samples. However, I'm unsure how to import these into my own song properly. I tried to select an existing track and import the sample but it doesn't seem to want to import it (unless I am missing something?)

It would also be great if you could import / export Arpeggios that you have made. The same goes for cells in the Linker - what if you could select a cell (pattern for 1 channel) and export. That way if you have a little idea from another song, you could save it and import it into the cell of another song and you wouldn't have to recreate it! Maybe in the pattern editor it would be possible to highlight some notes and select the copy option to then paste. Even more amazing would be if you had a pattern, and you had a transpose option. So if you had a pattern that you were able to import from another song but it is not in the correct key, you could simply transpose it up or down!

For even faster use, maybe there could also be a right click that would also have the same options as the icons (for people that don't want to hover over the menu icons on some icons where they can't remember what the option is for)

Lastly this is just an idea for fun...how cool would it be to have a ‘random’ button in the instrument editor…for fun and inspiration to maybe generate some different and original sounds?

Apologies if some of the above is in the manual somewhere but I didn't read it yet - I have found Arkos Tracker 2 to be very easy to use so have not even looked at it!

Brilliant work though Targhan for such a nice tool, I hope that new songs will inspire some nice new demos too in the future!

P.S - I wish the AY could handle more than 1 hardware envelope at a time without making screeching noises on a normal CPC! I guess the reason why I like SID-type sounds is that that the hardware waveform seems more 'controlled' when using this type of sound - we don't have the usual effects of the hardware envelope only sounding OK if the note is related in key when we go up a scale (I read your article on the new Memory Full website by the way with interest!)

:-)

Sice



Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 03:20, 04 January 18
Hi,


Thanks for all your remarks.


Quote
I know it is alpha so there are some small bugs that you may already be aware of, such as saving of samples from some .mod files. The menu becomes greyed out and you are not able to save samples (I'm on a Mac). The only way to save them is to change a pattern or something in the file, then hit the 'X' and try and save (the dialog will appear). It will crash but still save your song. Then you can open it again and save samples. However, I'm unsure how to import these into my own song properly. I tried to select an existing track and import the sample but it doesn't seem to want to import it (unless I am missing something?)


Funny thing about the "greyed out" menus, I'll look into that, I never quite reproduced it, but you're not the first one to encounter it so it is a serious flaw I should correct.
About the MOD, I'm not aware you can save samples yet :), so I don't what you are trying to achieve! Nothing should crash, even in this alpha version, so please can you give me what actions you are doing?


As for the samples, the next-next version will hopefully have all that is needed to export the samples in a way the future MOD player - or any player - can play them. This will be also useful for digidrum playing. But since you have the MOD you are importing in AT2, it is easier to extract the samples from them using a tool like OpenMPT! Any MOD player on CPC will require 8 or 4 bits samples, saves them in a RAW format. But I don't know what player you will use... There are none except the Digitracker from Prodatron (the Protracker from Crown doesn't have any player, to my knowledge).


Not a bad idea for Arp/Pitch export, I'll consider it.


As for the cell export, the future copy/paste option may be enough?


As for the transposition/random option, there will also be an option in a future "toolbox". But don't forget that you can transpose on the fly and in a non-destructive way via the Linker, using the Transpositions!


Thanks for your support!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 05:49, 05 January 18
Oh, do you mean you saved the instrument containing the sample? It saves under a zipped XML format, which itself contains the sample in base-64, so there is no interest for you, indeed. But please tell me how the crash occurred (either PM or on the "bug report" section of the AT2 forum). Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Sice on 00:38, 09 January 18
Sorry I have been away, I will reply properly soon with the details :-)


Yes I meant when saving samples...I thought perhaps I could save sample instruments from another song, then load that sampled instrument into the song I have made to replace my drums sounds. Is this possible?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 01:06, 09 January 18
Well, you can "save instrument" in the first song and "load instrument" in the second, which should work! Doesn't it?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 15:55, 04 February 18
I've started reading the code and I like it (I think), but I have a problem... that is basically that I need this to compile with SDCC assembler.

I can convert the source (and that will be painful, SDCC assembler sucks), but given that this is is an alpha, @Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110) do you expect the lightweight player to change a lot?

I'm afraid that when I start integrating it in my project it may end being a fork of the code because it would be too expensive to merge in any future changes.

Thoughts?

I also have a potential UI bug report, see the screenshot. I have problems reading that dialog :)

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:41, 05 February 18
Hi,


No, the code is not going to change much (I've done some tweakings, but nothing drastic).
As for your UI bug, very strange, since all the load/save uses the OS UI, not a specific UI! What is your system? Do you simply try to load a song? Does it happen too when you try to "save as", or "load instrument"?


Thanks.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:09, 05 February 18
But thinking about it, maybe you could use another assembler (Rasm, SJasmplus) only for the player (using a fixed address), then integrate the generated binary using SDCC ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 23:46, 05 February 18
Hi,


No, the code is not going to change much (I've done some tweakings, but nothing drastic).
As for your UI bug, very strange, since all the load/save uses the OS UI, not a specific UI! What is your system? Do you simply try to load a song? Does it happen too when you try to "save as", or "load instrument"?


Thanks.

May be is some sort of weird behavior with XFCE. My theme is not special I think (and my apps don't look like Arkos Tracker 2!).

I'll double check, but if it works fine for everybody else, forget about it.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 23:48, 05 February 18
But thinking about it, maybe you could use another assembler (Rasm, SJasmplus) only for the player (using a fixed address), then integrate the generated binary using SDCC ?

Yes, I thought about that, but the point of using the SDCC assembler is that the linker will relocate the code around as needed, so it allows me to use all the memory without thinking about it.

I've converted 90% already; although I haven't tested that I didn't break anything (that's going to be fun!). I can contribute the source if you think that would be useful (thinking about it, is CPCTelera using Arkos 1 and SDCC?).

Thank you for the tracker (and the player). Having the tracker working natively in Linux is just amazing!


PS: please tag me in your replies so I get a notification! Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:03, 06 February 18

@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
Thanks for your remarks and support. You didn't answer the question : does this weird UI bug happens on load song, but also on "save as", and "load/save" insrument too ?


Quote
Yes, I thought about that, but the point of using the SDCC assembler is that the linker will relocate the code around as needed, so it allows me to use all the memory without thinking about it.
I've converted 90% already; although I haven't tested that I didn't break anything (that's going to be fun!). I can contribute the source if you think that would be useful (thinking about it, is CPCTelera using Arkos 1 and SDCC?).

CPCtelera supports Arkos Tracker 1, I don't know what compiler it uses though.
Contribution could be useful, but I'm not sure this is such a great idea, because I would have to support it! The player has already changed a bit in the next version, I don't want to also have to change the SDCC code too, because it's a lot of work. I have automatized test units for all my players, but this is not easy to set up (I embed Rasm in my C++ code). I'm not planning on also embedding SDCC... I hope you understand!


But you can make me change my mind :) .
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 00:10, 06 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
Thanks for your remarks and support. You didn't answer the question : does this weird UI bug happens on load song, but also on "save as", and "load/save" insrument too ?



It looks like it happens in all file dialogs, so yes... "save as" and load/save instruments look the same. What is the toolkit that you're using? Where is it getting the theme from?

There are other bits I can't read. I would prefer a more "plain" look TBH.

CPCtelera supports Arkos Tracker 1, I don't know what compiler it uses though.
Contribution could be useful, but I'm not sure this is such a great idea, but I would have to support it! The player has already changed a bit in the next version, I don't want to also have to change the SDCC code too, because it's a lot of work. I have automatized test units for all my players, but this is not easy to set up (I embed Rasm in my C++ code). I'm not planning on also embedded SDCC... I hope you understand!


But you can make me change my mind :).

It's probably easy for me to port those small changes and as long as the code is fine, I don't mind "freezing" to that tracker/player code. I mean, I won't update the games once released anyway :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 11:08, 06 February 18
May be is some sort of weird behavior with XFCE. My theme is not special I think (and my apps don't look like Arkos Tracker 2!).

I'll double check, but if it works fine for everybody else, forget about it.

Same here. I'm using XFCE with a pretty ordinary light theme (MurrinaElement) and observe exactly the same contrast problem.

It looks like it happens in all file dialogs, so yes... "save as" and load/save instruments look the same. What is the toolkit that you're using? Where is it getting the theme from?

Arkos uses JUCE (https://juce.com/), a music-oriented application-developing framework.

There are other bits I can't read. I would prefer a more "plain" look TBH.

Same for me. I prefer when program don't try to change color at all.

I've been also on the other side (app developer) and can witness that color conflicts in UI easily happen.

There are solutions guaranteed to work, if the toolkit used lets developer enough freedom:


In my experience, any deviation results in users reporting problems, and strictly following one of these ways solves them.

Arkos, does Juce gives developer enough freedom to implement one, the other, both?


Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:32, 06 February 18
I do not use any custom/JUCE File Picker (I explicitly indicate to use the native file picker), and that's the behavior I have always seen on Windows, Linux and Mac. So what you report is striking to me.
Since I never asked to use a Juce FilePicker (yet it uses one, for whatever reason), the color scheme is broken because I never implemented it.


Juce doesn't impose anything, I can create my own FilePicker, but I won't. I'll ask the devs if they have a solution.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 14:32, 06 February 18
I do not use any custom/JUCE File Picker (I explicitly indicate to use the native file picker), and that's the behavior I have always seen on Windows, Linux and Mac. So what you report is striking to me.
Since I never asked to use a Juce FilePicker (yet it uses one, for whatever reason), the color scheme is broken because I never implemented it.


Juce doesn't impose anything, I can create my own FilePicker, but I won't. I'll ask the devs if they have a solution.

Wondering to what extent this is a reply to my post. In a properly designed, framework, this has nothing to do specifically with a file picker, but it has to do with theming.


I'm pretty confident a simple solution exists.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 15:59, 06 February 18
This was an answer to your post. With Juce, you can either use the native OS File picker, or use the JUCE one. The JUCE one can be customized. Since I did NOT want to use the JUCE one, I simply overrode the colors I needed (generic text color, background color, etc.). I guess there are some "file picker background" that CAN be overridden, but I never had to check for this.


Once again : the UI for the FilePicker you are seeing is NOT meant to be seen, in fact I never saw it myself! This is a JUCE specific bug with your Linux theming.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 22:02, 06 February 18
This was an answer to your post. With Juce, you can either use the native OS File picker, or use the JUCE one. The JUCE one can be customized. Since I did NOT want to use the JUCE one, I simply overrode the colors I needed (generic text color, background color, etc.). I guess there are some "file picker background" that CAN be overridden, but I never had to check for this.


Once again : the UI for the FilePicker you are seeing is NOT meant to be seen, in fact I never saw it myself! This is a JUCE specific bug with your Linux theming.

Wild guess... It may be related to GTK2 or GTK3 themes.

I can help with testing, I'll try to research a workaround in case it is related to that. Currently, is usable by typing in the location input because I can't read it :(

Anyway, thanks for looking at this and for supporting Linux!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 22:25, 06 February 18
I do not use any custom/JUCE File Picker (I explicitly indicate to use the native file picker), and that's the behavior I have always seen on Windows, Linux and Mac. So what you report is striking to me.
Since I never asked to use a Juce FilePicker (yet it uses one, for whatever reason), the color scheme is broken because I never implemented it.

Juce doesn't impose anything, I can create my own FilePicker, but I won't. I'll ask the devs if they have a solution.

Thank you for this explanation. Since the tracker is not open-source, we cannot test variants by ourselves. Can you share a minimal test project source code? Just a window, a button that opens the filepicker and that's it. Then we can easily test, report, test variants and offer something that works for us. It's probably the quickest way to find a solution that works well for everyone. What do you think?

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 23:19, 06 February 18
Don't worry, I'll use a VM and check for myself. I'll also ask the JUCE devs.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:32, 07 February 18
Actually, sending you a small EXE is a good idea. I'll try to do something by the end of the week, I'll PM you both. Thanks!

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 22:02, 07 February 18
Actually, sending you a small EXE is a good idea. I'll try to do something by the end of the week, I'll PM you both. Thanks!

Thanks!

I've been fiddling with the themes in my XFCE, both with GTK2 and GTK3, with no change.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:11, 10 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
@cpcitor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=531)
Please find attached an executable of a simple program which, when the button is clicked, opens the file picker. Can you test it and confirm me that you can see the NON-native file picker with Linux and your XFCE? Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 18:36, 10 February 18
Please find attached an executable of a simple program which, when the button is clicked, opens the file picker. Can you test it and confirm me that you can see the NON-native file picker with Linux and your XFCE? Thanks!

I see a file picker that does not look like usual file pickers, so I guess it is non-native.
Colors are readable.
See attached image.

* filepicker_.png
(37.57 kB, 600x500 - viewed 92 times)


Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 18:58, 10 February 18
I see a file picker that does not look like usual file pickers, so I guess it is non-native.
Colors are readable.
See attached image.

* filepicker_.png
(37.57 kB, 600x500 - viewed 92 times)


Yes, same here... but, hey! I CAN READ THAT! So for me, is success!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 19:07, 10 February 18
Thanks a lot. The fact that it is readable is only because it uses the native JUCE colors. I'll file a bug, since the native OS File Picker should be seen.
If they don't want to correct this, I am still able to override the right colors to make it readable, so it will eventually look right :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 22:43, 10 February 18
At least you all are getting file pickers...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:19, 11 February 18
It seems JUCE is looking for the FilePicker exe called "kdialog" and "zenity". It probably doesn't find them, and uses its own FIlePicker as a fallback. Does it make sense to any of you?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 15:30, 11 February 18
It seems JUCE is looking for the FilePicker exe called "kdialog" and "zenity". It probably doesn't find them, and uses its own FIlePicker as a fallback. Does it make sense to any of you?

Yes, it does. kdialog is part of KDE (not XFCE); Zenity is a Gnome app to show dialogs. I'm surprised JUCE is using those. For example, Zenity description is "Display graphical dialog boxes from shell scripts", so it is a weird thing to use from a native GUI app I think.

Anyway, I installed Zenity and now the dialogs are OK (is not XFCE, but the theme is OK).

Perhaps it would be useful to mention that in the docs or something like that (that you need either kdialog or zenity installed).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 16:10, 11 February 18
@Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110) another issue (sorry), not sure if is known or not.

I'm trying to export a STarKos song into an AKL bin and I only get a crash (exported file 0 bytes).

Exporting to source works fine though.

You can reproduce it with Dea on Time in game music song.

Other times gets stuck using CPU and nothing happens, until it crashes.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:19, 11 February 18
Ok thanks for all this information. For the crash, I'm looking into it. As for the File Picker, I'll improve the color scheme so that the JUCE file picker shows right, and I'll post on the website the information you provided. Thanks!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:54, 11 February 18

@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504) Mmmh, I can not reproduce on Windows and Linux, on the released alpha version. I tested for Dead On Time Ingame and Main menu songs, exported to Binary, Lightweight format. Is it what you tried to do?

Does it happen for any other STarKos song or only these ones?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 22:13, 11 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504) Mmmh, I can not reproduce on Windows and Linux, on the released alpha version. I tested for Dead On Time Ingame and Main menu songs, exported to Binary, Lightweight format. Is it what you tried to do?

Does it happen for any other STarKos song or only these ones?

Yes, it happens when exporting binary in lightweight format; with any song.

The problem is related to the source profile; using Z80 with comments works. My profile only changes the byte and word declaration, but for some reason, that profile crashes all the time.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 22:43, 11 February 18
@Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110) Quick question! (sorry to be a pain)

How can I stop the music? I tried to stop calling PLY_LW_Play from my int handler, but that leaves the PSG in a state that may left noise behind. I haven't found this functionality in the code.

Basically, how do I mute all channels?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 00:29, 12 February 18
It seems JUCE is looking for the FilePicker exe called "kdialog" and "zenity". It probably doesn't find them, and uses its own FIlePicker as a fallback. Does it make sense to any of you?
Aha, I didn't have kdialog installed, it isn't required for Plasma (it allows file dialogs to be accessed via a shell script).
Installing kdialog fixes the problem.
Now all it needs is a volume control for audio output, it's a bit loud relative to pretty much any other application.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:39, 12 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
Ah, the profile thing is interesting. Something I have overlooked is that the binary generation can fail if you use mnemonics that are not understood by the embedded Rasm. One may think I should force a "base" z80 profile internally! But it is not so simple: potentially the user can use any profile he wants (for 68000 or 6802 processor). But the failing assembling has been managed, it should show a message, and shouldn't crash. Please give me the fields of your profile, I'll check that.

@mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89)
Now I understand your previous-previous message, please don't be so cryptic :). So no File Picker is shown, unless you install kdialog, is that right? Can you give me your OS configuration? Thanks.   
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:40, 12 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
Quote
How can I stop the music? I tried to stop calling PLY_LW_Play from my int handler, but that leaves the PSG in a state that may left noise behind. I haven't found this functionality in the code.

This has been added in my players, and will be available in the next release. If you're in a hurry I can give you the snippet.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 01:09, 12 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
Ah, the profile thing is interesting. Something I have overlooked is that the binary generation can fail if you use mnemonics that are not understood by the embedded Rasm. One may think I should force a "base" z80 profile internally! But it is not so simple: potentially the user can use any profile he wants (for 68000 or 6802 processor). But the failing assembling has been managed, it should show a message, and shouldn't crash. Please give me the fields of your profile, I'll check that. 

There you are!

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 01:09, 12 February 18
@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504)
This has been added in my players, and will be available in the next release. If you're in a hurry I can give you the snippet.

I can wait. I found a way to manage it (I think). Looking forward to the next release!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:42, 12 February 18

@reidrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504) Ok, so this is normal, Rasm doesn't understand these. But my remark before is actually wrong: I should force a standard Profile when exporting to binary and add a note indicating the binary is for z80. This is an oversight I will correct.
In the meantime, simply use a more conventional profile when exporting to binary and all will be fine. Sorry for the inconvenience!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 10:46, 12 February 18
@mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89)
Now I understand your previous-previous message, please don't be so cryptic :). So no File Picker is shown, unless you install kdialog, is that right? Can you give me your OS configuration? Thanks.   

It either did nothing, or would sometimes lock up for a period.

Arch Linux x86_64, kernel 4.15.1, KDE Plasma 5.12, Qt 5.10
CPU is 3.7GHz i3-6100, 8GB RAM
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 11:36, 12 February 18
@mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89) But now, with kdialog installed, does it work fine (showing the native file picker?)?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mahlemiut on 22:50, 12 February 18
@mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89) But now, with kdialog installed, does it work fine (showing the native file picker?)?
Yes, now it's fine. (Just a bit loud ;))
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 10:03, 13 February 18
@mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89) But now, with kdialog installed, does it work fine (showing the native file picker?)?

I confirm using strace that the application checks for kdialog and zenity, and none of those was installed.

I installed zenity and now get a native file picker which respects my local theme (since it's zenity indeed).

Let's try to summarize:

* an app (JUCE or anything else) with some custom colors can easily gets unreadable areas and it's impossible for the developer to test the many appdialogs*platforms*theme_engine*theme_colors combinations.
* a plain JUCE app, no custom color, is displayed with JUCE theme (not native theme) and the JUCE file picker is readable
* if kdialog or zenity is installed, the app uses it, showing a file picker with native (thus readable) theme instead of JUCE theme. Thus a little inconsistency but no big deal IMHO.

Is this a faithful summary?


Cheers!





(Only for those who like extra head scratching: what happens if both zenity and kdialog are installed? Does JUCE check what desktop environment is running?)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:07, 13 February 18
Good summary, yes.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 10:09, 13 February 18
Good summary, yes.

Thanks for taking care of providing a test app.  :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 11:07, 13 February 18
The guys from JUCE told me that I could embed KDialog to AT2. However, I'm a bit afraid to do that. I think it is better if I:
- Correct the color scheme of the JUCE file picker.
- Tell in the "troubleshooting" section of the AT2 website about Zenity or KDialog if the users want the native dialog (or if like @mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89) , the file picker freezes).


What do you think? I'm really not fond of including dependencies like that, I'm pretty sure this will bring more problems that it will solve.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 20:28, 13 February 18
The guys from JUCE told me that I could embed KDialog to AT2. However, I'm a bit afraid to do that. I think it is better if I:
- Correct the color scheme of the JUCE file picker.
- Tell in the "troubleshooting" section of the AT2 website about Zenity or KDialog if the users want the native dialog (or if like @mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89) , the file picker freezes).


What do you think? I'm really not fond of including dependencies like that, I'm pretty sure this will bring more problems that it will solve.

Relaying on an external app to do dialogs sounds...

Not sure, but documenting dependencies is probably best. Linux users should know how to install them, so I'd say: keep it simple.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: cpcitor on 12:03, 21 February 18
The guys from JUCE told me that I could embed KDialog to AT2. However, I'm a bit afraid to do that. I think it is better if I:
- Correct the color scheme of the JUCE file picker.
- Tell in the "troubleshooting" section of the AT2 website about Zenity or KDialog if the users want the native dialog (or if like @mahlemiut (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89) , the file picker freezes).


What do you think? I'm really not fond of including dependencies like that, I'm pretty sure this will bring more problems that it will solve.

You're probably pretty right. Embedding kdialog reliably may imply a lot of more-or-less-heavy lifting. What you suggests means : (1) making sure things are readable anyway (2) offering a user-selectable alternative. And I'm fine with that!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 01:25, 28 February 18
Breaking news! Arkos Tracker 2 V2.0.0 a2 has been released! Go the website  (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/)to download (and hopefully enjoy) it!


A few features:



Thanks to everyone who tested it and helped improved Arkos Tracker.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Sice on 20:19, 08 April 18
Hey Targhan,


Thanks for the new version, it's great :-). I've been having some fun writing some new patterns.


I posted a few comments in the specific forum. I wanted to ask, because of the way I write songs (short bursts of inspiration) I often create 1 or two tracks at a time when building my song. Would it be possible to have the ability to save a track to disk, so that I could give it a long descriptive name e.g. 'Main melody - hard bass and drums'? I can imagine this might be a little tricky to implement, especially if you try and load this track into another song that doesn't have the same instruments. Maybe on import it could have a popup box where you choose what instruments in your song to map to the imported pattern?


After working on a song for some time I tried importing a previously saved drum sample from a .MOD file, but when I try and import it into an existing FM instrument nothing happens. It seems you can do this the other way around though..try importing a MOD file, then load a previously saved FM instrument to replace one of the samples - this seems to work.


Thanks again for an awesome tool!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:43, 09 April 18
Importing a track... Tricky indeed. I'll think about it!


As for your import problem, I'll check this this evening. Thanks for the report!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 16:22, 11 May 18
A new version (a3) has just been released!


A lot was done in this released, including:

- Adapted all the players to MSX, Spectrum.
- Added a MOD player (CPC-only, limited effects).
- Created a specific Lightweight player for the SHARP MZ 700, as well as the sound effect player.
- Added a AKY player that uses the 6-channel of the TurboSound extension for Spectrum.
- Added a AKY player that uses the 9-channel of the Spectrum Next.
- RAW and AKG export (via UI and command line) now integrate sample export.
- Added new parameters in all the command line tools to set the source profiles (change mnemonics, etc.).
- In the PSGs, the mixing type can be set (ABC, ACB, BCA etc.).
- In the Output Panel of the Setup, and the WAV Exporter, the volume of each channel (left/center/right) can be defined.
- In the Source Profiles, added the possibility to encode "one mnemonic type per line" (especially useful for 68000 assemblers). Also available for all the command line tools.
- Added a basic DC offset removal on WAV export.


Plus a lot of smaller additions and bug fixes. Download it here (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/download/)!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 09:58, 12 May 18
A new version (a3) has just been released!


A lot was done in this released, including:

- Adapted all the players to MSX, Spectrum.
- Added a MOD player (CPC-only, limited effects).
- Created a specific Lightweight player for the SHARP MZ 700, as well as the sound effect player.
- Added a AKY player that uses the 6-channel of the TurboSound extension for Spectrum.
- Added a AKY player that uses the 9-channel of the Spectrum Next.
- RAW and AKG export (via UI and command line) now integrate sample export.
- Added new parameters in all the command line tools to set the source profiles (change mnemonics, etc.).
- In the PSGs, the mixing type can be set (ABC, ACB, BCA etc.).
- In the Output Panel of the Setup, and the WAV Exporter, the volume of each channel (left/center/right) can be defined.
- In the Source Profiles, added the possibility to encode "one mnemonic type per line" (especially useful for 68000 assemblers). Also available for all the command line tools.
- Added a basic DC offset removal on WAV export.


Plus a lot of smaller additions and bug fixes. Download it here (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/download/)!

I need to look at this but, any relevant changes on the lightweight player?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 12:07, 12 May 18
Unless I'm wrong, a few lines were changed to correct an access to the PSG. A trick is used (courtesy of Madram) to accelerate the access to the PSG, and the ordering of the OUT was slightly wrong. It works but on a real CPC, the cassette relay was turned on whenever the music started. Check your production on a real CPC, if you don't hear a "click" from the cassette relay, then you already have the right version! But it's very easy to correct, don't worry.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 15:04, 12 May 18
Unless I'm wrong, a few lines were changed to correct an access to the PSG. A trick is used (courtesy of Madram) to accelerate the access to the PSG, and the ordering of the OUT was slightly wrong. It works but on a real CPC, the cassette relay was turned on whenever the music started. Check your production on a real CPC, if you don't hear a "click" from the cassette relay, then you already have the right version! But it's very easy to correct, don't worry.
Have you changed something to the binary export of sound FX ? Because now all works on my converted version for SDCC  ::)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 15:43, 12 May 18
No change at all, if I remember right.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 16:32, 12 May 18
Unless I'm wrong, a few lines were changed to correct an access to the PSG. A trick is used (courtesy of Madram) to accelerate the access to the PSG, and the ordering of the OUT was slightly wrong. It works but on a real CPC, the cassette relay was turned on whenever the music started. Check your production on a real CPC, if you don't hear a "click" from the cassette relay, then you already have the right version! But it's very easy to correct, don't worry.

I'm aware of that issue; will update my version. Thanks!

EDIT: done, it was a minor change. Thanks for this!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: TCMSLP on 20:16, 11 June 18



Does anyone have a workaround for copy/paste?  I'm loving the power of this but having difficulty composing without the ability to copy a pattern and modify.




TCM/SLP
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 20:27, 11 June 18
Yes : just wait a little bit more, copy/paste in the pattern is due to the next release :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 22:55, 11 June 18
Yes : just wait a little bit more, copy/paste in the pattern is due to the next release :).

\o/
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 15:05, 21 June 18
Targhan,

I prefer to use my (dying) 6128 to convert Amiga mods to CPC (to make sure volumes sound "about right" in the internal speaker), then check volumes/slides on my PC in Arkos 1.0 (as STarkos slides can be completely wrong in some circumstances).

I will have to admit that I have not read this entire thread, so apologies if this has already been answered, but are you going to release a CPC native Arkos 2.0 tracker for those of us who still prefer to use an Amstrad to PC/Mac?

Thanks in advance,
- JTMS... (aka SuTeKH/Epyteor)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:30, 21 June 18
Hi,


No, Arkos Tracker will never be "ported" to CPC, and STarKos will not be updated anymore, I'm sorry. However, one feature I could add would be to use, on medium-long term, the Wifi ability of the M4 Board to send the data directly to the CPC (which was doable with AT1 with MiniBooster... But no one used this feature!). Using the Albeiro should also work.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 00:04, 05 July 18
@Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110) I'm having trouble to add a RST note (* according to the manual online). Basically, it doesn't work :(
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 01:12, 05 July 18
You mean, the RST has no effect, or the key does not work? If the latter, go to Setup > Keyboard and remap the RST key to something to your liking!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: pelrun on 07:21, 05 July 18
Yeah, I had that too; the default key-mapping doesn't work. Either it's a locale thing or it's expecting the numberpad '*' rather than shift+8. I don't even *have* a keyboard with a numberpad these days!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 10:55, 05 July 18
Actually, the key is perfect for french AZERTY keyboard (it is left to the Enter key). For other keyboard, I admit I didn't think it would not work. I'll try to come up with a better key for the next version.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: pelrun on 13:00, 05 July 18
You guys had to deal with the weirdness of using ú as the bar symbol for RSXes on AZERTY, I think it's only fair those of us on QWERTY have to adapt for a change :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 09:58, 18 August 18
Hello,
here some ideas following to my use of Arkos2 :Arnaud
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 12:09, 18 August 18
Hi,


Quote
On loading instruments browse by default the arkos2/instruments directory
On loading songs browse by default the arkos2/songs directory




Not fond of these, because, in my experience, the arkos2/xxx directories are used only for testing, not for real composition. The last used folder is the last one that will be shown. Maybe have different "last" folders according to the type of what is loaded (song, instrument ?)


Quote
Add a contextual menu on instrument (faster than going to main menu to load another instrument)


Yes, I thought about it. Dully noted!


Quote
When loading a instrument i always have the Overwrite confirmation popup even it's a new instrument (i don't think this popup is really useful and it's annoying when testing instruments)


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pop-up should only show if the target instrument is empty.


I don't know exactly when the next version will be released, but I can tell you it will have many new features. I can't keep myself from adding new stuff... !


Thanks for your feedback!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 13:55, 18 August 18
The last used folder is the last one that will be shown. Maybe have different "last" folders according to the type of what is loaded (song, instrument ?)
Yes, it will be ok in this way.

Yes, I thought about it. Dully noted!
:)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pop-up should only show if the target instrument is empty.
I  Understand, when i add a new instrument by default it is "Single Beep". I should select "Empty".

I don't know exactly when the next version will be released, but I can tell you it will have many new features. I can't keep myself from adding new stuff... !
Great !

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 18:48, 18 August 18
Another need :
Ex with 3 lines selected :
E3 -> F3
F3 -> G3
G3 -> A3
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 21:25, 18 August 18
Yep, already done for the next release :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 21:41, 19 August 18
A last one (i'm trying to make music the last days)
A lot of famous songs were converted here http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/chipnsfx.htm and it will be great to be able to play it on Arkos2Even empty and not used all instruments are exported (and use some precious bytes)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 21:45, 19 August 18
Everything done in the next release :). (told you it was a big release :)).


The CHP import is "best effort" though. The sound structure is very different, so you will have to tweak them. But the notes are OK.


Quote
>Even empty and not used all instruments are exported (and use some precious bytes)
Hmmm, shouldn't be, only the used instruments are exported. Do you have proof? :)


Anyway, the export now optimizes the songs at the fullest.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 22:03, 03 September 18
Another idea :
- When exporting in binary file we have to set the starting address, and it could be useful to know the ending address.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 23:42, 03 September 18
As a general idea, you'd like to know how much the song will take, right? (without having to check the file by yourself)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 21:20, 04 September 18
As a general idea, you'd like to know how much the song will take, right? (without having to check the file by yourself)
Yes exactly and also know the memory area used by the song when exported in binary in order to easily found where to store it.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: freemac on 20:46, 07 September 18
Yes exactly and also know the memory area used by the song when exported in binary in order to easily found where to store it.
So compiling it before compiling it  :picard2:
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: MiGaNuTs on 21:05, 07 September 18
Another idea :
- When exporting in binary file we have to set the starting address, and it could be useful to know the ending address.

Exporting the binary file with the amsdos header ?

Exporting the compiled and relocated player + the song  + the amsdos header.
it will be very usefull for me :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: freemac on 21:15, 07 September 18
Exporting the binary file with the amsdos header ?

Exporting the compiled and relocated player + the song  + the amsdos header.
it will be very usefull for me :)
+ mixing song and sfx btw under same song file
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 12:09, 08 September 18
Quote
Exporting the binary file with the amsdos header ?

I'm not sure it would be a useful feature, since there are many software that do it for you, as stand alone files or when you insert them into DSK. Can you give me a use-case ?


Quote
+ mixing song and sfx btw under same song file


Well you can, but there is no point is doing so. The whole point of separating the music and sound effects is to be able to reuse your sound effects in any production regardless of the music you use. SFX and songs are encoded in totally separate ways, so there is no loss of space in creating one song for the music, and one song for the sound effects.
But if you want to do it, simply create your SFXs in the same song, and when you export your sound effects, simply discards the "music" sounds (only keep the sound effects). But really, this is less flexible.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: MiGaNuTs on 22:20, 11 September 18
Actualy i try to make a little demo, just for try and learn coding on CPC.
For the moment i use cpc-telera for the music, but i prefer to use my own music, i don't want to "steal" it from anyone.

Arkos tracker 2 is cool for composing mods, but to make usable files i need to use starkos tools + arkos player 1 + cpcdiskxp, and it's hard to find where is the fail when my music crash :/

A file "all in one" will make things easiest for me, especialy with futures features in javaCPC that i don't want to spoil ;-)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 23:07, 11 September 18
Then I don't understand how adding the Amsdos header is useful. Not that I'm against the idea, but I don't understand the purpose.
The Amsdos header will only be added to the music itself, not the player. So you will have to add it to the player anyway, with another tool. Why don't you use this tool with the music too?


I have no idea why your prod doesn't "like" the AT2 player, but I assure you it is supposed to work fine :).
My advice is: download Rasm, use it to compile the music and the player at specific location (for example, player in #3000, music in #4000), as a test. Load the binaries at these locations. Then, in your code, make a:
ld hl,#4000
xor a
call #3000 + 0     ;Initializes the song, subsong 0.


Then make a loop, synchronized with the video sync and at each frame:
call #3000 + 3      ;Plays one frame of the song.


This WILL work (makes sure your code doesn't overlap over the player and the music). If not, maybe you should ask for help on the CPCTelera forum, because the problem must be specific to it.
That's only the beginning. When it works, put the music and players at more handy location and then you can forget about it!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 23:09, 11 September 18
Addendum: assembling and testing your code is one part. Packaging it into a DSK is another. Makes the first part work first, THEN think about how to generate a DSK. There are many options, which I won't explain here. But this comes second.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 10:31, 07 October 18
Hello,
i have a problem when switching of song, randomly the function PLY_LW_Play doesn't return (infinity loop).

Here my situation (the music is played on interrupt) :
Code: [Select]
PLY_LW_Init(&IntroSong, 0);
Code: [Select]
    PLY_LW_Stop();
    PLY_LW_Init(&Empty_SongStart, 0);   
    PLY_LW_Init(&GameSong, 0);

Is the right way to switch of song ? Is the PLY_LW_Play function shall be stopped while switching of song or something else shall be done to synchronize the song start ?
Thanks, Arnaud
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 11:47, 07 October 18
First of all, if you can, you should use one song and multiple Subsongs, so that you can share their instruments/arpeggio/pitchs and thus save memories (and no, there is no merge yet...).


But if you use multiple songs:
- the stop method only cuts the PSG channels, but if you switch directly from one song to another, you don't need to call it.
- simply call the init method with the address of the next song, and play it normally.


So there is no need to stop/init with empty song/init second song like you're doing. Simply call the init second song.
If there is an infinite loop, please send me your song and I'll check what is happening.


Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 20:10, 11 October 18
hi Targhan,
I seem to be having trouble finding how to change the master clock in arkos tracker 2, i was hoping to change it to 1.5Mhz (for vectrex music)

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:58, 12 October 18
What is the problem exactly? Go to Edit > Song Properties > Click the "edit" button near the PSG at the bottom and set the clock to 1500000 at the top left (use "custom") (just noticed a misnamed label here...).


Does an error occur during one of these steps?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 23:27, 12 October 18
hey Targhan sorry about that, i see it now i missed it before   ???

one thing i have noticed is, if i use my mouse scroll wheel mouse (laptop touchpad) scroll to try to scroll up and down in the pattern window, it doesnt work,  do you use mouse scrolling there yourself and it works ok for you?   (my mouse scrolling works ok in the original arkos tracker pattern window)

also i was wondering if it might be useful to allow for pressing keys to hear an instrument when you are over on the lower left in the list of instruments

ps. i am using a laptop so dont have much screen height so had to kind of crush down some of the windows like the 'test area' and the 'expressions', and the 'wafeforms view' at the top (i attached a pic)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 02:16, 13 October 18
Yes, mouse should scrolls perfectly, especially in the pattern window. On what OS are you? If you use the scrollbar on the right, does it work?


As for the screen being too crowded, there will be significant improvements in the next release, and I have more plans for the release about that!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 18:32, 13 October 18
ace that's great news about the lower resolution users screen overcrowding issue being addressed.  if it's useful info to you, it looks like 1366x768 is still the most popular desktop resolution:
http://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resolution-stats/desktop/worldwide (http://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resolution-stats/desktop/worldwide)


i am using windows 7 64bit and the scrollbar on the right works ok yes


when i try to use the mouse (laptop touchpad) scroll, the little windows mouse scroll icon is displayed (like in the pic below), but the scrolling itself does not occur
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bv8jY78b/pic.png)

i have noticed, if i click (left mouse click) in upper or lower positions in the pattern window, i can move up and down that way (same behaviour as in the original arkos tracker)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:00, 19 October 18

@vtk (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2407) Strange, I can't reproduce this. I tested on my ASUS laptop, on both Linux and Windows bits, the scrolling using the trackpad works perfectly.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:02, 19 October 18
@vtk (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2407) Strange, I can't reproduce this. I tested on my ASUS laptop, on both Linux and Windows bits, the scrolling using the trackpad works perfectly.



@Arnaud (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1424) Any development on your bug? You didn't send me your songs for me to test.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 03:28, 20 October 18
@vtk (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2407) Strange, I can't reproduce this. I tested on my ASUS laptop, on both Linux and Windows bits, the scrolling using the trackpad works perfectly.


hey thanks for looking into it, i think i will try some different touchpad drivers for my laptop, maybe that will fix the issue for me
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:51, 20 October 18
I guess the touchpad works perfectly with any other application? Do not go crash your laptop just for AT2 :) .
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: vtk on 00:31, 22 October 18
well it turned out to be touchpad drivers,  it's a real pain in the a$$ laptop
if i use an older version of the drivers, the touchpad works well with everything except the scroll in arkos tracker II,
however if i use latest drivers, then the scroll works in arkos tracker II but the touchpad itself behaves poorly (it feels like it is 'faulty')
so i expect i will install the old drivers again..........


edit:  phew, fixed it now.  i found some drivers in-between the newest version and the older version i was using, and for those in-between drivers, all of my problems are fixed now and everything works   :D
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 16:08, 22 October 18
Everything was perfect on Linux, but on Windows, I also had to update my drivers (the scrolling didn't work at all, for any application). Morality: use Linux :) . Glad you could work this out, though.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 19:26, 05 November 18

I am very proud to announce a new release of Arkos Tracker 2 (alpha 4)!


It includes a lot of features and it was a hard work to code all of them, but they will help you produce the best sounding productions ever!


You can download the binaries here (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/download/).


What's new? Here are the main features:
- Copy/paste in the Pattern Viewer (plus a contextual menu, allowing to transpose notes quickly).
- UI overhaul: more space for the Pattern Viewer.
- Generate arpeggios from the selected notes.
- YM Analyser tool: read any YM and extract sounds to use in your own tunes (very useful for drums)!
- Player optimizations via a unique feature called "player configuration": the players now adapt to the songs. Only the parts that are required are compiled. As a result, you can save a lot of memory and CPU!
- Chip'n'Sfx and Vortex Tracker 2 import.
- ... among other smaller features and bug fixes!


I will try to make smaller and more frequent release next time :) .


Enjoy!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 20:27, 05 November 18
Excellent news @Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110) !

I hope the lightweight player didn't change much so it's not too hard to port the changes to my SDCC port!

EDIT: oh, the diff is pretty big  :-\ I'll see when I have the time to port the changes. If the song format has changed, I may not be able to use this version of the tracker until I finish with the Player :'(
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 21:47, 05 November 18
Don't worry about the format, only the first few bytes have changed at the very beginning (I added the initial speed, which I forgot!).


What has really change is the conditional assembling, in order to optimize the code according to your song(s). If you're afraid of compatibility, check out this page (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/compatibility/) about a trick to use the player with any assembler (but it must been on a fixed address).


My advice is: don't convert the player anymore, simply use a fixed address for it and be done with it. Much simple and using one fixed address is (probably) not the end of the world.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 00:45, 06 November 18
My advice is: don't convert the player anymore, simply use a fixed address for it and be done with it. Much simple and using one fixed address is (probably) not the end of the world.

It certainly makes things harder and less flexible, but yes... not the end of the world.

I'll think about it, although to be honest, the previous version works aces (used in Kernel), so I'm not in a hurry anyway.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:52, 06 November 18
Quote
It certainly makes things harder and less flexible, but yes... not the end of the world.
I don't exactly know why, because imagine you put your player/music at the bottom of the memory (in #50 for example), then you can add all the remaining code just after without any problem.

Quote
I'll think about it, although to be honest, the previous version works aces (used in Kernel), so I'm not in a hurry anyway.
Yes, but with the new player, you will gain quite a lot of memory and CPU.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 00:56, 06 November 18
I don't exactly know why, because imagine you put your player/music at the bottom of the memory (in #50 for example), then you can add all the remaining code just after without any problem.
Yes, but with the new player, you will gain quite a lot of memory and CPU.

Nope, I don't do that. It is the linker that decides where things go. That's what I mean by flexibility and even when I mix my ASM code with C code, the assembled code is relocatable until the linker generates the final binary.

It's OK, on MSX I have to do it like that because the player can't run from ROM (self modifying code).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:58, 06 November 18
Maybe your linker can be told where binaries can be added and thus, will correct our little problem for you?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 01:00, 06 November 18
Maybe your linker can be told where binaries can be added and thus, will correct our little problem for you?

Nope because when rasm builds the player it is fixed to one address, isn't it? Is not relocatable.

No worries. Keep up the good work on Arkos 2!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 01:03, 06 November 18
Yes indeed, but since you have a linker, I'm sure it can be told "put a binary in #100", "put that anywhere you want", "put this in #3000". Thus you could simply declare that the player/music can be in #50, and leave the detail of compilation of the other resources wherever the linker wants.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 01:06, 06 November 18
Yes indeed, but since you have a linker, I'm sure it can be told "put a binary in #100", "put that anywhere you want", "put this in #3000". Thus you could simply declare that the player/music can be in #50, and leave the detail of compilation of the other resources wherever the linker wants.

I'll investigate that, now that you mention it, is possible it may work.

The good thing with the linker is that it won't leave gaps and the result is very compact (e.g. in Kernel the player starts in 9BE5h, and I don't care!). If I can place the player perhaps on its own section on a fixed address, that could work!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: kawickboy on 11:48, 06 November 18
Is there any list of chiptunes made with arkos tracker 2 ? Well known musicians using it ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 23:02, 06 November 18
Well no, but you can listen to some music made with AT2 on the website (ok, there are only 2 on them. Maybe I could include more :)).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 16:43, 08 November 18
I do have a version of "Cocio & Finsprit" that supports multiple AYs (via the beta AT2) but I think most people would not be interested in it! ^_^
I was going to use AT1 and SyX's plAycity code, but I am lazy and not very good at Z80 coding!

Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 20:33, 11 November 18
Just played with it and i tried to load CHP musics converted by CNGSoft.
It works pretty well and it's really nice to see how the those great tunes were done  :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 22:07, 11 November 18
The CNG Soft format is really different, so the import is "best effort". Drums for example are not well managed during the import (most of the time, simply modify the instrument to remove the "sound" (type of sound = 0)).
But this should be enough to finish a song made with Chip'n'sfx, into AT2 (which is the purpose of the imports).


Did you like the new UI better (with the VuMeters besides the Linker)?


In the next version, the Expressions (Arpeggio/Pitch) will be removed and put at the same level as the Pattern Editor/Instrument Editor, which will save even more space.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 22:16, 11 November 18
Did you like the new UI better (with the VuMeters besides the Linker)?

Yes it's really better, there is more room for the pattern editor.
Now i have to see how works the new export, if i understand there is configuration file to include in the compilation ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:21, 12 November 18
Quote
Now i have to see how works the new export, if i understand there is configuration file to include in the compilation ?
Yes, everything is explained on this page (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/player-configuration/). But be aware that you don't HAVE to use it if you don't want to (so, there is nothing to do). But it would be a shame not to use it, this really saves quite a lot of memory on the AKG/Lightweight players.


This also requires Rasm, unless you assembler accept the same IFDEF mnemonic (for compatibility tricks, check here (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/compatibility/)).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 22:02, 15 November 18
Hi,i just try the new LW player with configuration file and i have now 147 more free bytes !
Nice job.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 00:27, 16 November 18
Not bad, but I expected something better. I made a test with both your songs (since you sent them to me :)), and I won #10f bytes (271) from the player, which is better. How did you calculate your 147 free bytes?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 11:05, 16 November 18
I see that your are using volume effects. Since you're using only a bit of them, you would optimize a lot by removing all the volume effects and duplication/modifying your instruments, applying the required volume to them. This way, all the effect management code would be ditched, it would save a lot of memory from the player.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 12:47, 17 November 18
Not bad, but I expected something better. I made a test with both your songs (since you sent them to me :) ), and I won #10f bytes (271) from the player, which is better. How did you calculate your 147 free bytes?
It's the usable free memory, the full gain (code optim + better music generation) is ~370bytes
I see that your are using volume effects. Since you're using only a bit of them, you would optimize a lot by removing all the volume effects and duplication/modifying your instruments, applying the required volume to them. This way, all the effect management code would be ditched, it would save a lot of memory from the player.
I have to remove the modification of the volume in each instrument (in volume column next to noise column ?)  and set to a fixed value or it's a specific effect ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:30, 17 November 18
No, remove the use of the volume effect in the patterns (V effect). Then in the generated "config" file, you won't see the "useEffects" line. The gain is quite substantial.
And obviously, lower the volumes of your instruments instead (the "volume" column besides the "noise" column).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 11:03, 18 November 18
No, remove the use of the volume effect in the patterns (V effect). Then in the generated "config" file, you won't see the "useEffects" line. The gain is quite substantial.
And obviously, lower the volumes of your instruments instead (the "volume" column besides the "noise" column).
I tried to remove the volume effect, but it doesn't work very well because i haven't succeded to apply correctly the same volume drop for all instruments.

Is there a way to apply a volume overall to a song as do with speed ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 16:48, 18 November 18

Quote
>I tried to remove the volume effect, but it doesn't work very well because i haven't succeded to apply correctly the same volume drop for all instruments.

It shouldn't be very hard, if the volume is E, decrease each line of your instrument volume of 1. D = 2, and so on...


No, there isn't a way to decrease the song volume, but you can do it programmatically quite easily. AFTER initializing the song, you can set in labels:
PLY_LW_Track1_TrackInvertedVolume / PLY_LW_Track2_TrackInvertedVolume / PLY_LW_Track3_TrackInvertedVolume
how many volume step to decrease. This will not affect the sound effects.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 18:03, 18 November 18
It shouldn't be very hard, if the volume is E, decrease each line of your instrument volume of 1. D = 2, and so on...
The volume of the track is 9 then i have to drop the volume of each instrument of 6.
How to handle the case of instrument with volume droping from F to 0 or volume < 6 ?

No, there isn't a way to decrease the song volume, but you can do it programmatically quite easily. AFTER initializing the song, you can set in labels:
PLY_LW_Track1_TrackInvertedVolume / PLY_LW_Track2_TrackInvertedVolume / PLY_LW_Track3_TrackInvertedVolume
how many volume step to decrease. This will not affect the sound effects..
It could be a good solution.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:32, 18 November 18

Quote
How to handle the case of instrument with volume droping from F to 0 or volume < 6 ?
Unless I don't understand, simply make your instrument volume go from 9 to 1. This will even save a bit of memory :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 18:50, 18 November 18
Unless I don't understand, simply make your instrument volume go from 9 to 1. This will even save a bit of memory :)
Oh yes, simply  :D
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 21:11, 25 November 18
It shouldn't be very hard, if the volume is E, decrease each line of your instrument volume of 1. D = 2, and so on...


No, there isn't a way to decrease the song volume, but you can do it programmatically quite easily. AFTER initializing the song, you can set in labels:
PLY_LW_Track1_TrackInvertedVolume / PLY_LW_Track2_TrackInvertedVolume / PLY_LW_Track3_TrackInvertedVolume
how many volume step to decrease. This will not affect the sound effects.

As always i'm looking for memory, so i'd to try this solution,
 in Arkos2 player i found PLY_LW_Track1_TrackInvertedVolume in
Code: [Select]
;Data block for channel 1.:but i haven't found PLY_LW_Track2_TrackInvertedVolume or PLY_LW_Track3_TrackInvertedVolume  in
Code: [Select]
;Data block for channel 2 or 3:How set volume for channel 2 or 3 ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 21:39, 25 November 18
That's because the other "track data items" are not declared, as they are always the same, relative to the beginning of the "track data".


Simply do:
InvertedVolume1 = PLY_LW_Track1_Data + PLY_LW_Data_OffsetTrackInvertedVolume
InvertedVolume2 = PLY_LW_Track2_Data + PLY_LW_Data_OffsetTrackInvertedVolume
InvertedVolume3 = PLY_LW_Track3_Data + PLY_LW_Data_OffsetTrackInvertedVolume

But this "channel" volume technique may not save you memory. The "decrease the instruments volume" technique saves a few bytes (the sounds are shorter)... unless you have to duplicate the instruments! In which case, yes, the technique above will be more interesting, memory-wise.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Rhino on 16:53, 12 December 18
Hi Targhan,Congratulations on your great work!
In order to make the source code compatible with Maxam (WinAPE assembler), it would be good to do some small modifications:

* ;; instead of ; in the comments to be able to use : in the comment
* LET before assembly variable assignments (e.g  LET PLY_CFG_UseHardwareSounds = 1)
* remove : before EQU
* out (c),0 is not supported, use db &ed,&71 ;; out (c),0
* and possibly something else...
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 21:03, 12 December 18
Thanks. You can, to some extend, change the syntax of the generated music via File > Setup > Source profiles.


However, this won't address your problem with the players. I do not target Winape because I need the comfort/features of more elaborated assemblers, such as Rasm or SJasmPlus. So you will have to correct the player for your needs (which is why the sources are provided :) ), or use another assembler. Plus, the parenthesis and multiplication / division order will not work with Winape. Sorry but I won't go back to this assembler.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 11:34, 24 December 18
Ah, Christmas morning. Finally had some time to take a look at Arkos Tracker 2 on my Ubuntu box.

Not trying to ruin your Christmas here (and I know I can't, so no worries), but I gotta say first impression isn't that great.  :(
I haven't read through this thread, so maybe someone has already given similar feedback, I dunno.

The most important thing for me when tracking is to be able to keep the flow. So I want the application to be customizable to the keys I'm used to working with. Such as SPACE to stop the track playing, and SPACE to toggle record mode, CTRL to start the track, SHIFT+F4 to copy a track etc etc.

While you did include a way to define keys, I still can't define them like I want. CTRL can't be mapped. A single key can't be used for two functions. There's no way to copy a track (without marking all the notes first).

This ruins the flow for me, and I just can't work with that.

It also annoys me that I can only play instruments if cursor is placed in a certain column of the pattern, or I've select the keyboard at the bottom. Instruments should play regardless of where I'm positioned, but especially when editing an instrument.

So that's my wishlist.  :)

I know you probably won't (be able to) change any of that, but I wanted to give the feedback nevertheless.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:01, 24 December 18

Thanks for your feedback.


But please try harder :). Many keys can be remapped. Ctrl can not be mapped, this is normal. Do you know any modern application that allows that? This is a modifier, not a key. Copying a track is an oversight, this can be done for later version.


Why would you want two keys to be used in two functions?


My perception is that you're used to DOS trackers, which I never wanted to reproduce. Sometimes because I wouldn't, sometimes because it wouldn't fit a Windows (/Linux/Mac) application.


>It also annoys me that I can only play instruments if cursor is placed in a certain column of the pattern, or I've select the keyboard at the bottom. Instruments should play regardless of where I'm positioned, but especially when editing an instrument.

If you want to test an instrument, use the Test Area (F6). However, you point something interesting. In Record mode, the behavior is right. In non-record mode, you should be able to listen to the instrument. I'll try to change that in the next release.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 13:08, 24 December 18
Ctrl can not be mapped, this is normal. Do you know any modern application that allows that?

Renoise and Milkytracker, the two trackers I use, both have these keys mapped to that functionality.

SPACE stops the track playing in both trackers. CTRL starts the track playing. Goes for both Windows and Linux versions.

Why would you want two keys to be used in two functions?

Simply because it's what I'm used to. As soon as I have to start thinking about which keys to press, it just takes the fun out of it.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 13:23, 24 December 18
I have Renoise, I can not map the left CTRL. The right, yes. But JUCE (the framework I use) does not allow that. Nothing I can do about it, sorry.

Quote
Why would you want two keys to be used in two functions?
Can you give me an example of what you want to achieve?


It would be a shame not to use AT2 only because of key strokes. This may be not perfect yet, but I'm sure we can reach a compromise somehow :) . But yes, JUCE has some limitations about the keys, which I noticed right from the start.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 14:13, 24 December 18
I have Renoise, I can not map the left CTRL. The right, yes. But JUCE (the framework I use) does not allow that. Nothing I can do about it, sorry.

Right CTRL key would be fine. That's how it is in Milkytracker and Renoise too. But I didn't expect it to be able. That's how it always is with new tech. Always something that's no longer possible. That's why I stick with old stuff. ;-)

Can you give me an example of what you want to achieve?

It's just a habit. I'm used to pressing SPACE to stop the track, and then press SPACE again to enter Record mode. It's the flow.
Needing to press anything else - especially if I need to use the mouse - just breaks the flow.

It would be a shame not to use AT2 only because of key strokes.

Except that key strokes are the main thing you use to control everything.

I would have to get used to another way of doing things, like e.g. Enter to start, ESC to stop, SPACE to toggle record mode. Absolutely possible - but I would keep pressing CTRL first every single time. And I'm not a fan of changes. I just don't see the point. Too lazy and too annoying.

A quick search reveals that JUCE has a method called isCtrlDown()[/quote], which I assume could be used to check. But I realize that would require some annoying workarounds in your code to add that. (https://docs.juce.com/master/classModifierKeys.html#a06514fc0170112636f4582b1f997de39)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:36, 24 December 18
Using CTRL as a primary key is not doable. The link you refer to shows that CTRL can be tested, but only in a specific context: a keystroke. But CTRL is NOT one. CTRL + A (for example) is. Trust me, I tried.


I won't implement double SPACE feature: to me it is not logical that a key has two functions. I can only suggest you learn how AT2 works. I'll try to improve it as time goes, but it is what it is!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 14:47, 24 December 18
I know. I didn't expect you to implement any changes.

And I know what it's like to work really hard, and then still have people "complain".

We're all impossible!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:51, 24 December 18

Quote
>I know. I didn't expect you to implement any changes.


But I will. The "copy track" and "play note when record off" are good ideas. Basically, I would hate losing a potential user just because of such tiny flaws.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 13:15, 04 January 19
Hello,
i'd to know if there is a way to play a digitalized sound with Arkos2.

It doesn't matter if the CPC cannot do anything while playing, i have in mind a start game sound or a door creaking for example.

And Happy new year  :)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:17, 04 January 19

Well, yes and no. AT2 itself handles samples very well: simply create a new sound and instead of choosing "PSG", choose "Sample" and browse your sample. It can be played in your song just like any other instrument.


However, a player mixing both PSG and Sample has yet to be made. But in your case, you could simply use the MOD player in the package and plays a song with only one pattern and one sample. It should do the trick nicely. There will be a small memory overhead because a whole MOD player would be embedded, but you can remove the code that doesn't interest you (like the effect management, etc.). And the player is really not big.


Another thing you can do is to find one of the many sample player out there. It's easy, it's only about sending as many volumes to the PSG as possible, to one channel, if possible every scanline (for a 16khz sound, but 8khz sounds are still OK on CPC). I'm sure some code can be found somewhere. You can still use AT2 to export the sample conveniently (to 4 bits, with compression, etc.).


Happy new year too :) .
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:29, 04 January 19
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96)
Quote
I'm used to pressing SPACE to stop the track, and then press SPACE again to enter Record mode. It's the flow.


I didn't understand you at first, but now I think I do. Space would not enter a "Record" mode, but would simply toggle pause/play, right?
My question was: what kind of "play". In AT2, and many other trackers, you have "play from cursor", "play from start of the song", "play pattern", "play song from pattern".


I was wondering what pressing space would do. I believe "play from start of the current pattern", and you still use click the "loop pattern" icon if you want to go further in the song (a CTRL Space could be used as a shortcut. Shift+Space toggle Record already).


What do you think? I still liked space to read the current note, but I could use Return (though it is currently set to "capture instrument", which I like).


Quote
SHIFT+F4 to copy a track


I wanted a shortcut to select the whole track, CTRL+T for example. I can do CTRL+SHIFT+C to copy the whole track (you can redefine it, of course).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 15:47, 04 January 19
I didn't understand you at first, but now I think I do. Space would not enter a "Record" mode, but would simply toggle pause/play, right?
My question was: what kind of "play". In AT2, and many other trackers, you have "play from cursor", "play from start of the song", "play pattern", "play song from pattern".

I wouldn't want SPACE to start anything. SPACE should stop the track (if playing). Otherwise it should toggle record-mode.Then I would want CTRL to play song from current pattern. (Yes I know you already said that's not possible).

Basically just load Protracker or Fasttracker and copy the keys and shortcuts from there.

I wanted a shortcut to select the whole track, CTRL+T for example. I can do CTRL+SHIFT+C to copy the whole track (you can redefine it, of course).

Again I would want the same as in Protracker, Fasttracker, Milkytracker etc.:
SHIFT+F3 = cut track.
SHIFT+F4 = copy track.
SHIFT+F5 = paste track
CTRL+F3 = cut pattern
CTRL+F4 = copy pattern
CTRL+F5 = paste pattern

If I have to learn new keys, I simply don't have the interest. Pressed for time as it is, means I'll drop whatever requires a lot of time, such as learning new keys and new effect commands. That's part of the reason why I never looked further into Renoise too.
It would also be awesome if all the effect commands used the same character as in Protracker, Fasttracker, Milkytracker etc. That's the one thing I like about OpenMPT: It allows you to use whatever set of effect commands you want. (But I don't like everything else in OpenMPT).

I'll probably stick with Milkytracker for the rest of my life.....
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 17:17, 04 January 19
Hello,
i tried to export my song with one digit sound. When i exported in AKG (it's the only song format that handle digit i think) i have a Visual C++ runtime error.
Maybe my input digit sound have not the right format.
Here the Arkos song and the wav.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:21, 04 January 19
Renoise use stop/start with space, I thought that what would wanted. That I can implement, because it is a toggle, so it is logical. But space as stop/record is illogical to me.


I can add the cut/copy/paste track shortcuts, I think they are relevant. There will be no such thing for patterns, because it is not the philosophy of STarkos/AT/AT2 to duplicate whole patterns, since a Track can be used in many patterns, it would be counter-intuitive and could create many mistakes.


Quote
It would also be awesome if all the effect commands used the same character as in Protracker, Fasttracker, Milkytracker etc.

No. I used letters instead of numbers to have a more friendly interface (U for up, D for down, A for arpeggio etc.). This is on purpose. Plus, moving the cursor on the letters explains what the effect is about.


Like any software, AT2 has a learning curve, but if you're not ready a spend a bit of time, it will not work for you indeed.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:28, 04 January 19
@Arnaud (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1424) Reproduced. I will correct this, thanks. However, AKG is NOT the format to play samples. You can only use the MOD player (use the RAW export, check the comments in the PlayerMod source to know what to do), or use you own sample player.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 17:37, 04 January 19
You can only use the MOD player (use the RAW export, check the comments in the PlayerMod source to know what to do), or use you own sample player.
For information, i have got another Visual C++ error with export RAW.
However, AKG is NOT the format to play samples.
In that case, what is the use of the option Sample export in the AKG export window ?


Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:45, 04 January 19
Don't worry, I'll correct this and give you a special version :). Strange, I never encountered it before and I tested many MODules.


In that case, what is the use of the option [size=0px]Sample export [/size]in the AKG export window ?
Good point. AKG is supposed to be "generic", in case "someone" want to extend the player and play samples, or if someone like you want to play samples on its own. On retrospect, maybe I should remove this...
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 17:56, 04 January 19
I've added a page about the MOD player (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/the-mod-player/), it was lacking.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 17:59, 04 January 19
...if someone like you want to play samples on its own. On retrospect, maybe I should remove this...
Write my own sampler player is far beyond my coding skill  :D
Don't worry, I'll correct this and give you a special version :) . Strange, I never encountered it before and I tested many MODules.
No hurry, i'm just trying Arkos2 features
I've added a page about the MOD player (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/the-mod-player/), it was lacking.
Yep, good idea
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 18:51, 04 January 19
@Arnaud (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1424) Your problem is actually very simple to correct: your sample is bigger than 64kb, so encoding a dw with a number bigger than 65535 shouldn't be possible, hence an abrupt termination... I should probably prevent the loading of samples that are bigger then 64kb, it's as simple as that.



Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Arnaud on 19:04, 04 January 19
@Arnaud (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1424) Your problem is actually very simple to correct: your sample is bigger than 64kb, so encoding a dw with a number bigger than 65535 shouldn't be possible, hence an abrupt termination... I should probably prevent the loading of samples that are bigger then 64kb, it's as simple as that.
It's logic, but i take a very short sample (2s), i have to setup a specific format to export or i have to convert my sample before importing into Arkos2 ?
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 19:22, 04 January 19
Actually, both. I wrote on article about sampling on the last Another World fanzine, which was spread last year (with a rather strange confidentiality). Maybe I should ask Hicks if he can publish it...


But anyway:
Before loading into AT2:
 - cut the sample as much as possible.
 - try to normalize it, but you don't have to.
Inside AT2:
 - when your sample is loaded, edit it and try to fiddle with the "volume ratio". On CPC, samples are better when compressed like hell.
On export:
 - Simply follow the steps of the MOD player page/source and you should be fine.


Playing sample is not easy on CPC, because it will most of time sounds like crap :). It's a lot of trial-and-error.
You can use a software editor to remove the low-end frequencies, boost the middle frequencies.


You can also use a command-line software called "SoX" that takes a sample, modify it (normalize, boost/remove frequencies, etc.) and save them. Then you can create a song with them. But it's always a bit boring to do...
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 20:03, 04 January 19
Renoise use stop/start with space, I thought that what would wanted. That I can implement, because it is a toggle, so it is logical. But space as stop/record is illogical to me.

It has nothing to do with logic. It has everything to do with habits; being used to how the interface of other trackers are.
To this day I'm still not used to the way Renoise works, because I work with it rarely. I would definitely have used it more if at least the interface keys had been the same as with previous trackers. But that's definitely part of the reason why I keep sticking with MOD and XM files. (Other reasons of course includes the intriguing challenge in the limitations).

I can add the cut/copy/paste track shortcuts, I think they are relevant. There will be no such thing for patterns, because it is not the philosophy of STarkos/AT/AT2 to duplicate whole patterns, since a Track can be used in many patterns, it would be counter-intuitive and could create many mistakes.

You'd copy whole patterns to edit them slightly afterwards. I know what you mean though.

No. I used letters instead of numbers to have a more friendly interface (U for up, D for down, A for arpeggio etc.). This is on purpose. Plus, moving the cursor on the letters explains what the effect is about.

Again, has nothing to do with logic - everything to do with habits.

Like any software, AT2 has a learning curve, but if you're not ready a spend a bit of time, it will not work for you indeed.

That's what I'm saying yes.
When pressed for time as I am, I simply don't have the time nor interest to get used to a new way of doing things. I've gotten too old and grumpy to put up with constant changes that I have to get used to.

I'm not complaining, just explaining.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 22:00, 04 January 19
Quote
I'm not complaining, just explaining.
Never said you were complaining :).


But then, what software did you use to compose your latest songs on CPC? If it's STarKos or AT1, I bet you had to learn a few shortcuts and change your habits.
Oh well, one size doesn't fit all, I guess.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: mr_lou on 22:11, 04 January 19
But then, what software did you use to compose your latest songs on CPC? If it's STarKos or AT1, I bet you had to learn a few shortcuts and change your habits.

Yes, I used STarKos for those tracks. I wasn't as old and grumpy back then as today.  ;)

I think it also matters a bit that it was on the CPC, which doesn't even have the keys I want to use. That probably makes it a bit more acceptable.

Not saying I'll never use Arkos Tracker 2. But I will need a lot more free time before it happens. If I do do a CPC track, I imagine I'll use STarKos again instead, probably with RetroVirtualMachine now. (All previous tracks of mine has been on real CPC).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 22:22, 04 January 19
@Arnaud (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1424) The article has been actually on the web for months (http://memoryfull.net/articles.php?id=4) (and I knew it... I even translated it... And forgot about it.)


You should use what's inside to convert your samples, and play them, instead of using AT2 which will only slow you down for what you want to do. If you have problems playing the sample, don't hesitate to ask.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 14:06, 13 January 19
@keith56 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1886) Some MSX guys have told me they would need a ROM player. They linked to your tutorial of what you did with AT1.
I'd like to do the same for AT2, as I'm sure some people would be interested (would you? :) ).


I'd do it this way, tell me if it sounds good to you. There would be a label that would be the modified data:
PLY_AKG_Variables: equ #1000     ;or whatever
PLY_AKG_Speed: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 0
PLY_AKG_CurrentNote: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 1
PLY_AKG_Whatever: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 2
...


What do you think?
This player could also be used for people wanting to make CPC+ games, or ROM productions.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: reidrac on 15:46, 13 January 19
@keith56 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1886) Some MSX guys have told me they would need a ROM player. They linked to your tutorial of what you did with AT1.
I'd like to do the same for AT2, as I'm sure some people would be interested (would you? :) ).


I'd do it this way, tell me if it sounds good to you. There would be a label that would be the modified data:
PLY_AKG_Variables: equ #1000     ;or whatever
PLY_AKG_Speed: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 0
PLY_AKG_CurrentNote: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 1
PLY_AKG_Whatever: equ PLY_AKG_Variables + 2
...


What do you think?
This player could also be used for people wanting to make CPC+ games, or ROM productions.

A ROM compatible player would be nice, but copying the player to RAM from ROM isn't a big deal and works well. So I guess it really depends on you having time to do it and if the ROM compatible version has any noticeable penalty on performance.
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 16:12, 13 January 19
The problem is not copying the player into RAM. Some people seems to complain that they want all the RAM for other purpose than a 2-3kb player, which is understandable on platform with only 16kb ram (which is the case of some MSX, using a MegaROM of 128kb).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: keith56 on 02:04, 14 January 19
It would certainly be interesting, One of the systems I've not tried yet is the NeoGeo - it's sound chip is backwards compatible with the AY - and sound is done via the Z80 - which only has 2k ram (the rest is rom)

I just did a search - I see that there is a 68000 version of Arkos2 for the Atari? that is very interesting to me... I'm planning my next game to be released on a large number of 6502, Z80 and 68000 systems - so that would certainly help!
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 01:08, 12 May 19
It is my privilege to present you a new release of Arkos Tracker 2, the 2.0.0 alpha 5 version!

It is a huge release for me as many things were done, UI and player wise. A quick overview:
Check out the website from my signature :).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: roudoudou on 11:02, 12 May 19
i need a playcity  8)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 12:55, 12 May 19
i need a playcity  8)
I have one !!! , it's time to compose something using those 9 channels  :laugh:
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: TotO on 12:59, 12 May 19
At less with 6ch! ;)
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 16:44, 12 May 19
Additional note: for those wanting to convert the player/songs into their assembler's syntax, everything is explained here (http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/index.php/source-conversion-with-disark/).
Title: Re: Arkos Tracker 2 - Released!
Post by: Targhan on 22:30, 17 May 19
I'd like to have a page to show all the productions that use Arkos Tracker 2 (on CPC or others. Only AT2, not AT1). It's for the software promotion!
Please contact me if you ever used my software, thanks!