This could be the headline of a thread coming up soon.
Meanwhile I need your help. I want to know about your favorite tools for CP/M. So what would you like to have in a kind of ROM disc? The typical tool / utility is only few KB's big, because a ROM has only 16 KB space.
Now tell me what do you like for CP/M?
Well how many ROMs would be needed to put the CPM version of protext on it ;)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:23, 11 June 15
Well how many ROMs would be needed to put the CPM version of protext on it ;)
That's actually too big. Maximum size is (currently) about 15.5 KB.[nb]Ok, I have one solution for that. But we can discuss that in another thread. I made a RAM disc dump including CP/M Plus and Prowort. The way to use it is to start FutureOS read that big chunk of data from disc to Expansion RAM, then jump to Amsdos and start CP/M Plus directly from RAM disc. A profile.sub file cares about anything else. So you can load CP/M Plus and Prowort in a very short time. If you're interested I will look it up, it should be somewhere on some disc IIRC.[/nb]
OK how about one of the CPM gui's? But I guess they are too big too. Is there a CPM tool akin to Norton commander?
Yes, NSWEEP (we already got that on a ROM for CP/M though) and there would be Z-Filer which would require the Z-system.
Now here it's really about smaller stuff. I think that BD04.COM would be a good candidate (very good disc check tool). But I'm open for suggestions.
Oh and it should be a single load tool. Not a multiload. :o
Hmmm, I use nswp frequently, not quite nc tho is it lol. There are some nice tools for putting a clock on the bottom line of the screen, or was that for the pcw only?
Ok! Anybody else coming up with an idea / request?
Only 16 KB? Humm... tricky. ;D
A tiny text editor, but I don't know if there is one little enough. But one easy to use, no that madness of ED !! ???
Quote from: MiguelSky on 11:59, 12 June 15
A tiny text editor, but I don't know if there is one little enough. But one easy to use, no that madness of ED !! ???
Oh, well... te, my CP/M text editor needs only 15 KB on disk:
[Guest@B00:] $ ls -l te.com
w-- 15 Kb 117 Rc b00:te .com
Quote from: MiguelSky on 11:59, 12 June 15
A tiny text editor, but I don't know if there is one little enough. But one easy to use, no that madness of ED !! ???
Such a ROM already exists :-)
Quote from: FloppySoftware on 14:37, 12 June 15
Oh, well... te, my CP/M text editor needs only 15 KB on disk:
[Guest@B00:] $ ls -l te.com
w-- 15 Kb 117 Rc b00:te .com
That's nice! Maybe we can use that one too, is surely has nice features. :-)
Slowly I'm thinking about a ROM generator as second stage of development. First I like to do 1 or 2 ROMs by hand to see how it works. :)
Also: We can use compression, Almasys talked about a compressor for CP/M creating .COM files. This would be perfect :-)
Quote from: MiguelSky on 11:59, 12 June 15
A tiny text editor, but I don't know if there is one little enough. But one easy to use, no that madness of ED !! ???
Perhaps read the manual & use it in conjunction with using ED before attacking ED?
No PIP on ROM?
Quote from: AMSDOS on 00:26, 13 June 15Perhaps read the manual & use it in conjunction with using ED before attacking ED?
I read it. It's a headache to handle :D
@FloppySoftware (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1162) : te by is a good option (the best for me, I told you) but surely it takes a entire ROM for its.
Quote from: MiguelSky on 01:18, 14 June 15
I read it. It's a headache to handle :D
@FloppySoftware (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1162) : te by is a good option (the best for me, I told you) but surely it takes a entire ROM for its.
I always used vde. But it's probably too large for 16k
Quote from: MiguelSky on 01:18, 14 June 15
I read it. It's a headache to handle :D
I drink too much coke! :D
There are a lot of editors called ED.COM. The one which is already in ROM is from HiSoft IIRC, not the one from the system disc. :)
I didn't get forward with this over the weekend, because I worked all time, let's see what the week will bring.
This totally suxx!!! I can't upload .ROM or .DSK files! And all the text and docs I typed it for you just got lost! So bad luck - I have no time to type it all again. >:( >:( >:(
Is there a document somewhere which describes the header/structure of a ROM for CP/M?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 19:28, 18 June 15
Is there a document somewhere which describes the header/structure of a ROM for CP/M?
Sure there is ... was... right before the forum software killed it. Therefore now only in German...
Enjoy... or wait until I translated it. ;-)
btw. ROM 4 is the one I just made. It contains BD as command.
Use my ROManager 2.07 to show the ROM contents. :)
Quote from: TFM on 18:21, 18 June 15
This totally suxx!!! I can't upload .ROM or .DSK files! And all the text and docs I typed it for you just got lost! So bad luck - I have no time to type it all again. >:( >:( >:(
Whoa! A Like from JTMS! That's reason enough to make an English version... working on that now... :)
EDIT: Ok, here I provide the new updated archive with all CP/M ROMs and with German and English documentation.
My own application ROM contains the commands BD (BD04.COM) and FIND. But it still has 7 KB free space.
I really like that te from floppy software. Will it fit?
Quote from: CraigsBar on 19:27, 19 June 15
I really like that te from floppy software. Will it fit?
I really don't get along with TE. Where is the exit key. And I'm tooo lazy to activate keys ccp ;-)
But I made a ROM for you (it's the 5th Acc Expansion ROM). Please try it.[nb]I did try, but I'm not familiar with TE. Seems to start at least and I can type.[/nb]. There is 1 KB free space left, if you suggest a small prog, then I can put it in for you. Enjoy TE! :)
Quote from: TFM on 20:39, 19 June 15
I really don't get along with TE. Where is the exit key. And I'm tooo lazy to activate keys ccp ;-)
Upsss!!!
You're right, no EXIT key on the CPC keyboard, that's inheritage from the PCW version. ;)
I'll amend it in the next version, I promise. ;)
But, you need to execute "setkeys keys.ccp" for sure (Hey! It's a CP/M program). :P
Quote from: TFM on 18:21, 18 June 15
This totally suxx!!! I can't upload .ROM or .DSK files! And all the text and docs I typed it for you just got lost! So bad luck - I have no time to type it all again. >:( >:( >:(
You probably forgot the discussion - it makes no sense uploading full-size files and taking space on the server when things can go down so much...
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:06, 20 June 15
You probably forgot the discussion - it makes no sense uploading full-size files and taking space on the server when things can go down so much...
Are you serious? A 16 KB ROM is a problem, while people upload high res pictures of few MB all the time? You should start saving the Euro instead of the Cents.[nb]And even a DSK is 10% of a picture only[/nb] :)
Quote from: FloppySoftware on 17:59, 20 June 15
Upsss!!!
You're right, no EXIT key on the CPC keyboard, that's inheritage from the PCW version. ;)
I'll amend it in the next version, I promise. ;)
But, you need to execute "setkeys keys.ccp" for sure (Hey! It's a CP/M program). :P
Sure had few sleep. Let me know it you need something else in ROM for CPC. [nb]Sorry, can't do this for the PCW at the moment.[/nb]
Ok, added SETKEYS to the Cruncher ROM. Which is needed for the TE ROM. I dunno if I can add keys.ccp too. Gotta give it a try, but I don't think it will work.
Here the new archive with everything :)
Quote from: TFM on 23:49, 21 June 15
Are you serious? A 16 KB ROM is a problem, while people upload high res pictures of few MB all the time? You should start saving the Euro instead of the Cents.[nb]And even a DSK is 10% of a picture only[/nb] :)
Because a picture can be useful; an unzipped dsk or ROM file is always wasteful. If nothing else this argument pushes for restrictions with image sizes, not for allowing waste in DSKs.
Back to topic, any other wishes for CP/M applications in ROM? Let me know! :)
Ok, added 2 more ROMs. They contain ZMAC and ZLINK (Acc 3 is expanded too). See archive, it contains the doc too. :)
I do not understand why a zipped 16KB file becomes 98KB, is it not possible to have a 16KB file?
The 98k contains 6 ROMs and docs not just 1 ROM
OK, Thanks, but it is still bigger than 96k.
Quote from: steve on 17:08, 01 July 15
OK, Thanks, but it is still bigger than 96k.
OK I have just done what you could have done. I downloaded it. I missed a few ROMs. The archive now has TEN ROM files and 4 documents. That kinda explains it don't you think? Thanks @TFM, it's great to see CPM getting some love. ;)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 21:15, 01 July 15
OK I have just done what you could have done. I downloaded it. I missed a few ROMs. The archive now has TEN ROM files and 4 documents. That kinda explains it don't you think?
Why should I download it, I have no use for it, I was simply asking why the file was larger than I thought it needed to be.
Curiosity?
Strange behaviour?
Quote from: CraigsBar on 21:15, 01 July 15
OK I have just done what you could have done. I downloaded it. I missed a few ROMs. The archive now has TEN ROM files and 4 documents. That kinda explains it don't you think? Thanks @TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179), it's great to see CPM getting some love. ;)
Thanks! Well, I guess I will add couple small things maybe and the put the "final" result somewhere in the net for everybody (cpcwiki, my hp or so). Guess I will wait a bit maybe some people like to have something in particular in ROM, so I can add it. :)
CP/M Plus is actually pretty neat! :)
Any hope to fit PIP somewhere? Or any other file copier.
And also HELP? I suppose it should be amended to describe the new utilities, but it would be nice to have.
Quote from: khaz on 23:41, 02 February 16
Any hope to fit PIP somewhere? Or any other file copier.
And also HELP? I suppose it should be amended to describe the new utilities, but it would be nice to have.
I think pip is already in the dragonbreed rom, or on one of the original cpm util roms
Sent from my A3-A30 using Tapatalk
I only looked in the pack from the futureos website, but I didn't see it.
QuoteNames of the application / expansion ROMs for CP/M Plus
-------------- ----------------------------------------
- CPM_Plus_Acc_1.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: NSWEEP, FORMAT, PCW, RUN, UNERA, D
- CPM_Plus_Acc_2.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: ECHO, ED, GOTO, IF, PATCH, XFORM, TIMEROM+
- CPM_Plus_Acc_3.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: UNCR, CRUNCH, UN33, SETKEYS
- CPM_Plus_Acc_4.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: BD, FIND
- CPM_Plus_Acc_5.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: TE
- CPM_Plus_Acc_6.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: ZMAC, COMFU
- CPM_Plus_Acc_7.ROM provides this set of commands / applications: ZLINK
Quote from: khaz on 02:23, 03 February 16
I only looked in the pack from the futureos website, but I didn't see it.
Yes, you can use NSWEEP, it's way more powerful than PIP.COM, it can copy files, type files, compress and way more. It actually inspired me aside of ZFILER for some early FutureOS concepts back the day. If you find some functionality in PIP.COM which you miss in NSWEEP.COM let me know and I make a ROM with PIP.COM for you. :)
To put HELP.COM in a ROM is a bit a problem, since the date file is about 60 KB (iirc).
Do you need anything else in a ROM? Let me know and I will help. :)
I checked the documentation for NSWEEP briefly, but even though it can do a lot of things, it seems to be at the expense of usability. I do miss the ease of use of just doing PIP C:=A:*.* . I'm not specially attached to PIP though, I don't like how from and to are swapped, and I don't understand why it's not simply called COPY or CP. (And it should understand relative paths, and the wildcard character should take both the name and the extension, and etc.)
HELP.COM itself is 7k, but HELP.HLP is 75k. Yeah, I don't think it will ever fit anywhere.
Oh well PIP can send files to the CRT or get a file from the keyboard, therefore they called it Pheripherial Interchange Program, which makes somehow sense. It is 9 KB long, so it will fit on a ROM, have to do that a bit later, since I'm busy at work.
About target and destination swapping, well, PIP is from 1982, so I guess it was first there. ;)
NSWEEP offers mass options. Tag All, then Copy All. :)
That would be sweet. I hope you can find some space on your existing ROMs, or we will have to find stuff to fill the new one with.
Quite unrelated, but have you looked into modifying the original two CP/M PLUS ROMs? If I recall correctly they can only check for Accessory ROMs in locations 1 to 15, which can be problematic once you start accumulating them and others.
Also, but I'm not sure you can helpe here, I tried to use TIMEROM+ in WinAPE. Is there a reason why you need both a TIMEROM+ ROM and a TIMEROM+ utility? Also DATE can only be used after TIMEROM+ has been started. It would be nice to have both utilities merged together.
i'm not quite sure what you mean. TIMEROM+ needs to be called only once, it reads the RTC date and time into the CP/M software clock. I don't think that WinApe emulates it. It's for real hardware.
DATE can be used anytime (also to set time and date), it's the new update with the Millenium patch in it. :)
Extending ROMs 0-15 to 0-64 is on my 2DO list, if somebody is more quick - nice! :)
EDIT: Ok, found no 9 KB in one of the other ROMs. Now here is the new archive.... PIP is in ROM 8.
TIMEROM+ works in WinAPE. You need to put the ROM in it, and tell WinAPE where the ROM is in Settings/other/other devices.
And yes, it only needs to be called once, but that's still something to do first. If it's not permanently loaded in RAM, maybe it would be interesting to integrate it into the startup sequence of CP/M? Or if it is, then alter DATE so that it calls it before it first starts.
Quote from: khaz on 19:56, 03 February 16
TIMEROM+ works in WinAPE. You need to put the ROM in it, and tell WinAPE where the ROM is in Settings/other/other devices.
And yes, it only needs to be called once, but that's still something to do first. If it's not permanently loaded in RAM, maybe it would be interesting to integrate it into the startup sequence of CP/M? Or if it is, then alter DATE so that it calls it before it first starts.
Oh, so I have to take a closer look at the WinApe Update then :-)
If you have a PROFILE.SUB then just add TIMEROM at the beginning. Like I remember it only reads the RTC and then sets the software clock of CP/M. After that there should be nothing in RAM left (or do I miss the point?).
Quote from: khaz on 17:34, 03 February 16
I do miss the ease of use of just doing PIP C:=A:*.* . I'm not specially attached to PIP though, I don't like how from and to are swapped, and I don't understand why it's not simply called COPY or CP. (And it should understand relative paths, and the wildcard character should take both the name and the extension, and etc.)
That's sounds very Unixy to me. :laugh:
CP/M has its roots. ;)
Added POWER 3 in ROM 9. See my hp! Enjoy!!! :)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:43, 11 June 15
OK how about one of the CPM gui's? But I guess they are too big too. Is there a CPM tool akin to Norton commander?
One tool like Norton Commander in rom will be great ...... :)
Name it and if possible I will put it into a ROM. But file-size limitation is 15 KB (you can compress it though!). And if it needs to load other parts and specifically targets disc, then there could be problems. Well, just post a DSK with your candidate program here and I see what I can do.
Do you know ZFILER.COM for the Z-system under CP/M? Take a look, maybe it's "Norton" enough. ;)
ZFILER.COM ??
I will try and comment later.
Thanks @TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179) :)
Quote from: khaz on 17:34, 03 February 16
I'm not specially attached to PIP though, I don't like how from and to are swapped, and I don't understand why it's not simply called COPY or CP. (And it should understand relative paths, and the wildcard character should take both the name and the extension, and etc.)
It's a very standard way to do like this: In nearly all assembly language it's destination, source. (Z80, "intel syntax" x86, ARM, AVR...)
And very close to variable assignement in a lot a language (foo = 42 in C... bar := 84 in Pascal...)
The only one I know to use the other way is COBOL (MOVE foo TO bar)...
In R you can use the two way (foo -> bar, bar <- foo)
(Well, maybe FORTH but everything is backward :) (RPN is fun :P )
Quote from: FloppySoftware on 21:33, 03 February 16
That's sounds very Unixy to me. :laugh:
CP/M has its roots. ;)
Well, on contrary, for exemple the standard assembly notation on unix system are MOV src, dest... (AT&T syntax), (same order as PDP standard assembly language notation...)
Quote from: CloudStrife on 20:21, 04 March 16It's a very standard way to do like this: In nearly all assembly language it's destination, source.
Oh, I know nothing about that, it probably has very good reasons to be so in an assembly language. I was just commenting jokingly how for a DOS command line / terminal tool meant for the end user, it doesn't make much sense. Microsoft COPY is source,dest, so is Linux CP.
Quote from: CloudStrife on 20:21, 04 March 16
Well, on contrary, for exemple the standard assembly notation on unix system are MOV src, dest... (AT&T syntax), (same order as PDP standard assembly language notation...)
I was not talking about the order of source and destination arguments, but about the other missed features (cp name, relative paths, enhanced wildcards):
QuoteI do miss the ease of use of just doing PIP C:=A:*.* . I'm not specially attached to PIP though, I don't like how from and to are swapped, and I don't understand why it's not simply called COPY or CP. (And it should understand relative paths, and the wildcard character should take both the name and the extension, and etc.)
If I mentioned that CP/M has its roots, it was precisely due to the PIP name: Peripheral Interchange Program; CP/M has nothing in common with Unix.