Author Topic: Perfect Pix  (Read 10265 times)

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Offline TFM

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #25 on: 23:23, 19 July 16 »

How many games are really using 128k nowadays on CPC?


More every day.  ;D
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Offline Rhino

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #26 on: 13:00, 25 July 16 »
Updated to v1.02 with a converter bug fixed exporting overscan screens and more upper memory free for greater ROMs compatibility.

Offline HAL 6128

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #27 on: 20:26, 25 July 16 »
Hi Rhino,

I'm working with a CPC6128 and a GBS 8200 CGA to VGA converter. I've added a Multiplay and X-Mass where I put all the Paint-Disk files onto (ppp.bas/ppp.bin and *.cfg files). It works astonishing "ok" with the converter despite the hardware effects: The R-Mode doesn't work well - the screen is shifted. The B0-Mode works very well and in a proper way (wow, so many colours!! - f******g cool pics!!!) The B1 works also without any screen shift, but not all colours are present (only the "DI" image, not the "BF" > it's disturbed).

The Multiplay (Mouse) support doesn't work. I've connected a Trackball, no AMX mouse. If I do some inp command from Basic then I receive changes. But I'm not sure if the trackball provide the right results. The inp(&f990) results in different numbers or bits (like a joystick), the inp(&f992) or inp(&f993) only provide 0 or 255??

X-Mass is also doing a very well job in loading the application or saving / loading files.

HAL6128
« Last Edit: 20:44, 25 July 16 by HAL 6128 »
...proudly supported Pentomino and NQ-Music-Disc with GFX

Offline Rhino

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #28 on: 21:50, 25 July 16 »
Hi Rhino,

I'm working with a CPC6128 and a GBS 8200 CGA to VGA converter. I've added a Multiplay and X-Mass where I put all the Paint-Disk files onto (ppp.bas/ppp.bin and *.cfg files). It works astonishing "ok" with the converter despite the hardware effects: The R-Mode doesn't work well - the screen is shifted. The B0-Mode works very well and in a proper way (wow, so many colours!! - f******g cool pics!!!) The B1 works also without any screen shift, but not all colours are present (only the "DI" image, not the "BF" > it's disturbed).

The Multiplay (Mouse) support doesn't work. I've connected a Trackball, no AMX mouse. If I do some inp command from Basic then I receive changes. But I'm not sure if the trackball provide the right results. The inp(&f990) results in different numbers or bits (like a joystick), the inp(&f992) or inp(&f993) only provide 0 or 255??

X-Mass is also doing a very well job in loading the application or saving / loading files.

HAL6128

Thanks for the feedback!

Only DI example is in mode B1, the BF example is in mode R, so I think it's normal in your configuration.
Preferably I recommend the B0 / B1 modes, as they are more compatible and flexible, by requiring very little CPU.

Multiplay is only supported in tool for mouse. Do you have an Amiga mouse to connect with Multiplay?
Remember to select the AMI mode of the Multiplay port if you are using an Amiga trackball. But anyway, I'm not sure if the trackball will work as a mouse. If you are using a CPC trackball, use the CPC joy port and configure it as AMX in tool.

Regards!

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #29 on: 12:52, 26 July 16 »
I forgot to add the final version!  :D We basically removed the excess of green pixels. The rest was basically fine  :) I looks awesome in the CRT.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

Offline Rhino

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #30 on: 18:25, 26 July 16 »
I forgot to add the final version!  :D We basically removed the excess of green pixels. The rest was basically fine  :) I looks awesome in the CRT.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

I love that image! Have you thought to include it in the game?

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #31 on: 19:13, 26 July 16 »
It will not appear in the game, I am afraid, but we made a wallpaper out of it :) I will send it to you tonight!  :D

Offline Rhino

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #32 on: 13:52, 30 July 16 »
Updated to v1.03 with the following changes:
 
 * Improved controls in Paint tool by adding CONTROL + keys to move the pointer to scroll the zoom window (similar to OCP Art Studio).
 
 * Added warning message in the converter when source image exceeds the image size limits managed with the Paint tool.
 
 * Additional upper memory free for greater ROMs compatibility.

Offline madram

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #33 on: 09:43, 07 August 16 »
Nice work, great tool! (or maybe it's the other way around).
This is really exciting to have new native tool, futhermore pushing CPC's limit. Also, the simple fact to be able to choose screen dimensions is neat.

I'm wondering, what's the behavior of mode R on non-CTM screen (TVs, projector...) ?
Also, it seems we cannot import standard CPC files (src, win, ...). Am I missing something ?




Offline Rhino

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #34 on: 13:58, 07 August 16 »
Nice work, great tool! (or maybe it's the other way around).
This is really exciting to have new native tool, futhermore pushing CPC's limit. Also, the simple fact to be able to choose screen dimensions is neat.

I'm wondering, what's the behavior of mode R on non-CTM screen (TVs, projector...) ?
Also, it seems we cannot import standard CPC files (src, win, ...). Am I missing something ?

Thanks for the feedback!

Currently the paint tool is very limited and only supports pph images. So if you want to load a standard CPC screen, first, you must convert it to PC (png, gif, etc ...) and then use the converter to get a pph.

If there is demand, in the future I would like to make an extended version with more features, this extended version would require a memory expansion because the current version is on the limit of the 128kb. We may use this thread to require features.

About Mode R, I tested on a LCD TV and it seems that switching frames is not working, a static distorted image appears.

Regards!
« Last Edit: 23:34, 07 August 16 by Rhino »

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #35 on: 14:00, 07 August 16 »
I have tested mb0 in LCDs and emus and it actually works  :) Of course, you see quite a lot of flickering when comparing it with a real CRT, but it definitely works!


Offline PulkoMandy

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #36 on: 10:23, 08 August 16 »
If you use a standard LCD TV, it will usually try to deinterlace the picture, which is not what is expected here. You can fix this using a proper scandoubler to convert the signal to 50Hz VGA, which most display will then render without deinterlacing artifacts.

Offline litwr

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #37 on: 09:53, 13 January 17 »
It is unbelievable!  :o  I used ep128emu it is interesting to compare with the real iron.  Mode R looks a bit wrong with ep128emu.  IMHO These pictures should be published at youtube.
I have to point the one disadvantage for me.  The tools are closed sources, without Linux port.
« Last Edit: 10:03, 13 January 17 by litwr »

Offline ivarf

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #38 on: 11:48, 17 January 17 »
It is unbelievable!  :o  I used ep128emu it is interesting to compare with the real iron.  Mode R looks a bit wrong with ep128emu.  IMHO These pictures should be published at youtube.
I have to point the one disadvantage for me.  The tools are closed sources, without Linux port.
Better than what currently can be done on the Commodore plus/4? ;)

Offline andycadley

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #39 on: 15:28, 17 January 17 »

On my CM14, at least, I find the headache inducing flicker unbearable. I may be particularly susceptible, but I'm going to remain in the "not a fan" group of these kinds of images regardless of which platform it is.

Offline ivarf

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #40 on: 18:28, 17 January 17 »
On my CM14, at least, I find the headache inducing flicker unbearable. I may be particularly susceptible, but I'm going to remain in the "not a fan" group of these kinds of images regardless of which platform it is.

Do find this to be a problem for all the new modes?

Offline litwr

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #41 on: 20:18, 17 January 17 »
Better than what currently can be done on the Commodore plus/4? ;)
No. I have also add that Amiga 500 pictures are better so as IBM PC MCGA/VGA/SVGA pictures...
I can't call B0/B1 as the new modes.  Mode R looks a bit unusual. However I have doubts about its stability.
« Last Edit: 20:21, 17 January 17 by litwr »

Offline andycadley

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #42 on: 20:30, 17 January 17 »


Do find this to be a problem for all the new modes?
Yup. I'm sure if you carefully select the palette and pixels to minimize the colour difference between frames you could reduce the problem (although probably only by making the effect  so minimal as to be pointless), but in most cases it's glaringly obvious. The SFII picture, for example, looks like some hideous disco strobing effect and all I can really see are the constantly blinking pixels.


Again, this may be partially a difference in the persistence between older CTMs and the CM14, or it may be down to my shoddy eyesight. I've certainly seen similar "effects" on other computers and never been able to get past how bad the flicker looks.


EDIT: Thinking about it, Imperial Mahjong did something similar and that didn't look nearly as bad, although whether that is down to careful graphics or something else is another matter.
« Last Edit: 20:34, 17 January 17 by andycadley »

Offline ivarf

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #43 on: 20:32, 17 January 17 »
No. I have also add that Amiga 500 pictures are better so as IBM PC MCGA/VGA/SVGA pictures...
I can't call B0/B1 as the new modes.  Mode R looks a bit unusual. However I have doubts about its stability.

I didn't understand what you mean here. A500 and IBM is better? That wasn't a surprise was it? You won't call B0/B1 new modes? Why?

Did I understand you correctly?

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #44 on: 20:34, 17 January 17 »
I guess that persistence is different in different monitors and that makes a difference  :-X For example, in my CM14 the pictures look completely fine (almost). However, in an emu, the flickering is very obvious. Then, of course, every person is a different world and our reaction against these type of effects can really change among individuals...

Offline ivarf

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #45 on: 20:35, 17 January 17 »
I've certainly seen similar "effects" on other computers and never been able to get past how bad the flicker looks.
I have only seen interlace used on the Amiga 500. That was back in the 80s. Flickertime big time

Offline andycadley

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #46 on: 20:55, 17 January 17 »

I have only seen interlace used on the Amiga 500. That was back in the 80s. Flickertime big time
Yeah, that was always horrific.


But the alternating between two screens thing I've seen done on the Speccy and C64, at least, usually with the justification "Look, it gives you loads of extra colours!" - to which I tend to think "No, it gives you a headache and possibly epilepsy". YMMV.  :laugh:

Offline PulkoMandy

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #47 on: 10:30, 18 January 17 »
EDIT: Thinking about it, Imperial Mahjong did something similar and that didn't look nearly as bad, although whether that is down to careful graphics or something else is another matter.


No, Imperial Mahjong does not use any flickering. That would not be appropriate for a game where you watch a fixed screen for a long time.

Offline Rhino

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #48 on: 14:55, 18 January 17 »
Yup. I'm sure if you carefully select the palette and pixels to minimize the colour difference between frames you could reduce the problem (although probably only by making the effect  so minimal as to be pointless), but in most cases it's glaringly obvious. The SFII picture, for example, looks like some hideous disco strobing effect and all I can really see are the constantly blinking pixels.


Again, this may be partially a difference in the persistence between older CTMs and the CM14, or it may be down to my shoddy eyesight. I've certainly seen similar "effects" on other computers and never been able to get past how bad the flicker looks.


EDIT: Thinking about it, Imperial Mahjong did something similar and that didn't look nearly as bad, although whether that is down to careful graphics or something else is another matter.

The SFII example is a direct conversion. Do you notice less flikering in the Pinball Dreams intro screens? These were retouched to reduce flikering.
Often, a high flickering is because the brightness of the monitor is very high. Do you notice less flikering by reducing the brightness?

Offline andycadley

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Re: Perfect Pix
« Reply #49 on: 23:02, 18 January 17 »

The SFII example is a direct conversion. Do you notice less flikering in the Pinball Dreams intro screens? These were retouched to reduce flikering.
Often, a high flickering is because the brightness of the monitor is very high. Do you notice less flikering by reducing the brightness?
If I crank the brightness right down to minimum, the flickering is gone. If I then raise it to the point where the standard blue backdrop is distinguishable from black, there is notable flicker. If I raise it further to the point where the orange of the Beatbox table is notably different from the red, then the flicker is very obvious.


It's better on the Mode 1 "Digital Illusions" splash screen, although that may be because there is just less change on the screen overall.