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General Category => Demos => Topic started by: villain on 21:30, 20 March 11

Title: Batman Forever
Post by: villain on 21:30, 20 March 11
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56761


Incredible!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 21:49, 20 March 11
It's actually the BEST CPC demo I've ever seen!
Hard to beat it!

If someone is interested: I upped it to CPCInAJar to watch it online:
Watch online (http://retropower.eu/CPCInAJar/index.php?dsk=bf.zip&crtc=1&boot=DISC&large=true)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: demoniak on 22:00, 20 March 11
It's actually the BEST CPC demo I've ever seen!
Hard to beat it!

Totally agreed !
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: PhilZeVibe on 22:07, 20 March 11
How the hell is that even possible at all??? :o

Truely a jaw-dropping masterpiece! And I mean it!
That's pure mind-blowing experience.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 22:45, 20 March 11
Also glad to see that it works in almost every CPC emulator!
This means: The demo is very technical but runs even on simplier emulators and that makes all much more cool :D
It does not have too complicated CRTC technics, or rasters.
It's pure software I think!

Cool, cool, coooooooooool :D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: cpc4eva on 23:25, 20 March 11
people are going to talk about this demo for a long time to come.......


the first demo by the group holy crap how can they better it ?


wowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowo


the comments from users on pouet say alot too


the GFX are sen bloody sational


music and FX are truly amazing sounds better than the SID chip


703 colours
3960 dot tunnel
tron tribute nice effect
plasma stunning


please don't bother me im watching it again -


peace


cpc4eva !!!!


the short dig at c64's was classic :)






 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 23:37, 20 March 11
Massive and focused work.. congrats to everyone involved in this production !!
I never thought what I saw was possible that way..


I was watching for a second time (third time?) this demo with my daughter - 2 years and a half now - and she was scared by Batman sitting on his chair... I think this sum up well the ambiance we get about it. Last time I saw such a quality for an intro was in Orion Prime game..

BTW - the most important to retain about this prod (reading comments from Pouet.net http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56761) everybody tells how good the demo is, but nobody I think really understood the technical side of it.... will take months (years ?) I guess to understand.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: einoeL on 00:20, 21 March 11
WOW!  :o :o :o
Ich muss das jetzt auf Deutsch schreiben:
So ein Hammerdemo habe ich noch nie gesehen, der Amiga kann einpacken, und der C64 mit seinem SID erst recht!
Devilmarkus, du darfst den Text übersetzen, wenn sich jemand beschwert.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Octoate on 00:25, 21 March 11
This demo is really amazing and raised the bar for demos on the CPC. I guess I have a new favourite demo :). Contains everything what I expect from a good demo. Really, really, really great!!! I am still shocked by it ;).
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Ygdrazil on 00:49, 21 March 11
This is awsome!!!! I am stunned...

Simply incredible... Need to think about this!

/Ygdrazil


http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56761 (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56761)


Incredible!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ervin on 03:24, 21 March 11
Good lord! That is simply unbelievable!
The texture twisting sequence is mindblowing!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 09:20, 21 March 11
Wow... I woke up to a beautiful piece of work... when the end titles came and I saw the "Amstrad Begins" logo I literally started clapping all by myself!!!!

Amazing demo, congrats guys...

PS I also noticed how the program constantly read data off the disk - and then I saw Arnoldemu's name in the creds :)
PS2 we also got a mention :)
PS3 PLEASE KEEP IT IN ENGLISH
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 09:26, 21 March 11
I'm still in shock!
Batman Group  respect and awe for your work!!!
Batman forever makes everything else(demo) looks very childish
I'm still in shock!!!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 09:33, 21 March 11
Guys, who can make a video to place on our homepage? :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: AMSDOS on 09:49, 21 March 11
I really liked that Plasma effect at the end along with that Green Screen with the Contrast of Greens.  ;D  The Disk Loading routine looks interesting too cause it feels like this demo is multitasking!  ;D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 10:12, 21 March 11
Still in shock!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSbKv7wCKlU
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 10:39, 21 March 11
Quote
It does not have too complicated CRTC technics, or rasters.
It's pure software I think!
Well, it is using hardware techniques I think. If you enable turbo mode on Winape32 you see things falling apart in most parts.
Well, the zoomers have to be hardware tricks. Fast software rendering for X-stretch and CRTC for Y-stretch. What I like is that it has most of the effects I wanted to do by combining my fast X-stretch (from X-kore) but I never managed because I didn't learned to use the CRTC. The Zoom scroll. The fullscreen zoom and distort. The plasma. I know other people who were preparing the same effects or we were discussing them omg :)

The dots (tunnel and sine) are pure software rendered. But too much!!! I was surprised by the textured twister. I thought it was software but it fucks up in a very strange way that I can't explain when you enable turbo mode in Winape32. It's like the texture stretches but the shape and animation of the twister remains. You don't see un-stretched CRTC lines but this thing. Now, this is gonna puzzle me for the days :)
Well, what I can say about the demo? I think the presentation and a lot of the effects have even reached Amiga standards. I don't remember seeing so many dots on C64. The vector city is more high res than the C64 versions and with much more building (I guess it's an animation though?). The batman logo animation, so big, so smooth. Like Amiga animations. The twister texture, wow! The great graphics use and good colours of CPC and smoothness of the effect and size, AMIGA!!! I think this is a milestone for every 8bit there. I am so happy this was realized on Amstrad.
I am scared now. The level have been raised too high. The good thing? This makes me motivated to start learning the CRTC. I've got. I might improve a lot of ugly things on our ASB2 project now and maybe I will go fully overscan. So many years and I still haven't learned the CRTC.

Oh, I also love the pun. Sooo clever. CPC scene, what have you been doing? :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 11:08, 21 March 11
Still in shock!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSbKv7wCKlU

Ooh! Nice! Pity it's in 360p...

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Ygdrazil on 11:19, 21 March 11
Still amazed! :-\

Really hope that the group will release the source, so all can observe and learn!

/Ygdrazil

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:28, 21 March 11
Wow... I woke up to a beautiful piece of work... when the end titles came and I saw the "Amstrad Begins" logo I literally started clapping all by myself!!!!

Amazing demo, congrats guys...

PS I also noticed how the program constantly read data off the disk - and then I saw Arnoldemu's name in the creds :)
PS2 we also got a mention :)
PS3 PLEASE KEEP IT IN ENGLISH

Yep, I had a small part in it.

Rhino used my memory detection code and disc routines/musical loader code.

I also helped with answering a few questions in the beginning.

I am proud to be a part of it and everyone has done an amazing job.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:47, 21 March 11
Important... watch on a real CPC.
Some things do not work correctly on emulators:

- musical loader
- the hi-res screen near the end.
- some of the sounds are not accurate on emulators.
- the lots of colours fullscreen
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: AMSDOS on 11:55, 21 March 11
Important... watch on a real CPC.
Some things do not work correctly on emulators:

- the hi-res screen near the end.
- the lots of colours fullscreen

I thought Winape handled those effects just fine, though it's always going to be difficult to compete with the real deal!  ;D  Not sure how it handled the Music though, what I heard from it seemed fine, cannot be absolutely certain though!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 12:03, 21 March 11
Still amazed! :-\

Really hope that the group will release the source, so all can observe and learn!

/Ygdrazil
I will release all my sources (memory tester, musical loader).
It is up to Rhino to decide if he wants to release his sources.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 12:05, 21 March 11

I thought Winape handled those effects just fine, though it's always going to be difficult to compete with the real deal!  ;D  Not sure how it handled the Music though, what I heard from it seemed fine, cannot be absolutely certain though!

for the lots of colours, it's a nice blend effect using mode 2 and a constant pattern.
The monitor anti-aliases it so you actually see more colours.

the hi-res screen which shows batman and joker. on most emus it will flicker.
on a real monitor it actually shows up higher res and with much less flicker because of the persistence.
it looks much better.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 12:28, 21 March 11
Yes the screen is cool.
It looks nice with a deinterlace filter!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 13:02, 21 March 11
The youtube video has serious music delays during the transitions. The sound is also desynchronized later. I am uploading a more proper video.


Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWAzDSRQGW0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWAzDSRQGW0)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 13:04, 21 March 11
I am really curious about the fact, that nobody managed to connect his real CPC to a TV card on his PC.
Is noone able to do that? To record PROPER CPC videos?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 14:32, 21 March 11
A very impressive demo! Pretty good art and music design.
 
@Devilmarkus
...good idea - at weekend I'm going to connect either my cpc to a tv (and record it) or connect it to my pc tv card.  I've an very old tv card (pci) from haupage. It has a composite / s-video interface?? Let' see.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 14:56, 21 March 11
A very impressive demo! Pretty good art and music design.
 
@Devilmarkus
...good idea - at weekend I'm going to connect either my cpc to a tv (and record it) or connect it to my pc tv card.  I've an very old tv card (pci) from haupage. It has a composite / s-video interface?? Let' see.
it is a good idea to experiment and work out a good way to capture accurately from a real cpc.
If possible I think you need to use a capture card with r,g,b inputs.

As for the sound, well the standard cpc has various options, stereo (from 3.5mm plug), speaker sound, SOUND on expansion port (may be the same as speaker sound).

You will get different results depending on which sound source you choose.

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 15:04, 21 March 11
I connected my mp2 now to my pc.
The image is not the best but it's ok!

Sadly I don't have a 3,5" drive, but, if someone wants, I'll record the 3" version for youtube ;)

(Need to connect audio now but thats childplay)

BTW.: For the experimental feeling:
New CPC palette!
(Measured from CPC image on my TV card, BASIC values 0-26!)
0x000706
0x020850
0x0A10D8
0x510F08
0x570F59
0x6011E8
0xE81F13
0xEF186F
0xF818F8
0x086F08
0x087067
0x0F7EF8
0x677807
0x677867
0x6F7FF8
0xF88F07
0xF8896F
0xF889F8
0x11F80E
0x0FF878
0x28F8F8
0x80F80C
0x78F870
0x79F8F8
0xF8F821
0xF8F865
0xF7F8F8
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: einoeL on 15:25, 21 March 11
As soon as I saw the "Amstrad-Logo" I felt something like patriotism.  :'(
Wonderful, this demo is really state of the art.
One point of criticism: The music slows down sometimes - why is that?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 15:47, 21 March 11
One point of criticism: The music slows down sometimes - why is that?

Because you are using an emulator.
I just recorded the whole demo with my 6128.
Will merge real CPC audio to it now (My TV card was not able to record from line in and the mp2 has no audio signal)

Then I'll upload it to youtube.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 15:53, 21 March 11
Yeah, there is a need for HD video about this demo. The one on Youtube has sync problem (not 50Hz). This demo really deserve the best. :)


Arnoldemu: any luck one day you will release the disc routines ? (with Rhino's agreement)
I found out the double-side feature quite interesting, works perfectly with HxC Floppy Emulator!


Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 16:28, 21 March 11
Well, sad that I don't have a real RGB cable to connect my CPC to my TV card,
so I can also not offer a real HD video, you can see here, how the MODE 2 screen looks from my capture:
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 16:42, 21 March 11
What you don't see in emulators is the tricky routine for the flip-screen.
It really looks awesome on a real CPC!
Thanks to line shifting!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 17:04, 21 March 11
it is a good idea to experiment and work out a good way to capture accurately from a real cpc.
If possible I think you need to use a capture card with r,g,b inputs.

As for the sound, well the standard cpc has various options, stereo (from 3.5mm plug), speaker sound, SOUND on expansion port (may be the same as speaker sound).

You will get different results depending on which sound source you choose.

I'm thinking about connecting my cpc to my 25 years old rear projection tv (46 inch / 4:3) with a scart cable. Video and sound should work. Looking for a good camcorder.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ssg on 17:23, 21 March 11
Quote
Hi, I'm Rhino from Batman Group, an old Amiga demo group known for "Batman Vuelve". I return to the scene after 15 years to make the best 8 bits demo on Amstrad CPC. The project is well advanced, but I need 2 musics to finish it. Are you interested? If yes, please, contact me at rhinobg @t hotmail d.t com and I'll give you more details about the project. Thanks.

He wasn't kidding alright. Now the bar is too high, I'm gonna give up coding on CPC altogether!!!1

[Edit]Removed direct email link for his protection... - Gryzor
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 18:20, 21 March 11
Yeah, it was like "hi, I'm new here coming from nowhere and I'm going to kick your ass" .. and that's exactly what happened.  :D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 18:50, 21 March 11
Saw it on my Real good old 6128...


Holy shiet !!!!


Awesome !

It jammed my CPC twice...
Good old Arnold mate never worked that much...

I think my poorly installed 3"1/2 disk drive can't perform as well as needed by the Demo...


Pst Edit : ok I used another DiskDrive (I have many...) and this one performs betterly...

But It still jamm My CPC.

This may be an issue due to the fact the Demo is 10minutes longs...

The slightest Hardware failure (Be it Power supply or DiskDrive) is Fatal error.

I mean to run the Demo And get it loading at the same time...
My old First CPC don't make it well...


Faulty Kustom diskDrive...
My brother did an Orkish job with the cables, and the diskdrives use the Monitor's powersupply... monitor who was also repaired cannibalising another one...erf...



Anyway, this is quite bluffing to see it on real Hardware...

Managed to see 8minutes perhaps... last jam on the rotating 3D blue Bat symbol... awesome though...)


Last Edit : ok managed to get it runing completely...
My CPC wasn't warm enough perhaps... :P


This looks almost AtariST quality...
What a rush, what a surprise...


My good old 6128 I'm proud of you...


Also, thx to the team who produced this piece of jewelry... :o

Full Fullscreen Demo... lots of effects and so on.... Complete masterpiece.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 21:02, 21 March 11
Wow....

Just watched it on a real 6128 Plus and half way through, I started worrying that my z80 might need a heatsink to survive this one :D Seriously impressive.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 21:14, 21 March 11
have someone compaired between it running on PLUS and CPC ?

I should try...



Also... the CPCinAJar emulation is good...
This enabled me to undertand betterly which and  when mode are used ...

Exemple : the Mode2 "textscreen"... I just couldn't read the text on my real CPC...
Nice C64 bashing though... strange as it come from Ex-Amiga sceners...

On my blurrish CPC Monitor with a lot of "Remanence"... You may believe every modes display fare more than availlable...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 21:20, 21 March 11
Here it is... Captured from my real CPC 6128 via MP2 and TV-card.
I had to dub the audio, so perhaps it's not 100% synchronous to the video stream.
Please have mercy ;)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRiz4thEwuc[/youtube]
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 01:32, 22 March 11
Thank you all for the good reception :)
About the demo video, this have a good frame rate but the music is out of sync after the introduction. :/
I tried to do the "official video" today but my two scart cables are not very good or I'm not doing something well... :) but I get a white/black signal when I connect the cpc to a DVD Recorder.
Does anyone know what is the best way to record the cpc on video? If someone has the hardware to do it well, I also would appreciate if can do it (I have not got the right hardware to do it quickly and some low quality and desync videos are being distributed on youtube now)
I'm afraid the c64 scene are watching it on defective videos and they will continue thinking that their c64 is better than CPC, hehe :)
 
Rhino.
 
PS: I think the last video with music will syncronized should be good.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: sigh on 01:46, 22 March 11
I like the smooth scaling and zooming in and out. I'd love to see these effects in games.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 01:52, 22 March 11
Here it is... Captured from my real CPC 6128 via MP2 and TV-card.
I had to dub the audio, so perhaps it's not 100% synchronous to the video stream.
Please have mercy ;)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRiz4thEwuc[/youtube]

Hi, I think the desync problem was because you are running the single sided version, then you have a little pause to change the disk that is not in the inserted music. Anyway, thank you very much for the video. I understand that I can not ask for more effort on your part :) , but I would appreciate very much if you can send to me the material to make the sound insertion properly by myself.

Thanks in advance.
 
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 04:47, 22 March 11
I noticed on my "real" hardware that some transition may be a bit laggy and I even got the music and sounds going wild (noise) instead of playing well...

Sometimes It even (a lot of time) jamed my CPC...
I suspect the faulty DiskDrive/powersupply/and so on...

I had to reset a lot.

The continuous loading must be quite thightly timed I suppose...
Have anyone got such problems ?

The fact that the CPC struggle for 11minutes...
My CPC per exemple, most of his youth was spent playing lone-loading 64 games... the additionnal RAM never was used that much as during the try I gave to your demo... in almost 25years... :-[


As I told, you must perhaps :

=Be sure about your power supply both for the DiskDrive and the CPC...

=Be sure your Disk is well done.

=don't even breath nor blink.... Don't even...blink.... nor think.

=also the component have to be a bit warmed...

And try to have a better connectic than me with my Orkish Kustom DiskaDrivaSlugga...

You have B&W picture ?
What is the "nationality" of your DVD recorder ?

B&W often mean :
=Scart/peritel not properly plugged.
=PAL ? SECAM ? S-Video or RGB ???
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 10:47, 22 March 11
Hi Rhino,
          to solve the B&W problem, try the following connection: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/TV_SCART_cable#Alternative_RGB_Wiring and include the capacitor shown. The B&W is happening because your Video recorder is reading the composite input instead of the RGB.

@MacDeath, Long unused RAM, should work just as good as well used RAM. And if you are having problems with the CPC before it has warmed up, then you probably have dry joints on the mainboard.

I ran the demo on a real 6128 Plus from a HxC (with the single disk version), there was only one point in the demo where the music stuttered slightly, other than that it's as smooth as.... Something that's really smooth.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 11:03, 22 March 11

Hi,   I think the desync problem was because you are running the single sided   version, then you have a little pause to change the disk that is not in   the inserted music. Anyway, thank you very much for the video. I   understand that I can not ask for more effort on your part :) , but I would appreciate very much if you can send to me the material to make the sound insertion properly by myself.

Thanks in advance.

I captured both simulteanously. AudioEdit for capturing sound and my TV tool to capture video.

I'll see if I can upload both files. The video is 335mb!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:29, 22 March 11
I noticed on my "real" hardware that some transition may be a bit laggy and I even got the music and sounds going wild (noise) instead of playing well...

Sometimes It even (a lot of time) jamed my CPC...
I suspect the faulty DiskDrive/powersupply/and so on...

I had to reset a lot.

The continuous loading must be quite thightly timed I suppose...
Have anyone got such problems ?

The fact that the CPC struggle for 11minutes...
My CPC per exemple, most of his youth was spent playing lone-loading 64 games... the additionnal RAM never was used that much as during the try I gave to your demo... in almost 25years... :-[


As I told, you must perhaps :

=Be sure about your power supply both for the DiskDrive and the CPC...

=Be sure your Disk is well done.

=don't even breath nor blink.... Don't even...blink.... nor think.

=also the component have to be a bit warmed...

And try to have a better connectic than me with my Orkish Kustom DiskaDrivaSlugga...

You have B&W picture ?
What is the "nationality" of your DVD recorder ?

B&W often mean :
=Scart/peritel not properly plugged.
=PAL ? SECAM ? S-Video or RGB ???

Ok concerning the loading, I'll get some test code ready, would you run it on your system?
Perhaps the loader will need a patch?

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Ythcal on 12:47, 22 March 11
What the !?


A really great demo. Thank you for showing us what is possible on our little CPCs.
Absolutely amazing...


When watching the rotating Batmania I thought I was watching some kind of movie. Never thought such smooth animations would be possible full screen.

¡chapó!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 13:05, 22 March 11
@MacDeath:
I noticed during development that the loading parts are very sensible to the hardware status and it is possible to have some desync problem for some moments while loading depending on the status of your floppy and / or disks.
It is because when musical loader from arnoldemu get an error reading a sector, try it again, and then, the loading time is not the same for all cases. This is also true because the time reserved for loading parts in demo are very tight to the ideal condition in order to reduce the transition time.

@Bryce:
Thank you for the info, I have a scart cable like the diagram (but without the connection 16 - 18, and 3 capacitors included in 7, 11 and 15), and my second scart cable have not the 16-18 connection, and 17 is directly connected to 13, 9 and 5). What is my best option to add the capacitor of the diagram in your opinion?
 
@Devilmarkus:
Thanks again, If we can assemble properly the sound, I think your video could be the "official" if you agree, of course. About the sound file, don't worry, I can capture hi-quality demo sound without problems, only the video is needed. I wait the file from you. :)
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: redbox on 13:49, 22 March 11
I waited to see it on my real CPC...


And it is simply amazing.  The bar has been raised so, so far...!


Eat that C64 fanboys  :)

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 14:08, 22 March 11
@Rhino,
The three capacitors on 7,11,15 are a bit of an overkill (because these are already present inside the CPC), but they don't have any real negative effect so you could leave them there. Pin 16 is important though, you need between 1V and 3V on this pin to tell the video that you are using RGB and not FBAS (Composite), some other versions use a small battery to achieve this, but connecting it to the sync signal is enough to power this signal. Because the Sync is a pulsed signal, older SCART systems will be happy enough with this pulse, but newer LCD/Plasma TVs sample this pin and need a permanent signal , not a pulse (otherwise the picture may flicker and permanently display RGB in the corner of the picture), the capaictor looks after this by discharging between pulses. If you add the wire to 16 and the capacitor between 16 and 18 on you first SCART cable, you should get a sharp coloured picture.

By the way, when the Batman logo is rotating, it's really smooth when it's large, but stutters when it's small, I would have expected it to be the other way around, is there a technical reason for this?

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 14:36, 22 March 11
@Rhino,
The three capacitors on 7,11,15 are a bit of an overkill (because these are already present inside the CPC), but they don't have any real negative effect so you could leave them there. Pin 16 is important though, you need between 1V and 3V on this pin to tell the video that you are using RGB and not FBAS (Composite), some other versions use a small battery to achieve this, but connecting it to the sync signal is enough to power this signal. Because the Sync is a pulsed signal, older SCART systems will be happy enough with this pulse, but newer LCD/Plasma TVs sample this pin and need a permanent signal , not a pulse (otherwise the picture may flicker and permanently display RGB in the corner of the picture), the capaictor looks after this by discharging between pulses. If you add the wire to 16 and the capacitor between 16 and 18 on you first SCART cable, you should get a sharp coloured picture.

By the way, when the Batman logo is rotating, it's really smooth when it's large, but stutters when it's small, I would have expected it to be the other way around, is there a technical reason for this?

Bryce.

Thanks, I will try to do this evening at home.
About Batman logo, It is intentional, the idea is first to show a "standard" 8 bits vector and then a CPC vector to increase the feeling. I planned to put a overprinted sprite saying "C64" when the vector is small and slow, and a "CPC" when the vector is big and fast. But it might be too explicit. :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 14:48, 22 March 11
You bashed the C64 crowd enough in the Demo, any more sarcasm and they'll be outside your house with pitchforks and torches :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 15:34, 22 March 11
@Rhino
I have re encoded your demo using raw image coming from winape(I think devilmarkus rip  looks weird cause he used the MP2 which produces a rather poor image and not the RGB like you wanted to do with yours)
I have upload it on youtube
here's the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14OZa8qAjoQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14OZa8qAjoQ)


tell me if you are satisfied with what you see and hear
If yes
I'll upload/send you the avi which is 180MB


Bravo for your work mate!!!
All the CPC coders should be suffering from depression after seeing your work!!!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 16:45, 22 March 11
I am actually fiddling around the MP2 and a Composite modulation.
Sadly the image is much too dark:
(http://cpc-live.com/lv02.png)

Perhaps I can get a better quality...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 16:49, 22 March 11
I have seen that Rhino has submitted a high quality video on fix me beautifull on Pouet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJosZfm560Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJosZfm560Q)

I have added an anotatation in my own video that links to this video. I I think that would be ok.. (so many vids of this demo uploaded these days :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 17:44, 22 March 11
Concerning the rotating bat logo...
I though too it was intentionnal...

"oh a cute little 3D rotating slowly... normal but cute... er... WTF ? the larger fullscreen is smooth and fast as hell ???
OMG..."

Completely "great surprise achievement unlocked"...
Also liked the fact both sides are a different colour, but this is slight and nice.

You really choose the right Theme (Batman) as the CPC palette is full of great Blues... and you used them well.

the same on C64 would have been in grey all the way. ;D as ever...


=My unused RAM : I know, it was some sort of a joke...
=Warmed CPC : yep I must have some dry stuff and perhaps some dust... Was just to tell that my CPC needed smany trys to run the Demo entirelry...

Electronic is not that regular.
Especially with shitty connectic.
And my powersupply was certainly the faultypart...
My Brother connected the 3"1/2 to the +5V of the CPC... while originally it was supposed to have it's own 12V from the monitor (the 3") which is then unused.


If I use an external power supply for my disk drive (I have some spare PC power supply) so the Monitor don't get some micro power shortages...
This may ease... perhaps.

Anyway it managed to work properly at last.

Also get myself a betterly soldered cable for the DiskDrive...

Not a big deal, but I am quite occupied theses days.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 20:18, 22 March 11
Quote
I am quite occupied
I love frenchies. You too ? :)


I guess he meant busy.



Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 20:20, 22 March 11
I guess he meant busy.

Well, or occupied ;) (I will not guess, WHO occupied him  ??? )
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: khisanth on 20:52, 22 March 11
pretty blown away by this demo! love to see what these guys can do , maybe hear that music through a SID

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 22:45, 22 March 11
've seen that demo today on a real CPC and TV. Grafix are very, very smooth. No interrupts during loading (3,5" Disc). With the TV's "built in" anti-aliasing colors blending and picture flipping became so soft and also smooth. And with good speakers available the bass of the thunder in the beginning are very very realistic (even for AY cababilities), sound and stereo effects are cool. So... the YouTube videos (even the HD) are very poor.
I pretty recommend watching it on real CPC and TV. It's fun.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 23:46, 22 March 11
Yeah busy... had a dreadfull night so... my english is as bad as usual....
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 23:53, 22 March 11
@MacDeath, ignore them, the word occupied is perfectly correct in that situation, exactly as in french.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Xyphoe on 11:39, 23 March 11
I think this demo is absolutely amazing, and I've watched it several times now - which is testament to how good it is as demo's usually bore me  ;) ;D

A question for Rhino -

I was just wondering what your history is with the Amstrad CPC? I've seen some comments that you were doing Amiga demos and this is your first CPC demo? I'm wondering how you got so good so quick!  ??? :laugh:
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 12:34, 23 March 11
Quote
I was just wondering what your history is with the Amstrad CPC?


Looks like this is good timing. I just added an interview of Rhino on my website ! (thanks Rhino for your time answering my questions  :) )
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 13:45, 23 March 11
Yeah busy... had a dreadfull night so... my english is as bad as usual....

Hey no worries! I just was joking ;)

I also speak English as a second hand shop language :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 14:42, 23 March 11

Looks like this is good timing. I just added an interview of Rhino on my website ! (thanks Rhino for your time answering my questions  :) )

I've read the interview. Rino was talking about two different views or concepts of how to create a demo (x*y concept versus x*time concept)...
 
@Rino: Did I understand you right? When you creating motions so it is not a matter of an exactly calculated (e.g.) vectors/pixel per second but it's more a matter of how our eye is realizing a motion per second. (...the same principle as it is for an mp3-encoding??)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 15:41, 23 March 11
've seen that demo today on a real CPC and TV. Grafix are very, very smooth. No interrupts during loading (3,5" Disc). With the TV's "built in" anti-aliasing colors blending and picture flipping became so soft and also smooth. And with good speakers available the bass of the thunder in the beginning are very very realistic (even for AY cababilities), sound and stereo effects are cool. So... the YouTube videos (even the HD) are very poor.
I pretty recommend watching it on real CPC and TV. It's fun.
I'm with you, this demo on cpc and a TV it's gobsmacking
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 17:55, 23 March 11
Gonna try it on my CPC tonight... can't wait. Popcorn and everything :)

Now all we have to do is wait for the c64 scene's answer - it should be great if there's one! Or maybe a video with the gfx from the CPC and SID sound (@khisanth)? :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 21:05, 23 March 11
Here's my new video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbGQxtbWkXM[/youtube]

Have fun!

Edit: Technic used: Modified MP2 modulator (Thanks to Bryce for his advice to add Composite output!), TV Card, CPC 6128, PC with capturing software. Video and audio is real CPC 6128!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 02:29, 24 March 11
This Demo actually have at least 10 different videos on Youtube... :P
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: einoeL on 14:41, 24 March 11
...maybe hear that music through a SID

I don't think that the music would sound better through a SID.
Listen to it via a hifi-system, it sounds really strong and punchy.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 21:05, 24 March 11
I followed the advice to see it on an lcd
so i prepared the one disc version
took the cpc+ out of the closet
hooked it up on my 26 lcd and run"disc
EPIC!!!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 21:49, 24 March 11
out of the closet ?!  :-\
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 21:52, 24 March 11
I don't know how many times I've seen the demo, but the more I watch it,   the more i like it. I wonder what kind of games could  be done using   some of the demo's techniques?. Thanks to this demo it's been prooved that the CPC   was a sleeping beast and its unleashed at last.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 22:37, 24 March 11
Quote
I wonder what kind of games could  be done using   some of the demo's techniques?
With a CPC +, that would be possible : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuWiPmIDI-o&feature=player_detailpage#t=306s   (start the video at 5 minutes) : background would be like a demo-effect (made of horizontal lines) where sprites would be managed in hardware by Asic.

Batman & Robin is my second preferred game on the Genesis. Musics are made by Jesper Kyd.
My preferred game on the Genesis being of course Mega Turrican.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 00:59, 25 March 11
Coming back to topic...
 
Long demo... yes! Colorful demo... yes! Lot of good (PC made!?!) gfx... yes! Nice sounds... yes! Best demo... by far not.
 
In the late 80ies and early nineties I've already watched better demos (don't want to mention them here, because I don't want to forget one).
 
Yes, for people who are not even 10 years on the CPC this one looks like #1. But honestly I like Vanitys 'From Scratch' still more.
 
Most of the effects seem to use a similar technique like Filmemacher does, but not as advanced. So yes, 50 fps framerate and all that crap is no problem.
 
And what I really miss is any kind of hardware techniques :-X :-\
 
But still a very good production, with a lot of efforts. Good work & congrats!
 
p.s.: They got no idea about applications on CPC, hehehe  :P
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 04:17, 25 March 11
Quote
Listen to it via a hifi-system, it sounds really strong and punchy.
Amstrad's AY can really have great Basses...

Quote
I wonder what kind of games could  be done using   some of the demo's techniques?
Games is completely different use of Machine...
The best thing would be a game with lot's of cinematics...

But games =/= pre calculate...(well, may depends...)

Quote
My preferred game on the Genesis being of course Mega Turrican.
Earthworm Jim was great too IMO...

Quote
Best demo... by far not.
Perhaps Best 2000's demo is more accurate...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 12:26, 25 March 11
Quote
I've read the interview. Rino was talking about two different views or concepts of how to create a demo (x*y concept versus x*time concept)...


Yep, I wondered about the animation technique. Rhino's answer was a bit short on this and left us wonder. Personally, what I tried to understand from the mention of x*time concept is quite simpler. That you have this sequence of data as RLE: "pixels to fill - pixels to  skip - pixels to fill - pixels to skip" (skip 45 pixels (X) draw 100 pixels in sequecnce (time), skip 250 pixels (X) draw another bunch (time) where pixels could be bytes too of course), so you don't care about moving to next line on y, you see CPC vram as linear 1 dimension too. But maybe I am wrong. I am also wondering if fast filling with several PUSHs is used in this and also if there is delta packing, because the animation are still too fast for the size. I have to try displaying some big anims oneday.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 12:43, 25 March 11
Quote
In the late 80ies and early nineties I've already watched better demos (don't want to mention them here, because I don't want to forget one).
Yes, for people who are not even 10 years on the CPC this one looks like #1. But honestly I like Vanitys 'From Scratch' still more.

Well, I don't think I can compare 80-90s demos at all with this one. Especially not concerning the presentation. Maybe you like different effects and tehcniques than I do in CPC demos, because I enjoyed the effects in this demo much more than in any other CPC demo before. What I like in this demo as in From Scratch too is that they are complete. Great presentation, trackmo style, overscan screens always, use of hardware and combination with software rendering where applicable for new original effects, this is quality in many aspects. We were used to either have a pure software rendering demo (which I love seeing though) with ugly graphics, coder oriented or a pure hardware CPC screen that got boring after the years. In these two demos we see hardware effects used in the right way, software effects combined, but taking the time to have quality screens and good presentation at every moment. From Scratch is more hardware oriented, but Batman Forever still uses some hardware techniques combined with soft-rendering, how else the fast fullscreen zoomers would be possible? Anyway, opinions are opinions, even though I find quite strange when you think that your run of the mill 80s-90s CPC demos were better than this masterpiece. You don't even need to be 10 years older on the CPC scene to understand that.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: redbox on 13:54, 25 March 11
Long demo... yes! Colorful demo... yes! Lot of good (PC made!?!) gfx... yes! Nice sounds... yes! Best demo... by far not.

 ::)

In the late 80ies and early nineties I've already watched better demos (don't want to mention them here, because I don't want to forget one).

 ::)


Yes, for people who are not even 10 years on the CPC this one looks like #1. But honestly I like Vanitys 'From Scratch' still more.

 ::)

Most of the effects seem to use a similar technique like Filmemacher does, but not as advanced. So yes, 50 fps framerate and all that crap is no problem.

 ::)

And what I really miss is any kind of hardware techniques :-X :-\

 ::)

p.s.: They got no idea about applications on CPC, hehehe  :P

 ::)



'Nuff said.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 14:07, 25 March 11
Coming back to topic...
blablablablabla (shortened by Devilmarkus)

Cool! Next CPC demo will be released soon by TFM! I am happy and cannot wait to see it! ;)
But it must be a non-FutureOS demo! On a normal 128k CPC!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 14:17, 25 March 11
 
  Cool! Next CPC demo will be released soon by TFM! I am happy and cannot wait to see it!   
  But it must be a non-FutureOS demo! On a normal 128k CPC! 
 
 
   
  I second that!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 15:29, 25 March 11
Well I'm not an expert myself about demos and all the technical part of them, but hey, since I got my first CPC back in 1986 I think I've seen enough demos to know that this is the BEST one (and hopefully just for now) for our beloved Amstrad.

If there are demos as good as this one please people let me know because I would love to watch them too.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 16:59, 25 March 11

Yep, I wondered about the animation technique. Rhino's answer was a bit short on this and left us wonder. Personally, what I tried to understand from the mention of x*time concept is quite simpler. That you have this sequence of data as RLE: "pixels to fill - pixels to  skip - pixels to fill - pixels to skip" (skip 45 pixels (X) draw 100 pixels in sequecnce (time), skip 250 pixels (X) draw another bunch (time) where pixels could be bytes too of course), so you don't care about moving to next line on y, you see CPC vram as linear 1 dimension too. But maybe I am wrong. I am also wondering if fast filling with several PUSHs is used in this and also if there is delta packing, because the animation are still too fast for the size. I have to try displaying some big anims oneday.

Yes. Excactly! That's was what have in my mind but couldn't explain. It's like an mp3 encoding and I hope I'm right. E.g. you have a 8-channel (or instruments) sound / music. Your ear is not able to hear 8 different channels seperatly. It hears a combined overtone wave of all channels/instruments. And - what I sketchy know about mp3 encoding is - that the mp3 encoding calculates this overtone wave in digital form - ...it simulate what your ear want's to hear.
So transferring this to graphics or digits in the CPC-RAM is the same as above mentioned. That what you want to change become changed and the is rest still untouched. A good technique or searching process for graphical pattern (in combining with the monitor / clock synchronisation) could speed up even biggest presentations and decrease needed RAM??
Hey, that's just theoretical blabla. Rhino could answer that. Could be interessting.
 
How about TFM's routines of "Filmemacher". Full screen movies with up to 50 fps! It needs also very fast calculating routines or technique. The same as in the demo? Different ones? Who knows?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 19:18, 25 March 11
Well, I see that there is some technical debate here :)
 
First of all, I does not understand very well the debates about the software/hardware usage on demos. For example, I never hear this distinction on Amiga, and the Amiga hardware is very powerfull. Anyway, I think the best philosophy is always to use all the capabilities at your disposal to achieve your goal. But using hardware or software is not a value in itself in my opinion, and, in any case, It depends of each effect if hardware is or not need to get better performance.
 
I like thinking about demomaking like something similar to do magic. Logically, there is always a trick and doing tricks on programming is commonly used to gain free cpu cycles for all the programming kinds (demos, games, tools...). I think the merit is not to know how to do a trick, the merit is inventing it. I think I could explain here (step by step) like each effect works, but then, the magic is lost.
 
Anyway, I must say that dots, spotlights and hires texts are the only "software" effects, for the rest, CPC hardware is strongly involved. And about how 3d objects are filled, I was inspired on how the Amiga blitter fill vectors but using the CRTC instead. In this way, we can say that z80 only draw the object borders and CRTC do the rest.

Rhino.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 19:29, 25 March 11
Yeah, when you look at the animations, there is a lot of the image that remains the same frame to frame. The difference per frame is what gets drawn. Didn't the Amiga do this for its Anim format - I forget?


So packing with a format like:


Frame 1: Assume all colour 0.
Next Frame - a list of instructions as in:
 either Skip X pixels (how the routine runs quickly)
or Draw Y pixels in Colour C (simple method, mostly PUSHes and INCs with edge cases)

e.g., with drawing instructions encoded in bytes: MSB is 0 - skip (up to 128 pixels), MSB is 1, draw up to 32 pixels in one of four colours (or 16 pixels in 4 colours, 4 preset dithers). It might make sense to encode the colour change as a separate instruction, and maybe to have a render following byte directly as an instruction - it would require some experimentation.


This doesn't give as good a compression as the animation demo using delta-packing recently however. But for animations where the per-frame difference is low it's quick.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 19:52, 25 March 11
I really can't remember any early-day demos being better than this. And to be frank, it'd be unfair to compare them. Batman has so much more advanced aesthetics and polish than anything I remember seeing.

Maybe, TFM, you could give some examples? I'm really curious.

Now, who's for a demo gallery with YT vids on the wiki? :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 20:00, 25 March 11
Come on guys : Batman Forever IS, from a general point of view, the best demo ever done for the CPC.


Still, it does not have some features others demonstrated so well, in mind : real-time 3D and the likes. So it's basically a subset of great things but there are still other demos that worth to be enjoyed.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 20:18, 25 March 11
Now, who's for a demo gallery with YT vids on the wiki? :)

I
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: cpc4eva on 21:34, 25 March 11
I really can't remember any early-day demos being better than this. And to be frank, it'd be unfair to compare them. Batman has so much more advanced aesthetics and polish than anything I remember seeing.

Maybe, TFM, you could give some examples? I'm really curious.

Now, who's for a demo gallery with YT vids on the wiki? :)


we don't already have one ?


I
 


I 2nd the motion.....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJosZfm560Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=103s


dont know if above link works but im keen to learn about the music and FX especially the tune starting at 1min 39sec on the youtube video.


is it original ? has it been pulled / sampled from anywhere ?


the reason i ask cause it blows me away - so crisp and authentic too good for cpc's 3 channel AY chip (that i can remember hearing) and reminds me a little bit not a whole lot of something sci fi - ish ?


as for the debate - its been a hellava long time since any of us have been blown away by watching cpc demos - i cant recall a cpc demo having such a massive impact on the cpc'ers as this one.


I did like alot of cpc demo's from 80s, 90s and 00s - THE DEMO was a standout and was impressed with LOGON system and Longshot's cpc demo work in general.  I did enjoy the cpc demo's you could interact with by pressing a key to do a screen scroll etc etc etc


BUT the BATMAN FOREVER cpc group have done such an amazingly stunning magnifico stupendus wonderous job with this demo its got to be the best cpc demo  :-\
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TomEtJerry on 21:42, 25 March 11
Hi,

Well, I think about Face Hugger Megademo :-). When this piece of code has been spreaded, it was incredible and so different from the common cpc demos. The only real lake of this demo was graphics (ok, one part was ugly too :-) ).

T&J/GPA


Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 22:37, 25 March 11
Oh, I think almost every demo deserves to be a considered! From my point of view all coders, graphic artists or musiscian so far are inventors or "digitizer" of their imaginations and ideas.
There are lots of good demos available. But comparing demos on subjective impressions may often lead to different meanings. So, good performance indicators may help for a good competition? (e.g. speed of real-time calculations, fast algorithm, number of calculated dots at once, number of used techniques (flipping, overscan, disc loader, crtc use, even extensions, music samples). There has to be a good jury out of a coder, musician, designer or just ask representive number of people how the demo is and the highest number wins, a simple poll as it is on pouet.net?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 00:33, 26 March 11
I really can't remember any early-day demos being better than this. And to be frank, it'd be unfair to compare them. Batman has so much more advanced aesthetics and polish than anything I remember seeing.

Maybe, TFM, you could give some examples? I'm really curious.

Now, who's for a demo gallery with YT vids on the wiki? :)

So look, watching demos is like watching movies. It depends on your personal taste and like Rhino mentioned before on your 'philosophy' in this things.
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: khisanth on 13:36, 26 March 11
Just fired this up on my 6128 with the HxC floppy emulator and it looks even better on a TV with SCART connection.

Next step is to hook it up to the 42" plasma downstairs and see if I can get the audio going through my 5.1 amp, that should look and sound damn awesome.

 8)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 23:02, 26 March 11
Cool! Next CPC demo will be released soon by TFM! I am happy and cannot wait to see it! ;)
But it must be a non-FutureOS demo! On a normal 128k CPC!

Before you see me moving to an inferior OS you rather go blind  8) 
 
Further I like to create programs, that can be used. Demos are nice to be watched, but watching is all you can do with them. Even if they have the best effects, you never can use them for something else (a sensefull prog. f.e.). I prefer to use this kind of effects in games or even apps. That makes more sense for me. But this is again personal taste. I did one single real 'demo' and CPCAI bought it (after the release of my article about CPC Plus), so they got the rights - and I stay to contracts written with(out) blood  ;)  But I have seriously no plans to do any kind of demo in future.
 
@Redpoint:  ::) 8) 8) 8) :laugh:
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ssg on 00:28, 28 March 11
@tfm: demos are utilities too. their function is to inspire.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 00:31, 28 March 11
@tfm: demos are utilities too. their function is to inspire.

In an spiritual way you're right for sure ;D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ssg on 01:57, 28 March 11
In an spiritual way you're right for sure ;D

(sorry for off topic but this is interesting) i totally hear you. i get a different sense of accomplishment out of developing utilities too. however i think we're fooling ourselves when we call upon the argument of usefulness. :) i bet the number of useless utilities are more than actually useful or at least usable ones, yet we can't keep ourselves from writing them.

utilities are our comfort zone because they rely on solid needs and requirements of people. that means the beginning of the path we need to walk is narrowed down and sketched out for us already. we start with ready-made guidelines, solid requirements. that makes the whole creation process much more compatible with analytical thinking of programming therefore more comfortable.

i think painters would get a smilar sense of comfort and accomplishment whenever they paint by looking at an existing view, person or thing.

demos on the other hand serve very vague -and as you put it very well- "spiritual" needs. such needs like "to be entertained" or "to be amazed" are harder to contain and to split into parts. our analytical approach fails on artistic creation and that's when we start to feel nervous.  like it's not hard enough, it's also got to be a teamwork! which almost changes all the rules of the game. now how can anyone blame us when we stay in our warm bed of utilities :)

but i think demos are also good just because of the same reasons: exercising imagination and teamwork.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 16:45, 28 March 11
^^^What he said.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: einoeL on 16:56, 28 March 11
Some users of the german "Forum64" wants to buy a CPC.
"Batman Forever" is the reason => death-bed repentance.

...more than 3500 video-invocations on YouTube by now!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 19:27, 28 March 11
Some users of the german "Forum64" wants to buy a CPC.


Really? Interesting! Any links?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 19:50, 28 March 11
well spoken ssg! As he says, why people create music or paintings if   it's not practical?  because it's inspiring and that's human nature.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: einoeL on 00:48, 29 March 11
Really? Interesting! Any links?

 
http://www.forum64.de/wbb3/board314-au-erhalb-des-c64/board21-sonstige-computer/board245-schneider-amstrad/board22-cpc/41836-batman-forever/ (http://www.forum64.de/wbb3/board314-au-erhalb-des-c64/board21-sonstige-computer/board245-schneider-amstrad/board22-cpc/41836-batman-forever/)
 
 :)
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 10:42, 29 March 11
Nice... :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 08:51, 06 April 11
Hm! All the mirrors at Pouet.net are down! Anyone has all the versions so that we can host it on the wiki?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 13:49, 06 April 11
Hm! All the mirrors at Pouet.net are down! Anyone has all the versions so that we can host it on the wiki?

You don't have them? tztztztzzz
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 16:45, 06 April 11
Nope, not all of them - only the double-sided version.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 19:03, 06 April 11
I am sure you find them on cpc-power... ;)
http://www.cpc-power.com/cpcdemos/index.php?page=detail&num=1756
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 11:46, 07 April 11
*cough* forgot about that.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 15:08, 01 May 11
Just to tell that there is currently an interesting debate between Longshot and Rhino at CPCrulez... in English !

The Coder Clash !

http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4492&start=150



This is quite "violent" and many casualties are already reported.
Yet the Victor hasn't emerged yet... :laugh:



More seriously this is quite interesting because this may be a source for sweet technical informations for all of you coders.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 21:49, 01 May 11
I lost them halfway through :D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 22:45, 01 May 11
More seriously this is quite interesting because this may be a source for sweet technical informations for all of you coders.

Pah! I put them both in my pockets!!! They can fight for 2. place. Now! Time for new Coder war here...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
... only joking. .... More seriously, I hope they get along. The real productive CPC scene is quite small!!!!!!!!!
 
 
 
Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated... like using my good old Filmemacher. However, my judging is different: For me it depends what you can see on the screen. The way you manage it plays only second role.
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: nurgle on 02:08, 02 May 11
Just got around watching the Demo (little spare time, plus my own tool dskwrite would'nt produce a working copy). This is the most amazing thing I have seen on a CPC in a long time. Cool! Now I have to adapt dskwrite again...  :P
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 17:56, 02 May 11
Just to tell that there is currently an interesting debate between Longshot and Rhino at CPCrulez... in English !

The Coder Clash !

http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4492&start=150



This is quite "violent" and many casualties are already reported.
Yet the Victor hasn't emerged yet...



More seriously this is quite interesting because this may be a source for sweet technical informations for all of you coders.


hehe, how you like the violence!  8)
More seriously, I have no interest in having problems with anybody, but after a long hard work, I can not allow it to be falsely discredited.


Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated...

What??!!!  :o I see that Longshot manipulation is working very well  >:( hehe

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MaV on 18:25, 02 May 11
Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated...

He did not prove anything so far.
If you read any further, rhino does explain what he's actually done. Rhino even offered an isolated version of the scroller as evidence that it is NOT precalculated.

So far I've seen nothing to prove that everything is precalculated, at least not more is precalculated than in other demos.

MaV
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 22:09, 02 May 11
Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated...

TFM/FS it looks like you didn't read the thread thoroughly. Before saying thinks like that please be more careful and back your opinions by investigating first, and not simply judging by guessing after watching it the first time. Rhino proved wrong (with precise details) Longshot's deductions for not knowing and understanding the code enough

it's not nice underrating someone's work when that person put a lot of effort into it
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 22:21, 02 May 11
...or - after all - the result is - from a viewing side - just a pretty good demo :)
...isn't it?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 22:32, 02 May 11
...or - after all - the result is - from a viewing side - just a pretty good demo :)
...isn't it?

absolutely  :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Executioner on 07:19, 03 May 11
If it ANY demo has a pre-calculated SIN table for example, it must be shit. You're supposed to use the Z80 to calculate it using logarithms, which also can't be pre-calculated. If you use a PC to do any of the work then it's definitely no good, never mind coding on an emulator. Don't you know your supposed to type in the op-codes by hand on a real CPC 464 and only save the code to tape since even assemblers and disc drives are tools that make it too easy to write proper demos.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 07:47, 03 May 11
Sorry Executionner but you are completely wrong...

A proper CPC code has to be at first done for speccy48.
THEN it has to be ported on said Amstrad CPC 464.
 ;D

Look at all the cool games such technique gave us.



Anyway, the precalculated-realtime debate seem to be as old as Demoscene.

To me (a novice on the matter) I would say that wanting no precalculation is also a way to limit yourself.

Also an 8 bit computer is simply limited.
Getting some precalculations or "cheating" a bit is also a way to get Artistical stuffs that would otherwise be simply impossible.

It's as if in Comics, some inker would tell another one his work is shyte because he uses a screen-tone project kit* while it is more hardcore to do your ditherings by hands with a pencil.

Manga or american comics or even european Bande Desssinée can actually use both.


*this is some Decalcomania ditherings (dots or lines or whatever) that you can apply to your drawings to get shadowings or textures effects.. those are of course regular and can be differently shaped.
Very used in Mangas.
Of course modern computer graphics softwares include this.

Funnily, such a debate is quite actual in Comic Books industry...

-Tracers : peoples who "trace" from photo... Greg Land per exemple, his superheroines are actually pornstars and he often re-use same bits of drawing.
-Real natural colours of Computer colouring : you directly paint the original drawn strips or you scan them and use computer to get the colours...
-even to use rules and compass for the actual drawings...

But the plain fact is : as long as it looks good and the story is interesting, who care?


and so on.


So vast debate.

Technical Demo or Artistic Demo ?

To me, getting some 512K piece of code to run continuously for about 10 minutes... well ok if you have a 16bit computer such as Amiga or ST, with DMA on DiskDrives, and RAMs bigger than what a disk can handle (1 disk is 720K on ST, while RAM is often 1024K...) there is no real problem...

But on a CPC... loading while runing tunes/stuff was never used for games per exemple... it is a delicate process that is actually part of the technical approach and even add additionnal constraints.
And RAM is drastically limited, even in 128K mode.

best way is to cleverly mix both aspect of the Demo : Artistical and Technical prowness, as fit best.


Just like :
"oh look at this multiscoll overcan fullscreen scrolltext... "
Guy, it sucks, you only display letters characters, to get the text telling how good you are displayed many time in many colours and  many scrolls just to display "look how I am good as scrolltext"...
But :
-unreadable : scrolltext are often not easy to read...
-Texts ? there is no art in this...


I prefer the shadow of the beast demo to any multiscroll text (be it with even more paralax and rasters and so on).


Just a matter of opinion.


Perhaps nationnalistic concern occured.

Spain = games.
France = Demo.
Germany = hardware and OS...lol.

oops, now Spain = both games and demos.

Well, until the new R-type is released...(Spain tends to produce a lot of speccy ports theses days...)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 09:57, 03 May 11
Heheh +1 Executioner, Hal...

I really don't care if it's precalculated or not. If precalculation and cross-dev is the way to go forward several stages (or one QL ;) ) then so be it, I really love the demo...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: McKlain on 09:59, 03 May 11
If it ANY demo has a pre-calculated SIN table for example, it must be shit. You're supposed to use the Z80 to calculate it using logarithms, which also can't be pre-calculated. If you use a PC to do any of the work then it's definitely no good, never mind coding on an emulator. Don't you know your supposed to type in the op-codes by hand on a real CPC 464 and only save the code to tape since even assemblers and disc drives are tools that make it too easy to write proper demos.

LOL  :laugh:

Well, until the new R-type is released...(Spain tends to produce a lot of speccy ports theses days...)
   

Double LOL  :laugh:

I hope that my spanish comrades release UWOL 1 and King's Valley asap 8)

Mac, I agree with you about the texscrollers. Most boring stuff ever invented.

I guess that the focus of a demo depends of your target audience. Maybe you are doing it to amuse your coder friends and put a load of effects and textscrollers explaning what you just did, using some ripped background music from some game or from an old demo, or a converted tune from atari st. Or maybe you have a theme for the demo and just want to make everybody amused and have them entertained for a few minutes. I prefer the "trackmo" style, of course.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 10:11, 03 May 11
Textscrolls were good for Cracktro... yet for proper demo this simply can't be a main subject or an end in itself...


Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: McKlain on 10:20, 03 May 11
Agreed. And we are not in the 80's anymore.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: PhilZeVibe on 10:56, 03 May 11
Really boring discussion indeed, arguing about such an over-discussed subject that is the classical space (memory) vs time tradeoff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-time_tradeoff

Yes, we can exchange execution time at the expense of memory and vice versa. Big news ::)

If you choose to go with full realtime calculations for everything, then your demo effects will be simplistic and thus fail to impress.
If you choose to go with full precalc datas, then you will have a 8MB filmmacher-like animation that will fail to impress anyone too.

So, like all tradeoffs, it's a matter of searching the sweet spot for your demo needs, finding the best bang for the buck.
And for what I see, Batman Forever was the best CPC demo ever at this. 600KB is really really small when you consider all the stuff  that is shown during the show.
I think that those qualifying these effects as (video-like) animations have lost their mind >:(
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MaV on 11:21, 03 May 11
If it ANY demo has a pre-calculated SIN table for example, it must be shit. You're supposed to use the Z80 to calculate it using logarithms, which also can't be pre-calculated. If you use a PC to do any of the work then it's definitely no good, never mind coding on an emulator. Don't you know your supposed to type in the op-codes by hand on a real CPC 464 and only save the code to tape since even assemblers and disc drives are tools that make it too easy to write proper demos.

Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up at four o'clock in the morning to start the generator, two hours before going to sleep, and wire our own sin tables with our tongues. We had half a handful of op-codes, coded twenty-four hours a day for the demo, and when we finished it, we'd magnetise the bits directly onto tape using a handful of iron filings.

But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'. Nope, nope, ...

:D :D :D :D
Just couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 11:34, 03 May 11
That's nothing! We had to push the electrons with tiny sticks while being beaten with old Commodore disk drives.....etc etc.... :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:41, 03 May 11
@Mav, @Bryce: excellent.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: fano on 11:44, 03 May 11
Perhaps nationnalistic concern occured.

Spain = games.
France = Demo.
Germany = hardware and OS...lol.

oops, now Spain = both games and demos.

Well, until the new R-type is released...(Spain tends to produce a lot of speccy ports theses days...)
This is not serious , CPC scene is small enough to speak about people themselves instead of nationality.About incoming R-Type, you are wrong, it IS a Speccy port  :laugh: (about speccy , if someone sells a cheap +3 with power supply , even without drive :P )
And i am waiting too theses incoming Spanish prods like Uwol or Bubble Bobble 4 ;D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:47, 03 May 11
The Coder Clash !
I knew the storm was coming ;)

Talking about code is ok, incorrect claims and arguments is not so fun.
look, in the end, some code, gfx and music produced a nice result that shocked many people.
So... when will the next great demo come?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: fano on 12:05, 03 May 11
hehe we are now waiting a reply from Vanity as they said  ;)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: redbox on 12:12, 03 May 11
To read the technical explanation of the demo techniques is of course very interesting, but it is a shame that it's descended into an argument...  ::)


For me, the truly great achievement of this demo is the 'feel' of it.  Everything is in perfect sync, the music, the trackloading, the visual effects.  It's the first true 16/32 bit type demo for the CPC, and that's amazing.


It is a great, great achievement and it was nice to see someone new come to the platform (and work with other coders) to make something which shows how the CPC can shine.  :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 12:14, 03 May 11
Then the new person gets a bashing.. and they leave?  >:(
well this could be the outcome, but really we don't want this.

But I agree with you completely.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: McKlain on 12:46, 03 May 11
When there are few people on the scene and they are also fighting each other... we have a problem.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: fano on 13:32, 03 May 11
I'd not see that as a fight , there are interesting posts on CPCrulez about technical aspect.I don't think Longshot wants to discredit this amazing demo but to speak about technical aspect (he found this demo great as he wrote in several posts).For sure , Rhino and Longshot do not share the same point so discution is hard.
Anyway that will not change my point on this demo that it is the best demo on CPC (despite the fact some technics had already be seen in older demos) and my good opinion about Longshot and Rhino.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: AMSDOS on 14:20, 03 May 11
I've done precalculated and calculated routines myself and both have advantages and disadvantages, the big disadvantage obviously in precalculating everything is having the memory to put it in, pretty difficult if not impossible if your writing a demo with Overscan, Rasters, Scrolling, Sound - and want it all to work in 64k! Would probably get away doing that on 128k demo, though the whole thing seems a sheer waste!  ???  A good programmer would tap into the Z80 and have the proper calculations to produce a reasonible routine.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: McKlain on 14:23, 03 May 11
I don't think that a bad programmer could achieve something like Batman Forever either  :laugh:
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 18:32, 03 May 11
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU CPC CODERS!!!!
usually in the demoscene when you want to beat someone
you create a fucking demo with technics better than the ones your opponent had delivered

Rhino has created a MASTERPIECE that dismantled not only the cpcscene but also the c64 scene.
He has put us back on the map!!!
It was his first ever demo on cpc for god's shake

YOU smartashes believe you are better???(that goes for the 5 cpcsceners-coders that are busting our balls in various forums attacking Rhino)
WE will judge that!!!

UNTILL any of you shows something better
Shut the fuck up and start coding

@Rhino
the cpcscene (-5 di..heads) are with you all the way
stop explaining to certain people how you created BF
its not like they are producing anything nor they learn
YOU cannot teach an old dog new tricks
Pouet score is 288 atm sit back and enjoy your triumph





@gryzor
σορρυ φιλε για την επιθετικη γλωσσα αλλα μου τα εχουν πρηξει
οι κατα τα αλλα δεινοσαυροι του scene με τις μαμακιες τους
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MaV on 19:04, 03 May 11
@gryzor
σορρυ φιλε για την επιθετικη γλωσσα αλλα μου τα εχουν πρηξει
οι κατα τα αλλα δεινοσαυροι του scene με τις μαμακιες τους

Don't plead to Gryzor for sympathy. What you've done is extremely rude. Most of us do not criticise the demo. We're discussing a few points of the demo, and some here do not share the same anxiousness for whatever reasons.


Quote
WE will judge that!!!

UNTILL any of you shows something better
Shut the fuck up and start coding

Yes, we do judge BF, and even those five "smart-ass" coders may judge it. And almost all of us think it's the best 8-bit demo. What's wrong with you?

You don't have to know how to build a table to judge the quality of the work done by a carpenter.
A lot of users here can't code in assembly, a lot do not have time to do demos. And we've got jobs, family and lives.

Hm, let me put it another way: why don't you start with yourself and do a better demo, then come back and insult us.

MaV
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 19:19, 03 May 11
@MaV
you have to see the movie Lost in Translation

As for everything else you wrote
no comment
I deeply respect your sayings or not
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 19:24, 03 May 11
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU CPC CODERS!!!!
usually in the demoscene when you want to beat someone
you create a fucking demo with technics better than the ones your opponent had delivered

Rhino has created a MASTERPIECE that dismantled not only the cpcscene but also the c64 scene.
He has put us back on the map!!!
It was his first ever demo on cpc for god's shake

YOU smartashes believe you are better???(that goes for the 5 cpcsceners-coders that are busting our balls in various forums attacking Rhino)
WE will judge that!!!

UNTILL any of you shows something better
Shut the fuck up and start coding

@Rhino
the cpcscene (-5 di..heads) are with you all the way
stop explaining to certain people how you created BF
its not like they are producing anything nor they learn
YOU cannot teach an old dog new tricks
Pouet score is 288 atm sit back and enjoy your triumph





@gryzor
σορρυ φιλε για την επιθετικη γλωσσα αλλα μου τα εχουν πρηξει
οι κατα τα αλλα δεινοσαυροι του scene με τις μαμακιες τους

You talk pretty loud here, so where are your productions? Any links?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 19:37, 03 May 11

You talk pretty loud here, so where are your productions? Any links?


I didnt attack Rhino's work
Others did
So the Real question is where are YOURS???

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 20:31, 03 May 11
The main problem is that a french speaking english like a spanish cow and a spanish speaking english like a french cow... how can they understand each other properly in English... ;D

Not Mother's tongue = some words may be interpreted with a different meaning as what you had in mind.

Also when you spent a lot of time and work on your production (Rhino) it is quite understandable that a few misunderstanding or even some construtive critisisms may hurt.


Also, Longshot is quite an historical figure/legend in CPC world. (sort of)
Yet he may have his own conception of Demo-coding that may not be fully followed by others.

"precalculated" Vs "Real Time"... older than dirt debate.

Yet still the one who start clashes.

Rhino wanted to do some demo fo the whole Demo scene to see what a CPC can do.
While the CPC demoscene is known for being quite a private family.

But thing are perhaps changing.

Now that east Europe know about this machine. ;)

Quote
I've done precalculated and calculated routines myself and both have   advantages and disadvantages, the big disadvantage obviously in   precalculating everything is having the memory to put it in, pretty   difficult if not impossible if your writing a demo with Overscan,   Rasters, Scrolling, Sound - and want it all to work in 64k! Would   probably get away doing that on 128k demo, though the whole thing seems a   sheer waste!  (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/akyhne/huh.gif)  A good programmer would tap into the Z80 and have the proper calculations to produce a reasonible routine.
CPC being heavy on video, to get something to rivalize with 16bit computers needs a 6128 specification IMO.

That's the only way to get your Z80 some room to breath and expend itself into Fullscreen, multiload and so on...
I mean... a fullscreen of uncompressed Graphics is 24K minimum...


Optimum CPC config would even be with 256K RAM as a standard feature (TO8 ?)

Quote
Quote from: spybro (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,2085.msg23383.html#msg23383)
please don't be so rude my friend...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 20:42, 03 May 11

I didnt attack Rhino's work
Others did
So the Real question is where are YOURS???

I didn't attack Rhinos work either. Now my work can be found here:
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/TFM (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/TFM)
 
or just check out my actual project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfZsoN4wrU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfZsoN4wrU)
 
 
But finally YOU did attack people here in common, so again, where is your work?
 
Nothing?
 
If you can't show something, I suggest to become a bit less offensive.
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 09:57, 04 May 11
So, we're having our *own* argument here? Unbelievable :D

@Spybro: I agree 100% with you, mate, but try to keep the tone down :)
@everyone else: why did you get offended by Spybro? I really don't understand.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: AMSDOS on 10:42, 04 May 11
I personally didn't see anything said against Batman Forever, though I can only presume someone must had said something which lead to the discussion of Precalculated & Calculated routines. I was only talking from my experience and yes I've done both, though all I can say is if Batman Forever is Calculating how the tricks are being performed, it's performing it very efficently. I simply feel it's nice piece of programming set out to done what they wanted done!  ;D  *Peace*
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Octoate on 11:06, 04 May 11
@everyone else: why did you get offended by Spybro? I really don't understand.
Well, his post (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,2085.msg23383.html#msg23383) is very harsh with a very rude language. In my opinion it offends even the people who are not criticizing the demo and most (if not all) users of this forum didn't even criticize it.

@DemoStyle: I personally don't care about the technical details when I watch a demo. I want to be entertained and Batman Forever did that in a great way :-).
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 15:23, 04 May 11
@Spybro: No need for aggresiveness here. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. I know some opinions are too weird when you have clearly witnessed a masterpiece and yet you hear people complaining about it. In many major smashing releases there are still few people complaining. You can't understand it at first, who would not like such a great demo. But you see it all the time, for example at Pouet for PC/C64/Amiga masterpieces with 200 thumbs up you find those 2-3 thumbs down and try to read the ridiculous comments ("Oh,. it   doesn't run on Linux, thumbs down!", "Oh,. the shadows are blue, so it must suck :P " sort of bullshit :PPP). It hapeness. I don't think it's done on purpose though. Someone might not like something for his own reasons you cannot understand. I respect he can have a different opinion and I find one negative opinion between 200 positive, "funny", interesting or different. Oh btw, TFM, can you explain me in detail what do you mean that CPC demos from 89-91 were better than BF? This puzzled me for weeks :)
 
As for the demo, everyone is arguing on the 3d animations. This was the less interesting part for me (It was still interesting was how the animation player works so fast, but that's it). Based on that argumentation they almost go to say that the demo is a bunch of animations. The bats on window animation (which combines the zoomer too, cool) and the cube at the end are just there to fill the narrative story at the beginning and the fast paced trackmo at   the end. The only animation parts left are the 3d city and the 3d bat. If you remove these parts there are still interesting effects, the zoomers, rotozoomer, twister and nobody talks about the dots which I love even if they are full software rendered. Why does anyone argue about animations   when there are so much to see? Regardless all that, there is so much to see from design, graphics, transitions, trackmo style, ideas, funny texts, it's overall a very entertaining demo yet people focus on whether something was precalculated or not? Does that alone make it a bad demo?
 
Something more that I fail to understand. Well, I don't know very much about the CRTC. Some people claimed that "it doesn't have as advanced CRTC techniques as other CPC demos". First of all, I fail to understand what an advanced CRTC technique is. I know that with the CRTC you can expand borders and have overscan which is all over the place in the demo. I know that you can make line split so that you select which videoram lines to display. This is the most standard thing I see in many CPC demos (and other 8bit demos). I don't know any other effect. Ok,. in BF many of the effects were just copying the first line of the videoram and then changed raster colours (like the zoomers). I think some effects also changed the videoram starting address per line and that was attributed as more advanced CRTC trick. Am I missing some CRTC effects that are more advanced? The BF demo does all the basic stuff and combines them with clever ideas to display something not seen before in such scale and speed on the CPC. I was thrilled to know that the zoomers were just copying first line (Reg9 I think with another Reg?) and then in a stable display just change colours per few lines, because I was initially thinking of a harder way (stretching every bitmap on X with software and selecting lines with CRTC hardware) which I never did because I was scared on the CRTC and timing with these software codes. But his way is much easier and clever with the symmetric 32 pixel bitmap. So, who cares if it's not as advanced when it's more impressive in result than all the classic hardware tricks that are supposed to be more advanced(?) (I am still expecting an answer to this, because I don't know the CRTC very well, and I am puzzled with what is supposed to be an advanced effect)
 
As for the fights, this is the scene I have known for years. For me, scene quarells is mostly a matter of getting a pack of popcorn and enjoying it because I can't take it seriously anymore. You know that when you meet these people at a demoparty they will be all peace and love.
 
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: McKlain on 15:31, 04 May 11
@Spybro: No need for aggresiveness here. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. I know some opinions are too weird when you have clearly witnessed a masterpiece and yet you hear people complaining about it. In many major smashing releases there are still few people complaining. You can't understand it at first, who would not like such a great demo. But you see it all the time, for example at Pouet for PC/C64/Amiga masterpieces with 200 thumbs up you find those 2-3 thumbs down and try to read the ridiculous comments ("Oh,. it   doesn't run on Linux, thumbs down!", "Oh,. the shadows are blue, so it must suck :P " sort of bullshit :PPP). It hapeness. I don't think it's done on purpose though. Someone might not like something for his own reasons you cannot understand. I respect he can have a different opinion and I find one negative opinion between 200 positive, "funny", interesting or different. Oh btw, TFM, can you explain me in detail what do you mean that CPC demos from 89-91 were better than BF? This puzzled me for weeks :)
 
As for the demo, everyone is arguing on the 3d animations. This was the less interesting part for me (Interesting was how the animation player works so fast). Based on that argumentation they almost go to say that   the demo is a bunch of animations. The bats on window animation (which combines the zoomer too, cool) and the cube at the end are just there to fill the narrative story at the beginning and the fast paced trackmo at   the end. The only animation parts left are the 3d city and the 3d bat.   If you remove these parts there are still interesting calculated   effects, the zoomers, nobody talks about the dots which I love even if they are full software rendered. Why does anyone argue about animations   when there are so much to see? Regardless all that, there is so much to see from design, graphics, transitions, trackmo style, ideas, funny texts, it's overall a very entertaining demo yet people focus on whether something was precalculated or not? Does that alone make it a bad demo?
 
Something more that I fail to understand. Well, I don't know very much about the CRTC. Some people claimed that "it doesn't have as advanced CRTC techniques as other CPC demos". First of all, I fail to understand what an advanced CRTC technique is. I know that with the CRTC you can expand borders and have overscan which is all over the place in the demo. I know that you can make line split so that you select which videoram lines to display. This is the most standard thing I see in many CPC demos (and other 8bit demos). I don't know any other effect. Ok,. in BF many of the effects were just copying the first line of the videoram and then changed raster colours (like the zoomers). I think some effects also changed the videoram starting address per line and that was attributed as more advanced CRTC trick. Am I missing some CRTC effects that are more advanced? The BF demo does all the basic stuff and combines them with clever ideas to display something not seen before in such scale and speed on the CPC. I was thrilled to know that the zoomers were just copying first line (Reg9 I think with another Reg?) and then in a stable display just change colours per few lines, because I was initially thinking of a harder way (stretching every bitmap on X with software and selecting lines with CRTC hardware) which I never did because I was scared on the CRTC and timing with these software codes. But his way is much easier and clever with the symmetric 32 pixel bitmap. So, who cares if it's not as advanced when it's more impressive in result than all the classic hardware tricks that are supposed to be more advanced(?) (I am still expecting an answer to this, because I don't know the CRTC very well, and I am puzzled with what is supposed to be an advanced effect)
 
As for the fights, this is the scene I have known for years. For me, scene quarells is mostly a matter of getting a pack of popcorn and enjoying it because I can't take it seriously anymore. You know that when you meet these people at a demoparty they will be all peace and love.
 

Where's the "Like" button?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 15:40, 04 May 11
I wasn't offended but such a strong language doesn't help to get into a peacefull CPC-scene... :laugh:

You can put as any fucks you want in a demo... but not in forums I guess... ;)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 20:09, 04 May 11
@everyone else: why did you get offended by Spybro? I really don't understand.

Well, maybe because he uses a bit toooo strong words... He may be right from his POV (I also agree in some way...), but that's not a reason to insult the community. Well, think about other posts, you Gryzor kicked peoples butt for far less. You should - as moderator - keep equal level for all people here. No offense, but since you did ask... Now let's get this discussion back on facts and good understanding.
 
Oh btw, TFM, can you explain me in detail what do you mean that CPC demos from 89-91 were better than BF? This puzzled me for weeks :)

I don't like to answer, because I'm afraid to start a new war here. So I try to be diplomatic. If you like or dislike a demo more or less depends only on your personal taste. But I just want to remember some Demos (an please don't bother me by fixing me on particular years of release, ok?). So I do remember as all time great demos: Aliens demos, Face Huggers Megademo, Digital Orgasm from Prodatron, The demo, Divine, Heavy Metal, Ecole buissionaire, Optimus demo with that flames (forgot the name), a bunch of Odiesofts demos which have been always a revolution and now especailly From Scratch from Vanity. (And I forgot now 100 others...). While from Scratch really shows now effect, the effects shown in BF are not new - but look amazing. Again, this is just POV.
 
You can put as any fucks you want in a demo... but not in forums I guess... ;)
Well, as we have seen, some can, some not ;)  But I don't want to read it in a demo either :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 20:41, 04 May 11

 Digital Orgasm from Prodatron




Prodatron....the creator of the most complex complete awesome piece of software on cpc!!!
SymbOs rulezzzz  ;)

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 21:45, 04 May 11



Prodatron....the creator of the most complex complete awesome piece of software on cpc!!!
SymbOs rulezzzz  ;)

Actually Prodis Digital Orgasm is still my favorite demo, together with From Scratch, Ecole Buissionaire and maybe soon (I always need some time for this...) with BF together.
But the CPC is very rich of wonderful demos. Maybe there are even more demos than games. We would need a CPC Demos CD  ;)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: redbox on 22:34, 04 May 11
I don't like to answer, because I'm afraid to start a new war here.

Aliens demos, Face Huggers Megademo, Digital Orgasm from Prodatron, The demo, Divine, Heavy Metal, Ecole buissionaire, Optimus demo with that flames (forgot the name), a bunch of Odiesofts demos which have been always a revolution and now especailly From Scratch from Vanity.

Classic stuff.  8)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: fano on 23:05, 04 May 11
Don't forget some other like DTC , Demo is Art , Tire Au Flanc , Backtro or S&Koh (despite the fact it is mainly scrollers)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 23:43, 04 May 11
Very true! There are so much wonderful demos! :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: cpc4eva on 03:41, 05 May 11
Holy crap - I go away from cpcwiki forums for a week or so and its like they killed bin laden and had a royal wedding and nuked hiroshima and started world war 3 and I didnt even know....


note to self dont leave the cpcwiki for that long next time  :)





Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Bryce on 10:13, 05 May 11
The CPCWiki is your main (only) source of news?? You need to diversify! :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 11:43, 05 May 11
@Octo: I don't think Spybro intended to insult anyone here, he was referring to those who initiated the vs mode.
@Optimus: Couldn't agree more
@mcklain: I thought about adding a reputation system but I didn't see much use for it...
@TFM: actually, only a couple of persons have been banned for reasons very well known, that went far beyond a rude and angry post. Get your facts together.

But, I agree and can't really sympathise with such strong wording - if nothing else, it fuels the rivalry... Sorry, Spybro, but as I said, though I agree, the same stuff could be said with more calmness...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:48, 05 May 11
The CPCWiki is your main (only) source of news?? You need to diversify! :D

Bryce.
What other news do we need?
I find cpcwiki news is more fulfilling than listenting/watching news on television, radio or online.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 20:22, 05 May 11
Seriously, man? Seriously? Will you EVER learn how to behave?

Tsk... what an arse...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: EgoTrip on 20:32, 05 May 11
Cant you see how damaging this thread is?


Look at it this way. Batman Forever is a remarkable demo, and when searching for it people may come across this thread. They will see the totally pointless arguing, and could be put off by it. This thread is the worst possible place for this type of behaviour, which makes me wonder if its intentional or not.


Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but arent most people here in their late 20's at the youngest? This makes it even more tragic.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 20:41, 05 May 11
Spybro can talk Greek here, but I'm not allowed to talk in German. I can only wonder about the moderation.

Well, it's not because the Language you used, but the content.
(Which was not too offensive IMO)
BTW.: I gave it up to wonder...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 20:42, 05 May 11
Cant you see how damaging this thread is?


Look at it this way. Batman Forever is a remarkable demo, and when searching for it people may come across this thread. They will see the totally pointless arguing, and could be put off by it. This thread is the worst possible place for this type of behaviour, which makes me wonder if its intentional or not.


Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but arent most people here in their late 20's at the youngest? This makes it even more tragic.

I agree totally!!!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: McKlain on 20:43, 05 May 11
Pure CPC Scene, fights and drama.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 20:46, 05 May 11
Any further in-fighting will be deleted. Don't say there wasn't a warning.

Btw, it would be interesting to see th average age of the CPC user... I'd say early to mid thirties, but I might be wrong. /OT
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: cpc4eva on 21:10, 05 May 11
I was thinking along the lines of WORLD WAR 3 had started here in this thread........ and i only was gone for such a short time -


can we stop it please :) its ruining a great forum and maybe stopping new members from joining...


BATMAN forever is an amazing CPC demo and just like other CPC demo's they make our machine the legendary 8bit piece of machinery that it is - tongue in cheek  :-*


if people want to goto war with each other then swap each other's MSN or FACEBOOK or whatever and have your war in those private chat windows....


and if anyone is going to use weapons of mass destruction can they blow up old trafford, sir alex ferguson, the whole man united 1st team, reserve team, u18team and about 80,000 of their fans at the next home game.....
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 21:12, 05 May 11
Somebody doesn't like a certain team I suspect... FLAME WAR! :D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: redbox on 21:29, 05 May 11
I think that the CPC is relatively a small scene compared to the C64 or Speccy, so unfourtunately the tw*ts stand out a little bit more.  :(
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: steve on 21:54, 05 May 11
can we stop it please :) its ruining a great forum and maybe stopping new members from joining...


Now we have all read the offending posts, they should be deleted as they are not relevant to why we are here.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ssg on 23:11, 05 May 11
People usually think of two distinct questions when watching an effect in a demo:

1) How is that possible?
2) Can a game use it?

and enter the debate "realtime vs precalc" there. Realtimers say "that effect is only for show", while precalc'ers say "that's exactly true".

The reason this debate never ends is that realtimers are in a logical fallacy that a realtime effect makes more sense because it can be applied to a game. However they omit the fact that there is a lot to more to a game than the effect itself, such as ai, sound effects, input, dashboard etc.

If everyone agrees that the level of applicability of an effect to a game is not relevant to how it's created, we can all go ahead and enjoy the raw competition.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 00:55, 06 May 11
That'a a very good point and explains the difference between games and demos in addition.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: AMSDOS on 11:16, 06 May 11

I agree totally!!!

Ditto, they can dribble on my weird and unorthodox routines or just wait until a Guest Ghost posts an Untitled Thread instead!  ;D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: spybro on 12:27, 06 May 11

and enter the debate "realtime vs precalc" there. Realtimers say "that effect is only for show", while precalc'ers say "that's exactly true".



if the debate was on that axis it would have been a healthy confrontation
instead what we've seen was some holy cows (especially in another cpc gathering place)
taking up on Batman Group
the main coder Rhino was in predicament and had to go open on his approach of coding
just to explain that its not about highend technics but also presentation
Lets be realistic Rhino comes from the Amiga family so it is natural that he has his way with demomaking
on the other hand most cpc demos until recent years looked like previews only few made it over to the other side with the help of the boatman eg Sappy


But what makes a good demo?
Is it the technics it is using?Of course!(from scratch)
Is it the music?Of course!Remember Jesus on E's?
Is it the concept story?Of course!Desert Dreams
Is it the artistic design?Hell yes! State of the Art


Now if you have all these you have a huge Wow factor


If you have some of these then its only mediocre


So having the mentioned elements in your armory
will get you a 288 score on pouet


Coming back on the so called debate(it was a cannibalism for me) only led to the departure of a unique
demomaker/presentation producer from the family orientated scene of cpc


as voxfreak wrote somewhere else
Thank you Batman Group for bringing pure innovation to our scene! Respect

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MaV on 14:42, 06 May 11
Coming back on the so called debate(it was a cannibalism for me) only led to the departure of a unique
demomaker/presentation producer from the family orientated scene of cpc


as voxfreak wrote somewhere else
Thank you Batman Group for bringing pure innovation to our scene! Respect

One technical aspect that even C64 users in other forums did praise was the mode 2 screen where the text is written with pixel waves.

This could have been realized on a C64 as well (albeit with lower resolution and probably less pixels), it is the idea itself that was new to the 8-bit scene.

The demo has more merits, but the discussion unfortunately sticks to bland debates of coding techniques.

What's left to say?

Thank you Batman Group for bringing pure innovation to us Amstrad users! :)

MaV





Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: HAL 6128 on 15:28, 06 May 11
But what makes a good demo?
Is it the technics it is using?Of course!(from scratch)
Is it the music?Of course!Remember Jesus on E's?
Is it the concept story?Of course!Desert Dreams
Is it the artistic design?Hell yes! State of the Art

... as TFM said: it's like watching a movie. You want to be "entertained" or at least you expect it. If all criterias are "good" (for a certain kind of subjective estimation) then the demo is "good". An extended criteria for a GAME apart the criterias above could be e.g. "how good a real personen is embedded into the game".

It's difficult to talk about those criterias if there is no consistent understanding what we are talking about. It's easier to say: "The technics for that zoomscrollers have a rating of 9 out of 10 point because it's speed of calculating (fps) has reached 95% of the actual benchmark". It's more difficult to measure a criteria which based on sympathy (like the content of music).
 
Or for expample: The Demo Batman Forever used pictures (as the author said) from the designer Bob Kane (drawn characters out of the Batman comics). Those influential paintings are for the most people wonderful but should not an component to assess that demo. They are copied or at least adapted ...they has been already good before the demo was created.
Even if the used technics has already been common the Batman demo created something of how to bring lots of single stuff into one demo together (visual technics, discloader, music between, story board and so on). That's what I didn't seen in that quantity/quality before.
 
But don't waste time in talking - please generate more demos!
Or with the words of a non-coder: I want to be entertained!
(I know... lazy ass I am).
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 17:47, 06 May 11
Demos are meant to entertain and wow. Batman Forever entertained and wowed, even if it achieved that my pre-calculating data. The algorithmic interest then turns to the fast on-screen rendering implementation rather than if it's doing the maths to rotate a city or batman logo. Great demo, great that it was made, great to see the CPC put to good use. End of.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: trocoloco on 17:51, 06 May 11
Thank you Batman Group for bringing pure innovation to us Amstrad users! :)

Same here!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 20:18, 06 May 11

Coming back on the so called debate(it was a cannibalism for me) only led to the departure of a unique
demomaker/presentation producer from the family orientated scene of cpc


Why? Who left?

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: einoeL on 23:18, 06 May 11
Batman Forever is the best CPC-Demo ever.
It really looks like an Amiga-Demo, the music stands out.
This Demo is a masterpiece with a funky flow.
Great entertainment.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 09:24, 07 May 11
Amen.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: jsa on 15:39, 23 May 11
Ummm, what exactly is amiga demo then ? I "just" got home from Streamparty VIII and we had interesting discussion there with old peeps from C64 scene and consensus was that Amiga demos really start to be more or less generic 3D flybys with music. Dunno if that is going to change as getting these accelerators for Amiga is getting harder and thus getting certain demos even running is getting tricky. Not everyone are happy how things are going, but then again it seems to be that C64 scene is more or less still active and there are more stuff coming for old breadbox... almost daily basis.

But let's see what happens in the future anyway, i suspect that more esoteric platforms are used to create demos. So there is still room for CPC as well :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 16:14, 05 June 11
Well, the demo was compared to Amiga 16bit demos not the AGA ones.
The modern amiga demos while not having the style and dynamics of the classic Amiga demos, they might be interesting for 3d coders. Still, I prefer watching some nifty 2d effects in between the 3d scenes.
Yep, the fun is 8bit forever :)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: 00WReX on 15:19, 02 January 12
Hi guys,
What are you doing/using to get this demo onto your CPC's.

I have a 3.5 inch drive on the CPC but only a USB floppy on my PC so I use writedsk.

This works really well for just about everything I throw at it, but not the Batman demo.

Just noticed that ManageDSK does not like it either...

Any help Appreciated.


Cheers,
Shane
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: fgbrain on 13:19, 15 January 12
Here's what I did and it worked fine for me:
(I have an external 3.5" drive as well..)

1 .Downloaded this double sided version:
http://www.cpc-power.com/cpcdemos/pages/download_part.php?fiche=1756&part=Batman%20forever%20%28UK%29%20%28128K%29%20%282011%29%20%5BBatman%20group%5D%20%5BDouble%20Side%20Drive%20Version%5D.dsk (http://www.cpc-power.com/cpcdemos/pages/download_part.php?fiche=1756&part=Batman%20forever%20%28UK%29%20%28128K%29%20%282011%29%20%5BBatman%20group%5D%20%5BDouble%20Side%20Drive%20Version%5D.dsk)
2. Used CPCDiskXP 2.1 to write to a 3.5" disk
3. Then RUN"disc on my 6128 and you're off!!!

Unfortunately, ManageDSK still doesn't support double sided DSKs..
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 23:22, 16 January 12
Just to notice that BF didn't run in my CPC if the drive is B. Needed an additional switch to see the original 3" as B and the 3.5" as A.
I have only tried to write the three separate DSK sides. Maybe I tried to copy the double sided originally and also had troubles.




Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 18:51, 17 January 12
Just to notice that BF didn't run in my CPC if the drive is B. Needed an additional switch to see the original 3" as B and the 3.5" as A.
I have only tried to write the three separate DSK sides. Maybe I tried to copy the double sided originally and also had troubles.

Hi Optimus :-) If I understand you right, then you did manage to transfer it to 3.5". Now, you can use Discology to transfer it to 3".

This demo seems to be a pain in the aXX for some more users ;-)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Devilmarkus on 21:01, 17 January 12
Well I transferred it once with JavaCPC directly to 3", had no trouble with it...
(But you need a 3" disk drive connected to your PC)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 02:55, 18 January 12
Hi,

The demo (one disk version) should work from both A and B.
The problems with three disks version come if you have two drives but you do not insert both disks in drives as indicated in the initial message. As arnoldemu said me, this is because after the initial message, it checks if the disks are properly inserted in drives but when some drives are empty the loader does not work more after this checking process and an error message is showed in red.

Then, if you have a double sided drive you can use the one disk version (from A or B) but if you have an external single sided you must insert both disks in drives and you can execute it from B if you want, the only rule is not to have an empty drive when executing the three disks version.

If someone found some other problem, please tell me.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 13:23, 18 January 12
I thought that with USB drives you're out of luck altogether?
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 12:55, 19 January 12
Well, problem is my 3" drive is not working. I had forgotten an old disk in there but I guess becuase it's not working it couldn't see the disk.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: 00WReX on 13:42, 19 January 12
I thought that with USB drives you're out of luck altogether?


writedsk is fine on a USB floppy (because the conversion is done on the CPC). But I think it struggles with the odd dsk. I have actually only not been able to get The Batman demo working with it out of probably a hundred dsk's.
I think I would need to use CPCdiscXP to get this working, but I don't have an IDE floppy, in fact I don't have a desktop PC at all...I ditched them for laptops years ago, so only a USB floppy for me and these don't work with the true low level floppy driver that CPCdiscXP requires.
Not really a big deal, was just wondering if I was missing something as I would like to see the demo on a real CPC.


Writedsk is really good though for anyone with only a USB floppy...

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/WriteDSK (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/WriteDSK)


Cheers,
Shane
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 13:39, 21 January 12
Well, problem is my 3" drive is not working. I had forgotten an old disk in there but I guess becuase it's not working it couldn't see the disk.
How is it not working? What are the symptoms?

The demo tries to read from both drives if they have a disc in them, and decides what discs you have inserted.

btw, when copying to real 3.5" or 3" discs you need to use the special version of cpcdiskxp that is used for orion prime, because the gap length is important on batman forever.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Optimus on 00:52, 24 January 12
How is it not working? What are the symptoms?

The demo tries to read from both drives if they have a disc in them, and decides what discs you have inserted.

btw, when copying to real 3.5" or 3" discs you need to use the special version of cpcdiskxp that is used for orion prime, because the gap length is important on batman forever.


My old 3" drive is not working just because I have left it to oblivion :)
I might just have to change the rubber. I was just bored to at the moment.


I was referring to the explanation from Rhino, that maybe because I didn't have disks to both sides (or really there was a 3" disk inserted but not BF and my drive wouldn't be able to read it anyway) it didn't work. But it worked when I switch the working 3.5" drive to be seen as A.

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 22:23, 03 August 12
Great respect and huge congratulations to Batman Group for winning 3 awards at the 10th scene.org Awards! Also, big congratulations and respect to all the CPC-Wiki guys who helped Batman Group to create the best oldeskool demo of 2011, the most technical demo of 2011 and the public's choice demo of 2011! Top job!

Amstrad Rises!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 13:51, 04 August 12
Quote
Great respect and huge congratulations to Batman Group for winning 3 awards at the 10th scene.org Awards! Also, big congratulations and respect to all the CPC-Wiki guys who helped Batman Group to create the best oldeskool demo of 2011, the most technical demo of 2011 and the public's choice demo of 2011!
I would like to personnally dedicate this victory to the French sceners... er... oh wait... nevermind.
 ;D




Well done España.


Also just a funny thing attached here, extract from Pouët...


lots of prizes with this only Amstrad prod.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 18:12, 04 August 12
God damn that's right. Yeeeeeah!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: TFM on 23:48, 06 August 12
Sadly other CPC productions get ignored. Maybe you have to know Amiga people? Whatever... at least this demo made it.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: rexbeng on 00:33, 07 August 12
I don't think that CPC prods are generally ignored. At least since the release of BF the CPC is getting more attention than usual (the two prods of Benediction in the latest Revision or Optimus' Wolfenstrad for example) and a lot more people kept an eye on the releases of the latest Reset party. Actually, I just counted, the CPC already has 10 notable releases in 2012 posted on pouet.net (and two of those are games), whereas in 2011 there aren't more than 4-5 worthy ones (ok, Batman Forever alone counts for 10 and they haven't included Rtype128 - Fano & Toto, why not post it on pouet? I'm sure it's going to raise quite a few eyebrowses ).


rb
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: arnoldemu on 23:44, 10 August 12
I hope Rhino doesn't mind me posting this link here:

Mode R - CPCWiki - The Ultimate Amstrad CPC Community & Encyclopedia! (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Mode_R)

Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 02:02, 11 August 12
Don't know if he minds but you should add proper categories to this page so it can be accessed easierly.


Quote
Due to interlace effect, some colors are blend very well, and others tremble (typical in interlaced modes)
I guess it is a bit like for the flickerscreen technique...


perhaps a proper colour benchmark should be done in order to table the colours that would mix well and those who gives bad flickers or epylepsy...




This may helps coders and graphic artists willing to use such technics.




Post Edition : here is the video of the Award ceremony, and the Tryumph from Batman Group.


Scene.org awards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uzGjhPPzo8#)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 14:41, 14 August 12
Don't know if he minds but you should add proper categories to this page so it can be accessed easierly.



Scene.org awards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uzGjhPPzo8#)



Categories *and* internal links, actually; people often forget about the wiki organisation, but the fact is that it's almost as important as the content itself.


That said, lovely article, thanks!!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 16:06, 14 August 12
I edited the Page to add a few categories, I also edited the Video modes page in order to add a few "software video modes"...




I would appreciate if someone would correct this part in the video mode page, also sthose "software" video modes would also need a proper page or individual pages I guess...




on Atari 8 bit computers, those software modes arer quite important, you can't do anything correct without them...


On CPC they are not well known I guess.




so i added :


=Mode R : linked to the page.


=Mode5 : couldn't find a page on it yet...


=Flickering screen Mode : not sure of to call them... they would need a decent page too, would be nice if Supersly could do it, as he is one of the main user of those.


As gryzor told, it is important to put links in more page to access to those.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Rhino on 16:13, 11 December 16
Just for curiosity. "Monolito", the commercial TV spot from SANYO ESPAÑA (1989) that was inspiration for the Gotham City 3D demo part.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW62O4t3Hys[/youtube]
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 15:13, 13 December 16
Heh...


1.very cool video
2.very  interesting tidbit about the inspiration
3.the rendition in the demo was very good, after seeing this!
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: MacDeath on 00:05, 02 January 17
that retro-cyber punk mega-corpo feeling...

also nice model.

and the PC with 5"1/4... in 1989...
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ZbyniuR on 15:17, 19 December 17
We waiting and waiting for next demo from Batman Group, meantime I found some parody, but this video contains upsetting scenes and rude behavior not good for kids...

BATMETAL RETURNS  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I53HDr0-Qew

If you like it, you can find more like this on the same channel. ;)
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: ZbyniuR on 15:38, 01 July 18
- What?   New preview?
- No, just Batmetal again. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDea7laHD4E
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: Gryzor on 19:43, 01 July 18
Ah damn, I thought it was a new demo :D
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: FruityFrank on 19:34, 05 December 19
hmm, 2 questions:
just wondering: the demo wont start when my memory-extension is attached to the 6128 in (Doppertin 512k). Is it a known issue?
Is there a way to run the demo in a loop?

many thanks
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: norecess on 15:00, 06 December 19
@FruityFrank (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3485) I can't reply for your Doppertin issue but yes, the demo restarts by itself few seconds after the demo ended.
Title: Re: Batman Forever
Post by: FruityFrank on 16:47, 06 December 19
@FruityFrank (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3485) I can't reply for your Doppertin issue but yes, the demo restarts by itself few seconds after the demo ended.


strange, it won't do so on my maschine ...  :'(