Author Topic: SID Sound Reloaded  (Read 1236 times)

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Offline BSC

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SID Sound Reloaded
« on: 00:14, 14 August 19 »
Hello fellow CPCists!


I did it again. Some SID stuff. Just some early demo (so far, CPC music has only used around 6% of the AYs capacity)



https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane


Greetings :)

Offline Scarlettkitten

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #1 on: 00:21, 14 August 19 »
Nice  8)
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Offline HAL 6128

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #2 on: 00:22, 14 August 19 »
Sounds awesome. ...like the deep base.
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Offline Targhan

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #3 on: 13:17, 14 August 19 »
Interesting! Is it 3-channel SID sample? Did you do that with a more advanced version of your sid software?
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Offline Ast

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #4 on: 14:00, 14 August 19 »
Yes, a new Bsc's song… Happy to ear this one.
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Offline Targhan

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #5 on: 15:36, 14 August 19 »
No, it's not a new song, it's Zap't'Ball loading screen adaptation (by Weee I guess?).
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Offline SuTeKH/Epyteor

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #6 on: 16:53, 14 August 19 »
No, it's not a new song, it's Zap't'Ball loading screen adaptation (by Weee I guess?).
Actually, it's a version of THE LAST HERO by FUTURE FREAK of DEXION!
Also famous as "ARCANE THEME" (by Zetrix) on Amiga cracktros.

Offline HAL 6128

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #7 on: 23:33, 14 August 19 »
Hey BSC, this isn't a SID emulation. You programed that with you SID tracker, right?
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Offline BSC

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #8 on: 12:36, 15 August 19 »
Interesting! Is it 3-channel SID sample? Did you do that with a more advanced version of your sid software?



Thanks! Yes, the engine can play 3 independent "SID" voices at once, each with it's own pitch and waveform and it's indeed an evolution of the AYAY engine.
The working title it AY³ or AYcubed :)

Offline BSC

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #9 on: 12:39, 15 August 19 »
Actually, it's a version of THE LAST HERO by FUTURE FREAK of DEXION!
Also famous as "ARCANE THEME" (by Zetrix) on Amiga cracktros.


Exactly! I only knew it as "Arcane" until a few months ago. The SID version is a conversion from my (not WEEEs) Soundtrakker cover which
was also used in Zap't'Balls. I just found your rendition of The Last Hero on Youtube btw. Really nice!

Offline BSC

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #10 on: 12:41, 15 August 19 »
Hey BSC, this isn't a SID emulation. You programed that with you SID tracker, right?


Kind of. It's actually a more evolved versoin of my SID engine from some years ago. There's still no tracker, though ..
A real SID emulation is impossible on the CPC, but I think I came as close as you can get (maybe even closer in the future  :D )

Offline Sykobee (Briggsy)

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #11 on: 12:56, 15 August 19 »
Nice!


How much CPU time does the emulation take? And what do you mean by 6% of the AY capabilities?

Offline Targhan

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #12 on: 13:07, 15 August 19 »
Quote
Thanks! Yes, the engine can play 3 independent "SID" voices at once, each with it's own pitch and waveform and it's indeed an evolution of the AYAY engine.

Ok so it is like what I did for Imperial Mahjong I guess (which is, in all fairness, is inspired from what you did on your SID tracker!). Are the three channels on three different channels (that's what I do on IM), or do you mix them on one channel?
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Offline BSC

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #13 on: 16:00, 15 August 19 »
How much CPU time does the emulation take? And what do you mean by 6% of the AY capabilities?


It is a really modest engine and takes all of the CPU time. No time left for anything else (a few raster bars or similar maybe)

Offline BSC

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #14 on: 14:23, 25 August 19 »
Ok so it is like what I did for Imperial Mahjong I guess (which is, in all fairness, is inspired from what you did on your SID tracker!). Are the three channels on three different channels (that's what I do on IM), or do you mix them on one channel?

I knew that already ;-)

The three channels are mixed into one, otherwise the replay rate would be too low and the sound would be too harsh.
I am still experimenting with increasing the replay rate. Currently it is around 12 KHz.

Offline BSC

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Re: SID or something?
« Reply #15 on: 14:25, 25 August 19 »
How much CPU time does the emulation take? And what do you mean by 6% of the AY capabilities?

The 6% thing was a pun relating to what Rhino wrote in the Batman Demo, where he stated something similar about CPC Demos :)

Anyway I think there's a lot of room for cool things to do with the PSG...

Offline BSC

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #16 on: 13:51, 30 November 19 »
Here's another preview:


https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane-preview-ii

plus some technical details in the description for those inclined.

Offline HAL 6128

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #17 on: 23:11, 01 December 19 »
Fascinating what the AY is capable of, great sound.
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Offline LambdaMikel

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #18 on: 08:21, 02 December 19 »
Here's another preview:


https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane-preview-ii

plus some technical details in the description for those inclined.
Great achievement! What SID tune is that? It would be interesting to do an "unfair comparison" with a real CPC SID expansion card  ;) (I know it would be unfair, but interesting regardless!)

Offline TotO

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #19 on: 11:01, 02 December 19 »

Really nice BSC!  :)

It would be interesting to do an "unfair comparison" with a real CPC SID expansion card (I know it would be unfair, but interesting regardless!)
Are peoples programming music for CPC do care how it sound on C64 or other computers using a different sound chip? For SID Sound, they know perfectly how it is, because the goal is technicaly to tend to approach it. The same when the AY try to do Amiga tunes on GX/PLUS (Eeries Forest), it is really impressing (the SID can't?) but obviously not as good as Paula. At end, the AY looks to be a versatile circuit to fake others.
« Last Edit: 11:03, 02 December 19 by TotO »
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Offline LambdaMikel

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #20 on: 17:03, 02 December 19 »
Really nice BSC!  :)
Are peoples programming music for CPC do care how it sound on C64 or other computers using a different sound chip? For SID Sound, they know perfectly how it is, because the goal is technicaly to tend to approach it. The same when the AY try to do Amiga tunes on GX/PLUS (Eeries Forest), it is really impressing (the SID can't?) but obviously not as good as Paula. At end, the AY looks to be a versatile circuit to fake others.
Agreed. Yes, as I said, it is an impressive piece of AY programming & wizardry, and hence an impressive achievement, but it does not necessesarily "sound good" (which is of course subjective - which unfortunately applies to most AY-based sample playing IMHO....) Unfortunately, sample playing is the weakest capabiliy of the AY chip, due to its technical limitations (even with DMA). It is better suited for chiptunes IMHO. All subjective of course... But I find it great that people like BSC figure out how to max it out!!! As I said, impressed!

I am wondering though if the same code could also be used to sample play over a Digiblaster or Amdrum or similar? That might give 8bit PCM resolution?
« Last Edit: 17:17, 02 December 19 by LambdaMikel »

Offline BSC

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #21 on: 22:20, 02 December 19 »
Great achievement! What SID tune is that? It would be interesting to do an "unfair comparison" with a real CPC SID expansion card  ;) (I know it would be unfair, but interesting regardless!)

Thanks!

The original SID is called The Last Hero by Future Freak:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvecpmfD17g


My first CPC covers were based on the Amiga version by Zetrix:



https://soundcloud.com/4irmann/zetrix-arcane-theme-the-last-hero-cover-4irmann-remaster




Before you start your unfair comparison I have to finish the tune in Soundtrakker, so that I can
convert it to the AY³ engine. I have been too lazy yet to do that *shrug*

Offline BSC

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #22 on: 22:28, 02 December 19 »



The same when the AY try to do Amiga tunes on GX/PLUS (Eeries Forest), it is really impressing (the SID can't?) but obviously not as good as Paula.
At end, the AY looks to be a versatile circuit to fake others.

The C64/SID can do much better sample replay then the CPC/AY, just have a listen and look at this:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LYrQk5I7s


There's even a description in the description describing how it was done. Channel 3 plays multiple samples
at once, that's effin impressive.






Offline BSC

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Re: SID Sound Reloaded
« Reply #23 on: 22:33, 02 December 19 »
Agreed. Yes, as I said, it is an impressive piece of AY programming & wizardry, and hence an impressive achievement, but it does not necessesarily "sound good" (which is of course subjective - which unfortunately applies to most AY-based sample playing IMHO....) Unfortunately, sample playing is the weakest capabiliy of the AY chip, due to its technical limitations (even with DMA). It is better suited for chiptunes IMHO. All subjective of course... But I find it great that people like BSC figure out how to max it out!!! As I said, impressed!

I am wondering though if the same code could also be used to sample play over a Digiblaster or Amdrum or similar? That might give 8bit PCM resolution?


I might make a Digiblaster version of it some day (though I don't have one). Or anyone else can do it after I released the source.
Playing though the Digiblaster will surely sound a lot better. But I LOVE to make stuff that runs on your ordinary 464 (or,
in very rare cases, a 6128) without any additional hardware, just like it could have done in 1984 :)