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avatar_reidrac

Emulators with 50Hz host support

Started by reidrac, 11:18, 25 June 18

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reidrac

I got a new screen recently that thanks to HDMI 2 I can configure it to refresh at 50Hz, instead of 60Hz.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like emulators are using this, or may be it is my environment (I run few of them on Linux with WINE).

I've tried WinAPE, CPCE, Java CPC and CLK with no apparent improvement. WinCPC seems to do something special, because it plays very smooth, not perfect, but noticeably better than the others.

I still have others to try but I wanted to ask here: does anyone know of any emulator that supports 50Hz on the host system?
Released The Return of Traxtor, Golden Tail, Magica, The Dawn of Kernel, Kitsune`s Curse, Brick Rick and Hyperdrive for the CPC.

If you like my games and want to show some appreciation, you can always buy me a coffee.

roudoudou

Winape runs smoothly at 50hz when Windows display is à TV.
My pronouns are RASM and ACE

Lone

Sugarbox also can sync on VBL, making it smooth on 50hz display (but only on windows atm)

mr_lou

But a 50hz display doesn't help much if the graphics card still outputs 60hz.

reidrac

That's a good tip, actually. I need to check that WINE is doing the right thing regarding vsync when the screen is operating at 50Hz (and I believe this is only possible with the graphic card cooperation).

Knowing that WinAPE supports it then it must be a problem with my local setup.
Released The Return of Traxtor, Golden Tail, Magica, The Dawn of Kernel, Kitsune`s Curse, Brick Rick and Hyperdrive for the CPC.

If you like my games and want to show some appreciation, you can always buy me a coffee.

mr_lou

Recently I had to create an animated ad banner for one of those LED banners on a football field. So I asked about the framerate and was told 60 fps. So I made a video with 60 fps, but it looked terribly chunky - exactly like seeing a 50hz CPC demo on a 60hz PC, except in this case it was the other way around. The computer itself did (of course) output 60hz - but the LED was obviously set differently.


Everything has to match for a good result.
I've always found it strange that no one seem to care about this aspect of the CPC. It matters a lot to me, which is why I still use CRT screens.

roudoudou

Quote from: mr_lou on 12:13, 25 June 18
But a 50hz display doesn't help much if the graphics card still outputs 60hz.


What kind of videocard do you know having such a limitation?

My pronouns are RASM and ACE

ThomH

#7
CLK is synchronised to whatever your refresh rate is, with no attempt to make frames atomic. It has no concept of 60Hz or 50Hz or 144Hz or anything else. But it isn't smart enough to bring itself into phase when the emulated and real rates match, and it'll apply some inter-frame blending regardless (because it isn't smart enough to realise it's in-phase). Improvements are planned.

That being said, a CPC completes one of its standard firmware-style frames every 19968 microseconds. So it's actually running at 50.08Hz. And games and demos may vary a little from that.

So the most proper course of action for an emulator faced with a 50Hz is, in my opinion, to reduce the CPC's speed to around 99.84% of its normal execution and exactly align emulated and real vertical syncs. And hope that people with perfect pitch don't complain about the 0.16% off-key music.
Which is almost certainly more than any existing emulator does?

reidrac

Thanks for the comments. It is certainly something wrong on my setup. Oh, the joys of modern Linux desktop. Could be the composite manager or some other misconfiguration.

I will investigate further.
Released The Return of Traxtor, Golden Tail, Magica, The Dawn of Kernel, Kitsune`s Curse, Brick Rick and Hyperdrive for the CPC.

If you like my games and want to show some appreciation, you can always buy me a coffee.

mr_lou

Quote from: roudoudou on 14:48, 25 June 18What kind of videocard do you know having such a limitation?
I didn't say anything about a limitation. Not sure a wrong setting can be called a limitation.

Windows usually outputs 60hz, and offers no way of changing to 50hz. For this reason watching CPC videos on a PC isn't nearly as enjoyable as watching them on e.g. a Blu-ray.  ;)

But an application can of course change the refresh rate. I don't think it can do so in Window-mode though, so it'll have to be fullscreen. I don't know which CPC emulators offers this; fullscreen and 50hz.

roudoudou

Quote from: mr_lou on 16:04, 25 June 18
I didn't say anything about a limitation. Not sure a wrong setting can be called a limitation.

Windows usually outputs 60hz, and offers no way of changing to 50hz. For this reason watching CPC videos on a PC isn't nearly as enjoyable as watching them on e.g. a Blu-ray.  ;)
Windows offers what your hardware support. With à TV it will set 50hz and 60hz (or more) will magically disappear.
My pronouns are RASM and ACE

mr_lou

Quote from: roudoudou on 16:26, 25 June 18
Windows offers what your hardware support. With à TV it will set 50hz and 60hz (or more) will magically disappear.
I have never seen this with my own eyes. I can only select 60hz on the machines I've seen, and I'm pretty sure the monitors are capable of more.

reidrac

Quote from: mr_lou on 16:31, 25 June 18
I have never seen this with my own eyes. I can only select 60hz on the machines I've seen, and I'm pretty sure the monitors are capable of more.

It depends on the driver, the connector, etc. As I said, I've seen this in modern screens supporting HDMI 2.
Released The Return of Traxtor, Golden Tail, Magica, The Dawn of Kernel, Kitsune`s Curse, Brick Rick and Hyperdrive for the CPC.

If you like my games and want to show some appreciation, you can always buy me a coffee.

reidrac

I run some tests and I think I got CPCE working fine at 50Hz, but WinAPE still refuses to do it. It may be related to WINE I guess.
Released The Return of Traxtor, Golden Tail, Magica, The Dawn of Kernel, Kitsune`s Curse, Brick Rick and Hyperdrive for the CPC.

If you like my games and want to show some appreciation, you can always buy me a coffee.

VincentGR

I used to run 50Hz emulators with custom modes I made back then on my card with tv out.
Looked like the original thing, composite though.

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