Hello Guys. I want to share with you an idea that I have for some time now: can anyone create a CPC 3D shooter? It may sound a bit stupid question but after seeing the BATMAN DEMO I believe that anything is possible now....
Wasn't Wolfenstein 3D done already?
Quote from: mr_lou on 19:05, 21 September 13
Wasn't Wolfenstein 3D done already?
Yes, and there was a second one.
According to what I have seen, Wolfenstein is only a demo, not playable on the CPC
Quote from: Misel982001 on 19:02, 21 September 13It may sound a bit stupid question but after seeing the BATMAN DEMO I believe that anything is possible now....
... but not.
SO?Is anyone working on any 3D shooter? Does anything exist?
I have 3D Space gun for the Plus as HFE file for the HCX Floppy emulator its an ok game not great.
I would imagine Doom for the CPC would need a 6128/6128 Pus to be doable
I got wolf3d working on javacpc and it moves smoothly enough not really pacey though
The Z80 is not really fast enough for 3D, but it might be possible to fill part of a 512K cartridge with look-up tables to use instead of real time 3D calculations.
I have seen anything from you guys. Doing the impossible. Is anyone gonna try to do it?
Quote from: Misel982001 on 16:32, 22 September 13
I have seen anything from you guys. Doing the impossible. Is anyone gonna try to do it?
It's time to Do It Yourself...
Sure!If we ignore the fact that dont know anything about programming.....
..... or writing reviews (Sorry, couldn't resist ;) ).
But back to topic... it's doable on CPC of course, but to generate complete levels and finally a complete game is taking so much time that probable nobody will do it. Or you make a fundraiser for someone who is a well coder and has no job currently.
We got two unfinished games of a doom like kind. What can be done is also shown in Wolfenstad demo (in which however the math is a bit off).
Anything is possible! (if we ignore that it's not)
Quote from: Misel982001 on 18:27, 22 September 13
Sure!If we ignore the fact that dont know anything about programming.....
It's why I said that is time... Many peoples started late for making great CPC things. :)
I think an engine would be workable for an RPG (i.e., a game where screen updates don't have to be instantaneous). The CPC doesn't have the grunt to do all the calculations (even with the use of many look up tables) for a 10fps or higher raycast game even when you cut back loads (e.g., reduced screen size). The wolfenstrad demo is probably as good as it gets.
.... hear the expert talking... :laugh: Well, you must know it ;)
Look at games like Driller, that shows the way. And such games would be much faster when not being forced into 48 KB - instead of using the 128 KB machine!
Yeah, but Driller (Freescape actually) despite having a great wow factor is not really enjoyable any more.
For me it is. :)
I have been palying Narco Police and it looks close to Doom
A very interesting approach to be sure. More of an on-rail shooter though.
Narco Police (Dinamic/Iron Byte) (1990) (Amstrad CPC) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWaj6aphmbM#)
I am still amazed at how smooth Narco Police is even after all this time
What are the two 3D games that are unifinished for the CPC? Can we raise a fundraiser and pay the guy who will do it? Is he one of us here?
Quote from: Misel982001 on 09:28, 24 September 13
What are the two 3D games that are unifinished for the CPC? Can we raise a fundraiser and pay the guy who will do it? Is he one of us here?
Executioner did the Doom game for CPC.
What is the other one you are thinking of? The one I am doing???
Quote from: Misel982001 on 09:28, 24 September 13
Can we raise a fundraiser and pay the guy who will do it? Is he one of us here?
Man, I wished that would have happened back the day when I had no job.
TFM can you do it?We can raise money for you. I'm in!
Graphically - I think the best way to to do this, is by using mode 1 graphics. This would provide space for drawing "zoomed in" frames (in combination with the engine) and leave space for music and sound effects.
The spectrum version of Wolfenstein is wonderfully done:
Wolfenstein 8 bit ZX Spectrum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXw_SF96t0c#noexternalembed)
Edit: Narco Police! Third person shooter?!?! Very interesting indeed!
Quote from: sigh on 14:23, 25 September 13
Graphically - I think the best way to to do this, is by using mode 1 graphics. This would provide space for drawing "zoomed in" frames (in combination with the engine) and leave space for music and sound effects.
Because a "doom like" FPS use zommed pixels, better to start with the Mode 0. You save pixels and win colours...
Sadly, no Mode with 2:2 aspect ratio and 256 colours on CPC. :-\
Well, I guess I have to devote this idea some time.
What's about a game in which you are only in tunnels or small halls. But without "open range"? Or would that be no fun?
Quote from: TFM on 20:15, 25 September 13
What's about a game in which you are only in tunnels or small halls. But without "open range"? Or would that be no fun?
a.k.a. Sultan's Maze.
No, but limited space left and right, and forward. Else 25 fps will be a problem. And yes, it's all precalculated. And why not, if you store a sprite in RAM it's 'precalculated' too, because you don't draw it using comands like CIRCLE, DRAW, MOVE.
Quote from: TFM on 22:52, 25 September 13
No, but limited space left and right, and forward. Else 25 fps will be a problem. And yes, it's all precalculated. And why not, if you store a sprite in RAM it's 'precalculated' too, because you don't draw it using comands like CIRCLE, DRAW, MOVE.
Yeah, but you don't have separate drawing routines for a sprite at 0,0; 1,0; 2,0; ... 159,199 either!
Well TFM you should try it. I think that after SFII, the Batman Demo and ORION PRIME anything can happen. Will you start it?And we may raise the fundraiser.
Quote from: ralferoo on 22:11, 25 September 13
a.k.a. Sultan's Maze.
Why does everyone hate this game so much? Sure its a little slow but its not a bad game really. Nowhere near as bad as a lot of the crap released early on.
Quote from: EgoTrip on 17:58, 26 September 13Why does everyone hate this game so much? Sure its a little slow but its not a bad game really. Nowhere near as bad as a lot of the crap released early on.
You probably won't believe this, but ever since watching the Amstrad Welcoming Demo tape as a kid, I've been curious about Sultan's Maze - and yet to this day I still haven't tried it.
Quote from: mr_lou on 18:34, 26 September 13
You probably won't believe this, but ever since watching the Amstrad Welcoming Demo tape as a kid, I've been curious about Sultan's Maze - and yet to this day I still haven't tried it.
Give it a go. Its a maze game, you have to collect jewels and avoid the ghost. Its just the slow maze drawing that puts people off I think, if you can live with that then its quite absorbing. Sure much better variants have been released since but when you consider it was one of the original titles for the CPC, and written in BASIC, it was a pretty good game.
Quote from: Misel982001 on 17:54, 26 September 13
Well TFM you should try it. I think that after SFII, the Batman Demo and ORION PRIME anything can happen. Will you start it?And we may raise the fundraiser.
Ok, I put it into my games list at place 3 (after finishing Cyber Huhn and Giana Sisters, both will not take tooooo long). Instead of a fundraiser I only need a timeraiser ;)
Quote from: EgoTrip on 17:58, 26 September 13
Why does everyone hate this game so much? Sure its a little slow but its not a bad game really. Nowhere near as bad as a lot of the crap released early on.
I don't hate it, I played it for many hours as a kid.
'Sultan's Maze'-- It's amazing to think how different things appeal to different folks, I personally think it is pretty dreadful even allowing for it's D.O.B. and it's slow draw speed. The concept is lacking imo .
Not many people know the game Eidolon in 1986.
Amstrad : The Eidolon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXB7XG9yEU#)
For me is a very primitive Doom engine.
I loved the Eidolon and Koronis rift
I didnt know about this game.....
Ok then......TFM if you need any help, you know were to find me.....
Very well appreciated :)
Quote from: fgbrain on 09:37, 29 September 13
Not many people know the game Eidolon in 1986.
Amstrad : The Eidolon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXB7XG9yEU#)
For me is a very primitive Doom engine.
Well, I really would NOT say primitive!
...it's not primitive but in a simple way clever. It's fractal, calculated, dotted Points, no vectors.
LucasArts - The Early Years (Part 2 of 12) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0DT-QcfpjE#)
Eidolon Engine for RPG? - Atari 8-Bit Computers - AtariAge Forums (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/107675-eidolon-engine-for-rpg/)
The closest possible to represent Doom (levels, secrets, sound, everything) on an 8bit is Doom Vic 20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUVPT6edIpc#noexternalembed) which was quite impressive and entertaining to me. With non-90 degree walls, but same floor/ceiling height, they tried to represent as crudely as they can the original levels of doom. There are even the secrets at the same places. And the sound fx are from PC speaker version :)
I always wondered about Eidolon and Koronis Rift. It's quite unusual kind of rendering, I like alternative rendering techniques. It's like true voxel landscape or cave. I always wondered how it works. I think now, it just draws those dots trying to covering every X but has gaps on Y, because later on my guess is a XOR-like fill technique (like on C64, if you search for EOR filling), that with this configuration it fills the solid parts with a single color easily.
I wish I could find the motivation and a time frame actually to continue with that wolfenstein engine and only focus on this. This is always in the back of my mind, I just need to start when I decide to start. I don't need monetary compensation or anything btw. I prefer to start when I feel like motivated and ready. I guess other people can work on their own versions of 3d engines too. It's good to see some other attempts and be impressed and motivated about it.
If it can be done on a Vic 20 and a spectrum surely it is possible on a CPC
I am amazed that a Vic 20 can pull off such a feat !!
Anyway guys, instead of trying a "Doom Clone" why not a proper Xybot remake ??? :P
(http://www.grospixels.com/site/images/xybots/xybots0030.png)
The dramatic part is that the Amstrad CPC version, despite looking like a cheap speccy port, is actually one of the best 8bit computer version, because it has (sort of) colours...
Such game's engine, if properly redone, could unleash the fury of the FPS on CPC.
Gryzor had its moments as well...
A good crossbreed between Gryzor (corridor's parts), Xybot and Cabal could really kick asses... and no side-scroolings to screew with.
Could even manage a modern network perhaps ?
Xybots - Arcade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgGfXF0Id6U#ws)
Excellent idea! It's half a decent game ! And as I said in other thread have a look at the controls...
Loved that You Tube clip , it made me realise how much I really enjoy the game more than I used too , The music works great. And the Amstrad port is pretty well done. I haven't seen what the C64's version was like , so I am going to have a look about for it.
Oh and you have to sort the guys walking out. At the moment he minces like Larry Grayson!
QuoteI haven't seen what the C64's version was like
it is actually a speccy port (sort of) a bit like head over hells...
The sprites were to limited to be well used, and the perspective (like isometric) doesn't like attributes.
This and the fact they tried hard to do a cheap port so they re-used the same graphics for all those versions.
So yeah, speccy port on c64... feels good man.
as a result, the CPC and its 4 colour mode could manage to get things with different colours (no clashes) yet in "1bpp".
:D
yeah, 1bpp graphics + 1bpp masks... like black tiger indeed and many others, so no wonder a 128K version could do great with native 4bpp graphics in mode0... ;) and 128x156 screen, and no split screen then, and multiplayer with network. shit would be so cash.
I posted that in another old thread :
Xybots.
Speccy :
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/482139-xybots-zx-spectrum-screenshot-both-together-now-there-s-a.png)
C64 :
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/79183-xybots-commodore-64-screenshot-yikes-watch-out-for-that-xybot.gif)
MSX1 :
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/445661-xybots-msx-screenshot-playing-the-game-with-2-players-s.png)
CPC :
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/445885-xybots-amstrad-cpc-screenshot-playing-with-two-players-s.png)
Amstrad version while still quite "bad" is actually the best 8bit computer version because it had different colours for sprites and tiles, thx to the no-attributes system.
Just get the sprites to use more than 2 colours only (colour+transparency) and you may be good for a decent go.
Worst Ever Amstrad CPC Games (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/worst-ever-amstrad-cpc-games/90/)
Anyway, imagine this engine as a 1 player only (bigger), it could make for nice survival horror or doom/Halflife/tombraider/and so on sort of erzatz.
of course as so usual with CPC, would be sort of flip-screen scroll instead of continuous player character centered smooth 1pixel 50hz one. ;D
Not as bad as Green berets or gryzor, lol...
Man that thread has some weird selections for worst games on the Amstrad! Commando?? That is a superb game on the CPC , well not superb but great fun. Anyway this is way off topic so . XYbots,In 2player mode would be great with decent controls and tarted up visuals.