CPC Games & Demos Developers Fund

[cpc4eva]

While i have been putting the CPC MAG 2016 together, getting interviews from some great people who are coding and developing some very cool CPC games and demos, it has struck me, is there a CPC games and developers fund ?

my personal opinion says these guys coding and developing cpc games and demos should have some sort of motivation and incentives to pump out CPC stuff on a more regular basis and they should receive some sort of reward for their continued efforts.

its not just for the regular people but also may help to support new up and comers in coding and developing cpc games and demos.


i am prepared to put my own money into this project and or idea say between $500 and $1000 aussie dollars annually towards such a fund but lets not be foolish i wont be sending any monies to anyone just yet there has to be fair dinkum trust and honesty in handing over any monies and i would expect others would feel the same about handing over any monies or donations.



also many questions have to be asked and discussed and everyone in the cpc community thoughts and input on this idea is welcomed.


how would the cpc developers fund work ?

who would receive the monies and for what reasons ?

how would monies be kept for security reasons obviously and a fair payout received ?

are monies distributed to developers after official releases ?

how much money would developers receive ?

what would be their share of the fund ?

is monies distributed after each release or on an annual basis ?

what would be a minimum amount that would be acceptable as a donation put forward by members of the cpc community ?

who would be the administrators of such a project / fund ?

What sort of games or demos receive any funding ?  would it be based on a poll of votes from the cpc community like in eurovision format or some sort of other requirements ?


lets discuss this and get an idea of people's feelings and thoughts about this

cheers

[arnoldemu]

I think the problem is always finding time to make these things more regularly especially considering day jobs and family commitments - I think those will always come first. Some jobs also require overtime which takes away from the time.

In terms of payment, it could follow the common game development model where payment is made after specific goals are done and verified. The specific goals are set per milestone, which is normally monthly, but for something like this the frequency could be reduced. There is also a lot in the planning to make sure the goals are achievable and agreed by both developer and the person who pays the money, they need to be measurable in some way which is fair.

I think the problem is how to use the money effectively so it's channeled to games/demos that are completed rather than used on many tech demos.

Game development competitions do a good job of pushing more releases - they've got a goal and a prize - true it means smaller games but that's not always that bad.

The availability of resources and libraries such as cpctelera also help a lot because it takes less time because the game engine is partially done.

What does help is ensuring that the appropiate tools are there, are easy to use and have tutorials - the development time should be concentrated on the game and much less on tools and toolchain.

I also think that projects could be reviewed before starting, this makes sure they are possible to complete and possible in a timescale that is not too long.

I think what would be good to see is either a game development diary with source and seeing how it's built up, that would help people who want to have a go to see how it all fits. Almost like a step-by-step game development on CPC which others could follow. People who are new to CPC can see how to start to develop for it, and they can see the tools in action and how games are made.

When I've developed some games, a lot of time was spent on making the toolchain, making the game engine (drawing sprites etc), then the next biggest thing was fixing all the bugs at the end.

So whatever makes all this easier will make sure development of the fun bit - the actual game - would be a lot easier.

[keith56]

I agree that it would be nice to encourage developers to produce for the CPC - I would like to see more 'development competition' type events to encourage beginner and less experienced developers to produce for the system - I'd be willing to contribute towards any such prize fund too.

I don't know about the Speccy, but In my opinion Winape already makes developing for the CPC far easier than the MSX, and CPC wiki has the most comprehensive documentation and code samples I could imagine - but the CPC seems to be still less popular in the public mind than the other systems (Look at the rabid excitement about that 'new' Spectrum kickstarter)- I don't know why that is, or if anything can be done about it to make the CPC more popular as a retro system compared to the other 8 bits.

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally my game development would not be motivated by money, but by the response to my work.

I've said it before, but IMHO it's imprerive that beginners feel their efforts will be well recieved and 'rewarded' (by good feedback) - even if they are not of 'professional standards' - that will bring, and keep newcomers to the CPC community - it should be all about producing something you're proud of, not if your game has the best sound/graphics/gameplay.

[EgoTrip]

I agree that it would be nice to encourage developers to produce for the CPC - I would like to see more 'development competition' type events to encourage beginner and less experienced developers to produce for the system - I'd be willing to contribute towards any such prize fund too.

Competitions wont help beginners and less experienced developers. The more experienced (and connected) people will always win those competitions, and unless they have exceptional talent, how are they going to catch up with and overtake those who know how to produce technically good, professional looking games (even if they lack in the gameplay department). It could get discouraging for them if they think they are in with a chance but really are not.

[EgoTrip]

I think the problem is how to use the money effectively so it's channeled to games/demos that are completed rather than used on many tech demos.

Perhaps there should be a panel of people who are respected in the scene, such as yourself, Gryzor, and someone else.

At the end of a period of time, say three months (which would probably increase frrequency of releases) they will review the productions released in that time period and split up the fund accordingly amongst them any eay they see fit. It would have to be all transparent of course, so maybe the deliberation would be done live on YouTube or Twitch (is there a hangout on Twitch?) or something (which would also be a good way to showcase the productions too).

Also, I think that while everyone regardless of experience should be eligible to a payout, priority should be for beginners and less experienced coders to give them incentive to continue and to improve. It wouldn't be right if experienced coders pumped out game after game to get a piece of the pie and ended up taking more and more of it.

One other thing, there should be a cap on how much someone can get per production, for example say one person releases a game in one period, they should not get the entire pot for that period. The rest of the money should roll over, as there will inevitably be periods with a lot of entries, and quiet periods with few.

[AMSDOS]

$1000 that's about 600 Euro's, just to see @Gryzor reaction to receive that amount of money for the Wiki is reward enough 

An amateur programmer like myself doesn't need much incentive to write a program, ideas are good for programs and being able to write it in a different language (provided you know the language) can be fun as well. The game I wrote last year took me 4-5 months, though it's so blistering fast I've only gone back and played it a couple of times  This year I've knocked up 5 BASIC 10-Liners for their Compo and just getting the results for those programs was interesting given I hadn't done that before.

[Gryzor]

This is a bit of uncharted territory...


Supposedly a panel could hudge whether a title/progress is worth some reward; cue uneasiness and people taking sides, with the developer bemoaning the partiality of the system.


Or everyone could judge and vote. But this would mean everyone participating in some capacity in the development.


But judging milestones etc... that a whole mess. We're talking about a decentralised project management scheme here, are we're just a bunch of dudes, not a publishing company.


Or we could do a sort of Kickstarter to get a project started, but I can't imagine a coder willing to undergo the pressures of commitment to bring a title to fruition.


I'd be willing to pay money - and I constantly do, trying to buy every new release that comes out in physical form. But I think the 'incentive' scheme is very hard to manage...

[Gryzor]

Btw, @AMSDOS , the CPCWiki exists precisely to help such projects, so I'm fine and even happy with someone making serious money on it (if that could ever happen!)

[mr_lou]

For me, it's not about incentive, but rather about having the time.

I'd love to make another CPC game. In fact, I've had an idea for one for ages. I just don't have the time. Job and family....  grown-up life.

I imagine this scenario though:

A CPC coder who doesn't have a job due to various reasons. It would make sense that he would make money from doing CPC games. Why not?
I'm not sure a dedicated fund would work though. But the CPC community definitely ought to step up and pay this coder for his work somehow.
Imagine having full-time CPC coders working to make new games for us.  That's of course a fantasy, but let me have it.

But the formula is rather simple: Whenever someone makes anything CPC related - pay for it. Support it.

[andycadley]

Speaking personally, money is not really going to make a difference, it's finding time that is the tricky thing. Particularly because, after coding all day at work, getting motivated to do it in the evenings or weekends is not necessarily easy. I definitely do more when I've got some time off and can feel a bit more free and in the mood. Encouragement and support of projects in the community, and providing assistance where possible, is probably a more proactive approach.

[||C|-|E||]

In my case it is all about the time... I mean, the amount of money I would be winning with an Amstrad game (even if there is people crazy enough to actively fund a production of mine)  would be really insignificant compared to the amount I could earn making a game from any other current platform if things go well . However, if I had the time, I would be surely coding something new for the CPC from time to time and completely for free, just because I love the platform. Sadly, I reckon that in case I wanted to make a living with videogames I would need to move to something for PC, Apple, PS4, Xbox... more like a real indie production, as Axiom Verge, for example . In this regard, I also find the support from the community to be really important, much much more than the actual cash.

[AMSDOS]

In my case it is all about the time... I mean, the amount of money I would be winning with an Amstrad game (even if there is people crazy enough to actively fund a production of mine)  would be really insignificant compared to the amount I could earn making a game from any other current platform if things go well . However, if I had the time, I would be surely coding something new for the CPC from time to time and completely for free, just because I love the platform. Sadly, I reckon that in case I wanted to make a living with videogames I would need to move to something for PC, Apple, PS4, Xbox... more like a real indie production, as Axiom Verge, for example . In this regard, I also find the support from the community to be really important, much much more than the actual cash.

  Is likely to be illegal to be suggesting setting up a Lottery Syndicate for the Community, but I wonder if the Community struck it rich that could be used to fund any kind of project as long as it's legit.

[Targhan]

I think this wouldn't work. As an example, Orion Prime took 4 years of work for two people. Can the community pay for such amount of cash, maybe for a game that will not please everybody, or simply will fail?
Plus imagine the developer when given cash from people he barely knows. What kind of pressure must he feel? CPC development is a passion, but when money enters the game, it won't be a passion anymore. What if he decides to stop the project? He won't be able to pay the money back. He's doomed to go crazy for a CPC game.


The closest we can get is a competition like the one by Cpctelera, or create a Kickstarter project.

[jbaudrand]

Targhan is right...