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General Category => Games => Topic started by: sigh on 16:48, 23 April 12

Title: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 16:48, 23 April 12
Hi guys,

Could someone list me some games that has 1 pixel scrolling in both directions please? (Games like Dynamite Dux and Skate Crazy look as though they moves 2 pixels horizontally and vertically...?)

If there is already a thread on this that I missed on the search, then I do apologise.

Thanks!

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Edit: Transfered the football gameplay mock up from page 5 to this front page in case anybody misses it. Please refer to page 5 for the details and explanation of the game.



Gameplay mock ups.


(http://i.imgur.com/3WSLf.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/3WSLf.gif)


(http://i.imgur.com/EPUp5.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/EPUp5.gif)

Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 23:52, 23 April 12
Hi guys,

Could someone list me some games that has 1 pixel scrolling in both directions please? (Games like Dynamite Dux and Skate Crazy look as though they moves 2 pixels horizontally and vertically...?)

If there is already a thread on this that I missed on the search, then I do apologise.

Thanks!
On Amstrad Plus, with it's hardware pixel scrolling, I would say probably Epyx World of Sports. Perhaps Robocop 2 and Navy Seals (but I didn't actually check these). Pixel by pixel scrolling is much easier here with it's hardware assistance.

On CPC, moving a screen at the rate of 1 pixel horizontally takes a lot of cpu time, because it's more than copying bytes, it's manipulating them, or it's storing pre-shifted tiles and drawing those.

2 pixels for mode 0 is normal, 4 pixels for mode 1 and 8 pixels for mode 2 because each occupy 1 byte and you can use the cpu to copy bytes - it still takes a lot of cpu time doing just this.

Moving using the hardware it's even more pixels (4 pixels for mode 0, 8 pixels for mode 1, 16 pixels for mode 2 - without the R3 trick, otherwise it's half those). This takes less time because you can update a column or row at a time. To scroll pixel by pixel you would need 2 screens in mode 0 if you used the r3 trick, each is offset by a pixel, and the screen would need to keep moving..

A few games move the screen vertically pixel by pixel (Axys, Mission Genocide), because this is much easier with hardware, but this is single direction and doesn't fulfill your criteria.

In terms of pixel by pixel horizontally, R-type (original) and Lemmings may do it.
But I'm not sure in both directions, perhaps H.A.T.E? Or is the aspect ratio setup so byte by byte horizontally and 1 line vertically?
Back to the Future 2 may do it in both directions, but the play area is a bit small and the gfx "tear" when moving.

Sorry I can't tell you of an example, I'm not sure that many exist, perhaps 10 or so???


Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 04:35, 24 April 12
Once I did a game with 48 KB screen RAM fullscreen MODE 0 pixel-wise scrolling. Nice on a emulator with 300%, not really nice in real speed though. Can't find the dsk now...
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TotO on 10:31, 24 April 12
R-type (original) and Lemmings may do it.
R-Type 128K do 1 pixel scrolling too.

After, it's not difficult to scroll on both directions; It's more a gameplay restriction than a technical limitation.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 13:58, 24 April 12
Thanks guys.

Having to use 32K for 1 pixel horizontal scrolling, would it need more KB to achieve the "vertical" scrolling too as they are both using different techniques to achieve smooth scrolling? Or is it just not feasible to create an engine that combines the scrollings of Star Sabre and Mission Genocide in one little neat package?

I just looked at H.A.T.E on youtube (isometric), but as it's using mode 1 graphics, I suspect that it moves in bigger pixel steps.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:08, 24 April 12
Thanks guys.

Having to use 32K for 1 pixel horizontal scrolling, would it need more KB to achieve the "vertical" scrolling too as they are both using different techniques to achieve smooth scrolling? Or is it just not feasible to create an engine that combines the scrollings of Star Sabre and Mission Genocide in one little neat package?

I just looked at H.A.T.E on youtube (isometric), but as it's using mode 1 graphics, I suspect that it moves in bigger pixel steps.
vertical scrolling is done a different way and it doesn't need any extra ram to do it.
it's also compatible with all monitors and tvs.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Xyphoe on 02:31, 30 April 12
Killer Cobra has 1px horizontal scrolling, but not vertical too I'm afraid. Well, I'm fairly sure of that.

Smash TV uses a CRTC trick to warp between rooms in horizontal and vertical at 1px but is not used 'in game' so to speak.



Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Executioner on 02:37, 30 April 12
Killer Cobra has 1px horizontal scrolling, but not vertical too I'm afraid. Well, I'm fairly sure of that.

I thought Killer Cobra was doing at best one byte (2 pixel) scrolling. I think it's actually about 4 times faster scrolling than Scramble which would make it very hard in the maze section (not that I ever got very far in KC).
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: ivarf on 02:49, 30 April 12
TLL has extremly fast scrolling in both directions. 4 pixel scrolling or perhaps 8 pixel? I remember being utterly amazed the first time I played it
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 14:44, 30 April 12
Thanks for the info guys.


So, due to the lack of examples and most probably being a programmers nightmare - is 1 pixel scrolling in both directions just not viable for games on the CPC? (not PLUS)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TotO on 14:48, 30 April 12
It's not because it was never done in a game than it was not viable.
I'm sure that games with one pixel multidirectional scrolling will be done if the gameplay need that.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: MacDeath on 15:37, 30 April 12
Depends what "pixel" you're talking about.
The R-Type scrolling is "one pixel" in mode0, which is still 4 pixels in mode2. :laugh:

wasn't C64 able to scroll at "fine pixels" with large pixels ?


anyway having such fine Multiscroll may give a shitty framerate to a game too.

IMO some games where screwed because they had useless multiscrolling.

examples ?

Copter 271... (GX4000)
it is a vertical shooter, but they added some side scrolling, which is nice on Amiga but but not that good on the GX4000... would have prefered a good game with only vertical.

Final fight.
yeay... there is a vertical scrolling, which is quite useless IMO.the aim was so the big and large sprites wouldn't feel too big on a small game window... and we must remember that this game share the same engine as the Speccy...
but on CPC it is just a waste IMO.
all it would have needed was to have a larger game window (like... 128x256... vertical full screen, like Arkanoid) and there you are, no need to scroll (which add some wheight to the CPU, probably).

 So many multiscrolling games were guite rendered unplayable beause they had this multiscroll but the screen is so small that each time you move the scrolling is used uselessly.

Another example ?

Strider...
yeay, another speccy port.
having a bigger screen (again, 256x256) would be good as the vertical scrolling wouldn't be used each fucking time you jump...

Typicall from those speccy Arcade convertions.
they try to get the sprites almost as on the "320x224" arcade (sort of) or the same as on Atari ST...
but the 256x192 display is even largely reduced because of the HUD (score window)...
into a 208x128...


ok it was a mean to reduce the amount of stuff you had to animate or refresh, which is good on an Atari ST...
but as it just do more scrollings effects... not even sure it is better for the CPU.

because the actual game screen is so small that each time you jump, the scroll goes up then down.


Well, Strider was screwed anyway because it is too much traight speccy, the backgreound in 1bit pex pixels has to be translated into 2bpp as they are used (for the background only, sprites are in proper 2bpp because they are masked graphics on speccy, they were properly ported)


So my point is, multiscoll can be used, but it has to be cleverly use... and actually usefull.
and must not be used to make up for some faulty engine choices, which may not help at all.

Another better exemple : Ghost and goblins.

Not really 1 pixel scrolling (well... fast scrolling but quite smooth anyway).
some levels have vertical and horizontal scrolling.
Yet it is helped by the fact the screen is in proper "320x200" (160x200...mode0) and the sprites are not too big (well, they are normal) so the scrolling doesn't start too often.
Level design also help this (while it screw it on strider)


Titan by titus (French)...
it had an impressive multiscrolling, but not that smooth, quite fast anyway.
And it was in 128x256 too... ;D

Titan for Amstrad CPC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKnxwphUg2w#)

Mister Heli had a cool multiscrolling too.
[AMSTRAD CPC] Mr. Heli (Battle Chopper) - Review & Longplay (no life lost) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkcPEEQYKNs#)
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 16:09, 30 April 12
Depends what "pixel" you're talking about.
The R-Type scrolling is "one pixel" in mode0, which is still 4 pixels in mode2. :laugh:

wasn't C64 able to scroll at "fine pixels" with large pixels ?


anyway having such fine Multiscroll may give a shitty framerate to a game too.

IMO some games where screwed because they had useless multiscrolling.

examples ?

Copter 271... (GX4000)
it is a vertical shooter, but they added some side scrolling, which is nice on Amiga but but not that good on the GX4000... would have prefered a good game with only vertical.

Final fight.
yeay... there is a vertical scrolling, which is quite useless IMO.the aim was so the big and large sprites wouldn't feel too big on a small game window... and we must remember that this game share the same engine as the Speccy...
but on CPC it is just a waste IMO.
all it would have needed was to have a larger game window (like... 128x256... vertical full screen, like Arkanoid) and there you are, no need to scroll (which add some wheight to the CPU, probably).

 So many multiscrolling games were guite rendered unplayable beause they had this multiscroll but the screen is so small that each time you move the scrolling is used uselessly.
Yet it is helped by the fact the screen is in proper "320x200" (160x200...mode0) and the sprites are not too big (well, they are normal) so the scrolling doesn't start too often.
Level design also help this (while it screw it on strider)

Okay - so for instance, some mode 0 16x16 sprites on a background of 320 x 200 would work well with multi directional scrolling? But bigger sprites such as 64x64 wouldn't really cut it?

Would the frame rate on a 16x16 sprite on 320x200 still be shitty?
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: MacDeath on 16:24, 30 April 12
I don't know.

Depends when the scrolling is activated.

if it is persistant/permanent scrolling : your sprite is always on the middle of the screen.
 this is far heavier anyway.

while commodore/amiga games often had this because of awesome hardware, the software machines had the scrolling often activated when you reach the border or the screen (aor a bit before if done well)

There compare...
Blues brothers on Amiga : permanent scrolling : the hero is always on the center of the screen (as in many console games)
Amiga - The Blues Brothers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycFHaKecq0s#)

but on MS-Dos PC, where scrolling is software, it is more like what was often done on the Amstrad CPC... "smooth flip screen scrolling".
DOS - The Blues Brothers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtd-GH4-TbQ#)

CPC version... not scrolling, real flip screens... Gryzor style.
[AMSTRAD CPC] Blues Brothers - Review & Longplay (Part 1 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DOj-Ta3Ek4#)
you actually have all the "doing it wrong" aspects...
small screen, badly used Mode1... (wrong choices of blues, not enough contrast)
and... because the screens are too small, the flip screen is just plain pain in the @$$hole.
Only "good point" is you don't have a larger than screen HUD (scores) zone... oh wait, the game is still in 256x144... which is even worse...
damn 64k version, you ruined my life !!!

Many consolefags or Commodorks argue that permanent smooth hard scrolling is best...
But IMO a properly well done flip screen scrolling is not that shitty, I even prefer it...
(because I had a CPC then a PC...lol)

The main point is that it have to be well managed.
Flipscreen scrolling need the screen to be large, the sprite not too big (question of proportion) and must activate a bit before you reach the border so you are sure there won't be some enemies appearing "on you", and you must be able to actually move while it scrolls...

unlike what was done on greenberets on CPC, which is the worst exemple of faulty flipscreen scrolling.

Green Beret Amstrad cpc (Missile-Harbor) 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb4RFt0AJGk#)
flip screen smooth scrolling that is :
=slow
=can't move shit while scrolling.
good point : it doesn't activate on "border contact"

Compare with Ghost and goblin :
[Amstrad Cpc] Ghost 'N Goblins Longplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgufriFkri4#)

Faster scrolling sequences, and you still move and shoot, the game is not paused = playable !

"flip screen scrolling":  is it the adequat wording ???

Flip Screen Scrolling - Television Tropes & Idioms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlipScreenScrolling)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: fgbrain on 19:11, 30 April 12
For old generation CPC, I believe the smoothest scroll in 8 directions is in a PD game called "Burning Wheels" by T. M. SCHMIDT :

http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635)

Almost impossible for me to play  :'( ...
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TMR on 20:06, 30 April 12
wasn't C64 able to scroll at "fine pixels" with large pixels ?

Yes, the C64 never really leaves 320x200 mode so the hardware smooth scroll and sprite co-ordinates constantly work at that resolution. The same is true of the C16 (and it's sisters) and the C128's 640x200 column display can be hardware scrolled in single pixels too.

i could well be wrong and it's probably been about a year since i last played it properly, but i was under the impression that Killer Cobra was moving at four mode 0 pixels a frame...? (i've always rather liked it in fact, ever since someone pointed it out to me at the Retro Gamer forums.)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 02:09, 01 May 12
I just tried Mr Heli (great game!) and it's not really a multidirectional scroll in the true sense, as it will either scroll across or down, but not both at the same time. (diagonal movement)

Also tried dynamite dux and it has a quick horizontal scroll of 2 pixels, and a slower vertical scroll also at 2 pixels. When pressing up and across (diagonal) the scroll speed seems somewhere inbetween.

Then...I tried "Burning Wheels" and it looks like it has a 1 pixel scroll in both directions BUT, when performing both at the same time (diagonal) the screen shudders violently! This is evident when your playing track 1. Anyone know why this could be happening, or could it just be due to me using an emulator (winape)?


Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: ervin on 02:28, 01 May 12
i could well be wrong and it's probably been about a year since i last played it properly, but i was under the impression that Killer Cobra was moving at four mode 0 pixels a frame...? (i've always rather liked it in fact, ever since someone pointed it out to me at the Retro Gamer forums.)

It looks as though KC actually scrolls at 2 mode pixels per frame, BUT it also appears to be double-buffered.

I'm not an expert on these things, but I believe that means it can scroll each "screen" using hardware scrolling (i.e. 4 mode 0 pixels per frame), and flip between them. One would be offset by 2 mode 0 pixels from the other, and therefore the scrolling appears to be 2 mode 0 pix per frame.

I don't think its speed and smoothness would be possible otherwise, unless some really clever adaptile tile refresh techniques were being employed.

It's actually a REALLY playable game if slowed down to 50%!
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: MacDeath on 02:46, 01 May 12
Pacmania has some oblique/diagonal scrolling and horizontal one.

the game seems a bit slowlier during the "vertical on... which is a bit normal, in order to give some perspactive effect, but also perhaps because the framerate must gets hurt to perform it... (alongside many speccy format translations, and fucking useless rasters, and so on...)

Pacmania per Amstrad CPC by Ataru'75 [020] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z3T4OGir2I#)

and if I recal well, the sprites are in 1bit per pixel with and additional 1bpp mask... what ?
yet still in the same colour as the background ?

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fucking speccy, you ruined my life !!!!!!!!

 ;D



A funny detail too is that the Sega Master system actually had a specific Diagonal scrolling...
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 13:24, 01 May 12
Just had a look at Skate Crazy again and like dynamite dux, it's also a 2 pixel scroll in both directions and also has a similar movement in regards to diagonals like Dynamite Dux.

I find "Burning Wheels" very interesting in regards to scrolling, but with the shakey diagonals - I wonder if used on a proper CPC monitor, that the diagonals wouldn't have that problem?
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Axelay on 13:56, 01 May 12
It looks as though KC actually scrolls at 2 mode pixels per frame, BUT it also appears to be double-buffered.

I'm not an expert on these things, but I believe that means it can scroll each "screen" using hardware scrolling (i.e. 4 mode 0 pixels per frame), and flip between them. One would be offset by 2 mode 0 pixels from the other, and therefore the scrolling appears to be 2 mode 0 pix per frame.

I don't think its speed and smoothness would be possible otherwise, unless some really clever adaptile tile refresh techniques were being employed.

It's actually a REALLY playable game if slowed down to 50%!


Killer Cobra is a single screen (at &c000, you can use Winape's graphics finder to see this) and uses R3 scrolling to achieve a byte width, or 2 mode 0 pixel step scroll.  You can use Winape's Debug->Registers option to see R3 swap between &5 and &E.


The 50fps it runs at doesn't look that 'complex' to me though, and I'm not trying to say it's not clever - I haven't looked at the code, but there are not that many sprites on screen at once (as far as I have got) and even fewer of them actually move.  Potentially the static targets may not even be updated other than when they are destroyed, and the sprites that do move are all moving over blank background, enabling fast sprite code.  The only time I see sprites move over background is when the player explodes, and at this time the scrolling has stopped and the missiles in motion seem to disappear or halt, so however it handles that explosion, it's gained a lot of spare CPU time.  Then there's the status bar which is part of the scrolling screen - the score and lives disappear before the scrolling starts, and the fuel indicator is just a series of lines, so probably only the beginning and end of the lines are being 'maintained', especially as when you gain fuel, rather than instantly jump up to the new level you can see the gauge quickly refills a little each frame.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 17:54, 01 May 12
For old generation CPC, I believe the smoothest scroll in 8 directions is in a PD game called "Burning Wheels" by T. M. SCHMIDT :

http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635)

Almost impossible for me to play  :'( ...

Really impossible to play, but I guess it's two MODE 0 pixel scrolling.
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 18:26, 01 May 12

Really impossible to play, but I guess it's two MODE 0 pixel scrolling.
 

Really? I managed to survive on track 2 for 1 minute and 36 seconds and it had a Mission Genocide/Star Sabre quality scroll to it. However - it is a really fast game, so probably a 1 pixel scroll would be unecessary?

I did notice that when you start the racing, it scrolls in bigger chunks when the car is accelerating and then smoothens out when the car hits top speed.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 21:25, 01 May 12
You're a good gamer! ;D
 
Well, it's too quick for 1 pixel scroll.
 
A good means to assess games it to use WinApe at very low speed, so you can see the pixels moving. (And yes, I can! 8) )
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 21:58, 01 May 12
Ok, I don't lack the answer any longer...
 
Yes, CPC has one game using 1 pel (abbrv. for pixel) scroll. It's Side Arms:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1933 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1933)
 
Tada  :laugh:
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 22:43, 01 May 12
Ok, I don't lack the answer any longer...
 
Yes, CPC has one game using 1 pel (abbrv. for pixel) scroll. It's Side Arms:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1933 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1933)
 
Tada  :laugh:

Heh heh!! No it's not! It's not multi directional either:)

I looked at a bunch of mutli directional scrolling on Xyphoes A-Z of football games - but they were choppy.
So far the best multi directional scrolling I have seen is Dynamite Dux and Skate Crazy.

Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 03:11, 02 May 12
Ahhh. Ok! You got me  :o  I continue searching then... (hmm... and I thought in later levels it also scrolls up, but I probably mixed that...).

Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 11:11, 02 May 12
Ahhh. Ok! You got me  :o  I continue searching then... (hmm... and I thought in later levels it also scrolls up, but I probably mixed that...).

It does indeed scroll down, but it's more of a Mr Heli fashion in where there are no diagonals.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: MacDeath on 15:54, 02 May 12
Quote
Side Arms
yurk, the graphics would need a serious re-job.

Quote
Heh heh!! No it's not! It's not multi directional either
also, "rail shooter" or "rail scrolling" (continuous, automatic, whatever) is not exactly the same as a scrolling "on demand"... I guess...
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 22:48, 02 May 12
yurk, the graphics would need a serious re-job.
True this, especially the "hero". Well the old damn-speccy-port problem.
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: MacDeath on 00:31, 03 May 12
[AMSTRAD CPC] Side Arms Longplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08wOOMEGdO0#)
quite slow anyway...
some sprites like the powerups, don't seem to move that smootjly.
And the small screen is qutie reminiscent of speccy portage.
Let's compare...

Speccy :
Side Arms ZX Spectrum © 1988 Go! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLZOSP0NXU#)

C64 :
C64 Longplay - Side Arms (last levels) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-TllZPwWI#)

Dating from 1987... many graphics weren't as good as CPC could, and they couldn't code shit without a speccy obviously.
I suspect that for once they had a proper Graphic artist, but obviously the guy had no access to the original arcade game.

not even to the C64 graphics.
they probably gave him the Speccy graphics and then he had to do something over this... erf...

even the palette is quite badly used sometimes...

(http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_jeu3/1933.png) (http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_jeu3/1933.png)
just look at first boss...(well, obviously, this is the only boss lol)
what is this shitty gradient ?
orange, dark green, dark red, dark yellow and grey ? wtf ???

the weapons choice (bottom) use exactly the same pixelisation as the speccy... but as it is mode0 instead, it is the full screen wide (well, speccy sized screen anyway)

also the blue frame keeps some inspirations from the speccy one (twisted thing) yet also twice larger (mode0)

(http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_titre/1933.png) (http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_titre/1933.png)
ouch, it hurts my eyes, this grey is so badly used it hurts...


Damn you US Gold (more like "us-Shit stealing our-gold", but a few exceptions though), you ruined my life and my beloved CPC !!!!!

Those games don't even have a proper end, because they are so shitty nobody never play them to the end.


Now let's cry a bit more :
Hyper Dyne Sidearms arcade 1 coin clear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjFY0QQ8EKE#)

ouch, its reminds me when i heard Xain sleen'a was actually ported on CPC as soldier of light...

Xain'D sleenA / Solar Warrior / Soldier of Light arcade coin-op MAME HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ZDVUVnlTs#)
Soldier Of Light (Xain'd Sleena) per Amstrad CPC - Gameplay by Ataru'75 [078] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zCVU2o6_mY#)
Soldier Of Light - ZX Spectrum - The Quiet Video Game Nerd (QVGN) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VRO1GCoti4#)

Those guys couldn't handle the CPC palette, and emulating speccy with Mode0 graphics does not often make a good game...

The shooter part is not that slow though, and to be fair, this port is not too far from the arcade...
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 01:09, 03 May 12
So true!!!
 
Well, and usually GO made good CPC Games, but in this case they were screwed obviously.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: ivarf on 12:05, 04 May 12
I looked at a bunch of mutli directional scrolling on Xyphoes A-Z of football games - but they were choppy.
So far the best multi directional scrolling I have seen is Dynamite Dux and Skate Crazy.
If you want the best multidirectional scrolling, I suggest you take a look at TLL (Tornado Low Level) from Vortex
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:08, 04 May 12
I have written some example code to show off vertical pixel by pixel scroll.
I will add horizontal to it, then we can get an idea of what works well and how much cpu/ram it all takes.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 18:48, 04 May 12
If you want the best multidirectional scrolling, I suggest you take a look at TLL (Tornado Low Level) from Vortex
Well, that's what I pray since decades ;-) However, it has not a 1-pixel scroll, therefore I didn't mention it here.
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: ivarf on 00:45, 05 May 12
Well, that's what I pray since decades ;-) However, it has not a 1-pixel scroll, therefore I didn't mention it here.


I know it isn't a 1-pixel scroller, but as sigh wrote "So far the best multi directional scrolling I have seen is" I thought it was about time to mention it again. How important is 1-bit scrolling when you can have a scroll so fast and smooth fullscreen on the CPC? Most of the other diagonal scrollers mentioned in this thread are just rubbish in my humble opinion
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 03:00, 05 May 12
Totally agreed! (Since my prods haven't been mentioned  :laugh: )  :)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 03:14, 05 May 12
For old generation CPC, I believe the smoothest scroll in 8 directions is in a PD game called "Burning Wheels" by T. M. SCHMIDT :

http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635)

Almost impossible for me to play  :'( ...
Sorry, offtopic:
 
Pressing Fire 1 works as break, took me some time to see...
However it's a nice game and it also runs under FutureOS. I gave it an icon and prepared a DSK (see FutureOS - The revolutionary UltraOS for the CPC6128 and CPCPlus (http://www.futureos.de)).
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 13:33, 05 May 12
I have written some example code to show off vertical pixel by pixel scroll.
I will add horizontal to it, then we can get an idea of what works well and how much cpu/ram it all takes.

This would be fantastic! The results would be very interesting.

 

I know it isn't a 1-pixel scroller, but as sigh wrote "So far the best multi directional scrolling I have seen is" I thought it was about time to mention it again. How important is 1-bit scrolling when you can have a scroll so fast and smooth fullscreen on the CPC? Most of the other diagonal scrollers mentioned in this thread are just rubbish in my humble opinion

1 pixel scrolling is definitely important (in my opinion) when it comes to sports games or some scrolling shooters which may need a tighter control when it comes to movement and feedback. Many football games suffered on the CPC due to some choppy scrolling, ruining the overall experience.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TotO on 16:54, 05 May 12
1 pixel scrolling is definitely important (in my opinion) when it comes to sports games or some scrolling shooters which may need a tighter control when it comes to movement and feedback. Many football games suffered on the CPC due to some choppy scrolling, ruining the overall experience.
1 pixel scrolling is important for games that required slow map moves (r-type/gauntlet/...). If the scrolling is fast or if your display is not 50Hz (but 25Hz or less), half or full char scrolling is fine.


Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 17:24, 05 May 12
1 pixel scrolling is important for games that required slow map moves (r-type/gauntlet/...). If the scrolling is fast or if your display is not 50Hz (but 25Hz or less), half or full char scrolling is fine.

Yes. It definitely depends on the type of game.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:26, 07 May 12
I have written some example code to show off vertical pixel by pixel scroll.
I will add horizontal to it, then we can get an idea of what works well and how much cpu/ram it all takes.

Standard scroll, char by char, very fast(!) and smooth(!):
8 pixels vertically , 16 pixels in mode 2 horizontally each frame.
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asm)

Vertical scroll using R5, horizontal scroll using R3, very smooth (!):
1 pixel vertically, 8 pixels in mode 2 horizontally (2 in mode 0, 4 in mode 1) each frame.
Both working together.
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm)
 
Vertically it is as smooth as Mission Genocide.

Vertical scroll using R5, horizontal scroll 2 screens each offset by 1 byte:
 1 pixel vertically, 8 pixels in mode 2 horizontally (2 in mode 0, 4 in mode 1) each frame.
 Both working together.
 http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll3.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll3.asm)
 
Tests run on CPC6128 with crtc type 1, cpc plus cm14 monitor.

All are smooth.

test 3 uses 2 times as much ram (32k) because we need to store a version that is not offset and one that is offset.
For this the scrolling must be continuous. No changes to hsync, vsync so compatible with all monitors.

Others use normal amount (16k), scroll can stop and start. R3 scroll not compatible with all monitors/televisions/modulators.

If you want double buffered double this up.

So it shows that R5 and R3 scrolling can be used together.

It's not pixel by pixel yet, that is the next step, also it doesn't draw any new graphics.. it shifts the existing graphics it draws at the start.

Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Puresox on 17:45, 07 May 12
What is Gauntlets scrolling rate?
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 18:44, 07 May 12
Standard scroll, char by char, very fast(!) and smooth(!):
8 pixels vertically , 16 pixels in mode 2 horizontally each frame.
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asm)

Vertical scroll using R5, horizontal scroll using R3, very smooth (!):
1 pixel vertically, 8 pixels in mode 2 horizontally (2 in mode 0, 4 in mode 1) each frame.
Both working together.
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm)
 
Vertically it is as smooth as Mission Genocide.

Vertical scroll using R5, horizontal scroll 2 screens each offset by 1 byte:
 1 pixel vertically, 8 pixels in mode 2 horizontally (2 in mode 0, 4 in mode 1) each frame.
 Both working together.
 http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll3.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll3.asm)
 
Tests run on CPC6128 with crtc type 1, cpc plus cm14 monitor.

All are smooth.

test 3 uses 2 times as much ram (32k) because we need to store a version that is not offset and one that is offset.
For this the scrolling must be continuous. No changes to hsync, vsync so compatible with all monitors.

Others use normal amount (16k), scroll can stop and start. R3 scroll not compatible with all monitors/televisions/modulators.

If you want double buffered double this up.

So it shows that R5 and R3 scrolling can be used together.

It's not pixel by pixel yet, that is the next step, also it doesn't draw any new graphics.. it shifts the existing graphics it draws at the start.

These results are incredibly interesting! (thank you very much!)

It'm guessing that "Burning Wheels" is using the "R3" scroll method in conjuction with the 1 pixel vertical scroll as it looks very much like your example. It seems that the shaking in the diagonal movement is due to the horizontal scroll moving 2 pixels instead of 1; meaning that it's always shifting an extra horizontal pixel against the single pixel vertical?

(Though both the 2nd and 3rd examples looked very similar in terms of the diagonals)

So to achieve the 1 pixel scroll in both directions (which would sort out the shaking) the R5 method would have to be used? This would mean that a game must continuosly scroll, so how could it be done so that the scroll could stop, start and go backwards? etc.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 21:58, 07 May 12
@Arnoldemu: That was a great idea to provide source of scrolling. Let my suggest one thing. You could give an example of vertical scrolling (w/o horizontal scrolling), that may be good for people who are "new" to scrolling. (Just an idea).  :)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Executioner on 04:22, 08 May 12
So to achieve the 1 pixel scroll in both directions (which would sort out the shaking) the R5 method would have to be used? This would mean that a game must continuosly scroll, so how could it be done so that the scroll could stop, start and go backwards? etc.

Using R5 scrolling should enable the scroll to stop, start, go backwards, whatever you want. The same applies to using R3 for scrolling so long as your sprites and other updates are NOT double-buffered in such a way that they're always drawn on the 1 byte offset screen. Not using the offset screen for a double buffer effectively reduces the amount of time you have to erase and draw sprites and may complicate the timing to handle them. It also means that you must be able to do everything in a single 50Hz frame, whereas a double-buffered offset screen can be updated at 25Hz or slower if you like.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:00, 08 May 12
@Arnoldemu: That was a great idea to provide source of scrolling. Let my suggest one thing. You could give an example of vertical scrolling (w/o horizontal scrolling), that may be good for people who are "new" to scrolling. (Just an idea).  :)
I will, these are early examples :)
final ones will not have a repeating background.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:03, 08 May 12
These results are incredibly interesting! (thank you very much!)

It'm guessing that "Burning Wheels" is using the "R3" scroll method in conjuction with the 1 pixel vertical scroll as it looks very much like your example. It seems that the shaking in the diagonal movement is due to the horizontal scroll moving 2 pixels instead of 1; meaning that it's always shifting an extra horizontal pixel against the single pixel vertical?
I didn't see any shaking when using a plus monitor and cpc with type 1. It is possible that for other crtcs other values are needed.
Or do you mean down the sides?
There will always be some flickering down the sides when using r3 scroll method.
With r5 vertically it can be reduced, but still it can be there.

(Though both the 2nd and 3rd examples looked very similar in terms of the diagonals)
the scrolling rate is the same. The difference is that example 3 doesn't use r3, it uses a screen that is moved by 1 byte horizontally.

So to achieve the 1 pixel scroll in both directions (which would sort out the shaking) the R5 method would have to be used? This would mean that a game must continuosly scroll, so how could it be done so that the scroll could stop, start and go backwards? etc.
to use 1 pixel in vertical, r5 is used and there is no limit, you can start/stop as you want.
I will show this in another example.

if you want 1 pixel horizontally you need to make decisions to sacrifice ram or it working on all monitors.
I will do more examples to show this.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Axelay on 12:36, 08 May 12

It'm guessing that "Burning Wheels" is using the "R3" scroll method in conjuction with the 1 pixel vertical scroll as it looks very much like your example. It seems that the shaking in the diagonal movement is due to the horizontal scroll moving 2 pixels instead of 1; meaning that it's always shifting an extra horizontal pixel against the single pixel vertical?



I was interested to see what "Burning Wheels" was doing so I've had a bit of a look.  The horizontal scrolling is R3 with two screens offset by one pixel, working together to produce a 1 mode 0 pixel step horizontal scroll.  The vertical scroll is interesting though, it does not use R5, but uses R9 to set the character height to 4 pixels high rather than the normal 8 pixels.  So now the 'course' vertical hardware scroll is 4 pixels instead of 8, and it then uses a further 2 screens that mirror the first 2 but are vertically offset by 2 pixels.  So it can use this combination of 4 screens and R3 to scroll horizontally by 1 mode 0 pixel and vertically by 2 pixels.

I dont see any reason why this approach should have an issue with diagonal scrolling, and slowing down an emulator I can see when moving diagonally the screen sometimes shifts both vertically and horizontally, but sometimes not, so that is why it's not smooth sometimes.  I would take a guess that this is only occurring because of the way it's calculating the multi directional movement, which is not fixed to 8 directions but is a full 360 degree movement, or at least something close to it.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:07, 08 May 12

I was interested to see what "Burning Wheels" was doing so I've had a bit of a look.  The horizontal scrolling is R3 with two screens offset by one pixel, working together to produce a 1 mode 0 pixel step horizontal scroll.  The vertical scroll is interesting though, it does not use R5, but uses R9 to set the character height to 4 pixels high rather than the normal 8 pixels.  So now the 'course' vertical hardware scroll is 4 pixels instead of 8, and it then uses a further 2 screens that mirror the first 2 but are vertically offset by 2 pixels.  So it can use this combination of 4 screens and R3 to scroll horizontally by 1 mode 0 pixel and vertically by 2 pixels.

I dont see any reason why this approach should have an issue with diagonal scrolling, and slowing down an emulator I can see when moving diagonally the screen sometimes shifts both vertically and horizontally, but sometimes not, so that is why it's not smooth sometimes.  I would take a guess that this is only occurring because of the way it's calculating the multi directional movement, which is not fixed to 8 directions but is a full 360 degree movement, or at least something close to it.
I have seen this 4 pixels R9 setting used before. It is a good way to have 2 screens together which can be switched and which use the same 16k block of ram.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 18:49, 08 May 12
I will, these are early examples :)
final ones will not have a repeating background.
That really doesn't matter. In contrast, I think (IMHO) it's better to keep code simple, so people got a chance to understand it.
I thought about releasing a kind of skeleton of my game engines scroll code too, nothing special, but since it need also a screen at &0000 it will be of no interrest to most people. But I guess in your examples it's shown how it works.
Now, let's hope that some more people pick up your examples and learn how to scroll smooth ;-)
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 19:14, 08 May 12
About R9: I was able (real CPC, not emu) to work with R9=1 (2 scanlines per character-line), which has quite some advantages. But did ever somebody manage it to work with R9=0 (just one scanline per line) ??? That would be a "good to have", the screen would be much more easy to use.
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: fano on 19:28, 08 May 12
The problem is R9=0 is not compatible with CRTC 2 is my memory is good.Playing with R9 values on a character based rendering is good idea anyway.If i remember well , X-Out used R9=5 for example.

A personal thought about linear addressing for lines maybe not more optimised than the actual one , it is actually faster to set or res one or two bits to reach next line than doing a 16bits addition.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:40, 08 May 12
That really doesn't matter. In contrast, I think (IMHO) it's better to keep code simple, so people got a chance to understand it.
I thought about releasing a kind of skeleton of my game engines scroll code too, nothing special, but since it need also a screen at &0000 it will be of no interrest to most people. But I guess in your examples it's shown how it works.
Now, let's hope that some more people pick up your examples and learn how to scroll smooth ;-)
I would like to see your "crossfire" scrolling code.
Does it use rupture and split the screen into 2 sections each of which are scrolled?
You then clip sprites if they cross the 2 areas?

Back to the 1 pixel scrolling:

I am updating the examples so you can control them with the keyboard.

I will add plus scroll too for comparison and to show how it's done.

After I am done showing various scrolling, I'll then move onto the scrolls used in games (push scroll etc so we can compare the merits of these).


Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 21:26, 08 May 12

I was interested to see what "Burning Wheels" was doing so I've had a bit of a look.  The horizontal scrolling is R3 with two screens offset by one pixel, working together to produce a 1 mode 0 pixel step horizontal scroll.  The vertical scroll is interesting though, it does not use R5, but uses R9 to set the character height to 4 pixels high rather than the normal 8 pixels.  So now the 'course' vertical hardware scroll is 4 pixels instead of 8, and it then uses a further 2 screens that mirror the first 2 but are vertically offset by 2 pixels.  So it can use this combination of 4 screens and R3 to scroll horizontally by 1 mode 0 pixel and vertically by 2 pixels.

I dont see any reason why this approach should have an issue with diagonal scrolling, and slowing down an emulator I can see when moving diagonally the screen sometimes shifts both vertically and horizontally, but sometimes not, so that is why it's not smooth sometimes.  I would take a guess that this is only occurring because of the way it's calculating the multi directional movement, which is not fixed to 8 directions but is a full 360 degree movement, or at least something close to it.


Okay - it must be my laptop as the screen doesn't have a very high refresh rate that's causing shaky screen syndrome; it has a very old graphics card! So R9 can 1 pixel scroll vertical? Or is it limited to 2 pixels?


I would like to see your "crossfire" scrolling code.
Does it use rupture and split the screen into 2 sections each of which are scrolled?
You then clip sprites if they cross the 2 areas?

Back to the 1 pixel scrolling:

I am updating the examples so you can control them with the keyboard.

I will add plus scroll too for comparison and to show how it's done.

After I am done showing various scrolling, I'll then move onto the scrolls used in games (push scroll etc so we can compare the merits of these).




Excellent! I'm really looking forward to seeing multi directional 1 pixel scroliing  on a CPC for the very first time!
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 21:37, 08 May 12
The problem is R9=0 is not compatible with CRTC 2 is my memory is good.Playing with R9 values on a character based rendering is good idea anyway.If i remember well , X-Out used R9=5 for example.

A personal thought about linear addressing for lines maybe not more optimised than the actual one , it is actually faster to set or res one or two bits to reach next line than doing a 16bits addition.
Agreed! That's the idea :-) And btw. ... my CPCs are CRTC 2  :-X
 
EDIT: Never tried on Plus, because there you have other stuff to play with. Maybe I should give it a try there.
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 21:41, 08 May 12
I would like to see your "crossfire" scrolling code.
Does it use rupture and split the screen into 2 sections each of which are scrolled?
You then clip sprites if they cross the 2 areas?
Using two screens of 16 KB each, in the middle of the screen they must be switched (in realtime, means at least close to one interrupt which occurs short before, but not at ys level, so it's convenient).
Yes the sprite is more often divided for the two screen RAM blocks, but the transfer is easy just reset or set the two high-bytes of the V-RAM address. Yes, the start-address of both screens must be choosen wisly, but only once, then just treat both screens equal. (If you like parallax scrolling, it get's a bit nasty though).
 
 
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Executioner on 01:37, 09 May 12
The problem is R9=0 is not compatible with CRTC 2 is my memory is good.

I didn't know about this one. Lots of demos use R9=0, and yes, most emulators do support it as far as I know. The problem with R9=0 is you can only use 1/8th of memory for the screen, and it's always the first 2K of each 16K block. Even using a 32K addressing trick and 64 byte screen width you're limited to a 64 line screen (or 128 if you do a split in the middle and use 8K of memory, one lot of 2K in each 16K block). It can be done if you're using Interrupt Mode 2.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:28, 09 May 12
Using two screens of 16 KB each, in the middle of the screen they must be switched (in realtime, means at least close to one interrupt which occurs short before, but not at ys level, so it's convenient).
Yes the sprite is more often divided for the two screen RAM blocks, but the transfer is easy just reset or set the two high-bytes of the V-RAM address. Yes, the start-address of both screens must be choosen wisly, but only once, then just treat both screens equal. (If you like parallax scrolling, it get's a bit nasty though).
Ok, I will try to make my own crossfire now ;)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 23:36, 09 May 12
Updated sources:


Controls:

number pad 4 left, 8 up, 6 right, 2 down. The following keys do diagonals: 7 up-left, 9 is up-right, 1 is down-left, 3 is down-right. I did it this way so we can see diagonals working perfect (pressing up/left, right/down is not possible with this code.)

Normal scroll, use the keys to control it:
 http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asm)

Smooth vertical (R5) and horizontal R3 byte-by-byte:
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm)
 
Plus hardware scrolling. Setup for mode 0 (4 "mode 2" pixels in horizonal, 1 in vertical).
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1p.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1p.asm)
 
Next stage I will let user choose mode so we can work out perfect increments for each mode (especially for plus).

I will also add r3 and screen offset by 1 pixel for smooth mode 0 scroll this way, and update example 3 to use 4 screens.

I started an example to show what happens with overscan screen (using r12/r13 overscan method).

Watch out for a crossfire example soon  :P

(I also need to add better comments and descriptions to the code)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 13:25, 10 May 12
At work and really looking forward to downloading these examples when I get home; I just can't wait to see the results!

So have you finally cracked the 1 pixel multi scroll?(sorry - I don't have winape at work) How much memory does it use and what were the main difficulties?


Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:48, 10 May 12
At work and really looking forward to downloading these examples when I get home; I just can't wait to see the results!

So have you finally cracked the 1 pixel multi scroll?(sorry - I don't have winape at work) How much memory does it use and what were the main difficulties?
no sorry, I just added keys so it can be controlled.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 16:33, 10 May 12
no sorry, I just added keys so it can be controlled.

Okay, cool.

Quick question - How many frames per second is it scrolling?
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:54, 10 May 12
Okay, cool.

Quick question - How many frames per second is it scrolling?
50 fps.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 22:42, 10 May 12
50 fps.

I managed to get the first and last example working and they look great - but I didn't manage to get the second example to run. It just stayed on the screen with all the symbols and letters even though I pressed all the keys on my laptop. (I have to hold down alt to use numberpad keys...)

The last example with the plus is EXACTLY the smooth motion I'm looking for on the CPC. It's just one big drool of lovliness!!!
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:25, 11 May 12
I managed to get the first and last example working and they look great - but I didn't manage to get the second example to run. It just stayed on the screen with all the symbols and letters even though I pressed all the keys on my laptop. (I have to hold down alt to use numberpad keys...)

The last example with the plus is EXACTLY the smooth motion I'm looking for on the CPC. It's just one big drool of lovliness!!!
On winape i think you have to press num lock first to activate f keys?

I'll have another example to show soon.

To give correct speed in left/right and up/down on mode 0, you need to move 1 pixel in x and 2 pixels in y.
I will upload it tonight to show.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 21:46, 11 May 12
Just tried the num lock and got the second example working. Very smooth in vertical.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Xyphoe on 23:24, 14 May 12
Just another perhaps daft one to throw in the mix that does things a little differently is COMMANDO, it achieves very smooth 1 px scrolling vertically, but it's not scrolling the whole screen but just the background objects (eg trees, sandbags, trenches, etc) as tiles I guess. Whilst it can look a little wobbly and when there's a large section to move things can slow down (eg a bridge and tunnel, and especially later on with landing strips which are AWFUL), I like that the programmer 'thought out the box' (I hate that phrase btw!) a bit - and we ended up with a very fast and smooth playing arcade conversion that's great fun. It's nice to see something taking a different approach for scrolling, if not entirely successful. Hopefully it might throw up a few ideas.


[AMSTRAD CPC] Commando - Review & Longplay(*) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ToR57XqF4#)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Bryce on 23:28, 14 May 12
I like that the programmer 'thought out the box' (I hate that phrase btw!) a bit

Then try using the real phrase "Thought outside of the box" :D but I hate that phrase too though.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 01:19, 16 May 12
Just another perhaps daft one to throw in the mix that does things a little differently is COMMANDO, it achieves very smooth 1 px scrolling vertically, but it's not scrolling the whole screen but just the background objects (eg trees, sandbags, trenches, etc) as tiles I guess. Whilst it can look a little wobbly and when there's a large section to move things can slow down (eg a bridge and tunnel, and especially later on with landing strips which are AWFUL), I like that the programmer 'thought out the box' (I hate that phrase btw!) a bit - and we ended up with a very fast and smooth playing arcade conversion that's great fun. It's nice to see something taking a different approach for scrolling, if not entirely successful. Hopefully it might throw up a few ideas.

Yes - I was also thinking about this method too. Maybe with commando, I wonder if it would of been possible to switch to a vertical scroll for the more complicated bits, then switch back to the tile scroll when those complicated sections had finished scrolling pass the screen....
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: MacDeath on 12:51, 16 May 12
Quote
I like that the programmer 'thought out the box' (I hate that phrase btw!) a bit
Quote
Then try using the real phrase "Thought outside of the box"  but I hate that phrase too though.

Chancellor Puddinghead thinks outside the box (inside the chimney) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVQR9bDLQoo#ws)

 :laugh:

But yeah, it's like registering outside the CPU.
Or addressing outside the main RAM.
Title: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:33, 18 May 12
Okay guys and gals - here's the reason for this thread :)

Around a year ago I promised to work on a "heavily animated football game" along with completing the beat em up. The beat em up is starting again from next month as I haven't touched it since last year, being back at fulltime work amongst other things, which means I'm having to try harder to juggle my hours more efficiently. The beat em up is one a helluva task, so I had put it aside to attempt something a little simpler; the "Football" game - not a favourite sport of mine, but as an animator I enjoy watching the movement:

Rough example (please ignore the sliding sprites!)

(http://i.imgur.com/3WSLf.gif)

(http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/7tdtlgo3bxbee8see15y.gif)

All the sprites, animation and graphics are finished!! The backgrounds are also done, but I have feeling that I may have far too many sprites. It's taken around 72KB and that includes both teams and the frames mirrored, pitch, referee and linesman. The goal keeper ended up having it's own sheet as I got far to excited and animated him rolling on the ground and performing allsorts of nonsense, but I'm thinking that his diving could just be compressed and then uncompressed when it needs to happen. Otherwise, he'll just skip around the field like anybody else.

(http://i.imgur.com/EPUp5.gif)

(http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/4km9btgpky02pap4mej.gif)


As you can see, unfortunately the pitch isn't vertically long enough which may limit the experience when performing set ups, passing and tactical play, though I'm not to sure how other people feel about this. I think that multi directional scrolling through horizontal and vertical would solve the problem, but more importantly; it would be interesting to experiment with this sort of scrolling.

The examples shown are moving at 1 pixel at 25 frames per second. The screen is 320 x 200 with the pitch being 320 x 194.
The sprites are 16 x 16, though some are are much smaller due to sliding tackles, diving headers, bicycle kicks etc. The locomotion of the sprites which are the walk, jog, run, sprint and skipping, take the most space on the sprite sheet.  With these different locomotions, it would give a better sense of realism rather than having just one run cycle.
One more thing I would like to see is different nationalities/races within a team. For instance, with UK football having it's fair share of black and asian players, it would be nice to have this reflected if possible in the teams. :)


Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ivarf on 07:51, 18 May 12
Wow! This looks exremly good for an 8-bit footy game!  :D
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: Xyphoe on 11:34, 18 May 12
Then try using the real phrase "Thought outside of the box" :D but I hate that phrase too though.

Bryce.

Goddamn pedants!



(ps the phrase is actually "Thinking outside the box"  :P :P :P )
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 11:45, 18 May 12

(http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/4km9btgpky02pap4mej.gif)


WOW! WOW! WOW! YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!

Like x 1000000000

This has made me so happy and excited!!! Basically I LOVE arcade soccer games (of the 80s to early 90s era) and have always been bitterly disappointed that none of the Amstrad footie games come up to scratch. Sure I love Emlyn Hughes, but it's slow and more of a sim.  People seem to rate Italy 1990 highly due to it's speed and colours, but it plays a crap game of football. The fact that the C64 had the amazing Microprose Soccer and even the ancient International Soccer just makes me want to cry more bitterly!

But my god... if you manage to finish this and have it looking/moving anything like the above I will love you all forever!!!

It seems like it might be heading in the direction of a cross between ...

The old International Soccer on the C64 -

C64 Longplay - International Soccer (HQ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_NPwL1kpU#)

And Tecmo World Cup 90 (the best coin-op!) -

[ARCADE/COIN-OP] Tecmo World Cup '90 (MAME) - Speed Run : one credit, hardest difficulty, least time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDR58LZ497Y#)

Something in the middle of that would be awesome! And guys... if it helps, don't be afraid to make it a Plus game with hardware sprites and scrolling ... soccer games should be fast, smooth and fun - ignoring Italy 1990 which fails on the basics of soccer this is where the Amstrad has failed time and time again.

Heck ... anything I can do to help out let me know! I'm no coder, but maybe I'll get back into my soundtrakker and write some music ... or I could do the box art, instructions, website and hosting for it, whatever!! I want this completed! LOL! xxx  :P :-*
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 11:47, 18 May 12
ps ... it would be nice if the billboards / advertising boards had things advertising CPC Wiki, Easter Egg, BB4CPC, etc on them! That would be a really nice cool little touch!



pps ... Macdeath you can thank me for giving you your 100th like!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 11:53, 18 May 12
Oh and I don't think it's any issue in keeping the sprites 'small' ... don't worry about that... look how well it worked out for Sensible Soccer and the Kick Off series....

If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally) that might speed things up no end, maybe the R3 trick would be possible if not doing Plus verion.

We also need to come up with a cool name for it that links it to the Amstrad ... I dunno, like....  CPC Super Cup Finals, International Amstrad Soccer (to be cheeky!), etc. But probably not "AMSOCCER" lol ... besides that's already been used believe it or not! (and is really really shit!)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: MacDeath on 15:44, 18 May 12
I always wondered, would it be that difficult to have such side scroling Footy game, but with the "lines" and some stuff done in "3D" yet with a 2D sprite layer on this ?
With this, the lines would perform some sort of proper animated perspective perhaps.

One good point with footy games is that as CPC is a bit... old school, you may need only small sprites.

Having the screen redimensionned into a vertical 256pixels can enable to use only one kind of scrolling.


Post edition : thx for the 100th "like"

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:48, 18 May 12
Oh and I don't think it's any issue in keeping the sprites 'small' ... don't worry about that... look how well it worked out for Sensible Soccer and the Kick Off series....

If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally) that might speed things up no end, maybe the R3 trick would be possible if not doing Plus verion.

We also need to come up with a cool name for it that links it to the Amstrad ... I dunno, like....  CPC Super Cup Finals, International Amstrad Soccer (to be cheeky!), etc. But probably not "AMSOCCER" lol ... besides that's already been used believe it or not! (and is really really shit!)
I think the graphics are great, but what really makes a good game is the playability.
This is true of any game.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 15:57, 18 May 12
I always wondered, would it be that difficult to have such side scroling Footy game, but with the "lines" and some stuff done in "3D" yet with a 2D sprite layer on this ?
With this, the lines would perform some sort of proper animated perspective perhaps.

One good point with footy games is that as CPC is a bit... old school, you may need only small sprites.

Having the screen redimensionned into a vertical 256pixels can enable to use only one kind of scrolling.


An interesting idea on the vertical, though I don't think it's going to be enough.
Also - are you talking about parallaxing the ground? The problem with perspective is that the sprites would then have to look a little smaller in the distance for it to be convincing, plus the distance the sprite travels would have to be altered too



I think the graphics are great, but what really makes a good game is the playability.
This is true of any game.

Indeed! No point having all that animation if everything else ends up being choppy!

 
Oh and I don't think it's any issue in keeping the sprites 'small' ... don't worry about that... look how well it worked out for Sensible Soccer and the Kick Off series....

If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally) that might speed things up no end, maybe the R3 trick would be possible if not doing Plus verion.

We also need to come up with a cool name for it that links it to the Amstrad ... I dunno, like....  CPC Super Cup Finals, International Amstrad Soccer (to be cheeky!), etc. But probably not "AMSOCCER" lol ... besides that's already been used believe it or not! (and is really really shit!)

You know...I've never liked top down vertical scrolling footy games and that's probably because it's not how it's viewed when you watch it on tv or a live stadium. It also feels too much like playing a pinball machine. I tried different character sizes and 16x16 seemed like the best compromise, although it's still a little bigger than how I would like it to be. Looking at football matches on tv (or even the latest footy games) the view of the pitch is incredibly zoomed out that your almost counting anything up to 16 to 18 players in one shot! It's for this reason why creative plays are possible in these games. The more you can see in a large area, the more creative you can be.

Yeah football names! The only one I could think of was "Nationwide Soccer" which also is up for grabs as a domain name(Nationwide Soccer.com) :D . But yes - any football name idea are welcome as I'd need to do the splash/menu screen.

One other question: How hard is it to implement action replays? I know that microprose soccer had it.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: MacDeath on 17:20, 18 May 12
the "placement matrix" for the sprites would need to be calculated like the lines on the floor.

Concerning the differently sized sprites... well perhaps.
But you know, even if the lines on the grass are generated in 2D/bitmap (= no parralax), you should still get this sort of deepness perspective effect...

Of course as the sprites are already small, not a lot of zoom perhaps, let's say 3 sizes could do... a bit the way the Race/driving games often managed the way stuff would zoom.

Also depends whether you aim at a 64K RAM game or 128K RAM game...
Good point with those sprites is that they are small... but as you need :
=8 direction facing... faster if you double the spriteset (more RAM used), use CPU if you use a mirror Effect.
=many poses (walk, run, takle, shoot and so on... in 8 directions...).
=Palette swap, easier CPUwise if you simply double the sprite sets... CPU intensive if you use the same spriteset for both teams...
64K RAM is not always good.



False 3D in isometric/cavalier perspective display are false too anyway.

Paralax effect yeah, but what I suggested was to get those white lines generated in "Vector graphics"...
So not really 3D but sort of... a 3D plane or whatever.

Good point is perhaps that such vector graphic plane could need no bitmaped tiles... and scrolling may be easier then.

example :

your footy game.

on the top, you would have a "normal" bitmapped zone (the public/score) which may need to scroll though.

Then you have the "vector line" zone, with a masked bitmap sprite screen in overlay.

the grass could perhaps also even have some sort of "starfield" (grassfield indeed) in order to get a grassy effect...

Lines could have different size (wideness) in order to get those goalpost/cages (what is it named in english ?)


I was mostly "suggesting and asking", because actually I don't know if the CPC is powerfull enough to do such thing... nor if the gain would be that great.

But if it could be done, you could then get some sort of proper awesome ProEvolutionSoccerCPC... ;)

Quote
top down vertical scrolling footy games
not always good when playing 2player game perhaps... but I loved speedball 2...
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 21:39, 18 May 12
the "placement matrix" for the sprites would need to be calculated like the lines on the floor.

Concerning the differently sized sprites... well perhaps.
But you know, even if the lines on the grass are generated in 2D/bitmap (= no parralax), you should still get this sort of deepness perspective effect...

Of course as the sprites are already small, not a lot of zoom perhaps, let's say 3 sizes could do... a bit the way the Race/driving games often managed the way stuff would zoom.

Also depends whether you aim at a 64K RAM game or 128K RAM game...
Good point with those sprites is that they are small... but as you need :
=8 direction facing... faster if you double the spriteset (more RAM used), use CPU if you use a mirror Effect.
=many poses (walk, run, takle, shoot and so on... in 8 directions...).
=Palette swap, easier CPUwise if you simply double the sprite sets... CPU intensive if you use the same spriteset for both teams...
64K RAM is not always good.



False 3D in isometric/cavalier perspective display are false too anyway.

Paralax effect yeah, but what I suggested was to get those white lines generated in "Vector graphics"...
So not really 3D but sort of... a 3D plane or whatever.

Good point is perhaps that such vector graphic plane could need no bitmaped tiles... and scrolling may be easier then.

example :

your footy game.

on the top, you would have a "normal" bitmapped zone (the public/score) which may need to scroll though.

Then you have the "vector line" zone, with a masked bitmap sprite screen in overlay.

the grass could perhaps also even have some sort of "starfield" (grassfield indeed) in order to get a grassy effect...

Lines could have different size (wideness) in order to get those goalpost/cages (what is it named in english ?)


I was mostly "suggesting and asking", because actually I don't know if the CPC is powerfull enough to do such thing... nor if the gain would be that great.

But if it could be done, you could then get some sort of proper awesome ProEvolutionSoccerCPC... ;)
not always good when playing 2player game perhaps... but I loved speedball 2...

Good point on the game size. It's for the 128KB machines, however, a 64kB would also be more than possible (no 1 pixel scrolling) but there would be an incredible amount of animations missing and I would have to rethink how the sprites would work. as I would never use mode 1 for this type of game. It would definitely be really nice to make a 64KB version but only after the 128KB as this is what I am more excited about.

As regards to scrolling - it's still way out of my sphere of knowledge of what can be done especially in regards to vectors. I'm guessing that the actual grass tiles wont need to scroll and it will be the white lines, the crowd and advertising boards and the goal when needed?

All the sprite animations have been done along with their mirrored version including both teams. No mirroring is needed, and no colouring is needed, unless we go for different skin colours within the same team which is something I would really like to see. I don't think I've seen this implemented yet in an 8 bit footy game.



Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 21:58, 18 May 12
Doh! I made a mistake

"If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally)"

I meant to say the opposite - if we can get away with just horizontally scrolling I would prefer that, I like side-on soccer games. Although, the most successful (Sensible Soccer, Kick Off, Microprose Soccer) were all top-down ones and to be honest is more intuitive from a gameplay point of view arguably, but then when we watch on TV it's side-on and modern football games (Fifa, Pro Evo) are side-on by default.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 22:49, 18 May 12
Doh! I made a mistake

"If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally)"

I meant to say the opposite - if we can get away with just horizontally scrolling I would prefer that, I like side-on soccer games. Although, the most successful (Sensible Soccer, Kick Off, Microprose Soccer) were all top-down ones and to be honest is more intuitive from a gameplay point of view arguably, but then when we watch on TV it's side-on and modern football games (Fifa, Pro Evo) are side-on by default.

If we can only get away with horizontal and no vertical, then yes - that's the way it would have to be. I found top down view to be less intuitive due to having less screen width which is more important than height. as the pitch fits the television screen better enabling to see more. I could never really see much from top view and even with sensible soccer I always felt that it would of benefited more if they had the birds eye view with the horizontal scroll rather than the vertical one.

Here is the control scheme I have been thinking about, though it's probably way too complicated:

Pass = press direction tap fire (side pass, poke pass)
Lob = Press direction hold fire and release
Shoot = Double tap fire
Throughball = tap fire

Aftertouch/curler = after ball is released, move pad/joystick in direction.

Back heal = Quickly tap opposite direction and press fire.

In Air

Head ball = Press fire to jump then tap/Hold direction
Diving head = Press fire to dive then tap/Hold direction
Bicycle kick = Press fire to flip then tap/Hold direction
Jump and chest down/catch ball = Press fire to jump
Chest down = run into ball
Volley = Hold direction press fire

While running tap forward to sprint
While running tap up or down to feint (side step, dummy, jump over slide tackle, spin around ball while still moving in direction, flick ball)
The different movements are dependant on the distance between players after attempted tackle.

Without ball:

One touch pass = hold down fire button when ball is approaching player.
Slide tackle = direction and fire
Barge = While running tap up or down
Advanced tackle (used against feints) = tap fire
While running tap forward to jump/step over ball
while running forward, tap back to feint ball through legs and turn opposite direction

Approaching ball:

Chest down = run into ball
Volley = press fire

Automatic:

Player changes to who is nearest the ball. Or hold fire and tap direction toward player want to change too.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 14:32, 19 May 12
It would be fantastic to have all those moves to pull off, but I suspect it will slow down the game an awful lot - again case in point Match Day II and Emlyn Hughes which have a large range of moves, but end up being slow.

I would keep it really simple to start with (computer AI is going to be the hardest to program I reckon). Then in the future there can be revised versions released with new features, bit like the Fifa series!

Code it for use of two fire buttons (never understood games made for one fire button ... didn't 95% of joysticks have two buttons?!)...

Fire 1 - low pass / shot along ground (in possession ball) & sliding tackle (not in possession of ball)
Fire 2 - high pass / lob (in possession of ball)  & jump / header (not in possession of ball)

Seriously, have a watch of that Word Cup 90 video I posted (on page 5 of this topic) to see how exactly it achieves this and just how well and fun it works out.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: EgoTrip on 16:44, 19 May 12
I have to say, those screenshots look mighty impressive.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 20:40, 19 May 12
It would be fantastic to have all those moves to pull off, but I suspect it will slow down the game an awful lot - again case in point Match Day II and Emlyn Hughes which have a large range of moves, but end up being slow.

I would keep it really simple to start with (computer AI is going to be the hardest to program I reckon). Then in the future there can be revised versions released with new features, bit like the Fifa series!

Code it for use of two fire buttons (never understood games made for one fire button ... didn't 95% of joysticks have two buttons?!)...

Fire 1 - low pass / shot along ground (in possession ball) & sliding tackle (not in possession of ball)
Fire 2 - high pass / lob (in possession of ball)  & jump / header (not in possession of ball)

Seriously, have a watch of that Word Cup 90 video I posted (on page 5 of this topic) to see how exactly it achieves this and just how well and fun it works out.

The 2 fire buttons is fine single player mode, but will it work for the 2 player game? I remembered that you get interference with a lot of 2 player games on the cpc when one is on keyboard and the other on a joystick. Weren't most of the 2 button joysticks in the 80's, actually just operated as a 1 button joystick?

I watched the World Cup 90 and you were very lucky in the game against Germany :) ! I'm looking for something inbetween a simulation and an arcade and World Cup 90 is very arcadey and a little too pinbally(in my opinion.) It would be nice to have things like through balls etc to set up some more interesting plays as there was quite a lot of bicycle kicks being abused in that game (or maybe that's just because your too damned good!)

You maybe right about the game slowing down as there is a lot of animation, but I'm hoping that the small sprites and there being no need to mirror or have palette changes, will keep it moving around 25 frames per second. We can only try as I'm prepared to go all out on this one as I wont ever be doing a footy game again. If we can get the smooth scrolling and good joystick response times - even if that means losing some animation frames, I will be extremely happy!

The AI is definitely going to be the major challenge for any programmer, as having to work out the ball physics(?), goalkeeper, what the team mates are doing and where they are on the pitch as well as the opponents. I noticed that on a lot of the 8 bit foot games, the players end up being bunched up which reminded me of when I was a kid playing football in the playground, where everyone would just rush for the ball. The goalkeepers are always problematic, even in todays console football games as there always seems to be a sweet spot where the goalie just cant catch the ball.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TMR on 13:36, 20 May 12
Code it for use of two fire buttons (never understood games made for one fire button ... didn't 95% of joysticks have two buttons?!)...

As someone who sold 8-bit joysticks back in the day i can, even though my sales patter for specific sticks has long since been mentally defragmented, say with what i'd call a reasonable degree of certainty that joysticks with two independent buttons were less common than single button sticks.

Some of the big sellers i remember were the Quickshot 2, Python 1M and to a lesser degree Maverick 1, the Cheetah 125 which was the cheapest we sold but usually fell apart after a fortnight, the Competition Pro, the Cruiser, Konix Speedking and again to a lesser degree the Navigator and my personal favourite was the Zipstik; of that list, only the Python and Maverick offered an optional two button mode (labelled as for the Master System but it worked on other 8-bits if memory serves, along with an Amstrad mode which disabled the autofire) and they were usually at the quieter end of the sales charts.

So... this 'ere footy game, is it too early to be mentioned in RG's What's Brewing news items or what? =-)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 16:24, 20 May 12
As someone who sold 8-bit joysticks back in the day i can, even though my sales patter for specific sticks has long since been mentally defragmented, say with what i'd call a reasonable degree of certainty that joysticks with two independent buttons were less common than single button sticks.

Some of the big sellers i remember were the Quickshot 2, Python 1M and to a lesser degree Maverick 1, the Cheetah 125 which was the cheapest we sold but usually fell apart after a fortnight, the Competition Pro, the Cruiser, Konix Speedking and again to a lesser degree the Navigator and my personal favourite was the Zipstik; of that list, only the Python and Maverick offered an optional two button mode (labelled as for the Master System but it worked on other 8-bits if memory serves, along with an Amstrad mode which disabled the autofire) and they were usually at the quieter end of the sales charts.

So... this 'ere footy game, is it too early to be mentioned in RG's What's Brewing news items or what? =-)

I think it's from what years you look at joysticks, by the end of the 80s every joystick had two buttons including most of the ones you mentioned (I have about 3 Konix Speedkings which has two firebuttons, one even with an autofire rah!). Big releases by the end of the 80's and early 90's really had no excuse to make it all work from one firebutton (my recently reviewed Bonanza Bros case in point with the awkward jump mechanism) I feel... but that's just my personal opinion/perspective and gripe probably. :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 16:31, 20 May 12
The AI is definitely going to be the major challenge for any programmer, as having to work out the ball physics(?), goalkeeper, what the team mates are doing and where they are on the pitch as well as the opponents. I noticed that on a lot of the 8 bit foot games, the players end up being bunched up which reminded me of when I was a kid playing football in the playground, where everyone would just rush for the ball. The goalkeepers are always problematic, even in todays console football games as there always seems to be a sweet spot where the goalie just cant catch the ball.

It should hopefully just the case in terms of defensive play -

* a set formation (eg 4 defenders) that have an invisible barrier of how far they can move up/down/left/right independantly
* move in line/towards the ball horizontally
* find which player is nearest the ball and have him home in on it

Attacking play is probably the most hard to get right. It seems most (crap) games have a hit and hope approach finding players hoofing out throw a throw unnecessarily etc.
I guess then...

* code a 'line of sight' in 3 directions or maybe 8 directions if feeling brave for the computer to choose the 'most appropriate' player to pass to
* if it finds none - it hits a long ball up the pitch
* when within 30 yards of the goal - the computer can decide to hit the ball as a shot on goal. Maybe have this generated randomly (50/50)
* other players move about freely moving up the pitch if attacking and spreading apart or moving inside to make runs

You may want to think about the offside rule too ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 16:34, 20 May 12
I watched the World Cup 90 and you were very lucky in the game against Germany :) ! I'm looking for something inbetween a simulation and an arcade and World Cup 90 is very arcadey and a little too pinbally(in my opinion.) It would be nice to have things like through balls etc to set up some more interesting plays as there was quite a lot of bicycle kicks being abused in that game (or maybe that's just because your too damned good!)

Heh yes I was! :D

World Cup 90 is very arcadey, but I'm slightly biased on this I suppose because it was my favourite arcade machine growing up and I was desperate to see a conversion or anything play like it on the Amstrad (and was disappointed to not find it!). Having played it for many many many hours though, there's perhaps some subtleties that are apparent unless you play it for extended time. For me it's the perfect arcade soccer game, I'm sure others will disagree though. Most importantly though it's incredibly good fun and easy to pick up.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 16:37, 20 May 12
One last comment, I think it's important with soccer games being able to score via a variety of methods - the fun is finding these and the suprise/delight in pulling these off (this is why I love World Cup 90 and Taito's Football Champ so much... and also in terms of Amstrad why Emlyn Hughes is far and away the best soccer game due to the crazy ways you can score, Match Day II to an extent as well)

So being able to hit high balls for crosses, lobs, etc really important.

If swerve could be done, WOW! That's what made Microprose Soccer so fab.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 17:14, 20 May 12
As someone who sold 8-bit joysticks back in the day i can, even though my sales patter for specific sticks has long since been mentally defragmented, say with what i'd call a reasonable degree of certainty that joysticks with two independent buttons were less common than single button sticks.

Some of the big sellers i remember were the Quickshot 2, Python 1M and to a lesser degree Maverick 1, the Cheetah 125 which was the cheapest we sold but usually fell apart after a fortnight, the Competition Pro, the Cruiser, Konix Speedking and again to a lesser degree the Navigator and my personal favourite was the Zipstik; of that list, only the Python and Maverick offered an optional two button mode (labelled as for the Master System but it worked on other 8-bits if memory serves, along with an Amstrad mode which disabled the autofire) and they were usually at the quieter end of the sales charts.

So... this 'ere footy game, is it too early to be mentioned in RG's What's Brewing news items or what? =-)

Probably it might be best to have code that works with a megadrive pad as they are cheap and easier to find? I tried a megadrive pad on the CPC (can't remember what game) and though it worked, it wasn't very playable as the second fire button was the start button.

In regards to RG - I haven't found a programmer yet. Arnoldemu is kindly helping out with figuring the scrolling and the sprite data/space, but wont be coding the main game. Until I find some programmers that are interested, along with a demo to see if the game is doable with this amount of animation, it might be best to hold off for a little while.

 
It should hopefully just the case in terms of defensive play -

* a set formation (eg 4 defenders) that have an invisible barrier of how far they can move up/down/left/right independantly
* move in line/towards the ball horizontally
* find which player is nearest the ball and have him home in on it

Attacking play is probably the most hard to get right. It seems most (crap) games have a hit and hope approach finding players hoofing out throw a throw unnecessarily etc.
I guess then...

* code a 'line of sight' in 3 directions or maybe 8 directions if feeling brave for the computer to choose the 'most appropriate' player to pass to
* if it finds none - it hits a long ball up the pitch
* when within 30 yards of the goal - the computer can decide to hit the ball as a shot on goal. Maybe have this generated randomly (50/50)
* other players move about freely moving up the pitch if attacking and spreading apart or moving inside to make runs

You may want to think about the offside rule too ;)


Offside rules, indirect free kicks (whatever the hell that is!) advantage, cautions, substitution and all  other referee and linesman signals are already present.

* other players move about freely moving up the pitch if attacking and spreading apart or moving inside to make runs

This is one area I feel that is very important to help with the atmosphere to make you feel like your in a football match. This is the main reason why I included the walks and skips in the locommtion set as I think this will give game a simulated feel without having to play too much like a simulation.

One last comment, I think it's important with soccer games being able to score via a variety of methods - the fun is finding these and the suprise/delight in pulling these off (this is why I love World Cup 90 and Taito's Football Champ so much... and also in terms of Amstrad why Emlyn Hughes is far and away the best soccer game due to the crazy ways you can score, Match Day II to an extent as well)

So being able to hit high balls for crosses, lobs, etc really important.

If swerve could be done, WOW! That's what made Microprose Soccer so fab.



On the animated demo, it shows the player swerving the ball for the player to jump header. Like you said - it's super important to be able to score in a variety of different ways. :)

Sound wise; General crowd noise (but not sounding like an untuned television), matchday 2 like melodies, beeps and whistles along with some football rhythmic clapping would be nice. I don't think that these would be to ram hungry?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 18:23, 20 May 12
Probably it might be best to have code that works with a megadrive pad as they are cheap and easier to find? I tried a megadrive pad on the CPC (can't remember what game) and though it worked, it wasn't very playable as the second fire button was the start button.
It's not possible without an adapter with some electronic on it.
Many soccer games play really nice with "only" 2 buttons and directions.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TMR on 18:29, 20 May 12
I think it's from what years you look at joysticks, by the end of the 80s every joystick had two buttons including most of the ones you mentioned (I have about 3 Konix Speedkings which has two firebuttons, one even with an autofire rah!).

i was selling them in the late 1980s to the early 1990s and the majority of sticks we flogged were single button. Yes, there are two button versions of sticks like the Speedking but they were labelled as being for Sega consoles so the single button versions outsold them several times over and sticks like the Cheetah 125 or Zipstik outsold all flavours of Speedking combined.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TMR on 18:35, 20 May 12
Probably it might be best to have code that works with a megadrive pad as they are cheap and easier to find? I tried a megadrive pad on the CPC (can't remember what game) and though it worked, it wasn't very playable as the second fire button was the start button.

i seem to remember that the Master System pads and sticks tended to work, but don't quote me on that... me personally, i'd have two sets of joystick routines for one or two button sticks so nobody is left out.

Until I find some programmers that are interested, along with a demo to see if the game is doable with this amount of animation, it might be best to hold off for a little while.

Fair enough. =-)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 19:08, 20 May 12
The Master System Pad work file with a little adapter to invert 2 pins. Else, only 1 button. :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 20:14, 20 May 12
It's not possible without an adapter with some electronic on it.
Many soccer games play really nice with "only" 2 buttons and directions.

Really? Are you sure that you cant just have a code or a patch that just redefines the joypad buttons to work on the CPC? I'm quite sure that they did work fine but the buttons were all mixed up.

i seem to remember that the Master System pads and sticks tended to work, but don't quote me on that... me personally, i'd have two sets of joystick routines for one or two button sticks so nobody is left out.


Yup - makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 21:10, 20 May 12
Really? Are you sure that you cant just have a code or a patch that just redefines the joypad buttons to work on the CPC? I'm quite sure that they did work fine but the buttons were all mixed up.
Megadrive PAD send multiplexed signals.
A/Start or B/C buttons are on the same line, so you can't use more than 2 buttons.
And without decoding the input, the pad send ghost keys to the computer, so you may have games that simply not work. (and arrows under the BASIC)

From http://www.asmtradtoday.com (http://www.asmtradtoday.com) :

(http://www.amstradtoday.com/elements/confort/mdrive/schema2.gif)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 10:10, 21 May 12
i was selling them in the late 1980s to the early 1990s and the majority of sticks we flogged were single button. Yes, there are two button versions of sticks like the Speedking but they were labelled as being for Sega consoles so the single button versions outsold them several times over and sticks like the Cheetah 125 or Zipstik outsold all flavours of Speedking combined.

Gosh, I have no idea where you worked then!!!

The stores I went to in the late 80's all had 2 firebutton + joysticks in. I don't think I've ever saw one for sale and indeed only owned one with only 1 fire button apart from a hand-me-down Konix Speedking. Hell, even the crappy JY1 packaged with the CPC in 1984 had two fire buttons!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: arnoldemu on 10:47, 21 May 12
So... this 'ere footy game, is it too early to be mentioned in RG's What's Brewing news items or what? =-)
I would say yes it is too early. At the moment we've got some great graphics and some mockup screensno code as of yet.


Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TMR on 15:07, 21 May 12
Gosh, I have no idea where you worked then!!!

For one of three indie computer shops in the south east of England, but occasionally i'd chat with suppliers or reps and what we were selling locally wasn't far away from what they were shifting at a national level. The same was true when i got chatting to shop staff whilst visiting friends in Edinburgh, Fife, Liverpool, London, Manchester...

The stores I went to in the late 80's all had 2 firebutton + joysticks in. I don't think I've ever saw one for sale and indeed only owned one with only 1 fire button apart from a hand-me-down Konix Speedking. Hell, even the crappy JY1 packaged with the CPC in 1984 had two fire buttons!

Still working from the late 1980s to early 1990s i've got around twelve Zipstiks, a couple of Competition Pros, (i think) three Cruisers, five or six Quickshot 2s, two Python 1Ms and a Maverick 1 - only the latter two have two independent buttons and it's for the Master System so presumably won't work like the pads apparently don't.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 17:53, 30 May 12
I had stopped following this thread for a while and I just revisited it; the screenshots are gone... anyone can reup them?

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:40, 31 May 12
???Thats weird!!!

I'll upload them again as I have a feeling that the imagehoster may of had some sort of time limit. I did try using some others but they didn't play the animation; they only showed the first frame.

Anybody know a reliable image hoster that is gif animation friendly?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: McKlain on 11:54, 31 May 12
Maybe picasa from google? I have uploaded animated gifs to google plus succesfully.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 15:28, 31 May 12
Imgur.com or min.us are my preferred ones. Or, how about just attaching them to the forum? :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: arnoldemu on 20:10, 03 June 12
btw, I am still working on some more scroll examples this time with a tilemap and real tile gfx. These have been done by sigh.
I took a detour to confirm the scrolling on type 2.
I am also implementing a graphics viewer in my new arnold codebase.


Yes the old windows version had one too, but it seems it was well hidden!!!! (it's on the menu on the debugger, yes the old arnold also had a debugger!)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 22:53, 03 June 12
I was really surprised how long that background took me to stitch back together again!!! At least I now know how much easier the football pitch will be.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 13:49, 05 June 12
Hey, what about those screenshots? Come on, I wanna see!!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:42, 24 June 12
Screenshots are now back up on page 5. (Sorry for the delay.)

I'll be starting the title screen at some point for Nationwide Soccer (unless someone can think of a better name. I'm trying to avoid using the word "football" so not to be confused with the American sport.)

What I would like to know, is what options would people like to see on the menu screen? Would user like to be able to access the skill, speed levels per players?
Would you like to be able to create a football league table starting from the Premier right down to the Vauxhall Conference(does this still exist?), World Cup, Euro Cup, Fa Cup, Scottish National, African Nations Cup etc? What about leagues from other countries like the Italian Series A or the Japan J league?
(I've only taken a quick look at the different leagues around the world.)

Would you like co-op? Would you like to have the option of having direct control over the goalkeeper? Or would you just like to be able to play as the ref?
What would be your ideal "must haves" apart from the usual 1 - 2 player options and redefining keys for 1 or 2 button joysticks.



Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 14:51, 24 June 12

(http://i.imgur.com/3WSLf.gif)

(http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/7tdtlgo3bxbee8see15y.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/EPUp5.gif)

(http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/4km9btgpky02pap4mej.gif)

I don't even like 'professional' football but these look fantastic.  The animation on those sprites is so fluid and realistic you almost forget they're Mode 0 'wide-pixels'
Title: Wow!
Post by: Ace on 16:58, 24 June 12
What I would like to know, is what options would people like to see on the menu screen? Would user like to be able to access the skill, speed levels per players?
Would you like to be able to create a football league table starting from the Premier right down to the Vauxhall Conference(does this still exist?), World Cup, Euro Cup, Fa Cup, Scottish National, African Nations Cup etc? What about leagues from other countries like the Italian Series A or the Japan J league?
(I've only taken a quick look at the different leagues around the world.)

Would you like co-op? Would you like to have the option of having direct control over the goalkeeper? Or would you just like to be able to play as the ref?
All of the above, would be nice, please! Not that we are greedy or so... He he he!

The option to play as ref though... I tend to believe that this, will be the world's first football game, to have such an option!
Go for It!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 18:58, 24 June 12
Looks good potential!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 20:17, 24 June 12
I'll be starting the title screen at some point for Nationwide Soccer (unless someone can think of a better name. I'm trying to avoid using the word "football" so not to be confused with the American sport.)

I don't know if 'Nationwide Soccer' sounds like a 'must have' game from the title.  I think it lacks something.  Also I would think a computer game being based around a sport incredibly popular in Britain being developed for an old computer that is also British should really use the British word for the sport.  The first part 'Nationwide' sounds British enough but for some reason makes me think of a wet, rainy, saturday afternoon (which I suppose is in itself very British) but it doesn't jump out as sounding like a fun game.
I used to have International Superstar Soccer (the predecessor to the modern Pro Evo series) on the SNES and I remember thinking at the time if it was just called 'International Soccer' it would sound somewhat mundane and not seem a big deal when you see the name in shops, but the word 'Superstar' in there seemed to give it more of a hook.  There's plenty of football related words you can use in a title like Premier, Champion(ship), League (and loads of others I expect, like I said I'm not a football fan so an actual fan probably knows more words), just a matter of choosing one that hasn't been done I suppose. 

Anyways it's up to you.  Your game.  I love those sprites either way.  I hope some of this post made sense.  Somehow flicking through five tabs writing different replies at same time on various websites.   :o
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:04, 24 June 12
I don't know if 'Nationwide Soccer' sounds like a 'must have' game from the title.  I think it lacks something.  Also I would think a computer game being based around a sport incredibly popular in Britain being developed for an old computer that is also British should really use the British word for the sport.  The first part 'Nationwide' sounds British enough but for some reason makes me think of a wet, rainy, saturday afternoon (which I suppose is in itself very British) but it doesn't jump out as sounding like a fun game.

Yeah - it does sound a bit dry! :D

Nationwide Soccer is now "Super Hotshot Soccer" for the time being until something better comes up.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: steve on 23:35, 24 June 12
Call it "Intergalactic Soccer" and you could have aliens in the teams, these could have special abilities like camouflage so they are invisible on the grass  :laugh: .
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: McKlain on 23:47, 24 June 12
I wonder, why use the word "soccer" in europe? We all know what football is, a sport that you play with your feet and a ball. No hands.  ;D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:26, 25 June 12
Call it "Intergalactic Soccer" and you could have aliens in the teams, these could have special abilities like camouflage so they are invisible on the grass  :laugh: .

 :D ...as the ball floats away into space.

I wonder, why use the word "soccer" in europe? We all know what football is, a sport that you play with your feet and a ball. No hands.  ;D


I've never cared for the "Soccer vs Football" naming debate; however - if any of you guys can come out with any cool names involving the word football, then post them.

(I actually think that "Super Hotshot Soccer" sounds quite cool.... ;D )





Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Bryce on 10:48, 25 June 12
Champions Premier-League Challenge (CPC).

Bryce.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: emuola on 12:31, 25 June 12
How about Kick *ss Soccer (referring to Kick Off series) *sorry could not resist* :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 22:47, 25 June 12
'Sliding tackle'
'The Beautiful Game'
'4-4-2'
'Jumper's for Goal Posts! ( Dream Soccer )'
 :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ivarf on 22:57, 25 June 12
Sugar Soccer!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 23:50, 25 June 12
From the german point of view a football game from England should be named "Kick and Rush". Right, Mr Beckenbauer? :D And the most important thing would be penalties. ;-)

To be honest: I really like this project and I am already thinking about useful suggestions.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 00:01, 26 June 12
Would love an option for mode where football is actually grenade like in the Bulldog Blighty Sensible Soccer (with Cannon Fodder sprites) that was on an old Amiga magazine cover disk.  Real football would be more exciting if the 'ball' occasionally flashed and then exploded, taking out any nearby players or goalkeepers like in that demo.  Then those crazy fans really would have an excuse for those World War comparisons they seem to bring up especially when it's England vs Germany...
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 13:52, 26 June 12
Carnivac's got a point there, it'd be nice to do that. Maybe not even random, but every x seconds that you got the ball in your possession.


As for the title, I'm glad to see some of the suggestions having a retro touch in them. I'd go for something like that.


Two of the pics are already down - can someone upload them here as attachments instead of a stupid image hoster?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 14:05, 26 June 12
Two of the pics are already down - can someone upload them here as attachments instead of a stupid image hoster?

 :( Attachments can't be viewed by guests and I prefer lurking here rather than logging in if I have nothing to say.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 14:10, 26 June 12
:( Attachments can't be viewed by guests and I prefer lurking here rather than logging in if I have nothing to say.



Just for you, I enabled attachments for guests. To be fair though, it makes much more sense for guests to not be able to access attachments than *everyone* not being able to see them :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 14:14, 26 June 12
Just for you, I enabled attachments for guests. To be fair though, it makes much more sense for guests to not be able to access attachments than *everyone* not being able to see them :D

Thanks.  There's been many occasions I've been looking for a file or image and found it on a forum I bloody had to sign up to just to get that file.  I hate signing up to sites I have no real intention of staying on.  I still get 'birthday' and 'christmas' emails from some forums I joined up 10 years ago just to get some file or whatever and even though I'm fairly sure I deleted my profile where possible I still seem to get the emails.   I do prefer lurking and being able to see an image without having to log in is likely to get me logged in anyways to comment whereas often if I can't see what's there I lost interest and wander off.  I can understand why some attachments perhaps need to be restricted to members only in some cases though.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 14:20, 26 June 12
The problem is, images are handled as attachments, so it's all or nothing. But yes, I think that, although contrary to what one may think, it makes no sense withholding attachments; there's no way someone will start participating just because they signed up for that one file.


I've got to check the Downloads system though, wouldn't want that being leeched by guests.


Now, can someone up the piccies here? :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:49, 27 June 12
The pics seem to be working apart from the boxed error message. I'll try to upload the pics using the cpcwiki website tools again, but I didn't have much luck for some reason.

Would love an option for mode where football is actually grenade like in the Bulldog Blighty Sensible Soccer (with Cannon Fodder sprites) that was on an old Amiga magazine cover disk.  Real football would be more exciting if the 'ball' occasionally flashed and then exploded, taking out any nearby players or goalkeepers like in that demo.  Then those crazy fans really would have an excuse for those World War comparisons they seem to bring up especially when it's England vs Germany...


The exploding footballs is a bit too quirky for this type of game. (funny though!)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 11:55, 27 June 12
The pics seem to be working apart from the boxed error message. I'll try to upload the pics using the cpcwiki website tools again, but I didn't have much luck for some reason.
 

The exploding footballs is a bit too quirky for this type of game. (funny though!)




No need to go to the wiki, just attach them here. Otherwise just send me an email (gmail, krakout) and I'll do it :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 15:06, 01 July 12
So far we have.....

footie fever
Slide n Tackle
4-4-2
Super Hotshot Soccer
Soccer Hotshots
The Beautiful Game(.biz)
Kick and Rush
Kickass Soccer

Champions Premier-League Challenge (CPC) - might not work as the game may support different nations.

Any other names?

Also any decisions on the questions below?

What I would like to know, is what options would people like to see on the menu screen? Would user like to be able to access the skill, speed levels per players?
Would you like to be able to create a football league table starting from the Premier right down to the Vauxhall Conference(does this still exist?), World Cup, Euro Cup, Fa Cup, Scottish National, African Nations Cup etc? What about leagues from other countries like the Italian Series A or the Japan J league?
(I've only taken a quick look at the different leagues around the world.)

Would you like co-op? Would you like to have the option of having direct control over the goalkeeper? Or would you just like to be able to play as the ref?
What would be your ideal "must haves" apart from the usual 1 - 2 player options and redefining keys for 1 or 2 button joysticks.

I'm looking to wrap up the splash/options screen "soon-ish" as these are the only graphics left that I need to do, to have the the visuals 100% complete.

Also - arnoldemu is kindly helping out setting the screen and scrolling, but not the main AI of the game itself. Are there any AI programmers out there who want to help out with bits and pieces? Please be aware that I'm not expecting any programmer to take on the whole project by themselves (we all have our own individual projects that we want to get done in our lives!) but if anyone wants to chip in bits and pieces of data, donate a bit code here and there, or spend an hour or 2 investigating some crazy AI  logic, then please do.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ivarf on 17:26, 02 July 12
Yeah Sugar Soccer!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 17:40, 02 July 12
I kinda like the CPC acronym... :(
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: SyX on 18:50, 02 July 12
Road to Brazil 2014!!! ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: beaker on 21:01, 02 July 12
I kinda like the CPC acronym... :(

Commodore Players Championship? Joking  ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 21:13, 02 July 12
Yeah Sugar Soccer!

Alan Sugars Footballers Apprentice! Seriously though - definitetly will not be having anything "sugar" name related!

Road to Brazil 2014!!! ;)


It's a little too specific in case the game may offer other football cups such as the Euro etc....

Commodore Players Championship? Joking  ;)


 :D


Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ivarf on 23:13, 02 July 12

sorry..off topic.  Put most of my post in a spoiler tag to 'hide' it so it don't stand out.
Sounds great! Would love to see the end result if you teamed up with him and created new classics in tradition of Nick Bruty and David Perry, John Ritman and Bernie Drummond or Mr Amstrad (John Brandwood) with Mark Jones Senior.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 09:52, 03 July 12
Sounds great! Would love to see the end result if you teamed up with him and created new classics in tradition of Nick Bruty and David Perry, John Ritman and Bernie Drummond or Mr Amstrad (John Brandwood) with Mark Jones Senior.

Would be cool but Axelay's very busy with other projects at present.  I very much appreciate him taking the time to answer my PM's about what I can and can't do on the CPC and questions about memory conservation and how other games may have achieved certain things.  :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:30, 05 July 12
Okay:

Super Hotshot Soccer: The beautiful game! (digitized speech when title appears?)

Selection Screen:

Create Tournament:
Quick Match
Design Tournament Table*

1 Player

2 Player
Vs
Co-op

Options:
Single Button Controller
2 Button Controller
Redefine Keys
Goal Keeper Control On/Off


* When designing tournament table, the player will type the name of the tournament, countries (or teams) and players. This will give the player free range to create any tournament style they want.


Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 12:23, 05 July 12
Sounds nice to me, though I'd think that "hotshot" has negative connotations?


About the menu, I'd add a middle option - quick tournament. Just have something already set up, like the Premier League or the Champions League?


Also, a database with appropriate (and maybe funny) names would be nice, so that if I chose to setup a Greek championship, for instance, I wouldn't have to type all the player names in but have the program auto-suggest them, like "papapapadopoulos" and the likes :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 17:52, 05 July 12
Sounds nice to me, though I'd think that "hotshot" has negative connotations?

Does it?  In what way?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 18:54, 05 July 12
My bad; it's just that I've mostly seen it used in an ironic way...
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: beaker on 19:48, 05 July 12
My bad; it's just that I've mostly seen it used in an ironic way...

As in the Charlie Sheen movies?  ;D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:04, 05 July 12
Sounds nice to me, though I'd think that "hotshot" has negative connotations?


About the menu, I'd add a middle option - quick tournament. Just have something already set up, like the Premier League or the Champions League?


Also, a database with appropriate (and maybe funny) names would be nice, so that if I chose to setup a Greek championship, for instance, I wouldn't have to type all the player names in but have the program auto-suggest them, like "papapapadopoulos" and the likes :D

Quick tournament - I was thinking that on the "Design Tournament Table" it would already come with a default table that already has a list of teams and player names. This of course you would be able to edit in order to design your own tournament, or you could just use the default league/cup and start a game straight away. We could always have 2 defaults - League Match and Cup Match which would cover all bases.

I forgot to mention that there will also be 4 types of pitch colours to play on. These should be chosen on the quick match.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 02:08, 06 July 12
When do we get to sample it?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:11, 06 July 12
When do we get to sample it?

Sample's for the title screen will be worked on gradually as I have to reorganize some of the animations for the beat em up game over the weekend.

If your talking about samples for the football gameplay itself; nothing until an AI programmmer decided to take it on.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 22:05, 06 July 12
Would a 4-player mode be possible? Two on the keys and two with joystick. Could be funny on parties.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 04:34, 07 July 12
Would a 4-player mode be possible? Two on the keys and two with joystick. Could be funny on parties.

I think there would be serious problems in a 4 player match, as the cpc joystick/keyboard controls often end up interfering with the other players.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 20:58, 07 July 12
*Is* there a game supporting simultaneous 4-player play on the CPC?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 21:32, 07 July 12
*Is* there a game supporting simultaneous 4-player play on the CPC?

There were many 4 player games made by codemasters such as BMX Simulator 2 (4 player), Grand Prix simulator 2 (3 player I think), Jet Ski Simulator and also a football game too. The interference weren't to bad on the racing games., but I'm not too sure how the 4 player mode faired on the football game.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 12:20, 08 July 12
Ah yes, I had forgotten about Codemasters.


Well, technically mayb it would be possible, but would it really be worthwhile?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 18:52, 08 July 12
Ah yes, I had forgotten about Codemasters.


Well, technically mayb it would be possible, but would it really be worthwhile?

Personally - I don't think it's worth the programming headache. Also with the controls being a major issue, it would probably make the game far too frustrating to play.

It would be better to use that programming time for something else.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: steve on 00:21, 09 July 12
If there is a need for two or four player games, it would be better for each player to have their own machines all linked by vn96, the machines are cheap enough now.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 00:53, 09 July 12
If there is a need for two or four player games, it would be better for each player to have their own machines all linked by vn96, the machines are cheap enough now.
I agree with that. Having had the same idea. But in reality you can do this only at meetings. Most people suffer space limitations (I don't know why, but that's what they tell...). If s/o sells his CPC to have more space on Desk.... don't expect em to get a 2nd machine.
However... I have four computers running in my computing room in Munich. Three of them are CPCs, and I did some kind of experiments with a network too. But IMO the CPC-Booster is the better alternative. The VN96 needs a whole lot of CPU time - a critical thing in games.
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 15:12, 09 July 12
Clearly the solution is to have a serial or parallel link from the CPC to your PC, and then a bit of software on the PC to map between the PC's internet connection and the CPC's data. Maybe the software could perform "CPC discovery" as well, to find CPCers online to play with!


Then the game can either: Sync internal 1p/2p game state with the other CPC, or transmit virtual movements between CPCs. The idea is to try and not have too much overhead in the code on the CPC side of things.


So for a Super Sprint style game, you would be transmitting something along the lines of P1x,P1y,P1r, P1s, and receiving P2x,P2y,P2r,P2s (player x,y,rotation, state (crashed, health, score, etc)). If a packet is lost or dropped, no big deal. Latency would be an issue, both ends would need low ping - might not be worthwhile.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 18:02, 09 July 12
If I need a PC to link the CPC to the internet, then there is no reason not to use the PC completely for everything, right??
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 18:23, 09 July 12
I think when you're theorising about connecting two entire CPC setups and possibly even a PC in there it's best to just stick with a 2 player game and have the 4 players just play as seperate teams in a tournament.  A four player connected mode like those theories would get even less used than the PlayStation 2's network adaptor (I use that example as I've bought PS3 HD versions of PS2 game series' recently such as Ratchet & Clank that have a multiplayer online mode from the PS2 that I never played cos nobody I knew including myself owned a PS2 Network Adaptor whereas they get much play now because every PS3 has network capabilities).  Doesn't sound worth the effort for the few people who might ever use it.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: ralferoo on 18:43, 09 July 12
The problem is R9=0 is not compatible with CRTC 2 is my memory is good.Playing with R9 values on a character based rendering is good idea anyway.If i remember well , X-Out used R9=5 for example.
This is why I think we need a wiki page for CRTC tricks. I've seen this said many times, but it's not true. I know my demo that uses r9=0 works fine on every CPC I own (and was actually working on CRTC 2 before I managed to get CRTC 0 working)...

I definitely had problems when I was trying to use r4=0 and r9=0 at the same time on CRTC 2, but certainly r9=0 alone is fine.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 18:56, 09 July 12
I definitely had problems when I was trying to use r4=0 and r9=0 at the same time on CRTC 2, but certainly r9=0 alone is fine.
yes it's definitely r4=0 and r9=0 at the same time that is problematic.
other combinations work fine. I've tested that.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 19:16, 09 July 12
I'm going to test that , if this is correct that will be very usefull for my current project, thx !
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:37, 09 July 12
I tried to setup a split for crtc type 2 where it goes via vertical adjust time to go into r9=0 and r4=0.

so you need 2 areas of vertical adjust, where you switch into and out of r9=0, r4=0.

I didn't get the timing perfect so it didn't work, I need to do more tests.

I *think* I also had r9=0, r4=0, r5=1 working. but that's not good, because you have a line of border between each :(

I think the crtc is latching some stuff, so you need to work with it and not against it.

the idea being that going into vertical adjust, allows you to modify stuff while it's doing that.

(latch means it remembers some comparison, so even if you change some values it still remembers it).

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 12:11, 10 July 12
This is why I think we need a wiki page for CRTC tricks.



Cool! Can you write it? I could help with the wiki part :)
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: fano on 14:05, 10 July 12
That really works , tested on a MC6845P, UM6845 (supposed to be a type 0 but demos find a type 2!) and HD6845SP , just need to test it on a UM6845R, Plus and type 4.
Thanks a lot ,you make my day !

ralferoo is right, we need a wiki page about CRTC as there are a lot of articles (mainly in french) everywhere but that would interesting to share all this knowledge on only one page.When you start to deal with CRTC , it seems so complicated and obscure and that would be usefull.I can help a bit on some basic things (adressing,basic split screen) if needed (and if someone feels able to correct my engrish)


I tried to setup a split for crtc type 2 where it goes via vertical adjust time to go into r9=0 and r4=0.

so you need 2 areas of vertical adjust, where you switch into and out of r9=0, r4=0.

I didn't get the timing perfect so it didn't work, I need to do more tests.

I *think* I also had r9=0, r4=0, r5=1 working. but that's not good, because you have a line of border between each :(

I think the crtc is latching some stuff, so you need to work with it and not against it.

the idea being that going into vertical adjust, allows you to modify stuff while it's doing that.

(latch means it remembers some comparison, so even if you change some values it still remembers it).

Luckily my problem was not so complex.There are 3 split screens , 2 regular with R9=7 and one with 16 lines with R9=0 (before that was 8*R9=1) and 2 lines with R9=7 so i never use R4=0.The problem for me was to save memory with linear addressing on theses 16 lines (score panel) instead of have 2 blocks of 8 lines.
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: arnoldemu on 14:28, 10 July 12
nice, my theory worked. so crtc 2 is no longer the poorer crtc ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 14:45, 10 July 12
Let's say some things are now accessible for all CRTC  ;)

That means too you can choose to have a linear addressing between 2 lines (R9=0,R4=1) instead to have a 2K gap between 2 lines (R9=1,R4=0), that may be usefull in some cases.

Speaking about 64K games in another thread, made just me think it could be usefull to save a bit of memory for theses too as we can have a main screen with R9=5 (12K simple buffer,24K double) and a panel with R9=0 (2K max).You can have for example a mode 1 resolution like 256*224 (192(main)+32(panel)) for 14K (26K double buffer and hard scrolling compatible) and keep linear addressing.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 18:06, 10 July 12
Can you advice a demo / (probably no game there...) which uses the R9=0 in a way that has no unwanted artefacts? Sorry, what I search is an example that runs on pretty much everything (maybe even other monitors / TVs). Any idea?
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:04, 11 July 12
Let's say some things are now accessible for all CRTC  ;)

That means too you can choose to have a linear addressing between 2 lines (R9=0,R4=1) instead to have a 2K gap between 2 lines (R9=1,R4=0), that may be usefull in some cases.

Speaking about 64K games in another thread, made just me think it could be usefull to save a bit of memory for theses too as we can have a main screen with R9=5 (12K simple buffer,24K double) and a panel with R9=0 (2K max).You can have for example a mode 1 resolution like 256*224 (192(main)+32(panel)) for 14K (26K double buffer and hard scrolling compatible) and keep linear addressing.

The "bit of memory" that can be saved - how much are we talking? Is it dependant on the type of game or is it a dedicated amount of memory thats saved regardless of the game type?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 12:15, 11 July 12
That may varies as using linear addressing helps to memory optimisation but the gain is not huge , something like 1K, maybe 1,5K in the best case (better than nothing, 1K is already 64tiles !).On a complete screen configuration like i wrote before (R9=5), compared to a classic configuration with hardware scrolling (R9=7), you can save up to 8K if you use double buffer (4K for simple buffer).
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:39, 15 December 12
Hi guys,

I'm going to start on the front end which is the title and option screen. I'm still thinking about ways to achieve multi directional 1 "fine" pixel scrolling and wondering if it's possible to achieve this by scrolling the football pitch lines?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 16:03, 25 April 13


(http://i.imgur.com/3WSLf.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/3WSLf.gif)



(http://i.imgur.com/EPUp5.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/EPUp5.gif)


For the past few months, I have been thinking about a method for scrolling on this game and came up with something. I don't know if this has been tested before but I would be very grateful if some could let me know.

Left and right smooth pixel scrolling: Swapping scrolling layers.

3 layers. These are the white lines of the pitch with each layer having it's own unique scroll value. The green part of the pitch should just be a static image with the white lines scrolling to give the illusion of a moving field:

Layer 1 = Normal software scrolling at 4 pixels (2 mode 0 pixels).
Layer 2= Continuos scroll layer at 2 pixels (1 mode 0 pixel). This scrolls from left to right.
Layer 3=Continuos scroll layer at 2 pixels (1 mode 0 pixel). This scrolls from right to left.

These layers would have to be active at all times, but only one of these layers can be visible at any one time depending on the action happening in the game:

Ball is rolling slowly to the right =  Swap to Layer 2
Ball is rolling quickly to the left =Swap to Layer 1
Ball is rolling slowly to the right = Swap to layer 3
Ball is stationary =Swap to Layer 1
Ball is in 3/4 of the pitch area near the goal = Swap to Layer 1.........

So the layers of the white lines would be constantly swapping.

Is this possible?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: EgoTrip on 16:39, 25 April 13
No idea about the technical aspects sorry, but the screenshots look really good. I hope you can get this finished.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 18:51, 25 April 13
Are you using Mode 0? Yes? So just use two layers for scrolling in X. Because you only need one pixel difference. And you can move the screen in X for one byte by using one particular CRTC register. And for using in two byte steps you use like usual the CRTC address registers.
 
So two layers are enough! Try not to make it toooo complex.
 
 
Good luck!!!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 19:02, 25 April 13
Are you using Mode 0? Yes? So just use two layers for scrolling in X. Because you only need one pixel difference. And you can move the screen in X for one byte by using one particular CRTC register. And for using in two byte steps you use like usual the CRTC address registers.
 
So two layers are enough! Try not to make it toooo complex.
 
 
Good luck!!!

Yes - the game is in mode 0.
So just to clarify your suggesting in using 2 layers and not 3:

Layer 1 = Normal software scrolling at 4 pixels (2 mode 0 pixels).
Layer 2= Continuous scroll layer at 2 pixels (1 mode 0 pixel). This scrolls from left to right and from right to left. (?)

So the only thing that would be needed is to make sure that both layers have the same starting point when they swap over, so that it looks continuous.

Is this correct?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 19:06, 25 April 13
Didn't even think that complex.
 
Both layers scroll two pixel everytime.
 
But layer one shows pixels 1,2,3,4,5,6 and so on
While layer two shows pixels 2,3,4,5,6,7 and so on
 
The difference between them is exactly one pixel.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 19:23, 25 April 13
Okay I think I understand.

Layer 1 =1,3,5,7,9
Layer 2=  2,4,6,8,10

So all the inbetweens are filled giving the illusion of 1 pixel scrolling :) .

I'm quite sure that the animation demo I did on this top page is moving 1 pixel and not 1/2 pixel. I did a demo of both but can't remember which version I posted...
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:54, 25 April 13
No, I believe TFM is saying that you use 2 blocks of 16k.

One has an image shifted by 2 pixels compared to the other.

So to scroll you need to switch between these screens AND use CRTC R3 for the byte scroll AND use hardware scroll.

So the disadvantage here, it's 128k only if you want to double buffer.

If you can get away with using the border time to draw the sprites, then you don't need double buffer.

So:

R3 not-adjust && Unshifted
R3 not-adjust && Shifted
R3 adjust & unshifted && scrolled by one char
R3 adjust & shifted  && scrolled by one char
and loop.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ralferoo on 19:57, 25 April 13
One thing I'd recommend though is actually not using the byte-wise 2-pixel scrolling trick. The problem is that it looks awful on most LCDs. The trick relies on changing the HSYNC length by 1 character so that the PLL adjusts by half a character. However, LCD displays tend to react to these changes quicker than CRTs and so the result is very jerky when viewed on an LCD. So, it's a good trick but you'll limit your audience to those that can run on a real machine...

With that in mind, I'd recommend either having 4 images each offset by a pixel and changing the CRTC address as TFM described. The other option is just to byte wise erase the almost vertical lines and redraw them each frame and just have normal double buffering.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 20:10, 25 April 13
@Arnoldemu: Only ONE pixel (assume you did a type).
 
Four images?? No! That's what we want to omit!
 
How to scroll>
 
- show screen 0 (pixels start at pixel 0)
- show screen 1 (pixels start at pixel 1)
- show screen 0, but use R3 to shift a byte forward
- show screen 1, but use R3 to shift a byte forward
 
Next cycle...
- show screen 0, no R3, but CRTC address +1 (two bytes)
- show screen 1, no R3, but CRTC address +1 (two bytes)
... and so on...
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:05, 26 April 13
No, I believe TFM is saying that you use 2 blocks of 16k.

One has an image shifted by 2 pixels compared to the other.

So to scroll you need to switch between these screens AND use CRTC R3 for the byte scroll AND use hardware scroll.

So the disadvantage here, it's 128k only if you want to double buffer.

If you can get away with using the border time to draw the sprites, then you don't need double buffer.

So:

R3 not-adjust && Unshifted
R3 not-adjust && Shifted
R3 adjust & unshifted && scrolled by one char
R3 adjust & shifted  && scrolled by one char
and loop.


Yes - it's definitely 128kb. Are there any examples of this being done?

However, LCD displays tend to react to these changes quicker than CRTs and so the result is very jerky when viewed on an LCD. So, it's a good trick but you'll limit your audience to those that can run on a real machine...


Hmmm....that is something to think about.

@Arnoldemu: Only ONE pixel (assume you did a type).
 
Four images?? No! That's what we want to omit!
 
How to scroll>
 
- show screen 0 (pixels start at pixel 0)
- show screen 1 (pixels start at pixel 1)
- show screen 0, but use R3 to shift a byte forward
- show screen 1, but use R3 to shift a byte forward
 
Next cycle...
- show screen 0, no R3, but CRTC address +1 (two bytes)
- show screen 1, no R3, but CRTC address +1 (two bytes)
... and so on...
 


Are there any examples of programs using this method?

Here is "mode 0" 1 pixel scroll at 25fps

(http://i.imgur.com/yMhhjRL.gif)

..and here it is at 18fps

(http://i.imgur.com/fvQX5gZ.gif)

Regarding the crowds in the background, maybe the screen can be split into 3 sections: The crowd, playing area and score. The crowd could just software scroll slowly at 2 mode 0 pixels though it may give some weird parallax effect, or alternatively I just get rid of them(though it would be shame to lose them)
The sprites are 16x16, so I'm wondering how much of a burden this would be on the CPC....

This is incredibly interesting! I would really like to see this method in action to assess it's feasibility.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 01:48, 26 April 13
With these mockups I'd be tempted not to scroll the screen, but to try out redrawing the tilemap to make it scroll, especially if you went for 25hz.  This technique was recently discussed in relation to Shinobi and also Kick Off on the RA podcast.

You don't have to redraw much of the green pitch, so really only the top and bottom rows and the white lines/goal have to be done.  The pitch tiles are simple too so could be highly optimised.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:24, 26 April 13
@Arnoldemu: Only ONE pixel (assume you did a type).
 
Four images?? No! That's what we want to omit!
 
4 screens if you want double buffer AND 1 pixel scroll in mode 0.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:39, 26 April 13
With these mockups I'd be tempted not to scroll the screen, but to try out redrawing the tilemap to make it scroll, especially if you went for 25hz.  This technique was recently discussed in relation to Shinobi and also Kick Off on the RA podcast.

You don't have to redraw much of the green pitch, so really only the top and bottom rows and the white lines/goal have to be done.  The pitch tiles are simple too so could be highly optimised.

The green pitch wouldn't have to move as it would just be a static image.
So your saying to redraw the tilemap for the crowds?

4 screens if you want double buffer AND 1 pixel scroll in mode 0.


So how CPC intensive would this be and how difficult would this be to test?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 12:07, 26 April 13
The green pitch wouldn't have to move as it would just be a static image.
So your saying to redraw the tilemap for the crowds?

Yes, and the white lines on the pitch.

Interestingly, Dino Dini said this is how he did it for the ST version of Kick Off - it doesn't actually scroll, he redraws the white lines each frame (and also uses vertical scanline splits to draw the different shades of grass) - this is why there's no centre circle because his routine took too long...! 

I know your game is sideways and not top-down, but the principal is the same as you've got large areas of the screen where nothing really needs changing.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 16:07, 26 April 13
Okay. Just to clarify so that I dont get too confused, we now have these opitons to attain 1 pixel scrolling for this particular game:

1) 2 layers of the white lines with one of them being shifted by 2 pixels. Scroll these screens by swapping the layers and using hardware scrolling and R3. But R3 isn't compatible with all monitors so this could cause problems for those not playing on real hardware. (But isn't this a problem only if the sprites are drawn on top in a particular way and with double buffering?)

2) Use 4 images of the white lines each offset by 1 pixel and use the technique above to include double buffer and 1 pixel scroll.

3) ralferoo "Byte wise erase the almost vertical lines and redraw them each frame and just have normal double buffering."  I'm guessing that this is similar to redbox option with the added addition of redrawing the tilemaps of the crowds in the background?

4) My convoluted and not so viable option (which is looking pretty ridiculous compared to the other ideas)

So - which of these 4 options would produce the following with the best possible results:

1) The fastest!

2) Easy implementation

3) Cheap to use/less CPU strain

4) Double buffering (would people be okay with flicky sprites on smooth 1 pixel scrolling to save memory/cpu time or would the preference be to have both smooth sprites on smooth 1 pixel scrolling?)

5) Crowds in the background that doesn't impact on performance or create a complicated issue when in conjuction with the 1 pixel scroll.

Are there any other options with these ideas (replacing R3 with R5 or R9 etc)?

This is looking very promising indeed and I feel that were about to enter into something new :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 19:11, 26 April 13
4 screens if you want double buffer AND 1 pixel scroll in mode 0.

Why double buffer? There's no need for that. Just use two screens in 50 fps. That's not a problem since you cn scroll and most of the screen stays static. Green stays green. It would be a bad idea to redraw screens btw. The only thing you have to do is to draw some very little player sprites and that can be done in 50 fps. The point here is: IT'S NOT OVERSCAN - SO IT'S QUICK :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:12, 27 April 13

Why double buffer? There's no need for that. Just use two screens in 50 fps. That's not a problem since you cn scroll and most of the screen stays static. Green stays green. It would be a bad idea to redraw screens btw. The only thing you have to do is to draw some very little player sprites and that can be done in 50 fps. The point here is: IT'S NOT OVERSCAN - SO IT'S QUICK :)

So what option are you referring too out of the 4?



And can we really achieve a frame rate of 50fps with around 16 sprites and the ball on screen? I opted for 25fps in the demo posted, as I thought that it would be better to have a lesser frame rate that is constant, rather than a higher frame rate that keeps dropping in and out and isn't stable. The 18fps is looking rather choppy and I would like to avoid using that one if possible.

Though the sprites are only 16x16, there's going to have to be at least around 16 on field at one time:

Ref
Linesman
ball
6 players on each side
Goal keeper.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 20:25, 27 April 13
4 screens if you want double buffer AND 1 pixel scroll in mode 0.
No only two screens for smooth 1 pixel scrolling, at least that's the way I do it. (At least as long as one screen is not bigger than 16 KB). How? See one of my previous posts.
 
 
And can we really achieve a frame rate of 50fps with around 16 sprites and the ball on screen? I opted for 25fps in the demo posted
Ok, depends heavily on the sprite routines. If you use masked sprites which conserve the background you may have to use 25 fps, but for sprites without masking and backgrouns preservation (just redraw the lines f.e) you can make it with 50 fps. However, you will see at the end.
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 22:41, 27 April 13
No idea about the technical aspects sorry, but the screenshots look really good. I hope you can get this finished.



^^what he said.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:22, 27 April 13
No only two screens for smooth 1 pixel scrolling, at least that's the way I do it. (At least as long as one screen is not bigger than 16 KB). How? See one of my previous posts.
 
 Ok, depends heavily on the sprite routines. If you use masked sprites which conserve the background you may have to use 25 fps, but for sprites without masking and backgrouns preservation (just redraw the lines f.e) you can make it with 50 fps. However, you will see at the end.

There's no masking involved with the sprites as they will just sit on top of the background. One of the things that I forgot to mention was that the ball will need a shadow which will be just a tiny black oval shape.
As long as the frame rate is consistent, I dont mind whether it's 50fps or 25fps.

It's looking like option 1 as I'm gettin gthe impression that it's seems simpler and lets cpu intensive.
So how would the goal posts be handled? It's different from the lines, but maybe it could use the method that redbox suggested of somehow redrawing the tilemaps like you would with the crowd.

Yes, and the white lines on the pitch.

Interestingly, Dino Dini said this is how he did it for the ST version of Kick Off - it doesn't actually scroll, he redraws the white lines each frame (and also uses vertical scanline splits to draw the different shades of grass) - this is why there's no centre circle because his routine took too long...! 

I know your game is sideways and not top-down, but the principal is the same as you've got large areas of the screen where nothing really needs changing.

I was looking at the St version of Sensible Soccer which has the centre circle and also the semi circle for the goal. It makes me wonder what they did to get that working.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 01:24, 28 April 13
Are the extra sprites really necessary-The linesmen etc , will this consume fluidity etc? I have zero knowledge on programming but was interested to know.
It's Looking lovely btw and I look forward to its release.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 07:37, 28 April 13
(http://i.imgur.com/yMhhjRL.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/yMhhjRL.gif)
My 2 technical cents after seeing this  ;D
I think using 3 splits screen would be interesting.One for the upper image that have a lot details but that is small.Here you can use for example R9=
3 to have 4 lines characters so 4*2K for theses graphics that covers all the field with 1 pixel offset.For main area, i think some software stuff would be enough as there are simple graphics you can compile easily to get more speed, especially if you use 128K (i'd say some specialised tiles engine like R-Type's one would be able to).For score , a fixed split would suffice.With 16*16 sprites (7*16 mode 0) , i think that would be enough to reach 25fps.To be honnest , using some "parallax" effet on white line would be possible too at 25fps but maybe a problem for gameplay (and maybe not visualy interesting)


Depends what "pixel" you're talking about.
The R-Type scrolling is "one pixel" in mode0, which is still 4 pixels in mode2. :laugh: 

wasn't C64 able to scroll at "fine pixels" with large pixels ?
I missed this one , so one year later :P
One pixel is one pixel , I know you still need to improve your CPC knowledge so you need to know CPC/Plus is not able to get subpixel move  :-*  (maybe some will find objection)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 11:44, 28 April 13
Wot, no AMSTRAD or CPCWiki banners in the background? :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:23, 28 April 13
Are the extra sprites really necessary-The linesmen etc , will this consume fluidity etc? I have zero knowledge on programming but was interested to know.
It's Looking lovely btw and I look forward to its release.

Having a linesman and ref, really does give a much more "football" feeling which I felt a lot of CPC footy games were missing. For instance, though Emlyn Hughes International Soccer, plays much nicer than Matchday 2, the atmosphere of MD2 with the crowds in the background along with the crowd noises, creates a much more realistic feeling of a football match than EHIS.
I think that adding a linesman and ref would further enhance the football experience, as well as trying something that hadn't been seen much in an 8 bit footy game. I'm also wanting to implement things like handballs and diving in the game.

My 2 technical cents after seeing this  ;D
I think using 3 splits screen would be interesting.One for the upper image that have a lot details but that is small.Here you can use for example R9=
3 to have 4 lines characters so 4*2K for theses graphics that covers all the field with 1 pixel offset.For main area, i think some software stuff would be enough as there are simple graphics you can compile easily to get more speed, especially if you use 128K (i'd say some specialised tiles engine like R-Type's one would be able to).For score , a fixed split would suffice.With 16*16 sprites (7*16 mode 0) , i think that would be enough to reach 25fps.To be honnest , using some "parallax" effet on white line would be possible too at 25fps but maybe a problem for gameplay (and maybe not visualy interesting)


Yeah - I dont think that the parallaxing lines would offer anything to the game.

On the demo the lines are an actual graphic, but I'm wondering if this is something that would make sense to be drawn within the code itself, or maybe even combine the two principles. For instance, maybe we could have 1 layer of graphic lines and the other as lines drawn by the code?

Would this offer more control as well as being faster and consuming less CPU time?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 14:28, 28 April 13
Would this offer more control as well as being faster and consuming less CPU time?
I'd say drawing directly raw data is faster than drawing lines when your data structures are well done.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:46, 28 April 13
I'd say drawing directly raw data is faster than drawing lines when your data structures are well done.

Sorry, I'm going to ask a really silly question here :-[ .

Drawing directly raw data = lines drawn by the code

Drawing lines = Using lines I created in the art package.

Is this correct? Sorry, I don't know which one it is that your referring too.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: MacDeath on 14:54, 28 April 13
Quote
One pixel is one pixel , I know you still need to improve your CPC knowledge so you need to know CPC/Plus is not able to get subpixel move  (maybe some will find objection)
I knew it. also old post is old, oops.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 16:27, 28 April 13
Sorry, I'm going to ask a really silly question here :-[ .

Drawing directly raw data = lines drawn by the code

Drawing lines = Using lines I created in the art package.

Is this correct? Sorry, I don't know which one it is that your referring too.
Well, that's maybe me who was not clear enough.I meant the reverse you said , as raw data i meant drawing byte per byte as any graphics, sprites (that does not mean there are not optimisations).Drawing lines stands for procedural graphics like using plot and draw basic commands ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 16:48, 28 April 13
One more thing to support the redrawing tilemap method is the amount of sprites you want on the screen.

If you start scrolling with the CRTC then the sprite routines will me much slower as you have to check for boundary overlaps every line.  If the screen remains unscrolled, the sprite routines will be much faster.

I think it would work using a super fast tile print routine (pushing bytes from stack to screen) and then using compiled sprites for the players etc.  This would still be reasonable memory usage because its a football game and therefore there is only one 'level' (i.e. the ptich) and no need for loads of tiles to be stored for different 'levels' as is usually the case.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 18:25, 28 April 13
Well, that's maybe me who was not clear enough.I meant the reverse you said , as raw data i meant drawing byte per byte as any graphics, sprites (that does not mean there are not optimisations).Drawing lines stands for procedural graphics like using plot and draw basic commands ;)

I see. I'm actually a little surprised that the importation of graphics would be faster than the internal plot and drawn commands coming from the CPC itself. I was thinking of maybe having those functions used for simple 1 colour graphics like the lines, ball and the shadow. Bang goes that theory!!! :D

One more thing to support the redrawing tilemap method is the amount of sprites you want on the screen.

If you start scrolling with the CRTC then the sprite routines will me much slower as you have to check for boundary overlaps every line.  If the screen remains unscrolled, the sprite routines will be much faster.

I think it would work using a super fast tile print routine (pushing bytes from stack to screen) and then using compiled sprites for the players etc.  This would still be reasonable memory usage because its a football game and therefore there is only one 'level' (i.e. the ptich) and no need for loads of tiles to be stored for different 'levels' as is usually the case.


There needs to be around 16 sprites on screen so using compiled would be great for their speed, but how would you handle the clipping/wrapping around the screen?
Also, there are around 6 160x200 sheets with the sprites and background graphics which comes to around 48kb when stored. There are lot's of empty areas around the sprites so it would take up less space, but on reading some information about compiled sprites, it seems that they need to be stored 3 times? But with the sprites only being 16x16 I have no idea how much kb 1 frame would take up.

As an example (leaving the ball out of this example for now) we could have the linesman and ref could be normal sprites as they are not interactive or playable and that the playable sprites, goalkeeper and football are compiled sprites. Let's imagine a playable scene of 12 playable sprites, 6 on each side running around the pitch.
I'll mix in a wild random guess and say that 1 frame of animation from a 16x16 sprite is 2kb. This will turn into 6kb when it finally is displayed on screen. For all the 12 playable sprites on the pitch, you would be looking at 72kb, plus 32kb for the scrolling with the remaining memory used for code/sound etc.

If this was the case, then I'm guessing that it would work okay(?)

OR have I totally got this all wrong??

Edit:
Graphics Programming: Compiled Sprites (http://nondot.org/sabre/graphpro/sprite4.html)
Allegro Manual: Compiled sprites (http://alleg.sourceforge.net/stabledocs/en/alleg016.html#get_compiled_sprite)

"Hint: if not being able to clip compiled sprites is a problem, a neat trick is to set up a work surface (memory bitmap, mode-X virtual screen, or whatever) a bit bigger than you really need, and use the middle of it as your screen. That way you can draw slightly off the edge without any trouble..."

One more thing...

With compiled sprites, is it possible to change the colour or mirror an individual sprite through the machine code that it is being stored as?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 20:22, 28 April 13
One pixel is one pixel ...

Of course :)  and sometimes not. The Plus can move its sprites on a Mode 2 grit even if Mode 0 is switched of.... So this is what I call pixel split  :laugh:
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: fano on 22:12, 28 April 13

Of course :)  and sometimes not. The Plus can move its sprites on a Mode 2 grit even if Mode 0 is switched of.... So this is what I call pixel split  :laugh:
Right , was waiting this one  ;)
Quote
(maybe some will find objection)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:43, 29 April 13

Here's what I'm thinking with all the information gathered on this thread to make this work:



1) Split the screen into 3 sections

2) For the crowds: Redraw the tilemaps of the crowds in the top part of the background.

3) For the main field: 2 layers of the white lines with one of them being shifted by 2 pixels. Scroll these screens by swapping the layers and using hardware scrolling and R3. to achieve 1 pixel smooth scrolling at 25fps (YAYYYY!!)

4) For score: Static score hud at the bottom of the background.

5) Compiled sprites for the player sprites and football.

6) Normal sprites for ref and linesman.


How does this sound folks? Any problems with this?




1) The fastest!

2) Easy implementation

3) Cheap to use/less CPU strain
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 16:56, 29 April 13
Could someone please point me to some games that make heavy use of compiled sprites?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 17:15, 29 April 13
Could someone please point me to some games that make heavy use of compiled sprites?

Anything that's fast  ;)

Clipping is a problem, as you say.  Maybe there's a solution using something like JP (HL) to get to a row, but I haven't written something like this yet...?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Axelay on 17:41, 29 April 13
Could someone please point me to some games that make heavy use of compiled sprites?


I used them for all the main sprites in Dead on Time, which looks to be in the game downloads section of the forum if you want a look.  It doesnt clip sprites on the left or right screen edges though, it's a 64K game.  It reuses frames in the different colours, but with a limited number of registers, which is why there are only two inks for the areas of enemy sprites that change colour.



Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 18:20, 29 April 13

I used them for all the main sprites in Dead on Time, which looks to be in the game downloads section of the forum if you want a look.  It doesnt clip sprites on the left or right screen edges though, it's a 64K game.

Took a quick look on youtube but will play it when I get home. The enemies bounce off the edges of the screen and also move off the screen on the bottom and top of the screen, The bullets however are clipped at the left and right side of the screen? Are the bullets a different type of sprite?


 It reuses frames in the different colours, but with a limited number of registers, which is why there are only two inks for the areas of enemy sprites that change colour.



So for the football game it would be possible to change and have different variations of skin colour for each individual player on the same team using this method?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Axelay on 19:30, 29 April 13
Took a quick look on youtube but will play it when I get home. The enemies bounce off the edges of the screen and also move off the screen on the bottom and top of the screen, The bullets however are clipped at the left and right side of the screen? Are the bullets a different type of sprite?
 
The normal player and enemy bullets are not clipped on the side of the screen either, but that's because the player bullets are only 1 byte wide anyway, and the enemy bullets, that was just lack of memory, as these are both normal banked sprites.  Although the bullet sprite data is page aligned and only 4-6 bytes per sprite, so they are reasonably fast, so I considered that the saving in cpu time for compiling them would have been too small for the cost in memory.
 

 
So for the football game it would be possible to change and have different variations of skin colour for each individual player on the same team using this method?

It is possible, but it will depend on how many colours you want to change, and the design of the sprites.  The problem is that a register holds not a pixel, but a byte, which is 2 pixels in mode 0.  So even to change just one colour can take several registers as it needs to hold the pixels you want to change the colour of in all the combinations they are used with other colours in a single byte pixel pair.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 22:36, 29 April 13
The normal player and enemy bullets are not clipped on the side of the screen either, but that's because the player bullets are only 1 byte wide anyway, and the enemy bullets, that was just lack of memory, as these are both normal banked sprites.  Although the bullet sprite data is page aligned and only 4-6 bytes per sprite, so they are reasonably fast, so I considered that the saving in cpu time for compiling them would have been too small for the cost in memory.
 

 It is possible, but it will depend on how many colours you want to change, and the design of the sprites.  The problem is that a register holds not a pixel, but a byte, which is 2 pixels in mode 0.  So even to change just one colour can take several registers as it needs to hold the pixels you want to change the colour of in all the combinations they are used with other colours in a single byte pixel pair.

(http://i.imgur.com/TkKWr1O.gif)

1 byte = 2 pixels. The actual sprites are 16x16.

The example sheet shows what I would like to do with the sprites in relation to changing skin and hair colours of players on the same team (if possible).

There would probably be a maximum of 16 pixels that would need to be recoloured which would be a total of 8 bytes for 1 sprite. This would be the arms, face, legs and hair. For hair colour it would be 1 byte as it is just 1 pixel. There would probably be 4 or 5 in each team that could do with a colour variant. So there would need to be an allocation of around 80 bytes that could be used for both teams for colour variants.

As you can see from this sheet, you can fit around 150 frames of animated sprites or more and I have 10 of these sheets filled with them and the backgrounds which includes both teams and their mirrored versions.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:00, 30 April 13
Hi guys!!

Thanks for all the help on this. I think we have worked out something achievable, realistic and fantastic that will work fine on a 128kb machine!
I'm going to be working hard again on the beat em up game sometime this week, but if anyone wants to give a hand in getting the football game engine running with the excellent instructions on this thread, then please let me know.

I will resume to work slowly on the front end this game, just to break up the time I spend on the beat em up as it's quite exhausting working flat out on just that one project.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 16:27, 30 April 13
Just a silly idea, if you did teams with player names you could make one with forum members :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Axelay on 17:12, 30 April 13

1 byte = 2 pixels. The actual sprites are 16x16.

The example sheet shows what I would like to do with the sprites in relation to changing skin and hair colours of players on the same team (if possible).

There would probably be a maximum of 16 pixels that would need to be recoloured which would be a total of 8 bytes for 1 sprite. This would be the arms, face, legs and hair. For hair colour it would be 1 byte as it is just 1 pixel. There would probably be 4 or 5 in each team that could do with a colour variant. So there would need to be an allocation of around 80 bytes that could be used for both teams for colour variants.

As you can see from this sheet, you can fit around 150 frames of animated sprites or more and I have 10 of these sheets filled with them and the backgrounds which includes both teams and their mirrored versions.


I assume from the dimensions of your sprites that when you say 16x16, you mean 8 mode 0 pixels wide by 16 high.  With compiled sprites (or most other types on CPC), you are not dealing with individual pixels, but bytes.  So if you want to recolour a compiled sprite 'on the fly', you will need a register to store each unique byte combination that requires changing, and those bytes may be required to hold pixel colours you do not want to change.  These registers would be set up with different pixel colour information depending on the colours required, before going to a common routine for printing that particular frame.


I've attached a png of your example player frame showing the pixels as they would be separated into bytes on screen memory.  I dont know if you need the players to be able to move at one mode 0 pixel steps, but if so, you will need two versions of the compiled sprite, one offset by one mode 0 pixel from the other.


For both the frames in the image, the blue rectangles identify a byte of screen memory, and because the sprite is mode 0, each byte holds two pixels.  To change the hair and skin colour of the player, the bytes outlined in yellow will need to be changed.  Some of these contain colours that dont need to be changed, but they are still part of a byte that requires the other pixel's colour to change, so need to be considered.


To the right of each frame I have (hopefully) identified all the unique combinations of pixel pairs that require at least one change of pixel colour for that frame.  As you can see there are eight unique combinations of 2 pixels that require changing for the frame on the left, but only five for the one on the right.  Each combination of pixels requires a register, and eight is possibly starting to get a bit tricky or unwieldy, although there are things that could be done in the compiled sprite code to reduce the number of registers that are needed, as some of the combinations are only used once.  So for this particular frame at least, it looks like it should be possible to change the hair and skin colours of the players within the same compiled sprite routine.


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 17:55, 30 April 13
The one at the right looks better, except its legs, which look better at the left side.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 19:03, 30 April 13
That's a good explanation Axelay.

I have just been through something similar when trying to see what pixels/bytes I could change, but it was made worse by being in Mode 1.

So I cheated. But I still had enough memory left ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:53, 01 May 13

I assume from the dimensions of your sprites that when you say 16x16, you mean 8 mode 0 pixels wide by 16 high.  With compiled sprites (or most other types on CPC), you are not dealing with individual pixels, but bytes.  So if you want to recolour a compiled sprite 'on the fly', you will need a register to store each unique byte combination that requires changing, and those bytes may be required to hold pixel colours you do not want to change.  These registers would be set up with different pixel colour information depending on the colours required, before going to a common routine for printing that particular frame.

Thank you so much for this information!

Yes, I meant 8 x 16. (I keep counting them as single mode 1 pixels :) )and I had no idea about the sprite combinations!

I dont know if you need the players to be able to move at one mode 0 pixel steps, but if so, you will need two versions of the compiled sprite, one offset by one mode 0 pixel from the other.


the 1 pixel step would only be used for the walks there are 5 directions, but the walk animations moving up and down the screen wont need the pixel steps. The walk cycles across, diagonal up and diagonal down would be nice with pixel steps, but I'm starting to think that these sprites cannot be duplicated because there are just far too many animation frames.


To the right of each frame I have (hopefully) identified all the unique combinations of pixel pairs that require at least one change of pixel colour for that frame.  As you can see there are eight unique combinations of 2 pixels that require changing for the frame on the left, but only five for the one on the right.  Each combination of pixels requires a register, and eight is possibly starting to get a bit tricky or unwieldy, although there are things that could be done in the compiled sprite code to reduce the number of registers that are needed, as some of the combinations are only used once.  So for this particular frame at least, it looks like it should be possible to change the hair and skin colours of the players within the same compiled sprite routine.



If this has to be done for each animaion frame - I have to be realistic and tell myself that it's just not going to happen. I already have 2 teams, one red and the other blue with both their mirrored counterparts and once again, 10 of these 160x200 sheets filled with hundreds of these tiny 8x16 sprites is not really feasible as the amount of mistakes that would happen would be all too easy.

I'm going to put this one onto the "Not to do" list :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 04:55, 01 May 13
Just a silly idea, if you did teams with player names you could make one with forum members :D


And people could pay for that, so the next year of the wiki gets payd too :)

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:24, 01 May 13

 So if you want to recolour a compiled sprite 'on the fly', you will need a register to store each unique byte combination that requires changing, and those bytes may be required to hold pixel colours you do not want to change.  These registers would be set up with different pixel colour information depending on the colours required, before going to a common routine for printing that particular frame.

I'm an idiot! I read this differently and it was only when I woke up this morning that I realized. For some reason I forgot about the "storing" part and was thinking that I would have to recreate combinations for each frame, when it fact you just need 1 of every possible combination which is stored and then called up when needed.

Okay - I'm going to workout each colour combination because there are actually only 3 that needs changing:

1) Skin tone
2) Skin shadow
3) Hair

The pixel pairs that you have created are to be be used for the whole sprite sheet. There are a few missing such as a pair that has the dark pink next to the light pink and a light pink next to a dark pink, empty space next to white pixel etc.

I reckon that there wont be that many combinations (30 or so?)
So I will do these combinations and post them tonight.

It's now back on the "To do" list! :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 22:42, 01 May 13
Here are the different colour combinations for one team with 3 sets of skin colours including left and right side:

(http://i.imgur.com/wCgghFU.gif)

So for 2 teams it's lookig at around 360 bytes.

Is this feasible?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 12:12, 02 May 13
After creating this set of skin variants, how would one deal with hair colour? Would I need to create another byte sheet?
It makes me wonder if Sensible World of Soccer had a special sprite colouring routine or whether they just created a new set of sprites with different hair/skin colouring.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 12:27, 02 May 13
It makes me wonder if Sensible World of Soccer had a special sprite colouring routine or whether they just created a new set of sprites with different hair/skin colouring.

If you mean on the Amiga/ST then the gfx memory is different so would have been easier to change the colours.  The CPC problems come from the 2 pixels in one byte problem (along with the fact that the 2 pixels or not stored in a linear fashion either).

But Kick Off and Sensible Soccer appear to have a LOT of sprites, so it's probably a combination of pre-storage and colour changes.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Axelay on 15:04, 02 May 13
After creating this set of skin variants, how would one deal with hair colour? Would I need to create another byte sheet?


The hair colour could be dealt with the same way, but really I think whoever codes the game for you is going to end up creating an automated process to translate the sprite frames into compiled sprites, and from that they'd work out how feasible the skin/hair colour changing might be for their approach to coding it, so I wouldnt produce another byte sheet unless they asked for it.


The CPC problems come from the 2 pixels in one byte problem (along with the fact that the 2 pixels or not stored in a linear fashion either).
 


I like the non linear pixels, only one bit shift at any resolution for a one pixel shift!  :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:46, 03 May 13
If you mean on the Amiga/ST then the gfx memory is different so would have been easier to change the colours.  The CPC problems come from the 2 pixels in one byte problem (along with the fact that the 2 pixels or not stored in a linear fashion either).

But Kick Off and Sensible Soccer appear to have a LOT of sprites, so it's probably a combination of pre-storage and colour changes.

I had a look at Sensible Soccer which has 2 skin colours and 2 hair colours. I'm not too sure how many sprites the game had, but I think that FIFA 95 is probably the most heavily 2d animated football game I've seen.


The hair colour could be dealt with the same way, but really I think whoever codes the game for you is going to end up creating an automated process to translate the sprite frames into compiled sprites, and from that they'd work out how feasible the skin/hair colour changing might be for their approach to coding it, so I wouldnt produce another byte sheet unless they asked for it.


Okay. Thanks!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 11:39, 03 May 13
I like the non linear pixels, only one bit shift at any resolution for a one pixel shift!  :)

Yes, this is nice, but only good for certain circumstances (repeated backgrounds?).

If you're using it for a sprite, then you have to take shifted bits, move them into the next byte, mask it with what's already there etc, then repeat, repeat, repeat...!

There's a reason everyone uses pre-shifted  ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 17:33, 03 May 13
Not everyone
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Axelay on 19:55, 03 May 13
Yes, this is nice, but only good for certain circumstances (repeated backgrounds?).

If you're using it for a sprite, then you have to take shifted bits, move them into the next byte, mask it with what's already there etc, then repeat, repeat, repeat...!

There's a reason everyone uses pre-shifted  ;)


I found it pretty convenient for the scroll buffer on a horizontal scroller, amongst other minor things, but I've never considered pixel shifting on the fly for a sprite routine.  I want to avoid too much processing in a sprite routine!  Not sure a linear bit arrangement would change things all that much?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 23:07, 03 May 13
Well, if they move quick enought, then you can use byte-wise scrolling.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:38, 10 July 13
Anybody know how action replays are handled and what other games used them on the CPC?

I know Micropose soccer had them and I would love to have the same for this footy game.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: trocoloco on 12:28, 11 July 13
I remember that Fernando Martin Basket Master have replays with a zoomed screen even
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 18:33, 11 July 13
Oh yes it did, for slam dunks. Lovely huge pixels!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:34, 12 July 13
I remember that Fernando Martin Basket Master have replays with a zoomed screen even

Yes!!! How could I forget about that one! The screen zooming in was just superb and I remember being wowed when I saw it for the first time. It also runs the replays in slow motion too! Having an action replay on a foul tackle with a zoom and slowmo would be fantastic for this game!

I'm guessing that a certain portion of ram is allocated to just replays where that ram would then hold a set number of seconds of recorded data?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 09:53, 12 July 13
It also runs the replays in slow motion too!
Sure, the framerate drop when it zoom...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:34, 12 July 13
Heh....there I was thinking that it was coded intentionally.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:23, 12 July 13
Probably not, since (IIRC) there was quite a lot of searing...
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 23:49, 12 July 13
Heh....there I was thinking that it was coded intentionally.
The most important is what the player see. :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: trocoloco on 08:57, 16 July 13
good to know, I never thought it was slow because of the code but it certainly does the job.
It would be wicked to implement a similar feature in a football game, never seen on Amstrad (I think)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:40, 16 July 13
The most important is what the player see. :)

Indeed!

good to know, I never thought it was slow because of the code but it certainly does the job.
It would be wicked to implement a similar feature in a football game, never seen on Amstrad (I think)


I would love to see this in a CPC footy game too.

In regards to the current status of this game, I haven't started working on the front end as yet in relation to things like league tables, player names (would be nice if they were configurable) amongst other things. But to be really honest - the most important thing right now is putting all the solutions to the ideas throughout the 15 pages on this thread, put into practice to see if this game is really possible on a standard 128kb machine.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: trocoloco on 23:16, 16 July 13
In regards to the current status of this game, I haven't started working on the front end as yet in relation to things like league tables, player names (would be nice if they were configurable) amongst other things. But to be really honest - the most important thing right now is putting all the solutions to the ideas throughout the 15 pages on this thread, put into practice to see if this game is really possible on a standard 128kb machine.

configurable team and player names and maybe some kinda custom outfit set up would wonderful too, I think that Emilyn Huge's Soccer uses them and its only a 64kb, but yes, there are so many good ideas throughout the thread to think about memory wise tho. In any case, those wonderful gameplay mockups u made and all the ideas gathered in this thread would form one of the best footy games for CPC for sure (if not the best IMO).
Would love to see it working in our machines, but I understand that it entails is A LOT of work and we wont know if it will happen one day, but hey, dreaming is free  ;) .
Whatever u end up doing I want to congratulate u for your interest and superb work on this project and your own beat'em up game  :) .

Btw, did you think of a name for that one?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:39, 17 July 13
configurable team and player names and maybe some kinda custom outfit set up would wonderful too, I think that Emilyn Huge's Soccer uses them and its only a 64kb, but yes, there are so many good ideas throughout the thread to think about memory wise tho. In any case, those wonderful gameplay mockups u made and all the ideas gathered in this thread would form one of the best footy games for CPC for sure (if not the best IMO).
Would love to see it working in our machines, but I understand that it entails is A LOT of work and we wont know if it will happen one day, but hey, dreaming is free  ;) .
Whatever u end up doing I want to congratulate u for your interest and superb work on this project and your own beat'em up game  :) .

Btw, did you think of a name for that one?

@trocoloco: Thanks! (Current name for the beat em up is "No Holds Barred")

Configurable kits would definitely be cool to have!

The guys on this thread yet again have been a fantastic help on finding solutions and coming up with ideas to create something that is possibly feasible. I also think that this would be a wonderful game if all the methods worked out in practice and I'm confident that they would.
The thing is with a football game is that the AI is an incredible challenge. Having to make the computer controlled players aware of what the opposing team is doing as well as their own, making sure that the goalkeeper is coded in a fair way, coding the ball itself to convey a sense of realism within the boundaries of physics in regards to being kicked, being deflected and the collision when bouncing off different angles.

It's a big challenge and probably one of the most difficult types of games to program AI wise as it's a team game that is constantly flowing and changing. I'm guessing that the ball dictates a lot as it can be interacted in so many different ways, be it on the ground or in the air.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: redbox on 09:44, 17 July 13
I agree that the AI would probably end up being the most challenging aspect. Dino D said he spent ages getting it to 'feel right' with Kick Off.

Maybe you should just call it 'Playground Football' - the ball could be the size of a tennis ball and the player AI would just be every player running straight for the ball all the time ;)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:19, 17 July 13
Maybe you should just call it 'Playground Football' - the ball could be the size of a tennis ball and the player AI would just be every player running straight for the ball all the time ;)

Wow! That takes me back!

It would be interesting to see how Emlyn Hughes and Matchday 2 approached the AI. On Emlyn Hughes, sometimes it looked as though spawning was happening with the players at certain times due to the amount of sprites on screen that could be handled at a decent frame rate.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 17:51, 17 July 13
Playground Fotball -hahahaha! But then you should make it a 5 on 5 game instead, and place it in an alley - oh wait, where's Codemasters?
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: TFM on 18:03, 17 July 13
So, due to the lack of examples and most probably being a programmers nightmare - is 1 pixel scrolling in both directions just not viable for games on the CPC? (not PLUS)
Well, my Cyber Huhn can do that, but obviously only very few saw that as "technical archivement".[nb]EDIT: Uups, I answered to the last post of page 1 and thought it's 25 *ggg*[/nb]
Title: Re: Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.
Post by: sigh on 02:23, 18 July 13
Well, my Cyber Huhn can do that, but obviously only very few saw that as "technical archivement".[nb]EDIT: Uups, I answered to the last post of page 1 and thought it's 25 *ggg*[/nb]

I took a look at Cyber Huhn and was using the arrow keys to move the cursor around the screen. It looks like mode 1 but moving in all directions at "1 fine(dot/square)" mode 1 pixel?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 18:26, 18 July 13
Yes, that's right. :) [nb]However, if you go into one direction for a longer time, you will move more quick, and so also more pixel.[/nb]
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 01:36, 19 July 13
Yes, that's right. :) [nb]However, if you go into one direction for a longer time, you will move more quick, and so also more pixel.[/nb]

Very cool indeed!!! :o
So how exactly was this done and what is the framerate?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 20:01, 19 July 13
Well, in the ROM version I had to make a compromise solution for space and speed reasons. For the non-ROM version a frame rate of 50 fps can be archieved in case only a couple of chickens and bullets are on screen.
 
 
There are three tricks to archieve a lot of sprites, all-way (use your mouse!) 1-pixel precise movement, at often 50 fps:
 
- Draw sprites in four phases, each is moved one pixel sideways. (So in game your routines don't have to adjust the pixel-precise position).
 
- I used a similar technology, which is used to in Filmemacher, to compile sprites into CoData (which is something between Code and Data).
 
- Erase only parts of the screen, which need to be erased (This is not used in the ROM version, but in non-ROM version, provides a big gain in speed up).
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:03, 19 July 13
Well, in the ROM version I had to make a compromise solution for space and speed reasons. For the non-ROM version a frame rate of 50 fps can be archieved in case only a couple of chickens and bullets are on screen.
 
 
There are three tricks to archieve a lot of sprites, all-way (use your mouse!) 1-pixel precise movement, at often 50 fps:
 
- Draw sprites in four phases, each is moved one pixel sideways. (So in game your routines don't have to adjust the pixel-precise position).
 
- I used a similar technology, which is used to in Filmemacher, to compile sprites into CoData (which is something between Code and Data).
 
- Erase only parts of the screen, which need to be erased (This is not used in the ROM version, but in non-ROM version, provides a big gain in speed up).

So by using the combination of these techniques to achieve around 16 sprites on screen that are 16x16 in size, would either of the two speeds below prove possible without a drop in frame rate?

25fps

(http://i.imgur.com/yMhhjRL.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/yMhhjRL.gif)

18fps

(http://i.imgur.com/fvQX5gZ.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/fvQX5gZ.gif)

I'm guessing that the large screen size and mode 0 isn't going to matter.....
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 02:14, 20 July 13
Should be doable, but maybe it Needs a particular size of the playfield to enable some adressing triecks, means , you don't increate the high-Byte of the Screen address during plotting a sprite.
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 03:02, 20 July 13
25fps looks smoother?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 10:54, 20 July 13
Sure.

But, I don't understand the "18fps".
It's more logic to get 50, 25, 16.66 and 12.5 fps.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 13:21, 20 July 13
Sure.

But, I don't understand the "18fps".
It's more logic to get 50, 25, 16.66 and 12.5 fps.

The 18fps was the lowest framerate that doesn't feel too jerky. Was using it as the worst case scenario.

Should be doable, but maybe it Needs a particular size of the playfield to enable some adressing triecks, means , you don't increate the high-Byte of the Screen address during plotting a sprite.
 


The playfield is 320 x 194. The 6 pixels below would be mode 1 and that would display the score, time and players names.
I would probably avoid the vertical scroll for this game as it's useful seeing as much of the pitch as possible.


Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: remax on 22:04, 20 July 13
Anybody know how action replays are handled and what other games used them on the CPC?

I know Micropose soccer had them and I would love to have the same for this footy game.

Kick Off 2...

Perhaps one of the few things that worked well in this game
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 00:15, 21 July 13
The playfield is 320 x 194. The 6 pixels below would be mode 1 and that would display the score, time and players names.
Could you use a (MODE 1) resolution of 256+128 = 384 Pixel in X? Then you could use Software Scrolling with fixed Screen addresses and fast sprite routines. That would be a big speed gain.
Only sprites which need to be plotted over an X position of 128 or 256 would need to use slow (= regular) sprite routines.
 
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 03:00, 10 August 13
Full length pitch 1152 x 200.
15 Colours

(http://i.imgur.com/8dCPZJ2.gif)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 03:51, 11 August 13
That looks awesome. But IMHO it would be a good idea to extend a bit at the right and left end  :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 20:54, 11 August 13
That looks awesome. But IMHO it would be a good idea to extend a bit at the right and left end  :)

It's currently 384 pixels in X mulitplied by 3 (making 3 screens) so to extend the ends, maybe I could add another 384 screen, divide by 2 to make 192 and then put those halfs at either end? Would fast sprite routines and fixed screen addresses* still be possible?



*I need to research this more to understand what this really is and why it's important...

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:02, 12 August 13
I've been jotting down some ideas regarding the AI:

Solo CPU A.I In possession of ball:

1)Scoring,
2)Avoiding tackles
3)Passing to team mate
4)Running towards opponents goal.
5)Fake diving.

Team mates AI when CPU is in possession of ball:

6)Making way up towards opponents goal.
7)Finding good position.
8)Avoiding being marked.
9)Avoiding offside.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solo CPU AI when not in possession of ball, but nearest to the opponent that has the ball


1)Nearest go to tackle opponent to gain possession of ball.

Team mates defending:

1)Marking opponents.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GoalKeeper when not in possession of ball


1)Prevent ball from going in goal.
2)Finding a good postion to cover gaps.
3)Coming out of the box in an attempt to get to the ball earlier than the striker.
4)Good Position - Catch ball
5)Medium position - Deflect ball
6)Bad postion - Miss ball
7)Being aware of the position of his defenders.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Goal keeper in possession of ball:
Throw/kick ball to nearest opponent or Kick ball to half way line, depending on opponents position and how they are marked.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I briefly scanned this book that has a good few pages on game AI for football games:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gDLpyWtFacYC&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=AI+football+goalkeeper&source=bl&ots=v-xn7W0q6j&sig=LTQ1kwe9olsyQdxtJ0-n0D9-vrw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tw4IUtOjIKTG7AaH04DACQ&ved=0CHoQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=AI%20football%20goalkeeper&f=false (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gDLpyWtFacYC&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=AI+football+goalkeeper&source=bl&ots=v-xn7W0q6j&sig=LTQ1kwe9olsyQdxtJ0-n0D9-vrw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tw4IUtOjIKTG7AaH04DACQ&ved=0CHoQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=AI%20football%20goalkeeper&f=false)

Has code examples which I'm guessing is C++?

It's starts on page 137 "Sports Simulation - Simple Soccer" and goes through the players, ball and goalkeeper, so any ideas are more than welcome:)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 16:13, 11 September 13
Can anyone point me to heavily animated games on the CPC? I'm guessing that Lemmings has a lot of animations and would love to see the sprite sheet. This football game has around 500 frames of animations which includes the player, goalkeeper, ball and ref. Being that the sprites are so tiny, they take about 80kb of data which also includes the opposing team, the mirrored version of the animations, pitch, goalposts, crowds etc.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 21:56, 11 September 13
Maybe Xyphoes Fantasy?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:58, 12 September 13
Maybe Xyphoes Fantasy?

Yeah - I had a look at that and there does seem to be quite a few sprites for when the projectiles are animating.
Prince of Persia is another that has an immense set of animations. I'm guessing that Panza Kick Boxing on the PLUS would have tons! I've seen the megadrive sprite sheet for that game and it's amazing!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ivarf on 14:23, 13 September 13
Full length pitch 1152 x 200.
15 Colours

(http://i.imgur.com/8dCPZJ2.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/8dCPZJ2.gif)
That playfield is so long, I guess you could hide an adventuregame in there somwhere. For example when two particular players meet at a given pixel, the Real Game game could start :)
Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge!!! :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 22:58, 23 September 13
Hahaha! I was thinking it's too long myself, but didn't think of the Easter Egg possibility :D


A soccer pitch is roughly 1.5:1. Even with the perspective distortion this is probably too long and narrow... But, fo course, if the speed is good the player won't mind it one bit.


Also, I don't see the Wiki ad at the back - the checque didn't clear?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TFM on 00:11, 24 September 13
You are right about dimensions, in this case scrolling in Y shall be (I assume) omitted.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 17:15, 24 September 13

Here are some images of the football pitch sizes in Emlyn and Matchday:


(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/JqQYdpC7Fds/hqdefault.jpg)


(http://www.amstradabandonware.com/mod/upload/ams_en/images/d7/9c/87/88/08/8c/21/93/f0/24/4d/8f/1f/36/d2/db/matchday_2.png)




(http://www.onlinemania.org/cpc/match_day2/2.jpg)


...and here's PES which is a realistic scale


(http://i.imgur.com/8MC0jmM.jpg)


My pitch is definitely too long which I will make shorter. Notice how emlyn and matchday have very little vertical space between the pitch lines. I wanted more space between the lines (and just more space in general)
which is why the characters are so tiny and also, why the pitch has more vertical space between the lines without having to add a vertical scroll, which may add another complexity to the already interesting scrolling method that we talked about here.


So you guys are right that the pitch is too long.(I think that the width is somewhat a reasonable compromise.)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:37, 24 September 13
I really don't mind tiny player sprites, Lemmings et Co. tought us it can be a good thing :)


But what I say is this: if it feels like fun then wrong proportions are ok.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ralferoo on 21:25, 25 September 13
They take about 80kb of data which also includes the opposing team, the mirrored version of the animations, pitch, goalposts, crowds etc.
It'd be pretty funny to make a 5-6 ROM version of the game for the 464! :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: mr_lou on 21:36, 25 September 13
It'd be pretty funny to make a 5-6 ROM version of the game for the 464! :)

It would be pretty awesome to see just about any CPC game taking advantage of the 512kb in a cartridge, or just multiple ROMs.  :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 19:48, 26 September 13
It would be pretty awesome to see just about any CPC game taking advantage of the 512kb in a cartridge, or just multiple ROMs.  :)


It would be pretty awesome if I could find someone to program it in the first place! :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: andycadley on 21:33, 26 September 13
I'm surprised this has reached 18 pages and (as far as I can see) nobody has noticed that much of the "pixel scrolling" of the pitch is probably much easier to handle with palette changes. Sure it sacrifices a couple of colours (more if the pitch has to be stripy) but I can't imagine that being a big deal for a football game with such small sprites.

If I were coding it, that's the way I'd be looking (I won't, since I'd need a few years to even begin to learn what half of these football terms are!)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Joseman on 23:22, 26 September 13
That playfield is so long...

Well, here in spain, there was a tv serie (anime) called "Oliver y Benji", not sure if was aired in english countries, the anime was about 2 friends and a football team, this serie was famous for one thing (for me at least), sometimes the players to cross the playfield and make a goal will need 2 or 3 episodes XD, i think that that playfield was even more large (300x times) than this :D

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: GOB on 01:45, 27 September 13
In France her names are "Olive et Tom" :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: TotO on 10:59, 27 September 13
And I don't see it on the TV since 20 years...  ;D  (Captain Tsubasa)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:11, 27 September 13
INTRO: Super Shot Soccer Psone HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rkRAz6O0P8#)



I prefer this!


Very creative game and have often thought it would be fun to incorporate the special moves into the game, but it's just way too much graphically to give the same sensation on a CPC.



Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:49, 06 February 14
Here's what I'm thinking with all the information gathered on this thread to make this work:



1) Split the screen into 3 sections

2) For the crowds: Redraw the tilemaps of the crowds in the top part of the background.

3) For the main field: 2 layers of the white lines with one of them being shifted by 2 pixels. Scroll these screens by swapping the layers and using hardware scrolling and R3. to achieve 1 pixel smooth scrolling at 25fps (YAYYYY!!)

4) For score: Static score hud at the bottom of the background.

5) Compiled sprites for the player sprites and football.

6) Normal sprites for ref and linesman.


How does this sound folks? Any problems with this?




1) The fastest!

2) Easy implementation

3) Cheap to use/less CPU strain

Looking at the original scrolling method above.

It's been a while, but I was bought back here after watching the Commando game on the CPC. I downloaded the rom and just played it.

The Commando game is insane.

There are a heck of a lot sprites in play at any one time. The sprites are a tiny bit bigger than my football sprites, but there's anything up to 9 little guys, lots of bullets, grenades, special effects and bits of scenery being scrolled down the screen.

The footy game would probably have up to 13 sprites (5 players from both sides, ball, ref and linesman) and the only scenery would be the white pitch lines scrolling and crowd scrolling.

So I'm thinking - would it work just using the commando way? Would this game be less intensive than what's happening in Commando?
I'm asking because of the whole R3 thing as it was stated a few pages back that it doesn't work well on LCD which would limit the audience and I want as many people to play it as possible.

I'm surprised this has reached 18 pages and (as far as I can see) nobody has noticed that much of the "pixel scrolling" of the pitch is probably much easier to handle with palette changes. Sure it sacrifices a couple of colours (more if the pitch has to be stripy) but I can't imagine that being a big deal for a football game with such small sprites.

If I were coding it, that's the way I'd be looking (I won't, since I'd need a few years to even begin to learn what half of these football terms are!)

Can someone expand what is meant by using "palette changes"?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: andycadley on 21:28, 06 February 14
Can someone expand what is meant by using "palette changes"?

Sure. Instead of drawing a one pixel wide vertical line in say ink 1, you instead draw a two pixel wide vertical line with the left and right pixels in different inks, say 1 and 2. Now by simply alternating the colour of inks 1 and 2 (one green, one white) you can give the appearance of having a single pixel wide line that moves by one pixel. Doing this means you only really need byte scrolling yet can still get the appearance of pixel scrolling, albeit at the expense of a few colours on screen. It should also be possible to handle the curved sections, such as the centre circle, in a similar fashion with a careful selection of palette colours.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:47, 07 February 14
Sure. Instead of drawing a one pixel wide vertical line in say ink 1, you instead draw a two pixel wide vertical line with the left and right pixels in different inks, say 1 and 2. Now by simply alternating the colour of inks 1 and 2 (one green, one white) you can give the appearance of having a single pixel wide line that moves by one pixel. Doing this means you only really need byte scrolling yet can still get the appearance of pixel scrolling, albeit at the expense of a few colours on screen. It should also be possible to handle the curved sections, such as the centre circle, in a similar fashion with a careful selection of palette colours.

Okay. Here are some animated examples of andycadley's method as I have no coding skills whatsoever:D

The first animation shows to pictures. One is white and green. The other is green and white. They are playing a 2 frame animation.

(http://i.imgur.com/qpo35UG.gif)

Next pic is the animation being scrolled by using the normal 4 single pixel scroll (or 2 wide pixel scroll)

(http://i.imgur.com/29cIhn2.gif)

Next pic has the black background replaced with the green pitch. As stated by andycadley, this gives the illusion of a 1 pixel scroll.


(http://i.imgur.com/9zaGAiO.gif)

..and here it is playing at 25fps

(http://i.imgur.com/aU7vfmo.gif)

So, this method could be used for the area up until the goal posts are seem. In which case, could they be scrolled in using the Commando method as the goal posts wont need to scroll that far?

Also - would this centre vertical line be tiled, or would it just be one single vertical line from the bottom of the pitch to the top?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:11, 15 February 14
Can someone point to more examples of games that have the Commando scrolling method?
I would like to check some more out.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:08, 23 February 14
Looking at this again, I'm not to sure how feasible it would be scrolling the advertising boards and crowds when combined with the technique used on the white lines.
The boards move way to fast when compared to the lines:

(http://i.imgur.com/XBvASqS.gif)

I also tried to stagger it but it ended up looking very nasty like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/PpYvTxj.gif)


Removing the crowd and boards (as seen below) results in a much smoother look, but is devoid of atmosphere. This would mean that crowd sounds, sound effects and musical jingle effects would play an even bigger part, needing to play throughout a match with no silent gaps.

(http://i.imgur.com/4NPi5GG.gif)

Could the crowds use the same technique as the white lines? Or should they be removed?

On another note, I was looking at the screen dimensions for Matchday 2 and Emlyn Hughes Soccer. Matchday 2 uses the full 320 by 200 dimensions (pitch is 320 x 156), while Emlyn Hughes only uses 208 by 192 with the pitch only being 136 in height with the rest being taken up by the HUD.

Any reason why the programmer would of chosen such a small dimension?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 11:59, 23 February 14
The Ad boards move in a paralax style? Why is this ? It  would be a shame to lose the boarding , cos of the atmosphere it creates
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 14:07, 23 February 14
I would prefer having ad boards and the crown scrolling imperfectly than not having them at all to tell you the truth...
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 15:15, 23 February 14
You possibly could make it a feature, As the modern day adverts scroll and change too different Ads?Just a thought
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: steve on 16:22, 23 February 14
Maybe Google would be interested in buying advertising space. ;D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:29, 23 February 14
It  would be a shame to lose the boarding , cos of the atmosphere it creates

True....

I would prefer having ad boards and the crown scrolling imperfectly than not having them at all to tell you the truth...

..but I've decided that it will make the gameplay feel jerky and disjointed. The gameplay counts for more than the boards and crowds, despite the lack of atmosphere they may bring if the crowds are removed. After 19 pages of many forum members trying to figuring out the best methods, to settle with the dodgy crowd scrolling would not make me happy at all. I would rather have them removed and have the sound effects create the atmosphere instead.

I've come up with a solution, but I think it may be a bit of a CPU strain.

I have created a crowd sprite which is 24x16. They have 4 frames of animation as seen below. I have then scrolled this animation using the normal 4 pixel software scroll.

(http://i.imgur.com/5NahfrJ.gif)

I have now sped this up to 25FPS:

(http://i.imgur.com/LYz0oyB.gif)

In order to create a full crowd, there would need to be 9 of these next to each other (as shown above).
Here is the result of laying the crowds next to each other and playing the animation with normal 4 pixel scrolling:

(http://i.imgur.com/idPJD4A.gif)

Here are the results when put onto the pitch against the scrolling lines:

(http://i.imgur.com/wAkMDK8.gif)

The problem I see with using this method on the crowds is that for this screen size which is 200 x 200, it would need around 9 crowd sprites all animating. Plus there would be the white lines, the players (probably around 8 with this screen size) the ref and ball.

That's 20 animated objects moving every single frame.

So what I would like to know is...

How feasible is this without it slowing down?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: andycadley on 23:34, 23 February 14
Doing the crowds shouldn't be overly difficult. They don't need any masking and are in a reasonably small area of the display. I'd probably write custom code to draw them optimally, but it shouldn't be insurmountable.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:18, 24 February 14
Doing the crowds shouldn't be overly difficult. They don't need any masking and are in a reasonably small area of the display. I'd probably write custom code to draw them optimally, but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

I would need an extra crowd sprite to break up the monotony of that latest example posted.
I'm guessing that the white lines and crowds could be generated as compiled sprits due to there low complexity and the very small amount of RAM they would require.

Anyone know what type of sprites are being used in Commando?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: EgoTrip on 16:29, 24 February 14
Yay the A-Team football game. Shame they are losing :( Mr T must be pissed.

I really can't wait for this to be finished. Wish I could help out but all I can do is offer encouragement.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:28, 25 February 14
Doing the crowds shouldn't be overly difficult. They don't need any masking and are in a reasonably small area of the display. I'd probably write custom code to draw them optimally, but it shouldn't be insurmountable.
Are you putting yourself forward to make this andy?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 17:04, 25 February 14
I need to demo the goal posts and other lines; Horizontal and semi circle and circle. The circles and goalposts are quite worrying as they are quite big sprites.
Would the goal posts need to be plotted like a sprite? Due to the large size, would it be wise to chop it up into smaller parts?
I will attempt to demonstrate the other lines using the same technique as the vertical line.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:05, 25 February 14
The new boards solution works lovely. Too bad that you can't really use them to put ads on, and indeed it needs another sprite to break up the monotony and reinforce the notion that these are, in fact, boards, but it scrolls very nicely.


And I'm in love with the player-with-ball animation :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: andycadley on 00:14, 26 February 14
Are you putting yourself forward to make this andy?
Sadly I know almost nothing about football, nor did I ever really get into playing football games. Which I suspect would be something of a limitation in trying to produce something playable because I honestly couldn't tell what worked and what didn't. As a somewhat intellectual exercise in how you might solve some of the problems involved in making a fast, smooth football game, I have to admit it's very interesting though....
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:02, 26 February 14
I'm not into football myself, but as animator I enjoyed animating the movement of the footballers - the run cycles, walks, jogs, skips and diving headers etc. It was great fun animating and trying to squeeze as much personality and realism into a 16x16 character. I've also always been impressed by those AI coders when it comes to such sports games like football, basketball and ice hockey, that have a lot of players on screen at once, all acting out different routines and being aware of each other in a realistic manner.

The only sports games I played a lot was tennis games and I feel we already have some good ones on CPC, however - I don't really feel the same way about the football games CPC.

Basically, what I need from someone is to do 2 things:

1) set up the screen with the scrolling with the white lines and crowd just like the example shown. Should be able to scroll around the pitch with cursor keys.

2) Have as many sprites playing a run cycle on the screen while this is happening, until it starts to drop FPS.


Having these done would help to see if this method works, how much slowdown it would produce and how much strain on the CPU. The screen could maybe start off as the full 320 x 200, then as things get added and start to slowdown, the screen width can be reduced until it reaches a comfortable and stable 25fps. The minimum screen size should be no less than 200 x 200. If it is slow and choppy at this stage, then removal of the crowds should be attempted.
If it's still choppy after that - then there is no point carrying on with the project.

If all goes well with the speed and smoothness, then the next stage would be to find another programmer to take on the painful task of coding the AI and logic!

Sadly I know almost nothing about football, nor did I ever really get into playing football games. Which I suspect would be something of a limitation in trying to produce something playable because I honestly couldn't tell what worked and what didn't. As a somewhat intellectual exercise in how you might solve some of the problems involved in making a fast, smooth football game, I have to admit it's very interesting though....

If your interested in the scrolling and would like to attempt that part only, then let me know.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 03:47, 06 March 14
Hi guys,

Anyone know the answers to these questions I had posted please :) ?

1) What type of sprites are being used in Commando? (compiled, compressed etc)

2) Screen dimensions for Matchday 2 uses the full 320 by 200 dimensions (pitch is 320 x 156), while Emlyn Hughes only uses 208 by 192 with the pitch only being 136 in height with the rest being taken up by the HUD.

Any reason why the programmer would of chosen such a small dimension on EH?

Thanks

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xifos on 09:41, 06 March 14
Any reason why the programmer would of chosen such a small dimension on EH?

Thanks

Emlyn Hughes Soccer (which i think is the best football* game on 8 bits) uses full software scrolling, and maybe double buffering.
So to save ram (double buffer) and cpu (cpc version of EHS is slow anyway), the screen was reduced.
In my opinion...

For commando i don't know except it "xores" sprites.
*soccer
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 13:00, 06 March 14
Emlyn Hughes Soccer (which i think is the best football* game on 8 bits) uses full software scrolling, and maybe double buffering.
So to save ram (double buffer) and cpu (cpc version of EHS is slow anyway), the screen was reduced.
In my opinion...

For commando i don't know except it "xores" sprites.
*soccer

Hmmm.

I've also been given some excellent info from arnoldemu in regards to scrolling.

I think that this football game would be better off using the same techniques of the examples I posted, but with hardware scrolling instead.
It will take more ram, but things like the goalkeeper (you'll only ever see one at a time), referee and linesman could be compressed along with certain animations, like be fouled and cheering when they have scored a goal.

This would leave more CPU time, but more importantly, scroll a full 320 width screen without taking a performance hit.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Ast on 23:07, 17 September 14
Does your project finish ?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 19:58, 18 September 14
Hi everyone.

@Ast (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=573). Graphics and animation are all done. I need to do 1 more test of pitch scrolling with the goal posts before I try and hunt someone down to try and program and conclude if the scrolling method will work or not with all those sprites.

Much of my time has been spent on the beat em up so I haven't touched this for some time, but will be coming back to it in the next couple of months.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 09:15, 31 July 15
Any news?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 12:43, 31 July 15
Wow!!!

Has it really been that long since I last posted on this :o !

I haven't looked at it for a good while, but it isn't dead. I've been busy trying to finish an old project from a long time ago, I've also got the beat em up to tend to which I also haven't been able to touch for some time and I'm also working on two other projects; one for another member of this forum and the other from outside. Having been out of the UK for 3 months, I'm having to acclimatize and get things organized!

Anyway - the football game reached a point where the graphic work is completely done along with the animations. There is a huge amount of animation in this game and I would need to number the sprites correctly, but there isn't much point in doing so unless I can find a programmer to reproduce the scrolling tests I animated on the past pages. I think that the scrolling technique would work incredibly well as described by andycadley, but until it's put into reality, this game cant really move on.

I still need to do the pitch scrolling test with the goal posts. I have a feeling that the goalpost might be tricky to scroll on a per pixel level, and may have to scroll in a 2 wide pixel method just for that section of the pitch. It would only need to come into view at a short distance from the side of the pitch where it would stop scrolling. Hopefully it wouldn't look too jarring.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:39, 10 August 15
Thanks for the update mate, hope this sees the light of day!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 11:57, 11 August 15
Thanks for the update mate, hope this sees the light of day!

Me too! Still need to do those extra tests.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 17:06, 01 August 16
It's been a while but I've been properly laying out the frames as shown below:

(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/data:image/gif;base64,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)(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/3887/pIQcwY.gif)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/4932/yxPbTd.gif)



As the sprites fit into 16x16 sqaures, I can fit around 88 sprites per sheet and there is going to be a lot of them. The graphical data is going to take around 80kb uncompressed with all of it being animations as the goal, crowds and pitch lines aren't very heavy.
I currently have 3 sheets done (248 frames) which includes the run, jog, walk, sprint and skip cycle animations. These 5 locomotions are the heaviest animations in the game.
I'm now sorting out the shooting, passing, heading the ball etc anims. There are still some tests to be done with the scrolling, but I want to get these out the way first so I can put the graphic work of this game to bed so I never need to touch it ever again.

I'm also preparing to resuming work on the beat em up which is the main focus, when I get back to the UK next week.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 17:19, 01 August 16
I'm convinced this will become a really great game. I hope I can play it on my little CPC when next wave of football fever ;-) reaches me. Probably at world cup 2018!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 19:42, 01 August 16
They look brilliant!
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 20:25, 01 August 16
Can I ask a question. regarding what style of footie game it will be like? More like Speedy Adidas or technical Emlyn Hughes? Or is this too early in development?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 21:23, 01 August 16
Can I ask a question. regarding what style of footie game it will be like? More like Speedy Adidas or technical Emlyn Hughes? Or is this too early in development?

Good question and it's definitely not too early in development. Questions like that need to be answered before even creation begins.

The original plan was to have it simulated which is why there are so many animations in the game.  However - as I don't actually play football games* it would be best to have a combination of simulated/technical and arcadey. I don't want it like Emlyn Hughes where headers or diving headers are overly difficult to pull off. I also don't want it like Italia 90 where your constantly doing bicycle kicks and diving headers like nobody's business.

In between the 2 is what the game need to be. I guess - think Pro evo/fifa on the CPC ?





*I'm not into football or football games (though I don't mind Bakuretsu Soccer aka "SuperShot Soccer"due to it's zany supermoves), but I enjoy the animations and AI techniques that are present in football games now. I really do think it's an amazing achievement both in programming and animations.

This makes me really want to produce a good footy game for the CPC.

However - I would be interested in what you guys who do enjoy football games think.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: EgoTrip on 22:28, 01 August 16
The sprites look amazing, but how will you fit them all in the CPC's memory, along with all the code and AI?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 23:54, 01 August 16
The sprites look amazing, but how will you fit them all in the CPC's memory, along with all the code and AI?

It will be a 128kb only game. The graphics will take up around 80kb uncompressed. This also includes both teams and the flipped/mirrored sprites too, which should make the game very fast and smooth.
Some sprites like the goal keeper and would need to be compressed as they will be in a restricted area on the screen and will only need a few frames to scroll into view.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 00:32, 02 August 16
Good question and it's definitely not too early in development. Questions like that need to be answered before even creation begins.

The original plan was to have it simulated which is why there are so many animations in the game.  However - as I don't actually play football games* it would be best to have a combination of simulated/technical and arcadey. I don't want it like Emlyn Hughes where headers or diving headers are overly difficult to pull off. I also don't want it like Italia 90 where your constantly doing bicycle kicks and diving headers like nobody's business.

In between the 2 is what the game need to be. I guess - think Pro evo/fifa on the CPC ?





*I'm not into football or football games (though I don't mind Bakuretsu Soccer aka "SuperShot Soccer"due to it's zany supermoves), but I enjoy the animations and AI techniques that are present in football games now. I really do think it's an amazing achievement both in programming and animations.

This makes me really want to produce a good footy game for the CPC.

However - I would be interested in what you guys who do enjoy football games think.
Yeah appreciate what your saying , the game obviously has to be envisioned at the beginning else no plan ends in a mess. I suppose I was trying to sneak out a bit of ....? Wondered if you were finding yourself compromised by issues ? Or you have pretty much got what you thought you could get  out of the machine etc.
Looking forward to some of these projects
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 00:37, 02 August 16
From my perspective , I enjoy footie games that you can build up the play , passing etc. I really not keen on Football games that drive you just to use one player. When you have a feeling of producing a smart bit of tactical attacking ,having to use different techniques against differing teams. Football games that give you the feeling of being a smart player .
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:09, 02 August 16
From my perspective , I enjoy footie games that you can build up the play , passing etc. I really not keen on Football games that drive you just to use one player. When you have a feeling of producing a smart bit of tactical attacking ,having to use different techniques against differing teams. Football games that give you the feeling of being a smart player .

That's what I would like to see too. I would like it to look like a proper football match if you were just to watch it. I think that these latest football games on the present consoles achieve this, because of how much you can see of the pitch. This gives you a lot of options on where to pass the ball. The 8 bit football games usually had larger sprites and a small playing field. Emlyn Hughes is and example of this.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Puresox on 19:59, 02 August 16
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HZw6Voi1E[/youtube] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HZw6Voi1E)


I know this is for Atari ST , but I think it is an interesting vid on Football games. Plus always feel the ST is a 16bit kindred spirit of the Amstrad.


[EDIT Please use the YouTube button to embed your videos]
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Carnivius on 20:30, 02 August 16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HZw6Voi1E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HZw6Voi1E)


I know this is for Atari ST , but I think it is an interesting vid on Football games. Plus always feel the ST is a 16bit kindred spirit of the Amstrad.

Oh I dunno.  I often felt my Amiga was as prone to almost as many lazy ports of ST games as my CPC was with Speccy ports. :P

Loving these fluid wide-pixel football sprites, Sigh. :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Xyphoe on 01:50, 06 August 16
With the amount of graphics involved and how long it will take to code, I suggest keeping it as fun and simple as possible.

As I think I suggested ages ago in this topic, take a look Tecmo World Cup 90, it's not a complicated game but huge fun to play.

But great great work so far!!

I can't tell you how excited I am to potentially see a new footy game on the CPC... as a huge footy game fan I do feel the CPC doesn't have a real standout game. The best ones all have their downsides... eg Emlyn Hughes (my favourite) is too slow and looks drab as it's downside.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 00:02, 08 August 16
With the amount of graphics involved and how long it will take to code, I suggest keeping it as fun and simple as possible.

As I think I suggested ages ago in this topic, take a look Tecmo World Cup 90, it's not a complicated game but huge fun to play.

But great great work so far!!

I can't tell you how excited I am to potentially see a new footy game on the CPC... as a huge footy game fan I do feel the CPC doesn't have a real standout game. The best ones all have their downsides... eg Emlyn Hughes (my favourite) is too slow and looks drab as it's downside.

AHH! It wasn't Italia 90 - I actually meant the game your talking about - Tecmo World Cup 90. :doh:
 I enjoyed the game in the arcades when I was a kid, but it doesn't really feel like football to me, though it was fun to play. I definitely wouldn't like it to be that arcadey. I think that something in between this and Emlyn Hughes would strike a good balance.


Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 14:29, 06 May 17
Any progress made? I'm still curious. Very curious.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 19:37, 06 May 17
Any progress made? I'm still curious. Very curious.

Excellent timing as I've been working on this one for the past few weeks! ;)

I've actually been finishing laying out all the sprites on the sheets and there are 695 frames of animation so far.
I have to layout 1 more goal keeper animation (everything was already animated; just not put onto sheets) and then I have to layout the referee and linesman sprites. I think I may have double up on some of the frames, but i think that the sprite animations will amount to around 750 frames.
As they are 16x16 sprites, they take up around 80kb in graphics.

I'm hoping to get it finished this month along with the goalpost scrolling animation test which would be great, as that will mean I would have finished 2 projects this year (a comic book and the artwork/animation for this football game) making my long checklist of projects a little shorter.

Then it will be the hard task of finding a programmer/s for it. Not going to be easy, as sport games with lots of players need a lot of crazy AI routines.



Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 19:54, 06 May 17
Also - one more thing. I may have mentioned it before, but this thread is quite large to read through.

What do people think of having the option to play as the referee and linesmen? I was thinking that it could be some sort of mini game where you had to make decisions on whether the tackles where fouls or not, or whether the ball was in play or had crossed the goal line properly, or whether there was a handball (executed by a playing pressing the direction of a tackle to early) or time wasting (is that a thing?) or diving.
You would then be given a percentage at the end showing what you got right and what you got wrong. The percentage will show how much control you had in the game, with a low percentage meaning that you had lost control of the game.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 15:04, 07 May 17
What do people think of having the option to play as the referee and linesmen? I was thinking that it could be some sort of mini game where you had to make decisions on whether the tackles where fouls or not, or whether the ball was in play or had crossed the goal line properly, or whether there was a handball (executed by a playing pressing the direction of a tackle to early) or time wasting (is that a thing?) or diving.
You would then be given a percentage at the end showing what you got right and what you got wrong. The percentage will show how much control you had in the game, with a low percentage meaning that you had lost control of the game.

This would be a really innovative concept and I would use it for sure -  but I think there will already be a lot of work to do "only" for the normal football game. And that's what I've been waiting for on CPC since 1987. :-)

Concerning different options... Maybe it could also be an interesting one to be able to act as a physiotherapist of the swedish women team.  ;D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: seanb on 14:03, 08 May 17
Seeing as how utterly hopeless I am at football games to be the referee would be the only way I'll be able to play it.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 15:00, 08 May 17
As a mini-game that could be cool.


80KB of graphics is a lot though! How will that be squeezed into memory for a normal disk load game?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 10:51, 09 May 17
As a mini-game that could be cool.


80KB of graphics is a lot though! How will that be squeezed into memory for a normal disk load game?

80KB is uncompressed, but there will be instances when some animations/frames could be compressed like the referee, linesman and maybe the goal keeper.
Also - 80KB include both teams but they would still need code for mirroring the sprites, but there will only be one goalkeeper. There are also the skin colours too which is very important for the game.
As the scrolling method is approached in a different way, it may be able to set up the screen for 16KB instead of using 32KB, though that may or may not involve sprite flickering. As the game is heavily animated, I can always remove frames from many of the animations.

It's better for me to animate and get everything in that I would want and remove as necessary when running into memory problems. If this does need to happen, then there will be a list of priority animations with the animations on the top of the list, being the most important and should be left alone such as
the run, walk, jog, skip and sprints, as these are the animations that will give the game a simulated feel. The the pass, shoot, tackle and sliding tackle would be next. After that it would be the diving headers, bicycle kick, goalkeeper etc.

We'll see...
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: roudoudou on 13:55, 20 June 18
We'll see...


Any news since last year?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 13:41, 25 June 18
Hi guys/gals,

The sprites have all been laid out. I have also finished the last animation which is the medic:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/XpjIFcM9Gg9hBL08FV/giphy.gif)
So this is it in terms of animations. Everything has been completed and put onto sheets with the correct timings. The only thing for me to do now on the game screen, is the HUD which will be the scoreboard, team names, players name who scored(If I can fit it) and the clock.

I will need to work on the design for "Referee mode". This will basically be a simple game where you referee a match. You will be pitted against "Goal Line Technology" and will have to make the correct decisions regarding fouls, offsides, penalties, fake dives etc. When you make a decision, play will stop and a menu will be displayed showing the referee decision "icons". You will pick one that you think best matches the offence. If you are correct, your rating will go up. If incorrect, your rating will go down. At the end of the game, you will be awarded a rank from NOVICE to MASTER REF.

With the front end of the game, it will have the five following selections:

1) Single Player game
a) Casual
b) Season
c) Tournament(Euro Cup/World Cup/African Nations/Olympics)

2) 2 player Co-op Game
a) Casual
b) Season
c) Tournament(Euro Cup/World Cup/African Nations/Olympics)

3) Vs game
a) Casual
b) Goalie - Manual/Auto
b) Referee - Manual/Auto (3 player game)

4) Mini Games:
a) Referee mode
b) Penalty Shoot out.

5) Edit Team(s)
a) Gender - Male/Female/Mixed
b) Edit Team name
c) Edit Player names
d) Edit colours

6) Options:
a) Timer
b) Difficulty
c) Handball On/Off
d) Diving On/Off
e) Replays On/Off

The main game will have to be loaded separately from the front end due to the size.

Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: villain on 14:52, 25 June 18
Very glad to see that it's still alive. Hoping for a release until the Euro 2020. :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Lazy Dude on 15:24, 27 June 18
Well this all looks exiting.Meantime it's time to go raid the tape collection and see how my footie games are doing .
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 15:53, 27 June 18
Cheers. I'm finally able to ease up on this as there's not much else for me to do, but I'll probably do a mock up screen for referee mode showing the ref icons.To be honest - they are just going to be the animated poses in a box, but I want to find a way to present them onscreen nicely.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 14:19, 25 July 18
Example of hud and crowd/football chants:

(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/Crowd.gif)

I tweaked the crowd by adding more people and a 1 frame pixel overlay that flashes on and off for chants.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: jesusdelmas on 16:14, 25 July 18
Example of hud and crowd/football chants:

(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/Crowd.gif)

I tweaked the crowd by adding more people and a 1 frame pixel overlay that flashes on and off for chants.


Looks good!! if the gameplay is fast and good you will make the best amstrad football game ever! :)
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 02:17, 27 July 18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjjxBa_88pc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjjxBa_88pc)

Matchday 2 has some of the best sound effects in a CPC football game. Nice jingles along with the crowd in the background. When a goal is scored - the crowd noise gets louder, but I was wondering if it is possible to changes the "pitch" of the noise on the CPC sound chip?

It would be nice if the noise was able to be pitched in order to create a variation on atmosphere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8S3u81zc4U
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 10:15, 23 August 18
So glad this project is still alive!


Ref mode - heh that's original :D First we had penalties and goalie minigames, now there's a referee one too? What's next, controlling the medic? :D
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: Gryzor on 13:23, 20 June 19
Anything?
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: sigh on 15:45, 05 July 19
Hello everyone,
Sorry for the late reply. I've been rather busy at work so I haven't been able to do much on the beat em up or football game these past few months. We have two deadlines to meet at work, the last being in August, so I will be back on both projects then.
I was thinking of doing a mock up of how the referee mode will work. But more importantly I need to do a mock up of the Menu and UI for when you are selecting teams, colours and selecting which type of game you want to play.I haven't found any coders for this as yet. It's an extremely challenging game to program due to the amount of animations in the game.
Title: Re: Football Fever (aka - Games with smooth "1" pixel multi directional scrolling.)
Post by: roudoudou on 11:40, 12 July 19
I was thinking of doing a mock up of how the referee mode will work. But more importantly I need to do a mock up of the Menu and UI for when you are selecting teams, colours and selecting which type of game you want to play.I haven't found any coders for this as yet. It's an extremely challenging game to program due to the amount of animations in the game.
Always refractory to a ROM based game? With this even 464 users may play the game and memory limitation is no longer a problem.