Both games -
* Were excellent arcade coversions
* By the same programmer Dave Semmens who did the Spectrum version which was identical apart from the colouring obviously (and it appears his only Amstrad games)
* But sadly both lacked music in game, making a very hollow gaming experience of an otherwise excellent arcade conversion
HOWEVER!
Very interesting topic on the World Of Spectrum forums....
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28189 (http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28189)
Turns out there was music written and is present on the disks!
But never activated in game (presumably because of the slow down it caused)
Is this the same in the Amstrad version? Could anyone take a look and examine?
If so it would be nice to see if we could 'activate' this. It would also help the nice Speccy guys over on that forum who've been struggling to find real disks of both games.
Cheers!
Quote from: Xyphoe on 08:22, 08 September 11
... the nice Speccy guys over on that forum who've been struggling to find real disks of both games.
So... no speccy guy never ever bought an original? :o
Quote from: TFM/FS on 18:03, 08 September 11
So... no speccy guy never ever bought an original? :o
+3 disks are quite rare, Spectrum disk machines never really took off. The 6128 had a good starting lead plus how successful it was in France and Europe generally.
Sadly, it seems to be a nice machine, no CPC though ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 01:01, 09 September 11
Sadly, it seems to be a nice machine, no CPC though ;)
Indeed it was! Well ... what do you expect? It was made by Amstrad! ;D
Yes, but they had to stay compatible!?
Yeah, Speccy+3 was clearly an Amstrad ZX6128... ;D
And it looks like a CPC6128 in black (20%cooler) but with a compact keyboard (minus the num-pad).
Do you know if the hard-plastic keys are compatible ?
Can you take an "A" key on a speccy+3 and put it on an CPC6128 per example ?
What hardware/chip compatibilities actually exist on both machines ?
Disk Drive : is it plugged exactly the same way ? does it uses the same Floppy Disk Controller ?
Well, they share z80, memory chips, fdc and the ay. I think that i didn't forget anything, +3 are great computers to repair CPCs ;D
And if i remember well, the keys are not the same size and the +3 keyboard always looked cheaper and worst than the CPC (of course, it was a big step over the zx 48 keyboard :P )
I won't go way off topic here, but I just got a Speccy +3 for the first time and have listed some of the hardware differences here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2696.msg29826#msg29826 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2696.msg29826#msg29826)
The keyboard keys are very different.
Bryce.
Thx Bryce.
Now I won't go off-topic again here...
So has anyone examined the disks yet?
Turtles CoinOp : http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2184 (http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2184)
Shadow Dancer : http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1911 (http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1911)
Does WinApe provide any tools for finding and extracting music?
Regarding the Speccy version -
QuoteI have just loaded the Russian version and there is a little intro from the hackers which explains things a little bit.
They write (in Russian) that the normal game has music data hidden in the code but music playing is disabled.
They also write that it was very hard to turn music on as the game uses stack a lot and has interrupts disabled all the time so you can't play the music on interrupts.
The don't write it but maybe music playing code expects to be played on interrupts. I can imagine a scenario of bad cooperation between coder and musician. The first wrote the game without interrupts and the second created a music in tracker which uses interrupts
I have added to my TODO list, but i haven't got time to take a look yet :(
Quote from: SyX on 08:17, 13 September 11
I have added to my TODO list, but i haven't got time to take a look yet :(
Thank you SyX :)
Had a quick look...
I think the screen RAM is double buffered (screens at &8000 and &C000) and the sprites appear to be stored from &4000 to &8000. So I'll start looking between &0000 and &4000.
I'm assuming it's a 64kb game?
As told in the ShadowDancer Video thread... and here.
both those games were designed by the same team.
Coding : Dave SEMMENS (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=Dave%20SEMMENS)
Graphics : Doug TOWNSLEY (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=Doug%20TOWNSLEY)
this also Explain why those looks both so saucy and good.
The sad part IMO is that they failed to get it to support 128K RAM properly (if at all).
Doug Townsley seems to be good at Mode0. really.
This is a pleasure to see that for once the speccy guy got help from a real Graphician who spend real time on the CPC.
Also as the same guy did both codes, he could get it right on the porting matters... unlike hiring another guy to do what he can in a too short time and have only partial explanation on the original engine.
Had Shinobi benefited from such graphic quality it could have been even "Epicier" (pun on a french word...).
Had R-Type the same treatment, Fano would re-do another game At the moment...
Well, i have taken a look after lunch, and during the game the only sound subroutine is in $4C9B (send a byte to one of the AY register), and it's only called for the routines that launches the SFXs, it looks that the hidden music isn't in the CPC version.
Ah, you beat me to it! Well done SyX.
Unless it's in a hidden file on the disk somewhere - I thought of this because some games load music independently if there's 128kb of RAM available.
I've only been using the cracked GPA version though because the original has a password protection on it.
the manual has protection codes written in black&white (better than the 1st turtles written in black with dark brown paper).
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&onglet=notices&num=2184 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&onglet=notices&num=2184)
Well, with the original discs, on side 1 there appears to be just the loading screen and the game code.
Side 2 (which I think graphics are loaded from in game) is a bit of a mystery - I can't DIR the files, even using QCMD. It's using some sort of CAT art to stop you listing the files. Also weird they used 2 sides to the disc as there's more than enough room to fit in on 1 side.
Only place it might be left is on side 2 then...?
Hi redbox :)
I didn't look for a hidden files in the disk, your idea is great and it could be something hide in the B Face (this face is loaded by sectors, not files), although it looks that this game only use 64KBs.
And you can disable the password protection changing the CALL $27E0 in $255A to $00,$00,$00 ;)
Quote from: SyX on 16:24, 13 September 11
Hi redbox :)
I didn't look for a hidden files in the disk, your idea is great and it could be something hide in the B Face (this face is loaded by sectors, not files), although it looks that this game only use 64KBs.
And you can disable the password protection changing the CALL $27E0 in $255A to $00,$00,$00 ;)
Only 64 KB? Well, it's time for Fano to start another project ;-)
Looks like Dave Semmens is still around and was quite prominent in the gaming industry -
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/dave-semmens/a/73a/601 (http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/dave-semmens/a/73a/601)
Not so since 2004 when he became project manager at http://www.zoodigital.com/ (http://www.zoodigital.com/) which appears to be a more general software company providing solutions to larger corporations. Maybe I'll dig up an email address for him there and we can ask him about this lol ;)
QuoteOnly 64 KB? Well, it's time for Fano to start another project ;-)
Shadow dancer could deal with some extra sprites animation frames perhaps... ::)
QuoteMaybe I'll dig up an email address for him there and we can ask him about this
Those guys generally don't like the good old youth shames of CPC games... ;D
Well, in this case the games were quite good so perhaps not that much of a shame.
I once tried to ask to the guy who did the GX4000 port of NoExit... never got any responses but this is quite understandable in this case...
Sadly, no Exit had great graphics... but the code simply do not work IMO.
I had better success with the team who did the CPC version of JimPowers though...
Oh yea the No Exit guy appeared on the CPC Zone forums (RIP) to talk about the game ... but I saw his post too late and I sent him several PM's (wanted to interview him for the gx4000.co.uk site) but he never logged in again :(
Hey guys ... any progress or update on this?
Was hoping to do a longplay vid of this soon, but holding off pending on discoveries!
Quote from: Xyphoe on 01:55, 05 October 11
Hey guys ... any progress or update on this?
I'm not up on disc loading routines, so haven't got anything to load the sectors on the B-Side into memory.
However, I guess it's possible to search for routines using something like Discology (unless the data is packed)...? If so, looking for a routine other than the FX one found by SyX might reveal that there's something in there...
Well, i was going to said that in the second disk of TMHT there is only graphics and level data, no code and because that the only sound routine during the game is for Sound FXs.
And then i have taken another look and... it's totally truth :o There are hidden songs!!! ;D
I have attached an snapshot, you can hear them easily from WinApe, F7 to go to the debugger, put a breakpoint in $5C46, load the snapshot, F9 to go back to the CPC, and when the debugger appears, change the value from the A register from $00 to a number between $00 -$ 0B to hear one of the twelve songs, F9 and you can hear the new musics during the menu ;)
I could rip the music to a CPC executable for easier play, but i don't think it' possible to enable the music during the game, for starting the game run without interrupts enabled, the music player code doesn't exist during the game (it can be disabled because they had not enoguh ram, 64KBs game), but i think that the real reason is similar to the zx spectrum version, the music player take a lot of CPU, you can hear how during the select controls screen the music sound slower, during the game would destroy all the playability.
With respect to Shadow Dancer, the game is a 64KBs game and the menu is always in memory, because that there is no ram to the luxury of a hidden music, but i will take another look.
Well done!!!
Really great work SyX.
Would be nice to rip the music for prosperity, and to show the Speccy boys how it's done ;)
Quote from: SyX on 17:23, 05 October 11
Well, i was going to said that in the second disk of TMHT there is only graphics and level data, no code and because that the only sound routine during the game is for Sound FXs.
And then i have taken another look and... it's totally truth :o There are hidden songs!!! ;D
I have attached an snapshot, you can hear them easily from WinApe, F7 to go to the debugger, put a breakpoint in $5C46, load the snapshot, F9 to go back to the CPC, and when the debugger appears, change the value from the A register from $00 to a number between $00 -$ 0B to hear one of the twelve songs, F9 and you can hear the new musics during the menu ;)
I could rip the music to a CPC executable for easier play, but i don't think it' possible to enable the music during the game, for starting the game run without interrupts enabled, the music player code doesn't exist during the game (it can be disabled because they had not enoguh ram, 64KBs game), but i think that the real reason is similar to the zx spectrum version, the music player take a lot of CPU, you can hear how during the select controls screen the music sound slower, during the game would destroy all the playability.
With respect to Shadow Dancer, the game is a 64KBs game and the menu is always in memory, because that there is no ram to the luxury of a hidden music, but i will take another look.
Hi SyX!
That is a fantastic find!!!!
Well done!
Unfortunately I have a problem trying to get this to work -
What version of WinApe did you use?
Which disk dump did you use?
In the snapshot did you also save the "Disc in Drive A:"?
Maybe I might have misunderstood your instructions as I'm a dumbass :P
Just click the Snapshot :-)
Quote from: SyX on 17:23, 05 October 11
I have attached an snapshot, you can hear them easily from WinApe, F7 to go to the debugger, put a breakpoint in $5C46, load the snapshot, F9 to go back to the CPC, and when the debugger appears, change the value from the A register from $00 to a number between $00 -$ 0B to hear one of the twelve songs, F9 and you can hear the new musics during the menu ;)
Is this the right instructions?
1) Open WinApe
2) Hit F7
3) Goto $5C46 and hit F5 to put a breakpoint in.
4) File menu > Load Snapshot > select "tortugas.sna" > Open
5) Hit F9
I now get the loading screen messed up with yellow/pink/green colours ... mostly yellow ... and a small blue border at the bottom of the screen.
The debugger screen immediately re-appears
This next bit I don't know what to do -
"change the value from the A register from $00 to a number between $00 -$ 0B"
Where do I find the "A register" to change?
I see a bit further down at 5C85 the instruction "LD A,#02" ... does that mean 'load the A register with 02'?
(tried changing that and it failed, just playing the same note one channel constantly! so probably not!)
If I can do this, I'll rip WAV's of each of the songs for everyone.
Cracked it!
On the debugger in the top right hand corner - under "Flags", you want the "AF" and the four digit field to edit next to it.
It should show "0040", change this to "0140", "0240", "0340", etc (you will need to reload the snapshot each time first of course before trying next piece of music)
And wow they sound really damn good so far .... !!!!!
There are even some intermission, game over, etc musics!!!
Hey guys,
Just to whet your appetites, here's one of the tunes attached (#5) - pretty cool stuff!
I'm going to make WAV's of each of them, and I'll be doing a longplay video so will add in the music over the top in the relevant places :D
I'll also get in touch with the World Of Spectrum guys about the find :)
I tried last night. Really impressive !! :) Good job, SyX !!
Thanks Everybody!!! ;D
I have ripped the songs and made a menu to hear them easier ;)
UPDATE: Sorry DSK fixed, download again :P
Wow! Thanks SyX.
Hopefully these great songs can be implemented one day...
Quote from: SyX on 10:19, 06 October 11
Thanks Everybody!!! ;D
I have ripped the songs and made a menu to hear them easier ;)
Am I doing something wrong, but I can't seem to get MUSIC 09 to play via the menu?
EDIT: Ok, got it! Just
POKE &53EF,&3A...
Thanks tastefulmrship for the bug report ;)
Sorry for the inconvenience, i have update the .DSK in the preview post ... my bad, there was a lot of noise in my work and i thought that i had "hear" every song :P
Great job and great music !!
great!.The songs sound very good!.
Quotebut i think that the real reason is similar to the zx spectrum version, the music player take a lot of CPU, you can hear how during the select controls screen the music sound slower, during the game would destroy all the playability.
And in plus using sound dma?.(winape is a plus emulator)
Quote from: dragon on 16:37, 06 October 11And in plus using sound dma?.(winape is a plus emulator)
You would need to understand the music player perfectly to convert it at a CPC+ DMA song list... It's possible, but it's so boring and time consuming :P
Quote from: SyX on 18:13, 06 October 11
You would need to understand the music player perfectly to convert it at a CPC+ DMA song list... It's possible, but it's so boring and time consuming :P
Yes and you must understand the copper code too, and you need a lot of memory in addition.
Better: Use a good player!
Me? Got no time!
That's the one thing really missing from emulators - the ability to rip music.
I know WinAPE records YM, but you still have to start/stop it and it doesn't detect loops or trim the files for you.
If we could record it properly, we could use a really fast player and patch it into some games etc.
Great pure digital archaeology! :)
/Ygdrazil
Quote from: SyX on 10:19, 06 October 11
Thanks Everybody!!! ;D
I have ripped the songs and made a menu to hear them easier ;)
UPDATE: Sorry DSK fixed, download again :P
Thanks a lot!!!
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 14:03, 07 October 11
Great pure digital archaeology! :)
/Ygdrazil
Precisely my thinking! There's something to discovering tunes buried decades ago... *sigh*
Added to front-page news, btw :)
Thanks... but without Xyphoe and this thread i would not have discovered anything ;)
This is true, that's why I linked to the forum instead of the file directly :)
great job, guys!
Quote from: SyX on 19:52, 09 October 11
Thanks... but without Xyphoe and this thread i would not have discovered anything ;)
But I must then give thanks to Swainy on YouTube and World Of Spectrum forums for bringing it to my attention in the first place :)
Thanks again SyX for the hard work and making that disk! Brilliant work, this is precisely why this forum and place is brilliant! You did in a few days what the guys on the WOS forums still haven't done in well over a year! ;)
Oh and Longplay video done of the gameplay, tonight I will be adding in the new musics and adding commentary explaining - should be online by tomorrow morning fingers crossed.
little off topic, sorry...but I need to answer this...cause is my matter (see my avatar)
Quote from: MacDeath on 11:32, 09 September 11
Yeah, Speccy+3 was clearly an Amstrad ZX6128... ;D And it looks like a CPC6128 in black (20%cooler) but with a compact keyboard (minus the num-pad).
Do you know if the hard-plastic keys are compatible ?
Can you take an "A" key on a speccy+3 and put it on an CPC6128 per example ?
(...)Disk Drive : is it plugged exactly the same way ? does it uses the same Floppy Disk Controller ?
Yes!!! You could see photos of my mods in my
ever in construction seedy web page (http://galeon.hispavista.com/amstrad/restyling.html)...(sorry in spanish, but photos are in Esperanto!! :laugh: )
"Black is beautiful", I like my CPCs with BLACK keyboards. Next mod: CPC+ with black keyboard and black case... :o
And yes, FDD is plugged the same way. Cousin +3 is a great machine too (is amstrad too), compatible in disk format with PCW.
And now, inside topic: Thanks Syx and Xyphoe for this new music for AY-CPC... 8)
Two hints:
- Red on Blue is really, really hard to read
- A English version would be appreciated
I like the "CPC6128 "blanco y negro"" the most :-)))
I always loved the colorful look from the 464 and felt the 6128's gray keys so boring :P
But well, i love the Amiga 500's special limited editions (http://www.google.com/search?hl=es&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&q=Stefanie+T%C3%BCcking+amiga&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=8888l10428l0l11168l7l6l0l0l0l0l287l1297l0.2.4l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=893&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi) designed by Stefanie Tücking, too ;D ... i haven't fix xDDD
sweet...
I do prefer the colourful keys - red for escape, green for the others, blue for Enter...
But that Amiga looks soooo silly and early 90's... :D
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:31, 11 October 11
sweet...
You shall look at the COMPUTER, not elsewhere :laugh:
Sorry for the delay in the video, turns out there was horrible sound corruption throughout (before adding the music in) when using the latest version of WinApe (I'll speak to Executioner about this, previously I had been using a pre-release version of 2.0a18 he had emailed me).
Vid's been re-recorded and most of SyX's found music has been added, hopefully will be all down for tomorrow morning.
Counting the hours ;)
Finally done! Holy cow that took a lot of audio editing!!!! :o But I think the results are worth it and shows how just even better this already excellent game could have been -
[AMSTRAD CPC] Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles : The Coin-Op - Longplay (+ hidden music added!!) & Review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8VcI7hA_so#)
Argh... and I wanted to do some work... :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 08:09, 14 October 11
Argh... and I wanted to do some work... :D
Right! And I try to get lunch ... l8er then...
Quote from: Xyphoe on 07:30, 14 October 11Finally done!
How do you know what music was to use with what level ? ::)
Is it possible for someone hack in the music for the GX4000 or plus machines?
Quote from: TotO on 22:49, 14 October 11
How do you know what music was to use with what level ? ::)
Comparing the soundtracks and music on the arcade version, I have it on my MAME cab at home. To be honest I did it quickly so may have made a mistake here and there, there are at least 2 missing music soundtracks that were in the arcade version (like the 2nd level) so used the most appropriate sounding.
Quote from: SyXI'm going to patch the game for adding musics
Realy!?
Thank you so much, it's great!!! :-*
(ok, it's a fake quote... But, I'll like to read that now... Not you? ;D )
xDDDDDD
thanks for the dsk file Syx.
Vous êtes le bienvenu :)
Hi there,
Just for information, i've already ripped all the turttles 2 musics (with hidden ones) a lot of years ago, you can find it here:
(http://cpcrulez.fr/Scene_MusicDiscs/index.php?rech=shap (http://cpcrulez.fr/Scene_MusicDiscs/index.php?rech=shap))
(Disk T)
8) 8)
Oops :D