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General Category => Games => Topic started by: Joseman on 13:28, 17 September 16

Title: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Joseman on 13:28, 17 September 16
Hi

Batman Group (creators of Batman Forever Demo)  returns this time with a game that (again) will break 8bit/CPC schemes/scenes!.

Sorry, the page is in spanish, i Just found it about 5 mins. No time to traslate!

Batman Group vuelve dispuesto a demostrar el verdadero potencial del Amstrad (http://retroinvaders.com/es/77067/batman-group-vuelve-dispuesto-a-demostrar-el-verdadero-potencial-del-amstrad-cpc)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SRS on 18:09, 17 September 16
https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fretroinvaders.com%2Fes%2F77067%2Fbatman-group-vuelve-dispuesto-a-demostrar-el-verdadero-potencial-del-amstrad-cpc (https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fretroinvaders.com%2Fes%2F77067%2Fbatman-group-vuelve-dispuesto-a-demostrar-el-verdadero-potencial-del-amstrad-cpc)

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: seanb on 18:28, 17 September 16
"Batman Group continues to insist on demonstrating that the machine was totally wasted during the commercial life of it. And we warn. "Although it will be the game technically advancing CPC to date, is still far from reaching the true potential of Amstrad According to our estimates, Pinball Dreams will use around 40% of the potential, Batman Forever will be around 60 % while the classic commercial software rarely exceeded 10%. "

Oh I hope that's true and we start to see software that backs up this claim.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 22:18, 17 September 16
Quote from: seanb on 18:28, 17 September 16
"Batman Group continues to insist on demonstrating that the machine was totally wasted during the commercial life of it. And we warn. "Although it will be the game technically advancing CPC to date, is still far from reaching the true potential of Amstrad According to our estimates, Pinball Dreams will use around 40% of the potential, Batman Forever will be around 60 % while the classic commercial software rarely exceeded 10%. "

Oh I hope that's true and we start to see software that backs up this claim.


Just for the record, a preview exist for C64, but they never finished it lol.


If the batman group gets a winner, mmhh yummy :) arh arh arh !
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: AMSDOS on 23:18, 17 September 16
Quote from: Batman Group on 18:28, 17 September 16
"Batman Group continues to insist on demonstrating that the machine was totally wasted during the commercial life of it. And we warn. "Although it will be the game technically advancing CPC to date, is still far from reaching the true potential of Amstrad According to our estimates, Pinball Dreams will use around 40% of the potential, Batman Forever will be around 60 % while the classic commercial software rarely exceeded 10%. "


So does that mean a 64k 464 could potentially load a 42k program from Tape in 2 Secs?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: EgoTrip on 23:19, 17 September 16
Is this being entered into the CPCretrodev contest?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 23:45, 17 September 16
Quote from: AMSDOS on 23:18, 17 September 16

So does that mean a 64k 464 could potentially load a 42k program from Tape in 2 Secs?


I got proved that a 464 can load tapes recorded at 6500 bauds.


i tested that on my 464, Turrican 2 intro part played in 1mn05, and each level took 20 seconds to load :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 07:39, 18 September 16
Oh wow. I love Pinballs on the computer - just yesterday I downloaded the full, 13-table Epic Pinball version. How I wish this gets released!!!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 10:15, 18 September 16
Quote from: AMSDOS on 23:18, 17 September 16

So does that mean a 64k 464 could potentially load a 42k program from Tape in 2 Secs?


Batman Group likes to distort reality  ;D


But if they release a pinball with their flipping mode to gainz some colors, in vertical fullscreen, maybe with a scrolling, it would be very, very nice!


I cant' wait to see the result!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 10:25, 18 September 16
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?


Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arnoldemu on 10:27, 18 September 16
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 10:25, 18 September 16
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?


Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.
For some people yes. When has Rhino talked about something and never delivered?

EDIT: Removed "promised" and put "talked about".

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Ast on 10:30, 18 September 16
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 10:25, 18 September 16
Why not shots of the actual game?




Just maybe to keep the full surprise? Don't Know, but does it look clear ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: reidrac on 10:31, 18 September 16
Quote from: EgoTrip on 23:19, 17 September 16
Is this being entered into the CPCretrodev contest?

If the can make it following the restrictions of the contest (64K, one single load), that would be extra-impressive :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Singaja on 11:10, 18 September 16
Quote from: reidrac on 10:31, 18 September 16
If the can make it following the restrictions of the contest (64K, one single load), that would be extra-impressive :D
Considering Rhino did patch the original firmware on the fly in Batman Demo to access more space on the disk my educated guess is it's not likely.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:22, 18 September 16
Quote from: Singaja on 11:10, 18 September 16
Considering Rhino did patch the original firmware on the fly in Batman Demo to access more space on the disk my educated guess is it's not likely.
No. There was no patching of firmware.
The disc used a custom disc format with more sectors.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:08, 18 September 16
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 22:18, 17 September 16

Just for the record, a preview exist for C64, but they never finished it lol.


Somewhere I read that the Pinball Dreams project for C64 was because of a bet.
Well, after more than 10 years, I think that who believed he could do it on C64 should pay the bet.


Quote from: Singaja on 11:10, 18 September 16
Considering Rhino did patch the original firmware on the fly in Batman Demo to access more space on the disk my educated guess is it's not likely.

I did nothing with the disc in BF nor Pinball Dreams, it was Arnoldemu.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 12:13, 18 September 16
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 10:25, 18 September 16
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?


Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.

As it was said in before, we are talking about Rhino here  :) I am really confident that he has something truly amazing to show us and it is not going to be vaporware!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 12:24, 18 September 16
Quote from: Rhino on 12:08, 18 September 16
Somewhere I read that the Pinball Dreams project for C64 was because of a bet.
Well, after more than 10 years, I think that who believed he could do it on C64 should pay the bet.


I did nothing with the disc in BF nor Pinball Dreams, it was Arnoldemu.


I have one question : we've all seen the screens converted from the amiga in Perfect pix, but which mode will you use for the ingame ?


Will it be mode 0 or mode 1 with extended palette ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 14:20, 18 September 16
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 12:24, 18 September 16

I have one question : we've all seen the screens converted from the amiga in Perfect pix, but which mode will you use for the ingame ?


Will it be mode 0 or mode 1 with extended palette ?


I also want to propose if needed to post the Pinball Dreams graphic assets from the Amiga version :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 18:15, 18 September 16
For some reason I doubt Rhino will share any details before the release; he likes to surprise :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Kris on 18:19, 18 September 16
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:15, 18 September 16
For some reason I doubt Rhino will share any details before the release; he likes to surprise :D


And he is right ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:46, 18 September 16
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 12:24, 18 September 16

I have one question : we've all seen the screens converted from the amiga in Perfect pix, but which mode will you use for the ingame ?


Will it be mode 0 or mode 1 with extended palette ?

Many graphic techniques are involved, some of them have not been implemented in games before. But what I'm proud of, though it is a personal feeling, it is that after playing around with Pinball Dreams on CPC, the Amiga version seems less real.
Nothing else I can say.



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 23:22, 18 September 16
PDreams is the best pinball for me till today.
Can't wait to play it on my cpc  :-X
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:24, 18 September 16
I personally prefer SlamTilt AGA on the a1200. But I too cannot wait for Pinball Dreams on the CPC.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 07:11, 19 September 16
Quote from: Rhino on 22:46, 18 September 16
Many graphic techniques are involved, some of them have not been implemented in games before. But what I'm proud of, though it is a personal feeling, it is that after playing around with Pinball Dreams on CPC, the Amiga version seems less real.
Nothing else I can say.
Nice. You make it very easy to wait. :-\
(I loved playing Pinball Dreams on PC!)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ervin on 07:40, 19 September 16
Yes indeed, REALLY looking forward to this one.
*Loved* PB back in the day on the Amiga, so seeing it on the CPC will be something truly special.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 17:24, 19 September 16
The R-Type FDC does great things like auto-unpack and the sources are availables...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Joseman on 23:20, 19 September 16
I just remembered that @SuTeKH/Epyteor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=466) converted some Pinball Dreams tunes early this year...

Perhaps only a coincidence?  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 23:33, 19 September 16
Quote from: Joseman on 23:20, 19 September 16
I just remembered that @SuTeKH/Epyteor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=466) converted some Pinball Dreams tunes early this year...

Perhaps only a coincidence?  ;)


:laugh:   :P
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 05:30, 20 September 16
The CPC lives
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TFM on 15:44, 20 September 16
Flynn lives!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 17:49, 23 September 16
Would love it if someone converted Robocop 3 to the CPC...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 07:49, 28 September 16
From the spectrum release ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:14, 28 September 16
I look forward to sticking this on my C4CPC :-) If it will fit in a 512KB cart space and run on a 64KB GX4000...


But it's not just the graphical work (I guess a board would be >80KB of graphics data on the CPC - a couple of screenfuls for the board (overscan?) plus the lit/unlit graphics), but things like how the pinball moves on the furniture (ramps, tracks, etc)... a big project indeed!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arnoldemu on 13:47, 28 September 16
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:14, 28 September 16
I look forward to sticking this on my C4CPC :-) If it will fit in a 512KB cart space and run on a 64KB GX4000...


But it's not just the graphical work (I guess a board would be >80KB of graphics data on the CPC - a couple of screenfuls for the board (overscan?) plus the lit/unlit graphics), but things like how the pinball moves on the furniture (ramps, tracks, etc)... a big project indeed!
it has a custom disc loader so you can't put it onto c4cpc.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 15:14, 28 September 16
Quote from: arnoldemu on 13:47, 28 September 16
it has a custom disc loader so you can't put it onto c4cpc.


Like many games back in the days  :P
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 18:37, 28 September 16
Quote from: kawickboy on 07:49, 28 September 16
From the spectrum release ?

Could the Amiga version be ported? In theory? But I was thinking of the Speccy - with CPC graphics of course
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 16:40, 30 September 16
The day before Christmas, waiting waiting and very excited  :D :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TFM on 18:47, 30 September 16
Since quite a while I also think about a Pinball Simulator for the CPC, MacDeath already sent me some nice picks. I'm curious who this one looks compared to my ideas.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 06:57, 01 October 16
Quote from: TFM on 18:47, 30 September 16
Since quite a while I also think about a Pinball Simulator for the CPC, MacDeath already sent me some nice picks. I'm curious who this one looks compared to my ideas.

Would be great to see that too😊
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:17, 01 October 16
Quote from: TFM on 18:47, 30 September 16
Since quite a while I also think about a Pinball Simulator for the CPC, MacDeath already sent me some nice picks. I'm curious who this one looks compared to my ideas.

It is a working in progress? or you can show something?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 14:57, 01 October 16
I believe Time Scanner is the best pinball game so far on the CPC... But everything is about to change!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 15:42, 01 October 16
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:57, 01 October 16
I believe Time Scanner is the best pinball game so far on the CPC... But everything is about to change!


Ooooh, i miss this one! My favorite was Microball
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TFM on 21:17, 01 October 16

Quote from: Rhino on 14:17, 01 October 16
It is a working in progress? or you can show something?
Not now. IMHO your project is way advanced in time.  :)

My idea is basically to use the first 64 KB fully as screen RAM. And display it for example as 16*32 (MODE 0). So the screen is four times more high than width.
This way you put GFX only once in the first 64 KB, the background. It stays there as long as you use this particular pin ball machine.
The big advantage is that you actually only have to scroll um and down, but don't need to write background GFX anylonger. All CPU time would be left to animations (Sound, math, etc.)

It doensn't have to be in that format you can make the screen more width too if you like.

But how so often, I kind of miss the time at the moment to realize it that way.

I'm really looking forward to Pinball Dreams from Rhino!!!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 17:09, 02 October 16
Quote from: TFM on 21:17, 01 October 16
Not now. IMHO your project is way advanced in time.  :)

My idea is basically to use the first 64 KB fully as screen RAM. And display it for example as 16*32 (MODE 0). So the screen is four times more high than width.
This way you put GFX only once in the first 64 KB, the background. It stays there as long as you use this particular pin ball machine.
The big advantage is that you actually only have to scroll um and down, but don't need to write background GFX anylonger. All CPU time would be left to animations (Sound, math, etc.)

It doensn't have to be in that format you can make the screen more width too if you like.

But how so often, I kind of miss the time at the moment to realize it that way.

I'm really looking forward to Pinball Dreams from Rhino!!!  :) :) :)

Sounds good! Usually boards are not more than 2 times high that width, or do you mean to have a double buffer for the board? and what you had thought for the scoreboard on the top of the screen?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TFM on 18:10, 02 October 16
Well, you can design it of course in a way which fits taste and reality :)  The idea is to omit horizontal scrolling and by this being able to load the background only once and "just" scroll up and down (which can be done pixel pricise and is very smooth, so being able to keep the ball in the center of the screen or where ever you like). Of course you can use a screen format as width as the CPC screen.


The great thing about a silver ball is that its speed can be everything from fast too slow, and Y-scrolling on the CPC is precise to the scan line. What a nice choreography.  ;) :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 20:46, 02 October 16
Quote from: TFM on 18:10, 02 October 16
Well, you can design it of course in a way which fits taste and reality :)  The idea is to omit horizontal scrolling and by this being able to load the background only once and "just" scroll up and down (which can be done pixel pricise and is very smooth, so being able to keep the ball in the center of the screen or where ever you like). Of course you can use a screen format as width as the CPC screen.


The great thing about a silver ball is that its speed can be everything from fast too slow, and Y-scrolling on the CPC is precise to the scan line. What a nice choreography.  ;) :)

You're right. Horizontal scroll destroys a pinball game, such as the SNES port of Pinball Dreams.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 16:46, 03 October 16
Is there a time scale , that us CPC fans can look forward too?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 06:32, 05 October 16
Quote from: Puresox on 16:46, 03 October 16
Is there a time scale , that us CPC fans can look forward too?


October 2016!!!?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 09:52, 05 October 16
Quote from: Puresox on 16:46, 03 October 16
Is there a time scale , that us CPC fans can look forward too?

This month we will show a preview in RetroSevilla, and a little later we will release the preview.
The date for the final version not yet know, but possibly match an event / party.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 12:38, 05 October 16
Oh, yes, great. Maybe you can post after RetroSeville some images for stimulation purpose? ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dodogildo on 19:20, 06 October 16


Quote from: Gryzor on 07:39, 18 September 16
Oh wow. I love Pinballs on the computer !!!!

[emoji106] And I love pinball everywhere [emoji16]

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 06:24, 07 October 16
The next retrogaming meeting I'll be having with my mates will be the first weekend in November. Would be awesome to show it off there.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 18:18, 13 October 16
I remember picking up the two-disc Fairlight crack of Pinball Dreams from a Bamiga Sector-One & Kent Team party! I loved it and played it constantly on my 1mb A500! I'd even leave the menu running to listen to Blazier's amazing music!
My favourite table still is Nightmare (the music is mesmerising), but Beat Box was the one I played the most as I could get most of the jackpots and a huge score on each game!

I am really looking forward to seeing the CPC version of this amazing, and very famous, Amiga title! No pressure! ^_^

Looks like October 2016 will be a great month for CPC game releases and new CPC graphic modes!


Quote from: zeropolis79 on 17:49, 23 September 16Would love it if someone converted Robocop 3 to the CPC...
I've done the C64 title music (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/demos/wip-now-that's-what-i-call-chip-tunes-(winape)/msg133703/#msg133703)... it's a start!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Joseman on 08:09, 24 October 16
Here some pics of Retrosevilla showing Pinball Dreams!

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2lucr3m.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/9a5qqc.jpg)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Dubliner on 09:11, 24 October 16
A friend sent me a video of the game recorded with a phone and OMG the hype is over 9000.

Smoothest scroll i have ever seen on a CPC.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: alex76gr on 09:13, 24 October 16
Please share!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 09:36, 24 October 16
Quote from: Dubliner on 09:11, 24 October 16Smoothest scroll i have ever seen on a CPC.
It is a standard 25Hz double buffer vertical scrolling with rupture. Nicelly done.
No magic, as Rhino said. The game was well chosen to look great on a CPC. (don't try to put cube into circle and all goes fine)

Pinball Dreams look really promissing!  8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 09:51, 24 October 16
This is a game you need to play on real hardware (connected to a loud stereo with a decent sub-woofer)... because any video will not do the game justice! It lives up to the hype and then more!


Shame the menu & in-game music is so shyte! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: reidrac on 10:07, 24 October 16
Quote from: TotO on 09:36, 24 October 16
(don't try to put cube into circle and all goes fine)

Spot on!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:56, 24 October 16
Hi and thanks!

I would like to release the preview in a few days, and for that we are polishing some details. Is there a cat-art master who wants to participate?

Quote from: TotO on 09:36, 24 October 16
It is a standard 25Hz double buffer vertical scrolling with rupture. Nicelly done.

TotO usually do right analysis, but I fear that this time is not the case: no 25hz, no double buffer, no standar rupture. :)

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 13:19, 24 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 12:56, 24 October 16TotO usually do right analysis, but I fear that this time is not the case: no 25hz, no double buffer, no standar rupture. :)
Haha. I have expected that you are using fliped pictures to increase the ingame colours. Wrong speculation...  :-\
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 13:21, 24 October 16
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 09:51, 24 October 16
Shame the menu & in-game music is so shyte! ^_^

No New Orleans style? :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 13:37, 24 October 16
There's a big french retro-gaming meeting this week-end, should we have something to show ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 14:15, 24 October 16
Quote from: kawickboy on 13:37, 24 October 16There's a big french retro-gaming meeting this week-end, should we have something to show ?
See you at the RGC.  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 17:40, 24 October 16
Quote from: kawickboy on 13:37, 24 October 16
There's a big french retro-gaming meeting this week-end, should we have something to show?

I hope so, we are working out the details to publish the preview in a few days.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 20:42, 24 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 17:40, 24 October 16
I hope so, we are working out the details to publish the preview in a few days.


Oh oh oh oh XD


I guess some c64 fanboys are going to have their asses in fire lol 


I would even kill to watch simply a short video of Pinball Dreams CPC :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 21:53, 24 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 12:56, 24 October 16
I would like to release the preview in a few days, and for that we are polishing some details. Is there a cat-art master who wants to participate?

Have you contacted Supersly? He's pretty experienced at designing CAT'arts (http://cpc.sylvestre.org/projets/projets_cat.html).
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 00:18, 25 October 16
Quote from: Nich on 21:53, 24 October 16
Have you contacted Supersly? He's pretty experienced at designing CAT'arts (http://cpc.sylvestre.org/projets/projets_cat.html).

Thanks!, I just asked him :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:57, 27 October 16

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=68387 (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=68387)




* Note that the video does not show the 50 fps properly, so it should be tested on real CPC + monitor!

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Ast on 15:24, 27 October 16
Great first preview ! I like it...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 15:27, 27 October 16
Mucho apologies to Olof Gustafsson, McKlain and anyone with ears! ^_^
Many thanks to EgoTrip for finalising some of the instruments for me!

The full release will have much better music/sfx as McKlain will do it, rather than me! He's just a little busy right now!!!
(Congrats, fella!)

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 15:31, 27 October 16
It's very nice and of course the best pinball game ever released on CPC  8)


Is the ball management in final version?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Kris on 15:40, 27 October 16
Looks very good; hope to see the fianl version asap :)

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Xifos on 15:42, 27 October 16
Ok that's good for the pinball dreams cpc version !

Now you can adapt pinball fantaisies !
;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: krusty_benediction on 15:46, 27 October 16
I do not know the original pinball game no the other CPC ones, but it seems very good.
I have not understand why it is a preview ; what is missing ? Only the drawing of the 4 tables ?

Anyway good job for the scrolling synchronization with the ball, I have not lots of reflexes, and I do not lose the ball from the eyes
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 16:19, 27 October 16
Quote from: roudoudou on 15:31, 27 October 16
It's very nice and of course the best pinball game ever released on CPC  8)


Is the ball management in final version?

The ball physics are included in this preview. Press F1 to start playing.

The keys are:

* Control / shift left for left flipper
* Enter / backward slash for right flipper
* Cursor down to launch the ball
* Space to push the board

If you use an emulator, you may need to configure the keys.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 16:24, 27 October 16
Quote from: krusty_benediction on 15:46, 27 October 16
I do not know the original pinball game no the other CPC ones, but it seems very good.
I have not understand why it is a preview ; what is missing ? Only the drawing of the 4 tables ?

Anyway good job for the scrolling synchronization with the ball, I have not lots of reflexes, and I do not lose the ball from the eyes

Thanks!
Only one of the four boards is included, and the preview does not count scores/lives, etc... in short, what makes the game fun :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 16:28, 27 October 16
I would also like to publicly thank to SuTeKH for their hard work on music. Without him the preview had not been on time!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Hwikaa on 16:42, 27 October 16
Simply put: this is nothing short of amazing.  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 16:49, 27 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 16:28, 27 October 16
I would also like to publicly thank to SuTeKH for their hard work on music. Without him the preview had not been on time!
Thank you, sir! You're too kind! But, I did under 1% of the work. All praise should be for you, Mac, arnoldemu and McKlain!

NOTE:
I class myself as a "professional" PINBALL DREAMS player (since 1992 on a 500+, 600 & 1200/060) and this is simply an astonishing version of that Amiga OCS/ECS classic on the humble Amstrad CPC!! I always dreamed of seeing it on my 8-bit machine... and here it is! DREAMS DO COME TRUE! ^_^ What's next? CarVup? Paradroid'90? Bill's Tomato Game?

Many people say PINBALL ILLUSIONS or SLAM TILT (not written by The Silents, by the way) is the best pinball simulator on Amiga... but to me, PINBALL DREAMS is the one that started it all and the one that's the best! Long live NIGHTMARE, BEAT BOX, IGNITION and that other one that was shyte! (Sorry, I always hated STEEL WHEEL! ^_^ And, it's even worse when you're converting the music for it!!!! TRUST ME!)


-----------------------------------------


October 2016 will be held in high regard as the month that introduced the CPC community to some of the best CPC games and some new, amazing graphics MODEs! Be it adventures, mah-Jong, pinball, or whatever... it's a great time to be an Amstrad fan! ^_^ -yay-

From what I've seen from the RetroDev compo too, it looks like the CPC is indeed the best 8-bit machine!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 16:54, 27 October 16
Quote from: Xifos on 15:42, 27 October 16
Ok that's good for the pinball dreams cpc version !

Now you can adapt pinball fantaisies !
;)

Well, considering that this preview is a "stress test" with all the lights and scoreboard changing, and only consumes about 50% of the frame, I think Amstrad could do Pinball Dreams + Pinball Fantasies simultaneously in one frame :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Xifos on 17:06, 27 October 16
I just tried it.
It's amazing, the same gameplay as the amiga.

So well done the batman group !
:)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 17:11, 27 October 16
I think that this is as amazing as it gets, seriously. I am itching to try it at home because I´ve never seen a game of this kind as fast as responsive as this one seems to be in a CPC. I am seriously impressed  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 17:56, 27 October 16
Thank you very much!!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Neil79 on 17:59, 27 October 16
Wicked! I'll be playing this over the weekend, can't now as I'm injured :(


But here's a quicky http://www.indieretronews.com/2016/10/pinball-dreams-preview-fantastic-amiga.html
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: alex76gr on 18:11, 27 October 16
For my eyes and ears this is a wonder! :o
Absolutely impressive!
Thank you so much.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 18:27, 27 October 16
Quote from: alex76gr on 18:11, 27 October 16
For my eyes and ears this is a wonder! :o
Absolutely impressive!
Thank you so much.


True my brother!
And the funny thing is that it needs only a Falcon to run on Atari  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 19:35, 27 October 16
I can't even begin to understand how you have achieved this awesomeness! It looks and sounds amazing plus plays just like the Amiga original even to the point I can do the same tricks with the flippers and the ball reacts just as it did!

Amazing! Well done to all involved! Can't wait for the full game!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Geo Anas on 19:44, 27 October 16
This is what I call MAGIC !

My hearty and sincere RESPECT !
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Targhan on 19:51, 27 October 16
I swore I would wait for the final version but... I couldn't resist :). Great stuff, very smooth. The physics are very well done (that's the kind of stuff I would hate to code :)). The graphics are, so far, very good and the introduction flipping screens are quite interesting too, I especially liked the fade colors. And the music are very nice too.


Great work!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dirtybb on 19:54, 27 October 16

Hi

Let me think, as a macadam bumper lover, what could i say... Just stunning, impressive, awesome.
Graphics, colors, effects, scrolling... more than perfect. And music is... dope !

Thank you for all the hard work, to you Rhino and all those involved.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 20:37, 27 October 16
Quote from: Maniac on 19:35, 27 October 16
I can't even begin to understand how you have achieved this awesomeness! It looks and sounds amazing plus plays just like the Amiga original even to the point I can do the same tricks with the flippers and the ball reacts just as it did!

Amazing! Well done to all involved! Can't wait for the full game!

Thanks!
Physics is still one of the points to be adjusted for the final version. The goal is to be as close to the original as possible.
I appreciate the feedback from experts of the original version!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lone on 21:03, 27 October 16
Wow, just tried it, and I still can't believe it !
Really awesome work !


Congratulation to the whole team (as every part of it is so well done)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 21:20, 27 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 20:37, 27 October 16
Thanks!
Physics is still one of the points to be adjusted for the final version. The goal is to be as close to the original as possible.
I appreciate the feedback from experts of the original version!


Congratulations, you did again an awesome job. I have already people from C64 or even Amiga which want to buy a CPC just to play it :)


but..... i hear them say "the sound is not as good as on c64" behhh XD
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Joseman on 21:43, 27 October 16
Just played it on the real CPC

this is just a 16bit game inside a CPC, is just incredible.

I'll wait for the final version, with score and all the gameplay, but this will be fun... fuck the real live, i want to play this game several days in a row  ;D

And I just hope for a fisical release... oh my god  ???

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Neil79 on 21:49, 27 October 16
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 21:20, 27 October 16

Congratulations, you did again an awesome job. I have already people from C64 or even Amiga which want to buy a CPC just to play it :)


but..... i hear them say "the sound is not as good as on c64" behhh XD


That's nothing this has blown away the Commodore Amiga Facebook group :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 22:00, 27 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 20:37, 27 October 16
Physics is still one of the points to be adjusted for the final version. The goal is to be as close to the original as possible.
I appreciate the feedback from experts of the original version!


I guess the ball lose too much energy (friction too high?). It is particulary noticeable when the ball run the flipper lane.
I cannot make the ball go to the big ramp without using space to give extra energy, even when the ball was running the lane from the beginning (there must be conservation of momentum, added to the flipper move)
Hope this will help.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 22:51, 27 October 16

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: khisanth on 23:55, 27 October 16
Am stunned how good this is
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 00:02, 28 October 16
Apparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 00:07, 28 October 16
I have been playing for quite some time in my modded 464 Plus with the original monitor and I am utterly amazed. What a great job! the scroll is extremely smooth, the game could not be more responsive and there is some great music while you play that changes according to what the ball is doing. Really awesome.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 07:01, 28 October 16
Quote from: ukmarkh on 00:02, 28 October 16
Apparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.
It doesn't matter in my point of view. A Game fullfills more achievements than technical ones. Entertainement, fun, playability, good sound, AI, story and ... and.. .
Look what have been done the last month stunning games, applications, hardware for the CPC. Seems we are getting pampered. :). But, it's also understandable. Regarding the last achievements I'm also wondering what people from 1984/85 would have thought if they had seen such things. Do you think Alan Sugar woulde had been surprised, not by the hardware, but games?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: alex76gr on 09:15, 28 October 16
QuoteApparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.
:picard:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:26, 28 October 16
This... is.... wow. It just looks like it's running so effortlessly and smooth!!! Indeed I think friction may be on the high side but that's just parameters. What an awesome job!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 09:50, 28 October 16
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 00:07, 28 October 16
there is some great music while you play that changes according to what the ball is doing. Really awesome.


Yes, like the Amiga version.
Another thing that I saw is the "emulation" of the amiga's mod.
When you hit a bonus on the Amiga, the tracker restarts at the track number that it was left.
This is a very nice touch and sounds like the original.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: khisanth on 09:56, 28 October 16
Quote from: HAL 6128 on 07:01, 28 October 16
It doesn't matter in my point of view. A Game fullfills more achievements than technical ones. Entertainement, fun, playability, good sound, AI, story and ... and.. .
Look what have been done the last month stunning games, applications, hardware for the CPC. Seems we are getting pampered. :) . But, it's also understandable. Regarding the last achievements I'm also wondering what people from 1984/85 would have thought if they had seen such things. Do you think Alan Sugar woulde had been surprised, not by the hardware, but games?


Well this is a perfect example of what can be done if you don't have a strict time frame to complete it in and you don't have publishers or management pressuring you. Also when you have people who know the hardware and do it for the love of the machine, not some random person who claims they can do it and only does it for the cash.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 09:59, 28 October 16
And a video from a real CPC captured by Aris of retrounboxers:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tcsxUtMj5I&feature=em-uploademail
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: khisanth on 10:02, 28 October 16
Wow that looks so good on an actual machine.    ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Ast on 10:15, 28 October 16
Effectively, it's great on "real hadware"  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 10:16, 28 October 16
And it is very addictive... I found myself playing in the Amstrad this morning while I was waiting for my girlfriend. It is just like in the old times, when I used to do it before going to school and my grandma was literally dragging me out of the house :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: seanb on 10:27, 28 October 16
Quote from: VincentGR on 09:59, 28 October 16
And a video from a real CPC captured by Aris of retrounboxers:


&feature=em-uploademail


The amiga version looks great but can you show us the Amstrads?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 10:55, 28 October 16
Quote from: seanb on 10:27, 28 October 16

The amiga version looks great but can you show us the Amstrads?  :laugh:
HEY! That IS on an Ams... ... wait a minute! I see what you did there! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Overflow on 10:58, 28 October 16
Brillant conversion so far! Time & effort to be so close to the original, just wow.

Very smart choice: everyone knows Pinball Dreams. Thanks to bring CPC under the lights again.
Smart choice (bis) to achieve 50hz responsiveness and use our strengths: colorful gfx, splitscreen and HW-scroll.
Well, I'm not a player, but I can say: Batman Group did it again. Bravo.


Quote from: alex76gr on 09:15, 28 October 16
Quote from: ukmarkh on 00:02, 28 October 16
Apparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.
:picard:
Hum. Feel free to boo me (I mean: I can live with it) --> I agree with ukmarkh.
From what I see and my own technical experience: PB-preview doesn't use CPC's full potential.
From what I read? 40% on Rhino's scale, 50% of cpu-time available on a frame --> not full potential.

Come on! we've just had "Imperial Mahjong" which is (undoubtly) a double- technical achievement: just watch and hear.
Also just look back at past releases: Orion Prime (damm! Arkos again...), R-Type... Big games with much effort (time, love, dedication, etc...) and also technical achievements.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 12:06, 28 October 16

Care to explain?


Quote from: alex76gr on 09:15, 28 October 16
:picard:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arislab on 12:53, 28 October 16

Quote from: khisanth on 10:02, 28 October 16Wow that looks so good on an actual machine.    ;D ;D
Quote from: Ast on 10:15, 28 October 16
Effectively, it's great on "real hadware"  ;D



Believe me guys! it's more than words! ;D ;D

Thanks VincentGR!!! :D

...+ some pics on my actual machine

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:42, 28 October 16
Quote from: roudoudou on 22:00, 27 October 16

I guess the ball lose too much energy (friction too high?). It is particulary noticeable when the ball run the flipper lane.
I cannot make the ball go to the big ramp without using space to give extra energy, even when the ball was running the lane from the beginning (there must be conservation of momentum, added to the flipper move)
Hope this will help.

Thanks for the feedback!
Friction, flippers force, etc.. are adjustable parameters, also I have to play a little more to the original to compare.

Quote from: VincentGR on 09:50, 28 October 16

Yes, like the Amiga version.
Another thing that I saw is the "emulation" of the amiga's mod.
When you hit a bonus on the Amiga, the tracker restarts at the track number that it was left.
This is a very nice touch and sounds like the original.

Yes, It really is a very demanding game in sound, as it has many jingles and sfxs.

Quote from: Overflow on 10:58, 28 October 16
Brillant conversion so far! Time & effort to be so close to the original, just wow.

Very smart choice: everyone knows Pinball Dreams. Thanks to bring CPC under the lights again.
Smart choice (bis) to achieve 50hz responsiveness and use our strengths: colorful gfx, splitscreen and HW-scroll.
Well, I'm not a player, but I can say: Batman Group did it again. Bravo.

  :picard:

Hum. Feel free to boo me (I mean: I can live with it) --> I agree with ukmarkh.
From what I see and my own technical experience: PB-preview doesn't use CPC's full potential.
From what I read? 40% on Rhino's scale, 50% of cpu-time available on a frame --> not full potential.

Come on! we've just had "Imperial Mahjong" which is (undoubtly) a double- technical achievement: just watch and hear.
Also just look back at past releases: Orion Prime (damm! Arkos again...), R-Type... Big games with much effort (time, love, dedication, etc...) and also technical achievements.

I think a demo always can better exploit all the capabilities, because you can do many different effects each taking advantage of some hardware peculiarity. But I find it interesting take demoscene common tricks in games. For example, the splitscreen + hardware scroll uses something like your RVI. I do not know if this have been used in games before.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:46, 28 October 16
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 21:20, 27 October 16

Congratulations, you did again an awesome job. I have already people from C64 or even Amiga which want to buy a CPC just to play it :)


but..... i hear them say "the sound is not as good as on c64" behhh XD

hehe, well, they always can say something... the important thing now is to finish it, so we can say that CPC has Pinball Dreams and they not :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 15:17, 28 October 16
The video sounded just amazing.
The time I fire up the demo on my cpc with its 10" cones .... yeh it'll be something to shout about!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: alex76gr on 15:36, 28 October 16
QuoteCare to explain?
The facepalm refers to the style of your comment in relation to the effort that some people put to bring the community something like PD on CPC.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Targhan on 16:46, 28 October 16
QuoteThe facepalm refers to the style of your comment in relation to the effort that some people put to bring the community something like PD on CPC.

The way I understood it, the ukmarkh sentence was actually a joke reference to what Rhino said about Pinball Dreams "only" reaching 40% of the potential of the CPC. No one got it?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Overflow on 18:32, 28 October 16
Quote from: Rhino on 14:42, 28 October 16(...) I find it interesting take demoscene common tricks in games. For example, the splitscreen + hardware scroll uses something like your RVI. I do not know if this have been used in games before.
:D My RVI is Public Domain for years now!
Also remember: I have not been able to code a sample when you asked a few years ago.

For those who may not get it:
the 2nd splitscreen (the main one with pinball table) requires some uncommon hardware trick,
in order to allow 1-pixel precise vertical scrolling & start at required pixel-line within character-line.
To achieve this: likely a few tiny-splits on a single scanline in the left-border before displaying at monitor,
but also (Rhino can confirm?) likely some code adjustment depending on the CRTC type.

To put in a nutshell: some high-end hardware trick.
Many can understand the trick, very few could code it.



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Xifos on 20:14, 28 October 16
Is it different from the split (and r5 usage) used in mission genocide, warhawk, or axys ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Ast on 21:12, 28 October 16
Yes it is... this one is based on crtc reg0... all 7 lines are precalculed to give you the exact pixel Line to display... Rhino Would release soon an example  source for those who wanted to know the trick...
For the other one, just have a look at #e1e, if i remember...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 22:06, 28 October 16
Well can hardly say anything else , than it looks amazing. When I started watching the C64 version I was worried that the C64 version were going to top it , but it looks like the CPC has got another shining example of what sort of machine it can be . Really you guy's are producing stuff which makes a difference . Well in the weird and wonderful world of Retromania anyhow.
Cheers
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Higgy on 07:29, 29 October 16
Great work guys. I fired this up on my 6128 last night for a quick play.
Intro pics are very nice. [size=78%]Super smooth scrolling and very colourful.[/size]
Me and the wife were big Pinball Dreams/Fantasies fans back in the day, and her family had a 464 before an Amiga (sorry I had a Speccy!).


I did think it might be easier to recover the ball once it had passed the flippers compared to the Amiga version, but maybe that was more my wife's skill!


I will try and get a longer play over the weekend in between house jobs and looking after the baby! My Amiga is setup in the same room, so hopefully I can do a back to back test.


Thumbs up ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:08, 29 October 16
Quote from: Overflow on 18:32, 28 October 16
My RVI is Public Domain for years now!
Also remember: I have not been able to code a sample when you asked a few years ago.

For those who may not get it:
the 2nd splitscreen (the main one with pinball table) requires some uncommon hardware trick,
in order to allow 1-pixel precise vertical scrolling & start at required pixel-line within character-line.
To achieve this: likely a few tiny-splits on a single scanline in the left-border before displaying at monitor,
but also (Rhino can confirm?) likely some code adjustment depending on the CRTC type.

To put in a nutshell: some high-end hardware trick.
Many can understand the trick, very few could code it.

Quote from: Ast on 21:12, 28 October 16
Yes it is... this one is based on crtc reg0... all 7 lines are precalculed to give you the exact pixel Line to display... Rhino Would release soon an example  source for those who wanted to know the trick...
For the other one, just have a look at #e1e, if i remember...


Here's the source code of the trick for WinAPE Assembler!


Quote from: Higgy on 07:29, 29 October 16
Great work guys. I fired this up on my 6128 last night for a quick play.
Intro pics are very nice. [size=78%]Super smooth scrolling and very colourful.[/size]
Me and the wife were big Pinball Dreams/Fantasies fans back in the day, and her family had a 464 before an Amiga (sorry I had a Speccy!).


I did think it might be easier to recover the ball once it had passed the flippers compared to the Amiga version, but maybe that was more my wife's skill!


I will try and get a longer play over the weekend in between house jobs and looking after the baby! My Amiga is setup in the same room, so hopefully I can do a back to back test.


Thumbs up ;)

Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 13:42, 29 October 16
Quote from: Puresox on 22:06, 28 October 16
Well can hardly say anything else , than it looks amazing. When I started watching the C64 version I was worried that the C64 version were going to top it , but it looks like the CPC has got another shining example of what sort of machine it can be . Really you guy's are producing stuff which makes a difference . Well in the weird and wonderful world of Retromania anyhow.
Cheers

One can see so little of the flipper table on the C64 unfinished version. It must make it harder to play
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 14:22, 29 October 16
Quote from: ivarf on 13:42, 29 October 16
One can see so little of the flipper table on the C64 unfinished version. It must make it harder to play
Yes the screen allocation and size is really not set up for a decent version of the game ,really surprised at how they considered that as a good system.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 23:13, 30 October 16
After only an hour of "testing" I love it.
I was expecting some pong moments where the ball may get stuck in a repetitive pattern but that never happened.
Graphics etc all good with a converter and lcd panel.
Plenty of time to practice before the next version is released!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 10:53, 31 October 16

I played this last night, I'm not sure what to think or say at this point, but the graphics, music and smoothness of play appear to have been nailed.


I might have imagined it, but when the ball reached the end of my right flipper, it was almost as if it passed through the tip and into the void, but who knows.


This is a great project, even my wife found it entertaining and she hates anything retro.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 11:53, 31 October 16
Nothing to add really...
Makes me wonder what the actuall f*ck devs were doing all these years and they didn't even get close to the stuff we see the last few years...


The scrolling and the amount of stuff going on the screen are hardly believable.
I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.


I couldn't believe my ears that z80 could push sound with so much complexity, tightly tied to the gameplay.
Combine this with the graphics, gameplay and that the fact that the cpc is only about 50% busy... No words!


You guys are awesome, thank you  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 10:42, 01 November 16
I have expected more, but the preview version is nice done!  :)
Here a video from the RGC event... You can see Pinball Dreams at 6:40.




Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 10:58, 01 November 16
Looks better than the the poor SNES conversion.

And the Beatbox table was missing from both the Gameboy and Game Gear versions, so I suspect this is an 8-bit first!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: beb on 12:00, 01 November 16
Quote from: ASiC on 11:53, 31 October 16
I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.


HA HA ! Maybe you never heard about Orion Prime or Imperial MahJong.
And you probably don't know what is a C64 with a fabulous SID...  :)



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 13:11, 01 November 16
Quote from: beb on 12:00, 01 November 16

HA HA ! Maybe you never heard about Orion Prime or Imperial MahJong.
And you probably don't know what is a C64 with a fabulous SID...  :)


Last time I checked, this wasn't a thread about Orion Prime, Imperial Mahjong or C64 stuff  ;)


I'm reffering the accomplishment of the specific game to deliver dynamic audio content regarding of what's goining on the screen.


The (brilliant) games you are refering to, have amazing music, as all Targhan prods  :D


Could you tell me please where the c64 fits in here?


If that's the case, I can add the following:


HA HA HA, you have no idea what a an amiga with a Paula, a 486 with Gravis Ultrasound or an i7 with an SB X-Fi is  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 14:10, 01 November 16
Quote from: ASiC on 11:53, 31 October 16I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.
As said, the sound will be updated on the final version to be better...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: beb on 14:54, 01 November 16
Quote from: ASiC on 11:53, 31 October 16
I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.

You talk about "entire 8bit platform" so...
That's why I laugh and talk about Targhan games. (what is the problem if these games are Arkos ones ??? Have you a problem with that ?)
Because they sound a way better...


Music adaptation from Blaizer are great. You can stay on your chair. :)
I think your comment lacking in objectivity.


If you want to see hi end C64  game with music you can watch "Mayhem in monsterland." another 8bit computer.
Talking about I7 / Soundblaster XFi and Amiga is nonsens... they are not 8bits at all.


cheers.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:15, 01 November 16
@Lazy dude, ukmarkh

Thanks for the feedback!
Of course, the preview may have bugs and I appreciate reports to fix them for the final version.

@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290)
Thanks for the video.
It is also possible to learn from this preview to improve the final version (or Pinball Fantasies), so any ideas about improvements is welcome.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 15:48, 01 November 16
Quote from: beb on 14:54, 01 November 16
You talk about "entire 8bit platform" so...
That's why I laugh and talk about Targhan games. (what is the problem if these games are Arkos ones ??? Have you a problem with that ?)
Because they sound a way better...


Music adaptation from Blaizer are great. You can stay on your chair. :)
I think your comment lacking in objectivity.


If you want to see hi end C64  game with music you can watch "Mayhem in monsterland." another 8bit computer.
Talking about I7 / Soundblaster XFi and Amiga is nonsens... they are not 8bits at all.


cheers.

I already seen mayhem in monsterland. So? Why should I like things you do?
When I said the entire 8bit platform, I was expressing my opinion.

You started talking shit like "HA HA ! Maybe you never heard about Orion Prime or Imperial MahJong.And you probably don't know what is a C64 with a fabulous SID...  "

Yes, I was waiting for you to teach me about Arkos prods and the SID. Thank you sir, you have opened my eyes  :picard2:



Your reply is lacking objectivity, is kinda trollish and rather insulting.


I have nothing at all with Arkos prods, the exact opposite.
In this case, the dynamic sound content is missing from Arkos. But that's absolutely fine, I don't have any issues with that.
You on the other hand, as a good ol' troll, started taking the piss and also threw the c64 in!
Genuine reaction of the c64 fanboy: Oh the sid, oh the sprites, oh the vic2 (in "which way did he go George" voice!)
So, yeah, feel free and go pay your respects to the sid gods.

BTW paula IS 8bit...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 16:16, 01 November 16
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174)

It plays very well indeed, and I've put in a lot of hours (and pounds) into pinball tables (both digital and physical) over the years.

It's been a while since I've played Pinball Dreams on the Amiga but from memory this feels very close. Are the ball physics modelled on those of Pinball Dreams or are they trying to be more accurate? From memory they improved the physics slightly in Fantasies.

Regarding Fantasies, I believe the tables are a screen taller and with a little more going on. Perhaps you'll need to dig in to some of the remaining 60% of the CPC's capabilities for that one  :P

Anyway, well done! It's a fantastic accomplishment so far!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 11:28, 02 November 16
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 11:37, 02 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 15:15, 01 November 16Thanks for the video.
It is also possible to learn from this preview to improve the final version (or Pinball Fantasies), so any ideas about improvements is welcome.
I can understand that should be into the pipe, but here what I have seen:
- The ball can be launched only at the maximum speed. (so, you can't target an area when you start)
- In the same way, the ball physic look to lost too much speed on ramps.
- It is hard to play without problem related to the table collisions. May be not enough permissive?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 11:40, 02 November 16
Quote from: kawickboy on 11:28, 02 November 16
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.

One shouldn't use a CTM to play Pinball Dreams? Is it save to use other recently released productions like Imperial Mahjong? Do I have to connect my GT65 for this games? ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 11:49, 02 November 16
While you can use a full CPC (keyboard unit + monitor), better to do it!  8) 
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 13:13, 02 November 16
I can't test it on a real machine cause I work far away from home. I will be here for a couple of months. I wish I could contribute too but emulators are more like tools to me than for gaming.


After this release I will not be surprised if one day I'll see slam tilt, another world or something else on my CPC  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:44, 02 November 16
Quote from: Skunkfish on 16:16, 01 November 16
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174)

It plays very well indeed, and I've put in a lot of hours (and pounds) into pinball tables (both digital and physical) over the years.

It's been a while since I've played Pinball Dreams on the Amiga but from memory this feels very close. Are the ball physics modelled on those of Pinball Dreams or are they trying to be more accurate? From memory they improved the physics slightly in Fantasies.

Regarding Fantasies, I believe the tables are a screen taller and with a little more going on. Perhaps you'll need to dig in to some of the remaining 60% of the CPC's capabilities for that one  :P

Anyway, well done! It's a fantastic accomplishment so far!

The idea is that the gameplay will be similar to the original, there is a dependence on the shapes of the boards and physics to achieve it. But there are still many things to adjust, for example, the ball in CPC is proportionally bigger than in Amiga, which makes it more difficult to bring it through the ramps, tunnels, etc... This must be compensated in other ways, since the ratio between the ball and the rest of the board is more real in CPC than Amiga and I would not like to change it.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:48, 02 November 16
Quote from: kawickboy on 11:28, 02 November 16
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.

Thanks !, I hope the monitor damage was not caused by the game!
The game keeps a 50hz screen at all time, btw.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:50, 02 November 16
Quote from: TotO on 11:37, 02 November 16
I can understand that should be into the pipe, but here what I have seen:
- The ball can be launched only at the maximum speed. (so, you can't target an area when you start)
- In the same way, the ball physic look to lost too much speed on ramps.
- It is hard to play without problem related to the table collisions. May be not enough permissive?

Thanks for the feedback!
I think the last point is caused by what I mentioned in a message above.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 15:16, 02 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 14:50, 02 November 16This must be compensated in other ways, since the ratio between the ball and the rest of the board is more real in CPC than Amiga and I would not like to change it.
May be the ball collision mask should be a bit smaller than its visual.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Kerrick Sword on 16:31, 02 November 16
Great game, congratulations!!
The scroll is gorgeous

Go for it and finish it, but take the time you need


My only complain is with the score board , that is not very readable, the foreground and background colors are very similar, im using the winape emulator for reference.
And it would be cool if you could put the game link in the first post
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Joseman on 21:55, 02 November 16
Pinball Dreams on a real GT65 monitor:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/14ac02t.jpg)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/294i4xk.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/rr00ih.jpg)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 23:08, 02 November 16
 :'( :-\ :'( :-[ ???  The pain... The pain...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 19:06, 03 November 16
is it just me or are there that many Videos concerning this "preview demo version" ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IGYejTZyNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtgnPRGAPIM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAIPoPGfZ_4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVv-oBN6AWA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3eoGVLS5mA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnwb-Ujzh8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFEi0V4j7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tcsxUtMj5I


Warning : "oh 240p I meet you again... my eyes are now bleeding"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQHKDeUBRqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-4UZOZEUao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSdhgsTm4CU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hn_8_Vjz80


I don't think i have seen that many videos for an Amstrad Preview/demo game ever...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 20:08, 03 November 16
Good news as far as CPC can be concerned
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 20:46, 03 November 16
Quote from: TotO on 15:16, 02 November 16
May be the ball collision mask should be a bit smaller than its visual.

Yes, I think it's can be fixed by adjusting the board collision mask.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 20:48, 03 November 16
Quote from: Kerrick Sword on 16:31, 02 November 16
Great game, congratulations!!
The scroll is gorgeous

Go for it and finish it, but take the time you need


My only complain is with the score board , that is not very readable, the foreground and background colors are very similar, im using the winape emulator for reference.
And it would be cool if you could put the game link in the first post

Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TomEtJerry on 21:59, 03 November 16
Quote from: kawickboy on 11:28, 02 November 16
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.

Before the monitor died, some guys have made remarks playing the game :

me :-). Il have never been fan of flickering screens (even if it allows to see more colours), I think the intro screens would be better with standard display (maybe with rasters for mode 1 screens). Fortunatly, the main game doesn't use this technic and is just amazing !

Atlantis was uneasy with flashing colours in the lower part of the flipper board (some other guys were not). Looking at the Amiga version of the game, it seems there are less things that change colours periodically (B letter of the logo, bonuses).

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: beb on 23:19, 03 November 16
Quote from: TomEtJerry on 21:59, 03 November 16
I have never been fan of flickering screens (even if it allows to see more colours), I think the intro screens would be better with standard display (maybe with rasters for mode 1 screens). Fortunatly, the main game doesn't use this technic and is just amazing !


Hooo !!! I'm shocked !! I felt from my chair :)
I'm a bit agree with you Hervé for the flickering stuff. But the game is really great.


@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174): Have you worked on the subpixel ball since last time ? ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 01:27, 04 November 16
One of the thing I think may be the most triky : all the colour cyclings everywhere...
(it's a freaking flipper/pinball)

actually few real "masked sprites" (balls) but really too many tiles with cycling colours per lines to be done simply via ink cycling of a sacrified ink... (CPC doesn't have 32 inks per line)

this means quite more background tiles have to be "refreshed" than expected.
I guess some level design may get more CPU/process/RAM intense than others if really many things have to have cycling colours/lighting/lite effects.

Does it handles well the multiball ?


flickering/Flashouille screen :
thats a thing from amiga, I do remember shadow of the beast's intro page with epyleptic trauma induced flickers...

Well why not, it's just a gimmick for the intro pages that somewhat make believe CPC is almost a ST.
;)
should try 60hz flickers instead... some says it is do-able on CPC.

This gme is what magic pinball on GX4000 should have been.
CPC has a huge potential for great pinball games.

Devil's Crush anyone ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 02:37, 04 November 16
Regarding the flickering in the intro screens, I must say that with a real CRT it is almost not noticeable, at least to my eyes. As you know, the images in the phosphorescent screen do not disappear very fast and this compensates for the flickering a lot  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 18:02, 04 November 16
This can be a subjective matter, but there are several reasons to use these screens modes for me. The first is that I was not happy with the result of the first attempts we made to convert them to standard modes. Also, I think there are enough games with splash screens in standard modes. Moreover, the first thing you see is always important, if you start seeing something unusual, the rest of the game will be watched with more attention and wonder. By last, I believe that many had noticed my influence from Amiga and many Amiga games uses splash screens or logos in interlace with flickering, for example, Pinball Fantasies :)

Anyway, I do not rule out improving existing screens for the final version since it is possible to reduce the flickering by retouching manually.

I also noticed that different types of screens give different results and generally the flickering is more noticeable when you have the monitor brightness to the maximum, and is greatly reduced with moderate brightness.

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 18:12, 04 November 16
By the way, It seens that the creators of the c64 version have announced the project resumes after so many years ...  :)

http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=12&topicid=49146&showallposts=1
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 18:41, 04 November 16
That C64 Forum seems pretty cool tbh , and not your usual approach . I was amused by the CPC inferior complex  being noted and how it is irrelevent 30 years on. Which is fair point , but as I always say , we(or at least I am a Retro fan) So whenever you see unfair comments about the system , and generally people seem to go out of there way to be arsy about the machine , when it is unwarranted. Anyway ,I won't take things of subject.
The game is a great piece of work and I am glad it is being discussed with high regard . I hope the  developers can make use of the positive critisism.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 18:44, 04 November 16
They say we are always bashing C64? Because of our Inferiority Complex? Really don't see that.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 18:49, 04 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 18:12, 04 November 16
By the way, It seens that the creators of the c64 version have announced the project resumes after so many years ...  :)

http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=12&topicid=49146&showallposts=1 (http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=12&topicid=49146&showallposts=1)


Some people will lose their sleep there  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 21:12, 04 November 16
Quote from: Puresox on 18:44, 04 November 16
They say we are always bashing C64? Because of our Inferiority Complex? Really don't see that.


ONE people says that ONE demo says, there is a little difference :)



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 02:20, 05 November 16
Lol oxymoron One People ,
There is more than one person on that point anyhow? What's your point?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 02:53, 05 November 16
QuoteBy the way, It seens that the creators of the c64 version have announced the project resumes after so many years ...
Another great victory for you and an humiliating debacle for the overtly overstated and despicable talentless C64 scene*.
:laugh:


well, actually would have been great to have it on c64 too.
:(




*don't worry, was kidding... a bit.  ;)

QuoteVery interesting reading, that CPC forum thread. Everyone there seems to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex regarding the C64, feeling the need to constantly bash it and its users as they do. I mean, what does it fucking matter which 30+ year old platform you prefer to use? Just use the one you like best and be happy about it.
Quoteits like speccy ppl. inferior - without the complex.
a few banters are always fun and relevant, lol.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 07:23, 05 November 16
Never been a fan of the flicker screens either - but I hope people aren't judging based on the video they watch on their PC - or from the picture they're getting when using an LCD TV as a monitor with a plain SCART cable.

I know most readers already know this, but I feel it should be mentioned in this thread anyway:

Only judge the flicker on either a real Amstrad monitor, or a European CRT TV that runs 50 hz. That's the only place it'll be displayed correctly without any further fiddling.

If you want a correct result on a LCD monitor or TV, you need to make sure it displays 50 hz rather than the typical 60 hz. In my experience most can't be changed manually.

If you insist on using LCD for your Amstrad CPC, I highly recommend the X-RGB Mini Framemeister, as it converts the 50,08 hz RGB signal into a 50 fps HDMI stream which will result in actual 50 fps being shown. This isn't happening when using plain SCART with an LCD.

You can't trust 50 fps videos on YouTube either, when the refresh-rate of your monitor is 60 hz (and most are).

In short: Always download and watch on your real CPC with a CRT monitor for best result.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 13:11, 05 November 16
another video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6CVDfFqsCk
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 14:27, 05 November 16
Quote from: MacDeath on 13:11, 05 November 16
another video :


That LCD has some serious problem keeping up with the scrolling, at least it seems so watching the captured video converted throygh YouTube showing on my LCD pad
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 14:46, 05 November 16
QuoteThat LCD has some serious problem keeping up with the scrolling, at least it seems so watching the captured video converted throygh YouTube showing on my LCD pad
Well, would be interesting to know what he uses to plug the CPC on this monitor ?

At least he uses a 5/4 sized monitor, I think. or not ?

Still same issue as usual : is the camera well synched with the monitor ? is the camera into a huge frequency ?
Seems you would use 100hz or 200hz caemeras at least... lol.

Still I never saw a preview game spawning that many videos from previously not CPC-friendly/regulars sources...
And I guess more videos are to come as well.

Here we have 8bitscene and Demoscene and Amigascene putting the projector on this.
CPC was unknown to Poland few years ago, until some Joker-themed-award-raping Demo showed those speccy-C64-Amigaists that CPC is more than just a bad Speccyclone but more like an upgraded AtariST clone with only 8bit CPU.
:laugh:


Anyway this Turek retromaniak seems to have a nice collection and actually posts quite a few videos for CPC.

turek = turkey?
But I guess he is Polish according to the writtings ?

The Polish retroscene and computer scene is supposedly very dinamic so that's a good thing they get interested in a "new" format that may have some interesting features compaired to the usual Sovietic Speccy clones.
After all they already know Z80 and AY soundchip anyway.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 05:49, 06 November 16
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologise if this has already been asked.

Isn't it supposed to run on a CPC plus?

I tried yesterday (at the annual local retro-gaming meeting), and all I got was a black screen.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 08:52, 06 November 16
Quote from: mr_lou on 05:49, 06 November 16
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologise if this has already been asked.

Isn't it supposed to run on a CPC plus?

I tried yesterday (at the annual local retro-gaming meeting), and all I got was a black screen.

Looking at the quality of the game I am not surprised it is to much for a late 8-bit..
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 11:14, 06 November 16
Quote from: mr_lou on 05:49, 06 November 16
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologise if this has already been asked.

Isn't it supposed to run on a CPC plus?

I tried yesterday (at the annual local retro-gaming meeting), and all I got was a black screen.

It works on the plus. The only requirements are 128 kb and floppy drive.
Maybe it was a disk or drive issue? A 10 sectors per track special format designed by Arnoldemu is used, and maybe it is more sensitive to minor damages in disc that are not noticeable in standard format.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arnoldemu on 12:07, 06 November 16
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) : Please describe to me your plus configuration.

Are you running it from hxc or gotek or real drive?
3.5" or 3"?

I will try and discover why it's not working for you.

Thank you.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 12:20, 06 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 11:14, 06 November 16
It works on the plus. The only requirements are 128 kb and floppy drive.
Maybe it was a disk or drive issue? A 10 sectors per track special format designed by Arnoldemu is used, and maybe it is more sensitive to minor damages in disc that are not noticeable in standard format.

I am writing just to confirm that it certainly works fine on the Plus :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 13:26, 06 November 16
XeNoMoRPH in amstrad.es forum had the same issue and he solved it by simply saving the disk again:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amstrad.es%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D19%26t%3D4525&edit-text=

Btw, the Oliver Twins verifying that it works on plus  :)

(http://www.joycogames.com/download/pinball/otpd.jpg)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MaV on 13:48, 06 November 16
Quote from: MacDeath on 14:46, 05 November 16
turek = turkey?
But I guess he is Polish according to the writtings ?
http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=turek

A polish guy with croatian or serbian ancestry, most probably.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 14:12, 06 November 16
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:27, 04 November 16
One of the thing I think may be the most triky : all the colour cyclings everywhere...
(it's a freaking flipper/pinball)
Indeed, but luckily the lights on the board (which seem to be set for the worst case scenario in the preview, they don't seem to be linked to the things that perma-light them up) flicker at around 0.5Hz, so that's 25 frames to update them (a few per frame).


It looks great though!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 17:25, 06 November 16
Quote from: arnoldemu on 12:07, 06 November 16
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) : Please describe to me your plus configuration.

Are you running it from hxc or gotek or real drive?
3.5" or 3"?

464 plus with 128k ram, HxC, Megaflash...
I suspect it's the Megaflash causing trouble, because of memory issues. I think I've experienced this before. My best guess is that the Megaflash uses up too much memory preventing certain games to run.

It'll be a while before I get a chance to check. I'm thinking about completely removing the Megaflash.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 17:45, 06 November 16
QuoteBtw, the Oliver Twins verifying that it works on plus
Always nice to see them around. They really are legends for us.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 19:09, 06 November 16
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:45, 06 November 16
Always nice to see them around. They really are legends for us.
Did they release anything on the CPC to deserve that status? In my opinion their best games were early games like Killipede which was Amstrad only. Dizzy? No..
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 19:18, 06 November 16
GhostBuster 2 ?
Basically they released a lot of games and were the typical exemple of "from Bedroom to job in video games".
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Docent on 20:43, 06 November 16
Quote from: MacDeath on 14:46, 05 November 16

Here we have 8bitscene and Demoscene and Amigascene putting the projector on this.
CPC was unknown to Poland few years ago, until some Joker-themed-award-raping Demo showed those speccy-C64-Amigaists that CPC is more than just a bad Speccyclone but more like an upgraded AtariST clone with only 8bit CPU.


I can assure you that Batman demo did not enlighten us in Poland :).  Cpc was known in Poland for ages - I got mine (464) in 1985 and I knew many people who owned them at that time. Cpcs were highly appraised by computer magazines in Poland for its bundled monitor, its high resolution and high quality basic. 6128 was also very popular as cheap cp/m machine - many companies used it before switching to pcs.  Of course, zx spectrum and Atari xl ruled in 8bits, followed by commodore (c64 and later  amigas). Cpc was a minority platform, so it did not have a chance to get locally developed games, but the cracking scene in Poland was pretty strong - most titles were cracked locally from tape or disk copies of originals. There were also some small tools or games developed,  I personally even did a small music disk for cpc with music ripped from various games :)

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 21:14, 06 November 16
Ok so I was wrong... thx to rectify this then and teach us a piece of history.
;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Singaja on 21:17, 06 November 16
Quote from: Docent on 20:43, 06 November 16
I can assure you that Batman demo did not enlighten us in Poland :) .  Cpc was known in Poland for ages - I got mine (464) in 1985 and I knew many people who owned them at that time. Cpcs were highly appraised by computer magazines in Poland for its bundled monitor, its high resolution and high quality basic. 6128 was also very popular as cheap cp/m machine - many companies used it before switching to pcs.  Of course, zx spectrum and Atari xl ruled in 8bits, followed by commodore (c64 and later  amigas). Cpc was a minority platform, so it did not have a chance to get locally developed games, but the cracking scene in Poland was pretty strong - most titles were cracked locally from tape or disk copies of originals. There were also some small tools or games developed,  I personally even did a small music disk for cpc with music ripped from various games :)
To backen this up I can also add that CPCs were provided to Polish political opposition "Solidarność" for editing texts in the 80s. Some people also grey imported them, but there was no official distribution due to COCOM cold war embargo. The Polish well known computer magazine of it's time called Bajtek (literally meaning tiny byte) did cover Games and program listing to be typed in for CPCs.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 19:36, 07 November 16
Quote from: mr_lou on 17:25, 06 November 16
464 plus with 128k ram, HxC, Megaflash...
I suspect it's the Megaflash causing trouble, because of memory issues. I think I've experienced this before. My best guess is that the Megaflash uses up too much memory preventing certain games to run.

It'll be a while before I get a chance to check. I'm thinking about completely removing the Megaflash.

The preview uses the page 0 of extra mem (#c1-#c7 values). Maybe some memory extension does not map the extra mem in that page?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 19:46, 07 November 16
Just in case it helps, I am running the game using an upgraded 464 Plus (basically now is a 6128 Plus with a few more things). The computer has a C4CPC and I also have connected a MX4 with a X-MEM, X-MASS, Albireo... everything works fine loading it from my HxC :).
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arnoldemu on 21:11, 07 November 16
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) :
Is it a ram expansion or is it modified by Bryce to 128KB?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 23:39, 07 November 16
The good recognition this is bringing to the CPC is unbelievable . Seriously you guys have big respect for this work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIdAJuLidsc

You Tube link didn't work Mod so just put a link
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 00:06, 08 November 16
seriously, how many videos are tehre now ? not that they do millions of views but still the number of youtube channels covering this preview is quite a first for our community.

Now you really have to finish this game and deliver what we all expect !!!
:laugh:



also is it me or is 2016 some sort of record breaking year concerning number of releases (whatever sort) ?


CPCpowers :
(may not be complete actually)

ten years ago, the number of "releases" averaged around 40 per years, be it full games, Demos or just a screen or sound-disks or applications....

2008 : 41 refs.
2009 : 41 refs
2010 : 50 refs
2011 : 52 refs
2012 : 65 refs
2013 : 72 refs
2014 : 78 refs
2015 : 103 refs

2016 : 91 refs
and still counting, I guess they still haven't entered the many games from this years Retrodev contest, and the many games that seem to be released right now is outstanding.

Post Edit :
now there are 131 entrie for 2016 at CPCpower, and still counting.
(Kukulcan implemented results from CPCretrodevs and all the recent releases/previews)
This marks a record as we are back to even more than the number of references from between 1995 and 1996, still less than 1995.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 17:05, 08 November 16
Quote from: arnoldemu on 21:11, 07 November 16
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) :
Is it a ram expansion or is it modified by Bryce to 128KB?

Internally mounted, all done by Bryce yes.
But I've had issues with certain games before, that worked after freeing some slots in the Megaflash.
So I'm gonna try that when I have some time again. As usual I'm way booked with too many projects right now.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 17:06, 08 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 19:36, 07 November 16
The preview uses the page 0 of extra mem (#c1-#c7 values). Maybe some memory extension does not map the extra mem in that page?

Too technical for me. I have no clue.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 11:17, 09 November 16
Quote from: ivarf on 19:09, 06 November 16
Did they release anything on the CPC to deserve that status? In my opinion their best games were early games like Killipede which was Amstrad only. Dizzy? No..

Sacrilege! I love Dizzy :)

I mean sure, not all of the Twins games are 10/10 material but they've probably sold more games on the CPC than any other programmers and they were just teenagers at the time! Their throughput used to be incredible, wasn't it them who shared a CPC and took it in turns to code whilst the other one slept?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Dubliner on 12:36, 09 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 13:26, 06 November 16
Btw, the Oliver Twins verifying that it works on plus  :)

The Oliver Twins' faces when they were watching Batman Forever

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1085238/IMG_6869.JPG)
They could not believe what they were seing  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 13:04, 09 November 16
Quote from: Dubliner on 12:36, 09 November 16
The Oliver Twins' faces when they were watching Batman Forever

They could not believe what they were seing  ;)


I'd love an (mini) interview of the Twins commenting of the stuff the CPC is capable of and why we didn't see even a fraction of it during its lifecycle.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Dubliner on 13:11, 09 November 16
Quote from: ASiC on 13:04, 09 November 16
I'd love an (mini) interview of the Twins commenting of the stuff the CPC is capable of and why we didn't see even a fraction of it during its lifecycle.

We had an informal chat with them about this kind of topics. They told us that they were more focussed on actually doing games that they were fun of playing and that it didn´t take too long to develop.

But they had in mind the demoescene when hiring workers for their studio after the Codemasters years.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 16:03, 09 November 16
The tools were not so good back in those days and many people was coding and compiling in the Amstrad itself; the knowledge of the machine was not perfect either, there were tight deadlines, the games had to be released for many systems at the same time... I reckon that all this made a huge difference.

For example, in the particular case of our little adventure it would have been impossible to produce the game if I was not compiling it in Winape and writing the source code in the PC. The source is more than 350KB... imagine to write that in the Amstrad using a CP/M Plus text editor and without the mouse, it would not even fit in the RAM before compression :) . Then, compilation itself would take ages and this would make testing a bloody nightmare. Creating the graphics would have been crazy too. There were geniuses, of course, La Abadia del Crimen was entirely developed using a couple of 6128, but Paco Menéndez was a truly awesome programmer.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 16:46, 09 November 16
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 16:03, 09 November 16
The tools were not so good back in those days and many people was coding and compiling in the Amstrad itself; the knowledge of the machine was not perfect either, there were tight deadlines, the games had to be released for many systems at the same time... I reckon that all this made a huge difference.

For example, in the particular case of our little adventure it would have been impossible to produce the game if I was not compiling it in Winape and writing the source code in the PC. The source is more than 350KB... imagine to write it with in the Amstrad using a CP/M Plus text editor and without the mouse, it would not even fit in the RAM before compression :) . Then, compilation itself would take ages and this would make testing a bloody nightmare. Creating the graphics would have been crazy too. There were geniuses, of course, La Abadia del Crimen was entirely developed using a couple of 6128, but Paco Menéndez was a truly awesome programmer.


You are right of course about knowledge and advanced tools.


But dev kits existed back in the day. I remember reading a long time ago about two kits, one based on the Atari St and the other on x86 PC.


My best guess will be that the main culprits were all these different platforms (zx, c64 etc) and the presure from the deadlines.


Although I'd love to hear the opinion from an insider  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 18:06, 09 November 16
Yes, I know that some of the Spanish companies (like Opera) where using a PC (I think it was a PC) to cross-compile for many 8 bit systems. However, this was in the final years of 8 bit development and the problem was that the kit, as far as I know, did not take advantage of the particular characteristics each the machine. I remember reading that the deadlines, and therefore the recycling of the code, were one of the main issues back in the day. The companies used to give programmers very little time to develop the games and they reached the market even with bugs in some cases. You can read more from a real insider here:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/rastan-coder/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/rastan-coder/)

In that regard, La Abadia del Crimen was an exception. Paco developed the game he wanted to create and only when it was finished it was offered to Opera for the distribution (I hope my memory is not failing me). This made a huge difference.

:)

P.D: I also forgot to mention that only a few games of the old times take advantage of the extra RAM in the 6128. This did not help either, but from a commercial point of view the games had to be as compatible as possible. I remember to hear that in some cases it was necessary to employ compression techniques that were killing a full 1 Mhz, or more, in the Z80.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 16:34, 10 November 16
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 18:06, 09 November 16
Yes, I know that some of the Spanish companies (like Opera) where using a PC (I think it was a PC) to cross-compile for many 8 bit systems. However, this was in the final years of 8 bit development and the problem was that the kit, as far as I know, did not take advantage of the particular characteristics each the machine. I remember reading that the deadlines, and therefore the recycling of the code, were one of the main issues back in the day. The companies used to give programmers very little time to develop the games and they reached the market even with bugs in some cases. You can read more from a real insider here:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/rastan-coder/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/rastan-coder/)

In that regard, La Abadia del Crimen was an exception. Paco developed the game he wanted to create and only when it was finished it was offered to Opera for the distribution (I hope my memory is not failing me). This made a huge difference.

:)

P.D: I also forgot to mention that only a few games of the old times take advantage of the extra RAM in the 6128. This did not help either, but from a commercial point of view the games had to be as compatible as possible. I remember to hear that in some cases it was necessary to employ compression techniques that were killing a full 1 Mhz, or more, in the Z80.


Operasoft was using hardware emulators able to churn out a game on many plateform at the same time.


You should ask Syx about this matter, you'd be mad at the technics used.


However, we've seen too often that the C64 and ZX versions were done by the teams 3/4 of the deadline time, and the 2 last weeks were used to make the CPC version.


This because the CPC was seen as a crap and souless machine in UK. A fact that of course as a french guy i just can't agree with.


The CPC was better than those 2 since it was the last 8 bits coming on the market.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: bjt on 13:24, 11 November 16
Can't wait to try this. About this time last year I upgraded my 464 with an X-MEM and DDI-1 clone and saw Batman Forever for this first time. I expect this will be a similar experience  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 21:58, 17 November 16
Is there a tiny bit of Irony ,in the fact that Pinball Dreams was originally published by 21st Century Entertainment , which company was made up of Ex Hewson(I have just learned). And wasn't it Mr Hewson who recently made the comments about the CPC being Soul-less.
Batman Group have shown what Soul the CPC has. And the serendipity of it being with the Production of Pinball Dreams is awesome. ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 22:02, 17 November 16
Quote from: Puresox on 21:58, 17 November 16
Is there a tiny bit of Irony ,in the fact that Pinball Dreams was originally published by 21st Century Entertainment , which company was made up of Ex Hewson(I have just learned). And wasn't it Mr Hewson who recently made the comments about the CPC being Soul-less.
Batman Group have shown what Soul the CPC has. And the serendipity of it being with the Production of Pinball Dreams is awesome. ;D

Mr Hewson was a Spectrum man by heart
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 22:40, 17 November 16
He produced some great titles for the CPC . Definitely one of my fav Companies . Top titles that most were converted well for our machine , and occasionally surpassed .
I did find it odd that he said it tbh. Because he was very professional in converting his titles . I  struggle to think of a truly bad title?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 23:56, 17 November 16
I don't think that Raphaelle Cecco do have the same opinion. And Hewson without Cecco's games had basically a poor catalog.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 01:18, 18 November 16
Opinions are like arseholes...and all that.
The games were decently ported. Whether you like the games or not is up to you
Compare System 3, or US Gold  Ports .
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 13:55, 19 November 16
Quote from: Puresox on 21:58, 17 November 16
Is there a tiny bit of Irony ,in the fact that Pinball Dreams was originally published by 21st Century Entertainment , which company was made up of Ex Hewson(I have just learned). And wasn't it Mr Hewson who recently made the comments about the CPC being Soul-less.
Batman Group have shown what Soul the CPC has. And the serendipity of it being with the Production of Pinball Dreams is awesome. ;D

Maybe Hewson did not see the true CPC soul :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 16:14, 19 November 16
Quote from: Rhino on 13:55, 19 November 16
Maybe Hewson did not see the true CPC soul :)


Well, Hewson were responsible for a lot of good games on the CPC, so for that I'm thankful.


One person's opinion however, counts for nothing, three million and more CPC users disagree! 
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 18:32, 19 November 16
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:14, 19 November 16

Well, Hewson were responsible for a lot of good games on the CPC, so for that I'm thankful.


One person's opinion however, counts for nothing, three million and more CPC users disagree!

Do we disagree with this? "Excluding the games made by Raphaele Cecco, the majority of Hewsons full price games for the Amstrad was quick Spectrum ports where little effort were made to use the machines potential."
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 22:40, 29 November 16
Is it me or are the fade-outs remarkably close to the mega drive ones?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 15:52, 13 December 16
Quote from: Puresox on 23:39, 07 November 16
You Tube link didn't work Mod so just put a link


Always work - either remove https (only works with http automatically) or use the YT button :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 16:02, 13 December 16
That was Hewson's personal opinion, but had no bearing in how he ran the company. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and, certainly, after struggling with the poor ZX for years on end I can understand why he would feel like that about a more complete machine. So what, give him a break :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Puresox on 00:00, 14 December 16
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:02, 13 December 16
That was Hewson's personal opinion, but had no bearing in how he ran the company. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and, certainly, after struggling with the poor ZX for years on end I can understand why he would feel like that about a more complete machine. So what, give him a break :)
Give me  break ,
It was just an interesting, serendipitous ironic link so I'm going to say something about it . Nothing more  It wasn't just a random attack on the guy . And my comments further on in the thread , were praising the company . Why you feel the need to make a point of this about a month after this comment was made who knows. ???
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 08:21, 14 December 16
Quote from: Puresox on 00:00, 14 December 16
Give me  break ,
It was just an interesting, serendipitous ironic link so I'm going to say something about it . Nothing more  It wasn't just a random attack on the guy . And my comments further on in the thread , were praising the company . Why you feel the need to make a point of this about a month after this comment was made who knows. ???


Dude, chill, as our over-the-pond cousins would say. Are you serious? I wasn't even replying to you, it was a whole side-discussion, and if you think you can dictate me or anyone else the time frame within which they may express their opinion, then you got it all wrong.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: bjt on 01:18, 28 December 16
Finally got a chance to try this on my expanded 464, it rocks! Well done


(http://i.imgur.com/Pn8CE4Yl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Pn8CE4Y)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Ast on 14:26, 28 December 16
Waooo! 22 posts for a preview !  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 15:49, 28 December 16
Well, probably well worth it :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 16:05, 28 December 16
Quote from: Ast on 14:26, 28 December 16
Waooo! 23 pages for a preview !  :laugh:
Fixed. May be because, to much other games give less in their final versions?  :-\
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Neil79 on 12:00, 09 March 17
HOT NEWS
http://www.indieretronews.com/2017/03/pinball-dreams-preview-2-fantastic.html
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 13:07, 09 March 17
Woot woot!!!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 13:28, 09 March 17
Great!!!  :D  I see myself playing a lot when it is released!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 13:46, 09 March 17
Where can I buy the machine? :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 13:51, 09 March 17
Looks great.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 21:38, 09 March 17
Yeah, definitly. Great grafix! Looks promising.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:38, 10 March 17
Thanks!

The current two tables gfxs:

(http://www.joycogames.com/download/pinball/two_tables.jpg)


Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 12:41, 10 March 17
Yum yum.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 13:23, 10 March 17
Superb!  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 15:26, 11 March 17
The first demo was already a bit addictive, oh man this is one decent looking game.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: menegator on 17:53, 11 March 17
Decent???? Pardon my french but this is not merely a decent game, it's f****** amazing game.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: beb on 18:51, 11 March 17
It's a bit more than a "decent game".


I'm just wondering , and maybe Rhino can answer me...
If  this game use only 50% of cpc capacities (as he said) I really want to know how much of percent it use on the original amiga500.
Because as far as I know it was coded by demomaker from Silents...


... Maybe demomakers on amiga are a bit overrated ? :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dlfrsilver on 01:21, 12 March 17
Once again, that's such an awesome job done by the batman group, take this c64 !! loool
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 18:53, 12 March 17
I was hoping we hadn't seen the last of this, the preview left me wanting much more!

Has work continued on the previous table as well? From memory the table scoring mechanics weren't yet complete....
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:29, 12 March 17
@beb (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1105)

I have not looked in, but Amiga have enough power for Pinball Dreams and much more: hardware scroll + hard sprites + blitter for lights + 68000 for maths + 1mb of RAM... they even used extra half-brite mode (64 colors) that very few games use.

@Skunkfish (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=348)

The work continues, but we will not release preview updates but the full version when finished. This does not mean that advances in gfxs and other things can be published during progress.

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 10:43, 13 March 17
I think it's rather silly to look at a one-level demo and worry about things being incomplete or not working 100% :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 11:20, 25 March 17
Quote from: menegator on 17:53, 11 March 17
Decent? ??? Pardon my french but this is not merely a decent game, it's f****** amazing game.


The British do have a way of understating things!
Until we are drunk.
I agree with @gryzor with demos, theres still plenty of good things to look forward to.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 21:06, 27 April 17
And "Nightmare":

(http://www.joycogames.com/download/pinball/nightmare.png)

I was afraid that the CPC palette could not give a result so faithful to the original. But finally, I am very happy with the Mac work on the last 2 tables.

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 21:24, 27 April 17

You are doing a good and fast progress. And that's a great conversion. Excellent work.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 21:25, 27 April 17
A true masterpiece!!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 22:23, 27 April 17
Awesome!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 08:41, 28 April 17
Absolutely stunning! Can't wait for the final game!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Neil79 on 10:51, 28 April 17
Featured! - http://www.indieretronews.com/2017/04/pinball-dreams-cpc-fantastic-amiga.html
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:29, 29 April 17
Thanks for the support!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:32, 20 May 17
Hi!
Maybe somebody can help me... To finish Beat Box I only need to implement the "Mega Hit", but I do not remember exactly what it was. I know how to get it to turn on (flashing) and it only lasts for a few seconds, but I do not know what it does, the score it gives, bonus, etc ... Does anyone know? I have been playing and it seems to be difficult to get...

(http://www.joycogames.com/download/pinball/bb_mh.png)


Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 23:32, 20 May 17
Can't really remember as my big score was two decades ago.
Meanwhile the manual said  :picard:


(https://s26.postimg.org/s9i1vg1eh/Capture.jpg)


I don't get it.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 08:06, 21 May 17
Quote from: Rhino on 22:32, 20 May 17
Maybe somebody can help me... To finish Beat Box I only need to implement the "Mega Hit", but I do not remember exactly what it was. I know how to get it to turn on (flashing) and it only lasts for a few seconds, but I do not know what it does, the score it gives, bonus, etc ... Does anyone know? I have been playing and it seems to be difficult to get...

Thanks in advance!
Even the Amiga Longplay video doesn't show what happens! Sorry!



EDIT: Using the YOOTOOB bbcode breaks the timecode. The MEGAHIT section starts from about 1:05:30
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 08:25, 21 May 17
Quote from: VincentGR on 23:32, 20 May 17
Can't really remember as my big score was two decades ago.
Meanwhile the manual said  :picard:


(https://s26.postimg.org/s9i1vg1eh/Capture.jpg)


I don't get it.

Thank you!
From what version is that manual? I have the original Amiga game (first edition) which include less info.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 08:44, 21 May 17
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 08:06, 21 May 17
Even the Amiga Longplay video doesn't show what happens! Sorry!



EDIT: Using the YOOTOOB bbcode breaks the timecode. The MEGAHIT section starts from about 1:05:30

Thank you!
Yes, unfortunately it does not get it. For now I know the following: It remains flashing for 20 seconds, the score shows "COUNTING" + an increasing score from approximately 500,000 to 13,000,000.
I guess when you get it up, you will be given the score that appear at that moment in the scoreboard.  But I find it strange that the counting score is increasing instead of decrementing since it does not encourage you to get it fast and in the end it is all or nothing. It would make more sense to start with a high counter and decrease it, so that the sooner you get the more points you get.

What I do not know is if those points go to the score directly, or to the bonus, and the scoreboard fx when you get it + jingle to play.

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 08:51, 21 May 17
In this one, he gets it immediately (around 07:50) and misses (around 28:00) the second time.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: amijim on 10:29, 21 May 17
What about a cpr edition to try it out on the c4cpc.It certenaly looks amazing.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 11:14, 21 May 17
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 08:51, 21 May 17
In this one, he gets it immediately (around 07:50) and misses (around 28:00) the second time.



Thanks!, that new video clarified my doubts.

@amijim (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1950)
It would be possible!, but it requires 128kb of RAM, so GX4000 would not be compatible.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 14:54, 21 May 17
Quote from: Rhino on 08:25, 21 May 17
Thank you!
From what version is that manual? I have the original Amiga game (first edition) which include less info.


Here you go
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 15:34, 21 May 17
Quote from: Rhino on 11:14, 21 May 17
Thanks!, that new video clarified my doubts.

@amijim (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1950)
It would be possible!, but it requires 128kb of RAM, so GX4000 would not be compatible.


Still totally worth it!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: amijim on 07:02, 22 May 17
Hello there, i guess the majorety of c4cpc modules  are used with amstrad 6128+  as 6128+ was the most successfull model of the plus range and it would be beneficial to make cpr file editions of the newly created software.I do not know neither have the skills to make such a cpr cartridge file edition of pinball dreams but if there somebody out there who has such skills , i would really appreciate to make the cartridge conversion.By the way c4cpc module is really  great!thank you Gerarld!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: CraigsBar on 09:55, 22 May 17
Quote from: amijim on 07:02, 22 May 17
Hello there, i guess the majorety of c4cpc modules  are used with amstrad 6128+  as 6128+ was the most successfull model of the plus range and it would be beneficial to make cpr file editions of the newly created software.I do not know neither have the skills to make such a cpr cartridge file edition of pinball dreams but if there somebody out there who has such skills , i would really appreciate to make the cartridge conversion.By the way c4cpc module is really  great!thank you Gerarld!
Not so sure about that. I am not alone in buying a NOS gx4000 once the c4cpc was released. I actually have 2 one in my plus and one in the gx.

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: gerald on 17:04, 22 May 17
From my numbers, there is an even spread between GX4000 and Plus.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:32, 22 May 17
Quote from: VincentGR on 14:54, 21 May 17

Here you go

Thanks! These instructions look like the PC version, some elements of Beat Box are slightly changed in the screenshot, but contains more info than the Amiga manual I have.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:28, 22 May 17
Quote from: amijim on 07:02, 22 May 17
Hello there, i guess the majorety of c4cpc modules  are used with amstrad 6128+  as 6128+ was the most successfull model of the plus range and it would be beneficial to make cpr file editions of the newly created software.I do not know neither have the skills to make such a cpr cartridge file edition of pinball dreams but if there somebody out there who has such skills , i would really appreciate to make the cartridge conversion.By the way c4cpc module is really  great!thank you Gerarld!


Problem is that 6128+ systems are horribly expensive, but GX4000s are relatively cheap. I certainly use my C4CPC with a GX4000.


However I have no problem with 128K games being cart-ised. Maybe someone will come up with a 64KB expansion hack for the GX4000...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: andycadley on 18:17, 23 May 17
Does it actually need more than 64K ram, or is it something that, with some effort, might be possible to rearrange into cart ROM?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Phantomz on 19:01, 23 May 17
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:28, 22 May 17
Maybe someone will come up with a 64KB expansion hack for the GX4000...

I for one would love to get a GX4000 with 128KB  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MacDeath on 23:17, 23 May 17
QuoteI for one would love to get a GX4000 with 128KB
then just get yourself a 6128PLUS or an upgraded 464PLUS...
:picard:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Phantomz on 01:19, 24 May 17
Quote from: MacDeath on 23:17, 23 May 17
then just get yourself a 6128PLUS or an upgraded 464PLUS...
:picard:

I've already got a 6128 PLUS   ;D

I would like a console with 128k for it's small form factor, the extra memory would help with getting more software running on it.   ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 11:06, 24 May 17
Seems like someone has to make a ram mod  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 11:32, 24 May 17
Quote from: MacDeath on 23:17, 23 May 17
then just get yourself a 6128PLUS or an upgraded 464PLUS...
:picard:


Yeah, these systems are getting pretty expensive these days.
I don't know if it's possible to design a 'ram expansion' cartridge that could live between the GX4000 and the game carts. I suspect that not enough signals are exposed on the cart slot. IIRC Piotr managed to fully CPC-ize a GX4000 motherboard with a lot of effort.
However it may be possible, with some effort, to snapshot the upper-64KB of a 128KB game once it's loaded, stick that into cart ROM, and then update the game code to skip the loading of this data, and change how it's paged in. A lot of work for old games, but maybe doable for in-development games.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Shining on 13:16, 24 May 17
...when you don't use self-modifying code. But it should be possible to put all the static stuff into the cartridge-memory...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 15:39, 24 May 17
I see there are two LM33464G 64k-word x 4-bit ram chips on the GX4000, and also the Amstrad 40464, which is a 3x4-bit DAC.


As the ASIC is the same as in the 6128+, would it be possible to wire another two chips anywhere or change them for bigger ones?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 15:53, 24 May 17
I don't know enough about the hard of the console but I think that it should be possible, at least, to wire a couple of extra chips, yes. I do not think that it would be possible to install bigger capacity ones, though... I am sure that somebody here will be able to confirm or refute this  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 15:55, 24 May 17
Yes! a Piggy-backing approach could do the job.
Maybe a guru guy here has more details about that.


I think you should start a new topic  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 18:27, 24 May 17
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 11:32, 24 May 17
IIRC Piotr managed to fully CPC-ize a GX4000 motherboard with a lot of effort.

That's exactly what Cranium already did in the early 90s. There should be an article in the german CPCAI.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 15:38, 28 May 17
!!!BACK ON TOPIC!!!

A few famous musicianist peoples are now converting the musics for each table... and... I have been informed that the NIGHTMARE musics have now been completed! So that's 50% of the ingame musics have been done! ^_^ Can't wait to see the completed product!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 09:31, 22 June 17
Forgive the double post, but I wanted to let people know that the BEAT BOX musics have been redone by a proper musician and the testing of the "table functionality" and scoring will commence very soon!


Also, Epyteor have completed the crack for the "unofficial" release (which we will spread before the official release! ^_^)
(NOTE: You need to be a fan of the original to understand this joke!)



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 15:08, 22 June 17
I love the "supplied and cracked" part :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 06:00, 23 June 17
Too bad Hewson doesn't believe in the power of the CPC. He could have had my money from a proper release
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 06:58, 23 June 17
Well, if he only had such developers back then...?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 10:15, 24 June 17

Quote from: Gryzor on 06:58, 23 June 17
Well, if he only had such developers back then...?


The better developers that have worked for Hewson on Amstrad games
Dave Rogers
Raffaele Gecco
John Phillips
Dominic Robinson


I think what this is all about is that Andrew Hewson really was a speccycoder
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: arnoldemu on 10:31, 24 June 17
This is now going off topic but I always thought Hewson games were good.

Hewson, Ocean,Elite and Gremlin were consistently good.
The others had a mix of quality.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 16:52, 24 June 17
Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:31, 24 June 17
This is now going off topic but I always thought Hewson games were good.

Hewson, Ocean,Elite and Gremlin were consistently good.
The others had a mix of quality.

I disagree, they all had variable quality. Elite was probably most consistent of these four. Check the releases of the individual companies using this link and enter the name of the company in the search box : http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff
(http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 16:43, 26 June 17
Hi! Where can I buy the game or download it? Sorry for asking, but can't find it in the topic's posts.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: 6128 on 17:12, 26 June 17
This game has not yet been published. Only a demo is available with one of the boards.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 08:49, 27 June 17
Quote from: GUNHED on 16:43, 26 June 17
Hi! Where can I buy the game or download it? Sorry for asking, but can't find it in the topic's posts.  :)

Game is not finished ...oopps .. I have not seen the up-post
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 13:59, 30 June 17
Thanks. Will be a gem for sure.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: jesusdelmas on 03:28, 30 October 17
Hi everyone  ;D  is there a release date or something of this game? I hope is finished before new year :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:26, 30 October 17
Quote from: jesusdelmas on 03:28, 30 October 17
Hi everyone  ;D  is there a release date or something of this game? I hope is finished before new year :)

Hi!

There is no release date yet (and before new year seems too soon), but we continue working to meet the expectations :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: jesusdelmas on 01:19, 31 October 17
Quote from: Rhino on 22:26, 30 October 17
Hi!

There is no release date yet (and before new year seems too soon), but we continue working to meet the expectations :)


cool! thanks for you Answer
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 08:31, 31 October 17
Xmas presents? :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Joseman on 10:13, 31 October 17
Quote from: Rhino on 22:26, 30 October 17
Hi!

There is no release date yet (and before new year seems too soon), but we continue working to meet the expectations :)

The expectations are more than meet with the demo!!

of course this game will be a milestone on cpc games and shut up a lot of mouths (from other scenes)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 13:57, 31 October 17
Well if we are lucky, will fill our socks with disks under the tree  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:25, 07 November 17
We are also trying to contact the current owners of the game rights, in order to not have issues and be able to publish it.
We contacted Hewson Consultants (parents of 21 Century), which redirected us to Rebellion, which have not responded to us for now.
But on the other hand, we are not sure that Rebellion are the current owners of the rights. Does anyone know anything else?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 12:35, 07 November 17
Quote from: Rhino on 12:25, 07 November 17
We are also trying to contact the current owners of the game rights, in order to not have issues and be able to publish it.
We contacted Hewson Consultants (parents of 21 Century), which redirected us to Rebellion, which have not responded to us for now.
But on the other hand, we are not sure that Rebellion are the current owners of the rights. Does anyone know anything else?

Thanks!


You should ask to the demoscene facebook group -> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2449451940/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2449451940/)


Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 12:48, 07 November 17
Quote from: Rhino on 12:25, 07 November 17
We are also trying to contact the current owners of the game rights, in order to not have issues and be able to publish it.
We contacted Hewson Consultants (parents of 21 Century), which redirected us to Rebellion, which have not responded to us for now.
But on the other hand, we are not sure that Rebellion are the current owners of the rights. Does anyone know anything else?
Have you tried DiCE direct? http://www.dice.se/about/
Maybe they have an idea about who still owns copyright.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 13:28, 07 November 17
http://www.dice.se/games/pinball-dreams/ (http://www.dice.se/games/pinball-dreams/)


Try here, really don't know if is somebody else  :-X




EDIT:
Damn didn't see that DICE post was already...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 18:30, 07 November 17
If Hewson suggest Rebellion have the rights then I would think that may be the case.

21st Century released Pinball Dreams 2 developed by Spidersoft rather the DICE, so I suspect the rights to the name sat with them.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 16:33, 08 November 17
Thanks! I will ask DICE (nothing is lost by asking)
I also thought about asking the developers of the C64 version, since I read somewhere that they had obtained the permissions.
As far as I know, 21 Century sold the rights to Rebellion, but I do not know if they keep them. What I know is that it is hard to contact with Rebellion, I've tried it through several routes, web, Facebook, ... and they have not answer. That "lack of interest" could mean that they no longer have the rights ...
On the other hand, Cowboy Rodeo released iOS versions in 2011, but I have not found a trace of them to be able to ask.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 14:33, 22 November 17
Quote from: Rhino on 16:33, 08 November 17
Thanks! I will ask DICE (nothing is lost by asking)
I also thought about asking the developers of the C64 version, since I read somewhere that they had obtained the permissions.
As far as I know, 21 Century sold the rights to Rebellion, but I do not know if they keep them. What I know is that it is hard to contact with Rebellion, I've tried it through several routes, web, Facebook, ... and they have not answer. That "lack of interest" could mean that they no longer have the rights ...
On the other hand, Cowboy Rodeo released iOS versions in 2011, but I have not found a trace of them to be able to ask.


Credit due for atleast making the effort to make contact. Lets hope it's not a stumbling block.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 14:50, 22 November 17
Quote from: Rhino on 16:33, 08 November 17
On the other hand, Cowboy Rodeo released iOS versions in 2011, but I have not found a trace of them to be able to ask.

They seem to have disappeared, but I found an article stating that they licensed the IP from Rebellion:

http://www.develop-online.net/press-releases/cowboy-rodeo-puts-the-classic-pinball-back-to-the-apple-iphone/0135065
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 16:03, 22 November 17
Regarding contacting Rebellion, my normal tactic for these matters is to start from the top.

Jason Kingsley, OBE is the CEO and his Twitter handle is @RebellionJason
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: NiNxPe on 15:24, 14 December 17
...and now, the four tables of the game :

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: khaz on 15:55, 14 December 17
So pretty
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 16:53, 14 December 17
Lovely... just lovely.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 16:54, 14 December 17
TAKE MY MONEY!!!




;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Token on 17:15, 14 December 17
Super work!  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: DanyPPC on 18:30, 14 December 17
Wow ! That's a great job !
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: felow on 14:32, 19 December 17
Impressive!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 15:30, 19 December 17
Superb works of art!  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 17:35, 19 December 17
Quote from: NiNxPe on 15:24, 14 December 17
...and now, the four tables of the game :

[attachimg=1]

You should see them animated! ^_^

Even though it's still very early in the project (and a lot of CBM fanboys would kill me on sight), I have to say that I prefer the CPC version to the Amiga! Rhino is, without a shadow of a doubt, the "Coding God" of the Amstrad!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: cpcitor on 18:23, 19 December 17
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 23:45, 17 September 16

I got proved that a 464 can load tapes recorded at 6500 bauds.

i tested that on my 464, Turrican 2 intro part played in 1mn05, and each level took 20 seconds to load :)

I'm interested. Can you elaborate? Provide links to tools and documentation?

Back to topic, the pinball screens are... gorgeous? Given the platform limitations, there's no word strong enough!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: AxelStone on 21:58, 20 December 17
Really a master piece.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Sice on 00:04, 24 December 17
Hey Rhino,


I'm amazed at this preview. I have a few questions, if the CPU use is only about 50% does this leave the possibility to have the songs using samples for 1 of 2 of the channels, perhaps using Arkos Tracker v2? I love the AY for some sounds (bass, drums etc) but sometimes the square wave is annoying for main melody channels! I was curious if any of the channels might have sampled sound?


Also I'm assuming this game will be a paid one, or at the very least you should setup a donation account for all the hard work gone into it?


Thanks,


Sice

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Fabu on 12:47, 26 September 18
Hello,News of the progress of the game with all the tables? ::)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 06:55, 27 September 18
Quote from: Fabu on 12:47, 26 September 18
Hello,News of the progress of the game with all the tables? ::)
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12369.0;attach=24331;image)

I think there are 4 tables made, for the moment  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Ast on 10:59, 27 September 18
Great but what about the game ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 11:23, 27 September 18
Is there a link to the most recent version?

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 18:58, 27 September 18
Quote from: GUNHED on 11:23, 27 September 18
Is there a link to the most recent version?
I think that this:
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=68387
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 10:46, 06 October 18
Quote from: Sice on 00:04, 24 December 17
Hey Rhino,


I'm amazed at this preview. I have a few questions, if the CPU use is only about 50% does this leave the possibility to have the songs using samples for 1 of 2 of the channels, perhaps using Arkos Tracker v2? I love the AY for some sounds (bass, drums etc) but sometimes the square wave is annoying for main melody channels! I was curious if any of the channels might have sampled sound?


Also I'm assuming this game will be a paid one, or at the very least you should setup a donation account for all the hard work gone into it?


Thanks,


Sice
I'm sorry to answer so late, but I've been disconnected from the retro world for a while.

The problem using samples is basically a memory issue.  On the other hand, we can not sell physical editions since we do not have the rights, but we have thought about doing a very limited edition only for developer members. And thank you for your donation offer, but we are happy to do it just for hobby and love to CPC.

Regards!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 18:19, 07 October 18
I'm just curious, because I don't know: Do I need somekind of right permissons if I copy an idea and design and "only" transfering it to an outdated computer with no commercial potential?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 19:02, 07 October 18
Yes you need.
Youtuber Hiponios paid 2000e for making a smurf game for the Amiga with a game designer software.
The game was free for download, 50 persons got it.


You really don't know when and who will hit you.
I wish we had an answer from PD's rights owner.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:04, 07 October 18
Ideas are not copywriteable. Execution, though, is. And 'design' is execution, so yes, you do.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 22:48, 07 October 18
Ok, thanks. So good luck to Rhino!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:23, 08 October 18
Hey guys, you are not motivating me very much to finish it! hehe
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 14:45, 08 October 18
Quote from: Rhino on 14:23, 08 October 18
Hey guys, you are not motivating me very much to finish it! hehe
Please don't say that! The demo you released showed how capable our CPC could be in the right hands. I'd love to see this reach completion especially given the C64 version is still AWOL!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:47, 08 October 18
I really fail to see how someone would be willingly trying to demotivate you. And even if they were, please do ignore them :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 14:48, 08 October 18
You will Rhino, this game will be written in history among with you all and the CPC as the best 8bit micro.
You carry a heavy weight on your shoulders  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 15:20, 08 October 18
Pinball dreams is already really amazing - I had no idea that this kind of smooth scrolling and sophistication in graphics is even possible on the CPC.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 15:30, 08 October 18
Quote from: Rhino on 14:23, 08 October 18
Hey guys, you are not motivating me very much to finish it! hehe
...hell no, I'm sure you will kick the shit (ups, ...permission) out of owner ass as soon as they see what you have done!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: DanyPPC on 17:40, 08 October 18
But I thought that since the engine was written, instead of selling the port of Pinball Dreams you can make a new game of Flipper with other boards.


I would be really happy to buy a nice Pinball Dreams style game. It's an idea, what about it ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 20:30, 08 October 18
I was just kidding, I really do not expect any legal issue with this project. :)
Contacting the current owners of the rights (Rebellion) does not seem easy, they have ignored me in several attempts ... so it seems that they are in other issues.

On the other hand, I am currently trying to contact Andreas Axelsson because, although currently he does not have the rights, I would not like to release the game without the permission of the original authors.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: amijim on 21:16, 08 October 18
Vacation for a proper pinball flipper game for our cpc.I really like wizzard pinball but i want to contribute to this cpc history somehow.One week for the team.contact me.Hiponiuos also desreves a week for this 2000e.Hponios contact me.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 01:17, 09 October 18
Quote from: Gryzor on 19:04, 07 October 18
Ideas are not copywriteable. Execution, though, is. And 'design' is execution, so yes, you do.


Who owns it now? 21st Century Entertainment or a successor?

21st Century Entertainment were the successor of Hewson, a company recently re-formed and making new games. It's now run by Andrew Hewson and his son.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 04:22, 09 October 18
Well yes, but whether Hewson still retain their IPs or not is a totally different issue, I'd guess... But the Hewsons are very approachable, at least!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:23, 09 October 18
Quote from: amijim on 21:16, 08 October 18
Vacation for a proper pinball flipper game for our cpc.I really like wizzard pinball but i want to contribute to this cpc history somehow.One week for the team.contact me.Hiponiuos also desreves a week for this 2000e.Hponios contact me.
Thank you very much, let us finish the game first and see if it meets expectations.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:24, 09 October 18
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 01:17, 09 October 18

Who owns it now? 21st Century Entertainment or a successor?

21st Century Entertainment were the successor of Hewson, a company recently re-formed and making new games. It's now run by Andrew Hewson and his son.
I contacted Rob Hewson, a very nice guy, who told me that the rights are currently held by Rebellion.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 20:30, 09 October 18
It's nice to hear that this project is not dead! ^_^
Take as much time as you need, Rhino!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Dubliner on 05:25, 10 October 18
Quote from: Rhino on 20:30, 08 October 18
Contacting the current owners of the rights (Rebellion) does not seem easy, they have ignored me in several attempts ... so it seems that they are in other issues.


I maybe can help with that. You have an email.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 18:57, 16 October 18
https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1052256165768249344?https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1052256165768249344
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 19:00, 16 October 18
Google Translate:



Good news, friends, we already have in the final phase the Pinball Dreams game for our beloved Amstrad!
We are in the testing phase so that we have the gaming experience that is most similar to the Amiga 500 version.
We ask you a little patience, friends.


;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: alex76gr on 06:07, 17 October 18
Take all the time you want Batman Group.
We trust in you.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 06:23, 17 October 18
Looking much forward to playing it!!  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 08:34, 17 October 18
A nice present for Christmas. Another one who will be invited in Greece.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 09:15, 17 October 18
Fantastic news. This has the potential to be up with the best Amstrad games of all time...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: remax on 14:12, 23 October 18
I restrained myself to test the demo so that i can fully enjoy the full game... So i'm happy to see that's it's coming to an end :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ukmarkh on 22:19, 24 October 18
Please don't rush, squeeze every last ounce of Amstrad juice into this game! 
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 19:48, 16 February 19
Hi!,

Batman Group is proud to present our new division for the game development "BG Games". This new brand arises from the need to show the world the true potential of CPC as gaming machine.

Pinball Dreams will be the first of our releases. Finished since November, we're just waiting to close a deal with the giant Rebellion to bring the CPC the official version of the famed classic on which industry legends like 21st Century Entertainment or DICE were founded.

The wait will be worth it...

In the meantime, we'd like to show you a little preview in this video teaser:

https://youtu.be/_DetN_pol6g
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 19:49, 16 February 19
Ooooohhhhh goodie goodie
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 21:10, 16 February 19
this is absolute fabulous, I look forward to you reaching an agreement with Rebellion to enjoy this great game  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 21:53, 16 February 19
Thank you!, we have the best negotiating agent in the world and we hope everything goes well. When everything is finished, we will tell you the details.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 22:16, 16 February 19
This is really amazing!


Looking forward to finally play it on my CPC!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 23:57, 16 February 19
Looks amazing! Hope negotiations go well! Good luck!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:59, 17 February 19
Bloody fantastic news! Does this mean a physical release??
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 11:40, 17 February 19
One more true CPC masterpiece!  8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 13:40, 17 February 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:59, 17 February 19
Bloody fantastic news! Does this mean a physical release??
We can't anticipate much info yet, as there's nothing closed yet, but if all goes well, seeing a current industry giant like Rebellion licensing a current release for CPC could be news that transcends not only the CPC scene, but the whole retro scene.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 17:31, 17 February 19
Fingers crossed!  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 20:39, 17 February 19
Looking much forward to it!!! The demo was already fantastic.
Played Pinball Dreams for hours on my Amiga 500 in the late 80s / early 90s.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 13:39, 18 February 19
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 20:39, 17 February 19
Played Pinball Dreams for hours on my Amiga 500 in the late 80s / early 90s.
Wow! Were you a beta tester for the Amiga game? That must've been just so awesome!






EDIT: I am guessing the "downvote" on YOOTOOB is from the USA... from a German "banned from this forum" CPCer perhaps!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 14:30, 18 February 19
Great teaser.


21st Century was founded by former hewson members, wasn't it ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 15:08, 18 February 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:39, 18 February 19Anyway, here's the soundtrack for PD-CPC... if you're interested...
soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc (https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc)
Tasteful sound chip mister!  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:29, 18 February 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:39, 18 February 19EDIT: I am guessing the "downvote" on YOOTOOB is from the USA... from a German "banned from this forum" CPCer perhaps!

I rather think that it is a C64 user :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:31, 18 February 19
Quote from: kawickboy on 14:30, 18 February 19
Great teaser.


21st Century was founded by former hewson members, wasn't it ?

Thanks!
That's right.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 15:45, 18 February 19
Pure A.Y porn  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 16:01, 18 February 19
Quote from: Rhino on 15:29, 18 February 19
I rather think that it is a C64 user :)
Ha! Yeah! You're probably right! ^_^

It's a shame that the other platforms have to hate on each other! Surely they can see if WE can get the license for an official Pinball Dreams, then it will open-up for C64, ZX, MSX, Xl./XE versions, too! Such short-sighted-ness-ess shows that a lot of us (me included) have not grown-up and moved on! Retro Forever!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 17:20, 18 February 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:39, 18 February 19
Wow! Were you a beta tester for the Amiga game? That must've been just so awesome!


Anyway, here's the soundtrack for PD-CPC... if you're interested...
soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc (https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc)


EDIT: I am guessing the "downvote" on YOOTOOB is from the USA... from a German "banned from this forum" CPCer perhaps!
No, I just forgot when I played it. I think it was probably mid 90s. I think maybe it was not before 1993 or so that I played the game.When was it released for the Amiga?

Why are you bringing up that "EDIT:" with some Anti-German / Anti-US / banned member comment in the context of my post?  Is that something I should relate to?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: andycadley on 20:28, 19 February 19
I don't really like pinball, either simulated or the real thing, and I'm excited about this. Share the love people. And yes, getting some level of authenticity to retro remakes on classic hardware has the potential for changing the landscape far and wide, so petty platform/scene arguments really have no place in the discussion.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 09:19, 20 February 19
the game is going to reach perfection, that's great!  8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:27, 20 February 19
Booh, the Soundcloud link is down :(
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 23:07, 21 February 19
Quote from: roudoudou on 09:19, 20 February 19
the game is going to reach perfection, that's great!  8)
Thanks!
If I had to do it again there are some things I would change, but I think the result will not disappoint anyone.

Very important to play it in the real hardware, it is incredible the difference in emulators, not only visually but in the gameplay.
To make the game as the original was necessary an immediate keyboard response, which requires not only that the game runs at 50 fps, but not to use techniques such as double buffer and that the time between reading the keyboard status and the user sees the response on screen is the minimum possible. But the response of the keyboard usually has a delay in emulators that does not occur in the real hardware (either by the management of the keyboard itself or if the emulator includes an internal double buffer), in others games this is hardly appreciated because fewer fps disguise the issue and it only involves moving 1 pixel more or less or a frame before or after, but, in PD hit the ball a frame before/after supposes that the ball angles are different and affect the aim.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 06:06, 22 February 19
Quote from: Rhino on 23:07, 21 February 19
But the response of the keyboard usually has a delay in emulators that does not occur in the real hardware

Well, you can't expect a PC to be as fast as the CPC.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: cpcitor on 10:02, 22 February 19
Quote from: Rhino on 23:07, 21 February 19
To make the game as the original was necessary an immediate keyboard response, which requires not only that the game runs at 50 fps, but not to use techniques such as double buffer and that the time between reading the keyboard status and the user sees the response on screen is the minimum possible. But the response of the keyboard usually has a delay in emulators that does not occur in the real hardware (either by the management of the keyboard itself or if the emulator includes an internal double buffer), in others games this is hardly appreciated because fewer fps disguise the issue and it only involves moving 1 pixel more or less or a frame before or after, but, in PD hit the ball a frame before/after supposes that the ball angles are different and affect the aim.

You nail it. One can be fully unaware of latency for years, and only understand it when seeing a paint-with-fingers application on a tablet.

This video shows practically importance of latency from 100ms (typical modern device) down to 1ms : https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=52

See https://danluu.com/input-lag/ for all details. The Apple 2e has hardware-based debouncing (capacitor,resistor) see https://danluu.com/input-lag/#appendix-apple-2-keyboard .
I would expect the Amstrad CPC to appear in the table roughly at the same spot as the Commodore 64.

It would be very interesting if someone could measure the actual latency on the CPC (in ms), in Basic and with optimized routines.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 12:24, 22 February 19
Quote from: cpcitor on 10:02, 22 February 19

It would be very interesting if someone could measure the actual latency on the CPC (in ms), in Basic and with optimized routines.
2 cases with games with low fps:
- 10 fps for game but 50fps for keyboard (AFAIK this does not exist) -> response is 20ms but display is delayed anyway

- 10 fps for game AND 10 fps for keyboard (dragon ninja, chaseHQ, ...) -> response is 100ms
high-fps game like pinball
- 50 fps for game and 50 fps for keyboard -> response is 20ms


Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: cpcitor on 13:45, 22 February 19
Has anyone got a high speed camera?

From https://danluu.com/input-lag/#appendix-experimental-setup :

Quote
Most measurements were taken with the 240fps camera (4.167 ms resolution) in the iPhone SE. Devices with response times below 40 ms were re-measured with a 1000fps camera (1 ms resolution), the Sony RX100 V in PAL mode. Results in the tables are the results of multiple runs and are rounded to the nearest 10 ms to avoid the impression of false precision. For desktop results, results are measured from when the key started moving until the screen finished updating.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:46, 22 February 19
Quote from: cpcitor on 10:02, 22 February 19
You nail it. One can be fully unaware of latency for years, and only understand it when seeing a paint-with-fingers application on a tablet.

This video shows practically importance of latency from 100ms (typical modern device) down to 1ms : https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=52 (https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=52)

See https://danluu.com/input-lag/ (https://danluu.com/input-lag/) for all details. The Apple 2e has hardware-based debouncing (capacitor,resistor) see https://danluu.com/input-lag/#appendix-apple-2-keyboard (https://danluu.com/input-lag/#appendix-apple-2-keyboard) .
I would expect the Amstrad CPC to appear in the table roughly at the same spot as the Commodore 64.

It would be very interesting if someone could measure the actual latency on the CPC (in ms), in Basic and with optimized routines.

A very interesting article, thanks!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:59, 22 February 19
Quote from: roudoudou on 12:24, 22 February 19
2 cases with games with low fps:
- 10 fps for game but 50fps for keyboard (AFAIK this does not exist) -> response is 20ms but display is delayed anyway

- 10 fps for game AND 10 fps for keyboard (dragon ninja, chaseHQ, ...) -> response is 100ms
high-fps game like pinball
- 50 fps for game and 50 fps for keyboard -> response is 20ms
Also note that fps is not the only variable, if a game runs at 50 fps but uses double buffer, the keyboard response is applied first to the working screen buffer that will be visible in the next frame, so there is a delay of an additional frame in that case. Without double buffer the time between checking keys and visualization is, in theory, less than 20ms depending on which moment of the frame the keyboard status is read.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 18:54, 26 February 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:27, 20 February 19
Booh, the Soundcloud link is down :(
It was a "teaser"! ^_^You will have to wait until the full game is released to hear the other tables' musics!
Bwha! Ha! Ha! ha!

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:48, 26 February 19
Aw come on!I listen to his music on my commute from work (seriously)!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 19:51, 26 February 19
That's why the internet sucks. Can't trust it. Gotta have everything offline.

Luckily I downloaded everything. Wanna buy a Blu-ray edition?  8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 20:07, 26 February 19
Make it 3" and I'm game [emoji16]

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 20:33, 26 February 19
Sorry, only the streamed audio was available.

But I can mail you a Blu-ray disc with its own embedded webserver that you can access on your CPC via your M4 expansion and load it into your MSX MP3 plugin via AMSDAP.

Unless of course you know of a geekier way.....
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: PuzCPC on 05:00, 27 February 19
Looking forward to this masterpiece!
Almost better than the Amiga version. :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Neil79 on 01:07, 02 March 19
Pinball Dreams on the Amstrad CPC - An EXCLUSIVE First Look!

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qqYL45bB0-4/XHnJxXSc_hI/AAAAAAAApGI/DJDTc7htcUscnHFg4KLTO7fm9hQt7ER9ACLcBGAs/s640/b3e9c853d433566eebde0aa0cc29c6e292baf7fb542cbea10dc12219614ab2e9.png)

http://www.indieretronews.com/2019/03/pinball-dreams-on-amstrad-cpc-exclusive.html (http://www.indieretronews.com/2019/03/pinball-dreams-on-amstrad-cpc-exclusive.html)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 06:39, 02 March 19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMmkfvUKQ28
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 08:18, 02 March 19
Except the redundant over-enjoyed comments "never seen on CPC", speaking about classics overscan screens and 50Hz vertical texts and pictures scrolling, it is a nice video as the game looks really really well achieved and adapted to the Amstrad CPC. Great and polished works! Nice to have recorded the real monitor at the end!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 08:39, 02 March 19
It does look good - I'll  be doing a video review as soon as I can get a copy..
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Xifos on 10:50, 02 March 19
Hey it's amiga perfect !
;)
(good to see it works with ram expansion)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 11:22, 02 March 19
Simply stunning! I really can't wait to try this out for real!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 11:30, 02 March 19
I wonder if it would be possible to play from a Dandanator or M4 devices.


Arnoldemu's disk routines are superb, but disks themselves are a pain, and I simply don't have time to go search for an external disk drive, a computer with disk drive, appropriate disk, to play when I have very little time.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 13:27, 02 March 19
I'd just like to mention;

75% of the music was done by RAFT/TRSI.
24.9% of the music was done by McKlain.
0.1% of the music was done by me! ^_^

100% of the in-table sfx was done by RAFT/TRSI.



However, I have been playing this game for THREE YEARS (as an official tester) and I now totally hate it! ^_^

Major respects to everyone at BGGames and the external testers for their amazing work over the three years! You should be proud of what you have achieved here! We (me included) look forward to the official release! IT... LOOKS... AMAZING!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Syncmaster319 on 16:11, 02 March 19

Hi All,


Does anyone know if Pinball Dream preview works with the M4 Wifi Board?  I just get a black screen on my standard 6128 (CRTC2)


Thanks
Mark





Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 21:06, 02 March 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:27, 02 March 19
I'd just like to mention;

75% of the music was done by RAFT/TRSI.
24.9% of the music was done by McKlain.
0.1% of the music was done by me! ^_^

100% of the in-table sfx was done by RAFT/TRSI.



However, I have been playing this game for THREE YEARS (as an official tester) and I now totally hate it! ^_^

Major respects to everyone at BGGames and the external testers for their amazing work over the three years! You should be proud of what you have achieved here! We (me included) look forward to the official release! IT... LOOKS... AMAZING!

You are too modest, I would say that 90% of the music is yours :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 21:09, 02 March 19
Quote from: Syncmaster319 on 16:11, 02 March 19
Hi All,


Does anyone know if Pinball Dream preview works with the M4 Wifi Board?  I just get a black screen on my standard 6128 (CRTC2)


Thanks
Mark
Currently it is not compatible with M4 because it uses its own disk loader, maybe it would be possible to make a M4 version replacing the current loader with an exclusive one for M4.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 21:34, 02 March 19
Quote from: Rhino on 21:09, 02 March 19
Currently it is not compatible with M4 because it uses its own disk loader, maybe it would be possible to make a M4 version replacing the current loader with an exclusive one for M4.


That would be very nice!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Duke on 00:03, 03 March 19
Quote from: Rhino on 21:09, 02 March 19
Currently it is not compatible with M4 because it uses its own disk loader, maybe it would be possible to make a M4 version replacing the current loader with an exclusive one for M4.
Let me know if there is anything I can do to help it a long.
No system/firmware is needed for sector read/writing from/to a dsk image with M4, so if it can fit ie. a romdos .dsk image (~800 KB), that should be easy to make low level loader for.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Neil79 on 00:19, 03 March 19
 8) 8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 13:36, 03 March 19
Quote from: Duke on 00:03, 03 March 19
Let me know if there is anything I can do to help it a long.
No system/firmware is needed for sector read/writing from/to a dsk image with M4, so if it can fit ie. a romdos .dsk image (~800 KB), that should be easy to make low level loader for.
Thanks!
The Arnoldemu loader works with tracks/sectors, so it should be easy to adapt.I could also try to make a global record table with the internet connection.The first thing is to buy an M4, is it currently for sale?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 13:41, 03 March 19
Holy crap!!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Fessor on 21:33, 03 March 19
But why track/sector-loading? Why not a mass storage-friendly solution?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 21:56, 03 March 19
Quote from: Fessor on 21:33, 03 March 19
But why track/sector-loading? Why not a mass storage-friendly solution?
May be, because the CPC is originaly a computer using a floppy disc drive?  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: PuzCPC on 12:07, 04 March 19
I can not wait to play Steel Wheel. What a great music! :o :o

And of course everything else is perfect!


PuzCPC
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 12:22, 04 March 19
CPC is in the retrogaming spotlight with a such great project.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:00, 05 March 19
Quote from: Fessor on 21:33, 03 March 19
But why track/sector-loading? Why not a mass storage-friendly solution?
Track/sector is the classic method of loading faster and get more capacity on disks, as well as flexibility to make better use of memory and other advantages such as being able to play music while loading.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 14:44, 05 March 19
Please stay with discs, thats the native medium of the CPC (aside of tapes.... but brrr no!). So please don't expect that everybody is owning and using (predominantly) mass-storage solutions. Actually the only one working is the M4 card anyway. Even it over 500 (I guess) were sold there may be still people preferring real discs.
About the format, use a 3.5" and you can get up to 700-800 KB. IMHO for a flipper that's enough. It doesn't use streaming VIds or so.


I'm looking forward to a nice an polished release.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 18:47, 05 March 19
Obviously, a CPC 128K game have to be loaded from the 3" floppy drive to be impressive.
Next, it is fine if a 80 tracks version allows to not turn the floppy disc to play the game.
A bonus if the game is released later in "files format", to run from any mass storage.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 18:59, 05 March 19
i guess Chany will do the XMEM version  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 19:03, 05 March 19
Quote from: roudoudou on 18:59, 05 March 19
i guess Chany will do the XMEM version  ;D
I though the same while I wrote my answer.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 21:51, 05 March 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 14:44, 05 March 19
Please stay with discs, thats the native medium of the CPC (aside of tapes.... but brrr no!). So please don't expect that everybody is owning and using (predominantly) mass-storage solutions. Actually the only one working is the M4 card anyway. Even it over 500 (I guess) were sold there may be still people preferring real discs.
About the format, use a 3.5" and you can get up to 700-800 KB. IMHO for a flipper that's enough. It doesn't use streaming VIds or so.


I'm looking forward to a nice an polished release.  :) :) :)
Thanks!,
Yes, I think the disk version is mandatory, but alternative versions so that more people can run it on real hardware are always welcome.
On M4, it is also very attractive a global records table that increases competition between players from around the world.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 22:20, 05 March 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 14:44, 05 March 19
Please stay with discs, thats the native medium of the CPC (aside of tapes.... but brrr no!). So please don't expect that everybody is owning and using (predominantly) mass-storage solutions. Actually the only one working is the M4 card anyway. Even it over 500 (I guess) were sold there may be still people preferring real discs.


I am a big fan of M4, but it seems there is one new firmware patch required for every game  ;) 
Without a proper disk controller the M4 is a no-go for me as a DSK emulator (I have tried to many standard DSK images that work perfectly fine on DDI3, Gotek Flash Floppy, HxC), that would not work on the M4.


So please stay with standard DSK. Of course there is nothing wrong about releasing an M4 compatible version, but it is a pitty that this is required for so many games. 
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Targhan on 00:26, 06 March 19
QuoteYes, I think the disk version is mandatory, but alternative versions so that more people can run it on real hardware

Isn't it paradoxal? :)

The discussion is interesting, but I think the day games are not produced on disk anymore will be a sad day!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 07:30, 06 March 19
I don't think the discussion is whether to release the games on disk or not, but to use a format that allows them to run from mass storage devices.


For me having to search for the external drive and its psu makes almost impossible to play a game given my limited time to do so. In that case, I'll play on an emulator, but then again I'll miss the real experience.

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 13:09, 06 March 19
Quote from: Rhino on 21:51, 05 March 19
it is also very attractive a global records table that increases competition between players from around the world.
I presume the "online leaderboard" will not be assessible to development/evaluation personnel!
I can max-out the score on all four tables, so will be constantly on the top of that leaderboard! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 14:36, 06 March 19
Quote from: robcfg on 07:30, 06 March 19
I don't think the discussion is whether to release the games on disk or not, but to use a format that allows them to run from mass storage devices.
Better to be clear about a floppy version, as the subject has not been addressed while games are published on alternate media such as cartridges.. The format to run on mass storage devices is obvious: files into a folder (like on PC) and currently it looks to be not an option for this game but only an alternate solution to mount a DSK with the M4 from its SD card.

About the online "hall of fames", I hope we can access it from an Internet connexion using a bluetooth communication and its smartphone too. ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 17:20, 06 March 19
Quote from: robcfg on 07:30, 06 March 19
For me having to search for the external drive and its psu makes almost impossible to play a game given my limited time to do so. In that case, I'll play on an emulator, but then again I'll miss the real experience.
What are you using? I ask because it may be of interest to software makers.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 18:03, 06 March 19
An external 3.5" disk drive, that of course need its own psu.


It doesn't seem much, but when you're as short on time as me, finding all the pieces may take most of the time I could be playing.


Add to that the possible disk and drive errors.


I'd be happy having a physical disk edition, but for playing I would prefer to have it M4 compatible.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:07, 06 March 19
Quote from: robcfg on 18:03, 06 March 19
An external 3.5" disk drive, that of course need its own psu.

I'd be happy having a physical disk edition, but for playing I would prefer to have it M4 compatible.


Nobody suggested a pysical edition... people are suggesting to have standard DSK file containing the game.
Sure, there could be a "M4 installer version" that unpacks the DSK content onto mass storage on the M4.
But requires hardware driver...

The DSK file you put into your Flash Floppy Gotek or HxC or DDI3.


You can also (try to) mount a DSK file from your M4, but most standard DSK files don't work with the M4. Maybe a special M4 compatible DSK file for the game will do?


For the PSU, you don't need one. Even my 6128 doesn't get 12 V anymore, and the Flash Floppy Gotek gets its power from John's @ikonsgr (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=541)  y cable 5 V to MOLEX splitter...



Never had a single drive error with my Gotek  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 19:14, 06 March 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:09, 06 March 19
I presume the "online leaderboard" will not be assessible to development/evaluation personnel!
I can max-out the score on all four tables, so will be constantly on the top of that leaderboard! ^_^
hehe, well, maybe you'll find a rival worthy of you :)
I was even thinking of organizing contests according the global leaderboard...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 20:32, 06 March 19

Quote from: LambdaMikel
Nobody suggested a pysical edition... people are suggesting to have standard DSK file containing the game.
Sure, there could be a "M4 installer version" that unpacks the DSK content onto mass storage on the M4.
But requires hardware driver...


There are plenty of reasons to choose a custom disk format, but if you can do with standard format disks, it would work for everyone.


Quote from: LambdaMikel
The DSK file you put into your Flash Floppy Gotek or HxC or DDI3.


If you have or you like modded machines, yes, they are nice solutions.


Quote from: LambdaMikel
You can also (try to) mount a DSK file from your M4, but most standard DSK files don't work with the M4. Maybe a special M4 compatible DSK file for the game will do?


As mentioned above, the format used for PD is the special one, not a regular amsdos format disk, which would be M4 compatible.


Quote from: LambdaMikel
For the PSU, you don't need one. Even my 6128 doesn't get 12 V anymore, and the Flash Floppy Gotek gets its power from John's @ikonsgr (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=541)  y cable 5 V to MOLEX splitter...


Sure. If you don't use your original drive.


Quote from: LambdaMikel
Never had a single drive error with my Gotek


Neither me with my M4, plus I'm having a lot of fun with the Wi-Fi capability.


And please don't get me wrong, I appreciate your interest in finding alternative solutions but no way I'm going to have 3 or 4 different solutions, one for playing games, one for the Wi-Fi, another one for extra memory...


Certainly I could customise one of my CPCs to death but then again I think it would be easier not to use custom loaders.


That's a thing I like about the new cartridge formats, they are literally Plug'n'Play  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 20:34, 06 March 19
Quote from: robcfg on 20:32, 06 March 19That's a thing I like about the new cartridge formats, they are literally Plug'n'Play :D
Peoples unliked the same idea 5 years ago. So much time lost! ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 20:36, 06 March 19
Quote from: TotO on 20:34, 06 March 19
Peoples unliked the same idea 5 years ago. So much time lost! ;D


While I'm sure many liked the Plus range with the cartridge port...  :picard:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 20:47, 06 March 19
Well, it's a CPC democracy, right?  ;D
Telling people what they should be using or not doesn't roll very well with many people... everybody has his/her own ideas about a setup. Declaring that one expansion card is "the one and only and you shall not have any expansion card besides it" is a bit... well...  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 20:56, 06 March 19
That's not what I'm saying!


It's just that not having PD in a M4 compatible format will make me less likely to play it because of my circumstances, nothing else.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:02, 06 March 19
Oh good then. Well I think many of us would love to play it on the M4, so that should be a good incentive for the authors of this great game to make it happen. And others will certainly appreciate if it also runs on DDI3 and HxC and Gotek.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 21:12, 06 March 19
Definitely!


Should it work on a M4 via a dsk file, then it should work too on a Gotek, DDI3 or HxC.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 21:20, 06 March 19
we are forgetting something important, we need the approval of Rebellion !!!  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 13:46, 07 March 19
Quote from: Rhino on 19:14, 06 March 19
hehe, well, maybe you'll find a rival worthy of you :)
Maybe in two years of constant play! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: CraigsBar on 11:19, 15 March 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 13:46, 07 March 19
Maybe in two years of constant play! ^_^
I just hope the rest of us get a chance to try 😔
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 01:09, 17 March 19
I hope the rest of us get a chance to buy the game
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 12:19, 17 March 19
Quote from: ivarf on 01:09, 17 March 19
I hope the rest of us get a chance to buy the game
Rhino has already said it's a free game; I'd question anyone charging real-world monies for it! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 12:44, 17 March 19
I think that it would be nice to be able to buy it in a nice physical format.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 13:12, 17 March 19
I too hope for a physical release.

Also, installing on M4 SD would be ideal.

I'm a supporter for system expansions, as long as the core remains the same:
eg ACA500Plus is acceptable, Vampire is NOT!  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 14:10, 17 March 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 12:19, 17 March 19
Rhino has already said it's a free game; I'd question anyone charging real-world monies for it! ^_^



It would be so nice to have this official game in a high quality box on the shelf (that is after two years of heavy playing)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams CPC
Post by: tastefulmrship on 14:50, 17 March 19
Now that the full game has been previewed, here's the full soundtrack (https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc-full-soundtrack).


Converted to the AY-chip by McKlain and RaFT/TRSI.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 19:34, 17 March 19
On behalf of all Batman Group members, we would like to express our sincere thanks to SuTeKH/Epyteor for his great work on the soundtrack, as well as testing and involvement in the whole project. There have been several years of tireless collaboration in which we were not only surprised by the immense quality of his work, but the dedication and enthusiasm with which always encouraged us to finish the project.
We hope Pinball Dreams will only be the first of more projects we can have the pleasure of working with him on, as well as the rest of the collaborators. In them is the true spirit that makes the CPC scene so great!

¡Gracias Amigos!

- BG-
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 20:06, 17 March 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 12:19, 17 March 19
Rhino has already said it's a free game; I'd question anyone charging real-world monies for it! ^_^

I think if any physical version were to be released, then Rebellion would probably want some of the profits.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 14:16, 18 March 19
Quote from: Rhino on 19:34, 17 March 19
On behalf of all Batman Group members, we would like to express our sincere thanks to SuTeKH/Epyteor for his great work on the soundtrack, as well as testing and involvement in the whole project. There have been several years of tireless collaboration in which we were not only surprised by the immense quality of his work, but the dedication and enthusiasm with which always encouraged us to finish the project.
We hope Pinball Dreams will only be the first of more projects we can have the pleasure of working with him on, as well as the rest of the collaborators. In them is the true spirit that makes the CPC scene so great!
Thank you, Rhino, for those gracious words, but McKlain devised ALL of the "intro instruments" that produced the "intro", "menu" and "selection" tunes (with a LOT of help from RaFT/TRSI!)
RaFT/TRSI devised ALL of the table instruments and ALL of the table SFXs. The only thing I did was copy Olof Gustaffson's (Blaizer/TSL) notes from the Amiga modules (freely downloadable from AMP)... note by note! RaFT/TRSI then corrected the notes and volumes for everything making what I did sound correct on a REAL Amstrad CPC!


My contribution to this "mammoth 8-Bit project" was small, but rewarding, and I am honoured that Rhino wanted me to be a part of the whole PINBALL DREAMS process and, yes, I would be more than happy to help (especially with testing) for any/all BGGames projects in the future!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:13, 22 March 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 14:16, 18 March 19
Thank you, Rhino, for those gracious words, but McKlain devised ALL of the "intro instruments" that produced the "intro", "menu" and "selection" tunes (with a LOT of help from RaFT/TRSI!)
RaFT/TRSI devised ALL of the table instruments and ALL of the table SFXs. The only thing I did was copy Olof Gustaffson's (Blaizer/TSL) notes from the Amiga modules (freely downloadable from AMP)... note by note! RaFT/TRSI then corrected the notes and volumes for everything making what I did sound correct on a REAL Amstrad CPC!


My contribution to this "mammoth 8-Bit project" was small, but rewarding, and I am honoured that Rhino wanted me to be a part of the whole PINBALL DREAMS process and, yes, I would be more than happy to help (especially with testing) for any/all BGGames projects in the future!
Great!, because we're finishing up a showable preview of our next BG project and it'll be good to have you. We'll soon announce it.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 19:19, 22 March 19
(https://media.giphy.com/media/KuupTWNNuO6TC/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 22:42, 22 March 19
Quote from: Nich on 20:06, 17 March 19
I think if any physical version were to be released, then Rebellion would probably want some of the profits.
Well, if somone can put it onto a real 3" disc for me (naturally I'd supply the disc and return postage), I'd be very thankful.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: NiNxPe on 05:49, 27 March 19
...and the Plus version :

   

 
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 07:41, 27 March 19
Wow!


With the Plus palette it looks more 16-bit than ever!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 08:27, 27 March 19
Wow indeed. I'm salivating!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: DanyPPC on 09:17, 27 March 19
WoW ! That's amazing !!!


So the Plus version could use hardware scrolling too  ;) 
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 14:10, 27 March 19
Those Plus screens look awesome.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Phantomz on 14:55, 27 March 19
The original version looks great, however I'm loving the Plus screens. ;D


It would be nice to get this on cartridge in the future if possible.  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 15:11, 27 March 19
The 1st spanish game with cpc plus features isn't it ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 21:51, 27 March 19
Quote from: NiNxPe on 05:49, 27 March 19
...and the Plus version :

 
A very faithful result to the original! Using the plus cartridge the boards could be 320 pixels wide instead of 256 and use sprites to add more colors and resolution to some parts, which visually could be even better.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 09:15, 28 March 19
One game to rule them all.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: CraigsBar on 20:09, 23 April 19
Any more news on a release date? I kept seeing it run on  a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Targhan on 21:24, 23 April 19
QuoteI kept seeing it run on  a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.
Well I kept *playing* it at Revision :). Very good game indeed :).
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: CraigsBar on 01:40, 24 April 19
Quote from: Targhan on 21:24, 23 April 19
Well I kept *playing* it at Revision :). Very good game indeed :).
I mean you could clearly see it on the twitch stream.... Very kewl! (Sir Garbage) Truck mentioned it a couple of times in commentary too.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 18:09, 24 April 19
Quote from: Targhan on 21:24, 23 April 19
Well I kept *playing* it at Revision :) . Very good game indeed :) .
Thanks! Btw, do you know if anyone's gonna do a party review/report? I found the revival of the Amiga scene particularly interesting, or at least the competition was very lively.
And congratulations on the Third Kind award! Very impressive!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Targhan on 22:38, 24 April 19
I guess Hicks or Tom's will ask a CPCist among us to make a report.

QuoteAnd congratulations on the Third Kind award! Very impressive!
I only did the sound effects, the hardest work was provided by Hicks and Beb!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Phantomz on 15:01, 25 April 19
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:09, 23 April 19
Any more news on a release date? I kept seeing it run on  a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

I keep checking to see if there is any news myself.  ::)

Looking forward to playing it.  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: CraigsBar on 16:51, 25 April 19
Quote from: Phantomz on 15:01, 25 April 19
I keep checking to see if there is any news myself.  ::)

Looking forward to playing it.  ;D
Aren't we all, Phantomz, aren't we all!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:58, 27 April 19
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:09, 23 April 19
Any more news on a release date? I kept seeing it run on  a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
There is no news yet, but seeing what happened with Super Mario on C64, we will have to keep waiting...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Kris on 19:17, 11 August 19
Still no news ?


Here is a Plus version of the intro gfx, just to bump this thread :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 16:31, 14 August 19
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:51, 25 April 19
Aren't we all, Phantomz, aren't we all!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Very jealous they let Xyphoe and Novabug review it..
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 13:07, 20 August 19
Quote from: Kris on 19:17, 11 August 19
Still no news ?


Here is a Plus version of the intro gfx, just to bump this thread :)
Hi!The matter is at a standstill during the summer holidays, but we hope that shortly afterwards we will be able to announce some news.
Thank you for your interest!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 13:09, 20 August 19
Ah! Great, thanks for keeping us up to date :) :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 10:47, 25 August 19
Here's hoping for some good news - would be a pity if only the select few gets to play what looks like a masterpiece.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 18:27, 15 September 19
https://youtu.be/6dje0GUg0Q4
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 18:29, 15 September 19
Thank you Rhino and everyone involved.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 18:32, 15 September 19
Both websites are under construction.
Next year so. How will the game distribute the game ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: vasilisk on 18:44, 15 September 19
Yeah baby... The waiting is almost over...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 18:55, 15 September 19
OH FUCK I'M DROOLING
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:33, 15 September 19
BTW, why on Earth would they use the American date system?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 20:08, 15 September 19
it's time to Pinball !!!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: HAL6128 on 20:16, 15 September 19
Nice announcement.
I like the words "underrated computer EVER". It's so exciting to see what is done and will be done by clever programming done by clever people.



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 21:36, 15 September 19
Put simply...


...I CAN'T WAIT!


Wahoooo!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Token on 21:55, 15 September 19
Finally!  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 23:52, 15 September 19
Oh finally  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


I´m playing the demo again and again and was hoping to see a release, can´t wait for it .... only two weeks left ! WHOOOHOOO  :o :P ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 06:25, 16 September 19
Dammit! >:( I've had the PINBALL ILLUSIONS menu music stuck in my brain for the last few days!  :D

Seriously though, it's great to hear this is finally going to be released to the community!
A huge congratulations to all the developers and testers; this is truly an 8-bit masterpiece! And, finally, thanks for putting up with my alcoholic ramblings and rantings over the past three or so years!

Forward to Vespertino?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 20:35, 16 September 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 06:25, 16 September 19
Seriously though, it's great to hear this is finally going to be released to the community!
A huge congratulations to all the developers and testers; this is truly an 8-bit masterpiece! And, finally, thanks for putting up with my alcoholic ramblings and rantings over the past three or so years!

What if... BG Games are actually releasing a different game? Is there anywhere in that video that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: vasilisk on 20:43, 16 September 19
Quote from: Nich on 20:35, 16 September 19
What if... BG Games are actually releasing a different game? Is there anywhere in that video that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)


We are in the pinball dreams thread. So logically this is the one.  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:34, 17 September 19
You think they'd troll us like that with that soundtrack?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MaV on 18:31, 17 September 19
Of course it's just a scam. Batman Forever was unreal, so this can't possibly be true.

Therefore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnX5wci404&t=34 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnX5wci404&t=34)
(Click on the link below the video to jump to the appropriate scene.)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MaV on 18:39, 17 September 19
Also:
https://i.imgur.com/xqEmwsG.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/xqEmwsG.jpg)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:13, 17 September 19
Lol inappropes?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: MaV on 20:11, 17 September 19
Yeah, quite! *g* I found it while searching for the video. Shows the cute little plush balls the way they really are. :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 20:25, 17 September 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:34, 17 September 19
You think they'd troll us like that with that soundtrack?

I was being facetious. ;)

However, come the 1st of October, BG Games could unveil... a platform game based around the Mario demo that @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) previewed a couple of years ago?!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 20:27, 17 September 19
I will not be surprised if I see Crysis on the CPC by them...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 19:17, 19 September 19
Quote from: Nich on 20:35, 16 September 19
What if... BG Games are actually releasing a different game? Is there anywhere in that video that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)
Is there anything in my original post that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:41, 19 September 19
I don't think he was replying specifically to your post tho...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 04:58, 20 September 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 19:41, 19 September 19
I don't think he was replying specifically to your post tho...
This is always a possibility, yes! But, my post was quoted, so...
... but, I can see where you read something different to me... my apologies! ^_^

Anyway, I was just adding to the overall intrigue of BGGames' ambiguous Yootoob video!
We'll all find out soon, I guess! And being Batman Group (BGGames) it will be brilliant!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 19:22, 25 September 19
  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTdjZTliODYtNWExMi00NjQ1LWIzN2MtN2Q5NTg5NTk3NzliL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTAyODkwOQ@@._V1_.jpg)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Token on 15:44, 30 September 19
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/l0DAHmJva9dOQi8b6/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 13:52, 01 October 19
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/well-im-waiting-gif-7.gif)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 14:41, 01 October 19
https://twitter.com/jdjuanje/status/1178965037366566918
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 14:43, 01 October 19
Clock is ticking ..... YAY  8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:53, 01 October 19
F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 15:13, 01 October 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:53, 01 October 19
F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


My F5 already gave up and broke  :P :laugh:
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ldaneels on 17:21, 01 October 19
Is that sad that we are still pressing F5, knowing full well the reveal will be at 22PM?Goes on press F5....
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 17:28, 01 October 19
destroys joystick.
connects the autofire chip to F5.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 18:37, 01 October 19
Quote from: Nich on 20:25, 17 September 19
However, come the 1st of October, BG Games could unveil... a platform game based around the Mario demo that @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) previewed a couple of years ago?!
Do we have a link (for somebody having no facebook, twitter...)?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 19:01, 01 October 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 18:37, 01 October 19
Do we have a link (for somebody having no facebook, twitter...)?


you can watch it live on twitch, link to channel is in the post above  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 19:01, 01 October 19
Sadly I can't, but hope for a Youtube Vid later on.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 19:06, 01 October 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 19:01, 01 October 19
Sadly I can't, but hope for a Youtube Vid later on.  :)


hmm, not at home at 22:00 ? guess you can also watch all streams from him on twitch again after they have been broadcasted
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 19:46, 01 October 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 19:01, 01 October 19
Sadly I can't, but hope for a Youtube Vid later on.  :)
with subtitles maybe  :P
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 21:26, 01 October 19

https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1179130726710730752




Donwload !!!  :o :o https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=83118 (https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=83118)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 21:27, 01 October 19
Thank you
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: vasilisk on 21:29, 01 October 19
Thank you
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: teopl on 21:41, 01 October 19
Yes! Thank you!  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 21:45, 01 October 19
Rhino will be written in history as the C64 killer  ;D
The brown one has fallen.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 21:50, 01 October 19
Excellent!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 21:50, 01 October 19
BIG THX to everyone involved in this great Project  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 22:07, 01 October 19
Congratulations!


I'll play on my CPC this weekend. I think on emulators the input lag is quite noticeable.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 22:09, 01 October 19
Quote from: robcfg on 22:07, 01 October 19
Congratulations!


I'll play on my CPC this weekend. I think on emulators the input lag is quite noticeable.


This game deserves to run on the real thing, crt scrolling and no input lag.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Trixster on 22:21, 01 October 19
Since the guys cannot sell this, they have a Patreon or PayPal so we can donate? I'd glad send some cash for their efforts
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 22:32, 01 October 19
Awesome game and awesome effort! Thank you so much guys, seriously  :-* :-*
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: teopl on 22:41, 01 October 19
Is it possible to run on CPC 464 and SF3 card? I am getting the message that 128K is required...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: slugman on 23:15, 01 October 19
SF3 has 2mo ram but doesn't support .dsk file yet.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: 00WReX on 03:59, 02 October 19
I just finished a 'Pinball Dreams' gaming session on real hardware.

Simply awesome.  Well done to all involved.  ;)

The scrolling is so smooth, and the gameplay and music/sounds is all excellent.

Cheers,
Shane
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 05:42, 02 October 19
How very annoying it turned out to be impossible to get the license.  :(
That's just not right.

Creating this production deserves something.

I strongly encourage everyone to donate to the group.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 06:47, 02 October 19
Quote from: teopl on 22:41, 01 October 19
Is it possible to run on CPC 464 and SF3 card? I am getting the message that 128K is required...

i think yes, edit SF3.INI

*CPC 464 select external RAM hack 
CPC464=TOTO
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: kawickboy on 07:32, 02 October 19
A new CPC masterpiece is out now.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 07:36, 02 October 19
I can already say my little girls love the game (on real hardware of course)

about me i'm enjoying tunes while they are playing
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Loki on 08:34, 02 October 19
I was playing this in the early hours last night, absolutely amazing, there were moments where I got so immersed in the game that I pretty much forgot I was playing the CPC version, just felt like classic Pinball Dreams. Huge thanks and congrats to all involved, cheers!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Carnivius on 08:41, 02 October 19
Was playing for an hour last night (On emulator, I just have a 464) and it's absolutely superb.  Graphics and sound are high quality but it's the gameplay that really impresses, cos it just feels so similar to the Amiga original's feel in smoothness and the physics of the ball that it's amazing to think this is running on a machine well known for receiving far too many dodgy sluggish Speccy ports. Shame you couldn't make it official, it really deserves it.   I'd happily donate a few quid in appreciation.  Definitely one to show off to the Spectrum and C64 owners when they insult our machines. :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Hwikaa on 10:57, 02 October 19
Wow.


I just played the game on real hardware. With CRTC 2. And I just can't believe it. The game is so smooth, so fast, so fluid, so rewarding! Musics and graphics are awesome! Bold choices when it comes to colors, by the way.


It's literally flawless. Impressive. Perfect.


And I'm not even into pinball games.


Great job, Batman Group!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 11:30, 02 October 19
Thanks to all, fellas!
I hope you have fun and make good scores!

About the license, we talked about it yesterday in the live show we did with Juanje on Twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/juanjel (https://www.twitch.tv/juanjel)
At first everything was going well, they sent us the Rebellion logo and a copyright message to put in the intro, but it got complicated when Philip left Rebellion, even so he kept in touch with people from inside and everything went on, but those contacts also left Rebellion and finally we only had an email to talk to them directly, they never answered us, so after almost a year of waiting, we were in the starting box and we decided to resign.
We never got no as answer, quite the opposite, but it's a matter that doesn't interest them at all and for that very reason I hope we don't have any problems.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 12:24, 02 October 19
Did I miss something? Where is it mentioned it's not licensed?


Oops yes, I missed a whole page of posts. Nevermind.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Token on 12:46, 02 October 19
What a great achievement, game play like the original, graphics and music outstanding. Smooth as hell!  8) The game will occupy all the CPC's now that summer is over.Thank you! YES :-*
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 13:21, 02 October 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 12:24, 02 October 19
Did I miss something? Where is it mentioned it's not licensed?


Oops yes, I missed a whole page of posts. Nevermind.


What's that you say? The licence is in the post? Oh well that's ok then    :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zeropolis79 on 13:36, 02 October 19
Quote from: Rhino on 11:30, 02 October 19
Thanks to all, fellas!
I hope you have fun and make good scores!
Typically, I'm at my old man's for his birthday and my 6128 Plus (with Gotek) is 100 miles away so I'm trying to use WinAPE to try it out.. But what I've seen so far, I really like.
Many thanks for all the hard work.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 13:40, 02 October 19
I'm not sure what to be the most exited about tonight, the delivery of wine or having a crack at pinball.
Hmmm... download game, open wine, play game till wine runs out!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 15:08, 02 October 19
Will try it this evening. Probably. If I manage to convince my family that it's really necessary to spend the rest of the day in the "hobby room"...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GOB on 17:10, 02 October 19
We have now the best 8bit pinball. Great !!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 17:33, 02 October 19
Amazing, congrats!! Have to play it tonight  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Xifos on 18:00, 02 October 19
I scored 5 millions at nightmare ! ;)


Perfect.

EDIT : i scored 20 millions at steel wheel !
:P
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Schneckenwerk on 18:53, 02 October 19

8) YEAH! 8)




ENDLICH PINBALL DREAMS!
SO GUT!


This version is PERFECT!




Thank you so much, BATMAN GROUP! 


Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 20:27, 02 October 19
Quote from: Xifos on 18:00, 02 October 19
I scored 5 millions at nightmare ! ;)


Perfect.

EDIT : i scored 20 millions at steel wheel !
:P

Far away from 20.000.000. Not ready for a highscore compo...

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 22:07, 02 October 19
Great to see the release eventually! Well done!  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: rzookol on 22:15, 02 October 19
Hi, thanks for the release.I have one question. Is the Plus version somewhat included or this release contains only normal version?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Maniac on 22:37, 02 October 19

Simply stunning!! Even though I played the demo to death the full version just stirs up so many memories of the Amiga version that I can't quite believe I'm playing it on my 6128 Plus! As with that version Beat Box is my favourite table because I seem to be able to score better on it!


Special thanks for supporting an M4 version of the disk image! Even though I have a HxC floppy emulator being able to transfer to the M4 and start from the PC is a major boon! And loading is so fast!


Love it!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Syncmaster319 on 23:21, 02 October 19
So thankful for the M4 support.  The game is a work of art and BG should be very proud.

You have done right by the original.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 09:01, 03 October 19
Wow! It's incredible how well it plays on a real machine!


Super smooth and responsive. A true delight!


I managed 66314731 on the Nightmare table  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 10:04, 03 October 19
I spent some time yesterday evening hopping between the Amiga and the CPC versions.... It's very impressive indeed.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Xifos on 10:07, 03 October 19
Quote from: robcfg on 09:01, 03 October 19
I managed 66314731 on the Nightmare table  :D
Ok i lost.
But you should have seen me 25 years ago on pinball fantasies ! :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:53, 03 October 19
Quote from: robcfg on 09:01, 03 October 19I managed 66314731 on the Nightmare table  :D
Anybody up reach 100 million?  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:55, 03 October 19
Quote from: rzookol on 22:15, 02 October 19
Hi, thanks for the release.I have one question. Is the Plus version somewhat included or this release contains only normal version?
We haven't made a special version for the plus, sorry.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 14:56, 03 October 19
Need time to setup my 6128, I'll go for highscore then  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Loki on 23:31, 03 October 19
Amazingly (for me) I've hit the 100 million mark - 144,971,756! So kinda had to share this, athough if you get the super jackpot it's not too difficult to score highly on Nightmare. Still.....


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48839296306_e8db198681_o.jpg)




Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: grouik1er on 09:32, 04 October 19
For those who research the soundtrack :
https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc-full-soundtrack (https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc-full-soundtrack)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 12:23, 04 October 19
Quote from: Loki on 23:31, 03 October 19
Amazingly (for me) I've hit the 100 million mark - 144,971,756! So kinda had to share this, athough if you get the super jackpot it's not too difficult to score highly on Nightmare. Still.....

Wow, so Loki has the world record?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 12:38, 04 October 19
Quote from: Rhino on 14:55, 03 October 19
We haven't made a special version for the plus, sorry.
Kind of you already unlocked the Plus features for the CPC already. Smooth scrolling, smooth sprites. Nice sound, great colors. Maybe a Plus version would only add few new features. If this game runs on a Plus, probably lot's of people would say "Look, it only works with the Plus", but it's for CPC.  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 18:12, 04 October 19
It's a real nightmare!

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Targhan on 19:19, 04 October 19
Congratulations for this game! It's a masterpiece. Just played in on a real CPC, the gameplay is flawless. The only problem is... my lack of skill for this kind of game :).
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 07:38, 05 October 19
SOME TIPS for Pro-Gamers and High-Score Hunters:
Spoiler: ShowHide

- Try to aim for the EXTRA BALL and HOLD BONUS features on each of the tables first, if possible. This will keep your features and bonuses if you accidentally drop a ball! Some tables can hold multiple EXTRA BALLS and so making hitting jackpots a little easier (or, at least, less stressful) and can net some fantastically-high bonuses!

- GUTTER SAVES and PIN SAVES are a lot easier on this version than on the original. For example, GUTTER SAVES generally require only one TILT in comparison to the two (usually) required to save the ball from dropping down the sides on Amiga.

- Due to the flippers being slightly closer together, PIN SAVES are easier on this version. You just have to ignore the human instinct to use the flippers when the ball shoots down the middle of the table to save it. NOTE: Due to additional randomness to the ball physics, this is not consistant and will be the majority cause of ball drops for pro players.

- The MEGA-JACKPOT (50M) in NIGHTMARE table has been made a little harder to hit on CPC. But, with some quick ball manipulation, you can get the ball to the RIGHT FLIPPER and shoot it back up to the BALL TRAP. 500M+ is totally achievable on this table with some practice as each MEGA-JACKPOT will net around 65M-70M when you include the HOLD BALL jackpots you need to hit first!

- RAMP BONUSES will net you a lot of points, too, as with expert timing can be hit multiple times! NOTE: Some of them have extra randomness added to their ball-release code; for example, the "shuttle" BALL TRAP in IGNITION table releases the ball to land differently on the flipper. This is because it was possible to hit the BALL TRAP infinitely and so wrap the score (ie get such a high score that it wraps around to 0!)

- Also, on RAMPS: The STEEL WHEEL ramp is rather difficult to hit correctly. This, from memory, is due to it being so easy to hit during development that you could wrap the score with it alone. On a personal note, STEEL WHEEL has some really nice features and jackpots that exploiting the RAMP BONUS spoiled the table! Also, the music (despite being my least favourite on Amiga) transferred to Amstrad the best and easiest!


There are other little things that help scores... but... I think most people would like to find those out for themselves!


@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174); is there going to be an online leaderboard for M4 owners? It would be great to see Amstrad players battling for top spot! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:23, 05 October 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 07:38, 05 October 19
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174); is there going to be an online leaderboard for M4 owners? It would be great to see Amstrad players battling for top spot! ^_^
We were thinking about doing it, but possible hacking and the loss of records could upset people, so in the end we did not.

Btw, there's already a longplay video showing a lot of things, what do you think about the skill of that guy?

https://youtu.be/yl_MSCpGC0M
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 15:29, 05 October 19
Most of these longplays are TAS.
Savestates or low framerate is used, maybe 5fps.


Nothing with the specific uploader, most of them are mentioning that in the description.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 20:58, 05 October 19
Well the Batman Group must be really pleased that this game is now being extensively tested by the community for bugs and smoothness of gameplay.No problems here, exept my rubbish scores!Usually I stream some music whilst gaming, but this one does that for you too.
Also I notice 8 player game, good for when the gang are round.
This must be an AA rave for sure!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 00:12, 06 October 19
Quote from: zeropolis79 on 13:36, 02 October 19
Typically, I'm at my old man's for his birthday and my 6128 Plus (with Gotek) is 100 miles away so I'm trying to use WinAPE to try it out.. But what I've seen so far, I really like.

I'm just back from a 2-week holiday with no Internet access, so I missed the big event - but I'll definitely be playing it on my CPC today! :D I'm certain I will not be disappointed!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 13:58, 06 October 19
https://youtu.be/faDRc7R7a10
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lazy Dude on 21:43, 06 October 19
As I have never used an Amiga it's a bit of an eye opener to see how the Amstrads colours look stronger.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: pelrun on 09:56, 07 October 19
The Amiga's got a 4096-colour palette to choose from, so there's no need for them to go all-or-nothing on saturation. The CPC, on the other hand...  :P
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 12:44, 07 October 19
Quote from: pelrun on 09:56, 07 October 19
The Amiga's got a 4096-colour palette to choose from, so there's no need for them to go all-or-nothing on saturation. The CPC, on the other hand...  :P


but later on I discovered the Sega Master system and Sega Dreamcast. They used  strong clear colour, just like my Amstrad. The Master system has a palette of 64 colours and the Dreamcast has a palette of 16.7 million colours. I think the strong colours seen in many Sega games is by choice.   8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 21:12, 07 October 19
That kind of color choice is very typical in many Megadrive games too, yep. Sonic series is a great example, but there are many many others :).
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 23:20, 07 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 10:25, 18 September 16
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?


Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.


Look at this idiot who has to eat his words!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 00:02, 08 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 23:20, 07 October 19

Look at this idiot who has to eat his words!


A man who admits something is a true man not an idiot.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 05:04, 08 October 19
Never doubt Batman.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 08:38, 08 October 19
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 21:12, 07 October 19That kind of color choice is very typical in many Megadrive games too, yep. Sonic series is a great example, but there are many many others :) .
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth. It is more a no choice than a choice, on Megadrive too (8 red, 8 green, 8 blue) because it was limited to 512 instead of 4096 shades of colours to save the internal CRAM and embed the SMS retro-compatibility (display and sound) instead. >:(
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 09:06, 08 October 19
Quote from: TotO on 08:38, 08 October 19
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth. It is more a no choice than a choice, on Megadrive too (8 red, 8 green, 8 blue) because it was limited to 512 instead of 4096 shades of colours to save the internal CRAM and embed the SMS retro-compatibility (display and sound) instead. >:(


MD2 had a 12bit palette and guess what, no one utilized it  ;D
Compatibility issues would be devastating for old users.
And as far as I remember by reading a magazine, it also had an extra chip.
Dunno if this was just a rumor and can't remember what it could do.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 10:04, 08 October 19
Quote from: VincentGR on 09:06, 08 October 19MD2 had a 12bit palette and guess what, no one utilized it  ;D
I doubt about that. Only 9bit palette too, sadly.

Quote from: VincentGR on 09:06, 08 October 19Compatibility issues would be devastating for old users.And as far as I remember by reading a magazine, it also had an extra chip. Dunno if this was just a rumor and can't remember what it could do.
9bit on MD are ---- -bbb -ggg -rrr and a compatible 12bit is ---- bbbb gggg rrrr so no compatibility problems for old games I think.
The new MD2 chip is to embed more circuits into one to save money and design. No extra... (except the audio DAC resolution)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ASiC on 11:05, 08 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 23:20, 07 October 19

Look at this idiot who has to eat his words!
You must do a public apology video on your channel, Bill Clinton style  :P :P
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 11:35, 08 October 19
Quote from: TotO on 08:38, 08 October 19
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth. It is more a no choice than a choice, on Megadrive too (8 red, 8 green, 8 blue) because it was limited to 512 instead of 4096 shades of colours to save the internal CRAM and embed the SMS retro-compatibility (display and sound) instead. >:(



Yeaaaah to the flashy colours!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Meeeehhh to the plus colours and shades in brown and grey.    :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Thats how I feel. Do anyone agree?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 11:37, 08 October 19
Quote from: ivarf on 11:35, 08 October 19

Yeaaaah to the flashy colours!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Meeeehhh to the plus colours and shades in brown and grey.    :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Thats how I feel. Do anyone agree?
We are not speaking about the same thing.  :-\ ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 11:46, 08 October 19
Quote from: TotO on 11:37, 08 October 19
We are not speaking about the same thing.  :-\ ;)


Maybe, but I am thankful that most plus games games still uses the strong saturated Sega/Amstrad colours.


On another note, it's so great to see that this game was released. I still feel an urge or even a need for supporting Rhino/Batman Group by Paetron...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 21:05, 08 October 19
I'd like to ask @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) about the BG logo animation at the beginning, as I'm mesmerized by how fluent it is.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 21:24, 08 October 19
Quote from: robcfg on 21:05, 08 October 19
I'd like to ask @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) about the BG logo animation at the beginning, as I'm mesmerized by how fluent it is.


Two friends keep asking me this since it was released.
I told them that this is pure sorcery...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 23:17, 08 October 19
Quote from: VincentGR on 21:24, 08 October 19

Two friends keep asking me this since it was released.
I told them that this is pure sorcery...
It reminds me a little of the spinning Batman logo from the Batman Forever demo, only that one didn't scale its size on the fly. I guess a similar technique is used?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 00:54, 09 October 19
Quote from: ASiC on 11:05, 08 October 19
You must do a public apology video on your channel, Bill Clinton style  :P :P


Thursday night!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 00:56, 09 October 19
Quote from: TotO on 08:38, 08 October 19
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth.


Important to note that when played on a CRT the colours are far less garish as the case with all CPC games. And the game makes the point at least twice that original hardware is needed. Which presumably also means a CRT as well.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 05:50, 09 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 00:56, 09 October 19
Important to note that when played on a CRT the colours are far less garish as the case with all CPC games. And the game makes the point at least twice that original hardware is needed. Which presumably also means a CRT as well.

Or at least make sure you get all 50 fps. In my experience a plain scart cable doesn't do this on a LED screen for some reason, though people tells me it should, I'm just not seeing it.
But if you use a Framemeister or alike, to make sure all 50 fps are shown in sync with the display, then that'll be good too I think.

EDIT: Though come to think of it, the Framemeister probably won't work with the screenmode used. I'll do a test when I find time.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: roudoudou on 07:16, 09 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 00:56, 09 October 19

Important to note that when played on a CRT the colours are far less garish as the case with all CPC games. And the game makes the point at least twice that original hardware is needed. Which presumably also means a CRT as well.
My monitors are modern CRT TV so the colors are still flashy with a good contrast (and i like it  ;D )
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 10:38, 09 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 00:54, 09 October 19

Thursday night!


I hope you have a Amstrad CPC colour monitor there too. I am unsure how your screen grabbing gear will handle Pinball Dreams. I hope it will look great. As always, I am looking forward to your next show
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 10:46, 09 October 19
naaah just a camera at 50fps and direct to monitor, this is the way for this specific masterpiece  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 15:12, 09 October 19
Quote from: mr_lou on 05:50, 09 October 19
Or at least make sure you get all 50 fps. In my experience a plain scart cable doesn't do this on a LED screen for some reason, though people tells me it should, I'm just not seeing it.


Captured at 50fps, I have one frame of CPC animation for every frame captured. So as far as that goes I'm good.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 15:54, 09 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 15:12, 09 October 19Captured at 50fps, I have one frame of CPC animation for every frame captured. So as far as that goes I'm good.

Then you just gotta make sure you watch said 50 fps video on a 50hz (compatible) screen rather than the usual 60hz PC monitor.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 17:57, 09 October 19
Finally today I setup permanently my CPC.
Well if I know one game in my life, then this is it.


Colours are very very similar to the Amiga if they are both on a CRT TV, don't let emulators fool you.
BG fixed a cute bug that was on the Amiga.
When you hold down arrow and let it go before the ball touched the spring, the ball was still ejected.
There is no such thing on the CPC.
I see minor differences that are not related to the main gameplay core like for instance when the ball sits on that triangle bumper reacts better on the CPC.


Also Rhino constructed a Blitter in software if you know what I mean  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:38, 09 October 19
Quote from: VincentGR on 00:02, 08 October 19

A man who admits something is a true man not an idiot.
Just to add to what VincentGR said that I have to admit that there were times when I also had doubts about the feasibility of the project, so I think your reaction was natural and sincere, which is something to be thankful for :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 22:43, 09 October 19
Quote from: robcfg on 21:05, 08 October 19
I'd like to ask @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) about the BG logo animation at the beginning, as I'm mesmerized by how fluent it is.
You could say it's our old CRTC running some 3D CRTC-FX hehe  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 08:33, 10 October 19
There you go on the real beast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 20:25, 10 October 19

Just released this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 11:29, 12 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 20:25, 10 October 19
Just released this.

I'd love to know what your rationale is for stating that the CPC has no hardware scrolling (fast forward to 3:31 in the video). ::)

EDIT: Immediately after posting this, I noticed the video response below from @chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) on YouTube. I am not convinced by his arguments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFG-u4DyhL4
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 13:03, 12 October 19
Quote from: Nich on 11:29, 12 October 19
I'd love to know what your rationale is for stating that the CPC has no hardware scrolling (fast forward to 3:31 in the video). ::)

EDIT: Immediately after posting this, I noticed the video response below from @chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) on YouTube. I am not convinced by his arguments.



If the CPC has hardware scrolling as most general users would understand it, why would Amstrad bother to build hardware scrolling as general users would understand it into the Plus?


Nobody on a C64 ever had to write their own scrolling routine did they? While we know there is LIMITED ability to do certain things, nobody else actually cares because all they see is jerky scrolling, games that scroll 8 pixels at a time or that effect where everything pauses while the screen scrolls smoothly at 50fps as you see in Roland In The Caves, Rig Attack, etc.


I know I'll be doubled down on, but I don't actually care. All I'm concerned with is presenting Pinball Dreams as the best possible game doing marvellous things and by very talented coders on a platform that should not be able to do this stuff if you followed the rulebook. If people want a CPC superuser echo chamber, my channel isn't it. You have to talk to a wider audience in terms they understand.

As regards Pinball Dreams, why I am trying to say is "The laws of aerodynamics say the bumblebee cannot fly, but it can."

That's my last word on the matter.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 13:18, 12 October 19
Hi @chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) !


I don´t understand what your rant's about, but for me, the CPC clearly has hardware scrolling, as the CRTC chip does hardware scrolling.


Limited, yes. Not so easy to use, yes. But definitely there. MSX1 has also jerky character scrolling. And I bet that most C64 users didn't know or care about the hardware scroll capabilities as most just used to play with it and not to code complex stuff. And the C64 and MSX are know also for the wild hacks they do.


Also, all hardware scrolls come with tradeoffs. In that sense the CPC is not different.


I get that the hardware scroll capabilities where not in the mind of the CPC designers, but again, the CRTC allows for it.


I'd like to point out that the problem of different revisions of chips is not Amstrad exclusive. Atari had several revisions of the CTIA and GTIA chips on the same computer models, so programmers had to check for them too.


On the PCW side of things, ironically, the CPC has a more text-oriented display as the PCW. On the CPC, the video memory is organized in character block rows, while on the PCW it is linear bitmapped, so actually it's easier to write a game on the PCW. Not to mention the roller ram which in conjunction with the massive amount of memory, allows for nice scrolls. As with the CPC, most probably this is an unintended consequence of the design.


Finally, on why this wonderful developments where not possible at the time, there are several factors. One is the commercial release schedule. Come on! Two weeks to port R-Type? That gives time for nothing. Take away that pressure and you see what could have been done.

Another one is documentation access. Now you only have to type 6845 Datasheet on Google to get it, while I don't know how I would have obtained that back in the days.

I cannot see the intensive use of the CRTC as a hack. People know the chip much more in detail than in the 80´s and take advantage of what can do.


There's no magic to it, only hard work, dedication and inspiration.


Edit:
QuoteAs regards Pinball Dreams, why I am trying to say is "The laws of aerodynamics say the bumblebee cannot fly, but it can."
Turns out, the Bumblebee is not breaking any physics law, it's just people didn't understand what was happening there...


Edit 2:
One last thing. It's impossible to fill the whole screen using software, because of the size of the video memory and the speed of execution. Without hardware scrolling Pinball Dreams would not work. That is the demonstration that the CPC has indeed hardware scrolling. It's not Amiga/Megadrive hardware scroll, but it is definitely hardware scroll.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 14:03, 12 October 19
Quote from: VincentGR on 08:33, 10 October 19
There you go on the real beast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U)


Amazing how much better it looks on a real Amstrad CRT. Thank you!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 17:52, 12 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 13:03, 12 October 19Nobody on a C64 ever had to write their own scrolling routine did they?
Sorry Chinny, they did write their own routines and indeed still do because the C64's hardware scrolling isn't really what you think it is... there are "undocumented features" in the VIC-II discovered by demo coders which can be (ab)used to scroll the screen in a hurry but they're not commonly used in games - Mayhem In Monsterland or the Fred's Back series are relatively rare examples of VSP and AGSP scrolling respectively - and the two hardware scroll registers only move the playfield a distance of eight pixels before the programmer's code has to get involved to shunt memory about.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: villain on 17:59, 12 October 19
If I understood this correctly, the BG had more than 8.000 downloads of PD until now.  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: andycadley on 22:37, 12 October 19
Hardware scrolling on most platforms was usually limited in some fashion, even the NES struggled if you were trying to scroll in multiple directions (ever wondered why some NES games have garbage down the side of the screen - it's a limitation of how the scrolling hardware worked).


However, most people's definition of hardware scrolling at the time meant something that would allow for smooth pixel based scrolling. In that regard the CPC really doesn't qualify, it's display was more oriented around scrolling a screen full of text - which it can do incredibly well. It's not really until the Plus models augmented that with pixel offset scrolling (which combined with the existing function allowed for true fully hardware scrolling) that the CPC range gained something that would meet that more common definition.


I was quite surprised by how limited the C64 hardware assistance was. There was pixel shifting and you could move the display in RAM to help, but the colour memory is fixed and takes more than a frame for the CPU to shift that much data. It's actually interesting quite how many tricks were used to get around it. It's also why a lot of C64 shooters favour four colour backgrounds, it means you can avoid trying to scroll the colour RAM at all.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 23:32, 12 October 19
Quote from: andycadley on 22:37, 12 October 19
However, most people's definition of hardware scrolling at the time meant something that would allow for smooth pixel based scrolling. In that regard the CPC really doesn't qualify, it's display was more oriented around scrolling a screen full of text - which it can do incredibly well.

Isn't it fair to say the vertical scrolling used for Mission Genocide or Warhawk (or Pinball Dreams for that matter...!) is pixel accurate though...?

Quote from: andycadley on 22:37, 12 October 19
I was quite surprised by how limited the C64 hardware assistance was. There was pixel shifting and you could move the display in RAM to help, but the colour memory is fixed and takes more than a frame for the CPU to shift that much data.

That last bit isn't quite right, there's enough horsepower to shift over 1K per frame so more than enough for the colour RAM if the screen has been handled previously... but some of that processing grind tends to cordoned off for sprite multiplexing in busier games. Have a look at the Shoot 'Em Up Construction Kit though, that's doing colour-per-tile (so not quite as heavy a load as colour-per-character would be) and runs full screen with colour scrolling alongside multiplexed sprites.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: andycadley on 09:25, 13 October 19
Quote from: TMR on 23:32, 12 October 19
Isn't it fair to say the vertical scrolling used for Mission Genocide or Warhawk (or Pinball Dreams for that matter...!) is pixel accurate though...?
By that point you're well into the realm of CRTC tricks though. It's messing with display timings to physically shift the position of the display on screen. Not really using intended functionality.

[q
uote author=TMR link=topic=12369.msg179106#msg179106 date=1570919555]
That last bit isn't quite right, there's enough horsepower to shift over 1K per frame so more than enough for the colour RAM if the screen has been handled previously... but some of that processing grind tends to cordoned off for sprite multiplexing in busier games. Have a look at the Shoot 'Em Up Construction Kit though, that's doing colour-per-tile (so not quite as heavy a load as colour-per-character would be) and runs full screen with colour scrolling alongside multiplexed sprites.


I stand corrected, I'm going off the memory of how it was described to me.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 10:38, 13 October 19
Quote from: andycadley on 09:25, 13 October 19
By that point you're well into the realm of CRTC tricks though. It's messing with display timings to physically shift the position of the display on screen. Not really using intended functionality.
I still hold that hardware scrolling is literally just scrolling being primarily handled by the hardware in some way, otherwise we get into a slightly silly situation where most of the machines previously declared as having "hardware scrolling" actually don't just because the term was ambiguous; the C64 and 264 series have hardware fine scrolling (there are tricks to do more in both cases but they're not officially documented as such or intended functionality) and the BBC Micro or Amstrad CPC have hardware coarse scrolling which further unintended register (ab)use or clever buffering can smooth up.
The only 8-bit computers I can think of right now with both coarse and fine hardware scrolling "out of the box" are the CPC Plus, the Commodore 128's 80 column display and the Atari 8-bit with only one predating the CPC but, since Atari's official documentation didn't come out until around two years after the machine itself, there's a potential question mark there as to if self modifying code overwriting the display lists' LMS commands counts as intended functionality or an unintended side effect that was later adopted. And yes, I'm playing Devil's advocaat there, but hopefully you see the point I'm rather clumsily making?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 11:01, 13 October 19
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 20:25, 10 October 19
Just released this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4)
Thank you very much for the great review! I really appreciate all the love and technical editing work you put into your videos.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 11:04, 13 October 19
Quote from: villain on 17:59, 12 October 19
If I understood this correctly, the BG had more than 8.000 downloads of PD until now.  :o :o :o
Yes, over 8000 downloads in the first 10 days (only counting the ones downloaded from our server). We really didn't expect that much!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: andycadley on 14:49, 13 October 19
Quote from: TMR on 10:38, 13 October 19
I still hold that hardware scrolling is literally just scrolling being primarily handled by the hardware in some way, otherwise we get into a slightly silly situation where most of the machines previously declared as having "hardware scrolling" actually don't just because the term was ambiguous; the C64 and 264 series have hardware fine scrolling (there are tricks to do more in both cases but they're not officially documented as such or intended functionality) and the BBC Micro or Amstrad CPC have hardware coarse scrolling which further unintended register (ab)use or clever buffering can smooth up.
The only 8-bit computers I can think of right now with both coarse and fine hardware scrolling "out of the box" are the CPC Plus, the Commodore 128's 80 column display and the Atari 8-bit with only one predating the CPC but, since Atari's official documentation didn't come out until around two years after the machine itself, there's a potential question mark there as to if self modifying code overwriting the display lists' LMS commands counts as intended functionality or an unintended side effect that was later adopted. And yes, I'm playing Devil's advocaat there, but hopefully you see the point I'm rather clumsily making?
Oh I do and entirely agree with what you're saying. But I can see Chinny's point that, in laymans terms at least, the C64 and Amiga had "hardware scrolling" - as in hardware dedicated to making the kinds of smooth scrolling seen in games possible to some degree, wheras computers like the CPC didn't, even if the hardware they did have was flexible enough that it could be pushed into doing things that weren't quite as intended. Which argument makes most sense to people is one of semantics and how strictly accurate you want to be.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 14:57, 13 October 19
Quote from: andycadley on 14:49, 13 October 19
Oh I do and entirely agree with what you're saying. But I can see Chinny's point that, in laymans terms at least, the C64 and Amiga had "hardware scrolling" - as in hardware dedicated to making the kinds of smooth scrolling seen in games possible to some degree, wheras computers like the CPC didn't, even if the hardware they did have was flexible enough that it could be pushed into doing things that weren't quite as intended. Which argument makes most sense to people is one of semantics and how strictly accurate you want to be.


To make it simple:
The ZX Spectrum doesn't have hardware scrolling
The Amstrad CPC has rough hardware scrolling but with clever programming it can do fine hardware scrolling too
The C64 has fine hardware scrolling
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 15:52, 13 October 19
Quote from: andycadley on 14:49, 13 October 19
Oh I do and entirely agree with what you're saying. But I can see Chinny's point that, in laymans terms at least, the C64 and Amiga had "hardware scrolling" - as in hardware dedicated to making the kinds of smooth scrolling seen in games possible to some degree, wheras computers like the CPC didn't
It's not that I don't get that point, just that I find it uncomfortable to let the layman's version of the term slide without challenging it. If nothing else Chinny's understanding of what the C64 is doing seems to be off if he thinks nobody writes scroll routines, that seriously undersells what games like Turrican 2 are doing.

Quote from: ivarf on 14:57, 13 October 19To make it simple:
The ZX Spectrum doesn't have hardware scrolling
The Amstrad CPC has rough hardware scrolling but with clever programming it can do fine hardware scrolling too
The C64 has fine hardware scrolling
Add a similar caveat to the C64 about it being able to do coarse scrolling with clever programming - that's what Mayhem In Monsterland or the C64 preview of PD are doing - and bingo...

This thread derailing is starting to make me feel uncomfortable, so sorry to Rhino and BG Games for sticking my oar in like this, sorry to Chinny because I like you and love what you do and for anyone else affected by the points raised in my posts, a helpline is available... or just tell me to bog off, either or. =-)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 16:19, 13 October 19
Syx point me to the Amstrad Basic itself, because it uses the hardware scroll capabilities when displacing the screen while listing a program.


But as I said before, the math is there. The CPC cannot do a scroll like Pinball Dreams without hardware assistance, and that is not witchcraft, it's hardware scrolling.



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 11:17, 14 October 19
Quote from: TMR on 15:52, 13 October 19
It's not that I don't get that point, just that I find it uncomfortable to let the layman's version of the term slide without challenging it. If nothing else Chinny's understanding of what the C64 is doing seems to be off if he thinks nobody writes scroll routines, that seriously undersells what games like Turrican 2 are doing.
Add a similar caveat to the C64 about it being able to do coarse scrolling with clever programming - that's what Mayhem In Monsterland or the C64 preview of PD are doing - and bingo...

This thread derailing is starting to make me feel uncomfortable, so sorry to Rhino and BG Games for sticking my oar in like this, sorry to Chinny because I like you and love what you do and for anyone else affected by the points raised in my posts, a helpline is available... or just tell me to bog off, either or. =-)
There is nothing to be sorry about, debates are good and I think the knowledge you bring about the C64 is very interesting.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lone on 14:17, 14 October 19
Hello


Is it planned to release a cartridge version ?


That's mainly because I no longer use the floppy on my 6128+ (in fact, it's not even working), but the famous C4CPC.


And also because I would like to test it on my Raspberry pi 6128+ emulator....


Anyway, great work, it's awesome !
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 17:06, 14 October 19
Quote from: Lone on 14:17, 14 October 19
Hello


Is it planned to release a cartridge version ?


That's mainly because I no longer use the floppy on my 6128+ (in fact, it's not even working), but the famous C4CPC.


And also because I would like to test it on my Raspberry pi 6128+ emulator....


Anyway, great work, it's awesome !


You have a CPC Plus Cartridge Port on your Raspberry PI Emulator??  ???
Can you share details please?



Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Lone on 19:18, 14 October 19
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 17:06, 14 October 19

You have a CPC Plus Cartridge Port on your Raspberry PI Emulator??  ???
Can you share details please?


Nothing special : My Raspberry pi emulator load games from CPR (as I have no keyboard right now). So, Pinball dream on a CPR file would be great !

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:19, 14 October 19
And you cannot just autoload a DSK file?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SyX on 21:13, 14 October 19


First, this thread should be a celebration of this amazing game by Batman Group :)

Quote from: robcfg on 16:19, 13 October 19
Syx point me to the Amstrad Basic itself, because it uses the hardware scroll capabilities when displacing the screen while listing a program.


But as I said before, the math is there. The CPC cannot do a scroll like Pinball Dreams without hardware assistance, and that is not witchcraft, it's hardware scrolling.


... but, it is impossible not jump to this discussion about what is or not an hardware scroll. I made an small article about this matter in my blog (https://syx.neocities.org/posts/scroll_hardware.html), for trying not pollute more this thread ;)


In conclusion, Pinball Dreams for CPC is a masterpiece in every way.

The absolutely best 8 bit pinball game... if only PD was not an original Amiga game, i would say that is the best 16 bits pinball game too, hehehe.

For me, this is one of the best CPC games ever, making PD the state of the art of CPC gaming, every new CPC game should be compared to it.

And the best of it, it's that the only way of enjoying this game is over the real machine attached to a CRT monitor. You don't know how great is this game after you have seen how smooth and fast is everything over the real machine.

I have nothing more to say, this game speaks higher :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: sigh on 21:38, 14 October 19
An excellent product.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 14:21, 15 October 19
I'm still loving Pinball Dreams but I'm greedy and always want more. Would Pinball Fantasies be out of the question in the future? I know the tables are taller so perhaps memory might be an issue and there are additional flippers further up the tables at different angles which I guess may cause some difficulties....
Still, is it technically feasible?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 15:35, 15 October 19
Quote from: Skunkfish on 14:21, 15 October 19
I'm still loving Pinball Dreams but I'm greedy and always want more.

You gotta give some to get some.  ;)
How about a 3rd issue of that fanzine?  :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 22:24, 15 October 19
Quote from: Rhino on 11:17, 14 October 19
There is nothing to be sorry about, debates are good and I think the knowledge you bring about the C64 is very interesting.

Ta for that, I feel a lot better. =-)

As far as the "is it hardware scrolling" question goes, I found a Motorola data sheet for the MC6845 and it refers to one of the chip's features being "hardware scroll (paging by line or by character)" on the first page. That's reiterated later on under the heading "hardware scrolling" where it talks about using R12/R13 to change the screen's start address.

So if Motorola are calling it "hardware scrolling"...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 10:45, 16 October 19
Yeah, but it's coarse hardware scrolling, by character. Fine hardware scrolling of course would not be handled by the 6845, because ultimately it's just an address generator and video timing circuit.


A fine intra-character horizontal scroll/delay (+ additional border-blanking support) would have had to be implemented in the video gate array. Which would have required a more capable gate array, which means more cost, and we know what Mr Sugar's opinion on costs were. We only got 27 colours because of a reliable tri-state output, the rumoured original planned 64 colours (presumably via external resistor ladder) wasn't possible due to pin count.


Many 8-bit smooth hardware scrolls are a combination of coarse and fine scrolling.


Might be a nice project for someone to take the existing GAL logic for CPC video output and copy it to a more capable PAL and add fine scrolling. Academic, of course, but could be fun.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 11:27, 16 October 19
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 10:45, 16 October 19
A fine intra-character horizontal scroll/delay (+ additional border-blanking support) would have had to be implemented in the video gate array. Which would have required a more capable gate array, which means more cost, and we know what Mr Sugar's opinion on costs were.
I rather think it has to with time and the intended use of the machine. It's not like Amstrad expected to sell millions of these machines.

Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 10:45, 16 October 19Many 8-bit smooth hardware scrolls are a combination of coarse and fine scrolling.
Consoles maybe, but computers? The Amstrad plus computerrs have both. Any more 8 bit computers?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 15:55, 16 October 19
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 10:45, 16 October 19Yeah, but it's coarse hardware scrolling, by character.
That's the thing, just using the term "hardware scrolling" doesn't specify if it's coarse, fine or a combination of the two so it can be either or both.

Quote from: ivarf on 11:27, 16 October 19Consoles maybe, but computers? The Amstrad plus computerrs have both. Any more 8 bit computers?
After the Plus series I can only think of two more; the Commodore 128's 80 column VDC display (all documented from the C128 PRG) and the Atari 8-bits, although Atari didn't release any official documentation for a couple of years so there's a Devil's advocaat question mark over if self modifying of a display list's LMS commands counts as a deliberate feature in the same way that vertical smooth scrolling on the CPC is up for debate.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 16:15, 16 October 19
MSX, and Enterprise maybe?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TMR on 08:57, 17 October 19
Quote from: robcfg on 16:15, 16 October 19
MSX, and Enterprise maybe?
Not on the original models of MSX no, it doesn't have hardware-powered fine scrolling - a lot of games famously move their scrolling backgrounds a tile at a time - and coarse scrolling is being done by the Z80 too. From what I've read just now, the MSX gained fine vertical scrolling and what looks like coarse scrolling with the MSX2 and it gets the full set with the addition of fine horizontal hardware scrolling in 1988 with the MSX2+ in 1988 so that model and the later Turbo R which has the same video hardware are both a yes.

No idea either way about the Enterprise even after a little digging...?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 09:14, 17 October 19
The Enterprise use a CRTC like on CPC for adressing and a custom chip to display data with modes close to the CPC and Speccy.
It handle a 256 colours palette, but only 8 can be set by the user for "160x200" screen modes, the 8 others have to be chose from an existing set.

Watch the R-Type port in example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1VjO7mUV_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1VjO7mUV_s)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:16, 17 October 19
That last bit is a bit... weird?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Widukind on 11:06, 17 October 19
Excellent work – congratulations to Rhino and his Batman Group!

It's great to see such impressive software coming out for our CPCs, 35 years after we had bought one.


A word please to the hardware-scrolling matter: I'd say that when the hardware does the scrolling, it's called hardware-scrolling; and when your software does the scrolling by shifting bits, it's software-scrolling.
No matter what you have to do with the hardware, since programming hardware chips is always tricky.
Because a CPC's Z80 can't move the full-screen's bytes by software, when you see a (nearly) full-screen which is scrolling smoothly (50fps), it's hardware-scrolling.

After we studied Paul "Spindizzy" Shirley's amazing vertical pixel-wise hardware-scrolling in his game Mission Genocide, we programmed something similar for several parts of our megademo (http://memoryfull.net/prod.php?id=59) in 1989. Clearly we didn't shift any raster bytes by software but used the CPC's video-hardware to do the 50fps vertical scrolling: hence hardware-scrolling. And I suppose it's the same with Pinball-Dreams and similar games or demos. (In contrast to demos, in games the programmers usually need much more work in order to adjust the software-sprites to the hardware-offsets).

But this "software- or hardware-scrolling" controversial is just words. Actions matter more.

So back-on topic: Keep up the good work, Rhino. God bless, and all the best!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 11:18, 17 October 19
https://youtu.be/_wfruXEucUQ

Pinball Dreams Amiga-Falcon-SNES-CPC Opinion of an 11 year old girl
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 11:51, 17 October 19
Oh the SNES...
Smaller area, has to scroll left-right and the lazy physics  :picard:
Atari needs a Falcon  :picard2:
What happened there, they have obsession pinball on the STE.
The blitter routine was a nightmare from what I have red.


Well it is clear now that a Z80 can do the physics just fine  ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:08, 17 October 19
Quote from: Lone on 14:17, 14 October 19
Hello


Is it planned to release a cartridge version ?


That's mainly because I no longer use the floppy on my 6128+ (in fact, it's not even working), but the famous C4CPC.


And also because I would like to test it on my Raspberry pi 6128+ emulator....


Anyway, great work, it's awesome !
Thanks!
Cartridge versions aren't in our plans right now, sorry.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:11, 17 October 19
Quote from: Skunkfish on 14:21, 15 October 19
I'm still loving Pinball Dreams but I'm greedy and always want more. Would Pinball Fantasies be out of the question in the future? I know the tables are taller so perhaps memory might be an issue and there are additional flippers further up the tables at different angles which I guess may cause some difficulties....
Still, is it technically feasible?
I believe Pinball Fantasies would be a good candidate to do it on cartridge so as to be able to include largest boards and the scoreboard animations.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: norecess464 on 15:47, 17 October 19
Quote from: Rhino on 14:11, 17 October 19
Pinball Fantasies ... able to include largest boards
@Rhino By "largest boards", do you have in mind "wider boards" to achieve plain full-screen (cf. R1=48) ? Such improvement would push the envelope even further !
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: robcfg on 16:06, 17 October 19
Still only around 20% of total CPC Power, so plenty of envelope to push...  ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 08:48, 20 October 19
Quality capture from a real Amstrad CRT screen running Pinball Dreams.
It looks lovely, way better than on an emulator. This really is Atari ST quality on the humble Amstrad CPC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U&t (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U&t)

Chinnyvision review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4)

Americans try Pinball Dreams (and the Roland games)
https://youtu.be/m9GX0GjU2co?t=1467 (https://youtu.be/m9GX0GjU2co?t=1467)


11 year old review and comparison of versions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wfruXEucUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wfruXEucUQ)

Amstrad and Amiga version running side by side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDRc7R7a10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDRc7R7a10)

Pinball Dreams live stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi9gTXk38Ic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi9gTXk38Ic)

Green screen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moAFiRBUeu4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moAFiRBUeu4)

Download the game:
https://t.co/nAQuShB8A1 (https://t.co/nAQuShB8A1)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 15:47, 22 October 19
Quote from: norecess on 15:47, 17 October 19
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) By "largest boards", do you have in mind "wider boards" to achieve plain full-screen (cf. R1=48) ? Such improvement would push the envelope even further !
Well, I think it could be 384 pixels wide using almost all the first 64kb for video, but you'd see a very small portion of the table compared to the total and that's not good for gameplay, I think 320 pixels wide as the Amiga original would be more suitable.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: norecess464 on 16:03, 22 October 19
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) Yes, I had in mind the exact width of the Amiga. I always tend to forget that the Amiga does not require "overscan" technique (like the Amstrad CPC) since the image displayed by the 1084S monitor can be physically stretched.
So yes, R1=40 (vs. R1=32 like current version of PD) would be great, to remain close to the original.
But honestly, .. even if I have no doubts you can do it -- I believe you are better now to focus on Vespertino and other promising things you hide to us 8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: 40Crisis on 14:33, 26 October 19
Here are cdt tape files to write pinball dreams for tape to disk.
Strange idea, isn't it ? :doh:   I don't know if it can be useful to somebody but it worked for me on a CPC 6128
tape interface connected to the PC sound card with Wintzx.
I used Pelrun's tool dsk2cdt2disc to generate tape from dsk.
I modified it to had support for 10 sectors by track.
It comes in two flavours depending if you are
using a tape with motor stop control or not.

Be careful, it doesn't warn you before writing to disk.
So insert blank disk before loading tape.

Pinball dreams is an amazing piece of CPC software with perfect gameplay
Congratulations to Batman group.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: siccoyote on 14:51, 13 November 19
Looks great didn't notice this had finally come out, just wish there was a Cart version for the 64k machines.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:16, 17 November 19
https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1196051966859862017

Pinball Dreams CPC reaches 12,000 downloads in the first month!
And to celebrate we have made a very limited physical edition to gift in gratitude to collaborators and friends who supported us during the development.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 15:39, 17 November 19
Those physical copies look awesome! I understand that the game won´t be sold at all, right? These are just gifts for a few ones. I am asking because it would be great to be able to buy them  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 15:47, 17 November 19
Amazing indeed  :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 15:57, 17 November 19
Awesone edition !!! ,  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 17:46, 17 November 19
Double crystal box is the best for CPC games. 8)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 23:16, 17 November 19
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 15:39, 17 November 19
Those physical copies look awesome! I understand that the game won´t be sold at all, right? These are just gifts for a few ones. I am asking because it would be great to be able to buy them  :D
We've reserved some copies for tournaments and draws, so it's still possible to get some one.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:39, 18 November 19
Now I'm so jealous!...

Other than that, 12000? Wow. That's really impressive!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: asertus on 10:26, 18 November 19
Any possibility of getting one "gift" even in exchange for abusive delivery costs?  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 11:01, 18 November 19
Quote from: Rhino on 14:16, 17 November 19
https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1196051966859862017 (https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1196051966859862017)

Pinball Dreams CPC reaches 12,000 downloads in the first month!
And to celebrate we have made a very limited physical edition to gift in gratitude to collaborators and friends who supported us during the development.

Thanks!


I have pressed like, but I would have pressed like a thousand times if I could have bought this... Looks great
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: siccoyote on 12:09, 18 November 19
Quote from: ivarf on 11:01, 18 November 19

I have pressed like, but I would have pressed like a thousand times if I could have bought this... Looks great
I understand the gesture but if you press like 1000 times it undoes your like. Now 1001 times...
But yeah this package looks great, it would have been nice to buy it.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: cngsoft on 15:54, 18 November 19
Pinball Dreams is so stunning and inspiring that it drove me back to improving CPCEC. I went from this...

(http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/IMAGE_2019-11-16_01-19-08.PNG)

...to this...

(http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/IMAGE_2019-11-16_11-22-08.PNG)

...in a night's work! CRTC 1 only, however; CRTC types 0, 2, 3 and 4 will have to keep waiting :-( My most sincere congratulations to the authors for the 12000 downloads (and rising!)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 21:10, 18 November 19
Quote from: siccoyote on 12:09, 18 November 19
I understand the gesture but if you press like 1000 times it undoes your like. Now 1001 times...
But yeah this package looks great, it would have been nice to buy it.
'
stupid is stupid does


You pressed like on my post according to the alert system
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 21:39, 18 November 19
Quote from: Rhino on 23:16, 17 November 19
We've reserved some copies for tournaments and draws, so it's still possible to get some one.
Hahaha, maybe for somebody that is not me!  :laugh: I love Pinbal Dreams like crazy, and videogames in general. However, I have never been a good player, quite the opposite I am afraid. People used to finish Bloodborne at level 90 and I leveled up to 160 to be able to beat it...  :picard2: .
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:40, 21 November 19
Quote from: cngsoft on 15:54, 18 November 19
Pinball Dreams is so stunning and inspiring that it drove me back to improving CPCEC. I went from this...

(http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/IMAGE_2019-11-16_01-19-08.PNG)

...to this...

(http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/IMAGE_2019-11-16_11-22-08.PNG)

...in a night's work! CRTC 1 only, however; CRTC types 0, 2, 3 and 4 will have to keep waiting :-( My most sincere congratulations to the authors for the 12000 downloads (and rising!)
Thanks!
It's great that you've improved the emulator, congratulations!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 21:31, 26 November 19
Pinball Dreams has been reviewed in the latest issue of Retro Gamer (issue 201), and it received a rating of (drum roll)...

Spoiler: ShowHide
96%! :o

Congratulations to @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) and everyone else who contributed to the development of the game! :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 13:55, 27 November 19
Quote from: Nich on 21:31, 26 November 19
Pinball Dreams has been reviewed in the latest issue of Retro Gamer (issue 201), and it received a rating of (drum roll)...

Spoiler: ShowHide
96%! :o

Congratulations to @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) and everyone else who contributed to the development of the game! :D


How much space did they give it?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Nich on 21:07, 27 November 19
Quote from: ivarf on 13:55, 27 November 19

How much space did they give it?

Almost a full page - and there's something else I forgot to mention:

Spoiler: ShowHide
They awarded it a 'Retro Gamer Sizzler'!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 20:27, 28 November 19
https://youtu.be/oAv7acgcbfo
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ervin on 01:25, 29 November 19
Hi folks.

Really been enjoying playing PB on my CPC.
I still can't believe it exists - it's like some kind of sorcery.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there are any videos (or executables) of prototypes.
Or any sort of material which shows the path to getting the game completed.
I imagine the scrolling would have been the first thing worked on, possibly followed by physics, then followed by physics optimisations.
It would be so interesting to see that side of the development.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:01, 29 November 19
Eh, just read the RG review. I feel it was somewhat underwhelming-although the score is very high, it doesn't really mention why it's such an incredible feat...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 11:13, 29 November 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:01, 29 November 19
Eh, just read the RG review. I feel it was somewhat underwhelming-although the score is very high, it doesn't really mention why it's such an incredible feat...

We need our own Amstrad CPC magazine diskmag....Oh wait, we do already have a magazine.... 
*looks at @Skunkfish (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=348) *
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: rexbeng on 16:22, 29 November 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:01, 29 November 19
... it doesn't really mention why it's such an incredible feat...
I have a question, then. Why do you believe it is an incredible feat? I'm not addressing Gryzor in particular; would be interesting to read a few opinions...  :)
rb
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 18:07, 29 November 19
Great physics, smooth animation, big screen, and I'm sure more technical guys can go deeper 🙂
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: tastefulmrship on 19:03, 29 November 19
Quote from: rexbeng on 16:22, 29 November 19
I have a question, then. Why do you believe it is an incredible feat? I'm not addressing Gryzor in particular; would be interesting to read a few opinions...  :)
... because it is, simply, the best game EVER on Amstrad CPC!
Except, perhaps, for the music! ^_^
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: VincentGR on 19:18, 29 November 19
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 19:03, 29 November 19
... because it is, simply, the best game EVER on Amstrad CPC!
Except, perhaps, for the music! ^_^


I saw what you did there  ;D


Anyway, the game is an achievement for the CPC.
We had many ZX ports in the past (like the MSX) and many games that didn't show what this machine could do.
We also had/have the reputation of the worst scrolling 8bit and the slowest one in games.
As I mentioned before in this post, this game except of the scrolling has also great physics for a hardware with an 8bit cpu and no fancy hardware like the atari 8bit line or the brown one.
If you consider now that it looks and feels like the amiga, better than the SNES and that it runs on a Falcon then yes, it is a miracle.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 20:26, 29 November 19
Quote from: VincentGR on 19:18, 29 November 19or the brown one.


😆😆
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: dthrone on 23:40, 29 November 19
Quote from: rexbeng on 16:22, 29 November 19
I have a question, then. Why do you believe it is an incredible feat? I'm not addressing Gryzor in particular; would be interesting to read a few opinions...  :)
rb




First of all, love the game!!



But well, haha, adding to the opinions  :D


The feats are the level of polish achieved on the CPC, and the use of advanced hardware techniques and importantly their associated limitations to produce an extremely playable game rather than just a demo or not very playable game that might as well just be a demo.


What the feats aren't -
the game design, it's a conversion
the physics, it sounds like it's an improvement on the accuracy of the originals, but physics is real world physics, you can only get it accurate or not, and the calcs apart from final display are hardly going to be using 'innovative' hard techniques or something.


I don't think feats across the board have been done just yet, that's probably going to be whatever's next from the Batman Group  :P

Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 23:45, 29 November 19
Some of you have asked how to get a physical copy, well, our friend from Cepeceros Podcast has organized a draw!

https://twitter.com/cepeceros/status/1200501822907179008
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Cwiiis on 15:47, 10 December 19
Really amazed by this - I don't suppose there's a cartridge conversion by any chance? I've only got a GX4000, but I'd love to play it - Would be cool to get + palette/hardware sprite support too, but it looks pretty great unmodified :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 16:43, 30 December 19
Kim Justice finally shows the Amstrad  CPC some justice and Pinball Dreams a cracking review


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxH8mM605Cs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxH8mM605Cs)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 16:58, 30 December 19
So, due to being too busy in daily life, yesterday was the first time I had a proper go with Pinball Dreams.

Absolutely amazing of course. I can't say much that everyone else hasn't said already.

I gotta admit that I never really played Pinball Dreams on the Amiga. I only played a bit of Pinball Fantasies - on my brothers Amiga 500, so that's the one I know the most.
But while I was still hanging onto my CPC464 at the time, I would often end up in.... "debates" with my brother.
He'd go: "Look at this!!! The CPC just can't do something like this!", pointing to the screen with Pinball Fantasies running.
And I'd of course go: "Of course it can! It's just that no one has done it yet! Just wait and see! Some day....!!"

So how nice that this argument has finally been settled now.  ;D

One of my mates who participated in yesterday's retro gaming meet-up, used to play a lot of Pinball Dreams on the Amiga. He ended up playing Pinball Dreams on my CPC quite a lot yesterday too, absolutely astonished that it was really a CPC he was playing on.  :)

It's the best Christmas present I've had in a long time.  ;)   Thanks a lot to the whole team for bringing this awesomeness to the CPC!!!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 20:18, 12 January 20
Another uknown Amstrad coder is interviewed in the latest Retro Gamer
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ivarf on 16:37, 14 January 20
Who? Rhino!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 08:52, 15 January 20
Must find that issue then... Which issue is that?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Captain Past on 13:17, 15 January 20
Load 202
'Star Wars - Knights of The Old Republic' cover story.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 13:42, 15 January 20
Cheers :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:56, 15 January 20
Quote
-In hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently?
- Sure! I would reorganise collision codes to include more variety of materials and I would try to improve the physics, I even think we'd do it for the new cartridge support, which would allow for larger graphics and more accurate collision tables.

Ah damn :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Skunkfish on 15:32, 15 January 20
Looking forward to Pinball Fantasies on cart already!
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 15:32, 15 January 20
I have a question.

As mentioned, I didn't play much Pinball Dreams on the Amiga back in the day, but I did play some Pinball Fantasies.
As far as I remember, when hitting space to tilt, I could do this at least 2 times in a row in Pinball Fantasies without the game tilting.
But in Pinball Dreams on the CPC the game tilts if I hit space twice. This makes it somewhat difficult to "rescue" the ball when it's on its way out.
So is this a flaw in the CPC version or was the Amiga version the same way?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 15:42, 15 January 20
Quote from: mr_lou on 15:32, 15 January 20
As far as I remember, when hitting space to tilt, I could do this at least 2 times in a row in Pinball Fantasies without the game tilting.
But in Pinball Dreams on the CPC the game tilts if I hit space twice. This makes it somewhat difficult to "rescue" the ball when it's on its way out.
So is this a flaw in the CPC version or was the Amiga version the same way?
AFAIR : Pinball Fantasies (Amiga) -> 3 x space = tilt / Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -> 2 x space = tilt
I could check when I´m home AND my A1200 gives me some love (very unstable in the moment)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: SkulleateR on 23:23, 15 January 20
Hmmm, editing the above msg didn't work ... well the A1200 worked long enough to test this, so you're right, I was wrong ...


Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -> 3 x space = tilt ... also Pinball Fanatsies ...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: mr_lou on 06:17, 16 January 20
Notifying @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) in case it's something to correct in the cartridge version.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:27, 27 January 20
The condition on CPC is not to push twice in a row in less than 32 frames (0.64 secs) but unlike the Amiga version, to save the ball from the sides you normally only need to push once on CPC. So, it's a matter of getting the hang of it, most testers reported that it's easier to save the ball on CPC than on Amiga :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Rhino on 14:29, 27 January 20
Btw, we have recently released the printing arts here:
https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1221521143456239617
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:40, 27 January 20
So who is doing a run to put on eBay? :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 00:24, 29 January 20
Oh wow, this is amazing! I actually have a few brand new discs in here and I think that this could be the best reason to open one  :D
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: zhulien on 06:13, 30 January 20
any more physical copies?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:49, 30 January 20
Don't hold your breath :)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Dominoid on 22:34, 01 March 20
Could anybody help me get this working please? I can get as far as the welcome screen but no further https://photos.app.goo.gl/932ebQigNJC69RwGA (https://photos.app.goo.gl/932ebQigNJC69RwGA)
No button on the CPC starts the game and the joystick doesn't either. If I leave it a whiile nothing happens either.This is on a 464 with M4 board and Zaxxon 512kb RAM card. I've tried changing the lowerrom to the 6128 version as well as basic 1.1. I've tried 2 different downloads as well as the 3 inch, 3.5 inch and M4 dsks. It's seeing the extra ram as it gives a "128k only" error of I turn it off. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 13:13, 02 March 20
Quote from: Dominoid on 22:34, 01 March 20
Could anybody help me get this working please? I can get as far as the welcome screen but no further https://photos.app.goo.gl/932ebQigNJC69RwGA (https://photos.app.goo.gl/932ebQigNJC69RwGA)
No button on the CPC starts the game and the joystick doesn't either. If I leave it a whiile nothing happens either.This is on a 464 with M4 board and Zaxxon 512kb RAM card. I've tried changing the lowerrom to the 6128 version as well as basic 1.1. I've tried 2 different downloads as well as the 3 inch, 3.5 inch and M4 dsks. It's seeing the extra ram as it gives a "128k only" error of I turn it off. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

I'm guessing this is at fault. The joystick won't work as it's keyboard only.
Is there an option to turn off certain banks on the expansion, or put it into compatibility mode? Are there any switches on the RAM expansion?

It should work fine on a 464, I've used it with 512k (as part of the DDI-4), so either it's a RAM configuration issue, or the expansion has a fault. It should work just fine from the M4.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: Dominoid on 23:50, 03 March 20
Turns out it just doesn't like being run from the web interface of the M4. I finally worked out that if i run out from the basic prompt rather than using the "run" function in the M4 interface it works fine. I need to stop being lazy.
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GOB on 10:27, 13 April 20
IS anyone has succeeded to transfert game to Real 3" with a cpc ?I'm trying with gothek on drive b with discology but it don't work.Seams difficult to write 10 sector per track...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 12:07, 13 April 20
Quote from: GOB on 10:27, 13 April 20
IS anyone has succeeded to transfert game to Real 3" with a cpc ?I'm trying with gothek on drive b with discology but it don't work.Seams difficult to write 10 sector per track...
The same problem exist with R-Type only on Amstrad Plus, not on CPC. Is-it your case?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GOB on 15:11, 13 April 20
Yes on 6128+. Do you think it's on writing with plus or on read ?
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GUNHED on 09:52, 14 April 20
Quote from: GOB on 15:11, 13 April 20
Yes on 6128+. Do you think it's on writing with plus or on read ?
The Plus drive has an "error" which does happen 1/3 down to 1/7 of the times. The problem it that you can write an sector and immediately after that you tell the FDC to move the head. Sometimes it messes up the track register of the FDC. That means physically the head is on another track than the FDC does assume. Here only the Recalibrate command will help.
Why does this happen with Plus drives? Sometimes the FDC is still busy writing GAP bytes the it already sets its status to "Ready". If you issue an track command "move head to this track" then the FDC tells the floppy to step, but the floppy does not do, because it's still writing some few last gap bytes.

To be precise: It's an issue of the 6128 Plus floppy (reports "Ready" a bit to early), not the FDC765.

I found this behavior when I coded my FDC functions for FutureOS.
However lots of commercial software doesn't support Plus drives, so for example Gauntlet or Discology have serous problems (there is a Plus version of Discology for the Plus of course).
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GOB on 13:03, 16 April 20
Ok thanks, so the only solution is to make a files version of pinball dreams...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: TotO on 13:05, 16 April 20
Quote from: GOB on 13:03, 16 April 20
Ok thanks, so the only solution is to make a files version of pinball dreams...
In this case, better to have a ROM version...
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: GOB on 15:26, 18 April 20
No, i want to put the game on 3" disc ;)
Title: Re: Pinball Dreams, new game from Batman Group!!
Post by: vasilisk on 17:25, 18 April 20
So in a non-plus floppy drive, can PD be copied?
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