Author Topic: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics  (Read 77710 times)

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Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #400 on: 04:02, 21 December 13 »
If you know that it will look weird, then don't wast time to draw it... Chose Mode 0 upper only, or Mode 1 font + splited modes.

Yes your right.

I have sent you a font :)


Great font! I modified the lowercase font by reducing the height from 7 pixels to 5 pixels on some of the letters. This means that all the letters are now the same height. I also turned them all into capitals. So the size of the letters are now 6x5.
Thanks!

With a 50 Hz CRT monitor, an image whatsoever is shown every 20ms.
  • Display a new image every 20ms and you get an ultra smooth 50fps animation.
  • Display a new image every 40ms, you get a smooth 25fps animation.
So far, so good: anything moving at 24fps+ will cheat the human brain to see smoothness, butterflies and unicorns.
  • Display a new image every 60ms, you get 16.66fps. Brain will notice it is being cheated upon, but being focused on a saving a 25fps sprite from being beaten by bad guys, that would still work I think.
  • Display a new image every 80ms, you get 12.50fps. It's going to be reaaally hard to distract the brain from the fact that you don't even try to cheat it. It might also respond, eventually, with angry messages online or ... seizure.
Looking at your animated GIF (a few pages back), the 25fps scroll is much too fast, the 12.5fps much too slow. The GIF at 18fps is the only one looking good with the walking animation, except that this refresh rate is not really possible (unless adding stuttering ie. variable image refresh rate, or fugly tearing artifacts to the mix: don't). Hence this post, so we might have the chance to see a new GIF simulation at 16.6ms :)

Anyway, the most important now, is M.Jones your real name? Can I have an autograph anyway? :)


I'm not M.Jones :) .

Regarding the scrolling - anything below 18 fps just looks too choppy for my liking and is a definite no no. Although the 25FPS is quite fast in the gif, a long stretch with them walking for that amount of time without enemies would not happen. Beat em ups are usually:

Walk for a bit
Fight for a while
walk a bit more
fight for a while.....

There will be a transition period when the characters will walk 1 full screen (256 width)to access the next level (like Double Dragon), but that's as much length they will probably travel without other things happening on screen.

Offline qbert

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #401 on: 14:21, 21 December 13 »
Above all the different musics that have been proposed here, I definitively vote for this one from sigh.
 yes to the recurring melody
yes to the drums
yes to the bassline
that is to say... 3 voices, exactly what a AY-3-8910 need to eat !


Hard Scary hip-hop beat {rap} Instrumental - YouTube



Okay. Here are some examples I've been digging up:

Go to 0:30

Hard Scary hip-hop beat {Rap} Instrumental *Original*

Regarding this particular track (and most of this type of music in that genre) they're very "loop" orientated. I really would like to avoid having the music looped as it doesn't really tell a story when created in that way. I also wouldn't want the music playing continuously through the level as this spoils the atmosphere. This track does have a good eerie tone to it.

This is what's really good about the first stage and second stage music of Target Renegade on the CPC, as they're not really looped, though regarding the first stage it's definitely out of synch when compared to the Spectrum version.

The tension on the second stage is my favourite as there are parts when the music stops playing completely and the only sound is the punching and kicking. Not too sure if this was intentional but it's such an eerie moment. The Spectrum version plays the track all the way through. I much prefer the CPC version because of the empty space that comes in and out. It would be great to get a structure in the music tracks where there is full on music, then some quite moments where the music is subtle and then completely empty space where there is no music at all, iin all the tracks.

Go To 3:17 for a brilliant example of this on the second stage of Target Renegade. It incorporates all of these. The music stops playing at 3:47 then comes back in at 4:05 but quietly. Then empty space again on 4:50, then it comes back in again on  5:13 but this time with the bassline. Really cool structure!

Target Renegade Amstrad CPC (longplay)
« Last Edit: 14:24, 21 December 13 by qbert »

Offline TFM

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #402 on: 01:54, 22 December 13 »
Not bad, but.... a bit slow for an action game... good for approaching a boss maybe...


Some ideas...


Iron Maiden - 2 Minutes to midnight 8-bit Remix


and


8-Bit Metal Shit: Amon Amarth - War of the Gods


Some are well here...


Testament - Into The Pit (8 Bit)




Hope you like it.  :)
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #403 on: 15:04, 22 December 13 »
The last 2 tracks has some cool drum patterns. It would be interesting to hear how the tune would feel if there was a construct a build up before hitting a crescendo, that would incorporate a rhythm similar to the last track.

I've been trawling the internet trying to find soundtracks that have a build up (like the 3 I posted on page 26), but a lot of them fall into an orchestral type genre which isn't right for the game.

Offline ralferoo

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #404 on: 17:52, 22 December 13 »
How have I not been paying attention to this thread? The animations look awesome! :)

Offline Puresox

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #405 on: 19:22, 22 December 13 »


Hard Scary hip-hop beat {rap} Instrumental - YouTube



I think this would be awesome , a great find .

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #406 on: 23:17, 22 December 13 »
Damn I hate those "8bit music" videos... because they olways put this fucking NES MIDI soundset and i hate it.
Sounds like shit.

Can't beat a real programmed AY... IMO.



Those lazy pretenders pretend to Chiptune but are imposters...

They desacrate my holy real chiptune.

Let's Exorcist this infamy !
AMSTRAD CPC 464 MUSIC ~ One hour mix #2
AMSTRAD CPC DEMO MUSIC ~ Kangaroo demos

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #407 on: 21:05, 23 December 13 »
Catching up with the thread; I agree with TFM, seeing the system font in a production is not so cool, even if used for the intro alone. It kind of takes you out of it...

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #408 on: 22:19, 23 December 13 »
Damn I hate those "8bit music" videos... because they olways put this fucking NES MIDI soundset and i hate it.
Sounds like shit.

Can't beat a real programmed AY... IMO.


Heh heh! You hate the "NES-ness" :D
Thanks for those links.

Catching up with the thread; I agree with TFM, seeing the system font in a production is not so cool, even if used for the intro alone. It kind of takes you out of it...


A new font has now been created from a font that arnoldemu sent to me. It's good and readable!


Offline Gryzor

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #409 on: 10:15, 24 December 13 »
Can we take a peak at the font? :)

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #410 on: 11:10, 24 December 13 »
No peeking at demo's or font :)

I may show a few seconds of the demo at some point, but not the whole thing.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #411 on: 11:13, 24 December 13 »
You teaser :D

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #412 on: 04:55, 03 January 14 »
I came across this (ignore the voice samples),


Marvin Gaye vs. Gorillaz - I Heard It Through the Grapevine vs. Feel Good Inc.


Has anything complex like this been attempted on the CPC? How well would it do in terms of imitating scratching noises?

Another interesting find was this nintendo mix of 8 bit hip hop where they imitated all the rap lyrics into sound effects! It sounds very weird indeed but some parts were interesting.





Offline McKlain

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #413 on: 19:39, 03 January 14 »
If it were made using samples, you wouldn't be able to use it on a game (at least on an standard CPC). If you are going to use plain AY sounds, it would require some expertise and imagination to make similar sounds.


On wich platform ran that 8 bit hip hop mix that you heard? NES? GameBoy?

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #414 on: 23:00, 03 January 14 »
If it were made using samples, you wouldn't be able to use it on a game (at least on an standard CPC). If you are going to use plain AY sounds, it would require some expertise and imagination to make similar sounds.

Yes. I wasn't thinking of using samples, I was wondering about the AY sounds imitating scratching effects. I would really like to know if there are any examples out there as I think it would be really interesting to have in one of the levels. Scratching contains spaces in the music as well as being a good way to cut to a different track or tone of the music on the same level.

On wich platform ran that 8 bit hip hop mix that you heard? NES? GameBoy?

NES I think:

8-Bit Hip Hop Medley

I'm not to sure if it's from a real nintendo, but unlike some other 8 bit tunes - this really does give the impression that it could come from a real nintendo as it makes no attempt to hide the limitations from the sound chip, which is why it can sound quite off, but nevertheless - highly interesting. I wouldn't mind attempting something like this for one of the boss levels

Offline McKlain

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #415 on: 23:37, 03 January 14 »
Well, the "voice" is made just with a lot of pitch changes. You can do the same on the cpc.


About the scratching... well, something could be done  ;D

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #416 on: 21:02, 05 January 14 »
Demo is finished and am now looking to sort out the background tiles. I've installed Tiled but was wondering what people normally use. These backgrounds are very detailed so I need a process that would be quick!



Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #417 on: 22:53, 05 January 14 »
Here's the first 500 frames of the enormous 3500 + frame gameplay demo. I'm not posting the whole thing as it's also currenty playing at twice the speed it should for some reason.

http://i.imgur.com/LidBd0g.gif[/img]]



Offline kawickboy

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #418 on: 22:56, 05 January 14 »
the final combo is awesome. great job.

Offline Joseman

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #419 on: 03:50, 06 January 14 »
impressive, Renegade is still there but boosted in anyway, you have my admiration, and for sure i will buy a copy of the game when released.

Offline redbox

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #420 on: 13:49, 06 January 14 »
The animation is superb.

What a nice new year present :)

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #421 on: 15:06, 06 January 14 »

1) Mohawk punk gang                          - Residential area          Boss Type: HEAVY MALE
4) Female gang                                     - 2 floor music club       Boss Type: NORMAL FEMALE
3) Hoodie wearing, moped riding gang - The bridge                  Boss Type: NORMAL MALE
2) Football shirt wearing gang             -  Park,                           Boss Type: HEAVY FEMALE
5) Mask wearing gang                           - Underground Sewer: Boss Type: NORMAL MALE
6) Prison gang                                       - Prison                         Boss Type: NORMAL MALE

The next area I will tackle is the park, although it will resemble more of a forest than a park in order to make the tilling easier (I think).
I'm looking forward to this background as it's something very different from the last level and it will have different ground heights. The enemies for this level will be an all male group with a female heavy boss.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #422 on: 20:55, 06 January 14 »
Oh man, wish I could give you 50 likes for that gif...

Offline jbaudrand

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #423 on: 08:22, 07 January 14 »
I can't wait to play your game with my bros ^^ just like good old time

Offline sigh

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Re: Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics
« Reply #424 on: 15:57, 14 January 14 »
Hello,


I'm currently sorting out all the naming conventions of the legs and torso's for the characters. I had to do some serious optimization on the backgrounds produced too many tiles. I actually found it quite fun!


I'll have the male naming conventions finished week and should have the female done afterwards. It's taken a little longer than I thought as there are a lot of torso sprites for the male, though I think the female has a lot less.


In regards to the music, I've been thinking that as each levelwill have an atmospheric track (Scorpio's view style) then for the boss fight, an actual piece of continuous music. I was thinking yesterday, that it would make the build up feel better and it's not necessary to have "space" in the music in a boss fight. The boss fight should feel dramatic and intense in a different way compared to the rest of the level you walk through to get there.
For instance the park/forest level with the the football shirt wearing gang could have menacing music with dark football chants(using the noise channel like in Matchday 2 or Emlyn Hughes), then when the boss comes it changes to something heavier, but still keeping the football chant theme.

Imagine something like this instrumental but with chants:

System of a Down - Prison Song Guitar Backing Track