Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics

[arnoldemu]

Of course, the 25fps choice must be confirmed by the coder, because that speed can be difficult to achieve depending on the amount and size of the sprites.

I guess arnoldemu has given the green light about it. Would be possible to talk to Kevin about the sprite painting techniques he plan to use?

For me it's not a problem to code, it's how smooth the result will be and at this time I can't fully answer the question.

I am working on various techniques, all of which can and will probably change as I refine and evolve my ideas.

I will be testing some ideas in terms of sprite drawing, scrolling, ai etc.

There are some things I have not tried before. I have plans of how to do it, but as always I will probably need to rethink them a few
times to get the best result.

[kawickboy]

great looking. do you still consider a 2 players mode ?

[sigh]

great looking. do you still consider a 2 players mode ?

Yes. It has always been 2 player.

[Gryzor]

In respect to which caracter initiates scrolling, I think it should be both. Scroll as far as possible with the second sprite remains x pixels in the screen. No reason to restrict it to one of two, really.


As for the speed, you're right, the first version goes too fast. I like v2. However, replacing walking with running would be interesting - it would probably give a different outlook to the whole game I think!

[sigh]

Looking at double dragon and streets of rage, it looks as though either character will initiate the scrolling when they reach 3/4 of the screen.

I've been working on the demo, all this week and I've found that the Dynamite Dux scrolling (the fast but smooth) is without a doubt, definitely the best option as the gameplay feels so much smoother and polished with this type of scroll. The characters aren't going to be moving in long stretches like in the gif I posted, so it shouldn't be distracting.

I've finished 3 sections of the demo so far which have demostrated the different fighting moves, enviroment interactions and also advanced combat such as the parrying, counter attacks, dodging and blocking.
I'm currently finishing the demo section of using weapons and objects, where afterwards, I will be animating a demo of the first level boss fight. I will then have to demo the HUD and user interface.

[sigh]

Update:

Getting through the demo and happy with the progress so far. I have 2 more screens to do, and then the UI and HUD demos.
However - I'm still trying to find different music styles:


Flash Point Soundtrack - Unknown Track
This is a fantastic martial arts film with this particular sound track haveing an incredible tension to it.


Scorpio's Theme - Lalo Schifrin
I love the silence in the drums and the dramatic escalation starting iin the middle of the track.


In the House, In a Heartbeat - John Murphy
Very menacing. The volume rising to new heights could be nice to have on the game.



All though these tracks dont have many "total silent" spots, they do have a good mood to them.

[Gryzor]

I don't particlarly like chinese-style soundtracks, but after the first few seconds of Flash Point I could see how it could really fit. Even the loop - the tune ending, a few seconds of silence, then restarting - would be great.


To be frank I didn't much like Franco, and I can't imagine how it could fit.


28 Days Later is a favorite movie of mine, and the soundtrack gives me the chills every time. The rising tension is amazing[nb]especially in the scene where the protagonist goes berzerk, essentially turning into an enraged maniac[/nb], but I think it's a bit more dramatic than you would need?

[redbox]

In the House, In a Heartbeat - John Murphy
Very menacing. The volume rising to new heights could be nice to have on the game.

This is a sublime piece of music and think it would really add to the tension.  Not sure how someone would do it on the CPC though...?

As a side-note, it's very interesting to see the how composers who are heavily influenced by early-mid 90s British music (John Murphy, Clint Mansell etc) have used this in film scores.  If your game is set in the UK (and maybe in the 90s?) it would make for a very nice nod towards said influence.

[sigh]

I don't particlarly like chinese-style soundtracks, but after the first few seconds of Flash Point I could see how it could really fit. Even the loop - the tune ending, a few seconds of silence, then restarting - would be great.


To be frank I didn't much like Franco, and I can't imagine how it could fit.


28 Days Later is a favorite movie of mine, and the soundtrack gives me the chills every time. The rising tension is amazing[nb]especially in the scene where the protagonist goes berzerk, essentially turning into an enraged maniac[/nb], but I think it's a bit more dramatic than you would need?

What I really like about the "Scorpios Theme" is how that menacing deep base kicks in at around 1:25. It all feels so dangerous and aggressive.


28 Days Later is very intense indeed and you could be right that it maybe overkill, but I wonder how it would feel fighting towards the end of level with that sort of intensity. Even have it so it escalates that it ends up drowning the actual sound effects.

This is a sublime piece of music and think it would really add to the tension.  Not sure how someone would do it on the CPC though...?

Yeah - I'm not really trying to replicate these sort of tracks on the CPC; I'm more trying to establish the mood, tone and atmosphere of what the music could be like while playing.

[Gryzor]

"Even have it so it escalates that it ends up drowning the actual sound effects."

Wow, what a beautiful idea.

[sigh]

The story so far.


The demo; I have three more game play sections to demonstrate. Working on this demo, I've had to revisit the game play mechanics and scoring which has now been simplified and works much better. I'm really pleased with the outcome as the score mechanic is going to be a lot of fun to play. This however does mean that I willl now need to redesign the HUD. I'm also having deal with a lot of "what ifs?".
"What ifs?" are basically game play mechanics that need to be taken into consideration so it doesn't break the game:


1) Player 1 holds an enemy from behind.
2) Player 2 punches held enemy.


What if - Player 2 flykicks the enemy or uses a weapon on the enemy instead of punching? Does only the enemy fall, or does both the player and enemy fall?


That was a very basic and easy example, but I have a long list of such situations that were very hard to figure out, that had come up while working on the demo. This demo has been incredibly helpful for these reasons and some of these problems that have come up have taken days and sometimes weeks before the problem is solved, or in some cases, removing that particular mechanic from the entire game.


Can anyone point me to a simple to use music program where I can create some CPC music?

[Gryzor]

So glad to see this progressing nicely...


As for the what-ifs, I'm sure you can get some decent feedback by asking here

[TFM]

Can anyone point me to a simple to use music program where I can create some CPC music?

Well, this is what we actually really lack on CPC. I don't know one. But if you want to get the best results and don't mind to take time to learn how it works, then the Arkos Tracker on PC is probably the best choice. Would be Starkos on CPC.

[sigh]

Well, this is what we actually really lack on CPC. I don't know one.

Ahhh......

But if you want to get the best results and don't mind to take time to learn how it works, then the Arkos Tracker on PC is probably the best choice. Would be Starkos on CPC.

Had a look on youtube for for some tutorials but found none. I will download it after the animation demo is done, but I will be using some place holder sound effects from other games for now to put onto the demo. I'll most likely use the Dirty Harry's "Scorpio's Theme" for now as that's the sort of mood I would like for the game.

[sigh]

Demo is still going on and I'd probably need 1 or 2 days to finish of the game play as I have 2 more sections left to do.


One of the things that has me wondering is about fonts. I'll need to create a font in mode 0 and mode 1. However - I was wondering if there is a mode 0 and 1 font that is native to the CPC so that I don't have to waste sprite sheet space in creating them. This would be helpful as that would mean that there wouldn't have to be any code created in regards to formatting the font (like creating the correct amount of space between words and letters).


I'm currently creating a mode 0 font for this demo but it' takes an incredible amount of time when it comes to creating words. For the demo I've just been creating the sentences in my paint program for now.


The game play screen will need mode 0 fonts and the hud will need mode 1 fonts.

[TFM]

About fonts... you don't have to paint all 256 characters, just paint what you need. That saves RAM.


Yes, for real beauty you should make fonts for Mode 1 and 0 separated.


However if you're fine with a mono color font, then you can use the font of the system, it's located in the lower ROM between &3800 and &3FFF.


Some people don't like to see the system font in games / demos, because it may make an not professional impression. This is due to the fact that we grow up with prods using own character sets / fonts. So our mind tells us: No system font --> Must be good!


Personally I don't mind the system font at all, but a lot of people do. So in final stage an own font is probably an good idea.

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

Your MODE 0 font (I'm assuming 4x8 pixels) doesn't have to be 16 colours either - you could define it in half the RAM in 4 colours (and indeed the text drawing routine could set the upper bits, so you get four colour variants of the font, if your palette is suitably arranged). That, alongside only defining <=96 characters can save some RAM (<=0.5KB RAM for the font) to implement a MODE 1 font (again, <=96 characters).


Alternatively, you could define a 6-pixel wide 4-colour font, and use it both in MODE 0 and 1, but you'd have to experiment with that to see if you liked the effect.

[sigh]

About fonts... you don't have to paint all 256 characters, just paint what you need. That saves RAM.


Yes, for real beauty you should make fonts for Mode 1 and 0 separated.


However if you're fine with a mono color font, then you can use the font of the system, it's located in the lower ROM between &3800 and &3FFF.


Some people don't like to see the system font in games / demos, because it may make an not professional impression. This is due to the fact that we grow up with prods using own character sets / fonts. So our mind tells us: No system font --> Must be good!


Personally I don't mind the system font at all, but a lot of people do. So in final stage an own font is probably an good idea.

I'm only using caps at this current time, but I'm interested in checking out the system font. Does this system font work in both mode 0 and 1?

Your MODE 0 font (I'm assuming 4x8 pixels) doesn't have to be 16 colours either - you could define it in half the RAM in 4 colours (and indeed the text drawing routine could set the upper bits, so you get four colour variants of the font, if your palette is suitably arranged). That, alongside only defining <=96 characters can save some RAM (<=0.5KB RAM for the font) to implement a MODE 1 font (again, <=96 characters).


Alternatively, you could define a 6-pixel wide 4-colour font, and use it both in MODE 0 and 1, but you'd have to experiment with that to see if you liked the effect.

My font it currently 8x6.  I'll leave it like this for now for the demo, but I'll need to create something smaller and still readable.
I may use the system font and an original font.


The system font would be used for the story text and the original for hud and UI.

[TFM]

I'm only using caps at this current time, but I'm interested in checking out the system font. Does this system font work in both mode 0 and 1?

Yes, it works in all modes, because it's just a 8x8 pixel bit mask (0 or 1). So you have 8 bytes, every bytes contains 8 pixel (equals a bit for every pixel) from left to right. The 8 bytes are shown in Y from up to down.


For every mode there is another display routine, but they all use the same font.

[arnoldemu]

About fonts... you don't have to paint all 256 characters, just paint what you need. That saves RAM.

I have tools that will examine all the strings in the program and work out which characters are needed and only store those.
So it is ok to create a whole font, not worry about what chars are used, change the strings as needed and use the tool to generate the result.
Much easier

[sigh]

I have tools that will examine all the strings in the program and work out which characters are needed and only store those.
So it is ok to create a whole font, not worry about what chars are used, change the strings as needed and use the tool to generate the result.
Much easier

Okay. I'll carry on as is.


There are a couple of letters giving me problems, namely "W" and "M" in wide pixel mode 0. They're currently 10x6. I'm going to have to look at some other games to see how they handle those particular characters, as I want them to be readable in an 8x6 format.

[sigh]

I'm going to create one font style. Due to the mode 0 pixels, the words will end up having a mixture of lower case and upper case letters. It may end up a little weird looking, but I think that's the way to go.

[TotO]

If you know that it will look weird, then don't wast time to draw it... Chose Mode 0 upper only, or Mode 1 font + splited modes.

[arnoldemu]

I'm going to create one font style. Due to the mode 0 pixels, the words will end up having a mixture of lower case and upper case letters. It may end up a little weird looking, but I think that's the way to go.

I have sent you a font

[Grim]

....and here is the speed of the background I would like to have moving at 18FPS. The sprite would still need to animate at 25FPS.

With a 50 Hz CRT monitor, an image whatsoever is shown every 20ms.

• Display a new image every 20ms and you get an ultra smooth 50fps animation.
• Display a new image every 40ms, you get a smooth 25fps animation.

So far, so good: anything moving at 24fps+ will cheat the human brain to see smoothness, butterflies and unicorns.

• Display a new image every 60ms, you get 16.66fps. Brain will notice it is being cheated upon, but being focused on a saving a 25fps sprite from being beaten by bad guys, that would still work I think.
• Display a new image every 80ms, you get 12.50fps. It's going to be reaaally hard to distract the brain from the fact that you don't even try to cheat it. It might also respond, eventually, with angry messages online or ... seizure.

Looking at your animated GIF (a few pages back), the 25fps scroll is much too fast, the 12.5fps much too slow. The GIF at 18fps is the only one looking good with the walking animation, except that this refresh rate is not really possible (unless adding stuttering ie. variable image refresh rate, or fugly tearing artifacts to the mix: don't). Hence this post, so we might have the chance to see a new GIF simulation at 16.6ms :)

Anyway, the most important now, is M.Jones your real name? Can I have an autograph anyway? :)