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R-Type

Started by Keith A Goodyer, 04:08, 25 February 10

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fano

Just a suggestion : that could be interesting to split this thread from #84 to create a new one about R-Type  ;)
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Gryzor

Quote from: fano on 08:50, 22 April 10
Just a suggestion : that could be interesting to split this thread from #84 to create a new one about R-Type  ;)

Done :)

fano

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Leonie

Do I have this right?
Is there a new version of R-Type in the pipeline?
That would be great.

fano

Quote from: Leonie on 10:51, 22 April 10
Do I have this right?
Is there a new version of R-Type in the pipeline?
That would be great.
Yes , it follows the same way as RD128+ but for classical CPC with disk and 128K of RAM.But the road is still long and there will be months before showable result.
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MacDeath

#30
QuoteI would need the tiles for the   background of Level 2 (just what you show on the picture). That's all.   I'll send you the "result" first, and in case you dislike it nobody will   ever see it.
Well, if you want the tiles, they are not finished ATM concerning level2, bu t you can get the picture I did in the past at my cpcwiki's page.

http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/MacDeath

Juste cut parts of the picture and import them as tiles with something like tile studio or whatever enable this kind of import.

I put you the TileStudio file here with this post.

So you'll need tileStudio :
http://tilestudio.sourceforge.net/


It is to notice that the lvel 2 I shown you before (the WIP) will be a bit different, because I start again using the Files Fano sent me instead of the tiles I ripped thx to the graphics I found there :
http://www.sitedesteph.freesurf.fr/rtype/index.php?page=niveaux&plat=cpc


Considerations and Metaphysic with MODE1 horizontal shooter engines and integration of raster colour changes : ;)


Concerning the re-use of R-Type 's tiles in mode1.
Well, IMO, a proper engine for the 6128+ may still manage a good visual result despite the lack of colours.

The use of HardSprites is enough to put a boost on colours, also perhaps puting some raster colour chages can add a nice feeling depending how the level is finally designed.

Exemple : the player's vessel would need only 1-2 Hardsprites, yet not animated (as an horizontal shooter actually doesn't need the vessel to be really animated) it's a cheap way to get a good looking sprite and it can move well and smooth.

This then let 14 Hardsprites slots to add some ennemies, or even special effects, and perhaps multiplexing some of them for enemie waves can really do it.
Also you have to remember that you can still store some data in the RAM (if using a 6128...or perhaps a 512k ROM cartridge... 8) ) as not every kind of sprite are to be displayed at the same time (just adapt the game's design, level's design and enemies' patterns...)


Concerning Rastercolour changes, I have the Idea that getting something like 5 zones can do a sweet effect.

The Top and bottom borders would display a regularly shaped mass (corridor levels, a with a maze it wouldn't work that well...)  as can be seen on level5 (the flowers) or 8 from R-Type.
So if it is a foreground (sprite being behind them or collision destroying the player) they can have their own "raster zone", so a good part of the level may even display 2 different colours (just keep the Black and white in common then, but many stuff are possible)

Then concerning the play-ground (the middle zone) you may put 3-5 zones (Ideally) so some of the 4 colours would change slightly.

This would be the same colours but really slightly changed (thx to the 4096 palette) so you get a lighting effect.

Slightly Darker as you close to the top/bottom border, slightly  lighter as you get to the middle of the screen...or whatever.


Even with a CPC old, we have some of the 27 colours that are so slightly different that we almost dont seen the difference.

the 2 yellows 24 and 25.
Greens 18 and 21.
Light blues 20 and 23.
purples 08 and 17.
strange blues 05 and 14.
Greens 19 and 22.

So a level using those colours may use this technique...

Also something like the white getting coloured more like the top/bottom background...

Exemple :

7 zones :
--continued top border background (sprites can't go there) : lets say orange stuff..
--1/5 from top : white becomes yellow 24.
--2/5 : white becomes yellow 25
--3/5 (middle) : white is white.
--4/5 from top (2/5 from bottom) : white becomes light blue 23.
--5/5 form top (1/5 from bottom) : white becommes light blue 20.
--continued bottom border : something in blue like a sea-water.

another simpler effect/config : only a bottom background : rocky desert in orange or Lava/melting inferno.

4 zones :
--Bottom background : orange.
--close to the bottom : Yellow.
--closer to the middle : light yellow.
--upper middle : white.

So it would do like some kind of sand storm, or radiations or whatever...
or like a light reflecting on the surface and being tainted.


you can do such trick with Yellow, green, blue as the CPC old palette is well supplyed in nearly identical light tones. (colours 18 to 26).


Just remember the red sky from switchblade on GX4000...
Or Stryker in the Crypt of Trogan, with it's clearly visible Raster colour changes in the playground, being one of the rare game to effectively use this like that.


The same can be done even smootherly with a PLUS, yet it wouldn't work with Hardwired sprites...(unless it is possible to fastly change the Hardsprite's palette without reloading them... Is it possible ?)

The only problem : is it difficult the get a good Mode1 engine enabling 3 to 7 raster zones ? (and perhaps even +1 for the HUD)


Next : why not putting the "ligthing effect" centered on the player's sprite ?

But this would need the raster to move with the player's sprite...

The idea between this is that many Speccy ports actually have Raster colour chages.

PacMania, blackTiger, Deflektor...and even R-Type.
And a mode1 shadow of the beast could have been far better with a bit of Rasters instead of those 2 shitty slilly looking snakes, for the exterior levels...
(The bottom's fence would then get 1-2 different colours, the upper sky with the mood too..?)

Of course such thing can't probabably be added to the existing R-Type Engine (mmm...Levles 6 and 8 would do great with a slight change for the top/bottom...), but something designed specificly may be great too.

Also my exemples change only the white, but a second colour may also be altered the same way, depending of the inks/colours choosen.

Needless to say, such stuff is also possible with a Mode0 games, this may even be far more awesome IMO.

Up to you, code wizards ! :P

Leonie

Quote from: fano on 11:06, 22 April 10
Yes , it follows the same way as RD128+ but for classical CPC with disk and 128K of RAM.
But the road is still long and there will be months before showable result.

Can we look forward to some technical improvements?
The scrolling of R-Type is really strange-looking. On the right side of the screen you can see the "birth of every block".
Can someone explain the cause of this?

Gryzor

I don't know why this happens in technical terms, but it's worth noting that it's not the poor CPC's fault - you see this kind of scolling entry even today, on TV, when they have scrolling text; sometimes the same happens...

Leonie

Quote from: Gryzor on 13:06, 22 April 10
I don't know why this happens in technical terms, but it's worth noting that it's not the poor CPC's fault - you see this kind of scolling entry even today, on TV, when they have scrolling text; sometimes the same happens...

You´re right, off course it´s not the CPC´s fault. There are a lot of games for the Amstrad with better scrolling.
Maybe ArnoldEmu can say more about how the R-Type-scrolling works?!

ukmarkh

The scrolling in R-TYPE on the CPC is a bit weird, it was also as if the left side of the screen eraseses bytes from the graphics, right before its scrolled out onto the screen.

fano

#35
For right side , it seems to be the simplier and the fastest method.It is possible to remove this 'step' but that will need some (hard) work.
As graphics are stored as characters , the program only draw a full character every 8 scroll move.

For left side, it is simply caused by starfield.In fact , when a star reach the left side of the screen , visible or not (behind the background) , it is erased with a black byte.If the star was behind background the program does not care and still draw a black byte cause the erasing.

The scrolling works too with characters system like sprites, it is not complicated but that could be a bit long to explain (if you are really interested , i'll add a message about it)
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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Leonie

There is no other game that I know with this kind of "step"-scrolling like R-Type.
For the new R-Type version, is it possible to remove the stars to gain CPU-Power for a better background-scrolling?
Would that make a difference?
How CPU-Intense are the stars?
 

fano

Quote from: Leonie on 14:50, 22 April 10How CPU-Intense are the stars?

Look at the attached image, the colors in the border show time used for interruptions.The first blue zone is the interrupt when the starfield is drawn , the zone that does approx 2 chars near the score is just a synchronisation for score raster so it is lost time

Quote from: Leonie on 14:50, 22 April 10
There is no other game that I know with this kind of "step"-scrolling like R-Type.
There are not a lot of games that does pixel scrolling in mode 1 on CPC (i can not remember anyone)


Quote from: Leonie on 14:50, 22 April 10For the new R-Type version, is it possible to remove the stars to gain CPU-Power for a better background-scrolling?
Would that make a difference?
Or to implement a sound player to add music and sfx in the same time  ;)
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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Leonie

Quote from: fano on 15:09, 22 April 10
Or to implement a sound player to add music and sfx in the same time  ;)

Yeah, that´s a good idea.  ;)
How about a big titeltune, with soundchip/digi-mixmusic?
(Dear Targhan, can you hear me?)
But I don´t really like the original-music of the Arcade-Original that much, maybe some new music should be composed. (Does someone like the InGame-soundtrack of Arcade-R-Type?)
Are there any plans to code the new R-Type in Mode 0?
Full colour would be nice, but a lot of hard work I think...

Gryzor

It would be a blasphemy not to use the original R-Type theme, methinks...

Also, about the stars: the background would get too empty and boring IMHO!

Finally: I think Mode 1 would be the best...

TFM

#40
About R-Type scrolling: Complete tiles are drawn, because if you draw every single pixel, it cost's a lot of time more. I use the same technique for Giana Sisters, even if I draw 1/4 of a 16 Mode 0 Pixel broad tile every second frame, anything else is possible but uses up cpu power.

About R-Type scrolling: @Fano: Well you can use two screens in the first 64 KB and put the whole game to the second bank, so you can make the scrolling more efficient. But in this case you have soooo much work to to (get game in 2. 64 KB) that it would be like to rewrite it. So maybe it is not that hard as I think ... just an idea, hope it helps....

@MacDeath & Fano: Thank's a lot guys! You're great!!!

Again about pixel scrolling: Like I remember ... Forgotten Worlds did it too.
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

viddi

Wow, just WOW!!!

Another fantastic project.
You guys rule!

Thanks a lot. :)

MacDeath

#42
QuoteAlso, about the stars: the background would get too empty and boring   IMHO!
Well, the Starfield had the advantge to actually add a bit of colours on the screen as the backgrounds were monocolour and the empty space simply black.

but with properly redesigned tiles, the monotone feeling will probably be less present.

Also the sprites are getting recoloured too, so the full screen will actually look a lot more coloured...less empty, as every graphics will get more relief/volume/presence compared to the Attribute-like colouring of the sprites and the 1bit tiles.

But my feeling about this starfield :

--first we should try to get rid of it. Just to see if the game is really increased in speed.
--But because it is effectively a mean to fill the screen, well it should get a complete modification if it is to stay.

I don't know the detail on how to do a starfield.
Yet :
--getting it running slowlier than the backgrounds : would make a "paralax" effect, and perhaps take a lot less ressources.

--Just getting it working on the 1/3 middle of the playground (between 1/3 and 2/3, centered on the middle or whatever)
Because there are almost always tiles on the bottom and top of the screen, it's useless to fill this part ofthe screen with a starfield.

Also it is to notice that only a few parts of the game are actually in exterior environment.
So getting the starfield only on the middle of the screen would produce an enclosed roofed environment feeling.

Get a look at Arcades level5 to get what I mean.


On the other hand, a lot of bosses (almost all of them...except perhaps level 4's...) are supposed to be static, so a scrolling starfield while blasting them is simply ridiculous !


What  is the framerate of the starfield ?

Perhaps getting it with a "poor" framerate would also give a Sparkle effect : this would per exemple lessen the effect of the "collisions" with the unmasked elements (the square shadow of death, usefull against colourclashes, useless on a CPC...lol...)

As Stars sparckling would indeed even add realism...


But in my opinion, the actual starfield is too fast, put too much stars, and screw to much the game.
It's fast, fluid but inadequat.
Even when the game slows due to a shitton of explosions, enemies and a fully equipped R9, it seems that the Starfield never really slows down...it is the only one then...

Get out !

TFM

Quote from: MacDeath on 17:06, 22 April 10
Even when the game slows due to a shitton of explosions, enemies and a fully equipped R9, it seems that the Starfield never really slows down...it is the only one then...

Seems to be interrupt controlled. In this case it could be (hopefully) quite easy to switch it off, just to see how much ressources would be set free. Or if there is a speed up in game-play (and how much).
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Gryzor

Indeed, I think a slow starfield would work quite well and produce a parallax effect.

But I don't think it'd look ridiculous in boss fights - the boss may appear static relative to the screen view, but both him and the ship move through space...

TFM

Quote from: Gryzor on 17:35, 22 April 10
But I don't think it'd look ridiculous in boss fights - the boss may appear static relative to the screen view, but both him and the ship move through space...

True for some of them, maybe not for Level 2
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Leonie

Quote from: Gryzor on 16:13, 22 April 10
It would be a blasphemy not to use the original R-Type theme, methinks...

Also, about the stars: the background would get too empty and boring IMHO!

Finally: I think Mode 1 would be the best...

The motion was defeated... :'( :'( :'(

Leonie

Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:40, 22 April 10

True for some of them, maybe not for Level 2

Also not for Level 1...

MacDeath

#48
The 1st level : only the beginning is supposed to be in open space, the   rest (after you pass the reactor door) is enclosed.

2nd level : some sort of giant biologic garbage were you fight a giant vagina monster probably inside the anus of a living planet... ???

The 3rd level is moving, with a giant vessel so yeah the starfield is perhaps suitable, yet at the end of the level the scroll stops and you're like in some sort of cavern...(Roof)

  Actually the boss from 4th level is quite supposed to be in space.

5th level : looks like inside the bowel of a giant living planet too, being attacked by gastric worms, the flowers being in fact "Intestinal villus"
Yet the original background seems quite deep  so the middle-only starfield would suit, if slow enough.

6th level : some sort of Factory. enclosed.


7th level : oh, another enclosed garbaged junkyard, yet this one is more mechanical, yet full   of critters too... this one doesn't look like an anus.

Last level (8th) : this time you are inside a giant testicle heaven... fighting an old perverse behind 2 green penises with tentacles on the Glans... while you get attacked by avorted Foetuses...


Seriously, what's wrong with japanesess ? ;D

So yep, the starfield is bad, evil, a screw by the Bydo empire...



Is it possible to simply freeze the starfield ?
So it remains stationnary, no more moving but still being displayed ?

If so, this is perhaps a good solution for the static bosses.

On the other hand, this "Starfield" may indeed be some kind of spores in suspension in the air.



mmm.
As Fano pointed, there is a wait for the Raster colour change of the HUD.

This would be wasting time.

If so, this may explain why so many speccy ports are so laggish and sluggish.
Would it put more waiting time to add other rasters ? or would it fill this timer ?

(I don't figure how does it work)

fano

Quote from: TFM/FS on 16:31, 22 April 10About R-Type scrolling: @Fano: Well you can use two screens in the first 64 KB and put the whole game to the second bank, so you can make the scrolling more efficient.
It is a good idea , i'll take a look if it is possible.

Quote from: Leonie on 15:46, 22 April 10But I don´t really like the original-music of the Arcade-Original that much, maybe some new music should be composed. (Does someone like the InGame-soundtrack of Arcade-R-Type?)
I like the original arcade musique, the themes are mythics.They have been adapted for AY on Atari ST but the result is not happy , they must be adapted with STArkos/Arkos Tracker to take advantage of this great tool.

Quote from: Leonie on 15:46, 22 April 10Are there any plans to code the new R-Type in Mode 0?
Full colour would be nice, but a lot of hard work I think...
To be honnest i have a preference for Mode 0 but MacDeath owns the full choice of graphical mode , i rely on him for gfx so he can choose the mode he wants as long the result is good.After , the CPC code is generic except for one or two routines so for me mode 0 or mode 2 do not make a big difference.
I don't think Mode 0 or 2 are the hardest  for this game, Mode 1 is for me the hardest choice.

About starfield , it adds a lot to the game apparence because it runs at 50Hz so that can give the impression the game is faster than it is in reality.Counterpart is it eats a lot of machine time.
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

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