R-Type X CPC

[TFM]

Yes right! We shall consider the 6128 as minimum configuration. There's IMHO really no need to be 464 compatible.

With the sprites I agree. The hardware sprites are good for high-resolution sprites. Anythig else can be done in software.

Further... Imagine sprites part software and part hardware. For example a mighty=large enemy, the body is made via software sprites and the face(or what ever) is shown using a hardware sprite(s) with a high resolution.

Again to the 128 KB discussion... The Giana Sisters Clone I'm working on has already serious problems to run in 128 KB, guess 100 bytes are unused and the game is NOT finished.
So, IMHO if we want to do our future X-Type project well, 128 KB is the MINIMUM. (Personally I would like to use a minimum of 256 KB, but I will be alone with this oppinion, so I better don't talk about it...).


Plus Sprites: Yeah! They seem to be a mathematical compromise ;-)

[ukmarkh]

So, IMHO if we want to do our future X-Type project well, 128 KB is the MINIMUM. (Personally I would like to use a minimum of 256 KB, but I will be alone with this oppinion, so I better don't talk about it...).

Are you kidding, 256K is fine with me... my 6128 Plus is fully loaded with 512k, the more the merrier. So instead of 64K, do a 128k and 256k game. But please, it needs to run outside of an OS. i.e. boot straight from basic.

[MacDeath]

Well, 256k is far from being a factory setting...

Of course because I have 3x 6128+ it's like I have 384k RAM...but no...


what would be the point with soo much RAM ?

More graphix ?
More Sounds ?

Perhaps releasing a 512ko cartridge/Rom would be enough then... and would enable a GX4000 compatibility also, so the totallity of PLUS possessors would buy this (we know some GX4000 have money to waste...

But to be honest I always wonder what would be a Amstrad 6512PLUS unleashed power do...

a 512K RAM/ROM demo or Game would actually be neat.

Or a 512K ROM + 512K RAM + 3"1/2 Disk...


Speccy scene actually released what they call "megagames" in east Europa (russians are crazy...) in the post-commercial speccy era (90's)

Because they actually have clones with extended specifications (many have 256K RAM or even more, and 3"1/2 disk drives too...), some even have built-in extra Video Hardwares...

But on CPC, perhaps only Orion Prime can pretend to be a Mega Game...

Yet just having a ghame which loads data between each levels and make full use of the 128K is still quite rare.

do you know any game in 128K using more than one complete disk ?

"Pirates!" perhaps if you count the Save disk ?
halas most of its graphics where lazy C64ports...
And the few action parts are a bit sluggish too (yet a lot of calculus as it is managed like a roleplaying/strategic game too...

Oh, and the French version had a lot of minor bugs too...lol...


Bavck to topic, what would you do with that many RAM ?
this doesn't help the Z80 that much actually.

Would it ?

Of course this may enable a lot of varied graphic along the same level... and a music very long and varied too...

Tet you'll still be limited by the 3 channels of the AY, and the fact that your Z80 has 16K squated by video at 50Hz... and by the sound too actually...

Also your only 16 Hardsprites are long to upload inside the ASIC... so you cannot make any animation festival...with them...

Yet SoftSprites with that much memory may actually be sweet... lots of variations and even re-oriented sprites variants with no software mirror effect...


I wish I had a cheap RAM/ROM box for my Amstrads...

StarSabre is awesome, especially in 128k version, yet the backgrounds are quite simple, sprites are small and the windows is small too...

[Devilmarkus]

I agree with MacDeath here.
above 128k and probably with need of extra ROMs a game is not enjoyable.

If a new game, it should run on base hardware without extras, super os'es, 3d accelerator cards, harddrives etc...
(Or who wants to code Direct-X port for Z80 and connect the new Nfidia GeFarce CPC-GT XLR-8-R?)

Simple:
Max 128k, should run on each machine with 128k ram!
That's it.

A CPC is not an Amiga or PC.
So we know about it's limits and these are ok.

[MacDeath]

GeFarce

Was this pun intended ?

Well on the other hand, if we could get a cheap and easy way to get 256K as a standard feature...
I always like to think that if 16bits were in 512k, a proper 8 bit should actually be in 256K...

But Allan sugar was cheap as hell...
He became rich because of this...


I simply wish a 512K GX4000 ROM based DEMO could participate to a Demo contest and close the Commordork's mouth once and for all...

[ukmarkh]

I thought everyone on this forum had more than 128K packed tightly into their CPC's or Plus machines?

[arnoldemu]

I thought everyone on this forum had more than 128K packed tightly into their CPC's or Plus machines?

I've got a collection of cpcs, some with 64k

[Devilmarkus]

I thought everyone on this forum had more than 128K packed tightly into their CPC's or Plus machines?

My 464 has 64k.
My 664, too.
My 6128's have 128k.
My 6128+ also has 128k.

no ram expansions...

[arnoldemu]

I simply wish a 512K GX4000 ROM based DEMO could participate to a Demo contest and close the Commordork's mouth once and for all...

a demo is comming that shows the standard cpc power. Not made by me... but I think people will be impressed when it's done.

All the commodore fans would say "that doesn't count".. because they all make demos for standard c64 config.
This 512k rom demo would either be cpc+ or "wild".

But, keep wishing because one day it will come true.

[ukmarkh]

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

[MacDeath]

Then do it !

[Leonie]

512K-Games?
I guess it´s real difficult to fill that memory with data, isn´t?
Unless you have tons of digitized sounds in your game for example.

[Leonie]

StarSabre is awesome, especially in 128k version.

You´re right.

...yet the backgrounds are quite simple

The backgrounds of the first two levels are simple, but in the higher levels the backgrounds gains richness. 

...sprites are small.

The sprites are small and they looks too much like "playmobil", except the impressive level end bosses. Have you ever seen the final level end boss? He´s really vicious! The devil!   

...the windows is small too...

In my opinion the window is large enough. There are a lot of CPC-Games with smaller window and jerky scrolling/animation.

[ukmarkh]

The end of level bosses are really good in both the 64K and 128K versions, but the animated end sequence is better on the 64K version. I love the extra level on the 128K version though, and I find the scrolling, view and controls to be really good.

It's probably the best shoot-em-up on the CPC, but R-Type would smash it if done right.

[arnoldemu]

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

I assume you mean games that use 512k of ram at runtime, or at least games which use more than 128k at runtime.
Using 512k from multiload and with only 64k runtime is also possible

Really my thoughts are 512k for cartridge: of course, this is supported by base 464+ and 6128+ and gx4000, but you'd be limited to 64k runtime.
To make it work on all. But really that may not actually sound as bad as you think, because you could use more base 64k for screen and the code would run happily from inside the cartridge.

512k game for standard cpc? You are limiting your audience here. And really if you're going for 512k then you're also limiting it to disc users, because loading 512k of game from tape is not going to be a fun experience (Here I mean loading the entire 512k ram in one go, compared to reading levels and bits)

My personal choice is still to make a game which will run on the base system, the one you can just buy without upgrading.
And still 512k cartridge comes into play here...

As for making a game of this size, well lots of levels, lots of graphics, lots of sounds would really fill the space. The code itself would not..
and then for me this is a problem because making sounds and graphics are not my thing, so I would definitely need help here.

But anyway, I have other projects to finish first

[ukmarkh]

Carts sporting 512K would be fantastic. I'd be over the moon.

I assume you mean games that use 512k of ram at runtime, or at least games which use more than 128k at runtime.
Using 512k from multiload and with only 64k runtime is also possible

Really my thoughts are 512k for cartridge: of course, this is supported by base 464+ and 6128+ and gx4000, but you'd be limited to 64k runtime.
To make it work on all. But really that may not actually sound as bad as you think, because you could use more base 64k for screen and the code would run happily from inside the cartridge.

512k game for standard cpc? You are limiting your audience here. And really if you're going for 512k then you're also limiting it to disc users, because loading 512k of game from tape is not going to be a fun experience (Here I mean loading the entire 512k ram in one go, compared to reading levels and bits)

My personal choice is still to make a game which will run on the base system, the one you can just buy without upgrading.
And still 512k cartridge comes into play here...

As for making a game of this size, well lots of levels, lots of graphics, lots of sounds would really fill the space. The code itself would not..
and then for me this is a problem because making sounds and graphics are not my thing, so I would definitely need help here.

But anyway, I have other projects to finish first

[MacDeath]

Well, 512k ROM (or RAM, thats almost the same...well not exactly the same actually...)


we would need to consider the game differently.

Of course as said, a lot of digitized sounds is an easy way to fill this space... but we have to remember that digisounds are also expensive for the CPU to manage (despite the DMA channels...)

So you cannot put them everywhere at anytime...

Such game would feature a shitton of cinematics of course as it is also an easy way to fill the space.
an overscanned full screen in normal mode is 24K... of course it can be compressed (less Ko but more time), patched with HardSprites (heavier), animated, scrolled and so on.


I think the Orion Prime intro is 128k...actually...


Another way to fill those : lots of different stuff.

You don't have to re-use the same ennemy sprite form one level to another...
Or you can, of course, but because all datas are in RµOM, you have access to all so you don't have to be limited to only 2-3 kind of monsters per levels...

Look at renegade...
Only 2 kind of villains per levels...
What if some levels managed to get 8 different kind of villains ?


Also : no "soft-mirror effect".

Each sprites are doubled to get the left or right version...(or up/down, depending of the tpe of the game)
No more "magical weapon arm change..." each time you turn left-right...

this take more memory but less CPU time : I vote for.

What else...
Different music for each levels of course...

a lot of special events or animation are possible too.
dialogues with bosses and so on.


Have you seen Earthworm Jim on Megadrive

Another funny stuff : you may get a shitton of different Tiles for your levels...
I did some re-tiling in the past.

Being limited to only 128 or 256  8x8tiles per level can actually be very limited...
I wanted to include piece of landscape such as Greeck-roman statues...
the kind of thing that looks good but...
you know 8 tiles per 12 tiles, this makes 96 tiles...

64pix per 96pix...

96 tiles !!! just to get a little statue on the screen...
Well with those 512Ko you may perhaps include a lot of large special one-use-only sceneries in your levels...

And if you do so, you'll see that 512Ko is far from being that much actually.

So IMO, it wouldn't be that difficult to fill 512Ko.

Yes Orion Prime took 4 years to fill the 720Ko Disk...
buty they were'nt numerous and this games feature a lot of original graphics...
Also a lot of minigames...which is also a way to add stuff, but need to get a complete design on it's own, and its own engine too.

A tile based  action game may take a bit less time actually.

[Leonie]

Please take a look at this YouTube-Video of Star Sabre.
It looks jerky, what is the reason?
Made by jealous C64-Freaks?
Insufficient framerate of the video?
A disaster!
A smooth CPC-Shooter looks jerky because of this poor video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04G9pVjPnFA


This video of Star Sabre looks like the "real thing".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX4TDduqOXs&feature=related

[MacDeath]

Made by jealous C64-Freaks?

I don't think so... Mark Hall...is it UKMARKH ?
The same who come often here ?

Are you really a commodork trolling us here, Markh  ?

The reason is simpler : it's actually difficult to get a proper CPC video with emulators (most of time the sound is out of synch...) , nearly impossible to get a decent one from a real CPC too, and even more difficult to get it smooth and good looking on Youtube because of all the compressions Youtube put.


Personnal question : LEONIE, are you really a girl ?

[ukmarkh]

Screw you Leonie... and yes Leonie's a girl 

[Leonie]

Personnal question : LEONIE, are you really a girl ?

I won´t argue that point.
Here I am Woman, here dare it to be.
I take pride in the words: "Ich bin eine Frau"

[Leonie]

I also like the sound effects of Zynaps.
There is almost no silence during the game, you can always hear anything. Not only the sound-fx of the bullets and explosions. There are also some "approach-noises" of the enemies and more.


This could be a good scoring for the new R-Type:
A very good titeltune, nice highscore-music, nerve-splitting-end-of-level-boss-music, and lots of sound effects. And some jingles ("Level Complete", "Game Over"...).
I don´t think that ingame-music is really essential.

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

128KB so that we can have two overscan displays in order to get smooth scrolling?

I don't mind the level data and graphics (and music) being multi-load from disc however.


Will the game be using pre-shifted tile graphics? MODE 1 would require 4x the tiles wouldn't it? That's pretty harsh.

[Leonie]

Concerning music, I think it will depend if the engine allows it properly while being smooth and fast enough.

Perhaps the option to switch off the music may be good.

I don´t like music & SFX to the same time if there are only 3 channels.
Remember Cybernoid (CPC) for example: The music falls into pieces and that sounds awful.
Another example: Ghost´n Goblins (C64). It sounds ridiculous! Each SFX destroys the SIDs swansong.
By the way:
The music from Ghost´n Goblins (CPC) sounds really thick and dramatic (CPC connected to a hifi system). Thanks be to David Whittaker. AY at its best!
The music from Ghost´n Goblins (C64) sounds like an absolute joke.

[fano]

omfg ! godwin point for all 
(from r-type X to WW2 , i must say i am impressed , one of the most impressive i ever seen)