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Street Fighter II CPC

Started by felow, 22:53, 03 July 17

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felow

Hi, is there an official story about why U.S. Gold finally abandoned the CPC conversion of Street Fighter 2? It is really ture they were working on it?

Shaun M. Neary

I'm not so sure they really put much effort into it. The CPC was something that developers either rose to the challenge, or utterly detested. The other 8bit versions were such disasters that I honestly believe that that the CPC version was aborted.


Didn't stop Amstrad Action winding us up for a further two years about it. I phoned US Gold up and asked if there was ever any plans for one. But that was late 1994 and there's been quite a turnover in staff since so they couldn't honestly answer it.


That's my take on it anyway. I'm open to correction though.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

dlfrsilver

U.S.Gold even dared to say that the game took some delay because it was developped by a team of french people (sic!).


Dishonest bastards you mean !


the fact is that they would have done the game as 128k only. In UK, it was mostly a CPC 464 market.... hence the problem.

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: dlfrsilver on 10:42, 04 July 17
the fact is that they would have done the game as 128k only. In UK, it was mostly a CPC 464 market.... hence the problem.

I'm not entirely sure I buy this one either. It didn't stop them with Final Fight, which probably would have used similar sprites to SFII. It was 128k only as well.
I think it would have been a farce anyway. They probably could have made it look good, but speed would probably have been sacrificed for it. But who knows for sure?
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

zeropolis79

Wouldn't surprise me if US Gold led us on the whole time but then again, a lot of software houses were anti-CPC at the time...  a lot of Codemasters didn't come out (but they did on the Spectrum and C64), we never got Robocop 3 - if it couldn't fit on cart, when why not do a version on the normal CPC...

andycadley

Presumably they were planning to just port the Speccy release and, when that got slated in reviews, decided it really wasn't worth the effort.

arnoldemu

I assume that the cpc just didn't make enough money for them at the time and it wasn't even worth porting games. Possibly there was no team who wanted to work on 8-bits anymore because they wanted to work on 16-bit.

It would be nice to know the actual reason rather than guessing.

In the UK the 8-bits seemed to stop fairly quickly. The Speccy and C64 didn't hold on that long either because I think a lot of people were on 16-bits and consoles then. I remember their magazines becoming thin too.

It may have been worth developing and selling it in France but maybe they were not so interested in that market?

My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

dragon

A book about history of u.s gold was released,maybe they speak about It.


Nobody have It?.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-history-of-us-gold/comments

||C|-|E||

Certainly, back in those days I was already playing with a Megadrive. I mean, I was using the Amstrad as a "serious" computer to program my things, try to develop crappy games, type documents and for text adventures but almost all my real gaming was already in the console. The difference was so massive that the 11-12 year old me was unable to find a reason to keep playing with the CPC... I still remember switching from the CPC Golden Axe to the Megadrive version. Man, that was something   :-\ .

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 22:10, 04 July 17
Wouldn't surprise me if US Gold led us on the whole time but then again, a lot of software houses were anti-CPC at the time...  a lot of Codemasters didn't come out (but they did on the Spectrum and C64), we never got Robocop 3 - if it couldn't fit on cart, when why not do a version on the normal CPC...

I don't think it was so much anti-CPC, from the software houses, just that a lot of developers found the CPC quite difficult to work with and found it easier to port over from the Spectrum or something else. It's a real shame when we had people like Dave Perry & Nick Bruty, as well as Richard Aplin who really knew how to get the best out of the machine once they made a little effort.

Quote from: andycadley on 06:17, 05 July 17
Presumably they were planning to just port the Speccy release and, when that got slated in reviews, decided it really wasn't worth the effort.

I wouldn't rule this out in the slightest.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 08:17, 05 July 17
I assume that the cpc just didn't make enough money for them at the time and it wasn't even worth porting games. Possibly there was no team who wanted to work on 8-bits anymore because they wanted to work on 16-bit.

It would be nice to know the actual reason rather than guessing.

In the UK the 8-bits seemed to stop fairly quickly. The Speccy and C64 didn't hold on that long either because I think a lot of people were on 16-bits and consoles then. I remember their magazines becoming thin too.

It may have been worth developing and selling it in France but maybe they were not so interested in that market?

There was definitely an interest in the UK and Ireland for the game, it was a massive hit in the arcades, I actually blame the game for killing the arcade scene because of it's popularity. All the variety in arcades were replaced with multiple SFII machines. It got boring very quickly for arcade fans. But you've hit the nail on the head when it came to the writing being on the wall for the 8bit. Especially as the Megadrive had just dropped and we knew the SNES was on it's way. While the NES' popularity over in the UK and Ireland was skyrocketing in 91 and 92.

Quote from: dragon on 08:30, 05 July 17
A book about history of u.s gold was released,maybe they speak about It.


Nobody have It?.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-history-of-us-gold/comments

They do touch on it. I'll transcribe:Quoted by Simon Haddington:

"Geoff (Brown) would get the licence and then it was a fait accompli and it was over to you then to turn it into something. Really it was a question of who was the cheapest ad who could do it the quickest. It was cash that talked, or timing. It didn't matter about the quality back then. For example, on Street Fighter II there were certain teams who could be used - Creative Materials, Tiertex, Probe - and you'd say we've got to start this and finish it in four weeks. Have you got a team that can do this?

There was a preference to use Tiertex whenever possible because of US Gold having a stake in them. For thisgame Tiertex got the job of producing the Spectrum version and Creative Materials did the rest. Quite honestly US Gold just released stuff with bugs in it, and didn't care because that was Woody's job to cover it and try to get the good reviews even if the game was a pile of crap."

But that's really as far as they got with Street Fighter in the book. 1990-1993 is heavily glossed over as they transition from 8 bit to 16 bit.

Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 09:41, 05 July 17
Certainly, back in those days I was already playing with a Megadrive. I mean, I was using the Amstrad as a "serious" computer to program my things, try to develop crappy games, type documents and for text adventures but almost all my real gaming was already in the console. The difference was so massive that the 11-12 year old me was unable to find a reason to keep playing with the CPC... I still remember switching from the CPC Golden Axe to the Megadrive version. Man, that was something   :-\ .

Yep, and the simple truth of the matter is, the 8bit computer scene was dying at an alarming rate once the NES became a proper contender for the SMS (it took ages for the UK and Ireland to catch the two machines head to head, the Master System had a good two year lead or so), and the Megadrive landing. It was all consoles from there on in. Shops saw this and acted accordingly and the shelves were being slowly cleared to make more room for the ever expanding library for the Nintendo and incoming Megadrive titles.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

Sykobee (Briggsy)

In the UK from 1990, lots of people moved onto the Amiga and the Atari ST for obvious reasons. Even I got a second hand A500 in 1991. The difference was astounding. As soon as one kid got one, everyone had to have one and thus within a year a lot of people had transitioned.


The SNES and Megadrive also went big for the gamers, but the cartridge cost did limit the market. It's one thing paying £20 for an Amiga game, another thing to pay £40-£80 quid for a SNES game. I'm guessing the 18-25 market went big for these.

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:35, 05 July 17
In the UK from 1990, lots of people moved onto the Amiga and the Atari ST for obvious reasons. Even I got a second hand A500 in 1991. The difference was astounding. As soon as one kid got one, everyone had to have one and thus within a year a lot of people had transitioned.


The SNES and Megadrive also went big for the gamers, but the cartridge cost did limit the market. It's one thing paying £20 for an Amiga game, another thing to pay £40-£80 quid for a SNES game. I'm guessing the 18-25 market went big for these.

You're forgetting an important factor in all of this, and I'm sure it was popular in the UK, but game rentals were extremely popular here in Ireland. You could rent a Nintendo game for about £2.50-£3 a week, have it finished in that space of time from constant playing and then go back to your video store and rent another one. So being a console owner was definitely feasible even if you couldn't afford to shell out for the cartridges. A lot of trading/swapping went on then too. Same as the CPC really, only the games weren't as easy to duplicate, but the swapping and renting still happened.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

||C|-|E||

Most of my friends were renting like crazy back in those days. I was one of the few spoiled kids buying the games, but because I got lucky  :) . Actually, it was very common for the people to keep just the games that came with the console plus the odd addition during Christmas, Birthdays and special occasions. It made quite a lot of sense, a Megadrive game was around 10000 pesetas. This is equivalent to 60 euros, and not 60 euros from nowadays, but 60 euros in 1990. That was a lot of money! I still remember when I found Mega Turrican for 3000 pesetas (18 euros) in a big shopping center. I could no believe my eyes and I was begging my parents the whole evening to get it  :laugh:

Shaun M. Neary

I was quite spoilt around Christmas time as well as my birthday falls on January 7th, which is too late to attempt to combine the two.

And Christmas was always compilation time too, so the amount of good shit I was always able to get between December 25th and January 9th that came out on compilation. Got some amazing bargains. Like the following:

Konami Arcade Collection: Hypersports, Mikie, Nemesis, Shaolins Road, Jackal, Yie Ar Kung Fu, Yie Ar King Fu 2, Green Beret (not a peep out of you guys about the flick screen scrolling!), Jail Break and Ping Pong.

Taito Coin-Op Hits: Flying Shark, Rastan, Bubble Bobble, Arkanoid, Arkanoid II, Slap Fight, Legend Of Kage and Renegade.

The In Crowd: Gryzor, Combat School, Crazy Cars, Platoon, Predator, Karnov, Target Renegade and Barbarian.

Frank Brunos Big Box: Bombjack, Ghosts N Goblins, Commando, Battleships, Airwolf, Batty, Frank Brunos Boxing, Saboteur, 1942 and Scooby Doo.

Then you had mates who also got compilations for Christmas too... And the trading started up again. By February, your library just ramped up!

I missed out on the 16bit revolution for quite some time, my social life had been turned up a notch, it was only when I took a break from it years later, I got back into Megadrive gaming.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

||C|-|E||

It is clear that there are priorities in this life... that is why I always kept my social life to a bare minimum, constraining it to the Internet domains and only hanging out with three other gamers from my childhood in real life. Then, after my 20s, there was the occasional girl too and, of course, the mandatory weekend alcoholic blackouts. These were with my same three friends, so we continued speaking about computers, programs and games even drunk. This trend lasted until I was 27. Now that I am 37 I have two or three more friends  :-\

Nich

Quote from: dragon on 08:30, 05 July 17
A book about history of u.s gold was released,maybe they speak about It.

Nobody have It?.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-history-of-us-gold/comments

I have a copy of that book. I don't recall reading anything about the 8-bit versions of Street Fighter II, but it does have a very interesting section about the story behind World Cup Carnival - but that's a completely separate topic... :laugh:

tjohnson

Saw an interview with Sugar and he basically said they lost the market very very quickly almost like overnight, I presume he was referring to the release of the plus and the subsequent failure although he didn't say it in the interview.  Went from being the leader in Europe to zero.

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: Nich on 21:08, 05 July 17
I have a copy of that book. I don't recall reading anything about the 8-bit versions of Street Fighter II, but it does have a very interesting section about the story behind World Cup Carnival - but that's a completely separate topic... :laugh:

It was definitely covered. Page 93. :)
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: tjohnson on 21:51, 05 July 17
Saw an interview with Sugar and he basically said they lost the market very very quickly almost like overnight, I presume he was referring to the release of the plus and the subsequent failure although he didn't say it in the interview.  Went from being the leader in Europe to zero.

I don't think he aimed that specifically about the computers, just his budget electronics business in general. Once the likes of Argos, etc got into that market, he found himself under competition that he really wasn't used to, and he sank as a result.

If it wasn't for providing Sky with set top boxes for years ahead, Sugar would have been financially ruined decades ago.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

Sykobee (Briggsy)

Quote from: tjohnson on 21:51, 05 July 17
Saw an interview with Sugar and he basically said they lost the market very very quickly almost like overnight, I presume he was referring to the release of the plus and the subsequent failure although he didn't say it in the interview.  Went from being the leader in Europe to zero.


Yeah, the Plus range was a misfire - too late, Z80 was too weak.


There should have been a Plus range of computers (the styling was nice), but it shouldn't have been based on the classic CPC, but as a cost-reduction of Amstrad's then-viable PC business. Problem was that Intel didn't price their CPUs cheaply, but there were alternatives. A 10MHz+ NEC V20/V30 CPU, 256KB RAM, better graphics, might have been a goer as long as standard PC games could run on it. V33 or V53 would have been even better. Sure, it's not a 386 but that was too expensive in 1990.


Zilog were a second source of V30 chips - http://cdn.cpu-world.com/CPUs/V30/L_Zilog-Z70116-5DS.jpg

Shaun M. Neary

#20
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:31, 06 July 17

Yeah, the Plus range was a misfire - too late, Z80 was too weak.


There should have been a Plus range of computers (the styling was nice), but it shouldn't have been based on the classic CPC, but as a cost-reduction of Amstrad's then-viable PC business. Problem was that Intel didn't price their CPUs cheaply, but there were alternatives. A 10MHz+ NEC V20/V30 CPU, 256KB RAM, better graphics, might have been a goer as long as standard PC games could run on it. V33 or V53 would have been even better. Sure, it's not a 386 but that was too expensive in 1990.


Zilog were a second source of V30 chips - http://cdn.cpu-world.com/CPUs/V30/L_Zilog-Z70116-5DS.jpg

That would have tanked them just as fast though. You have to remember, PC gaming was at an all time minimum between 1990-1995 until Doom and Hexen came along. The Plus range WOULD have worked a year earlier, but instead Amstrad pushed the Spectrum line, complete with TV advertising. Why, I've no idea because it's not like the Speccy was selling badly, so it didn't need it.

Amstrad's target market was the consumer market. The consumer market was not interested in PC's back then. Like the PCW, the PCW was not aimed for home users. So basing the plus machines on a business model would have finished them just as fast.

I still maintain had Amstrad gotten the plus machines out a year earlier, Developers would have found more interest in how to work the cartridges and it would have been a bigger success by 1990 (not to mention they'd have been able to write Street Fighter II as a cartridge release too!) But by releasing them in 1990, the writing was on the wall for with 8bit computer with the NES finally surfacing in Europe and an increasing software catalogue, and the Megadrive on the horizon. That's the direction the herd was going and the developers were only too eager to head that direction also.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

Sykobee (Briggsy)

Well it wouldn't have been branded as a PC, nor would it have looked like a PC.


but yeah, it probably wouldn't have done much better than the Plus range - any improved performance would have been offset by increased price, and then you had to consider the Amiga.


So indeed, 1 year earlier for the Plus, with an 8MHz Z80, and more RAM, might have been the better alternative history.

roudoudou




The developers would not have done better. They had instructions about the target because of costs (no surprises) -> 64K, floppy/K7
My pronouns are RASM and ACE

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: roudoudou on 13:08, 06 July 17


The developers would not have done better. They had instructions about the target because of costs (no surprises) -> 64K, floppy/K7

Yeah, I keep forgetting that the GX4000 being only 64K, and Street Fighter would definitely not have run on such little RAM.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

Carnivius

Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 13:11, 06 July 17
Yeah, I keep forgetting that the GX4000 being only 64K, and Street Fighter would definitely not have run on such little RAM.

Yeah but cart is instant loading so it can load stuff into memory and delete it when no longer needed and load in something else in no time at all so doesn't need as much RAM to fit everything into all at once.

Personally as much as I love my CPC and I love Street Fighter II, it's never even registered to me as something that should be together even back then with all the hype.  Much of what I like about the game just doesn't translate as well to a CPC's technical specs and general set up.  So I was never that fussed about Amstrad Action wanting to review it as I felt it would have been lousy anyways.

I have a lot respect for the unofficial high quality looking port in development but it's just not a game where I find 8-bit limitations charming and fun enough to want to play it over a more authentic version such as the SNES or the many home-releases of the arcade version over the years.  That port looks like a great achievement and I'll certainly play it from a curious and technical viewpoint but I can't see it being something I'll return to when I have so many other fancier versions of the game and it's sequels.
Favorite CPC games: Count Duckula 3, Oh Mummy Returns, RoboCop Resurrection, Tankbusters Afterlife

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