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The Double Dragon mystery

Started by Xyphoe, 09:16, 03 November 15

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Xyphoe

This old chestnut again! It's been a while!  8)

So yea, we all know now that there's two versions of Double Dragon I.

The 64k version that definitely on tape and budget re-release. But also a 128k version (by Richard Aplin) on disk.

A good article here - Double Dragon Dojo: The Amstrad Mystery

The reason I bring this up again is knowing from the box which version is which. To confuse and make matters worse I've been told that the crappy 64k version was ALSO released on disk!

Now from what I can make out and guessing...

If the disk box has just the Melbourne House logo on it like this - it's the crappy 64k version. ->





If it has Virgin above the Melbourne House logo like the below - it's the good Richard Aplin 128k version! ->





Can anyone who physically owns the game confirm this?




Carnivius

I had the supposedly 'crappy' version as part of The Biz compiltation (with Batman The Caped Crusader, Operation Wolf and R-Type and it was the most played tape out of them) and I played it loads especially with my sister in 2 player and we completed it about 20 times or so I reckon.  Really liked the nicely defined colourful graphics.  Some of the heads could have used more work to make them more distinctive but it all looks clean and readable.   I still play it on WinApe from time to time and speed it up using the emulator's options.   Not saying it's a classic but I've always been really confused by how it seems to get almost Count Duckula 2 level of hatred thrown at it.   

I don't really find the 'good' version that much better when played on emulators.   It's faster but it seems to lack as much of an impact when fighting and the graphics are a total eyesore.  Even when trying to fix the colours (and they REALLY do need fixing) I find the sprites are often crude and sloppy looking with very little shading or care for the Mode 0 resolution.   They're clearly just ported from the 16 bit version with barely any attempts to clean them up.   Even some background imagery such as the VW Beetle billboard on the first level are so much better drawn and shaded on the supposed bad version than on this one.   It seems to be missing the ending from what I remember too where Marian gets lowered down onto the ground and walks over and kisses the winning brother (I was always a little confused by just how my much sister hated losing at that part with our version of the game).

Favorite CPC games: Count Duckula 3, Oh Mummy Returns, RoboCop Resurrection, Tankbusters Afterlife

Dr Tiger Ninestein

I also enjoyed playing the 'crappy' version as a kid back in the day. Used to play it a lot two player when friends came over. I do seem to remember it being excruciatingly slow though. I recently purchased a copy of it so look forward to giving it a try as soon as I can track down another 464 plus. Got to be well over 20 years now since I've played that game.







Xyphoe

Quote from: Carnivac on 09:41, 03 November 15
I had the supposedly 'crappy' version as part of The Biz compiltation (with Batman The Caped Crusader, Operation Wolf and R-Type and it was the most played tape out of them) and I played it loads especially with my sister in 2 player and we completed it about 20 times or so I reckon.  Really liked the nicely defined colourful graphics.  Some of the heads could have used more work to make them more distinctive but it all looks clean and readable.   I still play it on WinApe from time to time and speed it up using the emulator's options.   Not saying it's a classic but I've always been really confused by how it seems to get almost Count Duckula 2 level of hatred thrown at it.   

I don't really find the 'good' version that much better when played on emulators.   It's faster but it seems to lack as much of an impact when fighting and the graphics are a total eyesore.  Even when trying to fix the colours (and they REALLY do need fixing) I find the sprites are often crude and sloppy looking with very little shading or care for the Mode 0 resolution.   They're clearly just ported from the 16 bit version with barely any attempts to clean them up.   Even some background imagery such as the VW Beetle billboard on the first level are so much better drawn and shaded on the supposed bad version than on this one.   It seems to be missing the ending from what I remember too where Marian gets lowered down onto the ground and walks over and kisses the winning brother (I was always a little confused by just how my much sister hated losing at that part with our version of the game).

Heh, I don't mean to upset anyone by saying the David Leitch / 64k version is crappy, because well it is :P In all seriousness - compared to Renegade / Target Renegade / etc it is a crappy beat-em-up, doesn't mean you can't get enjoyment from it. eg for me I enjoy playing ESWAT despite it being one of the lowest reviewed games in Amstrad history! Yea you can speed it up, but so you can with Outrun and it becomes a better conversion, but I don't like doing that - I play games as they were meant to be.

But yea the Richard Aplin 128k version graphics were ripped from the arcade machine to the Atari ST, which was then ripped to the Amstrad version. I suppose it's kind of like a photocopy of a photocopy. Given there were two versions and this was going to be a very low selling disk version I bet there was very little time given to Aplin to do this version. The same process was done on Double Dragon II but the graphics have obviously been re-edited and touched up and are definitely much better. But in this case with Double Dragon, the playability is most important I feel rather than the graphics - it plays a really good beat-em-up and is well matched as an 8-bit version to the coinop it's coming over from. Real Double Dragon die-hards (thinking of a couple of close personal friends here) rate it very highly.

Lastly yes the Aplin version is missing the ending with the girlfriend hugging you. :(

Carnivius

#4
Quote from: Xyphoe on 21:42, 03 November 15
Real Double Dragon die-hards (thinking of a couple of close personal friends here) rate it very highly.

Ah right.  So their word must be the law then if they're 'die-hard'.  Forget my opinion even though it's a game in one of my fave game genres (yet to be honest I didn't really care for any version of Renegade, it's a pretty dull arcade game to begin with).  And comparing it with the Outrun port which showed absolutely zero amount of effort?  Oh come on.  The Aplin Double Dragon might be a bit faster but it still feels off compared to better versions and it's still got among the worst graphics ever seen on the CPC which reeks of 'just didn't give a crap' and for me that really knocks it down a lot.  But hey whatever.  We get told all the time what games we should like and shouldn't like.  If I gotta see one more 'best games ever' chart that lists the godawful, painfully tedious, blurry mess that is Zelda - Ocarina of Time as number one I'll have to torch some place.   All I know is that the slowed but much prettier DD gave me a lot of happy hours of an otherwise pretty bad childhood and is one of the few times my sister and I actually got along (well..except for the last bit with the brothers fighting each other obviously).   Yes it is slow but it's still nowhere near as bad a game as people seem so desperately to make out. And if I gotta put up with folks here heapring praise on games I couldn't bloody stand then it feels like crap when they start insulting the games that actually entertained me but we're stuck with what the majority say is fact, so to hell with everything else...

I'm really tiring of this forum again.  This bit annoys me, sure but there's just been a bad atmosphere lately in certain other threads too and it's making me feel and react in a way that I really don't want to nor need to when going through a rough time myself.  Think it's time for another break from here and probably other sites too.   Take care.
Favorite CPC games: Count Duckula 3, Oh Mummy Returns, RoboCop Resurrection, Tankbusters Afterlife

andycadley

I quite liked both of them, but I suspect the CPC could've done better in both cases. I mostly played the Speccy version as a kid, which is even more derided, but I enjoyed it immensely.  :)

Puresox

#6
sensitive soul , good job its only a game .


Plus the fact we wouldn't be Amstrad Die Hards if we didn't have a high level tolerance to crap games. As Xyphoe says crappy games are still crappy games but we can still enjoy them , if that's what we did or do. Double Dragon is an appalling game and I am sure any 8 bit gamer who doesn't have nostalgia to support his view would look at both of the versions in question and would say that the one is clearly better than the other . The graphics are better in the one but the gameplay surpasses in the other . And always gameplay is the most important factor . Unless you are obsessed with graphics over substance .

ukmarkh

Come back! We like Double Dragon 64K, but just prefer the Aplin efforts  ;D  I played both as a kid and completed 'em.


I think the problem with the first Double Dragon game is that most probably experienced the arcade version before hand, and although the graphics looked really colourful, the pace just completely put most people off. I played Double Dragon 3 right through until the end, sluggish as hell, but there's actually a challenge in there.


Each to their own and for punishment, everyone should list their top ten CPC games  :P [size=78%] [/size]

Shaun M. Neary

#8
I can honestly say that I have *never* seen the full priced 64k version in any stores.
The tape release was always bundled with compilations from around 89. Even AA didn't review it until the comps came out.

Also, I actually can't believe that someone is offended about a comment about 64K that MacDeath isn't responsible for!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

sigh

Quote from: Xyphoe on 09:16, 03 November 15
This old chestnut again! It's been a while!  8)

So yea, we all know now that there's two versions of Double Dragon I.

The 64k version that definitely on tape and budget re-release. But also a 128k version (by Richard Aplin) on disk.

A good article here - Double Dragon Dojo: The Amstrad Mystery

The reason I bring this up again is knowing from the box which version is which. To confuse and make matters worse I've been told that the crappy 64k version was ALSO released on disk!

Now from what I can make out and guessing...

If the disk box has just the Melbourne House logo on it like this - it's the crappy 64k version. ->





If it has Virgin above the Melbourne House logo like the below - it's the good Richard Aplin 128k version! ->





Can anyone who physically owns the game confirm this?

I have a physical copy from the Edition One compilation that I had purchased many months ago. I need to dig it out again although I no longer have a CRT TV to try it on, but I'm sure that it is the 128kb Virgin version.
I never liked the 64kb version and was thoroughly disappointed with it as it was far too slow, but I found the Aplin version a great achievement in regards to converting it from the 16 bit versions.

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: sigh on 02:05, 04 November 15
I have a physical copy from the Edition One compilation that I had purchased many months ago. I need to dig it out again although I no longer have a CRT TV to try it on, but I'm sure that it is the 128kb Virgin version.
I never liked the 64kb version and was thoroughly disappointed with it as it was far too slow, but I found the Aplin version a great achievement in regards to converting it from the 16 bit versions.


Disk or cassette version?
I'd be surprised they'd try to put the game that big on cassette for a compilation that was designed for 64k tape users.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

sigh

Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 02:48, 04 November 15

Disk or cassette version?
I'd be surprised they'd try to put the game that big on cassette for a compilation that was designed for 64k tape users.

It's on disk.

Shaun M. Neary

Quote from: sigh on 03:20, 04 November 15
It's on disk.

There's your answer. DD1 owners tended to be in the minority for 464 owners. So when publishers reissued games for compilations, they wanted to squeeze as much cash out as they can.
So disk owners would have gotten the Aplin version on the comps, while the tape guys got the Leitch version.

Likewise when Double Dragon came out on the Tronix budget label, again, tape version was the Leitch version.
Currently playing on: 2xCPC464, 1xCPC6128, 1x464Plus, 1x6128Plus, 2xGX4000. M4 board, ZMem 1MB and still forever playing Bruce Lee.
No cheats, snapshots or emulation. I play my games as they're intended to be played. What about you?

Dizrythmia

Quote from: Carnivac on 22:13, 03 November 15
If I gotta see one more 'best games ever' chart that lists the godawful, painfully tedious, blurry mess that is Zelda - Ocarina of Time as number one I'll have to torch some place.
I've always been a "Link to the Past" man myself :)

I loved the Aplin version of the game. I received that one for Christmas 1989 & for ages I thought that was the only version of the game. My friend had Double Dragon 2, so we would get together & play them one after the other. I did encounter the other one when I owned my original Amstrad & I remember thinking "this is just diabolical". I was intrigued as to why there were 2 versions of the game & it puzzled me from years until a couple of years ago when I did a bit of research.

Years later the Attic Bug had the Aplin version for order on their website & I bought another copy, replacing the one that went with my original CPC all those years ago.

So yeah, the non-Aplin version isn't my cup of tea. However, if it works for you then that's all that matters :)

AMSDOS

I've never played it, and just wondered if was anything like Street Fighter? I remember competing that game fairly quickly.


I remember Double Dragon 3 being an AA Rave, and it still played slow! I've played Xenon and noticed AA bagged that one for being too slow, hate to think what it was like at the Arcades, though I had to agree with AA on that one (even if the Graphics looked good).
* Using the old Amstrad Languages :D   * with the Firmware :P
* I also like to problem solve code in BASIC :)   * And type-in Type-Ins! :D

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Xyphoe

Quote from: Carnivac on 22:13, 03 November 15
Ah right.  So their word must be the law then if they're 'die-hard'.  Forget my opinion even though it's a game in one of my fave game genres (yet to be honest I didn't really care for any version of Renegade, it's a pretty dull arcade game to begin with).  And comparing it with the Outrun port which showed absolutely zero amount of effort?  Oh come on.  The Aplin Double Dragon might be a bit faster but it still feels off compared to better versions and it's still got among the worst graphics ever seen on the CPC which reeks of 'just didn't give a crap' and for me that really knocks it down a lot.  But hey whatever.  We get told all the time what games we should like and shouldn't like.  If I gotta see one more 'best games ever' chart that lists the godawful, painfully tedious, blurry mess that is Zelda - Ocarina of Time as number one I'll have to torch some place.   All I know is that the slowed but much prettier DD gave me a lot of happy hours of an otherwise pretty bad childhood and is one of the few times my sister and I actually got along (well..except for the last bit with the brothers fighting each other obviously).   Yes it is slow but it's still nowhere near as bad a game as people seem so desperately to make out. And if I gotta put up with folks here heapring praise on games I couldn't bloody stand then it feels like crap when they start insulting the games that actually entertained me but we're stuck with what the majority say is fact, so to hell with everything else...

I'm really tiring of this forum again.  This bit annoys me, sure but there's just been a bad atmosphere lately in certain other threads too and it's making me feel and react in a way that I really don't want to nor need to when going through a rough time myself.  Think it's time for another break from here and probably other sites too.   Take care.

I certainly didn't mean to offend and upset there, I'm really not taking it seriously - I just don't with retro games in general. It's all a bit of lighthearted fun to me. Hence the " :P " smiley in my last post. So if I did upset you then I apologise and I hope things in the 'real world' get better and work out for you.

ps I had the David Leitch version on Tronix budget release. I did play it all the way to the end and gleaned some enjoyment from it, or obviously I would have switched it off after the 1st level probably.

Xyphoe

Quote from: sigh on 02:05, 04 November 15
I have a physical copy from the Edition One compilation that I had purchased many months ago. I need to dig it out again although I no longer have a CRT TV to try it on, but I'm sure that it is the 128kb Virgin version.
I never liked the 64kb version and was thoroughly disappointed with it as it was far too slow, but I found the Aplin version a great achievement in regards to converting it from the 16 bit versions.

Thanks, that's helps confirm things somewhat - I now just need someone to come forward who owns the actual original game, hopefully both versions!

6128

Quote from: Xyphoe on 09:16, 03 November 15
This old chestnut again! It's been a while!  8)

So yea, we all know now that there's two versions of Double Dragon I.

The 64k version that definitely on tape and budget re-release. But also a 128k version (by Richard Aplin) on disk.

A good article here - Double Dragon Dojo: The Amstrad Mystery

The reason I bring this up again is knowing from the box which version is which. To confuse and make matters worse I've been told that the crappy 64k version was ALSO released on disk!

Now from what I can make out and guessing...

If the disk box has just the Melbourne House logo on it like this - it's the crappy 64k version. ->





If it has Virgin above the Melbourne House logo like the below - it's the good Richard Aplin 128k version! ->





Can anyone who physically owns the game confirm this?

I have physical copy of the second (Virgin/Melbourne House logo) in disk format. The game is the 128k version.

Puresox

Quote from: AMSDOS on 06:57, 04 November 15
I've never played it, and just wondered if was anything like Street Fighter? I remember competing that game fairly quickly.


I remember Double Dragon 3 being an AA Rave, and it still played slow! I've played Xenon and noticed AA bagged that one for being too slow, hate to think what it was like at the Arcades, though I had to agree with AA on that one (even if the Graphics looked good).


Double Dragon 3 was an AA Rave!? Wow , they must have had the girls(Software companies) take em out (And probably the rest) for that award!?

Nich

Quote from: AMSDOS on 06:57, 04 November 15
I remember Double Dragon 3 being an AA Rave, and it still played slow! I've played Xenon and noticed AA bagged that one for being too slow
Funnily enough, the CPC versions of Xenon and Double Dragon (the 64K version) were both developed by the same team - Animagic.

Xyphoe

Quote from: 6128 on 14:32, 04 November 15
I have physical copy of the second (Virgin/Melbourne House logo) in disk format. The game is the 128k version.

FANTASTIC!

Cheers for that!!!

So now all we need to establish whether the disk box with JUST the Melbourne House logo is the 64k or 128k version.

ie this one -

http://cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=package&fiche=1150&slot=1&part=A&type=.jpg

Dizrythmia

I owned the Aplin version when I was younger & that had the Virgin logo, & so does the copy I own now that I purchased from the Attic Bug. I'd never seen the Melbourne House version of the box before this post.

Admittedly the 64k version of the game I was playing was from a copied disc back in the day, so I've never seen its box.

I do like how they both claim to be "the ONLY authorized version of the No.1 arcade smash for the home computer!" :)

AMSDOS

Quote from: Puresox on 15:55, 04 November 15

Double Dragon 3 was an AA Rave!? Wow , they must have had the girls(Software companies) take em out (And probably the rest) for that award!?


Was reviewed in Issue 78 and scored 81%


Appears AA never reviewed Double Dragon, even though I recall The Biz Compilation Games getting the AA treatment in Issue 54 & also scoring 81%, though it was back when they simply had not reviewed.


Xenon was reviewed in AA49 and scored 57%
* Using the old Amstrad Languages :D   * with the Firmware :P
* I also like to problem solve code in BASIC :)   * And type-in Type-Ins! :D

Home Computing Weekly Programs
Popular Computing Weekly Programs
Your Computer Programs
Updated Other Program Links on Profile Page (Update April 16/15 phew!)
Programs for Turbo Pascal 3

zeropolis79

 
Quote from: AMSDOS on 10:28, 05 November 15

Was reviewed in Issue 78 and scored 81%


Appears AA never reviewed Double Dragon, even though I recall The Biz Compilation Games getting the AA treatment in Issue 54 & also scoring 81%, though it was back when they simply had not reviewed.


Xenon was reviewed in AA49 and scored 57%

AA just never reviewed Double Dragon on it's own.

In issue 67, they reviewed the Edition One compilation which featured Double Dragon and I noted at the time it wasn't the same looking graphics as my copied tape.. My one had blue text at the bottom of the screen saying CREDIT XX.. I've not played it since the early 1990s but I do remember completing it..

Lazy Dude

Well as a kid I only ever played this game on my mates speccy, so have never checked out the Amstrad version. Guess after all the fuss this thread has made of it I best check it out!!

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