Tron 3X

[MacDeath]

Depends on the company...
IREM is Japanese, they don't even care about us (M.Jackson)


But deesney is the evil mega corpo from any cyberpunk setting.
They will consume your soul, stole your children and rape your wife even if you just happen to get 3 circles together looking vaguely like Mickey...

Concerning the various upgrades available on CPC/PLUS...
Well the PLUS has a Rom Box : the cartridge...

BTW, I got myself an Arduino 1280... this seems it can be a generic extension...
no time to play with it yet.


BTW it is true : before telling "we'll get a 1024K game using HDD and Mouse and ...."

Just define precisely the concept of the game...
and get a proto-engine... the graphics and sounds will come after, as we may know what are needed and the specifications of the engine...


Post edit : because...

The sounds of win... well, no yet...
Click on this link to DL my WIP Derezzed AY version.
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1633.0;attach=1224


CPC friendly version...
Use only 2 colours, so many additionnal effects (scrollers, sprites, rasters) may be added... yet a rough job and not a lot of time put into this to be honest.


and the original Jpg-ed (massacred) version I found on the web....
Nice graphic concept actually..

[TFM]

@Hal: Any help is welcome and very well appreciated.

@MD: Yes, the concept must be worked out preceisely. About a generic machine... there will be some of them. Not the whole game shall look similar.

Soon we start up with the game story and plot.

About doability:
Just to mention an old game... it was a huge project (size of OP probably?) ... it was spanning over four disc sides, it has a huge complex intro, it's able to use expansion RAM or a second CPC as RAM bank (when connected via VN96), it's so complex that nobody ever was able to explore the whole world. It was sold in a box with hand-painted gfx!!!
In the time in which this game was made, there was no help available from the PC like today! They did literally every bit on a real CPC - without any help from emulators or PC based tools.
And now I tell you that this huge mega game was developped by just one coder and just one gfx artist! (Ok, you hear, that they had nobody for sounds ;-)
It's Black Land from the Bollawares! A game worth playing!

http://bollaware.de/

That has been successful done, released, produced and sold!
Today we have a lot of PC tools - like the famous Arkos tracker - that make everything easier.
So we can and will do an even bigger game.

[Xyphoe]

@Xyphoe

Short question: does licence copyrights impact something even it's not commercial (apart from violating patented names)?

Essentially yes, certainly in the job I work I have to deal with lots of 'abuse' complaints about copyright infringement sometimes on the smallest, crappest and definitely non-profit making things.

[Targhan]

>It's Black Land from the Bollawares! A game worth playing!
Not a good example : they were only two people, knowing each other very well, having worked together and on a machine they knew well on plenty of games (more than a dozen !). You can't really compete with that. And the technology they used was quite simple, and not very optimised.


Your project is the opposite of that :
- Plenty of people.
- People you've never worked with.
- People, maybe with no experience on CPC.
- You want to use technology you don't know well (at least, not enough for a huge project).


But this is my last post about that. I wish you luck in your project .


Trg.Aks

[MacDeath]

Don't worry Thargan, you already helped a lot by doing Arkos-tracker...


I would see this project more like a games compilation sharing a common visual theme...(and story...)

You may play each games individually on lower CPC specs...(=128K+Disk... 6128...)
And get them mixed into a single narrative expérience with more advanced configs (+extra cards (my Arduino doing Extra AY or even Blitter stuffs..?...+extra memory and so on...)
Why not ?


You add layers of games depending of your CPC/Plus's configuration.

- Plenty of people.

Not a problem if there is a good overall manager, the Graphics and Sounds are... specialised jobs that may be handled well by many peoples/teams...
You know ? the slaves/labour ?

- People you've never worked with.

perhaps... well, we all speak the same languages : English and CPC specs...
Internet can work well for such kind of project...
The few projects I worked in ... I never Saw anyone...
Rick Dangerous128+ per example ?
MSN is there for this.

- People, maybe with no experience on CPC.

We have also peoples with experience in this... Well we are.. are we not ?
Even a pure noob like me can be usefull...

- You want to use technology you don't know well (at least, not enough for a huge project).

Ok for this one I can't find any argument...

The thing is... why a "FuturOS" specific game ?

An 8 bit machine can't be bothered by an OS when runing a game...
Just get is going as easily as possible...
So yeah, a strong monoblock Assembler core... dedicated to this game...


For what I know of my PC experience :
PC always was a standard with many specs...
Different RAM (512K ? 640 K ? 1024 K ? 2045 K ? more ?), different Sounds (AdLib ? Sound blaster ? worse ?) and Video (CGA ? VGA ? EGA ? 3D cards ? Amstrad PC1512 or even Tandy ?)

from this point, a lot of games had to be "installed...

=Might and Magic 3 (one of my greatest Gaming experience...)
5 discs (or 3 ?) that enabled you to install the game on HDD... (ok not on like this on CPC then...)
But I could then get it working on a CGA, EGA or VGA... with perhaps 3-4 sounds cards/configs too...

So a game (or bindle of games) that need to be "installed" for the config you want... this is where it is at... even on CPC...
just got to manage it for this.

What i wanted to say is... if the game is THAT complex, it is actually like many games at once... so those "many games sequences can be dispatched into many teams...

ORiONPrime was THAT great because... you were almost only 2 for all this... hence the time it needed to make it released...

But you know, teamwork works...
It may be difficult to re-touch codes... but not graphics or even sounds...

And a game featuring many different sequences can actually be seen as a compilation of multiple games...
Orion Prime...Eobocop, Batman the movie, Robocop 2...

OCEAN did this a lot with it's movie franchises... many subgames...
Some Spanish games in 2 parts (Army moves and so on) were actually 2 games in one.

This is good for Teamwork.
So getting all those subgames re-united with a common visual (Tron oriented...), and a RPG to mix with thoses... why not...

[TFM]

- You want to use technology you don't know well (at least, not enough for a huge project).

Well, at least I do know it very, very well. And why not share knowledge and sources?

But this is my last post about that. I wish you luck in your project .

Thank's a lot. That's all that counts 

The thing is... why a "FuturOS" specific game ?

Well, the connection to the OS is probably one of the smallest tasks. So basically it shouldn't matter which OS. To answer your question: Memory Management, drivers for expansion hardware, fastest floppy routines on CPC and so on... it's all there.
But to make a BASIC version at the same time is really no problem, it will just be a bit bigger, since it needs the drivers with it.

What i wanted to say is... if the game is THAT complex, it is actually like many games at once... so those "many games sequences can be dispatched into many teams...

Yeah! That's the point! Everybody contributes just a bit, and you contribute what ever you want.

To get it all fully fledged together is maybe not easy, but can be done - since we keep this in mind from the beginning.

And a game featuring many different sequences can actually be seen as a compilation of multiple games...

Right, and for everybody there will be a very pleasing part, because every part is different.

This is good for Teamwork.
So getting all those subgames re-united with a common visual (Tron oriented...), and a RPG to mix with thoses... why not...

I like your positive way of thinking! That's what we need. Btw: I agree with everything not quoted from you.

As long as we have fun doing it, it will work out. No time pressure, just a project you like to do 

[MacDeath]

So what kind of gameplays would be good to put in such Game ?


perhaps a point : just look how games are made on bigger systems...
Atari ST or 512K Dos PC (CGA...)

This may give some sort of scale to deal with 512K of Stuff...


FuturOS is just meant to be a bundle of Drivers in ROM...ok.
Getting it on PLUS cartridge would be great then.

or getting it Lite version...

The main problem with CPC/PLUS was that the Memory is very limited...
464 (most common) with no good Loading solution (Tape ? lol) and only 64K (the bare minimum) is somewhat...erf...

I never understood why we hadd not more ROM based Games ? I mean basically the extension port is also a Cartridge port...

As too few poeples do have stuff like a HDD... a RAM+ROM based game, plus DiskDrive... is more than enough.
512K ROM + 512+64K RAM...and perhaps 360K (3") or 720K (3"x2 or 3"1/2...) or disk is well a lot of stuff.

The ideal would even to get the internal 3" 2x180K 3"disk working alongside a 3"1/2 external 720K disk.

[fano]

Huge project ! I'd be tempted to think like Targhan.The 512K ram is not a problem for me a long you bundle it with the game.I can not help you but the only advice i could give is , before programmer , graphist or musician , hire a designer , someone able to federate and canalize other too, who owns a large culture and experience in several domains and who will be able to come with his ideas , centralize other and to synthetize them , someone not involved in programming would be better 
Good luck for your project !

[andycadley]

Realistically, are people going to pay the kind of money it'd cost for all that extra hardware just to play one single game? I'm not sure I would and that's even assuming the game turns out to be any good. And tying it to the Tron world, even ignoring possible legal issues, makes it even less likely than a game which is free to create a world that suits the game and hardware better.

Also, and maybe I'm just cynical, starting out with the intention of targetting all that extra hardware screams of a game that will just end up making use of hardware for the sake of it rather than because it's actually necessary or improves the game at all.

[redbox]

I think it's admirable to try and take the CPC to the limit with a game and wish you lots of luck.

But I thought it would be worth pointing out that nobody has yet made a 512kb cartridge game.  This could contain the video, sampled sound etc you want and would have the benefit of really showing off the Plus, which nobody has ever really done with a big game.

Downside is that classic CPC owners wouldn't be able to play it.  But then they already have Orion Prime 

[HAL6128]

As long as we have fun doing it, it will work out. No time pressure, just a project you like to do 

I also agree. The CPC itself ist fun. Why else would so many users care? So, why don't start a new game? Go to the limits with some expansions? ...only memory and interfaces. Z80 core, graphics and sound (apart from some simple but effective resistors called Digiblaster) will be always the same.
Let's start and run an experiment and see how well and far those limits mentioned above are? Maybe find new routines, possibilities, effects or just learn new dimensions of a twentyfive years old computer?
Why not? Have a go! Have fun.

[mr_lou]

We also need people to port it to Gamepark, PSP, Nintendo DS, Amiga, iPhone, Android. 

[TFM]

So what kind of gameplays would be good to put in such Game ?

perhaps a point : just look how games are made on bigger systems...
Atari ST or 512K Dos PC (CGA...)

Ah no, we can do better. Let's go new ways. We can do that.

Realistically, are people going to pay the kind of money it'd cost for all that extra hardware just to play one single game?

The price can be kept very low. It will not be expensive. We can produce hardware probably relatively cheap (we got time until the software is finished). And people who already have some extensions get the game for free then.

Further, hardware is universal, you can use it for a lot of different software.

[TFM]

I also agree. The CPC itself ist fun. Why else would so many users care? So, why don't start a new game? Go to the limits with some expansions? ...only memory and interfaces. Z80 core, graphics and sound (apart from some simple but effective resistors called Digiblaster) will be always the same.
Let's start and run an experiment and see how well and far those limits mentioned above are? Maybe find new routines, possibilities, effects or just learn new dimensions of a twentyfive years old computer?
Why not? Have a go! Have fun.

Yeah! Absolutely!!!

Now, let's think about the story of the game first. It will decide what we get on the screen later on.

Now, let's get some ideas who is still there to play a role...

- Tron: While he was falling down at the end of the movie, he turned from Red to Blue, that means he regenerated from CLUs evil code (probably put in Tron during their fight). Ok, now Tron got two discs, so he could stop that fall and survive. Or he could have made a Light-Jet using his discs. So let's say... Tron is still there.

- CLU: Deresoluted by Kevin Flynn. Maybe he get's recoded by Sam Flynn for some reasons and plays than a good guy???

- Kevin Flynn: He turned into a lightball, it may be possible to get him back.

- Sam Flynn: He picked up the virtual world on a memory chip. So one day he may take a second look at it ... point of start in the virtual world

- Quorra: She is in the real world now. Maybe she really changes everything like promised. .... Point of start in the real world.

Mr. Lou already mentioned some ideas about Sam Flynn getting Encom back (also real world)
And for this they need to build up the cyber world again, that would be the most selling thing in world?

Oh, what's about Siren Gem and Custer??? Did they survive the explosion? Maybe, Custer is usually prepared for a lot of things    (And Gem is nice)


Now, we can share some ideas and then make a story out of it... When the story is finished, the creation of the game will start :-)

Have a great week programs!

[MacDeath]

what's about Siren Gem

Got to have a backup copy somewhere so we can include her ass in Gameplay...

[TFM]

Got to have a backup copy somewhere so we can include her ass in Gameplay...

Absolutely, she's a program, so it shouldn't be hard to give her a second life, maybe with some updates ;-) And with some sisters ;-)))


EDIT: If we have collected enought ideas here, I try to make a kind of script out of it, upload it and anybody can add ideas and sophisticated weird crazyness ;-)

[Xyphoe]

Ignoring 'hardware' discussions for now....

The idea of splitting the project into sub-games does peak my interest and seems a good idea. Games like The Vindicator are a great project and package with level 2 being a top-down shmup and level 3 being a horizontally scrolling platformer/shmup - it's just let down by the first level being too vast and complicated even with a map you can easily get lost by the confusing 'which direction am I now in' blah.

So one team could write left-to-right scrolling platform/shooty thing ... another a puzzle game ... a drive-em-up ... maybe an Operation Wolf type clone and wrapping everything up an adventure game that goes around everything - all loosely based around a theme and story. Obviously you need to define the characters, who they are and what they look like BEFORE starting anything to keep it consistent (you don't want to end up with a "Roland On The...." situation! LOL)

Obviously the weak point is you might get let down by one team who are lazy or don't finish their part.

I'm now having crazy ideas of ... Mojon Twins could contribute the platforming sub game, Fano and TotO could reskin their R-Type version, Targhan can expand on his car racing sub-game in Orion Prime, etc............  OK I'll shut up now 

[HAL6128]

...haven't seen the movie "Legacy" so far. It will start in Germany from 27th of January? Therefore I couldn't reconstruct at the moment the whole plot and those new actors (apart the infos from wiki and so on).

I've read that the main story board of LEGACY is about a father-and-son-drama. The Son (Sam) is looking for his lost father (FLYNN). Achieving this target the main actor (Sam) is deepening into virtual world and finally find his father. Between he experienced lots of adventures. That's - all about - is the whole story in the movie.
Sounds - for the first moment - simple and it's a way to move forward.
Through the rough into details.
Let's go.
(Just go crazy a little bit...)

Maybe we need first an aim for the game? What would we reach? Second we could define a current state where we start. (Or vice versa)? Let's see.

1. first define the aim than second the current state... What should we reach? Develope the ideas above...
1.1 Destroy a rogue in virtual or real world who is threatening the virtual or real world?
> E.g. Sam lost the mentioned memory chip with the virtual world someday or it is stolen by accident and somebody want's to hack it. He put the chip into an interface for data manipulation. What the hacker don't now is the virtual world itself and it's past or its dynamic of life. Maybe there's a rest of evil code remains in a safe RAM address, waits for special signal which comes suddenly through the interface while hacking. Now the evil code breaks out of the memory chip and spreads like a VIRUS to PC of the hacker, or later into INTERNET?
In the meanwhile SAM noticed in real world the loss of his memory chip and ist looking for QUERRY to help him searching. Both has to find the chip because they know of the possibility and danger of abuse both real and virtual world . After some coincidences of circumstances they find the hacker. But it's too late. EVIL CODE has already gone or in real world: the amount of used memory in the chip has decreased. Something missed.
They need both TRON (the Fighter > ARCADE) and CLU (the Thinker > RIDDLES/RPG) who both has to find out what has happen and search and hunt in the virtual world the EVIL CODE before he damages the servers in INTERNET (maybe try to start a war between North and South Corea which could end in a nuclear conflict between China and USA?). EVIL CODE is very week at the beginning but is an artifical intelligent programm with the possibility to reprogram himself. His motivation at first is simple - his just a programm: spread and obtain superiority by all means. He couldn't spread independent at the beginning. But he breaks into different server (e.g. Wikipedia), learns with that informations (TIME could be a important role?) to get stronger and so on. So the set of people a group outside (SAM/QUERRY - real world) and inside (TRON/CLU - virutal world) has to challange different task and riddles or somekind of challanges (again opponents, again time, again skills ...) to stop EVIL CODE.
Could be a mixture between arcade, role play game, click and point or whatever.
1.2 Rescue a person who is near, we love, who is important?
> E.g. SAM who has secretly fallen in love with GEM at the end of the movie wants to rescue her and has to get back in virtual world again? Oneday a casual signal reaches SAM out of the memory chip / virtual world. A cry for help. A tiny signal but a start to convince SAM and QUERRY to get back into virutal world?
1.3 Destroy a machine which is threatening virtual world?
> E.g. whatever...

Maybe it is (or not) a interesting idea in principle to split the story in a real world and a virtual world part where two stories (in the beginning with a different condition) aim together in a focal point at the end. Maybe the two worlds can interact and affect their way mutually. Interchange between real and virtual world can take place via digitized into virtual world or "realized" people into real world, information change (Email, Interface between virtual world (chip) and real world like expansion port or Joysticks with a Game > Grid Bugs, MCP Cone, Tanks, Light Cycle or some new stuff).

Or maybe I just stop now. Do not consider me to go mad

[TFM]

...Obviously the weak point is you might get let down by one team who are lazy or don't finish their part.

Well, if it happens to only one team, then we will perform better than expected. But you have to calculate these things from the beginning. In such a case somebody else can overtake to make that part ... or you just leave it away.

...haven't seen the movie "Legacy" so far. It will start in Germany from 27th of January? Therefore I couldn't reconstruct at the moment the whole plot and those new actors (apart the infos from wiki and so on).

Take a look at the movie, and expect it do be different than be expected ;-)

Thank's a LOT for this long collection of good ideas! After watching the movie you will probably change some small things f.e. Gem - Quorra. But that doesn't matter. Great ideas!