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avatar_Gryzor

CPC BASIC editor 'poor'?

Started by Gryzor, 15:29, 08 February 18

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Gryzor


"...the editor *is* poor, something that was commented on in reviews when the CPC arrived. Consensus was that the editor was a big disappointment for a machine that was launched at the end of the 8-bit era. The Copy key is a workaround to make the line-editor slightly more usable, but line-editors was a thing of the past even in 1984 when the CPC was launched."


from


http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=338736


Was it, really? I get the specific point (especially the scroll buffer...), but I never thought it as 'poor'...

asertus

Quote from: Gryzor on 15:29, 08 February 18
Was it, really? I get the specific point (especially the scroll buffer...), but I never thought it as 'poor'...


What happened is that we were already used to it.., actually, it was my 1st computer, so I had no other experience by then...

Sykobee (Briggsy)


Well, to edit a line, you had to type 'EDIT <line>' rather than just change the code that was there on the screen. Hardly difficult.


That's because the CPC's interface was more of a command shell than an editor.


What's more powerful - a command shell or an editor?

blackdalek

My first computer was a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 2.
The CPC's line editor plus COPY key was lightyears** ahead of the Coco2

(**may be a slight exaggeration, but only marginally)
CPC6128 modded with ABBA switch. External 5.25" floppy drive with side switch and Multiface 2. Now also sporting a joystick splitter and M4 WiFi board.

Gryzor

Well, no matter how good the Coco2's editor was, how did people even program that thing with that resolution -and, if I'm not mistaken, caps only?

EgoTrip

Compared to the main competition at the time, it certainly wasn't poor. Poor is the ZX Spectrum's clumsy interface of pressing a single key for each keyword and being a complete chore to type in anything. Poor is the C64's atrocious system. Also, having to use the COPY key, or type EDIT <line> to edit a line is a cleaner and safer way to edit.

I would put the CPC's BASIC editor slightly below the BBC's, which it copied the copy cursor from, and both machines had a high res text mode (2 on CPC) as well, although the BBC's had more rows. I cannot compare it to the Atari's editor as I never used that.

blackdalek

Quote from: Gryzor on 17:37, 10 February 18
Well, no matter how good the Coco2's editor was, how did people even program that thing with that resolution -and, if I'm not mistaken, caps only?
The point I was trying to make was that the Coco was absolutely abysmal in comparison to the CPC ;) not good.

If I remember, I think you could not even see the full line you were editing at the time, you had to reveal it character by character as your cursor progressed along the line.

Yes, the system font was all caps. Lower case was represented by inverted pen/paper colours.
Although there was actually lowercase characters in the font, I think there was some poke you had to do to enable them. Why they chose to have the lowercase characters disabled by default is beyond anyone's understanding.
CPC6128 modded with ABBA switch. External 5.25" floppy drive with side switch and Multiface 2. Now also sporting a joystick splitter and M4 WiFi board.

robcfg

The MC6847 internal character rom has only uppercase letters, that's the way it works.


You could always add an external character rom (as in the spanish Dragon 200-E) and have lowercase letters too at the expense of inverse video. You could enable internal or external character roms by poking into a certain memory address.

blackdalek

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Color_Computer#Color_Computer_2_(1983%E2%80%931986)Internally this model was redesigned to use the enhanced VDG, the MC6847T1. This enhanced VDG allowed the use of lower case characters and the ability to change the text screen border color. For compatibility reasons neither of these features were used and were not enabled in BASIC, however the resourceful user could enable them by setting certain memory registers.

Mine must have been one of these later models with the MC6847T1 as it required no additional ROMs to be added to enable the lowercase. According to this, the lowercase was disabled for compatibility with earlier versions, so that answers that question.
CPC6128 modded with ABBA switch. External 5.25" floppy drive with side switch and Multiface 2. Now also sporting a joystick splitter and M4 WiFi board.

||C|-|E||

I always liked it a lot, I find it very clear and organized. Actually, I found myself using GW Basic almost in the same way when I was taught it in the school with a PC  :D

Cholo

Certainly no worse than the other 8bit basic editors, definately felt like a upgrade from the zx81 basic. Then again inventing true opgrades for a editor of a strict line language like Basic really is rescticted. I mean you can add hardware like a mouse & do fansy copy&paste & hotkeys .. but you still need to write the actual lines yourself.


I think the first time i felt i saw a genuine big upgrade to program line editor was when i saw my first Html WYSIWYG editor. Spending 5 seconds of drawing a separator and have the editor instantly spit out 20 lines of code for the separator .. now THAT was a upgrade i could have used 20 years before  ;D

AMSDOS


::)  I don't get that coming from an Atari Forum. Rules from the BASIC 10-Liners contest state the Authorised BASIC dialect has to be line orientated. Has the Atari got something else the Amstrad Lacks? If so the fundamental problem is program needs to be 10-Lines. I did send in one which was within 10-Lines which was accepted though.


I was also using GW-BASIC, which was being updated well after Locomotive BASIC too (as late at 1988!)
* Using the old Amstrad Languages :D   * with the Firmware :P
* I also like to problem solve code in BASIC :)   * And type-in Type-Ins! :D

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skylas

Quote from: EgoTrip on 19:46, 10 February 18
Also, having to use the COPY key, or type EDIT <line> to edit a line is a cleaner and safer way to edit.
I totally agree!
The only thing i wish i could use is being able to search in all lines via <cntrl+F>, but this was a different era!
Web: https://amstradsakis.blogspot.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AmstradSakis
My programs (only BASIC):
RETRO-LOADSHEET ON AMSTRAD CPC!
PENALTY KICKS!
CAPITAL QUIZ!
CAPITAL QUIZ 2! (Reverse edition)
HEADS OR TAILS (ΚΟΡΩΝΑ/ΓΡΑΜΜΑΤΑ)
HEART CHASER 1,2,3!
BARBOUTI!
STROOPIE!
BUDRUMI!
ART WAR!
BATTLE OF LENINGRAD!
AMSTABOO!
RODOLFO SKYLARRIENTE 1 and 2!

Zoe Robinson

Oh man, what I wouldn't give for a Find & Replace function in CPC BASIC! :D

mr_lou

I remember typing in my very first BASIC program (of my own) on my grandmothers CPC464, consisting of a lot of identical FOR loops.

Then discovering years later that the CPC BASIC editor has a COPY function I could have used..........

The COPY function alone makes the CPC the best BASIC editor of them all in my opinion.  :)

AMSDOS

I used to enjoy the way those Speedlock games would load the screen line by line and back in the day I wrote something in BASIC that was like 10Kb big, but the other night I came up with this little program  :D


10 MODE 0:INK 14,9:INK 15,11
20 DEFINT a-z
30 DEF FNscreen=&C000+(y*&800)+seg
40 blk=0:seg=0
50 WHILE blk<>25
60   FOR y=0 TO 7
70     FOR x=0 TO 79
80       POKE FNscreen+x,INT(RND*256)
90     NEXT x
100  NEXT y
110  seg=seg+&50
120  blk=blk+1
130 WEND
140 CALL &BB18:CALL &BC02:MODE 2
* Using the old Amstrad Languages :D   * with the Firmware :P
* I also like to problem solve code in BASIC :)   * And type-in Type-Ins! :D

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Your Computer Programs
Updated Other Program Links on Profile Page (Update April 16/15 phew!)
Programs for Turbo Pascal 3

VincentGR

The editor is fine, although is easier just to place the cursor to edit a line i.e on a C64 but if you make a mistake and press enter you must re-type the whole thing again.
The copy key is fantastic.
The only problem that bothered me is that I couldn't scroll back to see the code but list followed by ESC and edit command was enough.


Not to mention the God mode 2...

||C|-|E||

Funnily enough, I have never used the COPY key in my whole life  :picard: Not that it matters anymore in these cross-compiling times, but still...

blackdalek

The second "shifted" cursor and COPY key is one of my favourite features of the CPC, and one which I use regularly while on the machine. You can get used to using it and start to wish it was there when you move to a different system. I find it easier and more precise than having to click and drag a mouse or touch interface.
CPC6128 modded with ABBA switch. External 5.25" floppy drive with side switch and Multiface 2. Now also sporting a joystick splitter and M4 WiFi board.

remax

Quote from: blackdalek on 14:21, 18 April 18
The second "shifted" cursor and COPY key is one of my favourite features of the CPC, and one which I use regularly while on the machine. You can get used to using it and start to wish it was there when you move to a different system. I find it easier and more precise than having to click and drag a mouse or touch interface.


It's really missing on console mode on a lot of systems.
Brain Radioactivity

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