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General Category => General Discussion - Introductions => Topic started by: Novabug on 01:33, 02 February 19

Title: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Novabug on 01:33, 02 February 19
Hey all CPC brothers and sisters


Doing research for a planned video, maybe even 2, looking at the times an Amstrad port of a game kicked the backside of it's Speccy and C64 counterparts. I have a load in mind, but would love to here your thoughts.


It needs to be cut and dry also. For example, Chase HQ totally defeats the C64's Chase HQ, but not the Speccys version. Operation Wolf is similar situation.


It will be interesting to hear your suggestions. looking to find at least 11 for each system respectively.


Cheers all


Bug out
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: ervin on 05:37, 02 February 19
This sounds like a very interesting project!

The first game that comes to mind is Spindizzy.

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Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: ervin on 07:27, 02 February 19
Sorcery.

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Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: mr_lou on 09:12, 02 February 19
The first game that comes to mind is Spindizzy.

Spindizzy is awesome, but I don't see the CPC version standing out compared to the C64 version?
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: LambdaMikel on 10:45, 02 February 19
Elite
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: TotO on 11:31, 02 February 19
Renegade
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Dagger on 11:40, 02 February 19
Thought the CPC version of Matchday II was the best. C64 version played faster but had a few bugs and the sound effects were like an aviary with raspberry effects
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Otto on 12:27, 02 February 19
Spindizzy is awesome, but I don't see the CPC version standing out compared to the C64 version?

Spindizzy on the CPC had 320x200 pixels with 4 colors, whereas the C64 had only 160x200 pixels with 4 colors as so often: https://www.mobygames.com/game/spindizzy/screenshots (https://www.mobygames.com/game/spindizzy/screenshots)
 
That's because the CPC had twice the video memory amount of the C64, and hence allowing either twice the pixel resolution, or twice respectively four times as many colours, which makes a huge difference in games using fine pixel art like with static isometric games and vector games (except for Cholo which was a lame port from C64 to CPC).
(It's different with games which used the C64's hardware background scrolling and hardware sprites.)
 
So in addition to the already named games by other posters:
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 13:46, 02 February 19

  • Cauldron: https://mobygames.com/game/cauldron/screenshots (https://mobygames.com/game/cauldron/screenshots)
  • Cauldron II: https://mobygames.com/game/cauldron-ii-the-pumpkin-strikes-back/screenshots (https://mobygames.com/game/cauldron-ii-the-pumpkin-strikes-back/screenshots)
  • … and many more.


You REALLY putting CPC Cauldron and Cauldron 2 ahead of the C64 versions? With their 50fps sprites?


And the arguments about video memory don't tell the full story. No point having a load of video memory if the poor old Z80 can't shift it around speedily. Whereas the 64 had sprites. So the CPC has an advantage on static screens but as soon as you need to move game sprites around.....


I'm a huge CPC fanboy but I'm not blind to our machines shortcomings.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 13:49, 02 February 19
Good examples of games that work better on the CPC than the 64 are the Freescape games. The Speccy version are marginally quicker but lack the colour.


WEC Le Mans another example. People think the CPC version is a Speccy port. It might share some code but the sprites are different and it has a different feel. C64 version is TERRIBLE. I looked at it a while ago.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5KeS-ssyiQ
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: VincentGR on 14:16, 02 February 19
Robocop
Ikari Warriors
Shinobi (slower but better)
Double Dragon (slower but better)
Title: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Maniac on 14:50, 02 February 19
Gryzor looks so much better than the C64 and Spectrum versions. Haven’t played anything other than CPC version though.

For me often the thing that let the CPC versions down (other than a poor Speccy port) was a lack of sound or music which was so often better on the C64.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Otto on 15:28, 02 February 19
And the arguments about video memory don't tell the full story. No point having a load of video memory if the poor old Z80 can't shift it around speedily. Whereas the 64 had sprites. So the CPC has an advantage on static screens but as soon as you need to move game sprites around.....

Like I wrote :
That's because the CPC had twice the video memory amount of the C64, and hence allowing either twice the pixel resolution, or twice respectively four times as many colours, which makes a huge difference in games using fine pixel art like with static isometric games and vector games (except for Cholo which was a lame port from C64 to CPC).
(It's different with games which used the C64's hardware background scrolling and hardware sprites.)

That's why my short list of superior CPC games is mainly static-background / isometric games plus vector graphic games, and this would include your listed Freescape vector games. Also who could forget these Starfox and Starstrike-II games with fast filled vector graphics.

The smoothness of CPC vector graphics games compared to C64, despite the CPC's double sized video memory with double sized resolution, was possible because the CPC's "poor old Z80" run four times as fast as the C64's CPU. Which was handy for all the complex vector maths behind the graphics, and concerning the pure bit-shifting for wireframe or filled polygons still twice as fast.
Roughly.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Carnivius on 15:49, 02 February 19
Robocop
Nah, RoboCop's pretty nice on Spectrum too. Better detail, less colour and overall the same game as CPC.   Never liked the very different C64 version much though.
Weird thing about some scrolling games like Scooby & Scrappy Doo and Turbo the Tortoise where they scroll smoother and have bigger game screen areas on the C64 but they just don't feel as good and as fun as the jerkier smaller screen versions on the CPC and Spectrum.   To me anyways.  Dunno why that is. 
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: VincentGR on 16:08, 02 February 19
Robocop and Ikari are the same game on zx/cpc but the colors outmatch the resolution, I think.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: HAL 6128 on 17:21, 02 February 19
Renegade, Gryzor, R-Type (Remake).
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 20:01, 02 February 19

The smoothness of CPC vector graphics games compared to C64, despite the CPC's double sized video memory with double sized resolution, was possible because the CPC's "poor old Z80" run four times as fast as the C64's CPU. Which was handy for all the complex vector maths behind the graphics, and concerning the pure bit-shifting for wireframe or filled polygons still twice as fast.
Roughly.


It is faster but certainly not 4 times faster. From memory, once you dig down into it, the raw computational power is just under that of a Z80 due to the way the fetch instructions work. Basically the Z80 is faster but it takes more clock cycles to do things than the 6502.


Then you get to Elite on the BBC on a 2MHz 6502 which kicks every other 8 bit version into the grass in terms of speed.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 20:03, 02 February 19
Most of the Pickford Brothers games end up being converted to the C64 by total idiots. 180 doesn't play very well Feud is basically broken, Zub just has something a bit wrong about it. Although all the Spectrum versions stand up well (and MSX Feud is superb as it has the CPC's music).


Space Harrier is a car crash on the 64 and the Speccy versions isn't much cop either. Lazy Elite refused to do a 128 version so no music which really kills the game stone dead.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 20:03, 02 February 19
Renegade, Gryzor, R-Type (Remake).


The remake is an unfair comparison. Modern tools and techniques.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Fessor on 20:22, 02 February 19
Donkey Kong, Arkanoid 1+2, Trantor
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: HAL 6128 on 20:35, 02 February 19

The remake is an unfair comparison. Modern tools and techniques.
the core is oldschool... :)
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: VincentGR on 20:41, 02 February 19
Donkey Kong, Arkanoid 1+2, Trantor


+1
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: DanyPPC on 21:47, 02 February 19
1943
Dragonninja
Flying Shark
Gun Smoke



Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Zoe Robinson on 16:21, 03 February 19
Lemmings.


The C64 version has muted colours and a tiny game area compared to the size of its menu; which makes it feel like you're playing the game through a tube. The ZX Spectrum version is a monochrome nightmare. The CPC version is beautiful.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: GUNHED on 16:27, 03 February 19
Starglider
Starfox
Trantor


and of course Chase HQ  ;D
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: MaV on 21:51, 04 February 19
Harvey Headbanger!
It's better than the monochrome Spectrum version, and the C64 version uses wide pixels, so it looks much blockier.
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: HAL 6128 on 22:49, 04 February 19
Jack the Nipper
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: trocoloco on 11:12, 06 February 19
UN Squadron, North & South, P-47 Thunderbolt


PD. Also Trailblazer, all far better in IMO
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: chinnyhill10 on 00:51, 10 February 19
Jack the Nipper


Really?
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: HAL 6128 on 19:52, 10 February 19
For the moment yes. (There's no idea what "FAR SUPERIOR" means, isn't it?)
Title: Re: Games that were FAR superior on the CPC than on the C64/Speccy! Suggestions?
Post by: Gryzor on 13:55, 12 February 19
What, popcorn over?