Should I buy a 664?

[ProfessorPike]

I REALLY want one, I have a 6128 already.


I've always liked them, from when I used to look at them ages 5 in Amstrad computer user!


I realise they are worth a fair bit too.


It'd probably be FAR more sensible to find another 6128 though!


Thoughts?

[llopis]

I'm on the same boat! I was able to ignore the 664 until recently, when I found out its keyboard is like the "tall keys" keyboard of the 464, which I absolutely love.


Prices are ridiculous, so I'm hoping someone can jump in on this thread and convince me not to buy one :-)

[Bryce]

If you do buy one, then calculate into the price that you will also need to buy a new keyboard membrane from RWAP, because the chances of the membrane being damaged is about 96%.

Oh, and to answer your question: Yes.

Bryce.

[llopis]

If you do buy one, then calculate into the price that you will also need to buy a new keyboard membrane from RWAP, because the chances of the membrane being damaged is about 96%.

Really?? Were the membranes a different system than the 464 or 6128 ones? Because I haven't seen one of those fail yet.

[tjohnson]

I remember seeing the 664 in comet in staines as a kid and liking the style.  My dad bought a 6128 for himself though as we kids had completely commindeared the 464.
Moving to now, buy one if you want, pay your monies, but as you have said practically you already have a better machine.

[LambdaMikel]

I'm on the same boat! I was able to ignore the 664 until recently, when I found out its keyboard is like the "tall keys" keyboard of the 464, which I absolutely love.


Prices are ridiculous, so I'm hoping someone can jump in on this thread and convince me not to buy one :-)

Not quite. The 664 has a 6128 style membrane keyboard. Nothing compares to the first tall keyboard on the 464, which had real mechanical switches. For that reason, the 464 tall keyboards don't have any of the problems that 664 and 6128 are suffering from (membrane related).

[llopis]

Not quite. The 664 has a 6128 style membrane keyboard. Nothing compares to the first tall keyboard on the 464, which had real mechanical switches. For that reason, the 464 tall keyboards don't have any of the problems that 664 and 6128 are suffering from (membrane related).

Aha! OK, you've convinced me the 664 isn't for me then. I was hoping it would be a 464 tall keys with disk. Although I suppose I can always do that with my 464 + DDI interface (and a RAM expansion to boot).
Thanks! :-)

[LambdaMikel]

... that should not discourage you from buying one though 
I love my 664, despite the inferiour keyboard. And you can get replacement membranes from SellMyRetro if it should be necessary.
But it IS pricey for sure.

[TotO]

The 6128 do not suffer to the 664 membrane problem as it is not the same plug system.

- On the 664, you have a kind of "perpendicular lock" that cut the tracks from the first time you insert it.
- On the 6128, you have a "parallel lock" (like on Amiga, ...) that not damage it if you don't bend anything.

[LambdaMikel]

The 6128 do not suffer to the 664 membrane problem as it is not the same plug system.

- On the 664, you have a kind of "perpendicular lock" that cut the tracks from the first time you insert it.
- On the 6128, you have a "parallel lock" (like on Amiga, ...) that not damage it if you don't bend anything.

Correct, but I had at least 2 6128 which suffered from membrane problems. So the keyboard is not as reliable as an old style 464 one.

[TotO]

1- I have never seen a 664 without a membrane problem after only 10 years (around 10 systems)
2- I have seen only two 6128 with a membrane problem after 30 years (around 100 systems)

1- around 100% (may be 96% like Bryce said ^^) of 664 have a membrane problem. It is a rare system and a new membrane do not fix that in the time.
2- around 2% (1% by opening it XD) of the 6128 have a membrane problem. It is a common system (they sold a million) and it may be fixed using spare parts. 

1- the 664 is not a reliable system looking that
2- the 6128 is a reliable system looking that

The CPC 464 had its problems, the CPC 6128 too... The CPC 664, both and more! 

[LambdaMikel]

1- I have never seen a 664 without a membrane problem after only 10 years (around 10 systems)
2- I have seen only two 6128 with a membrane problem after 30 years (around 100 systems)

1- around 100% (may be 96% like Bryce said ^^) of 664 have a membrane problem. It is a rare system and a new membrane do not fix that in the time.
2- around 2% (1% by opening it XD) of the 6128 have a membrane problem. It is a common system (they sold a million) and it may be fixed using spare parts. 

1- the 664 is not a reliable system looking that
2- the 6128 is a reliable system looking that

The CPC 464 had its problems, the CPC 6128 too... The CPC 664, both and more! 

Good statistics, thanks for sharing!

[Bryce]

1- I have never seen a 664 without a membrane problem after only 10 years (around 10 systems)
2- I have seen only two 6128 with a membrane problem after 30 years (around 100 systems)

1- around 100% (may be 96% like Bryce said ^^) of 664 have a membrane problem. It is a rare system and a new membrane do not fix that in the time.
2- around 2% (1% by opening it XD) of the 6128 have a membrane problem. It is a common system (they sold a million) and it may be fixed using spare parts. 

1- the 664 is not a reliable system looking that
2- the 6128 is a reliable system looking that

The CPC 464 had its problems, the CPC 6128 too... The CPC 664, both and more! 

I gave it 96% because the other 4% were the ones where the membrane has already been replaced

Bryce.

[TotO]

I gave it 96% because the other 4% were the ones where the membrane has already been replaced

And... Does it work today? 

[Bryce]

I replaced the membrane in my 664 about three years ago. The computer was never opened and rarely used since then, so I assume it still works. Maybe I should check again?

Bryce.

[TotO]

I replaced the membrane in my 664 about three years ago. The computer was never opened and rarely used since then, so I assume it still works. Maybe I should check again?

While you do not remove the cardboard box, the cat is not dead! 

[Bryce]

So it's a Schroedingers membrane?

Bryce.

[TotO]

I don't see any other explanation! 

[Bryce]

Now I'm afraid to check. As long as I don't check, everything could theoretically be ok.

Bryce.

[TotO]

Oups, I'm sorry! 

If the 664 was not moved a lot (vibrations), it must work again. Just avoid to open it.
With all my hardwares and softwares, it is a perpetual fear when not used since many years. May be I will have better to sell thinks with value to pay my peace!

[Bryce]

I just recently ordered some ZX Spectrum Membranes from RWAP, maybe I should have ordered an extra 664 membrane too.

Bryce.

[TotO]

As I remember, the problem is those membrane are carbon made and finally breakable, compared to industrial one.
When it is plugged to the 664 keyboard connector, a cut is done and the connection already start to be week... So, if it work do not remove it else it shoul fail the next time.
Sadly, it is really expensive today to produce a flexible board with this dimensions... May be a day!!! ^^

[Fessor]

https://www.breadbox64.com/blog/c64-keyboard-prototype/
https://www.breadbox64.com/blog/the-mechboard64/
For the CPC one would not get enough customers for such project(?)

[TotO]

I have already though about that, but... The keyboard problem is related to a rare CPC (664), so it is not really viable.

[Bryce]

I have already though about that, but... The keyboard problem is related to a rare CPC (664), so it is not really viable.

Unless you could do some really clever routing so that the one board would work in all CPC variants?

Bryce.