CPCWiki forum

General Category => NC100, NC200, PCW, PDA600 - the rest of the Family! => Topic started by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 00:39, 05 November 14

Title: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 00:39, 05 November 14

By Alan Cox of Linux Kernel fame.


"FUZIX is a fusion of various elements from the assorted UZI forks and branches beaten together into some kind of semi-coherent platform and then extended from V7 to somewhere in the SYS3 to SYS5.x world with bits of POSIX thrown in for good measure. Various learnings and tricks from ELKS and from OMU also got blended in"


The real hardware test platform is an Amstrad NC100!


EtchedPixels/FUZIX · GitHub (https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX)
https://plus.google.com/+AlanCoxLinux/posts/a2jAP7Pz1gj (https://plus.google.com/+AlanCoxLinux/posts/a2jAP7Pz1gj)



Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Jckf on 00:54, 05 November 14
I saw the guys on IRC discuss this the other day, and although it sounds cool I cannot help but think that perhaps it will be abandoned soon just like so many other OS projects. I'll be excited once I can run it on my own CPC without much hassle though ;)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: CraigsBar on 09:09, 05 November 14
Pcw first please. :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 10:45, 05 November 14
The CPC is not a good candidate for it. Fuzix requires 32K memory mapping to run in a good way, otherwise you will have either no multitasking or only very small apps. With a Vortex memory expansion it would probably work, but these are not very common. So yes, a PCW port could be more realistic.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: robcfg on 10:54, 05 November 14
A NC100 with Unix... Sure it was worth waiting!  8)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Gryzor on 20:58, 08 November 14
Wow. But you got to think why not the NC200?
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:37, 08 November 14
I guess he had access to an NC100 and not an NC200...?
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 02:02, 09 November 14
Probably the NC100 has a better availability, and the difference between the NC100 and NC200 is only the double display and the floppy disc. So nothing serious. Anyway currently he is working on the MSX version... :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 03:17, 09 November 14
NC200 and PCW code is there... looks as though PCW works in Joyce (but untested on really hardware?), and NC200 should also be sort of working
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: CraigsBar on 10:43, 09 November 14
NC200 and PCW code is there... looks as though PCW works in Joyce (but untested on really hardware?), and NC200 should also be sort of working
Since I have not put my pcw away yet. I think I'll test this sometime soon.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Trebmint on 11:02, 09 November 14
Are there any images or videos of this working? I don't even know if this is a graphical OS, or just some command line thing... the whole Unix / Linux thing floats over my head as I submitted to the evil mircosoft years ago.


Perhaps we should have a Harry Hill style fight-out between Fuzix, SymbOs and FutureOs :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Poliander on 11:15, 09 November 14
...from Alan Cox's G+ account:

Q: Hmm, 40K, a bit big to fit in a Beeb B without using a bit of banking; how much of that needs to be in the address space at once?

A.C.: With userspace code executing not a lot (just some entry points and small bits of common code), in kernel space if your tools could do it then you could certainly bank the code but not so easily the constants and you'd need the data mapped always really. I do want to sort the sdcc linker out as mapping it into 16K banked ROMs is a must really for spectrum 128, Amstrad CPC etc too
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 14:08, 09 November 14
Are there any images or videos of this working? I don't even know if this is a graphical OS, or just some command line thing... the whole Unix / Linux thing floats over my head as I submitted to the evil mircosoft years ago.


I havent seen any screenshots.  Were there some MSX ones? It is a command line only OS, basically like a Linux/unix command prompt. There's nothing stopping graphical applications being written for it, but there is no kind of graphics abstraction like in symbos, just text mode abstraction AFAIK.


I'm trying to get a memory card to give this a go on my NC100. I also (by chance) got my PCWs out yesterday as I'm having a clear out, but I don't know if I'll get time to compile and test it today. When I do I'll take some pictures if none are about already.


EDIT: there are some MSX screenshots here: https://plus.google.com/+AlanCoxLinux/posts (https://plus.google.com/+AlanCoxLinux/posts)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Trebmint on 14:56, 09 November 14
Oh, an ugly command line OS... that's something from the 80's that IMHO should stay there. I must be missing something since everyone seems excited?
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Poliander on 15:03, 09 November 14
Oh, an ugly command line OS... that's something from the 80's that IMHO should stay there. I must be missing something since everyone seems excited?

Running an unix-like OS with a somewhat familiar environment on a CPC is actually a dream coming true (for me). And even Mac OS has a "unixoid" fundament. It would be most interesting if additional hardware would get supported on OS-level, e.g. PlayCity, serial I/O adapters, (GFX cards? *ducks*) and so on, accessible through standardized libraries...
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: steve on 15:13, 09 November 14
I do not understand the attraction of getting an operating system running on machines of widely differing capabilities, unix runs on powerful hardware, what software is there that will run on the CPC?
If you want a command line, use CP/M at least we know we can get a lot of software that is designed for 8-bit hardware.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Trebmint on 15:19, 09 November 14
Running an unix-like OS with a somewhat familiar environment on a CPC is actually a dream coming true (for me). And even Mac OS has a "unixoid" fundament. It would be most interesting if additional hardware would get supported on OS-level, e.g. PlayCity, serial I/O adapters, (GFX cards? *ducks*) and so on, accessible through standardized libraries...
I guess I'm biased as I've written a number of things for it, but doesn't symbos offer all this and a load more already? Plus it looks pretty, and is now usable on 4 different machines. Perhaps its just I recall the olden days when my head used to spin as I was expected to install linkers, compilers and modify bat files just so I could get an app to run. I like Graphical UI's :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 16:08, 09 November 14
Aside from being a curiosity I think a lot of the appeal is that you should be able to compile standard posix/unix software to it pretty easily, and having unix there does a lot of things for you if you are a coder. Familiarity is also key - it is a familiar, multi-tasking environment for development and use - and if you know unix reasonably well then the unix command line and shell utilities are a million miles beyond CP/M or AMSDOS, and you can also get up to speed coding very quickly. I'd certainly welcome a unix environment, a nice editor, and a good terminal emulator. It's also open source so anyone can add whatever they like to it.


However, for the average user this probably adds up to very little - you probably wont be able to launch pre-existing software for your machine from it, and IMHO symbos is a much greater achievement. I see this as something awesome especially for the NC100 - but it remains to be seen if any useful software can actually run on it.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 16:10, 09 November 14
It would be cool if symbos had some kind of posix compatibility and standard shell utilities btw. But I guess this is something a 3rd party could do at some point (like cygwin for symbos).
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 00:38, 10 November 14

Perhaps we should have a Harry Hill style fight-out between Fuzix, SymbOs and FutureOS :)

 8)

How would this look like?


Oh, an ugly command line OS... that's something from the 80's that IMHO should stay there. I must be missing something since everyone seems excited?

No offense, but isn't that a pretty superficial look?
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 00:47, 10 November 14

I do not understand the attraction of getting an operating system running on machines of widely differing capabilities, unix runs on powerful hardware, what software is there that will run on the CPC?

You got a point there. An OS which runs on different computers is always forced to loose power to stay compatible to everything.
The perfect OS for a computer has a monolithic architecture and uses the particular strength of the computer. So everything can implemented in perfection. CLU would like it.  ;)



If you want a command line, use CP/M at least we know we can get a lot of software that is designed for 8-bit hardware.

Right, and with Z3Plus the CPC's CP/M does provide a lot of unix stuff. People just don't know it, because they are no interested.


Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Trebmint on 02:37, 10 November 14
No offense, but isn't that a pretty superficial look?
I dont really see how it can be classsed as superficial. GUI's aren't just asthetic, they are functional and improve use by ease of understanding and speed. You would have a point if the competition on the CPC like FutureOs and Symbos were just pretty interfaces and had less ability, but they dont. They do the same and more, and given they are written in z80 they do it faster too.
Im obviously biased as I code things for symbos, but I also think FutureOs is cool too... but I guess that's cos it has lots of sexy superficial icons and pointers which I'm sure you TFM only put in for us shallow users that hate ASCII and keyboards
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 02:42, 10 November 14
An OS which runs on different computers is always forced to loose power to stay compatible to everything.
The perfect OS for a computer has a monolithic architecture and uses the particular strength of the computer.
Erm, no. Why should it be like this? Funny statement, as most native systems are so terrible slow  :D
The secret is in the low level routines. If these are optimized to the maximum and the remaining "general" system is totally written in optimized Z80 assembler, there is no loose of power at all. Why should it?
Speaking about the "perfect" OS: The perfect "OS" is something where the app don't need to know anything special about the computer. If an app needs to know something about the computer, you don't need an OS at all, right? In this case it's better to use libraries ;)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 03:45, 10 November 14
Funny point of view!  :)  IMO the perfect OS is exactly the opposite: The App is not dump, in contrast, it knows exactly in which environment it is running and it has full interface power / control over the hardware. Anything else makes it slower.

Well where is that slow native system? And then where is the faster not-native system? Windows? I guess no.  :P  Maybe Linux, but then we're back at unix.  ;)

Reality proves me right, compare multi platform OS (cpm, symbos) and native systems (disc'o'magic in this case):
Speedcheck - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Speedcheck)

Any monolithic system is always faster and more powerful, because it lacks the layer of abstraction. For example, I can load a screen as it is for Amsdos. For other OS is must be converted before it can be written in the screen RAM. What a terrible loss of resources. Sorry, but adding an abstraction layer will always lead to a significant slow-down. And all OS I know prove that right.


You are right about quick low level routines, but the gain of speed get's wasted for data conversion (see example of showing GFX, etc).


Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 03:51, 10 November 14
I dont really see how it can be classsed as superficial. GUI's aren't just asthetic, they are functional and improve use by ease of understanding and speed. You would have a point if the competition on the CPC like FutureOs and Symbos were just pretty interfaces and had less ability, but they dont. They do the same and more, and given they are written in z80 they do it faster too.
Im obviously biased as I code things for symbos, but I also think FutureOs is cool too... but I guess that's cos it has lots of sexy superficial icons and pointers which I'm sure you TFM only put in for us shallow users that hate ASCII and keyboards


I don't refuse GUIs in general. But I think that a combination between GUI and text section is the best solution. Sadly people don't know it, and so it scares them off. Eventually... The command line may be the best and efficient way of UI anyway because people know it.
A WIMP looks nice, but that's about it. Efficient work with mousing around? No, the keyboard will be always more quick. What I don't like are windows, they either cut down the usable screen area or can not be displayed in full. Further the bring chaos to the surface, look at recent published GUI pictures with windows. That's for my poor eyesight just chaos, I don't see whats going on. Why not using a status line which allows to switch between different full screens, that would be nice.

Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 10:42, 10 November 14
The App is not dump, in contrast, it knows exactly in which environment it is running and it has full interface power / control over the hardware. Anything else makes it slower.
This is, what I said before: If a program is written for a special platform and wants to be as fast as possible, squeezing out the last CPU cycle, it will not use an OS at all.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Trebmint on 11:37, 10 November 14

I don't refuse GUIs in general. But I think that a combination between GUI and text section is the best solution. Sadly people don't know it, and so it scares them off. Eventually... The command line may be the best and efficient way of UI anyway because people know it.
A WIMP looks nice, but that's about it. Efficient work with mousing around? No, the keyboard will be always more quick. What I don't like are windows, they either cut down the usable screen area or can not be displayed in full. Further the bring chaos to the surface, look at recent published GUI pictures with windows. That's for my poor eyesight just chaos, I don't see whats going on. Why not using a status line which allows to switch between different full screens, that would be nice.
Hmmm, perhaps you are playing devils advocate, but I'm one of the 99.99% of the world that uses Windows, OS10, Android, IOS, etc. I don't remember the public uproar when the last release of the Samsung CP/M 3.2 phone was released. Is a keyboard quicker? Well not if you don't know what the commands for an app are. The benefits of a GUI are a consistancy of use that I know I can click on an icon and the layout is mostly the same, and I can drag and drop file around. 99.9% of the world agrees, and if that makes me superficial then that's good as I'm not one of the techie paranoid luddites who think Microsoft, Google and Apple are compiling negative documents about them.
I also said a 100% command line, and you changed that to say that I was knocking anything with a command line. Virtually every modern OS has a command line still, they are useful, but people rarely use them. My issue with Fuzix is that it might be the most capable system, but its worthless as its not user friendly... So fine i'm superficial just like every other sane person
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Ygdrazil on 13:57, 10 November 14


I don't get it TFM!!!


You can always perform better (faster) by writing code that controls the hardware directly...   you don't even need an OS for that!!! So following your arguments the best OS is the most slim OS.. The slimmer the better - so the best OS must be no OS at all(!???), because every OS puts some sort of overhead between the programmer and the hardware! Where does FutureOS fit in? (Is it just 4 x 16Kb of nothing ( and yes I aknowledge that FutureOS has some very fast routines for printing letters and writing/reading disk) )?

IMO you reduce the complexity of an OS to a question of merely execution speed...

Speed of execution is not the only success criterion for an operating system!

Eg.

Abstration level
Size
Portablility
Versatility

So there will always be a tradeof between eg. portability vs size or size and execution speed etc., and this is much more complex than just a speedtest of writing disks!

Regards,
Ygdrazil
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Jckf on 17:14, 10 November 14
It sounds to me like this boils down to what the definition of "best" is. One might argue that an operating system is better if it's more user friendly, even if it's marginally slower than the competition.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 21:50, 10 November 14

This is, what I said before: If a program is written for a special platform and wants to be as fast as possible, squeezing out the last CPU cycle, it will not use an OS at all.


That's a philosophic question. But if you call it an program it will need an OS at least to get loaded and started, also for data-storage I/O (floppy disc) and probably keyboard scanning and usage of UI or at least printing characters on the screen. It's not just black or white.  ;)


I don't get it TFM!!!

That's right. An OS shall be as close as possible to the App. - not as small a possible.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 21:56, 10 November 14
Oh, an ugly command line OS... that's something from the 80's that IMHO should stay there. I must be missing something since everyone seems excited?

Hmmm, perhaps you are playing devils advocate, but I'm one of the 99.99% of the world that uses Windows, OS10, Android, IOS, etc. I don't remember the public uproar when the last release of the Samsung CP/M 3.2 phone was released. Is a keyboard quicker? Well not if you don't know what the commands for an app are. The benefits of a GUI are a consistancy of use that I know I can click on an icon and the layout is mostly the same, and I can drag and drop file around. 99.9% of the world agrees, and if that makes me superficial then that's good as I'm not one of the techie paranoid luddites who think Microsoft, Google and Apple are compiling negative documents about them.
I also said a 100% command line, and you changed that to say that I was knocking anything with a command line. Virtually every modern OS has a command line still, they are useful, but people rarely use them. My issue with Fuzix is that it might be the most capable system, but its worthless as its not user friendly... So fine i'm superficial just like every other sane person


Come on! First you give Fuzix shit and then you act like people misunderstand you. That's getting a bit like comedy here.
However, different people will always have different POV's of what's important.


What I want it that everybody respects the production of somebody else. Few know how much work it is to write an complete OS from scratch. So please everybody do appreciate any work done - especially when done for the CPC.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Bryce on 22:15, 10 November 14
Not really my subject, but I don't think you can say "best OS", because it depends entirely on what system and use the OS was optomised for. I use SuSE Linux with KDE on my main PC, it's "the best" for what I want. Fast, user-friendly and feature loaded with good multitasking. My Laptop has Windows 7, because most of my hardware / firmware programs are Windows only. I also have a 486 laptop with floppy drive and Win98 installed. It's "the best" for doing transfers to 8-bit disks, although it's neither the fastest, prettiest or feature filled compared to the others.

Bryce.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: CraigsBar on 22:37, 10 November 14
Not really my subject, but I don't think you can say "best OS", because it depends entirely on what system and use the OS was optomised for. I use SuSE Linux with KDE on my main PC, it's "the best" for what I want. Fast, user-friendly and feature loaded with good multitasking. My Laptop has Windows 7, because most of my hardware / firmware programs are Windows only. I also have a 486 laptop with floppy drive and Win98 installed. It's "the best" for doing transfers to 8-bit disks, although it's neither the fastest, prettiest or feature filled compared to the others.

Bryce.


Well these days I have Mac OSX on everything except my Raspberry Pi(s) and one Windows XP machine for floppy transfers.


Oh, and I will soon have a Mac Mini G4 1.5ghz which will run Morphos.


Craig

Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Edoz(MSX) on 22:58, 10 November 14
I like the idea of the new UNIX like OS for the z80.. On the MSX there is already a unix/linux clone created in the past. Called Uzix http://uzix.sourceforge.net/uzix2.0/index.php?page=scrsht&lang=us (http://uzix.sourceforge.net/uzix2.0/index.php?page=scrsht&lang=us)

Would be cool to have a concurrent for SymbOS.. like windows/linux ;) for now I stay with SymbOS :) as I always have chosen windows :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:35, 10 November 14
I didn't mean for this to get a bit flamey.


I think the fact that his OS is supposedly very Unix-like is a very neat thing to be running on a Z80, even if it's CLI only. I believe this is an advancement of Uzix actually.


Also, anyone actually USING a CPC today is hardly going to be someone that needs pointing in the right direction, and can cope with a CLI - as long as it is documented.


But Symbos, FutureOS, CP/M, etc - all great software too. Let's embrace the choice we have.



Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Trebmint on 23:59, 10 November 14
*deleted*
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 00:51, 11 November 14
That's a philosophic question. But if you call it an program it will need an OS at least to get loaded and started, also for data-storage I/O (floppy disc) and probably keyboard scanning and usage of UI or at least printing characters on the screen. It's not just black or white.

So that means we need program launchers only :D
If I would do a program, which should be as optimized as possible and specific to a special hardware, I wouldn't use an OS at all. In this case I and most others can do it much better and faster. E.g. printing text to the screen can be done about 70% faster (speaking about your always beloved strange speed comparisons -> a typical "black and white" notion, as you say...) compared to your OS. If I don't want any hardware abstractions, which would make my applications much more flexible, I won't use OS stuff at all, as there is no sense for this, like Ygdrazil already mentioned.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 01:45, 11 November 14
Its not even written in Z80, doesnt run on the CPC, but is running on a machine without any users. The NC has no facebook group, No live websites, No forums. Why are people even wanting this?


I think the majority of people probably share your opinion. However there are a lot of people who still use command line for most of their work. I do almost all my work aside from web browsing and pdf viewing using a text interface. I'd quite appreciate a machine like the NC100 for doing programming in vim and checking emails without the distractions of the web etc. With a wireless serial connection to my PC and/or a serial GSM modem it would be awesome! I only wish that you could tilt the screen and that it had three times as many lines. I think you'll find there are a surprising number of people who feel the same... and I also know that similar devices are still favoured by some writers for being lightweight and having good keyboards, long battery lives, and being distraction free.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 06:06, 11 November 14
Back to topic please.... and that is Fuzix.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 10:33, 11 November 14
There is a ZX Spectrum 128 branch now:
https://plus.google.com/111104121194250082892/posts/NNk83iC4XjZ (https://plus.google.com/111104121194250082892/posts/NNk83iC4XjZ)
FUZIX/Kernel/platform-zx128 at master · EtchedPixels/FUZIX · GitHub (https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX/tree/master/Kernel/platform-zx128)

Quite interesting:
FUZIX/PORTING at master · EtchedPixels/FUZIX · GitHub (https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX/blob/master/Kernel/PORTING)

I wonder which of these ports are already running:
FUZIX/Kernel at master · EtchedPixels/FUZIX · GitHub (https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX/tree/master/Kernel)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 19:35, 11 November 14
Has the Speccy 128 a 32 KB banking? Someone an idea how banking works with it?
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: MaV on 10:29, 12 November 14
Has the Speccy 128 a 32 KB banking? Someone an idea how banking works with it?
AFAIK, it has 16k pages which it switches into the upper 16k (&C000 - &FFFF).
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 11:56, 12 November 14
Yes,  just look here  (https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX/blob/master/Kernel/platform-zx128/README)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 18:42, 12 November 14
Ok, so a port to the Speccy makes even more problems than a port to the CPC.


If I would port it, I would put the Fuzix in ROM and swap full 64 KB page. 4x better  ;)


EDIT: Like CP/M Plus does it.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:14, 12 November 14
Depending the project's use/futility: you people don't get it! If someone compiles Apache and PHP for it (or maybe nginx), we'll have the Wiki running from a NC200! (well, if we solve the storage issue)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 19:42, 12 November 14
There is a hard disc for the NC200.  8)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:47, 12 November 14
No shit. Really???
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 20:21, 12 November 14
Yeah, really?! Do you mean HxC?!
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 22:07, 12 November 14
Yes, really. It gets connected to the printer port which can do I/O in both directions 8 bit. However, they are scarce. Would be nice to clone on though.


EDIT: Remember they called it something like Ranger Disc or so.

Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Gryzor on 19:31, 14 November 14
Here's a snippet I found here (http://www.retroisle.com/amstrad/nc/Articles/NC_FAQ.php):

Quote
Can a hard disk drive be connected to the NC?

No! The Ranger disk service is only for the NC200 which is the one with a floppy drive. I hadn't spoken to Ranger when the NC100 was designed so there's definitely none of their code in that machine. However, the first time I spoke to Ranger was not for the NC200 but for the NC150 (that was only sold in French and Italian versions). I thought that the serial terminal in the NC100 was a bit naff and I'd heard of Ranger because they specialised in software for the Sinclair Z88 machine so I asked them to do a "tarted up" terminal program for the NC150. At that time they "hid" some extra code in the terminal which then let the machine be connected to their Z88 external floppy drive. Later on, when I came to do the NC200 I naturally asked them to do the disk software because they already had MS-DOS routines in Z80 code that they had done for their own Ranger disk. So the bottom line is that if you have an NC200 you already have a disk and built in Ranger disk routines, if you have an NC150 then the only bit of Ranger code is the terminal but it contains a hidden "hook" which allows the Ranger external disk to be connected to the machine and if you have an NC100 there is no Ranger code in it at all.

Cliff Lawson (Amstrad NC project manager) cliffl@amstrad.com
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 20:19, 14 November 14
Sadly (I guess) nobody here does know anybody who ever owned (still has) that device. At ebay they would say... it*s... RARE
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Munchausen on 00:53, 16 November 14
I'd seen that quote but found it a bit confusing. Later however I was playing with ZCN and found this in the manual:

Quote
The add-on disk drive available for the NC100 (the RangerDisk3 from
Ranger) is not supported, and for various reasons would be difficult
to support directly. I could probably write a program for ZCN to
transfer files to/from an MS-DOS format disk in the drive if someone
lends (or gives ;-)) me a drive, though. Anyone willing to do that
should contact me, and I'll see what I can do. (I've already written a
C program to read/write MS-DOS disk images on a Unix box (I wrote it
before I'd heard of `mtools'), so I'd only need to write absolute disk
read/write routines to get it working under ZCN. It probably wouldn't
take long.)

It is good to know that the port is bi-directional so could be used for adding other hardware though.

To be honest, though it's a fun machine to play with I'm finding the NC100 screen a bit too small for anything useful so far.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 00:59, 16 November 14
Right, the NC200 screen is just fine. But sadly the upper characer line has drop outs of a couple scan lines. And this happens to nearly all machines.


Is anybody here who has a NC200 with every single scanline (or even pixel) working?



Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Gryzor on 13:01, 18 November 14
Mine worked just perfect last time I saw it...
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: robcfg on 13:09, 18 November 14
Mine too.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Prodatron on 13:38, 18 November 14
Min too  ;D
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Ygdrazil on 13:41, 18 November 14
Mine too  :)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Bryce on 13:41, 18 November 14
No problems on my NC200 screen either. I had to change the floppy drive though (cracked head), but I assume others will have floppy problems too soon, as they are belt driven.

Bryce.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: TFM on 23:17, 18 November 14
WoW! So the only two NC200's with missing scan lines are either at my home or at ebay (saw that problem there too).


Assume nobody ever openend the NC200 screen ever...?
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Bryce on 23:33, 18 November 14
WoW! So the only two NC200's with missing scan lines are either at my home or at ebay (saw that problem there too).


Assume nobody ever openend the NC200 screen ever...?

I striped my NC200 right down to the last screw when I restored it, so yes, I've had the screen open.

Bryce.
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: Poliander on 14:49, 01 January 15
If I got this correctly, then Mr. Cox is currently working on improving banking support in sdldz80 (https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX/commit/7903699e910a2e79275cc10bc89dbf302ea9ffd5) (which should enable Fuzix to run on CPCs, am I right?)
Title: Re: FUZIX "Unix" for NC100 (and other Z80 systems soon)
Post by: genesis8 on 00:12, 12 February 19
Did someone compile fuzix for nc100 and nc200 ?


I specify the target in the main Makefile, had to install sdcc, sdcc-ucsim, srecord, but still the make finish with an error.


Also, does someone have a pcard image for using with zcn with a lot of tools, turbo pascal for example ?