PCW 9512+ HxC installation

[CraigsBar]

Hi all.


It looks like the 3.5 inch floppy drive in my PcW 9512+ is failing.


so I was hoping to replace it with an HxC... However....


the 3.5 inch drive appears to be me quite non standard.


1. It has a 26 pin interface (Like a 3 inch drive) and not a 34 pin one (Like a standard 3.5inch drive
2. It has no Power supply, I guess some of the spare pins on the 26 way also provide the 5v required.


So the question is. is it even possible to swap this out with an HxC? If so would I Need to hack a 5v from somewhere inside the PcW? or is it gonna be possible to power the HxC in the same way as the current failing floppy drive?


I am not totally familiar with this hardware so I am not is a real position to poke around with it. Especially have a fully exposed CRT when accessing the drive


Craig

[Prodatron]

Is this a PCW9xxx specific problem?
I wonder if it's difficult to connect the HxC to a PCW8xxx, too?

[MaV]

The 8256, 8512, and 9512 support normal 3" disks, so their connector is the same as on the CPC series.

The 9512+ had a 3.5" drive which it seems use a different connector than the standard 3.5". Unfortunately I don't own that one to check this.

@CraigsBar: Is there probably some kind of adapter attached to the built-in 3.5" drive?

[CraigsBar]

The 8256, 8512, and 9512 support normal 3" disks, so their connector is the same as on the CPC series.

The 9512+ had a 3.5" drive which it seems use a different connector than the standard 3.5". Unfortunately I don't own that one to check this.

@CraigsBar: Is there probably some kind of adapter attached to the built-in 3.5" drive?

unfortunately not. The drive is a 3.5 inch one with a 1 piece pcb. No adaptor and no power socket.

The 26 way cable is attached to the main computer pcb directly as well. So I guess it is a totally non generic drive commissioned by Amstrad.

[MaV]

Madness!

Well, the best way to identify the pins is to trace them on the PCB. Ground and 5v should be relatively easy to find, ground tracks usually use up a lot of space. And the other tracks would go (mostly) straight to the FDC (or ASIC if the 9512+ has the FDC built into the ASIC).

[CraigsBar]

Madness!

Well, the best way to identify the pins is to trace them on the PCB. Ground and 5v should be relatively easy to find, ground tracks usually use up a lot of space. And the other tracks would go (mostly) straight to the FDC (or ASIC if the 9512+ has the FDC built into the ASIC).

I have some time next week. So I might open it up again to try and trace the connector. I have a pcw 3inch drive as well so might try to work out the cabling with that. If successful the an hxc will be purchased for the old girl (joyce)

[Prodatron]

Did you have a look at this?...
SY99 Floppy Disk Replacement Detail
The described 26pin cable has +5V included (pin 1,3,5).
It's a little bit different to the one used for the CPC:
DIY:Floppy Drives - CPCWiki

But maybe the PCW is using the one described in the first link?

[Bryce]

The shugart standard for laptops is a 26pin connector that includes power. Sounds like that's what you are describing. Check out the attachment in this post: 464+ Mod

Check for 5V on pins 1,3 and 5 and GND on the un-even numbered pins starting from 15 to confirm it's using this pinout.

Bryce.

[Munchausen]

The shugart standard for laptops is a 26pin connector that includes power. Sounds like that's what you are describing. Check out the attachment in this post: 464+ Mod

Check for 5V on pins 1,3 and 5 and GND on the un-even numbered pins starting from 15 to confirm it's using this pinout.

Bryce.

But that is an FPC cable, and it sounds like he is describing an IDC cable?

I have seen 26 pin IDC cables on laptop floppy drives but the pinout did not match the "standard" 26 pin floppy pin out that the FPC cable versions generally seem to use 

But who knows, maybe he will be lucky and it will match 

[CraigsBar]

If I can extract a manufacturer and part number from this drive, and perhaps even a schematic then would anyone be up for building an adaptor cable so I can put an nice shiny HxC in this machine?

[Bryce]

Depending on the controller it uses, you can probably work out the pinout from looking at the PCB. Can you send me a high-res picture of both sides of the PCB? (Only both if it has tracks on both sides).

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

Depending on the controller it uses, you can probably work out the pinout from looking at the PCB. Can you send me a high-res picture of both sides of the PCB? (Only both if it has tracks on both sides).

Bryce.

ugh, that means fully removing the board. Let me take a look. Since I cannot get bumpy to work tonight

[CraigsBar]

OK After fully dismantling the PcW 9512+ (Including unsoldering the shielding (thanks for that lord sugar) I have some photos. Although after all that I googled the part number on the drive and found full pinouts - Typical!


They are as follows


http://www.king27.freeserve.co.uk/3.5_drives/citizen.htm


any chance anyone would be able to knock up an Adaptor PCB for me with a 26 way header and 34way cable/plug for the HxC, in which case I'd like to buy 2 please, so I can drop a New 3.5 inch drive in as drive 2 at a future time.


If anyone still needs the PCB Pictures let me know.


Craig

[MaV]

If anyone still needs the PCB Pictures let me know.

Well, the PCW Wiki is looking for pictures of the various PCW boards.

http://pcwwiki.amstrad.es

[robcfg]

Well, the PCW Wiki is looking for pictures of the various PCW boards.

http://pcwwiki.amstrad.es

Absolutely!


Can you send me a link to the pictures? I'll take care of having them uploaded. (If you did take pictures of both sides of the PCB, the better!)


Cheers,
Rob

[Bryce]

They are as follows


http://www.king27.freeserve.co.uk/3.5_drives/citizen.htm


any chance anyone would be able to knock up an Adaptor PCB for me with a 26 way header and 34way cable/plug for the HxC, in which case I'd like to buy 2 please, so I can drop a New 3.5 inch drive in as drive 2 at a future time.

Craig

That is the same pinout as the shugart laptop standard, just they left off DSKCHG and included DS1. I haven't sent your 4128+ back yet, so if you like I'll check whether I have the parts and make one up for you. What exactly do you need at each end? 26way male to 34way female?

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

That is the same pinout as the shugart laptop standard, just they left off DSKCHG and included DS1. I haven't sent your 4128+ back yet, so if you like I'll check whether I have the parts and make one up for you. What exactly do you need at each end? 26way male to 34way female?

Bryce.

yes, and yes. That would be perfect. Your boards went in the post this morning.

[Bryce]

And how long does the cable need to be?

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

As short as possible! The loom in the 9512+ is very generous lol.

Would it be possible to pull out the 5v to a drive power connector as well? Then I can order a white hxc drive bay model for this machine.

[Bryce]

Yes, the cable will have a 26way male connector on one end and a 34way + 4way power connector on the other end. Unfortunately this doesn't allow you to use 12V drives, but it's the best you'll get from that header.

Does the 26way on the PCW have a notch for orientation? Picture would be helpful.

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

Yes, the cable will have a 26way male connector on one end and a 34way + 4way power connector on the other end. Unfortunately this doesn't allow you to use 12V drives, but it's the best you'll get from that header.

Does the 26way on the PCW have a notch for orientation? Picture would be helpful.

Bryce.

ok, i'll take it apart again tonight sheet, too many screws.

[CraigsBar]

As requested.

[CraigsBar]

Yes, the cable will have a 26way male connector on one end and a 34way + 4way power connector on the other end. Unfortunately this doesn't allow you to use 12V drives, but it's the best you'll get from that header.

Does the 26way on the PCW have a notch for orientation? Picture would be helpful.

Bryce.

Perfect, Like I say, it's getting an HxC in it as the A drive I really do not know how long this current drive has. and an HxC will accomodate ALL the PcW games on one SD card LOL as well as LocoScript and CP/M, ZP/M etc....


I might see of I can gat a 'ready signal' friendly drive in as B, are Samsung 312b s still freely available and ready signal friendly? although this will mean locating another drive mounting chassis from somewhere, or fabricating one with old Mechano strips LOL


Craig

[Bryce]

Thanks for the picture, it confirmed what I thought: Amstrad once again ignored the standard

I haven't done any more yet, as I have been dying of a flu since Sunday (that goes for other peoples stuff too: @trabitboy @seanb @TFM @beaker and others) but I'll try to get things moving at the weekend.

Bryce.

[seanb]

Thanks for the picture, it confirmed what I thought: Amstrad once again ignored the standard

I haven't done any more yet, as I have been dying of a flu since Sunday (that goes for other peoples stuff too: @trabitboy @seanb @TFM @beaker and others) but I'll try to get things moving at the weekend.

Bryce.

I'm thinking i might have sent you my virus through a pm.
hope i get better soon as I'm supposed to be a zombie in a horror film in Saturday