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Author Topic: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?  (Read 16325 times)

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Offline RockRiver

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #25 on: 12:56, 31 January 17 »
Here one future buyer/user
Make it posible!!! mate

SymbOS PCW support???

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #26 on: 15:10, 31 January 17 »
SymbOS PCW support???


You are not the first person to ask. I seem to recall trying SymbOS (when I first got my PCW) but it didn't work with my AMX mouse. The problem is I can't write a driver for it (yet) because I haven't investigated it. However.. if SymbOS already supports a hard drive then you should be able to configure uIDE to match the I/O address that its driver expects.


So: My question to you: Does SymbOS support any sort of hard drive, and if so, which one(s)?

Offline RockRiver

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #27 on: 15:41, 31 January 17 »
AMX pcw mouse is the one that I have. And now SymbOS works with it.
Jörn (SymbOS coder) answered me some time ago if there are PCW users with HDD... (only few old 80's HDD pcw drives in the World)
I think John Elliott (coder of Joyce emu) has one of that.
http://seasip.info/
In Amstrad ESP PCW forum (sorry spanish, please use G**gl* translator) we talked about old pcw HDD and  hypothetical IDE in PCW. Now a reallity thanks to you...
http://www.amstrad.es/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2831&p=63581#p42252

Please may in contact with emus PCWbox & Joyce coders and SymbOS coders for council about compatibility with old & new PCW hardware and software.
https://www.msx.org/forum/development/msx-development/symbos-msx-multitasking-operating-system-help-needed?page=384#comment-308014


We are in contact. Some PCW users and coders in Spain nowadays. I notice them about your great project.
 
« Last Edit: 15:51, 31 January 17 by RockRiver »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #28 on: 16:44, 31 January 17 »
OK, great. I PM-ed Prodatron to ask if the v3.0 SymbOS for PCW supports IDE drives. Maybe you could ask your friends? IDE drivers are easy to write if the OS interface is clean (as it is with the PCW FID). And of course, I can help.


You might like to see it working. In which case... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdH2u50ocnjPxPmEOyNVLsg

« Last Edit: 16:46, 31 January 17 by JonB »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #29 on: 09:51, 02 February 17 »
Mk 3 prototype...


 [ Invalid Attachment ]


I am testing it now.
« Last Edit: 09:54, 02 February 17 by JonB »

Online robcfg

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #30 on: 11:49, 02 February 17 »
Looks really good!

Offline RockRiver

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #31 on: 14:55, 02 February 17 »
Great!!
For now is like "Witch Breakdown" an 80's spaniard TV puppet  :laugh:



Good Work!!!
« Last Edit: 15:08, 02 February 17 by RockRiver »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #32 on: 19:03, 02 February 17 »
But...


 [ Invalid Attachment ]


This is the completed board layout as rendered by OSH Park. I ordered 3 of them as prototypes, £10 per board. I will assemble one and do some further testing. Also, I still have to design the Z80 shim and PCW expansion port adapter and get them fabricated. Still a long way to go, but be assured: IDE is coming to the PCW.

About now you might consider registering your interest. I need to know how many boards to order. Please also indicate whether you want the Z80 shim or expansion port adapter.


@RockRiver, would you mind co-ordinating on the Amstrad.ES forum for me?


Regards
JonB

Offline Audronic

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #33 on: 23:12, 02 February 17 »
@JonB


I would like one that connects to the Expansion Interface Thanks




Ray
Procrastinators Unite,
If it Ain't Broke PLEASE Don't Fix it.
I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.
As I Live " Down Under " I Take my Gravity Tablets and Wear my Magnetic Boots to Keep me from Falling off.

Offline greatwolf1283

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #34 on: 11:59, 03 February 17 »
@JonB

I would like two of them, with the Z80 Shim Adapter please.

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #35 on: 12:47, 03 February 17 »
Speaking of which...


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The eagle-eyed among you may notice that the host adapter on the uIDE is back to front. That's because I designed it for a left handed shim, or I was asleep at the wheel. So now I have to go back and re-route it... :(


Still, never mind - the three I ordered can be used with the shims I have here.


Cheers
JonB
« Last Edit: 12:50, 03 February 17 by JonB »

Offline SteveH

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #36 on: 15:22, 03 February 17 »
I'd like one plus a z80 shim adapter, please.

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #37 on: 19:27, 03 February 17 »
Here is the bus adapter board with power access and composite video output. The minimum requirement is installation of the two IDC connectors (video, power connectors and LED components are optional).


 [ Invalid Attachment ]


I need to fatten the power lines a bit, but that is the layout.


OSH Park costs are as follows (for three boards):
  • uIDE IDE adapter card: $29.15
  • PCW Expansion adapter:  $25.55
  • Z80 Shim boards: $13.50


Cheers
JonB

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #38 on: 20:16, 03 February 17 »
Here's another option: PCW Expansion Port adapter "lite":


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It excludes the video circuit and costs $18.80 for three boards (OSH Park again).

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #39 on: 18:15, 04 February 17 »

Hi again!

Another day, another update, and I hope this is the last one. The problem with CAD packages is you want to get everything perfect, and you keep going back and making changes, because you continuously think of ways to improve your design. So it is with uIDE, and here is version 0.4:


 [ Invalid Attachment ]


The differences are:
  • Slightly larger board to better support IDE box header connectors, and to give enough board edge width to allow rack mounting (albeit in a "make your own rack" - more about that later).
  • Additional 5v power connector for CF card adapters that need it.
  • Fatter power traces.
  • There is a small increase in (OSH Park) price, now $32.75 for three.
I have also completed improvements to the other three boards. They all have fatter power traces. In addition, I conducted more testing on the prototype (in CP/M, "PIP H:=C:*.*[V]" - that's a full copy of the many files on C: to H:, both drives on the IDE device, with read verification) and there were no errors.


Cheers
JonB
« Last Edit: 18:19, 04 February 17 by JonB »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #40 on: 19:27, 04 February 17 »
Board summary

uIDE Z80 Univeral IDE Adapter
Universal IDE adapter.

PCW Expansion port adapter (with composite video out)
Choose this board if you want to mount the uIDE externally and you would like to have access to a composite video signal.
  • Composite video circuit.
  • Power indicator.
  • 5v, 12v outputs.
  • Access to pins that are on the PCW port but not on the Z80 bus, and vice versa.
  • Plugs into PCW expansion port connector.
  • z80 bus connector for connecting to uIDE.
PCW Adapter "lite" (without composite video out)
Choose this board if you want to mount the uIDE externally and you do not require composite video. The VSYNC and VIDEO signals are still available on the board.
  • Compact design, a little bit cheaper than the video-equipped version.
  • Power indicator.
  • 5v, 12v, VSYNC, VIDEO outputs.
  • Access to pins that are on the PCW port but not on the Z80 bus, and vice versa.
  • Plugs into PCW expansion port connector.
  • z80 bus connector for connecting to uIDE.
Z80 shim / bus connector (LHS)
A Z80 shim card with the bus connector on the left hand side of the processor. Choose this card if you want to mount the uIDE adapter internally, or you need to keep your expansion port free.

Z80 shim / bus connector (RHS)
A Z80 shim card with the bus connector on the right hand side of the processor. Choose this card if you want to mount the uIDE adapter internally, or you need to keep your expansion port free.

If you are going for a Z80 shim, check that your PCW has a socketed Z80 and also check orientation of the chip. Check the space available inside your machine and choose the shim which best fits (I think the 8256 has enough space to accommodate left or right handed shims, but the 9512 needs the right handed shim because there is a capacitor in the way). Then double check!


Cheers
JonB
« Last Edit: 16:35, 06 February 17 by JonB »

Offline greatwolf1283

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #41 on: 20:27, 04 February 17 »
Absolutely stellar work Jon.  Both of my PCW's will be very happy with these 😊

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #42 on: 12:47, 05 February 17 »
I have ordered a small batch of cards (10 of each) from a Chinese supplier.


Again, please do not order from OSH Park as these boards are untested. I will offer the Chinese boards when I know they are OK (and order more).
« Last Edit: 12:54, 05 February 17 by JonB »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #43 on: 14:21, 06 February 17 »
Prototype Z80 Shim board, left hand sided.

Top view.

* IMG_0717.JPG
(201.05 kB, 961x1054 - viewed 74 times)


Bottom view.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]

I do have a few concerns about this approach:
  • It is quite tall, and may not fit in other machines.
  • The pins that plug into the motherboard socket need to be turned (because they are thinner and less likely to cause damage). The problem is that turned pin headers tend to be expensive and hard to get (the ones Farnell sell are £2.50 for one row of 20 pins). An alternative might be to use the cheap pins you see above and plug the adapter into a cheap 40 way DIL socket, then plug that into the motherboard, but it adds height.
  • The socket on top needs to be implemented as 2x20 turned pin socket headers so that the underside inner pin row is accessible for soldering.
  • When soldering, it is important to ensure all pin header rows are properly aligned and perpendicular to the board. I plug them into female or male connectors while soldering.
« Last Edit: 14:24, 06 February 17 by JonB »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #44 on: 15:30, 06 February 17 »


So far I have 6 expressions of interest. I have some questions for you.


@greatwolf1283 : Do you want the LHS or RHS Z80 shim? Recommended: LHS for PCW8256, RHS for PCW9256.


@MaV : Which adapter do you need? Choose from Z80 LHS, Z80 RHS (Recommended: LHS for PCW8256, RHS for PCW9256), Expansion port with video, Expansion port "lite". Do you want them fully assembled or just the boards?


@RockRiver : Which adapter do you need? Choose from Z80 LHS, Z80 RHS (Recommended: LHS for PCW8256, RHS for PCW9256), Expansion port with video, Expansion port "lite". Do you want them fully assembled or just the boards?


@SteveH : Do you want them fully assembled or just the boards?


Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #45 on: 16:32, 06 February 17 »
The BOM for all boards with Farnell order numbers is attached, for those of you who are self building.


 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Offline SteveH

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #46 on: 18:02, 06 February 17 »
@SteveH : Do you want them fully assembled or just the boards?

@JonB

I'm happy to go with just the boards.  My preference is for a right handed shim board.

I'm considering using 40 pin turned wire wrap DIL or SIP sockets, instead of the IDC headers for P1. They may increase both the height and price a little (plus neither appear to be available from Farnell at the moment), but I'm fine with both for my system.  Plus it means less soldering.  ;D


* sip.png
(138.24 kB, 455x223 - viewed 69 times)
[ Invalid Attachment ]
(images courtesy of hackaday.com)


Looking forward to this.  Many thanks.

Cheers,
Steve
« Last Edit: 18:13, 06 February 17 by SteveH »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #47 on: 18:54, 06 February 17 »
Thanks, Steve.


Check those wire wrap parts don't damage the socket on the motherboard. If they don't I may use them myself, because less soldering, and I can cut the legs to lower the shim. But to be honest, I'm not all that keen on producing fully populated boards because of the time it will take. However, there aren't that many parts and so far less than 5 people want populated boards.


Cheers
JonB


PS, I have published provisional board prices on Amstrad.ES:
  • uIDE £7.50
  • Z80 shim, LHS or RHS £2.50
  • PCW expansion port adapter (with composite video output) £4.00
  • PCW expansion port adapter "lite" (without video output) £3.00
  • All plus P&P (perhaps £1.50?) and PayPal fees (3.5%)
I hope that is reasonable. I have yet to get the parts prices together (it is surprisingly complicated!) and put a value on the assembly time.


Don't forget, if you are using a Z80 shim you need a 40 way IDC cable (a PC IDE hard drive cable is perfect) to connect the uIDE and shim together. It is possible you can just solder the boards together, there is a lot of space inside the PCW, but I have not yet tried it out. (I will, though! ;) )

Offline Sebastian Blanco

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #48 on: 19:00, 06 February 17 »
I want one just the parts i build it myself, sound like fun :D.


 
« Last Edit: 19:02, 06 February 17 by Sebastian Blanco »

Offline JonB

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Re: Who wants IDE drives on the PCW?
« Reply #49 on: 19:04, 06 February 17 »
I want one just the parts i build it myself, sound like fun :D .


Please let me know what your connectivity option is. I guess you will be wanting the Expansion port with video output?