Author Topic: #CPCRetroDev 2018 - Amstrad CPC Game Creation Contest new for 2018!  (Read 7602 times)

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Offline Targhan

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Quote
FYI: You can shoot the monsters with I, J, K & L while moving with W, A, S, & D.
Oh, right!! Thanks. But now, the game is incredibly easy, no? :)
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Offline Carnivius

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How do you walk at a normal speed in Deeper Warrens?  Everytime I've tried the game the player character moves so slowly and then sometimes speeds up a bit and then slows down again. Also how do you attack the enemies?  Fire does seemingly nothing.  Even when breaking the walls (which does work) there's no visual feedback of an attack other than the wall block breaking. 
Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline Arnaud

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How do you walk at a normal speed in Deeper Warrens?  Everytime I've tried the game the player character moves so slowly and then sometimes speeds up a bit and then slows down again. Also how do you attack the enemies?  Fire does seemingly nothing.  Even when breaking the walls (which does work) there's no visual feedback of an attack other than the wall block breaking. 
If you walk slowly it's because you don't have enough food.
To attack it's like Gauntlet you walk into the monster, when you hit you'll see blood effect. The fire button is used to launch Dagger and to use potions (selected via second button or directly with keys 1 to 4)
Wall, crates and skeletons contains items (food, gold, daggers) and can be destroyed by walking into.
« Last Edit: 20:53, 11 November 18 by Arnaud »

Offline Carnivius

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If you walk slowly it's because you don't have enough food.
To attack it's like Gauntlet you walk into the monster, when you hit you'll see blood effect. The fire button is used to launch Dagger and to use potions (selected via second button or directly with keys 1 to 4)
Wall, crates and skeletons contains items (food, gold, daggers) and can be destroyed by walking into.
Ah ok i thought it might be. It just doesn't feel like I'm really doing anything then.  Was never a big fan of Gauntlet though but  this a good game. 

I've played them all and I think my fave is Legend of Steel, with Operation Alexandra, Jarlac and Timmy Gun being somewhere just behind in some kind of order.   Foosball is pretty interesting and has a lot of options.  OPQA vs QAOP (i dunno what that's about, never could stand using those keys to play games... joystick all the way for me) is a nice CPC clone of Puyo Puyo which I used to play on SNES emulators a lot. 
Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline meta

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Foosball F3
Really cool! This is really well done. Great music! I'm not sure about the gameplay though, I couldn't score once, the motions of the players are too slow, the goal doesn't move fast enough... Or maybe it is only me?

I'm glad you like it.

The figures should not go slower than the ball, if so, then the 6128 is not very happy with the game.
Foosball was only tested on the CPC 464 (as required by the bases).

Maybe the gameplay is not very good at the beginning and the controls are difficult.
I still have to improve in this aspect in the future.

And I subscribe, Deeper warrens is a great game, much better than mine.
In my opinion I think that the technical and artificial intelligence aspects should score separately.

My congratulations to Arnaud.

Offline Arnaud

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And I subscribe, Deeper warrens is a great game, much better than mine.
It's hard to compare a Gauntlet like and a foosball game.
Your game is more original than mine (only one foosball game in all 8 bit era), and you were able to make a CPC playing Foosball, that great !

My congratulations to Arnaud.
Thanks, congrats to you too  ;)

Offline meta

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In general it's better product, I think. But the style is not comparable obviously.

Offline meta

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I see that you have a 464 Plus, the foosball work well for you?
« Last Edit: 23:43, 11 November 18 by meta »

Offline ervin

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Yes, I agree with Targhan.

Deeper Warrens should have placed much, much higher.
Definitely top 3.
Arnaud - please don't let the 8th position discourage you.
You did a *fantastic* job, and the community here recognises that.

I am surprised by how disappointing Jarlac is! It's a real pity as I've been looking forward to it.
The messy graphics aren't a big deal, but some gameplay design choices ruin the game for me.
Not being able to swing your sword while jumping feels *wrong*, and not being able to attack an enemy that is sitting *on* you (sucking away your energy) really hurts playability.
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Offline Scarlettkitten

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Brilliant & so many good entries, my favourites are Legend of steel and Deeper warrens.


well done to all that took part.  8)
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Offline skylas

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I have played most of the games today!
I believe that we must not forget that this contest is mainly a students contest, and this makes the goal of the competition different than any other competition.The goal of a student is to make a game, and acquire experience that will use in his future. Their basic  purpose is not mainly quality or graphics, the first goal is submitting a game.
In this context, any feedback is very helpful, strict or not, as it has to be taken into consideration by the developers.
And also, in this context, and generally speaking, my opinion is that maybe it could be better if more attention is given to new game ideas and playability/enjoyment! (instead eg of graphics or an intro loading screen).
At any case, i believe that all made their best for making their game and that the quality was very good! They all need our congratulations and feedback as a reward for their effort!

Offline XeNoMoRPH

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Offline Carnivius

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Yes, I agree with Targhan.

Deeper Warrens should have placed much, much higher.
Definitely top 3.
Arnaud - please don't let the 8th position discourage you.
You did a *fantastic* job, and the community here recognises that.

I am surprised by how disappointing Jarlac is! It's a real pity as I've been looking forward to it.
The messy graphics aren't a big deal, but some gameplay design choices ruin the game for me.
Not being able to swing your sword while jumping feels *wrong*, and not being able to attack an enemy that is sitting *on* you (sucking away your energy) really hurts playability.
I'll admit those are flaws with Jarlac but I still find it more fun than Deeper Warrens.  The lack of any actual attack sprite and having to 'push' into the enemy in the latter really kills the fun of combat for me.  I just feel no sense of actual contact with the enemy at all.   And while the slower speed on low food may make some sort of real world sense i guess, the speed changes just make the game seem quite frustrating to me.  I say it's a good game but certainly not one of my faves in the contest. For little sprites attacking stuffs, Legend of Steel gets the feel of combat a lot better for me and well animated sprites for the size of them helps that for me a lot.
Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline awergh

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@Targhan
So given what you might describe as an excessive number of samey platformers, what genre(s) do you think are under represented that you would like to see?

Offline reidrac

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@Targhan
So given what you might describe as an excessive number of samey platformers, what genre(s) do you think are under represented that you would like to see?

I don't know if this is what @Targhan meant, but in my opinion it's not a problem of genre but the way we approach it as designers. At this point is quite hard to not make another game that feels generic and "more of the same".

I think Operation Alexandra made a good effort to be different, but I also felt that the initial enemies where a bit uninteresting perhaps.

I like the game though. To mention other games from the same group, it has that "classic" feel that Cuauhtémoc has, whilst "Adiós a la casta" is a bit "more of the same" feel @Targhan referred to.
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Offline Targhan

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@awergh Like @reidrac said, my problem is not about platformers. There are many ways to make platformers. The most famous one, Mario, has yet to be challenged by a CPC game! My only gripe is that most of the latest platformers on CPC relies on the same mechanisms and have all the same weakness (monster spawning, high level of difficulty, etc.).


Galactic Tomb was a bit different, for example, more hectic, which is what I liked it.
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Offline reidrac

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@awergh Like @reidrac said, my problem is not about platformers. There are many ways to make platformers. The most famous one, Mario, has yet to be challenged by a CPC game! My only gripe is that most of the latest platformers on CPC relies on the same mechanisms and have all the same weakness (monster spawning, high level of difficulty, etc.).


Galactic Tomb was a bit different, for example, more hectic, which is what I liked it.

Operation Alexandra has a strong adventure component with some object based puzzles. Those initial enemies are misleading, if you keep playing I think you'll find the game is great.
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Offline Carnivius

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I think all this discussion just reminds me how hard it is to make a video game that'll appeal to folk when everyone's got different tastes and ideas about game design and what makes a game enjoyable even in specific genres.  One feature that could be fun for a certain player may be tedious and frustrating for another. 
Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline Rhino

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Imo, Operation Alexandra is a fair winner from a general point of view. Obviously it's not the most original concept, and the feeling of what's fun is subjective, so many people will find other games from the contest more fun. Of course every opinion is respectable.

But I wouldn't go so lightly on other important aspects like the polish and final quality, the storyline, the atmosphere achieved, etc... I think Targhan knows a lot about this with his great work Orion Prime that we all value very well because reaching that level of quality requires many hours of dedication and effort, as well as being a manifestation of artistic and technical quality, also very important in a game imo and of course it's worth playing.

If I had to show the best CPC games to a friend of another platform like C64, I would show Orion Prime, and from the CPCRetroDev I would show Operation Alexandra before any other without hesitation if what I want is to make a good impression, not only of the game but the CPC too, and I think it's also pretty funny to play.

If we look at the evolution of the 4mhz games, we can see a clear progression in quality, both technically and artistically, and if they continue like this we don't know where their limits lie.
I hope I'm not misunderstood, I am not in favour of censoring opinions for hurting feelings and I think Targhan's sincerity is to be welcomed, but for me all the effort 4mhz is doing must be rewarded and another perverse effect (that maybe Targhan hadn't thought) of valuing games like Crimson Knight Adventures (e.g), made in 6 weeks by students, better than a 6 months work of 4mhz is that people who are growing in talent like 4mhz might lose interest in devoting so much time to a hobby whose main reward is the feedback from the scene, and I think it would be a shame to lose teams like 4mhz. On the other hand, I don't think the authors of Crimson Knight Adventures should feel bad about being ranked worse than Operation Alexandra.

For the students the important thing about the experience is learning. Most of their games look more like prototypes than finished games because they are engineers in training who in their professional life will delegate artistic tasks to others. And for this reason I believe that the contest does well in dividing the categories and granting special mentions and prizes, as well as separately valuing the gameplay.

In any case, from here my congratulations to all participants and my thanks for growing the CPC scene each year with more games.

Offline Targhan

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Don't get me wrong people: I valued Operation Alexandra's quality, and I quote myself:
Quote
Great graphics, nice music, good animation. I can't deny the game is really well polished, with a cool introduction and ingame dialogs
I'm just a bit disappointed that an experienced team like 4mhz doesn't spend more time on something a bit more adventurous than the average "shoot/move forward" type of game. But this game didn't "click" on me, that's all. No big deal really.
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Offline Carnivius

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But I wouldn't go so lightly on other important aspects like the polish and final quality, the storyline, the atmosphere achieved, etc... I think Targhan knows a lot about this with his great work Orion Prime that we all value very well because reaching that level of quality requires many hours of dedication and effort, as well as being a manifestation of artistic and technical quality, also very important in a game imo and of course it's worth playing.
Orion Prime that requires 128k and comes on 4 floppy disks?  Whereas this contest was about games that can load off a cassette tape for the 464?  Also Orion Prime is one of those games I respect for the level of work and hours put into it but it's not a game I enjoy myself cos it's just not my kind of game.  It's all very much down to what entertains a particular player.   While it entertains many people I'm sure, it doesn't provide me with much fun being that I don't enjoy that kind of pointy clicky, lots of reading, adventure gameplay so I couldn't recommend it as 'best of CPC' being that I personally don't feel encouraged to often load it up and play it like I do with many other kinds of games.

Don't get me wrong people: I valued Operation Alexandra's quality, and I quote myself:I'm just a bit disappointed that an experienced team like 4mhz doesn't spend more time on something a bit more adventurous than the average "shoot/move forward" type of game. But this game didn't "click" on me, that's all. No big deal really.
Which is what I just stated about OP.  If you like graphic adventures it's likely you'll like Orion Prime.  If you like platform shooty things you'll likely like Operation Alexandra.   I'm very much the latter.
And it feels a bit silly to be disappointed that developers made a game they wanted to make.  It's up to them what they enjoy creating and playing as it's up to you as to what you enjoy too.
Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline Rhino

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Orion Prime that requires 128k and comes on 4 floppy disks?  Whereas this contest was about games that can load off a cassette tape for the 464?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing Orion Prime to Opertation Alexandra, but I think both games have one thing in common: the author's commitment to quality and dedication.

Offline reidrac

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Well, that's reviewing a game, isn't it? There are things that you like, and things that you don't. Sometimes everything is great, sometimes is not. Is not like we're reviewing the game in a magazine in the 80s  :laugh:

And that's fine; is not like you're asking the developers to change the game!

I'm enjoying this thread. It is a good reflection on game design and, as I said, I'm taking notes.

EDIT: I get all sort of feedback from my games, and not all of it is positive. I disagree with some of those things, and on others, I agree (even if it is eventually). I think it helps me to make better games.
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Offline Rhino

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Things I'd change in the contest:
- I would ask the jury, at least those who evaluate aspects such as gameplay, technical quality or the global product, to test on real hardware to better evaluate aspects such as fps, response speed, etc...
- Since there is no risk of few entries, I would add a 128kb category. This I think would be good to enhance the creation of bigger and more complex games.

Offline rexbeng

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What a nice little discussion Targhan has fired!

I think I might have an opinion to share, but before I do, I'd need the help of technically minded people.

Are there games in CPCRetrodev 2018 that run at a constant 50 frames or 25 frames rate? Are there games where the movement (sprites and scrolling if have) is done in per pixel steps rather than byte steps or character steps?

rb