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General Category => News & Events => Topic started by: NewsBot on 18:00, 20 October 16

Title: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: NewsBot on 18:00, 20 October 16
Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P. (http://www.genesis8bit.fr/archives/index.php?news_id=634)
19 October 2016, 9:50 pm

Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.

Source: Genesis8 Amstrad Page (http://www.genesis8bit.fr/index.php)

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Gryzor on 14:51, 24 October 16
Huh, that's interesting!


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rvbrwh1Wc[/youtube]
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 13:26, 16 March 19
https://youtu.be/hrlMnn-kNYI
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: genesis8 on 19:40, 16 March 19
Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 20:42, 17 March 19
Very nice! Looking forward to see the final result.  :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: andycadley on 09:40, 19 March 19
Ooh, nice. I was always a big fan of Slap Fight. :-)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: norecess on 13:07, 22 March 19
Lots of potential !! Very promising.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 21:16, 28 March 19
https://youtu.be/qUsqQLbVSJc
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: ervin on 10:46, 29 March 19
This is so impressive.
I've been chatting with the dev on youtube about the sprite routines.
I'd love to have a look at some of the code.
 :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 13:45, 29 March 19
This is so impressive.
I've been chatting with the dev on youtube about the sprite routines.
I'd love to have a look at some of the code.
 :D


Here is one of the sprites in the game:



macro newline:pop hl:ld a,l:add c:ld l,a:mend
macro putv value:ld (hl),value:mend
macro tr_l value:ld a,(hl):and e:or value:ld(hl),a:mend
macro tr_r value:ld a,(hl):and d:or value:ld(hl),a:mend


; Draws an outer Wing "odd" sprite
; Input HL=pointer to screen row in look-up table
;   C=horizontal offset


__Wing_2_0_1
ld (sp_save),sp
di
ld sp,hl
ld de,&55AA
ld b,#40
inc c
newline:tr_l b:inc l:tr_l #41
newline:tr_l b:inc l:tr_l #41
newline:tr_l b:inc l:putv #C1
dec c
newline:tr_l b:inc l:tr_l #40:inc l:putv #4B:inc l:tr_l #41
newline:tr_l b:inc l:tr_l #40:inc l:putv #C1:inc l:tr_l #41
newline:tr_l b:inc l:putv #C2:inc l:putv #C1:inc l:putv #4B
newline:tr_l b:inc l:putv #C2:inc l:putv #C1:inc l:putv #4B
newline:tr_l b:inc l:putv #C3:inc l:putv #85:inc l:putv #4B
newline:tr_l b:inc l:putv #C1:inc l:putv #85:inc l:putv #C3
newline:tr_l b:inc l:putv #C0:inc l:putv #C1:inc l:putv #C3
newline:inc l:putv #D0:inc l:putv #F0:inc l:tr_r #82
newline:inc l:tr_r #80:inc l:inc l:tr_r #82
ld sp,(sp_save)
ei
ret         



Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: ervin on 13:47, 29 March 19
That's really great - thanks abalore!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: fgbrain on 22:19, 31 March 19
Apart from printing sprites ... For such a game with many bullets on screen
how do you handle sprites collision?? :P
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 12:22, 01 April 19
Apart from printing sprites ... For such a game with many bullets on screen
how do you handle sprites collision?? :P


Using a collision matrix.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: zhulien on 17:42, 01 April 19
one of my favourite games of all time, makes the wonder though...


could a TATE mode work well on the CPC?  You could then leverage off the horizontal hardware scroll, potentially full screen
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 21:45, 02 April 19
one of my favourite games of all time, makes the wonder though...


could a TATE mode work well on the CPC?  You could then leverage off the horizontal hardware scroll, potentially full screen


Problem with TATE on the CPC is that, while pixel precision vertical scrolling is "easily" achievable, pixel precision horizontal scrolling isn't. At least not in a universal way for all CRTCs, as far as I know. In horizontal you must rely on character scrolling, which is only apropiate for very fast scrolling games or "push scrolling" like GnG.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 23:13, 02 April 19
Pixel precise horizontal scrolling on all CRTCs is also very easy. Use two screens, like shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twCwbe1IgMo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twCwbe1IgMo)

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 01:26, 03 April 19
Pixel precise horizontal scrolling on all CRTCs is also very easy. Use two screens, like shown here:



Yeah, it's probably combining the R3 trick with two sets of tiles (displaced by one pixel). It doesn't seem to have a big tile variety at all. In my case I just can't afford that technique, I can barely fit in memory the 256 different tiles per level in my game (I already use 3 screen buffers, tilemap, sprites, soundtrack...) . It would require to double the tile memory, which is out of consideration.


A plain R3 technique would give us a 2 mode 0 pixel precision, but take into account that a mode 0 pixel is double size in horizontal than in vertical, so a 2 horitonzal pixel scroll will be visually equivalent a 4 pixel vertical scroll. I'm not saying it's impossible, just not "easy". Having to double the tile memory fits the definition of "not easy" in my opinion. You can argue that the tile displacement can be done real-time, but then you'll waste a lot of precious CPU cycles.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Axelay on 07:00, 03 April 19

Yeah, it's probably combining the R3 trick with two sets of tiles (displaced by one pixel). It doesn't seem to have a big tile variety at all. In my case I just can't afford that technique, I can barely fit in memory the 256 different tiles per level in my game (I already use 3 screen buffers, tilemap, sprites, soundtrack...) . It would require to double the tile memory, which is out of consideration.


A further consideration with using preshifted tiles like that is that the leading edge column of pixels of a tile needs to be identical to the trailing edge column of pixels of the preceding tile, so that needs to be dealt with in some way, and is likely to either cost cpu or limit tile arrangement or design.


could a TATE mode work well on the CPC?  You could then leverage off the horizontal hardware scroll, potentially full screen


I think there are a couple of other things working against a TATE mode as well.


Primarily it's that with a standard orientation vertical scrolling screen sized to 32 characters wide, you have pretty much the ideal for fast screen addressing, with each line being an even 64 bytes long with no concerns about memory page changing in a pixel line, let alone screen address reset.  With a horizontal scroll it's the opposite, not only do you need to worry about a line of pixels having page changes, but also dealing with the position where the screen address resets and goes backwards by 2kb.  So it would complicate and slow screen addressing.


A small secondary possible issue, depending on your point of view, is that a score line is relatively easy to maintain as a screen split in the standard orientation below the play area, where if you were using a horizontal scroll, your only easy option would be a 'vertical' score line along the left or right side of the play area, which I suspect would not really achieve the 'arcade feel' I imagine a TATE mode would be aiming for.  There's options you could use for putting a score at the top or bottom of the screen, but the ones I can think of at the moment would use up more cpu time than a 'vertical column to the side' style score panel.


As abalore says, that doesnt mean it's impossible, but I think there is a lot more going for using a vertical scroll in standard orientation on CPC.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 16:31, 03 April 19
@abalore (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2595) : Yes, "wasting" 32 KB for screens is a lot. However, one should take into account that lots of games use that anyway (even without pixel precise scrolling) to omit flicker und to build up a screen properly.
The "Burning Wheels" game runs in 64 KB. You could move to 128 KB to have 64 KB more for tiles. Today everybody has an X-MEM or RAM expansion anyway.  :)


Good luck with your projects!!!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Carnivius on 17:33, 03 April 19
Today everybody has an X-MEM or RAM expansion anyway.  :)
Not everybody.  :-[
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: zhulien on 18:15, 03 April 19
I think perhaps resolutions using the entire width, but 13 characters high (around 8kb RAM) gives a nice approx 16x9 aspect ratio too.  Games like slapfight ideally are in 3:4 aspect ratio, but honestly this remake of Slap Fight looks awesome!


Actually, i wonder how many TVs these days have a zoom option?  With the right resolution and using the TV's Zoom, we might 'almost' get a full screen game.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 19:29, 03 April 19
Not everybody.  :-[
Get one! Its worth every penny dozen times!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 04:41, 04 April 19
You could move to 128 KB to have 64 KB more for tiles.


The game requires 128K already. A cartridge version compatible with 64K machines is also planned, probably based on a Dandanator device.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 14:54, 04 April 19
Very nice!!!  :) :) :) 
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 22:12, 07 April 19
https://youtu.be/MpPWc3VHE70 (https://youtu.be/MpPWc3VHE70)
Slap Fight WIP , in Retro Pixel 2019 event ( Málaga - Spain )
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Carnivius on 09:11, 08 April 19
wow as much as i have fondness for the original port (and it's lil colourful spaceship) that does look impressively smooth and large screen for the cpc.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 14:44, 03 May 19
https://youtu.be/elxyPQTvnCc
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 19:50, 20 May 19
https://youtu.be/miXpWND0Ys4
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 12:06, 21 May 19
(https://www.amstrad.es/forum/download/file.php?id=5718&mode=view)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 19:06, 21 May 19
Quite impressive!  :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 20:42, 21 May 19
Good!  :)

Some background emboss effects are missing, what makes the remake is a bit flat compared to the arcade or CPC version.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 11:36, 22 May 19
Good!  :)

Some background emboss effects are missing, what makes the remake is a bit flat compared to the arcade or CPC version.


Hi! thanks for your comment, could you kindly give me more detail about those effects missing?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 13:42, 22 May 19
Hi! thanks for your comment, could you kindly give me more detail about those effects missing?
Sure. See the annotated picture with arrows to point some areas where the arcade versions looks embossed (dark/light edges) but flat like on a same level on the current CPC remake work.
(about the spaceship shadow, I can understand that is not possible, but I have pointed it too by mistake. :p)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 14:10, 22 May 19
Sure. See the annotated picture with arrows to point some areas where the arcade versions looks embossed (dark/light edges) but flat like on a same level on the current CPC remake work.
(about the spaceship shadow, I can understand that is not possible, but I have pointed it too by mistake. :p)


Thanks a lot! I'll work on those specific tiles. About the spaceship shadow, I did some performance tests and maybe I'll include it in the final product, depending on the final performance results.


Abalore
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 15:05, 22 May 19
Sure. See the annotated picture with arrows to point some areas where the arcade versions looks embossed (dark/light edges) but flat like on a same level on the current CPC remake work.
(about the spaceship shadow, I can understand that is not possible, but I have pointed it too by mistake. :p)


Hi again,


I redesigned those areas to look more embossed. It's the best I can do because unfortunately I'm not a pixel artist.


Regarding that, I'm open to colaboration with artists, so I make a call for artists who want to collaborate in the project.


Regards,
Abalore


Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 17:52, 22 May 19
Yes, it is better. ;)

I will do some test if I found the tiles.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 16:35, 24 May 19
Regarding that, I'm open to colaboration with artists, so I make a call for artists who want to collaborate in the project.
I will be proud to help. Here, two mock-ups... ;) 
(the emboss effect can be improved if tiles are redraw... Here, just some work over your picture)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: AHack on 09:41, 20 June 19
Wow, this all looks impressive. There are quite a few games in the works at the moment for the Amstrad CPC that show what it can achieve!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 23:19, 26 July 19
Just a small video of the game running from a cartridge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnGuKhPLBE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnGuKhPLBE)


The cartridge provides:


- Extra RAM to make the game compatible with 64KB machines
- 3 extra AY audio channels
- Autoboot
- Instant load
- Continuous levels

The cartridge has been designed and built by TotO
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 09:03, 27 July 19
Playcity support !!! , very nice  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 20:58, 27 July 19
Just a small video of the game running from a cartridge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnGuKhPLBE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnGuKhPLBE)


The cartridge provides:


- Extra RAM to make the game compatible with 64KB machines
- 3 extra AY audio channels
- Autoboot
- Instant load
- Continuous levels

The cartridge has been designed and built by TotO
Extremely cool!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Gryzor on 14:39, 30 July 19
When! Where! How much!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 23:27, 30 July 19
If you want to add LambdaSpeak support please let me know, I can help  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 04:29, 31 July 19
If you want to add LambdaSpeak support please let me know, I can help  :) :) :)


Thanks for your offer. I'll keep it in mind
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 03:22, 21 August 19

Title song. Original theme from the great soundtrack by Targhan.

https://youtu.be/Mm8T5nR4ayU
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 08:35, 21 August 19
Great music !!!!  :o :o
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 10:45, 24 August 19
https://youtu.be/yZ8Tsa52-io
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 02:13, 25 August 19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwAXKLoKg84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwAXKLoKg84)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 09:56, 25 August 19

Will it be the first real cartridge game released for CPC ?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 20:47, 20 January 20
https://youtu.be/Q0WzMdCm5iM
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Gryzor on 20:55, 20 January 20
Whoa, seriously great job with the backgrounds... How many K is all that? I wonder...
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 21:13, 20 January 20
The background takes 10 ROM sockets, that is 160 KB
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Gryzor on 21:15, 20 January 20
Less than I imagined. So lovely!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 21:21, 20 January 20
The background takes 10 ROM sockets, that is 160 KB
Great job!  8)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 22:15, 20 January 20
It looks absolutely gorgeous, great job!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: VincentGR on 22:33, 20 January 20
This is arcade quality  :-X
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Gryzor on 23:15, 20 January 20
This is arcade quality  :-X

You're not far off. An old arcade, but yes!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 23:43, 20 January 20
Not as old as the CPC! ;) (Arcade = 1986 / Mega Drive = 1993)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 01:16, 21 January 20
I'm looking forward to the finished product. But can we please have the final name of the game as Slap Fight?
I'm fairly certain most of us aren't Japanese.  ;D

In all seriousness, the original was a mess. Small sprites and invisible flickery bullets. This has so much promise. =D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 11:11, 21 January 20
I'm looking forward to the finished product. But can we please have the final name of the game as Slap Fight? [...] In all seriousness, the original was a mess.
Next, peoples will rename it "Slap Flight 128K", "Slap Fight Reloaded", "Slap Fight Remake", "Slap Fight 2020" to be not confused. :-\
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 11:40, 21 January 20
Next, peoples will rename it "Slap Flight 128K", "Slap Fight Reloaded", "Slap Fight Remake", "Slap Fight 2020" to be not confused. :-\

Just call it "Slap Fight: The original original!"
It's not so short, but it's sweet and to the point.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: cpcitor on 20:12, 21 February 20
Today everybody has an X-MEM or RAM expansion anyway.  :)

Get one! Its worth every penny dozen times!  :) :) :)

Even if I had one, I would target the original CPC anyway in my productions.  Portability to the original thing is sacred.  Else what's the point?  You might as well write SDL code for a modern machine. ;-)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 20:36, 21 February 20
Portability to the original thing is sacred.  Else what's the point?  You might as well write SDL code for a modern machine. ;-)
The CPC originally works with RAM and ROM expansions since the 80's and change nothing into the code. Your remark came form the 90's developers that missunderstand what is a CPC. Your comparaison about the SDL for modern machine is ... "à la rue". :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 20:51, 21 February 20
There were various memory expansions for the CPC but did they sell in enough numbers for the games companies to use them in many (any?) games - don't think so.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 20:58, 21 February 20
There were various memory expansions for the CPC but did they sell in enough numbers for the games companies to use them in many (any?) games - don't think so.
In 80's the CPC problem was more to do 128K dedicated games instead of 64K speccy port, as 464/664 users was able to buy a 64K RAM expansions. About 256K expansions, owners used them for utilities like Discology... Today, hundreds of CPC (and emulators) users have acces to a 512K ROM/RAM expansions.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: cpcitor on 17:08, 22 February 20
The CPC originally works with RAM and ROM expansions since the 80's and change nothing into the code. Your remark came form the 90's developers that missunderstand what is a CPC. Your comparaison about the SDL for modern machine is ... "à la rue". :)

Then you misunderstood my point. It's not about whether expansion RAMs change the code. Amstrad did a very nice design about expansions RAMs.

The point is: when I write a prod for a CPC, my aim is to make something that would have worked in any CPC of any neighbour/friend I had when I was 10.

So, my prods can work off a tape cassette, a disk drive, for a 464, a 664, a 6128, any CRTC version, etc. I don't own any fancy new interface. A jack-to-6128 or jack-to-cassette adapters allow to load to a CPC surprisingly quickly. More enjoyable that 3"1/2 disks actually, less manual steps.

In this situation, my inner child (yes, he's the one that asked me to go here) then says "woaoh, what you do is great"!  He does not care about current emulators.  These emulators are often... "SDL code for a modern machine".

The fact is: if you allow modern parts, even obviously available to anyone now, it's a slippery slope to fuzzy limits.

About 15 years ago I have seen a video about a modified CPC that showed long parts of "The Matrix" as sluggish full-screen video without sound off an IDE drive. It was a demo for the IDE drive interface. I and my inner child were unimpressed. Sure, it could do things that my CPC464 could not. But it's not the computer I had and remains in my heart forever.

I'm probably not the only one to think that way. You might have different goals and motivation and that's okay.

Is my point clearer? Also, I would not call "à la rue" (or worse ;-) any opinion before being sure I understood what the other person meant.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 17:32, 22 February 20
I don't misunderstand your sentence. It is really clear and no interpretation can be done.

I agree to program for stock systems, at less because I'm really respectful about the CPC demo-scene. Using RAM/ROM expansions to increase the software capabilities is legitimate since the 80's and definitively not as well as writing SDL code for a modern machine.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 18:41, 22 February 20
There were various memory expansions for the CPC but did they sell in enough numbers for the games companies to use them in many (any?) games - don't think so.
Few games for 128 KB, right. Fewer, very few for more than 128 KB RAM, but yes the did exist. From memory Black Land (1995) was one.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 18:57, 22 February 20
manufacturing costs are not expensive anymore, even for MANY roms on board. designing a cartridge game for CPC (not talking about the Plus) is easy and will satisfy people who like physical releases.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: reidrac on 20:43, 22 February 20
I always have the same feeling with this recurring topic: where are all those games the "CPC + expansions" advocates are making?

Personally I don't even bother with stock 128K, not only because I don't have a 6128 at home, but also because it would take me few times longer to finish a game (as one man team).

I'm with @cpcitor (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=531) on this one; even if eventually there won't be more 3" disks (and probably tape will have a similar fate I guess), for me stock CPC (and specifically 64K) is the way to go. Releasing games in cartridge sounds cool; why are no people doing it?

There's an Amstrad user group in Spain that is promoting a cart solution and I totally support them; would I make a game *specifically* for this format? Probably not; I can't do more!

Anyway, this project looks amazing and I'm looking forward to see the finished product!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 21:01, 22 February 20
I always have the same feeling with this recurring topic: where are all those games the "CPC + expansions" advocates are making?
The same with recurring peoples speaking about 64K only on expanded systems topic.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: reidrac on 21:02, 22 February 20
The same with recurring peoples speaking about 64K games on expanded systems topic.

I do release games for 64K.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 21:26, 22 February 20
I always have the same feeling with this recurring topic: where are all those games the "CPC + expansions" advocates are making?
This topic is about one of those games  ;D
If the racing game of BG is released, i guess it will use the same hardware (a programmable ROM-card)
The difficulty is to target a kind of universal hardware that interests "everyone"
max ROM + dual-AY seems to be very cool for me

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 21:56, 22 February 20
From my perspective, everyone should code for whatever they want and I would encourage people to not bug around the subject.


If anyone wants a game for a 4MB ram expanded ram, just shut your mouth and do it.


That said, I'd like to see more games take advantage of 128KB+ of ram and/or Plus enhancements.


But there's no point in trying to enhance a game designed for 64KB just for the sake of it, nor try to make Orion Prime run on a 64KB machine and cassette.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 22:04, 22 February 20
just shut your mouth and do it.
:picard: :picard: :picard:
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: cpcitor on 13:55, 23 February 20
- Extra RAM to make the game compatible with 64KB machines
- 3 extra AY audio channels
- Autoboot
- Instant load
- Continuous levels

The cartridge has been designed and built by TotO

From this I take the game can run on a stock CPC6128, off a floppy disk, with simpler music, "regular" load time (for a stock CPC), pause between levels (to load next level). 

Right?  If so, it's all the more impressive and worth many extra bonus points!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 15:12, 23 February 20
The specs have changed and a 64K RAM CPC is enough since November 2019.

Any stock CPC can run the game through its expansion port.
Stock 464 can't load floppy, stock 664/6128 can't load tape.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: cpcitor on 19:53, 23 February 20
The specs have changed and a 64K RAM CPC is enough since November 2019.

Any stock CPC can run the game through its expansion port.
Stock 464 can't load floppy, stock 664/6128 can't load tape.

I'd be thrilled to download even a demo, write it on a floppy and run that on one of my CPCs.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 19:57, 23 February 20
I'd be thrilled to download even a demo, write it on a floppy and run that on one of my CPCs.
May be a demo around the first stage will be possible. Let see what abalore think possible.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 22:20, 23 February 20
The project started as a disc, 128KB only, multiload game. I even sent DSK to several people for testing.
But then it started to grow and I had to make a decision:
1. To keep the disc and the 128KB requirement, and apply severe constrains to the graphics quality.
2. To move the game to a cartridge, making the graphics even better, making the game compatible with 64KB machines and getting rid of multiload.

What tipped the scales was the possibility of adding a secondary AY chip to the cartridge for simultaneous in-game music and sound effects.
Would I say the game is compatible with stock machines? Well, stock machines did support ROM boards, and later models had a cartridge slot. In fact, a disc/128KB version would be compatible with only 2 out of 5 stock models.

The game can be put into a Plus cartridge and played (with no extra sound channels). So we can say it's at least compatible with stock 464+ and 6128+, without discussion.
I think a wide range of users will be able to play the game, even not getting the cartridge, if they have a X-MEM, M4, Dandanator or C4CPC. They can play also in emulators, I managed to run the game even in a FPGA Amstrad and MAME.
All that said, I also understand the point of the super purists that would like a game in the format it would have been back in the day. All I can say about that is this is not my last game, I'll probably make a tape/64kb game at some point.
Greetings,Abalore
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:52, 25 February 20
I think for physical games these days, the cartridge is the way to go, it allows you to fit far more graphics in, and also access it all very simply (e.g., i'd like to use enemy X from level Y here again, no need to duplicate the graphics on multiload) with a little work. If you want a lot of graphics, tunes, large levels, and to keep as much RAM free for mutable game data (double buffer, state, etc) then it's a no brainer.


The modern C64 cartridge games (512KB I think these days) are looking great, but that's because they have all that storage for all the graphics.


Is there a C4CPC variant for M4? I have one for my GX4000 and it's a great bit of hardware.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: sigh on 14:28, 27 February 20
I always feel torn in regards to cartridge when I'm designing game ideas for the Amstrad.


I own a stock 464(with Datel Electronics 64kb memory expansion) and also a 6128 PLUS (with disk drive not working - think the belt may need changing), but my ideas end up having to fit on a 128kb instead of 64kb due to the amount of artwork/animations I produce and the sort of games I'm interested in designing. If I were to take any of my games that are graphically finished and was asked to instead put it onto cartridge - I would automatically want to use all the PLUS features such as the extra colours, hardware sprites/scrolling and the ability to exploit digitized voices to its optimum. I would want it to be a full on PLUS experience for the user- something that would not be easily reproduced on a stock CPC, to the extent that a PLUS could.


However - restrictions can be good as it keeps your game ideas tight and a bit more realistic in terms of getting it finished and avoiding too much feature creep.

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 15:16, 27 February 20
The project started as a disc, 128KB only, multiload game. I even sent DSK to several people for testing.
But then it started to grow and I had to make a decision:
1. To keep the disc and the 128KB requirement, and apply severe constrains to the graphics quality.
2. To move the game to a cartridge, making the graphics even better, making the game compatible with 64KB machines and getting rid of multiload.


3. Have a disc version for 3.5" (Vortex format has 704 KB) and produce for 576 KB RAM.


Why? Everybody has a 3.5" disc drive today - or an HxC floppy emulator. 512 KB RAM expansions are common (X-MEM, SF2, SF3, Revaldhinos RAM expansion, Jareks 4 MB, Dobbertin, dk'tronics and and and). So 576 KB RAM is the new standard. Let use it.  :)
As second AY soundchip you can use the PlayCity from Tot0, it sold quite well.  :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 16:56, 27 February 20

3. Have a disc version for 3.5" (Vortex format has 704 KB) and produce for 576 KB RAM.
rom switching is very different from ram switching
a conventionnal double buffering may not work (if this is what abalore do)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 17:30, 27 February 20
rom switching is very different from ram switching
a conventionnal double buffering may not work (if this is what abalore do)
Right, but he had a disc version before. So this could be a 2nd version for non-Plus users. (CPCs ROM banking is also very different to Plus-ROM banking).
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 13:33, 17 May 20
Hello!
If any user owns a M4 board or a X-MEM board and would like to help testing the game, here is a beta test version.
The installer is a two-sided DSK that uploads the game to the ROM slots from 11 to 31 plus another one in the range 1 - 10 to emulate the cartridge, so you need to have these slots free.

This beta version has all the game features excepting in-game music (it requires the 6 audio channel game cartridge), and it go back to the main menu after the first boss.

The purpose of this beta release is to test the game for bugs, so if you install it please try to get and use all the weapons and ship upgrades. To help on that ,there is a cheat in the game, the left SHIFT key makes the power-up selection rotate.
Installation tips:
- M4 users can (and probably must) run the installer from the M4 itself, but they'll need a way of switching disk sides, most easy way is the "CD ON CPC" button on the web interface.
- M4 installation requires the very last M4 firmware that fixes a certain bug in the ROM flashing command, please ask Duke for it since I don't know if that specific version has been publicly released.- X-MEM installation requires the X-MEM firmware to be in a slot in the board, I tried with FW3.15- Even if you don't have a M4 or X-MEM board you can install and run the game in an emulator with X-MEM support, like Retro Virtual Machine.
Thanks,Abalore

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 14:43, 17 May 20
https://youtu.be/6bsHTRxqe78
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 14:49, 17 May 20
https://youtu.be/6bsHTRxqe78 (https://youtu.be/6bsHTRxqe78)
I never saw such a long play without picking the speed powerup :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 15:55, 17 May 20
Can’t it be played from the dsk image directly on the M4?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 16:07, 17 May 20
Can’t it be played from the dsk image directly on the M4?
You need to "install" it into the ROM slots, because it's not a disc game, but a cartridge one. In return, it works on 64kb machines too.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 16:20, 17 May 20
I see. Cannot the rom files be uploaded via the web interface?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 16:26, 17 May 20
I see. Cannot the rom files be uploaded via the web interface?
Yes, they could. You can even upload them to other ROM boards not supported by the installer.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 16:33, 17 May 20
Would you be so kind as of providing the roms in a zip file so I can upload them to my M4?


I cannot update to the latest firmware because it seems that my board triggers the NMI continuously and keeps resetting.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 16:41, 17 May 20
Would you be so kind as of providing the roms in a zip file so I can upload them to my M4?


I cannot update to the latest firmware because it seems that my board triggers the NMI continuously and keeps resetting.
Sure

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 17:20, 17 May 20
Thanks!


I uploaded the rsx rom to slot 10 and the rest to slots 11 to 31, but when I try to |ALCON, it resets the machine.


Maybe I did something wrong or is there something I forgot?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 17:25, 17 May 20
Thanks!


I uploaded the rsx rom to slot 10 and the rest to slots 11 to 31, but when I try to |ALCON, it resets the machine.


Maybe I did something wrong or is there something I forgot?
Can you post a shot of your ROM panel? Or even better, the output of the |M4HELP command
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: breiztiger on 17:35, 17 May 20
rom 11 is larger than 16ko ???
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 17:41, 17 May 20
It turns out that I had the "Only 16 slots" set on the ROMs page, so after disabling it and uploading the roms again, I find out that it starts, but as @breiztiger (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=612) said, rom 11 is not uploaded because it's larger than 16KB (16958 bytes!) and the game hangs upon start playing.


@Duke (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1624) , it would be nice to get an indication if something fails, as it can get quite confusing.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 18:05, 17 May 20
Don't worry about that ROM size because it is unused code in this beta, but maybe I sent a WIP rom set, please try this new one.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 18:11, 17 May 20
But the best, in my opinion, is to ask Duke for the 2.0.6b1 firmware and install using the installer
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 18:30, 17 May 20
I just cut out the extra bytes of that rom so I could upload it to the M4 and seems to be working fine.


Now let's see if I can progress in the game  :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 18:40, 17 May 20
I just cut out the extra bytes of that rom so I could upload it to the M4 and seems to be working fine.


Now let's see if I can progress in the game  :D
Nice!! you can post the modified file here for someone else having the same issue
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 18:43, 17 May 20
With pleasure!


Btw, I managed to reach the first big tank as in @XeNoMoRPH (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1952) 's video  8)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 19:43, 17 May 20
tried with my 464 + M4
the spaceship seems to be very slow (keyboard)
and the whole thing resets after a few weconds
the title menu is fine  ;D

EDIT: ok, that was the wrong ROM, i get the one from Rob and it's fine (spaceshi still slow BTW)

 
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 20:01, 17 May 20
By the way, where does the demo end?


Does your ship blow up or was I unlucky enough to hit a random bullet? :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 20:05, 17 May 20
By the way, where does the demo end?


Does your ship blow up or was I unlucky enough to hit a random bullet? :D
Yes, spaceship is slow until you get your first star and activate the speed power up
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 20:06, 17 May 20
Yes, spaceship is slow until you get your first star and activate the speed power up
If you passed the boss, congratulations, that's the end of the test. Please try to get all the weapons and test them.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Duke on 20:16, 17 May 20
But the best, in my opinion, is to ask Duke for the 2.0.6b1 firmware and install using the installer
You guys can use v2.0.6b3 from here:
https://www.spinpoint.org/cpc/M4FIRM_v206b3.zip

Just tested and it works alright. Can't remember on top of my head what other changes I made.

Looks great @abalore (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2595) !
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 20:29, 17 May 20
This beta version has all the game features excepting in-game music (it requires the 6 audio channel game cartridge), and it go back to the main menu after the first boss.

Is is by chance compatible to the PlayCity card from Tot0?

As far as I see - fantastic game!!! Very cool!!!  :) :) :)


@abalore (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2595) : If there is a preorder list for this great cartridge game, please put me on that list.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 20:59, 17 May 20
I have tried installing SLAP FIGHT on the M4.

He installed some files (for the change of the disks I had gathered all the files in a folder, because the swap is not physically possible to do it on M4) and now nothing works anymore! The M4 sees it, but the SD card is no longer recognized by the M4 device! I don't know what log file has changed ... I have an old backup now I try to restore it with that, but if it doesn't work I don't know what to do anymore!  :(
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 21:15, 17 May 20
Did you overwrite the M4 ROM?
Did you update the firmware?


You can try to delete the ROMslots on the M4 SD card.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 21:32, 17 May 20
Did you overwrite the M4 ROM?
Did you update the firmware?


You can try to delete the ROMslots on the M4 SD card.
Yes, yes! I also restored all the files of an old (working) backup but the SD is no longer recognized by the M4 ... a mystery!  ???

The files that I have installed are those present in the two disks that I have loaded below! (renamed in dsk)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 21:45, 17 May 20
Yes, yes! I also restored all the files of an old (working) backup but the SD is no longer recognized by the M4 ... a mystery!  ???

The files that I have installed are those present in the two disks that I have loaded below! (renamed in dsk)
Probably you have to flash the M4, did you try putting the files posted previously in this thread by Duke in the SD root folder?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 21:47, 17 May 20
Is is by chance compatible to the PlayCity card from Tot0?

As far as I see - fantastic game!!! Very cool!!!  :) :) :)


@abalore (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2595) : If there is a preorder list for this great cartridge game, please put me on that list.
The cartridge hardware is done by TotO too, I think it's compatible with the PlayCity, but it depends on the AY chips using the same clock frequency, maybe TotO can sheed more light over this.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 22:44, 17 May 20
Probably you have to flash the M4, did you try putting the files posted previously in this thread by Duke in the SD root folder?
I temporarily solved the problem by reformatting the SD card and restoring the original files (in practice it was as if I were turning on the M4 for the first time) and copying all the old backup. Now everything works, but I don't try to reinstall the SLAP FIGHT files, since there is the risk of creating new chaos! Unfortunately I cannot take advantage of the web interface for installing files. If there is a safe way to install the files "manually" then I will do this test! Now I'm afraid of doing more damage! :-\
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 23:27, 17 May 20
I temporarily solved the problem by reformatting the SD card and restoring the original files (in practice it was as if I were turning on the M4 for the first time) and copying all the old backup. Now everything works, but I don't try to reinstall the SLAP FIGHT files, since there is the risk of creating new chaos! Unfortunately I cannot take advantage of the web interface for installing files. If there is a safe way to install the files "manually" then I will do this test! Now I'm afraid of doing more damage! :-\
Nothing in the installer touches the file system. It is a pure BASIC program that make calls to the |ROMUP command of the M4
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 23:47, 17 May 20
Nothing in the installer touches the file system. It is a pure BASIC program that make calls to the |ROMUP command of the M4
I honestly don't know what happened, probably my manual procedure is not correct to install the program. I'm not very familiar with these things and I will have messed up involuntarily! I'm sorry I can't try it! It looks really beautiful! :(
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 23:59, 17 May 20
I did a bundle with all the required to install the game manually in the M4, the new firmware provided by Duke and the modified ROM 11 along with all others.

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Maniac on 00:40, 18 May 20
This looks awesome and so smooth! Installed on my M4 board no issue (I transferred all the files to the SD card and installed from there for quickness!)


The only thing I've noticed on my 6128 plus is the top 2-3 screen lines tend to flicker/flash as the screen scrolls. I'm guessing this is the way the screen is being drawn and a timing issue that is slightly different on the Plus range? Happy to help with testing this is wanted.


Will try and test with my X-MEM as well when I get a chance.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 00:42, 18 May 20
This looks awesome and so smooth! Installed on my M4 board no issue (I transferred all the files to the SD card and installed from there for quickness!)


The only thing I've noticed on my 6128 plus is the top 2-3 screen lines tend to flicker/flash as the screen scrolls. I'm guessing this is the way the screen is being drawn and a timing issue that is slightly different on the Plus range? Happy to help with testing this is wanted.


Will try and test with my X-MEM as well when I get a chance but I need to reset the ROMs uploaded to it as it won't boot at the moment.
Thanks so much, any feedback is appreciated. I'll take a look at the plus scroll issue.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 01:19, 18 May 20
I did a bundle with all the required to install the game manually in the M4, the new firmware provided by Duke and the modified ROM 11 along with all others.
Then I start again that I probably don't understand how to do it. I try to explain. The new firmware is installed (M4 Firmware version 2.0.6). Should ROM files be copied to the root of the M4 with the whole folder? From that point then what should I do to install them? There is no executable file inside the folder located in the .zip file! Sorry for my poor technical and intellectual skills.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 01:26, 18 May 20
Then I start again that I probably don't understand how to do it. I try to explain. The new firmware is installed (M4 Firmware version 2.0.6). Should ROM files be copied to the root of the M4 with the whole folder? From that point then what should I do to install them? There is no executable file inside the folder located in the .zip file! Sorry for my poor technical and intellectual skills.
Yes, there is no executable because this bundle is for "manual" install. That means it must be installed from the web interface instead from the CPC. The files contained in this bundle cannot be used with the installer because of a different naming convention.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Maniac on 01:31, 18 May 20
Then I start again that I probably don't understand how to do it. I try to explain. The new firmware is installed (M4 Firmware version 2.0.6). Should ROM files be copied to the root of the M4 with the whole folder? From that point then what should I do to install them? There is no executable file inside the folder located in the .zip file! Sorry for my poor technical and intellectual skills.
The best thing to do is to use the FLASH.BAS file and the ROM files from the first ZIP file abalore posted which contains the DSK images. Otherwise the files in the latest ZIP file can be used via the M4 web page where you need to upload the ROMs to the right slots on the ROMS page of the web interface. The ROM numbers are in Hexadecimal so slot 11 in the interface is actually file 0B. The RSX ROM file can be uploaded to any slot between 1 and 10 on the ROMS web page. The only other option is to manually upload the files using the flash commands that the M4 ROM provides.


It isn't necessary in either case to copy the files to the root of the M4 SD card.


What I did was extract the contents of the DSK files to my M4 SD card in a folder called Alcon2020Beta using WinApe and its Edit Disk feature.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 01:43, 18 May 20
The best thing to do is to use the FLASH.BAS file and the ROM files from the first ZIP file abalore posted which contains the DSK images. Otherwise the files in the latest ZIP file can be used via the M4 web page where you need to upload the ROMs to the right slots on the ROMS page of the web interface. The ROM numbers are in Hexadecimal so slot 11 in the interface is actually file 0B. The RSX ROM file can be uploaded to any slot between 1 and 10 on the ROMS web page. The only other option is to manually upload the files using the flash commands that the M4 ROM provides.


It isn't necessary in either case to copy the files to the root of the M4 SD card.

What I did was extract the contents of the DSK files to my M4 SD card in a folder called Alcon2020Beta using WinApe and its Edit Disk feature.
What I would like to try (and I can't) is to install the files manually, without using the web interface. Initially I copied all the files of the two DSKs into a folder which I then copied inside the M4. From there I started the flash.bas file which actually installs all the files (at this tip where I don't know). After finishing the procedure everything freezes and when I go to reset the M4 nothing works anymore and I have to reinstall the firmware by deleting the old files. If you tell me that the installation can only be done from the web interface then I forget! ::)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 02:05, 18 May 20
What I would like to try (and I can't) is to install the files manually, without using the web interface. Initially I copied all the files of the two DSKs into a folder which I then copied inside the M4. From there I started the flash.bas file which actually installs all the files (at this tip where I don't know). After finishing the procedure everything freezes and when I go to reset the M4 nothing works anymore and I have to reinstall the firmware by deleting the old files. If you tell me that the installation can only be done from the web interface then I forget! ::)
Do you have by chance the M4 Lower-rom enabled? You positively need to have it disabled. If not, the installer will overwrite the lower rom slot (31 for instance) and will cause the system crash. Also "Use only 16 slots" must be unchecked.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 02:21, 18 May 20
Do you have by chance the M4 Lower-rom enabled? You positively need to have it disabled. If not, the installer will overwrite the lower rom slot (31 for instance) and will cause the system crash. Also "Use only 16 slots" must be unchecked.
Mission accomplished! Thanks for the support guys! :D 
Now I can finally test it!

The only thing that was wrong was not to assign the first slot of the "ROM-RSX" (always because of the problem of my technical ineptitude)! :doh:

Sorry! Now everything is ok (or at least I think)!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 02:28, 18 May 20
Mission accomplished! Thanks for the support guys! :D 
Now I can finally test it!

The only thing that was wrong was not to assign the first slot of the "ROM-RSX" (always because of the problem of my technical ineptitude)! :doh:

Sorry! Now everything is ok (or at least I think)!


Awesome news!! Enjoy it !!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: norecess on 05:22, 18 May 20
I have to admit that I have great memories of me playing the original Slap Fight when I was a kid, so it will be hard to raise the bar....
...well, that's what I initially thought :) This version of the game is really impressive so far !!
It never slows down nor glitches even when many enemies are displayed, technically I'm impressed.
Visually too, awesome work: I personally really do enjoy the work on shadows (when I compare to the original Slap Fight we got, they "solved" the shadows by using black ink.. but you weren't lazy on that front).
The entry music is fantastic, expecting same quality later for in-game. :)
Thumb up!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 09:25, 18 May 20
The game also works on Symbiface III, with the modified rom from @robcfg (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4) , thx :) and Gflorez for test it :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 14:23, 18 May 20
I have to admit that I have great memories of me playing the original Slap Fight when I was a kid, so it will be hard to raise the bar....
...well, that's what I initially thought :) This version of the game is really impressive so far !!
It never slows down nor glitches even when many enemies are displayed, technically I'm impressed.
Visually too, awesome work: I personally really do enjoy the work on shadows (when I compare to the original Slap Fight we got, they "solved" the shadows by using black ink.. but you weren't lazy on that front).
The entry music is fantastic, expecting same quality later for in-game. :)
Thumb up!
Thank you! All credit from graphics is from TotO and music from Targhan.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 15:31, 18 May 20
Hi all!
thanks everyone for testing the game. Here I'm posting a second version of the beta with ROM size fixes and a change many people asked for: Increase the spaceship speed.
No "manual" installation files will be provided for this version, for people who are not able to change the disk side in M4 via the web interface, they have just to create a new folder in M4, copy the contains of both disks to it and run "flash.bas".
Please remember to set the RSX ROM number during installation, not setting it can lead to unexpected results.

Abalore

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 17:01, 18 May 20
new version is more enjoyable  8)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Maniac on 00:11, 19 May 20
Managed to install on my X-Mem board now and all working. Although I had to flash the ROMs manually to it as when I tried to use the installer it crashed after loading the first ROM. That may be me using the M4 as the source of the files but it worked when I did it by hand using the Flasher util on the X-Mem disk.


I think I may have found a bug; when playing it was moving the ship about and pressing SHIFT repeatedly to try and get all of the power-ups etc - after about 5 presses and may be a couple of FIRE2 presses in-between the game crashed showing 4 copies of the status bar that's normally at the bottom. This may be nothing and wholly related to the cheat currently available but thought I'd mention it.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 01:18, 19 May 20
Managed to install on my X-Mem board now and all working. Although I had to flash the ROMs manually to it as when I tried to use the installer it crashed after loading the first ROM. That may be me using the M4 as the source of the files but it worked when I did it by hand using the Flasher util on the X-Mem disk.


I think I may have found a bug; when playing it was moving the ship about and pressing SHIFT repeatedly to try and get all of the power-ups etc - after about 5 presses and may be a couple of FIRE2 presses in-between the game crashed showing 4 copies of the status bar that's normally at the bottom. This may be nothing and wholly related to the cheat currently available but thought I'd mention it.
Thanks for the feedback! That bug usually happens when interrupts are disabled for too long, losing the split screen synchro. It's for sure a sprite drawing routine being too long without the proper delays in between. I'll check all the sprite routines to find what's causing it. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 18:42, 19 May 20
I also had the same crash / bug, but not selecting the weapons with the cheat, but simply playing normally! Actually some "jerk" happens to the video while I change the weapons with the cheat mode, which sometimes generate small (stuff of a small horizontal strip of two or three pixels) graphic glitches in the black area of the screen (outside the area of game).

For the rest an excellent production, which shows a refined programming, a balanced difficulty (in the second version), a remarkable graphic sector and a perfect soundtrack in the title screen (graphically impressive - I wonder where all those colors came from in mode 1). :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: robcfg on 23:26, 19 May 20
Now that I see your picture, it happened to me once, but I though that I just moved the table too much and the M4 made a bad contact...
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: jesusdelmas on 01:09, 20 May 20
Thanks for the feedback! That bug usually happens when interrupts are disabled for too long, losing the split screen synchro. It's for sure a sprite drawing routine being too long without the proper delays in between. I'll check all the sprite routines to find what's causing it. Thanks again!


Hi Abalore! very nice work, i want to ask if you could make a normal disk version for this deme, i dont have any m4 or x-mem totry it :(





Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 01:20, 20 May 20
Now that I see your picture, it happened to me once, but I though that I just moved the table too much and the M4 made a bad contact...
I too had thought this initially (especially after losing a life, with the right automatic curse immediately after), but unfortunately the same thing happened two more times, playing normally... :-\
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 09:23, 20 May 20

Hi Abalore! very nice work, i want to ask if you could make a normal disk version for this deme, i dont have any m4 or x-mem totry it :(
You can still use an emulator
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Axelay on 16:54, 20 May 20

So far this is looking very promising - nice work! - but it looks like it still has some bugs to iron out too, unless they're emulator issues.  I've never used RVM before so I don't know how it is for accuracy.


In terms of bugs, here's a few things I noticed, a couple of which have been mentioned already, but maybe it'll help to repeat how they occurred for me.  The list has ended up surprisingly long, so sorry about that, and I guess some are so obvious you'll already be well aware of them anyway, but you asked for feedback on bugs, so, I am obliging.  :D


I've had 3 occasions where the screen suddenly 'rolled' briefly, as though screen sync was lost for a frame.  Only the play area dropped downwards, the score panel remained where it was.  For what it's worth, on at least two of these occasions, I'm fairly sure it coincided with something blowing up.


Possibly related, I've also had the game flat out crash just when I died on one occasion.  I've attached the SNA from RVM in case that's a help, but probably not.


The first hexagonal white moving enemy that appears on the left of the screen seems to always leave a row of rubbish off the side of the screen, 4 pixels long and 1 pixel high.


On one occasion, I believe I destroyed the last ground emplacement on the right edge of the screen just before the boss and it did not leave a crater.  The game was a bit busy at the time though, so I can not be 100% sure that it didn't alternatively not place the turret at all.  All I know for sure is after all the enemies were cleared, the space where that turret should be was 'clean' with no wreckage.  This has only happened the once though, maybe I was imagining things...


The last two aren't necessarily bugs and might be me just not liking how it is, but anyway. :)


On one occasion, I picked up a star on the very right of screen.  This got me to the missiles, so I pushed fire 2 to activate it.  This moved the ship to the left automatically, picking up an additional star that happened to be sitting to the left of the one I'd just collected in the process.  The game then moved the power up selector to the shield and gave me the shield when the ship stopped auto moving.  I don't know if that's how it's meant to be working, but I'd prefer to get the power up I selected when I pushed fire 2, regardless of if the ship then collects another star after that during an auto move.  Of course this also only happened the once, so again, maybe I imagined it.


Collision detection - several things.  Not sure how easy it is to adjust but I have found a few different things that feel a bit off with it to me.  They are:


The standard player shot can pass through the left side of enemies.  It's most noticeable with the blue stationary enemies, where if you fire a shot to the left of it, the right player bullet can pass right over the enemy without colliding.


Conversely, I have found that the player can sometimes pass almost halfway over the right side of the star pickups before it registers as collected.  This can seem even more obvious when the ship has been enlarged with the first of the 'widen' power ups.


Final collision issue.  When using the very fast laser, it does not seem to be hitting enemies just in front of the player.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 17:25, 20 May 20
i had the triple HUD bug too
a few moment after i selected weapon 5
i was firing and firing, mostly missing the ennemies then...
too much sprites on screen?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 18:20, 20 May 20
On one occasion, I picked up a star on the very right of screen.  This got me to the missiles, so I pushed fire 2 to activate it.  This moved the ship to the left automatically, picking up an additional star that happened to be sitting to the left of the one I'd just collected in the process.  The game then moved the power up selector to the shield and gave me the shield when the ship stopped auto moving.  I don't know if that's how it's meant to be working, but I'd prefer to get the power up I selected when I pushed fire 2, regardless of if the ship then collects another star after that during an auto move.  Of course this also only happened the once, so again, maybe I imagined it.
This is a very interesting issue, I'm seriously thinking of removing the feature of moving the ship to the center when activating a weapon.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 19:09, 20 May 20
Hi Abalore! very nice work, i want to ask if you could make a normal disk version for this deme, i dont have any m4 or x-mem totry it :(
Well, it's always worth to buy some kind of ROM-Box for the CPC. X-MEM and M4 work wonders and they are super cheap regarding their awesome features. Try it and it will enrich your CPC life.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 19:13, 20 May 20
I definitely removed the spacehip autocentering feature and fixed the laser distance issue
https://youtu.be/K126wfgIWdQ
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: roudoudou on 19:14, 20 May 20
Well, it's always worth to buy some kind of ROM-Box for the CPC. X-MEM and M4 work wonders and they are super cheap regarding their awesome features. Try it and it will enrich your CPC life.  :) :) :)
I guess the game will be released in a physical version to plugged on expansion slot so the only thing he is missing is the beta  :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 19:19, 20 May 20
I guess the game will be released in a physical version to plugged on expansion slot so the only thing he is missing is the beta  :D
Well, if people don't want to buy a physical copy or already have an let's say X-MEM + PlayCity then (as I assume) it's great to be able to use this great game on any ROM box.
In addition, as you know, sometimes people see a "new" game and want to get it, but it's sold out.

For example: When Cyber Chicken was sold (111 physical copies made) it took IIRC about 2 years. But years after I still got emails like "Oh I saw your new game - can I buy it somewhere".  :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 00:59, 22 May 20
Hello!
Here is the Level 1 Beta version 3 with huge improvements:
- Improved stability, crash source have been identified and fixed.
- Improved collisions: Bigger collision box for some enemies and a lot more accurate collision check.
- New Weapon interface, with new icons and new info text
- All screen side artifacts have been removed by carefully reviewing and fixing all enemy paths
- New Laser weapon with new graphics for improved visibility and better performance
- More gameplay to test: a new bunch of enemies unlocked after the boss including new enemy classes

Thanks everyone for your invaluable feedback, let's keep making this game more and more enjoyable!
Abalore
PD: @Axelay (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=84) I think all the issues you posted have been solved
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Axelay on 13:58, 22 May 20
@abalore (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2595) Cool, I'll hopefully try it out over the weekend sometime.  :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Mr. DVG on 17:04, 23 May 20
Played thoroughly and I have not encountered any technical problems (no bugs / crashes or graphic artifice during gameplay). The new additions are exceptional, although the "homing missile" weapon, having black bullets, tends to blend in with some elements of the backdrop. I died immediately after killing the first boss and the demo continued up to area 80 (I enjoyed the excellent panorama of the scenarios) ... after area 80 and the "red zone" the backdrop started to "decompose" in various graphic material and then I turned off my Amstrad CPC...

It was a beautiful experience! :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 19:05, 23 May 20
Played thoroughly and I have not encountered any technical problems (no bugs / crashes or graphic artifice during gameplay). The new additions are exceptional, although the "homing missile" weapon, having black bullets, tends to blend in with some elements of the backdrop. I died immediately after killing the first boss and the demo continued up to area 80 (I enjoyed the excellent panorama of the scenarios) ... after area 80 and the "red zone" the backdrop started to "decompose" in various graphic material and then I turned off my Amstrad CPC...

It was a beautiful experience! :D
Yes, the homing missile sprites are placeholders, in fact, they have been changed already. Furthermore... almost every weapon and even your spaceship have changed in both graphics and behavior. But I guess all that will be a surprise for the final release!
I don't know how you managed to see the scenario up to area 80, but congratulations! The unexpected gaming experiences are always the best and the game background art by @TotO (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) is really amazing.

Thanks so much for testing the game.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Maniac on 02:38, 25 May 20
Hello!
Here is the Level 1 Beta version 3 with huge improvements:
- Improved stability, crash source have been identified and fixed.
- Improved collisions: Bigger collision box for some enemies and a lot more accurate collision check.
- New Weapon interface, with new icons and new info text
- All screen side artifacts have been removed by carefully reviewing and fixing all enemy paths
- New Laser weapon with new graphics for improved visibility and better performance
- More gameplay to test: a new bunch of enemies unlocked after the boss including new enemy classes

Thanks everyone for your invaluable feedback, let's keep making this game more and more enjoyable!
Abalore
PD: @Axelay (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=84) I think all the issues you posted have been solved
Awesome as ever. Really like the changes. Sorry to say that the issues with the Plus persist with the scrolling at the top of the screen but fully realise that this is not going to impact the vast majority. As always happy to help if needed.


Keep up the great work - I love it even if I'm not that great at the game!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 11:01, 26 May 20
This is a very nice remake and indeed an impressive soundtrack in the title screen, as Mr. DVG wrote. I only saw it on a Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHGHxhyJfY) which the hard-working guys or guy at Indy Retro News linked to, today. (https://www.indieretronews.com/2020/05/alconslap-fight-abalores-amstrad-port.html)

Does this title soundtrack use the CPC's standard AY-soundchip with 3 channels, or does it use the mentioned additional AY chip from the cartridge with additional 3 channels, so giving 6 channels in total?

In any case, sounds amazing.
And the whole game looks really excellent (according to the videos I saw). Well done Abalore, and TotO (graphics) and Targhan (music/sound) !
 
It's so nice to see our good old CPC and its scenery being so highly active. I wouldn't have imagined that 35 years ago!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 04:23, 27 May 20
This is a very nice remake and indeed an impressive soundtrack in the title screen, as Mr. DVG wrote. I only saw it on a Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHGHxhyJfY) which the hard-working guys or guy at Indy Retro News linked to, today. (https://www.indieretronews.com/2020/05/alconslap-fight-abalores-amstrad-port.html)

Does this title soundtrack use the CPC's standard AY-soundchip with 3 channels, or does it use the mentioned additional AY chip from the cartridge with additional 3 channels, so giving 6 channels in total?

In any case, sounds amazing.
And the whole game looks really excellent (according to the videos I saw). Well done Abalore, and TotO (graphics) and Targhan (music/sound) !
 
It's so nice to see our good old CPC and its scenery being so highly active. I wouldn't have imagined that 35 years ago!
Hi Otto,
thanks for  your words, the music is standard CPC sound.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: LewisCPC on 23:34, 27 May 20
Incredible work! I have an original arcade board running in my arcade.

I need to get on this! can anyone link me to a shop that will sell me an X mem expansion?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 10:22, 28 May 20

In any case, sounds amazing. And the whole game looks really excellent (according to the videos I saw). Well done Abalore, and TotO (graphics) and Targhan (music/sound) !
It's so nice to see our good old CPC and its scenery being so highly active. I wouldn't have imagined that 35 years ago!
Thank you! Probably you have preferred the music was Otto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoniq_ES-5506_OTTO) !  ;D

Incredible work! I have an original arcade board running in my arcade. I need to get on this! can anyone link me to a shop that will sell me an X mem expansion?
Thank you! It is just a short beta demo. The X-MEM does nothing special for the game, except storing the ROM by commodity. If you want to buy it because you need a RAM/ROM expansion, you can contact me. Depending of your usage, the demo works on the M4 board too.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 11:12, 28 May 20
Hi Otto,
thanks for  your words, the music is standard CPC sound.
Thanks for the answer. I already loved the original 1987 tune, but yours from Thargan ist incredible.


Thank you! Probably you have preferred the music was Otto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoniq_ES-5506_OTTO) !  ;D
Nice! Didn't know that such an Otto chip exists. :-)

I send greetings to you three in Spain and France.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Targhan on 12:00, 28 May 20
Thanks for all your kind words.

Just to clarify:
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 12:35, 28 May 20
Thanks for the clarification, Targhan!
Quote
  • the title music is original
Since I lack the hardware to run the remake, I only watched various videos showing the remake in action. Its title tune starting at minute 5, 55 secs here in this video from the Retro News guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHGHxhyJfY) sounds a lot better than the title tune from the CPC 1987 original.

Is this because I play the CPC 1987 original within an emulator (MAME 0.220), or does the remake title tune has got some "Targhan treatment", too? (Like your mentioned in-game tunes, which unfortunately I didn't hear so far but which I am going to like for sure!)

Question to modern-PC tech-tech guys: Is there any chance we can run the Slap Fight remake on an emulator on Linux, like MAME which happily emulates the CPC range including the CPCplus machines ?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 13:56, 28 May 20
The new Title Music isn't present on the demo to not spoil.  ;)
Instead, the demo play one of the in-game music with "Targhan treatment".

About the current SFX, they are extracted from the arcade but not sound properly.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 14:40, 28 May 20
The new Title Music isn't present on the demo to not spoil.  ;)
Instead, the demo play one of the in-game music with "Targhan treatment".
Now I understand! And indeed I knew it wasn't the 1987 original, and now I see it's one with the  "Targhan treatment". Easy to hear, since it sounds absolutely amazing. I think it's one of the best CPC tunes I heard (the in-game tune from the video at minute 5, second  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHGHxhyJfY)53 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHGHxhyJfY) which the demo plays also at the title screen).

You three do a great job. Keep on the good work. Long live the king – or CPC in this case.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 16:58, 28 May 20
Let me ask the technical things... It seems to be MODE 1, but seems to have more than four colors. Which technique do you use?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 17:10, 28 May 20
It seems to be MODE 1, but seems to have more than four colors. Which technique do you use?
When looking at the game demo videos, I'm pretty sure that only the title screen is Mode 1 with various colour rasters to get more colours accross vertical raster lines.Whereas in-game the classical mode 0 with 16 colours is being used.
(Please correct me if I am wrong.)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 17:11, 28 May 20

Let me ask the technical things... It seems to be MODE 1, but seems to have more than four colors. Which technique do you use?
The title screen is MODE 1 with rasters. The in-game graphics are Sub-Pixel Mode 0 to have the picture sharp and colourful.

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: cpcitor on 18:14, 28 May 20
Of course I love this production like everyone. It's so superior to the original port in every way.

I just happened to have noticed something. https://youtu.be/YlHGHxhyJfY?t=415

The landscape is gorgeous, the colors are well chosen for a nuanced palette, softened with dithering.

The shadows are soft and accurately convey depth information: ramps, trees, towers, etc. Destroying a shadow-casting object removes the shadow, too, nice!

The ship must be high above the landscape since it flies over all those items, especially the high cone-shaped tower tops.

But but but. There's something that destroys the feeling when you know it.

Spoiler: show

The shadow of the player's spaceship is black and very very close to the ship's shape.

This conveys the conflicting visual information that the ship is actually very close to the ground.

What could be done?

Drawing an accurate shadow would require the game engine to:
1 actually know the depth at each location on the ground.
2 figure out where to place the shadow
3 including when the shadow is cut in pieces by discontinuity (see for example shadow of one of the lamps on https://www.gridsecondlife.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/PL_EM_070906-05.jpg )

This is imho irrealistic to expect from the CPC.

A solution would be to remove the shadow altogether (I remember it was not there at the beginning), pretending that "the ship is so high, its shadow is outside of the screen dude!". Which actually make kind of sense.

I remember the shadow was added for better contrast of the ship against the ground.
To preserve contrasts, maybe surround the ship with a black outline all around ?



How did they solve this problem in arcade games? (Did they?)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Targhan on 19:03, 28 May 20
Quote
The new Title Music isn't present on the demo to not spoil.  ;)
Instead, the demo play one of the in-game music with "Targhan treatment".

Oh I'm sorry, now I'm the one adding confusion :). The "real" title music has been shown in a previous video, so I expected it to be included in the game preview (which I didn't attempt to test). So it seems you heard the level 1 music instead, which IS an adaptation.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Carnivius on 20:02, 28 May 20
All sounds impressive. I just don't understand how to run it myself.  I use emulators and haven't a clue about x-men's and roms and such. I just tried loading dsk 1 into the emulator and i get a message about rom installing and I'm left staring blankly. :P
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 20:31, 28 May 20
Oh I'm sorry, now I'm the one adding confusion :) . The "real" title music has been shown in a previous video, so I expected it to be included in the game preview (which I didn't attempt to test). So it seems you heard the level 1 music instead, which IS an adaptation.
Absolute great adaption! Love it: the music, the graphics, and the programm of course. So far only from video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHGHxhyJfY) (showing as title-screen: LEVEL 1 BETA TEST)
This adaption is still 3 channel AY-sound? Or 3+3 channels from the additional AY chip sitting on the cartridge?

I just don't understand how to run it myself.  I use emulators and haven't a clue about x-men's and roms and such.
Same here.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 20:58, 28 May 20

The shadow of the player's spaceship is black and very very close to the ship's shape. This conveys the conflicting visual information that the ship is actually very close to the ground. What could be done? [...] How did they solve this problem in arcade games? (Did they?)
Thank you for your feedback. See it like an half-outline usually applied on fonts to have them more readable and not a real shadow. Removing that does the ship obviously less visible. Adding a full outline look really strange and increase the sprite width (or reduce the details). A largest/adaptive shadow will waste the display bandwidth. Into the arcade machine, they use a free sprite transparency.

If something is doable at end, it will be (currently, the ship is no more as shown on the beta version).
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 21:38, 28 May 20
@Carnivius (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=50) and @Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982) : Using the RVM emulator with the X-MEM installer is the more easy to beta test.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 22:50, 28 May 20
@Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982),    it's in spanish, but you will see it well :)

https://youtu.be/iQ0uFYmwpDE (https://youtu.be/iQ0uFYmwpDE)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 00:20, 29 May 20
The title screen is MODE 1 with rasters. The in-game graphics are Sub-Pixel Mode 0 to have the picture sharp and colourful.
That means you switch between a MODE 1 and a MODE 0 screen? Sorry, can't tell from the video.


From the GFX this one may be #1 in CPC games. Gameplay and sound are gorgeous too. I would make any bet, that people on commodore meetings would rather loose their soul instead of admitting that this is running on a CPC.  ;D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 08:48, 29 May 20
@Carnivius (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=50) and @Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982) : Using the RVM emulator with the X-MEM installer is the more easy to beta test.
Great, thanks!

@Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982),    it's in spanish, but you will see it well :)
Excellent video, many thanks. Looks very good, I'll soon try RVM on my machine running Ubuntu, too.

Your video is in Spanish language, so „That's Greek to me“ but indeed a picture is worth a thousand words. :-)

I send pre-Pentecost greetings to Spain!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Carnivius on 11:42, 29 May 20
@Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982),    it's in spanish, but you will see it well :)

https://youtu.be/iQ0uFYmwpDE (https://youtu.be/iQ0uFYmwpDE)
OK cool. Eventually got there (I just didn't know where that FW rom thing was til I clicked my way through to the video and to the blog in the comments kinda blindly cos i don't understand spanish). 
Thanks :D
Yeah very cool and impressive. :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 12:09, 29 May 20
Here an idea:

Why not to make an installer for the Y-MEM from Tot0 too?

In this case only one ROM would be needed between ROM numbers 1-15 and to intall something into Y-MEM is nearly the same as to install into X-MEM.  :) :) :)

This would enable us to leave our X-MEM / M4 untouched. (I got plenty of software in them already, and it's time consuming to switch between ROM sets).  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 14:43, 29 May 20
Here an idea:Why not to make an installer for the Y-MEM from Tot0 too?
Because the Y-MEM is an unofficial board from the X-MEM for some developers wanting more RAM/ROM.
You can edit the BASIC installer to dedicate your Y-MEM for that. I imagine that will not cause any problem. :)

Now, RVM could easy support it by extending the memory to 1MB and the ROM range up to 31.

  TotO

Hey, since some posts you write Tot0 instead... :-\
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 16:05, 29 May 20
@Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982),    it's in spanish, but you will see it well :)
In your fine video (https://youtu.be/iQ0uFYmwpDE) at minute 1, second 52, you attach to the Virtual-Retro-Machine emulator's X-Mem-window a firmware file named FW315EXP.ROM

Where can we get this file, please?

Because without it, when we insert Abalore's provided .dsk image files (from „Alcon2020 Level 1 Beta v3.zip“) and run the FLASH.BAS from there, it says: Firmware missing.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Carnivius on 17:30, 29 May 20
In your fine video (https://youtu.be/iQ0uFYmwpDE) at minute 1, second 52, you attach to the Virtual-Retro-Machine emulator's X-Mem-window a firmware file named FW315EXP.ROM

Where can we get this file, please?

Because without it, when we insert Abalore's provided .dsk image files (from „Alcon2020 Level 1 Beta v3.zip“) and run the FLASH.BAS from there, it says: Firmware missing.

Thanks!
Took me a lil while to find it but I explained here. :P

OK cool. Eventually got there (I just didn't know where that FW rom thing was til I clicked my way through to the video and to the blog in the comments kinda blindly cos i don't understand spanish). 

to be clearer I clicked the video  to go to youtube page, clicked the information under the video to go to a blog and clicked on a link on the blog and it took me back to the CPCWiki forum but on a different page where Toto provides the file. :)
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/firmware-3-1-megaflash/75/#msg91505 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/firmware-3-1-megaflash/75/#msg91505)


(under that 00WREX then added it to the cpcwiki's main list of roms which is now prob where i'll go first anytime i hear of a needed rom thought it a big list. :)   http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ROM_List (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ROM_List)   )



Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 18:18, 29 May 20
Sorry, I didn't know it's unofficial. It's a great piece of hardware and to have ROMs from 0 to &3F is great for development anyway.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: TotO on 22:12, 29 May 20
Where can we get this file, please?
http://centpourcent.net/download/xmem_digital.zip
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 10:21, 30 May 20
Thank you Carnivius and Toto for the Firmware file, now Slapfight/Alcon 2000 runs very good.

What I don't understand with the Virtual-Retro-Machine (VRM) emulator and Alcon2000 running in it, is that VRM shows a plain CPC6128 as virtual machine, whereas Alcon2000 uses the CPCplus features like hardware scrolling and better palette – I suppose. Or does it not?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Carnivius on 13:42, 30 May 20
Thank you Carnivius and Toto for the Firmware file, now Slapfight/Alcon 2000 runs very good.

What I don't understand with the Virtual-Retro-Machine (VRM) emulator and Alcon2000 running in it, is that VRM shows a plain CPC6128 as virtual machine, whereas Alcon2000 uses the CPCplus features like hardware scrolling and better palette – I suppose. Or does it not?
I dunno about scrolling but Alcon2000 uses regular CPC palette from what I can see. Just used very well.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Otto on 10:39, 02 June 20
I dunno about scrolling but Alcon2000 uses regular CPC palette from what I can see. Just used very well.
Now I understand, thanks Carnivius for the clarification!

So Slap Fight 2020 doesn't need the CPCplus hardware (hardware sprites, hardware scrolling, larger palette) but just a standard CPC hardware with a ROM expansion possibilty to insert the game cartridge.

That's even more impressive then: lovely colours from standard CPC palette and great v-scrolling of a huge screen and lots of (software) sprites and cool music/sounds. Excellent work so far. It's so good that I thought it would have to be CPCplus hardware (and back then in the good old days I knew my CPC664 inside out).
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 15:12, 02 June 20
So Slap Fight 2020 doesn't need the CPCplus hardware (hardware sprites, hardware scrolling, larger palette) but just a standard CPC hardware with a ROM expansion possibilty to insert the game cartridge.
Just to clarify, the ROM expansion is required for the BETA. The final game will come in its own cartridge and won't require anything, it will work on a plain 464.


Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 16:05, 04 June 20
Could you please tell us some more about the contents of the cartridge? It has some additional sound features right?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Axelay on 14:59, 05 June 20

I finally had a bit of a go at the new version, and it's good to see the improvements!  One thing though, and bearing in mind I'm playing in an emulator, I still saw a couple of instances of 'desync' again, where the play area briefly rolled downwards.  Both instances were during the boss fight, once when it blew up and another when it reached the top of it's zone and some other enemies appeared.

Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: abalore on 00:38, 06 June 20
Could you please tell us some more about the contents of the cartridge? It has some additional sound features right?


Yes, the cartridge will add 3 sound channels to the CPC for a total of 6. It has other interesting features that will be revealed at the proper time, because some of them are still being decided.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: GUNHED on 00:05, 07 June 20
Thanks. If there is a preorder list, please put me on that.  :)


Edit: About the final game, please don't forget to insert some kind of cheat. Then I may have a chance to reach level 2.  ;) :)
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 20:48, 03 July 20
https://youtu.be/pSeMH7w_X9I
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Gryzor on 12:34, 06 July 20
The CPC is starting to look more and more like an (early) arcade these days... :D
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: Vince on 01:00, 08 July 20
I like that, a lot.

I only knew Slap Fight through Slap & Tickle the example game in SEUCK - Shoot Em Up Construction KIt.

I later played the original coin-op and enjoyed it a lot.

That enemy reminds me of a crab or a spider in its movements.
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: EddieRoyaleWithCheese on 22:21, 08 July 20

Using a collision matrix.


hello. sorry, i am new here. what is a collision matrix and how does one work?
Title: Re: Genesis8 - Remake of Slap Fight (Alcon) by Abalore W.I.P.
Post by: EddieRoyaleWithCheese on 19:41, 11 July 20
Not everybody.  :-[
i dont .