Author Topic: SymbOS 3 released  (Read 10667 times)

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Offline Gryzor

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #25 on: 16:16, 01 September 17 »
Damn.... I mean, where to even start??!


Now, when's the c64 version coming? :D


(anyone worked with GeOS?)

Offline ComSoft6128

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #26 on: 13:58, 03 September 17 »
Hi Prodatron,


I have a 6128 Plus with a 3.5 B drive and Parados on cartridge, the format used for the 3.5 discs is Romdos D20 - can Symbos read and write to this disc format?


I have more than 200 of these discs dating from 20 years ago and plan on using the M4 board and Symbos to retrieve most of the files that are still viable and then transfer them to a PC for permanent storage.


As this is not a hypothetical problem for me I am more than interested in any info you could offer.


Many Thanks,


Peter


Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #27 on: 14:04, 04 September 17 »
Having played around with the SymbOS 3.0 I am absolutely  impressed!!!!  :P The level of detail and effort in doing version 3.0 is awesome! Must have a M4 soon....

A C64 version! I doubt that will ever happen, but I am still hoping to see a version for the Amstrad NC!

Regards,
/Ygdrazil


Damn.... I mean, where to even start??!


Now, when's the c64 version coming? :D


(anyone worked with GeOS?)

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #28 on: 23:41, 04 September 17 »
In 2.1, you had two dsk, main and apps, and you had to swap between the two in order to access different OS tools. That was super annoying. But it seems 3.0 works differently in that regard? You boot with load.dsk and swap for AppsStandard.dsk once loading is done, and there is no need to swap any more? If so, that's super cool.
Regarding this there is no difference between 2.1 and 3.0.
- The boot disc contains everything you need to load during booting (well, that's obvious :) ). This includes the SymbOS core files (SYM., SYMBOS.BIN), the INI file, the SymbOS extension + ini, the screen saver, the background picture and the widgets (everything is optional of couse).
- after booting, you don't need the boot disc anymore and can replace it with any app disc or whatever. As long as you don't change the SymbOS configuration.
- in the past the control panel was located on the boot disc as well. So you could do some changes directly after booting and saved it without the need to swap discs.
- since SymbOS 3 there isn't enough space on a 178K amsdos data disc anymore for storing all compontens needed for booting on expanded systems PLUS the control panel. So I decided to put the Control Panel application files on the "standard application disc" as well. That's the only difference between 2.1 and 3.0.

But there is no need for disc swapping anyway as soon as you don't need to change the SymbOS config anymore. You can store all stuff you need after booting on another disc (and drive) and access it directly. It is not required, that the "system path" is the same like the boot drive. You can set it to drive B as well, if you boot SymbOS from drive A. And anyway the system path is just a shortcut (to keep links smaller). You can set the icon links freely to any location. When using the new Extended Desktop there are no limitations for links anymore.

In your case, I would keep the boot disc in drive A and put everything else on a FAT12 720K disc in drive B and modify the links of the desktop icons and startmenu entries. No need for disc swapping at all. Or even better, use the FAT32 SD card of your HxC as another drive directly and have unlimited space and the possibility to exchange files with a PC very easy! :)

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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #29 on: 23:49, 04 September 17 »
First thing, I have a problem accessing stuff on the internal drive, like SymCommander, with a floppy in drive B and if the motor isn't already spinning: it gives me an error code 26 (device is not ready). If I close the dialogue box and start again quickly enough so that the motors are still spinning, then the application loads. There is no error when trying to access stuff on drive B. Amsdos has no problem either way.
Does this only happen, if you have a floppy in drive B and try to access the internal drive A? Never heard about this... If there is no floppy in drive B it doesn't happen?

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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #30 on: 00:08, 05 September 17 »
I have a 6128 Plus with a 3.5 B drive and Parados on cartridge, the format used for the 3.5 discs is Romdos D20 - can Symbos read and write to this disc format?

I have more than 200 of these discs dating from 20 years ago and plan on using the M4 board and Symbos to retrieve most of the files that are still viable and then transfer them to a PC for permanent storage.

Hi Peter,
there is currently only support for Amsdos DATA, SYSTEM and the PCW single side/single density format.
This weekend I had a look at the Romdos Dxx formats again. When developing the file manager part of SymbOS I was focusing on the original Amstrad formats to keep enough space for FAT12/16/32 support. Now I am wondering, if I could add these additional formats without exceeding the remaining free memory inside the core part of SymbOS. It's nice, that it is still possible to autodetect such discs by reading the sector IDs (e.g. #3x, #5x etc. for Romdos formats).
IIRC the biggest problem are the different cluster sizes, which would require to change some more parts of the code. But I have to check it... Would like to add this format, but I am not sure, if this still fits inside the remaining memory.

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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #31 on: 00:14, 05 September 17 »
Now, when's the c64 version coming? :D
It has the wrong CPU  ;D
But a nice friend and famouse Atari8bit developer from the UK is working on such a system for the 6502 (not sure, if it can ever be ported to the Commodore, as the C64 never had a real useful MMU at all):
http://atari8.co.uk/gui/
He got some inspirations for his system from SymbOS as well (just read the story there).
We were already thinking about using the same IDE for developing apps for both systems (ex SymStudio, now called Quigs).

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Offline ComSoft6128

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #32 on: 07:52, 05 September 17 »
Many Thanks Prodatron.


Cheers,


Peter

Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #33 on: 14:03, 05 September 17 »
Hi There

It is good news the MSX1 got supported in SymbOS 3.0, the more in the SymbOS family the merrier! :D

Just out of curiosity, why has the MSX1 only support when equipped with aGFX9000. I was under the impression that the MSX1 has a VDP of its own!?

Regards,
Ygdrazil

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #34 on: 14:38, 05 September 17 »
It is good news the MSX1 got supported in SymbOS 3.0, the more in the SymbOS family the merrier! :D

Just out of curiosity, why has the MSX1 only support when equipped with aGFX9000. I was under the impression that the MSX1 has a VDP of its own!?
The MSX1 is using the VDP9918, while the MSX is equipped with the more powerful VDP9938.

The 9918 doesn't provide any real bitmap modes. It's still possible to write an MSX1 screen driver for SymbOS, but it will be limited to a resolution of 256x192 with 2 colours by using the attribute based screen mode 2 (ZX Spectrum like).
The VDP (and maybe the missing RTC) is the only "basic" difference between the MSX1 and MSX2. That made it quite easy to allow an MSX1 platform as well, when using the Graphics9000 version :)

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Offline khaz

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #35 on: 00:53, 06 September 17 »
- after booting, you don't need the boot disc anymore and can replace it with any app disc or whatever. As long as you don't change the SymbOS configuration.
- in the past the control panel was located on the boot disc as well. So you could do some changes directly after booting and saved it without the need to swap discs.
- since SymbOS 3 there isn't enough space on a 178K amsdos data disc anymore for storing all components needed for booting on expanded systems PLUS the control panel. So I decided to put the Control Panel application files on the "standard application disc" as well. That's the only difference between 2.1 and 3.0.

That's probably what I was remembering. I haven't touched 2.1 in a while, but I must have had that experience of boot, swap, open an app, swap, change some config, swap, open another app, swap, change another config, swap, etc.

I tried the HxC in mass storage mode, and it works fine, though I just prefer to use floppies: I like having my software on floppies and swapping drives is something I try to avoid. I'll get dedicated mass storage at some point.

Does this only happen, if you have a floppy in drive B and try to access the internal drive A? Never heard about this... If there is no floppy in drive B it doesn't happen?

It happens if I have a floppy in B and try to access A. The other way around, or if only one floppy is inserted, it works fine.

Offline khaz

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #36 on: 01:35, 15 September 17 »
There are a few typos in the manual, but that one is by far my favourite:

Quote
A mouse is the perverted way to have control over your SymbOS home- computer,

 :laugh:

Offline Bryce

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #37 on: 10:32, 15 September 17 »
There are a few typos in the manual, but that one is by far my favourite:

 :laugh:

Sounds like a hardware problem. Where exactly did you plug the mouse in? :D

Bryce.

Offline pelrun

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #38 on: 10:49, 15 September 17 »
On the SymbOS security dialog, there's this text:


"You are logged into SymbOS since 00 hours 20 min"


This seems to be a really common mistake made by native German speakers (at least from my direct experience) - you can't use "since" with a duration, it has to be a concrete point in time - like "since 1989" or "since 5 hours ago". Durations need "for" instead; eg "You have been logged into SymbOS for 00 hours 20 min."

Offline Edoz(MSX)

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #39 on: 11:53, 15 September 17 »
Sounds like a hardware problem. Where exactly did you plug the mouse in? :D

Bryce.

Ops ;) I'm the creator of this manual ;) seems to be my fault :D :D  Anyway, i leave it like this .. because it sounds funny :D :D
No comments about which port i used ;)

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #40 on: 12:36, 15 September 17 »
This seems to be a really common mistake made by native German speakers (at least from my direct experience)
Yes, you are probably right, as we use our "since" ("seit") in such a case as well.

Durations need "for" instead; eg "You have been logged into SymbOS for 00 hours 20 min."
Thank you very much, I will correct it!

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Offline CraigsBar

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #41 on: 02:46, 02 November 17 »
Oops I think I have found a hardware software bug of sorts...

If I connect my Albireo (for the USB mouse) and Playcity  at the same then the mouse buttons are unresponsive. I can move the pointer around with the mouse but neither button or scroll wheel works. Remove the playcity and it all works fine again.

Workaround.... Plug in a joystick and click on that lol.

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk


Offline CraigsBar

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #42 on: 02:48, 02 November 17 »
Oh.... And any chance of an app to set the time from the m4 ntp clock that can run at boot?

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #43 on: 03:07, 02 November 17 »
Oh.... And any chance of an app to set the time from the m4 ntp clock that can run at boot?
Thanks for the hint, I will try to put it into the boot loader!

Oops I think I have found a hardware software bug of sorts...

If I connect my Albireo (for the USB mouse) and Playcity  at the same then the mouse buttons are unresponsive. I can move the pointer around with the mouse but neither button or scroll wheel works. Remove the playcity and it all works fine again.

Workaround.... Plug in a joystick and click on that lol.
Interesting, never had both connected at the same time... Albireo is using #FE8x, Playcity #F[8/9]8x. Have to check it...
 

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Offline ComSoft6128

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #44 on: 03:55, 02 November 17 »
Hi Prodatron,

Any support for RomDos formats?

Cheers,

Peter

Offline CraigsBar

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #45 on: 13:17, 05 November 17 »
Oops I seem to have found another bug. When the Dxs rtc board is attached and symbos 3.0 is booted it seems to corrupt the date stored in the rtc.

After symbos is finished with the rtc cannot be used from basic until the date is reset with a ¦DATE.SET command


Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk


Offline CraigsBar

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #46 on: 13:26, 05 November 17 »
Oops I seem to have found another bug. When the Dxs rtc board is attached and symbos 3.0 is booted it seems to corrupt the date stored in the rtc.

After symbos is finished with the rtc cannot be used from basic until the date is reset with a ¦DATE.SET command


Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk

https://youtu.be/aK6uE3_8sig

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk


Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #47 on: 19:42, 05 November 17 »
Oh, thanks for the hint, that's good to know! (I didn't test the RTC during the last monthes anymore)
I will attach it again and (try to) fix it! :)

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Offline Poliander

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #48 on: 13:37, 17 December 17 »
I just noticed that SymbOS 3.0 does not support the CPC 664, am I right? Screen just goes black when loading and doesn't come back. SymbOS 2.1 does work fine.
Schneider CPC 664 • Schneider CTM 644 • X-MEM • X-MASS 128MB — Schneider CPC 6128 • OSSC • MiniBooster

Offline MacDeath

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Re: SymbOS 3 released
« Reply #49 on: 00:51, 22 December 17 »
I just noticed that SymbOS 3.0 does not support the CPC 664, am I right? Screen just goes black when loading and doesn't come back. SymbOS 2.1 does work fine.

664 as in "only a pathetic RAM of 64k" ?
You can't even launch a desktop background with that...
 ;D