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Author Topic: A good modern TV for retro computers?  (Read 3077 times)

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Offline mr_lou

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A good modern TV for retro computers?
« on: 13:48, 02 January 10 »
Happy New Year everyone.

It's time for us to get a new TV set. Actually we're kinda forced to get one of those modern LCD ones. But it just seems like a jungle. Which one to get?

Are there anyone on this forum who happens to know a lot about it?

Basically we want about 38" or maybe 40" (it's not for a big room).
I've heard it's important to have a good upscaler when dealing with old video signals. But which TVs have a good upscaler?
I've seen TV sets with really slow UI, and I simply don't have any patience for that. When I click "Menu" I don't want to wait 1-2 seconds for the menu to appear.
At least 1 scart plug is needed so I can connect my Amstrad.
Afaik Samsung TVs gives the best picture?

Any help appreciated! Thanks.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #1 on: 11:13, 04 January 10 »
This is such a huge issue...

Beginning from your last question: Pioneers are great too (although now almost extinct), as are Panasonics. I do not recommend a Sony at a low price range, but if you're willing to splash out a little extra then they're fantastic. I wouldn't go for a Phillips or an LG, unless I was really out of money, due to building quality.

I've got a great 42" Bravia myself, the menu is quick and the CPC image looks perfect through SCART. Mentioning which, bear in mind that NOT all SCARTs are the same and compatible with our machines (though the case usually is that if a TV set has an incompatible SCART plug it will also have a compatible one).

I'd suggest finding a friendly retailer, taking the CPC to the shop and hooking it up. Sure, it will look a bit strange, but do take some pics if you do it :D Especially if they let you plug it into the main signal source - you know, the video walls playing all the same signal... :D

Offline mr_lou

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #2 on: 22:44, 04 January 10 »
I ended up getting a Sony 40W5500, which has 2 scart plugs. One of them shows a color picture for a second, then a black'n'white picture for a second, then back to the color picture etc.
But the other scart plug works. The colors aren't that good though. It looks like a C64, and I've tried adjusting it without luck.
So I can't recommend the Sony 40W5500 for the Amstrad CPC. It's ok, but I surely hope there are TV sets out there with better results.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #3 on: 16:05, 05 January 10 »
The first SCART plug problem sounds like it could be corrected by the 9-V battery trick?

The second problem is weird. I've never seen these problems that you have before. The once I have experienced, with incompatible plugs, are either the picture being B&W or not appearing at all... Are you sure you can't fix the settings? I think the 40W5500 is supposed to be a good one...

Offline mr_lou

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #4 on: 19:18, 05 January 10 »
Hmm....the 9 volt battery trick....? Yes I remember reading about that... or seeing some schematics anyway. I never quite understood it. Maybe I'll take another look at it some day. For now it's not a TV I'll be using for my CPC as such. It was just nice to know that it worked, for some special retro nostalgia time. :-)

For now we have a PC and an Amiga1200 connected to it. :-) That'll be it for the first period.
I'll check out that battery-thingy. I assume there are some info about it in the wiki, that explains why and how and such.

Offline Bryce

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #5 on: 20:26, 05 January 10 »
Hi Mr lou,
        the black and white to colour switching is typical problem with the chipset used in modern LCD TVs, I added a third alternative connection plan to the SCART Cable wiki page which doesn't need a 9V battery and might also be worth trying, I know it solves the problem on JVC LCD TVs.

Bryce.

Offline mr_lou

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #6 on: 22:10, 05 January 10 »
Thanks Bryce.

I'll try to make that cable in the near future. :-)

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #7 on: 15:20, 08 January 10 »
Hi Mr lou,
        the black and white to colour switching is typical problem with the chipset used in modern LCD TVs, I added a third alternative connection plan to the SCART Cable wiki page which doesn't need a 9V battery and might also be worth trying, I know it solves the problem on JVC LCD TVs.

Bryce.

Really? So, aside from different SCART versions we also have incompatible SCART plugs throughout time?

Offline Bryce

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #8 on: 15:52, 08 January 10 »
No. The connector and pinout are identical, the difference is the hardware behind the socket. On an older analogue TV (CRT), the entire circuit is more or less analogue, and you can feed what you want into it and most of the time it will work with a little tuning. The SCART on LCD and Plasma TVs is digital and is being processed by a CPU before it gets to the screen. The TV hardware has to sample the analogue signal and convert it to a digital signal it can work with. If the signal isn't 100% within the SCART specification, the sample rates won't match and the sampling hardware gets confused. This can result in A) A screen that never syncs properly (eg: the screen rolls permanently) B) Jitter between colours (eg: the edge of text seems to jump left and right all the time) C) Signal mode switching (eg: the picture keeps switching between b/w and colour). The signal from a CPC is far from SCART standard, but good enough to get the analogue circuit to play along, LCD/Plasma isn't so forgiving.

Every manufacturer has their own hardware/software, some more forgiving than others. Current JVC LCD for example is quite forgiving on the composite input, but the SCART produces colour jitter or mode switching with the CPC signal. Panasonic Plasma on the other hand won't accept the composite produced by the MC1377 used in an MP1/2 at all (haven't tried the SCART yet). This probably isn't a solid rule though, as manufacturers probably change both the A/D hardware and CPU software on a regular basis.

This is the price we pay for going out and buying fancy flatscreens to impress our friends :)

Bryce.

Offline mr_lou

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #9 on: 22:14, 08 January 10 »
This is the price we pay for going out and buying fancy flatscreens to impress our friends :)

Which is exactly one of the reasons we've waited so long before buying one. If it wasn't for the new digital signal in the air here in Denmark, we would have sticked with our CRT TV. But since we had to buy either a box or a TV, we went with the TV because we like to watch movies, and figured it was time to try out Blu-Ray as well. (So currently looking for a Blu-Ray player too).

For a looong time I've been searching for 14" CRT TV's for our old machines though, and we've bought at least 5 that we had to throw out again, because they smell like burned electronics when they're turned on.  :(
So we're finding it quite difficult finding a decent 14" CRT TV these days.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #10 on: 09:22, 09 January 10 »
Bryce, hats off to you mate... you surely know your stuff!

I wonder if I could hook up my CPC to my arcade cabinet, sporting a 24" Hantarex CRT monitor. I guess it'd require some soldering and some risk of blowing it up...

Offline Bryce

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #11 on: 16:58, 09 January 10 »
With an MP1/2 or with the composite circuit I described on the LCD/Plasma Wiki page it probably wouldn't be that difficult, a lot of those arcade cabinets would have had a point somewhere on the CRT circuit board where the signal would be composite and you could feed the signal in at that point, the hardest part would be finding the point if you don't have schematics.

Bryce.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #12 on: 13:54, 18 January 10 »
...and of course I don't have the schematics :D And I'm not too sure about its tolerances - I wouldn't want to blow it up :(

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #13 on: 14:16, 19 February 10 »
Can any of you chaps recommend a 15 - 17" LCD TV for connecting my 6128 Plus via scart connection?

Offline Bryce

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #14 on: 15:46, 19 February 10 »
Very difficult to say. I found that the JVC LCD TVs gave a great picture, then their new series of TVs came out and couldn't show a picture at all. Panasonic is a definite NO, they don't even accept the Composite signal from the MP1/2. It's really hit or miss unless (like someone else mentioned earlier) you bring your CPC along to a local dealer and try it, or failing that, try it out on friends TVs?

Bryce.

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #15 on: 17:22, 19 February 10 »
The only TV I can get it to work on is a mates DUEL 26" looks fab, but the model he has is now unavailable.

It's such a risk, I wanna buy one but the ones I've tried so far only show half of the screen, I suppose I'll after brave a local retailer and ask them if they'll let me test it first, Tesco and Asda said no? 

Offline Bryce

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #16 on: 17:32, 19 February 10 »
You'll probably have better luck with a small local dealer, not some heartless chain store that don't give 2 $h1ts whether your CPC works or not.

Bryce.

Offline dragon

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #17 on: 12:05, 12 May 19 »
Today (in 2019)is  very difficult find a tv with scart.  My old samsung broke. So i search in local shops in the 24"-32" range.


The problem was scart was obligatory in france by law until 2015 when the law was removed.


Today: samsung.: totally missing, totally crap you cand find rca or maybe yprby. And maybe in the 22"model if you cand find one.


Panasonic:missing. They offer 2hdmi 1 usb tdt2+dvbs2 smart and thats all.
Telefunken:missing.
Lg:missing
Sony: the only of the big marks that conservate one scart. (maybe sony have more compression because the playstations). And with they eternal problem, you can controll all sony with one remote controll.


Loewe: thats a german tv manufacturer. Their tvs are the more expensive, they admit the all old analogic formats using a homemade cable adapter.


Thosiba, they offer a scart, its not really made by thosiba is made with license by a turc company called vestel.


Then where is aviable usually in frace and spain. In alcampo/auchan. They have two propietary marks called qilive and selecline.  The two made from vestel(oh yeah). And the two with scart. The only problems are as they are cheap it lossing smart and dvbt2 and these things.


Philips:low models offer scart, but they tvs are inclinated as the pizza tower. A crap wtf.


Any other tv in 2019 with scart please comment it.


Offline tjohnson

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #18 on: 12:16, 12 May 19 »
In the UK Tesco still sell small screen tvs with 1 scart socket for about 100 gbp.  I bought a 55 inch oled Panasonic a few months back and that has no legacy ports at all no av or scart hdmi and usb only.

Offline pelrun

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #19 on: 17:09, 12 May 19 »
An alternative is to find an LCD monitor (not a TV) that supports 15khz signals on the VGA input, and then wire up a simple passive CPC to VGA cable.


http://15khz.wikidot.com/ has a list of monitors that are known to work, although it's hardly exhaustive.

Offline Bryce

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #20 on: 21:45, 13 May 19 »
Find a DVD recorder with SCART input and HDMI output (there were many) and it should cover you for the next few years.

Bryce.

Offline dragon

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Re: A good modern TV for retro computers?
« Reply #21 on: 23:53, 13 May 19 »
Unfortunly  i have one old targa(lidl). Vhs+dvd combo and use scart to.  :picard2: