Author Topic: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2  (Read 13656 times)

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Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #25 on: 19:47, 05 March 15 »
Perhaps useful:
CPC 6128 System ROM optimized for GT-65 green screen:
Spoiler: ShowHide

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]



Small test program:

Code: [Select]
10 MODE 0
20 FOR t=0 TO 15
30 IF t=1 THEN PEN 15 ELSE IF t=15 THEN PEN 1 ELSE PEN t
40 FOR k=1 TO 20:PRINT CHR$(143);:NEXT
50 NEXT
60 PEN 1
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Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #26 on: 20:16, 06 March 15 »
Greetings to Gryzor (and all other Greek people here!!!)

Spoiler: ShowHide
[attachimg=1]



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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #27 on: 20:18, 06 March 15 »
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *STANDING OVATION*

(of course the letters do not 'align' with the latin ones - for instance, δ is the equivalent of d but Ψ (psi) has nothing to do with C. Still, so cool! :D

Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #28 on: 20:21, 06 March 15 »
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *STANDING OVATION*

(of course the letters do not 'align' with the latin ones - for instance, δ is the equivalent of d but Ψ (psi) has nothing to do with C. Still, so cool! :D

Sure, it's meant just for fun ;-)

I'm sure, the Russian font also doesn't match all letters ;-)
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #29 on: 20:23, 06 March 15 »
Yeah, I was thinking the same :D

Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #30 on: 20:24, 06 March 15 »
But lovely color set, no?  8)
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #31 on: 20:26, 06 March 15 »
Ha, didn't notice the reference... Indeed :) Maybe the inverse would be better, but still a nice touch!

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #32 on: 20:29, 06 March 15 »
Yeah you should download the "greek.rom" file and use it as OS6128.rom replacement ;)
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #33 on: 20:33, 06 March 15 »
Seriously considering this!

Offline TFM

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #34 on: 21:56, 06 March 15 »
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *STANDING OVATION*

(of course the letters do not 'align' with the latin ones - for instance, δ is the equivalent of d but Ψ (psi) has nothing to do with C. Still, so cool! :D


Can you please, please post / send a table which shows exactly which Greek letter shall be put at which latin letter?!?
I'm searching that since ages, but nobody can help. But I want to have the "Greek" option on my CPC too!  :) :) :)
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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #35 on: 22:51, 06 March 15 »

Can you please, please post / send a table which shows exactly which Greek letter shall be put at which latin letter?!?
I'm searching that since ages, but nobody can help. But I want to have the "Greek" option on my CPC too!  :) :) :)

I also then could fix the rom to show proper letters ;)
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Offline ZbyniuR

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #36 on: 23:35, 06 March 15 »
If something wrong with Greek alphabet it's my bad. I did it mostly by this:
Keyboard layout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Exept 3 letters which are on keys HJX probably because of this table:
Greek alphabet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 I though those signs sound similar for those letters in latin. But it should be improve by KEY DEF. And I put special signs on Q and W.

Please Gryzor explain what should be done more properly? :)

I suppose on PC you using this:
Windows-1253 – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia
But it is hard to do on CPC because codes till 240 to 255 are control codes. I had similar problem when I tried to made program to display text for PC on CPC by Windows-1250 and 1252. I meant is no problem with display, but if you try typing you need put some letters twice, once by Windows codes and second somewhere else.
On my Fonts DSK in 0.BAS there is French German Spanish Scandinavian and Netherland Y on some keys with Ctrl. ;)  By this:

¡é3456èùçàß
qw€rtÿuiopüå
asdfghjklöäø
zxcvbñm,.¿æ

Maybe something like this should be in CPC in ROM ? ;)

« Last Edit: 00:11, 07 March 15 by ZbyniuR »
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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #37 on: 00:04, 07 March 15 »
No BBC? Not even an MS-DOS?
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Offline ZbyniuR

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #38 on: 00:13, 07 March 15 »
If you so impatient you can do it yourself. :P
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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #39 on: 02:27, 07 March 15 »
Order of Russian alphabet I took from here:
KOI8-U - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
Similar version was using in Russian clones of ZX Spectrum. I mean till code 64 to 127 like mine, or on capital letters normal Latin and instead small latin letter -> capital Russian with no small at all. :)
But I put there some extra characters from
Belarusian (ў) on code 127 and (i) on fanny looking ( ; ). Small letter only because no space for more.
and Ukrainian (є) on (%) don't mistake with russian (э) or (з) or Euro € sign,
(ґ) you can made by chr$(22)chr$(1) and connect funny (') with russian (г), and (ї) together (;+").
Those letters is not exist in Russian.
The same order is in Unicode. But official ISO standard for Cyrillic is different and using only in Bulgaria. Those «signs» are using in russian as (") quote.
_______________________

Properly Russian keyboard look like this:   
Keyboard layout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JCUKEN is very different than QWERTY. So people with russian as second language quite often prefer something like on second picture, there most letters sound the same like latin on those keys, what is more easy to remember for people from west. On this page second picture is not complete. Russian alphabet have 33 letters, and there is swap X with H. In russian language letter which sound like latin X is no exist, and russian sign X is reading like latin H, so in my opinion this lousy picture is not correct. Actually I seen in Google few different version of this phonetic russian keyboard. :)
http://kaupaitis.lt/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/russian-phonetic-keyboard-layout.png
This one is similar to my, except swap letters on W and V. Probably because some letters from Latin alphabet are reading different way in different language, for example russian B sound like German W, and like English V, that is reason I guess.

On my Font DSK  RUSSIAN.BAS  I made some KEY DEF to put this proper way. After type 'cont' is change into other similar language, not all together like in my version of russian.fnt. :)

Sorry for this long lecture. ;)
« Last Edit: 03:03, 07 March 15 by ZbyniuR »
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #40 on: 10:12, 07 March 15 »
I thought the Greek matrix had been done by someone else already? Ok, i'll make something :)

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #41 on: 10:27, 07 March 15 »

Yeah, it's not that easy :D

AA,α
BΒ,β
CA
DΔ,δ
EΕ,ε
FΦ,φ
GΓ,γ
HΗ,η
IΙ,ι
JJ
KΚ,κ
LΛ,λ
MΜ,μ
NΝ,ν
OΟ,ο
PΠ,π
QQ
RΡ,ρ
SΣ,σ
TΤ,τ
UU
VV
WΩ,ω
XΧ,χ
YΥ,υ
ZΖ,ζ


This is the phonetic equivalents. Now, this leaves us with ψ,ξ, and θ without a direct equivalent. These are pronounsed as "psi", "ksi" and hard "th" (as in Thor")


Reversely, now this is getting tough, because C can be pronounced as both "K" and "S". When writing in greeklish it's usually replaced by Κ,κ, but we already have this elsewhere, so should we duplicate it? Ξ is usually "translated" with a dipthong, "ks" (because X is assigned to x which is phonetically different but it's the same letter), whereas "j" is "translated into a greek dipthong, "τζ" :D


Θ is normally assigned to U because they look somewhat alike, yet U is closer to the greek dipthong "ου".


So you see why these positions have been chosen... When writing English with Greek characters though, it produces silly effects since you can't really replace the Latin characters with dipthongs... Unless you create new characters?


I think this is a bit pointless unfortunately...

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #42 on: 19:22, 07 March 15 »
Then how to you do ü, ç, à, ñ, ï and so on ???


Anyway, thx for the mathematic lesson.


can't wait for Elvish, Vulcan and Klingon versions as well.

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #43 on: 19:43, 07 March 15 »
Thanks Gryzor! Awesome!  :) :) :)

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #44 on: 20:00, 07 March 15 »
Glad you guys liked it :D

Well, if we're talking for the fun of it we could do a 'proper' mapping so that the boot message makes sense. Or we could translate the boot message altogether?

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #45 on: 22:48, 07 March 15 »
@Gryzor - Is Greek is your first language or second?
Do you have PC with greek keyboard?
I hear in Greece CPC was quite popular, so I'm sure someone already made greek version of word processor. Do you have it?
Few months ago when I did this font, I was trying to find in Google pictures of CPC with greek text on screen and it was very hard. I found something what sounds for me like greek but it was writing latin alphabet. And few page with advert of Amstrad in greek language. So not much.

I think if you want made proper greek version od CPC ROM, should be left latin alphabet to listing of Basic look normal and whole list of greek letters including: Ϊ Ϋά έ ή ί ϊ ϋ ό ύ ώ... etc. something like here:
Windows-1253 – Wikipedia
And keys map for example greek small normal, latin small with Shift, and greek capital letters with Ctrl. What you think about it?


@MacDeath - Vulcan and Klingon? - Sounds interesting. How hard it can be? ;)
I can do that. ;)  Can you find me page with whole Klingon alphabet?
 Elvish use runes, I already did it. :)
« Last Edit: 23:06, 07 March 15 by ZbyniuR »
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #46 on: 11:18, 08 March 15 »
Hello mate,

Yes, I'm Greek so my first language is Greek. And yes my PC has a greek keyboard.

The CPC was very popular in Greece, probably the top machine among the 8-bitters (certainly seemed the case with the 6128). Unfortunately I haven't heard of a localised word processor - the only program that I'm aware of that was translated into Greek was Powerplay - The Game of the Gods (Greek download available at http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=3242 ) due to its content. But I'll ask in Greek fora and see if anyone knows anything about a word processor!

Greek characters in CPC programs was achieved by assigning positions to the Greek characters already present in the CPC ROMs and with a few user-defined characters to complete the set. I really don't remember how switching between Greek and Latin characters worked though! What you say makes sense...

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #47 on: 22:15, 08 March 15 »
I have to fix yet some minor details. ;)
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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #48 on: 00:14, 09 March 15 »
@Gryzor - Try GREEK+.BAS it take GREEK+.FNT (codes 160to255) and changes keys map.
You can SAVE"GrKeyMap",b,46230,240 
Try display in CPC some Greek text from PC Windows. Is it OK ? :)

I corrected GREEK.FNT too I mean letters from keys XHJ, now is like should be on Greek keyboard, but still English text look funny with this one fnt.. ;)
 
« Last Edit: 00:27, 09 March 15 by ZbyniuR »
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Just for Fun: C64 roms v2
« Reply #49 on: 09:21, 09 March 15 »
Ah, this is really lovely. Sometimes I have to do a keypress two times for the greek character to appear, which is strange - I would've thought it's down to my Windows/emulation, but only happens with Greek characters??


Love the Greek flag too :)