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avatar_Joseman

Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!

Started by Joseman, 01:31, 10 November 11

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Gryzor

Ooh, it'll be great! Can't wait to see some results!!!

And, I agree - mode 1 is the way to go for this one. If an original title uses so few colours then why bother using more - and dropping the resolution?

obo

Quote from: Executioner on 00:02, 15 November 11
The big problem I would have with doing this conversion is converting the sound from the original Pac-man to the AY, the chip is completely different.
At first glance it's quite different, especially since the original uses custom waveforms.  Though ultimately it's just 3 voices, 16 volume levels per voice, and frequency selection for each.  An 8K look-up table to map between native and AY note numbers is enough to sound close, for very little effort.


It's good to see the CPC version progressing well already, especially using the original graphics (with colour changes).  It does add a certain extra magic that's missing from the SAM version.

MacDeath

Why not simply get an englishman to do a speccy port from the Arcade port on speccy ?

This will only take 3 weeks... perhaps less if you don't put some copyprotection...

:D

obo

Quote from: MacDeath on 17:06, 10 November 11
easy, because as far as I'm looking at this video I see no colours.

Good point there are no clashes too... :P
There's a test version with colour clash too, just to see what it'd look like:
Pac-Man for Sinclair Spectrum (colour)


Quote5 sprites only...
Plus the bonuses... which may be a bit more problematic when they stack up (perhaps some multiplexing ?).
The ghosts on the attract sequence, the line of fruit at the bottom, and the lives indicators are all drawn as regular background tiles.  The arcade hardware supports 8 sprites, but only 6 are used (Pac-Man, 4 ghosts, and the fruit in the centre of the maze).  The sprites aren't always used for the same objects either, so ghosts are drawn over Pac-Man when he's being chased, and he's drawn over them when they can be eaten.


I don't know enough about the CPC hardware to know how best to approach implementing it.  The sprite drawing is definitely the most time-consuming task in the SAM version, and when all 6 sprites are visible it's a struggle to finish everything (plus the ROM's own processing) within the time for a single frame.  Any help the CPC hardware can give to draw the sprites will help ensure it runs at full speed.


TotO

Thank you for sharing this nice video and the technicals informations. :)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

TFM

Actually the above Color clash version is totally hypnotic and fascinating, surreal and I just can't get my eyes off the Red one.    ... Skyline...(it was blue light there though).
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

MacDeath

Well to be fair, in this special case the colour clashes almost look like some lighting effect in dark corridors... Fanthoms emiting a ghostly light... sort of.

TFM

So true. And nobody needs acid any longer  :laugh:
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Executioner

Quote from: TotO on 08:44, 15 November 11
Like you can ear on the Spectrum version, there is no problem for sound.

Yes, but are the sounds on the Spectrum version the same as the arcade? The frequencies would also have to be adjusted to suit the CPC.

QuoteThen, CPC Old or CPC Plus port have to be in Mode 1. Using Mode 0 will be no sens.

The Plus version would definitely be MODE 1, but the normal CPC version may be better in MODE 0 since there are many more than 4 colours on the screen at any time. Perhaps an option like that old ball/tank puzzle game from years back.

Quote
Finally, don't spend time for it, because I know that a people is already in contact with the autor for a CPC version.
(he ask me to use GFx, since I realeased mock-ups)

Sorry if it was a secret, but it's better to know... Than 10 guys doing the same work separately. :D

If he needs any help with the Plus sprites, I have a routine I've developed to do 4 colour Plus compiled sprites which will easily do all 6 sprites in a frame.

TFM

If you like to convert Mode 0 graphics to CPC Plus sprites, then have a look at this:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/GMSK
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

TotO

#60
Quote from: Executioner on 23:51, 16 November 11Yes, but are the sounds on the Spectrum version the same as the arcade? The frequencies would also have to be adjusted to suit the CPC.
It sound near and better than common arcade ports.
And yes, the frequency have to be adusted. (a look-up table was used for the sound, said the autor)

Quote from: Executioner on 23:51, 16 November 11The Plus version would definitely be MODE 1, but the normal CPC version may be better in MODE 0 since there are many more than 4 colours on the screen at any time. Perhaps an option like that old ball/tank puzzle game from years back.
No doubt about the CPC+ version.
About CPC version, there are no "many more colors on the screen", but few useless colors on the screen.

When you port a game, you don't have to cut the resolution for matching colors but thinking about gameplay elements for make a choice, because in both case you done a compromise.
The gameplay of Pac-Man is not based on colors (like columns, tetris, Puzzle Bubble...) but on speed, skill and timing.
So you need accuracy on the maze design and player moves.

Watching color use (w/o background), you can see:
- Score: 2 colors
- Maze & gums: 2 colors
- Player & live: 1 color
- Fruits: 7 colors (up to 5 each)
- Ghosts: 6 colors (3 each)

- Analysing the fruits place in the gameplay, you can see that it's only a level indicator... Displayed as a bonus too.
So this element is not important for the gamer and not justify to cut the resolution.
- Analysing ghosts place in the gameplay, only the red one has de different moving comportement, so you have to identify it. Others may have the same color... (or not).
Afraids ghosts have the same comportement, so you have to identify them by using the same color. (like the arcade do).

In conclusion, it's better to use Mode 1 for a Pac-Man conversion.

Quote from: Executioner on 23:51, 16 November 11If he needs any help with the Plus sprites, I have a routine I've developed to do 4 colour Plus compiled sprites which will easily do all 6 sprites in a frame.
I think the CPC programmer have seen your post, like he seen my screens. ;)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

I also think MODE 1 would be the better choice over MODE 0.....   but I can change my mind, if Executioner makes that MODE 2 video recording in WinApe.  :)

Morn

Quote from: TotO on 09:46, 17 November 11
- Analysing ghosts place in the gameplay, only the red one has de different moving comportement, so you have to identify it. Others may have the same color... (or not).

According to http://home.comcast.net/~jpittman2/pacman/pacmandossier.html#Chapter_4, all four ghosts have distinctly different movement patterns.

TotO

#63
I have read "The Basics" part of this dossier, and it said that only the red ghost is different. :D
So, I don't read more about ghosts. Thank you to notice that!
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

obo

Quote from: TotO on 11:45, 17 November 11
I have read "The Basics" part of this dossier, and it said that only the red ghost is different. :D
So, I don't read more about ghosts. Thank you to notice that!
The red one is probably the most important, as it's the only one to always target Pac-Man directly (unless in scatter mode).  So in the mono Spectrum version I gave it a mouth to make it stand out.


A refined version of the Pac-Man dossier gives some nice detail for the individual ghost behaviour: http://gameinternals.com/post/2072558330/understanding-pac-man-ghost-behavior

tastefulmrship

Haha! Whatever happened to the good-olde ghost movement code;

IF ghostx<manx THEN ghostx=ghostx-1
IF ghostx>manx THEN ghostx=ghostx+1
IF ghosty<many THEN ghosty=ghosty-1
IF ghosty>many THEN ghosty=ghosty+1


Made any Pac-Man clone seriously impossible... ah, those were the days! ^_^
(Like the CWTA type-in in 1985 that I recently typed-in for the fun of it!)

CanonMan

Quote from: tastefulmrship on 12:25, 17 November 11
Haha! Whatever happened to the good-olde ghost movement code;

IF ghostx<manx THEN ghostx=ghostx-1
IF ghostx>manx THEN ghostx=ghostx+1
IF ghosty<many THEN ghosty=ghosty-1
IF ghosty>many THEN ghosty=ghosty+1


Made any Pac-Man clone seriously impossible... ah, those were the days! ^_^
(Like the CWTA type-in in 1985 that I recently typed-in for the fun of it!)

Wouldn't that make the ghosts move away from the man?  :laugh:

Morn

Quote from: TotO on 11:45, 17 November 11
I have read "The Basics" part of this dossier, and it said that only the red ghost is different. :D

It is different in the sense that is has the most aggressive movement pattern (directly targeting Pac-Man) and gains speed as you gobble up the last few pellet thingies on a level.

MacDeath

#68
The red one is the most dangerous one...

The 3 others have slightly different "AI" patterns though.


I also vote for Mode1 as the square pxiels would make the movements smoother in horizontal trajectories.


Smoothness and speed are the keys to a good PacMan.

Gryzor

Quote from: CanonMan on 14:02, 17 November 11

Wouldn't that make the ghosts move away from the man?  :laugh:

And I thought I just needed more coffee... :D

Executioner

Quote from: mr_lou on 09:49, 17 November 11
I also think MODE 1 would be the better choice over MODE 0.....   but I can change my mind, if Executioner makes that MODE 2 video recording in WinApe.  :)

You do realise that A18 does this already? (Just tick Full Size Video when you select the file). Your best bet is to record an SNR of the whole game, then record compressed video during playback of the SNR with no frame skipping (ie. Display every 1 frame), although a very fast HDD/SSD may be sufficient for recording real-time.

TFM

#71
Well, in Version A18 Mode 2 is recorded a bit better, but still not perfect. But I'm sure you'll get it right. :-)
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

MacDeath

Ok, I resurrect this topic because... the final product has finally been released...



TotO

"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

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