- Top Stats

Top Posters Top Topic Starters Top Topics
Gryzor 1294
Bryce 756
TFM 423
MacDeath 379
Carnivius 273
Gryzor 144
Neil79 116
Swainy 66
ZEUSDAZ 49
mr_lou 28
Robocop Prime - 32026 Views gryzor 13:44, 08 February 14
Proof that the... - 20620 Views tastefulmr... 17:24, 13 February 16
Pacman emulato... - 16221 Views Joseman 02:31, 10 November 11
Cosmic Prison ... - 15118 Views Carnivac 22:33, 19 June 14
Roland of Sherwood - 14442 Views Carnivac 16:31, 28 July 15


Author Topic: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!  (Read 16222 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gryzor

  • Administrator
  • 6128 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 14.837
  • Country: gr
  • CPC-Wiki maintainer
    • CPCWiki
  • Liked: 2856
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #50 on: 13:45, 15 November 11 »
Ooh, it'll be great! Can't wait to see some results!!!

And, I agree - mode 1 is the way to go for this one. If an original title uses so few colours then why bother using more - and dropping the resolution?

Offline obo

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • Homepage
  • Liked: 2
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #51 on: 22:47, 15 November 11 »
The big problem I would have with doing this conversion is converting the sound from the original Pac-man to the AY, the chip is completely different.
At first glance it's quite different, especially since the original uses custom waveforms.  Though ultimately it's just 3 voices, 16 volume levels per voice, and frequency selection for each.  An 8K look-up table to map between native and AY note numbers is enough to sound close, for very little effort.


It's good to see the CPC version progressing well already, especially using the original graphics (with colour changes).  It does add a certain extra magic that's missing from the SAM version.

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.038
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1108
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #52 on: 23:04, 15 November 11 »
Why not simply get an englishman to do a speccy port from the Arcade port on speccy ?

This will only take 3 weeks... perhaps less if you don't put some copyprotection...

 :D

Offline obo

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • Homepage
  • Liked: 2
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #53 on: 23:05, 15 November 11 »
easy, because as far as I'm looking at this video I see no colours.

Good point there are no clashes too... :P
There's a test version with colour clash too, just to see what it'd look like: Pac-Man for Sinclair Spectrum (colour)


Quote
5 sprites only...
Plus the bonuses... which may be a bit more problematic when they stack up (perhaps some multiplexing ?).
The ghosts on the attract sequence, the line of fruit at the bottom, and the lives indicators are all drawn as regular background tiles.  The arcade hardware supports 8 sprites, but only 6 are used (Pac-Man, 4 ghosts, and the fruit in the centre of the maze).  The sprites aren't always used for the same objects either, so ghosts are drawn over Pac-Man when he's being chased, and he's drawn over them when they can be eaten.


I don't know enough about the CPC hardware to know how best to approach implementing it.  The sprite drawing is definitely the most time-consuming task in the SAM version, and when all 6 sprites are visible it's a struggle to finish everything (plus the ROM's own processing) within the time for a single frame.  Any help the CPC hardware can give to draw the sprites will help ensure it runs at full speed.


Online TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.266
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
  • Liked: 2433
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #54 on: 23:12, 15 November 11 »
Thank you for sharing this nice video and the technicals informations. :)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline TFM

  • Visit the mysteries of the CPC at www.futureos.de
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 9.899
  • Country: aq
  • Space Chicken for FutureOS is free!
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • FutureOS - The revolution on CPC!
  • Liked: 1977
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #55 on: 04:54, 16 November 11 »
Actually the above Color clash version is totally hypnotic and fascinating, surreal and I just can't get my eyes off the Red one.    ... Skyline...(it was blue light there though).
 
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.038
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1108
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #56 on: 12:32, 16 November 11 »
Well to be fair, in this special case the colour clashes almost look like some lighting effect in dark corridors... Fanthoms emiting a ghostly light... sort of.

Offline TFM

  • Visit the mysteries of the CPC at www.futureos.de
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 9.899
  • Country: aq
  • Space Chicken for FutureOS is free!
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • FutureOS - The revolution on CPC!
  • Liked: 1977
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #57 on: 20:44, 16 November 11 »
So true. And nobody needs acid any longer  :laugh:
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Offline Executioner

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 783
  • Country: au
  • WinAPE Developer
    • WinAPE
  • Liked: 390
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #58 on: 00:51, 17 November 11 »
Like you can ear on the Spectrum version, there is no problem for sound.

Yes, but are the sounds on the Spectrum version the same as the arcade? The frequencies would also have to be adjusted to suit the CPC.

Quote
Then, CPC Old or CPC Plus port have to be in Mode 1. Using Mode 0 will be no sens.

The Plus version would definitely be MODE 1, but the normal CPC version may be better in MODE 0 since there are many more than 4 colours on the screen at any time. Perhaps an option like that old ball/tank puzzle game from years back.

Quote
Finally, don't spend time for it, because I know that a people is already in contact with the autor for a CPC version.
(he ask me to use GFx, since I realeased mock-ups)

Sorry if it was a secret, but it's better to know... Than 10 guys doing the same work separately. :D

If he needs any help with the Plus sprites, I have a routine I've developed to do 4 colour Plus compiled sprites which will easily do all 6 sprites in a frame.

Offline TFM

  • Visit the mysteries of the CPC at www.futureos.de
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 9.899
  • Country: aq
  • Space Chicken for FutureOS is free!
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • FutureOS - The revolution on CPC!
  • Liked: 1977
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #59 on: 03:14, 17 November 11 »
If you like to convert Mode 0 graphics to CPC Plus sprites, then have a look at this:
 
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/GMSK
 
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Online TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.266
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
  • Liked: 2433
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #60 on: 10:46, 17 November 11 »
Yes, but are the sounds on the Spectrum version the same as the arcade? The frequencies would also have to be adjusted to suit the CPC.
It sound near and better than common arcade ports.
And yes, the frequency have to be adusted. (a look-up table was used for the sound, said the autor)

The Plus version would definitely be MODE 1, but the normal CPC version may be better in MODE 0 since there are many more than 4 colours on the screen at any time. Perhaps an option like that old ball/tank puzzle game from years back.
No doubt about the CPC+ version.
About CPC version, there are no "many more colors on the screen", but few useless colors on the screen.

When you port a game, you don't have to cut the resolution for matching colors but thinking about gameplay elements for make a choice, because in both case you done a compromise.
The gameplay of Pac-Man is not based on colors (like columns, tetris, Puzzle Bubble...) but on speed, skill and timing.
So you need accuracy on the maze design and player moves.

Watching color use (w/o background), you can see:
- Score: 2 colors
- Maze & gums: 2 colors
- Player & live: 1 color
- Fruits: 7 colors (up to 5 each)
- Ghosts: 6 colors (3 each)

- Analysing the fruits place in the gameplay, you can see that it's only a level indicator... Displayed as a bonus too.
So this element is not important for the gamer and not justify to cut the resolution.
- Analysing ghosts place in the gameplay, only the red one has de different moving comportement, so you have to identify it. Others may have the same color... (or not).
Afraids ghosts have the same comportement, so you have to identify them by using the same color. (like the arcade do).

In conclusion, it's better to use Mode 1 for a Pac-Man conversion.

If he needs any help with the Plus sprites, I have a routine I've developed to do 4 colour Plus compiled sprites which will easily do all 6 sprites in a frame.
I think the CPC programmer have seen your post, like he seen my screens. ;)
« Last Edit: 13:14, 17 November 11 by TotO »
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline mr_lou

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.833
  • Country: dk
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • 8-bit Memoirs - a Blu-ray diskmag-like eBook about the 8-bit era
  • Liked: 1043
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #61 on: 10:49, 17 November 11 »
I also think MODE 1 would be the better choice over MODE 0.....   but I can change my mind, if Executioner makes that MODE 2 video recording in WinApe.  :)

Offline Morn

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 94
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #62 on: 12:36, 17 November 11 »
- Analysing ghosts place in the gameplay, only the red one has de different moving comportement, so you have to identify it. Others may have the same color... (or not).

According to http://home.comcast.net/~jpittman2/pacman/pacmandossier.html#Chapter_4, all four ghosts have distinctly different movement patterns.
Primary computers: CPC 6128 (’87–’90)→Amiga 2000 (’90–’95)→Windows/Linux/FreeBSD PC (’95–’06)→MacBook (’06–'12)→Linux/Windows PC and MacBook ('12-)

Online TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.266
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
  • Liked: 2433
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #63 on: 12:45, 17 November 11 »
I have read "The Basics" part of this dossier, and it said that only the red ghost is different. :D
So, I don't read more about ghosts. Thank you to notice that!
« Last Edit: 12:50, 17 November 11 by TotO »
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline obo

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • Homepage
  • Liked: 2
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #64 on: 13:02, 17 November 11 »
I have read "The Basics" part of this dossier, and it said that only the red ghost is different. :D
So, I don't read more about ghosts. Thank you to notice that!
The red one is probably the most important, as it's the only one to always target Pac-Man directly (unless in scatter mode).  So in the mono Spectrum version I gave it a mouth to make it stand out.


A refined version of the Pac-Man dossier gives some nice detail for the individual ghost behaviour: http://gameinternals.com/post/2072558330/understanding-pac-man-ghost-behavior

Offline SuTeKH/Epyteor

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 1.314
  • Country: 00
  • Semi-professional acceptance testing engineer!
    • Epyteor titles on CPC-Power
  • Liked: 1232
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #65 on: 13:25, 17 November 11 »
Haha! Whatever happened to the good-olde ghost movement code;
Code: [Select]

IF ghostx<manx THEN ghostx=ghostx-1
IF ghostx>manx THEN ghostx=ghostx+1
IF ghosty<many THEN ghosty=ghosty-1
IF ghosty>many THEN ghosty=ghosty+1

Made any Pac-Man clone seriously impossible... ah, those were the days! ^_^
(Like the CWTA type-in in 1985 that I recently typed-in for the fun of it!)
"I think you should worry less about who you might offend and care more about who you might inspire.”
— Mike Baxter

Offline CanonMan

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Liked: 18
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #66 on: 15:02, 17 November 11 »
Haha! Whatever happened to the good-olde ghost movement code;
Code: [Select]

IF ghostx<manx THEN ghostx=ghostx-1
IF ghostx>manx THEN ghostx=ghostx+1
IF ghosty<many THEN ghosty=ghosty-1
IF ghosty>many THEN ghosty=ghosty+1

Made any Pac-Man clone seriously impossible... ah, those were the days! ^_^
(Like the CWTA type-in in 1985 that I recently typed-in for the fun of it!)

Wouldn't that make the ghosts move away from the man?  :laugh:

Offline Morn

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 94
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #67 on: 15:45, 17 November 11 »
I have read "The Basics" part of this dossier, and it said that only the red ghost is different. :D

It is different in the sense that is has the most aggressive movement pattern (directly targeting Pac-Man) and gains speed as you gobble up the last few pellet thingies on a level.
Primary computers: CPC 6128 (’87–’90)→Amiga 2000 (’90–’95)→Windows/Linux/FreeBSD PC (’95–’06)→MacBook (’06–'12)→Linux/Windows PC and MacBook ('12-)

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.038
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1108
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #68 on: 16:32, 17 November 11 »
The red one is the most dangerous one...

The 3 others have slightly different "AI" patterns though.


I also vote for Mode1 as the square pxiels would make the movements smoother in horizontal trajectories.


Smoothness and speed are the keys to a good PacMan.
« Last Edit: 16:35, 17 November 11 by MacDeath »

Offline Gryzor

  • Administrator
  • 6128 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 14.837
  • Country: gr
  • CPC-Wiki maintainer
    • CPCWiki
  • Liked: 2856
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #69 on: 16:46, 17 November 11 »

Wouldn't that make the ghosts move away from the man?  :laugh:

And I thought I just needed more coffee... :D

Offline Executioner

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 783
  • Country: au
  • WinAPE Developer
    • WinAPE
  • Liked: 390
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #70 on: 01:40, 18 November 11 »
I also think MODE 1 would be the better choice over MODE 0.....   but I can change my mind, if Executioner makes that MODE 2 video recording in WinApe.  :)

You do realise that A18 does this already? (Just tick Full Size Video when you select the file). Your best bet is to record an SNR of the whole game, then record compressed video during playback of the SNR with no frame skipping (ie. Display every 1 frame), although a very fast HDD/SSD may be sufficient for recording real-time.

Offline TFM

  • Visit the mysteries of the CPC at www.futureos.de
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 9.899
  • Country: aq
  • Space Chicken for FutureOS is free!
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • FutureOS - The revolution on CPC!
  • Liked: 1977
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #71 on: 04:30, 18 November 11 »
Well, in Version A18 Mode 2 is recorded a bit better, but still not perfect. But I'm sure you'll get it right. :-)
 
« Last Edit: 20:53, 02 April 12 by TFM/FS »
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.038
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1108
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #72 on: 20:23, 02 April 12 »
Ok, I resurrect this topic because... the final product has finally been released...



Online TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.266
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
  • Liked: 2433
Re: Pacman emulator for spectrum!!!!
« Reply #73 on: 20:27, 02 April 12 »
Yes. Thank you! :)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)