Author Topic: Proof that the Commodre 64 palette is far superior to the Amstrad CPC.  (Read 9404 times)

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Offline Oliver Lindau

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@andycadley
You can be sure that there was a wide, wide range of colour settings out there. One rather controversial project that is going on in the C64 world is is the community colours project by P1x3l.net. Controversial because of its approach creating a palette by collecting subjective user palettes and building an avarage value. Personally I am also mixed about the current status there because the colours are even more saturated than my approach (guess that people with unique settings are more motivated in partitipating than those who don't touch anything). I believe more in my own experiences and talks with people that were active in the 80ies and 90ies, which were mostly in the games industry and hardware nerds. And the usual conclusion is that there is no universal palette that does justice to all c64 setups and its graphics artists.



@ukmarkh
yes. The TV out is a league of its own including extreme black bleed and a desaturation effect by using big white areas. Fun fact is that I used two different screens in the early 90ies (no joke) one low saturated TV and the more saturated monitor. Still do using PEPTO instead of a telly nowadays.
« Last Edit: 00:40, 19 February 16 by Oliver Lindau »

Offline ||C|-|E||

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I am quite impressed with this image.



Could anyone enlighten me about how it was done? If there was a semi-automatic way to do this some games in Mode 1, like our adventure, could have truly amazing graphics in the future.

Offline 1024MAK

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This thread appears to be going in circles now...


The debate about what the correct colours for the C64 are, is about much use as debating how pink or not, "white" people's skin should be on a 1980's colour TVs (what your preferred settings were for contrast, brightness and colour on the TV controls). I remember one nan liked the skin to be pinkish, while my Mum and Dad, and my other nan preferred a whiter colour.

So to be clear, IMHO any domestic composite TV system (including S-Video) does not have calibrated colours, saturation levels, or properly configured grey scales.

And also, for the record, analogue RGB also is not a fully calibrated system.

Mark
Looking forward to summer in Somerset :-)

Offline Oliver Lindau

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@||C|-|E||
Not sure what tools Rexbeng uses. In Grafx2 there is a effect called 'Sieve' that can draw with dithered patterns. Choose 'FX' and 'Sieve' - right click on Sieve and open the dither-design dialog. All tools work with the chosen foreground and background colour.

@1024MAK
Of course RGB is no fully calibrated standard. Still 16bit systems were definitely more practical for adjusting video systems than a more or less random 16 colour palette. But what you are saying is exactly what I mean. Those were analogue times. Everyone did what he thought was right with their screen. And from that point pictures also look different on each screen and leads to many individual palettes...
« Last Edit: 01:50, 19 February 16 by Oliver Lindau »

Offline Fessor

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A true NTSC-System...
Even in PAL-Region it has Never The Same Color...

Offline invent

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I am quite impressed with this image.

(Attachment Link)

Could anyone enlighten me about how it was done? If there was a semi-automatic way to do this some games in Mode 1, like our adventure, could have truly amazing graphics in the future.


Hi ||C|-|E||, zooming into the image gives some clues, custom dithering and particular colours next to each other. While I can't think of an automatic way, if I was going to recreate this effect I would create custom patterns in Photoshop for example and fill in solid areas with the pattern (colour shade). Would need to create a set of patterns ranging in tone or spectrum of colours.  Look like an interesting challenge.  Very interesting technique which works best using primary colours for greatest range in colour spectrum if that's your intention (Red, Green , Blue and Black)
« Last Edit: 14:20, 19 February 16 by invent »
Enjoying/Creating Retro Games

Offline 1024MAK

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A true NTSC-System...
Even in PAL-Region it has Never The Same Color...
Never Twice Same Color...
Looking forward to summer in Somerset :-)

Offline 1024MAK

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Also, keep in mind that the 625 line system can use either PAL or NTSC colour encoding.
And the U.S. 525 line system can also use either PAL or NTSC colour encoding.
See Broadcast television systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mark
Looking forward to summer in Somerset :-)

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Hi ||C|-|E||, zooming into the image gives some clues, custom dithering and particular colours next to each other. While I can't think of an automatic way, if I was going to recreate this effect I would create custom patterns in Photoshop for example and fill in solid areas with the pattern (colour shade). Would need to create a set of patterns ranging in tone or spectrum of colours.  Look like an interesting challenge.  Very interesting technique which works best using primary colours for greatest range in colour spectrum if that's your intention (Red, Green , Blue and Black)


I was thinking a little bit about that and I think that it should be possible to implement an automatic or semi-automatic conversion with a little bit of effort. It would be necessary to create a database with all the virtual colors you can get using dithering and then create a palette from it. Later, you would use that palette to draw your images using tiles of 2x2 pixels. Finally, the application would convert those patches to the dithered version and some manual adjustment would be required to remove the blocky aspect. The program could actually be more sophisticate and try to remove the blockiness by itself. In this case, you would draw the image in a normal way using the custom palette, then it would be converted to a blocky image made of tiles of 2x2 pixels, this image would be dithered automatically and, finally, we could refine it trying something like a Monte Carlo approach until we find the best correlation with the original thing you drew. Huum... I am probably saying just a bunch of stupid things  :picard:

Offline ZbyniuR

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Do you remember OverPixel ?  What is possible in 4 colors only.
JavaCPC Paint Overpixel effect (MODE 1, 4 colours)
Compress makes more colors but in reality there are only 4 CMYK colors mixed like pixels in printer.
CPC - means  Cute Perfect Computer :)