Author Topic: Proof that the Commodre 64 palette is far superior to the Amstrad CPC.  (Read 11025 times)

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Offline MacDeath

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But you can't do that on speccy or C64 because it needs to have more than 2 colours around themselves in small pixels...
 :D

dithering is really important.


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Offline invent

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Further experimenting with the 4 colour palette.
The 8 colour one below the original is only for reference (trying to use the full range of colour from the Amstrad palette, then reducing it down)



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Offline Oliver Lindau

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@MacDeath
Except using underlay sprite graphics modes on the C64... those are based on HiRes bitmap.
... but those are not appropiate for games. They need way too much ram and rastertime for this.

« Last Edit: 08:34, 20 February 16 by Oliver Lindau »

Offline arnoldemu

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I'm enjoying reading this thread :)

In the same way that some c64 pictures use sprites and heavy cpu use for display, we can also do the same on CPC :)

Sylvestre does a good job of investigating CPC possibilites:

Amstrad CPC - Les Sucres en Morceaux

nice pictures here:
Les Sucres en Morceaux - Demos en Sucre sur Amstrad CPC

Mode 5 can be used on cpc and that uses lots of cpu time. (it's mode 1, but with palette changes many times per line)

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Offline Oliver Lindau

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Mode 5 can be used on cpc and that uses lots of cpu time. (it's mode 1, but with palette changes many times per line)
That sounds similar to C64 NUFLI. Atari 8Bit has something like that too called Graph2Font, though normally the gfx artists use low resolution for that mode.

Offline MacDeath

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Quote
Except using underlay sprite graphics modes on the C64... those are based on HiRes bitmap.
... but those are not appropiate for games. They need way too much ram and rastertime for this.
yes, you can "patch" the graphics with the hardsprites to add extra colours* where attributes wouldn't allow it.

But while CPC has far less colours on screen in Mode1, you cannnot apply Hardsprites on the whole screen I guess... especially in 384x256... (but Sprites can add graphic surface on the border, can't they ?)
otherwise, c64 sprites can be multiplexed so you can apply them on the whole screen height... this would get the whole pictures (+ the code for it) being far more heavy than the common 320x200+attributes.


anyway we are talking about pure graphic screens, not games...


The "mammouth" picture uses a lot of er... interuptions ? in order to manage some sort of colour change on the same line.
very CPU intense and need clever timing but can quite work for pure graphics.
Easier on PLUS and can be Sprite patched as well..

But still usable on simple CPC too actually.



yes, Supersly is one of Amstrad's graphical scientist and expermimental wizard.



* I meant extra brown and grey, of course...  :P


Anyway this thread needs more pictures...
Pic or it doesn't exist...








oops lol this is CGA graphics...  ;D

Seriously CGA graphics when done well could be quite nice.
Basically a shame CPC had more Spectrum graphics than real CGA graphics... and in 320x200x4... CPC is quite a superior CGA.
 ::)

slight mockup with some added rasters...
« Last Edit: 02:13, 21 February 16 by MacDeath »

Offline Oliver Lindau

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@MacDeath
NUFLI uses multiplexed x-stretched hardware sprites to cover the whole screen. Almost - because is uses FLI and on C64 the first 24 pixels cause something called FLI-bug, which means that colours cannot freely defined here and two sprites are used to cover this area. By definition this means that the last 8 pixels each line are bitmap-only. To make things more complicated - colours are split for the bitmap each regular line and for the sprites each irregular line.
Up and low border sprites are still possible in theory but haven't been seen in real life yet.

Border sprites is a similar concept, but esp side borders are tricky codewise. It is possible to get a similar effect like overscan pictures on the CPC, but actually it is playing with reduction. The demo Deus Ex Machina starts with a picture that is an interlaced fullscreen ifli covering the whole border, here it was the flicker that compensates stretched sprites. In others details are reduced to the 8-sprite-limitation per line. Some pictures implement rasterbar-effects to fill the gaps.

Offline SuTeKH/Epyteor

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... in a .dsk!



Offline arnoldemu

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It is true that for both machines the "default modes" are expanded with various techniques (rasters, sprites, overscan, interlace) to achieve much better images.

I think what is sad is there are much less people making graphics on CPC compared to C64.
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Offline arnoldemu

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Border sprites is a similar concept, but esp side borders are tricky codewise. It is possible to get a similar effect like overscan pictures on the CPC, but actually it is playing with reduction. The demo Deus Ex Machina starts with a picture that is an interlaced fullscreen ifli covering the whole border, here it was the flicker that compensates stretched sprites. In others details are reduced to the 8-sprite-limitation per line. Some pictures implement rasterbar-effects to fill the gaps.
@Oliver Lindau:

Is it true that on c64 to "open the borders" you must do something every line (just like on Atari ST with it's 50/60hz switch to open borders)?

I think in this respect the cpc is easier, because overscan be done with no cpu time, but at the expense of 22KB of RAM used for the display.


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