Author Topic: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?  (Read 3378 times)

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Offline ukmarkh

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Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« on: 00:55, 15 February 16 »
I would really like to do this for my CPC, I have quite a few spare, so not scared in the slightest.


Is it possible? How big a deal is it? Do games actually run any faster i.e. Chase HQ, Outrun, Altered Beast?


If anyone has done this, would it be possible to produce a guide, show the rest of us?


Thanks in advance

Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #1 on: 02:04, 15 February 16 »
You have the basics explained in the Wiki :)

6 MHz CPC - CPCWiki

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #2 on: 04:06, 15 February 16 »
I did make a 6 MHz CPC a long time ago, it's super easy and the results are awesome. Even converted half a dozen of games for it. Now they are super smooth! It's just awesome!  :)
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Offline ZbyniuR

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #3 on: 19:13, 15 February 16 »
What kind monitor you have, and how FDD work with such speed?
TREK is better than WARS.

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #4 on: 19:39, 15 February 16 »
Well, I used the regular CTM644, but I did change some CRTC register values. Basically you increase the 'Horizontal characters in total' by 50%. Then you get 50 Hz again. Now, you can blow up the screen and use 32 KB V-RAM. Mode 0 can be used (f.e.) with the usual 16 colors but with 50% higher resolution. I used 32 * 32 MODE 0 f.e. GFX can be so beautiful in such a MODE 0, because the pixel are getting close to be square instead of long bricks, ehm, you know what i mean... they are pushed together in X, so look way better.


The floppy works with with that speed, which is actually 50% higher. I converted games to a Data format which runs 50% more quick. On 3" disc the sectors are squeezed too, because the FDC is 50% faster. So you can store about 300 KB on one disc side using 15 sectors of 512 bytes, or even better 8 sectors of 1024 bytes, which gives a format of 320 KB (318 KB free). The 3" discs don't have a problem and work well, I still have one or two of them and they retain data since over 15 years. However I can't tell much about 3.5" discs and drives, simply because I didn't make a long array of tests. I created an format of 1.3 MB capacity and one of 1.2 MB, both worked.

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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #5 on: 23:05, 15 February 16 »
You have the basics explained in the Wiki :)

6 MHz CPC - CPCWiki


It's more of a "Look what you can do" on that page, doesn't show in detail, needs an in depth guide on 'how to do it'.
« Last Edit: 23:08, 15 February 16 by ukmarkh »

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #6 on: 00:34, 16 February 16 »
The Wiki article tells all details needed, just exchange the crystal or add a 2nd one.  :)
« Last Edit: 18:52, 16 February 16 by TFM »
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Offline PulkoMandy

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #7 on: 08:17, 16 February 16 »
Yes it's really that simple:
1) Remove 16 MHz crystal from motherboard
2) Insert 24MHz crystal
3) Profit!!!


It is possible to add a switch to select between the two crystals, you need a switch with two lanes and two positions (DSDT). Try to keep the wires short in that case.


Some warnings:
- You need to adjust CRTC values manually. There is no adjusted system ROM available (as far as I know?)
- Your floppy disks will be completely unreadable by any other machine. If you could reach 8MHz, they would be HD disks, but the electronics in the CPC won't work at such high speed. This creates a challenge in transferring data. Maybe tape can be used with the correct "speed write" settings?

Offline Munchausen

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #8 on: 08:41, 16 February 16 »
It is possible to add a switch to select between the two crystals, you need a switch with two lanes and two positions (DSDT).

Typo? DPDT I think

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #9 on: 13:24, 16 February 16 »
The Wiki article tells all details needed, but not how to solder or how to use a screwdriver.  :picard:


« Last Edit: 14:30, 16 February 16 by ukmarkh »

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #10 on: 13:25, 16 February 16 »
Yes it's really that simple:
1) Remove 16 MHz crystal from motherboard
2) Insert 24MHz crystal
3) Profit!!!


It is possible to add a switch to select between the two crystals, you need a switch with two lanes and two positions (DSDT). Try to keep the wires short in that case.


Some warnings:
- You need to adjust CRTC values manually. There is no adjusted system ROM available (as far as I know?)
- Your floppy disks will be completely unreadable by any other machine. If you could reach 8MHz, they would be HD disks, but the electronics in the CPC won't work at such high speed. This creates a challenge in transferring data. Maybe tape can be used with the correct "speed write" settings?


Thank you for this extra information. A gentleman beyond reproach!

Offline gerald

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #11 on: 13:42, 16 February 16 »
The Wiki article tells all details needed, but not how to solder or how to use a screwdriver.  :picard:
Quote
  • Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase of speed by 50% (verified with at least one CPC6128 produced 1987).
  • In case of the older DRAM type the speed improvement is only 16.7%.This has been tested with this simple program :
Who made these statements ?
DRAM speed is dictated by the GA, so the 16/24MHz.
Either the DRAM support beeing accessed at such speed, or it does not support it and return garbage.
The CPC cannot adapt its memory access speed to the speed grade of the DRAM.

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #12 on: 18:49, 16 February 16 »
Yes it's really that simple:
1) Remove 16 MHz crystal from motherboard
2) Insert 24MHz crystal
3) Profit!!!

Well, I just added the 2nd crystal on the first one, so I can switch between them. (And a switch of course). Works nice :)

EDIT: You told all that, I should read more careful before posting!  ;D  But hey, I just worked 2 hours on the microscope, see too much dancing bubbles instead of letters now.  :picard:


The big advantage of having a "switch" solution is that you can copy files in the RAM disc (need constant power supply of battery, f.e. X-MEM with own PSU or Inicron RAM-expansion), then you can switch the CPC off, activate 6 MHz, then switch the CPC on, then copy your files to the disc.
And - schwupps - you have software on disc running with 6 MHz! The X-MEM also allows to use a new lower ROM, so you can adjust the CRTC values to your desire.
However, I did not yet test the X-MEM with the 6 MHz CPC. What I did is to test lots of older RAM and ROM expansions back in the day. So, some are 6 MHz compatible, some are not quick enough. You have to check this our. Maybe we can compile a list of compatible hardware?  :)


Who made these statements ?

Not me, my 6 MHz CPC does _everything_ 50% more quick. Even the sound. Speedup in games was 50% too. Of course if you change the CRTC values and a program waits to the Frame-Fly-Back then it will have impact. I guess you see where I'm driving at? Where they "influenced" their speed test?  ;) :)
« Last Edit: 19:01, 16 February 16 by TFM »
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Offline gerald

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #13 on: 19:17, 16 February 16 »
Not me, my 6 MHz CPC does _everything_ 50% more quick. Even the sound. Speedup in games was 50% too. Of course if you change the CRTC values and a program waits to the Frame-Fly-Back then it will have impact. I guess you see where I'm driving at? Where they "influenced" their speed test?  ;) :)

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #14 on: 19:22, 16 February 16 »
No, try this....


Difference between revisions of "6 MHz CPC" - CPCWiki
Difference between revisions of "6 MHz CPC" - CPCWiki

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Offline gerald

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #15 on: 19:36, 16 February 16 »
No, try this....


Difference between revisions of "6 MHz CPC" - CPCWiki
Difference between revisions of "6 MHz CPC" - CPCWiki
No trace of :
Code: [Select]
Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase of speed by 50% (verified with at least one CPC6128 produced 1987) until the last revision ....


Where you're wrong is by stating that Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase speed by 50%.

All CPC are made equal  from the DRAM point of view, and if you where a bit more literate on HW, you would have been able to understand that.Be the visible speed increase 16 or 50% or any %, this speed is not tailored by the DRAM speed, nor the date of production. I have no idea of the real speed increase, but saying that some CPC will have different speed boost than other is just false.

In research domain, when you find a result that is in contradiction with the other scientist on the same experiment, your first task is to clarify that them and found who is wrong, not to publish your result and say on SOME blablabla ...


Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #16 on: 19:40, 16 February 16 »
If someone could produce a video guide on how to do this and install a switch, I believe it would really help the CPC community.


Amstrad CPC Dummies guide!  :laugh: 

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #17 on: 19:44, 16 February 16 »

Obviously you are incompetent reading the history in the CPCWike. I stated 50% from the beginning. Fano added his experience with 16.7%. But you are just trolling! Stop it!!!



No trace of :
Code: [Select]
Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase of speed by 50% (verified with at least one CPC6128 produced 1987) until the last revision ....


Where you're wrong is by stating that Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase speed by 50%.

All CPC are made equal  from the DRAM point of view, and if you where a bit more literate on HW, you would have been able to understand that.Be the visible speed increase 16 or 50% or any %, this speed is not tailored by the DRAM speed, nor the date of production. I have no idea of the real speed increase, but saying that some CPC will have different speed boost than other is just false.

In research domain, when you find a result that is in contradiction with the other scientist on the same experiment, your first task is to clarify that them and found who is wrong, not to publish your result and say on SOME blablabla ...
TFM of FutureSoft
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Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #18 on: 19:45, 16 February 16 »
If someone could produce a video guide on how to do this and install a switch, I believe it would really help the CPC community.


Actually a good idea. Well, it's important to have a swtich for both pins of the crystal, but they are easily accessible and it doesn't need much solder skills. Maybe somebody can post a picture? (I can't at the moment).

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Offline gerald

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #19 on: 19:53, 16 February 16 »
Obviously you are incompetent reading the history in the CPCWike. I stated 50% from the beginning. Fano added his experience with 16.7%. But you are just trolling! Stop it!!!

Can you read  :picard2:
You added the following false statement (bold emphasis on the wrong part of the statement) : "Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase speed by 50%"


The 50% increase is expected on all CPC.

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #20 on: 19:54, 16 February 16 »
Can you read  :picard2:
You added the following false statement (bold emphasis on the wrong part of the statement) : "Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase speed by 50%"


The 50% increase is expected on all CPC.


Oh troll! That's what I told all the time! Don't you get it? Fano added the 16.7%! Here is what you wrote:

Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?


Thank's for turning another thread into a warfare. I quit this shit now, because what happen here is just beyond...


 :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2:

« Last Edit: 19:57, 16 February 16 by TFM »
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Offline gerald

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #21 on: 20:05, 16 February 16 »

Oh troll! That's what I told all the time! Don't you get it? Fano added the 16.7%! Here is what you wrote:

Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?


Thank's for turning another thread into a warfare. I quit this shit now, because what happen here is just beyond...


 :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2: :picard2:
So you keep on saying that you did not add the "Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs)" to the wiki.
And you obviously discussed with Fano about your results to understand why you got different ones , right ?
In case you're not understanding my point, I am questioning the way the speed increase are presented (some CPC will have more), not the values ...

From now, I let you on your thread.
In French we says : il n'y a pas pire aveugle que celui qui ne veut pas voir.

Offline TFM

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #22 on: 20:07, 16 February 16 »
Und wie wir in Deutsch sagen: Du bist der K├Ânig der Spitzfindigkeiten!

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Offline PulkoMandy

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #23 on: 20:12, 16 February 16 »
Where you're wrong is by stating that Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase speed by 50%.

Technically this statement is correct, until ALL CPCs have been tested and confirmed to work this way (which probably won't happen), the only thing we can say is that it works this way on some CPCs. That doesn't imply anything about the other CPCs, where this failed or was not tried. A lot of problems could arise, on early Gate Arrays which already generate a lot of heat at 4MHz, on pre-ASIC machines, or if the RAM or ROM are too slow to keep the rate.

However, I expect that it is either a 50% speed increase, or it doesn't work. 16% doesn't make much sense to me and I would expect something wrong with the experiment.

Offline gerald

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Re: Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC?
« Reply #24 on: 20:36, 16 February 16 »
However, I expect that it is either a 50% speed increase, or it doesn't work. 16% doesn't make much sense to me and I would expect something wrong with the experiment.
It's 50% or nothing (ie crash). And crash will be visible quite soon.

This is what you will find on the wiki :
Quote
Some CPCs (manufactured with fast DRAMs) show a increase of speed by 50% (verified with at least one CPC6128 produced 1987).
In case of the older DRAM type the speed improvement is only 16.7%.

1. What I am pointing out is that chapter on the wiki wrongly that let think reader that they will either get 16% or 50% according to the speed of their CPC ram.
2. TFM added this 16% or 50 % rather than correct it to 50%. And he is saying that he did not make this change (or play foul to elude that fact that he overreact to any comment on his work)