Hi All, I've made some progress and have wired up the 3.5" disk drive to the CPC, the motor starts, the head tracks however it hung on CAT. I think this is because the disk I have is MSDOS format - confirmed as it has pgagolf on the disk - remember that! So I'm looking how to format into AMSDOS format for use on the CPC. Thought I had a solution with CPCDiskXP but that isn't compatible with my usb floppy drive - the driver says that usb floppies do not support the required firmware access - and of course my PC doesn't have a floppy drive and I can't think of anyone who has a PC that does. So my question is how can I format a floppy in Windows or linux using my usb drive.
Cheers Trevor
PS I should say I currently have it rigged up as the internal disk and the 3" is disabled.
If you can set it up to be drive B: with the 3in drive as A:, then you can boot into CP/M and just use the format command.
Bryce.
Going to be tricky as I don't have an edge connector or cable yet. I was trying to prove that the disk drive would work before buying the bits to rig it up properly. My motherboard doesn't even support the old floppy interface otherwise I would rig it up like I have th CPC, thought USB would do it but appears not.....:(
Unfortunately not. I keep and old 486 laptop just for this. Alternative format programs need raw access to the drive. This isn't possible on USB drives.
Bryce.
Damn does that mean I won't be able to use the 3.5" USB drive at all?
Quote from: tjohnson on 23:35, 06 May 17
Damn does that mean I won't be able to use the 3.5" USB drive at all?
Your only other option is to see if you can borrow another USB floppy from someone? I was lucky with my one that it was compatible, but I just figured a USB floppy was a USB floppy! Granted, I bought my one way back in 2001 and I'm shocked it still works. ;)
I've no idea how old my floppy drive is, i was given it sometime ago. Ill have a word with someone today who may have a computer with a floppy drive
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 03:26, 07 May 17
Your only other option is to see if you can borrow another USB floppy from someone? I was lucky with my one that it was compatible, but I just figured a USB floppy was a USB floppy! Granted, I bought my one way back in 2001 and I'm shocked it still works. ;)
Hi Shaun, what make is your usb drive? Mine is Teac FD-05PU it doesn't work.
You can replace your AmsDOS rom with parados 1.2 then format the discs on the cpc directly. Added bonus of 800k formats!
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
Cool is that a desolder the ROM and replace job? Where do I get a Parados ROM from as I don't have any means to burn one myself?
As i understand the trouble with usb floppy drives and CPCDiskXP is that the amstrad natively only supports up to 720kb floppies and the usb drive are mostly all lazy 1.44mb only compatible. The trick with CPCDiskXP is that it does a special format of the 720k make it compatible with cpc 180k.
However there still is USB floppy drives that supports 720k you just gotta look for the ones that properly mentions it in the "specification".
If i recall right this is the one i have and it work ok with CPCDiskXP and everything (i recognize the dull noname drive, box and mini-cd):
http://www.dx.com/p/fdd-11-usb-external-fdd-floppy-drive-black-227238#.WQ7mYVXyhpg (http://www.dx.com/p/fdd-11-usb-external-fdd-floppy-drive-black-227238#.WQ7mYVXyhpg)
However that one may cost high import taxes. Probably a lot cheaper to try a local one first like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-USB-External-Floppy-Disk-Drive-3-5-FDD-1-44Mb-Data-Storage-For-PC-Laptop-/172271121118?hash=item281c28b2de:g:HwIAAOSwHMJYExBp (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-USB-External-Floppy-Disk-Drive-3-5-FDD-1-44Mb-Data-Storage-For-PC-Laptop-/172271121118?hash=item281c28b2de:g:HwIAAOSwHMJYExBp)
Do try to use genuine 720k floppies as well, at least at first when you are trying to figure out if you have a working setup or not. Aka using a 1.44 floppy with highdensity hole taped over may work just fine but wait with it for later. Also beware that floppies can have very bad quality .. like the ones that came out in the early days was 10 of 10 working, but later when floppies got dirt cheap you could open a 10 pack and 3 of them was so bad they went straight into the trash.
Note that once you can transfter over floppies, then the first thing you might want to transfter is the 2 Symbos floppies as Symbos automatically support 720k pc dos formatted floppies (all you need is a joystick to use as a "mouse"). That way you have 2 ways of transftering data.
Quote from: Cholo on 11:36, 07 May 17
As i understand the trouble with usb floppy drives and CPCDiskXP is that the amstrad natively only supports up to 720kb floppies and the usb drive are mostly all lazy 1.44mb only compatible. The trick with CPCDiskXP is that it does a special format of the 720k make it compatible with cpc 180k.
However there still is USB floppy drives that supports 720k you just gotta look for the ones that properly mentions it in the "specification".
If i recall right this is the one i have and it work ok with CPCDiskXP and everything (i recognize the dull noname drive, box and mini-cd):
http://www.dx.com/p/fdd-11-usb-external-fdd-floppy-drive-black-227238#.WQ7mYVXyhpg (http://www.dx.com/p/fdd-11-usb-external-fdd-floppy-drive-black-227238#.WQ7mYVXyhpg)
However that one may cost high import taxes. Probably a lot cheaper to try a local one first like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-USB-External-Floppy-Disk-Drive-3-5-FDD-1-44Mb-Data-Storage-For-PC-Laptop-/172271121118?hash=item281c28b2de:g:HwIAAOSwHMJYExBp (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-USB-External-Floppy-Disk-Drive-3-5-FDD-1-44Mb-Data-Storage-For-PC-Laptop-/172271121118?hash=item281c28b2de:g:HwIAAOSwHMJYExBp)
Do try to use genuine 720k floppies as well, at least at first when you are trying to figure out if you have a working setup or not. Aka using a 1.44 floppy with highdensity hole taped over may work just fine but wait with it for later. Also beware that floppies can have very bad quality .. like the ones that came out in the early days was 10 of 10 working, but later when floppies got dirt cheap you could open a 10 pack and 3 of them was so bad they went straight into the trash.
Note that once you can transfter over floppies, then the first thing you might want to transfter is the 2 Symbos floppies as Symbos automatically support 720k pc dos formatted floppies (all you need is a joystick to use as a "mouse"). That way you have 2 ways of transftering data.
So it looks like some USB floppy drives work, mine definitely doesn't but it does definitely support 720kb as I used a 720kb disk in it yesterday. Maybe I'll buy one as you suggest, the other option is to find an old computer that still has a floppy. Shame I threw my 386 away a few years ago, actually that was a long time ago, wish I had kept it now.
Quote from: tjohnson on 08:11, 07 May 17
Hi Shaun, what make is your usb drive? Mine is Teac FD-05PU it doesn't work.
It's definitely Teac something... let me check.
Teac FD-05PUB.
I'm wondering if the OS used has anything to do with it as it's what provides the drivers automatically. Maybe download Virtual PC and install a copy of Windows XP on it? But I'm running that above drive on XP with CPCDiskXP and it works fine.
Also plug it directly into the laptop and not via a hub or something, hubs can make certain USB devices do strange things. :laugh:
WAIT A SEC!
Have you blocked off the HD tab on the floppy? Use a piece of sellotape to block off the HD tab (other side of the write protect tab), It's probably trying to format 720k to a 1.38MB floppy. You need to trick the program into believing it's an older 720k floppy.
Edit: Nevermind - Cholo beat me to it...
I have 2 usb floppy drives and none of them work but they can format 720 from dos.
format a: /t:80 /n:9
There is something more than that.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 18:02, 07 May 17
WAIT A SEC!
Have you blocked off the HD tab on the floppy? Use a piece of sellotape to block off the HD tab (other side of the write protect tab), It's probably trying to format 720k to a 1.38MB floppy. You need to trick the program into believing it's an older 720k floppy.
Edit: Nevermind - Cholo beat me to it...
The disk is a DD disk, so there is not a tab to block off! Trying to format it just normally in Windows 10 it says Windows doesn't support formatting this type or something to that effect, so MS doesn't support formatting 720kb but can read it. I've connected the drive to a Windows Vista machine and CPCdiskXP can't format with the same drive. I think the issue is that its a USB floppy. I don't want to randomly start buying USB floppy drives on the chance one will work.
To make matters worse I've managed to hook the drive up via the external edge connector but can't get my 3" drive to read the CPM disks to try and format it that way. I suspect the drive needs some calibration even though it is working with some disk. This is being a tricky little so and so.
I have a Win 7 virtual machine. I'll give it a try and see what happens, might give us something to go on.
Open a cmd and type the command I wrote above in the previous post.
Tried my TEAC USB drive on Win 7. Only issue I had was there was no AMSDOS compatible format that works with USB.
It's either IBM format or ROMDOS formats that can be formatted via USB using CPCWinXP. In which case, you're out of luck unless you have ParaDOS
... although I'm certain that IBM - Single Side - 65 Tracks - 64 Dir Entries - 260K (254K Free) [Works With USB Floppy][3.5" Hack] read fine on the 3.5" hooked to the drive connector.
Quote from: VincentGR on 19:16, 07 May 17
Open a cmd and type the command I wrote above in the previous post.
will that put it into a CPC readable format?
No, I was referring to this:
Windows 10 it says Windows doesn't support formatting this type or something to that effect,
Quote from: VincentGR on 19:35, 07 May 17
No, I was referring to this:
Windows 10 it says Windows doesn't support formatting this type or something to that effect,
yep that works on Windows 10, what i need is a disk in a format that I can test on the CPC
Sorry, except the cpc format problem I thought you meant that it can't also format 720 but only read.
Quote from: VincentGR on 19:40, 07 May 17
Sorry, except the cpc format problem I thought you meant that it can't also format 720 but only read.
I assumed the format message in Windows was Microsoft deliberate obsolescence which clearly it was, I hadn't tested the old fashion way so that was useful thanks.
I know, same tells the win7-8 versions >:(
It has nothing to do with whether the physical USB drive can handle 720K disks or not. It's the fact that programs such as CPCDiskXP and others attempt to send commands directly to the drive and windows doesn't allow this. The solution was a DLL which allowed raw data to be sent to the floppy controller, but this DLL can't handle USB drives because it tries to address a real floppy controller and not a USB node.
Bryce.
Quote from: tjohnson on 10:39, 07 May 17
Cool is that a desolder the ROM and replace job? Where do I get a Parados ROM from as I don't have any means to burn one myself?
Yes it's a desolder and fit a socket for parados 1.2.
I can burn the EPROM and post it to you, F.O.C. I just need your address.
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
Quote from: CraigsBar on 00:37, 08 May 17
Yes it's a desolder and fit a socket for parados 1.2.
I can burn the EPROM and post it to you, F.O.C. I just need your address.
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
That's very generous of you, thank you, I'll ping across my address shortly. What size socket do i need is it 2x14? Cheers Trevor
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Yeah, that will do it.
https://goo.gl/images/vvmHBS
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
Quote from: tjohnson on 09:49, 08 May 17
That's very generous of you, thank you, I'll ping across my address shortly. What size socket do i need is it 2x14? Cheers Trevor
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Burned, tested, ready to post. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170508/cac05dcfb56f363d58a6ac4cb5077aa8.jpg)
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
Neat sticker
:D :D :D PM sent, looks cool with the sticker, can't wait to get this installed and fingers cross be able transfer files on the Amstrad.
Cheers Trevor
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:15, 08 May 17
Burned, tested, ready to post. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170508/cac05dcfb56f363d58a6ac4cb5077aa8.jpg)
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:15, 08 May 17
Burned, tested, ready to post.
Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk
Welllll, look at you with your fancy yellow stickers. :D
Bryce.
Hi all, I've been progressing my endeavour to get a 3.5" floppy drive working, but it is been a bit 2 steps forward, 1 step back. I've really put some time into this and sourced an ancient pc that will allow me to format floppy disks and after some efforts have got an old copy of cpcdiskxp working - this PC is running an old Pentium 1 and Windows 98SE, upgraded to Windows 2000 and the latest version won't run but 1.6 does.
On the drive front it looks like both my spare floppy drives have got some sort of fault. I've made up a basic adapter from 34pin to 28pin plus power, there are no other components on the PCB other than linking the appropriate pins, connecting the power the 28pin socket and the ground lines. The first drive seems to have an issue that when inserting a disk the drive never stops spinning. The second drive doesn't have that issue, spins the disk for a couple of seconds before stopping. I had a bit more luck with this drive and even got it to cat a disk and show it was empty but it has a weird thing going on that upon inserting a disk the head moves back to the start and then it starts glitch. I am powering the drive using a jst connector from a bench power supply set to 5v. Upon glitching it seems to affect the power supply too like it has a short but it doesn't trip the supply. I'm wondering if my adapter is causing the issue, I made it by hand soldering wires between the appropriate pins but seems ok.
My saga continues, I hope to get there soon with this!
Quote from: Bryce on 20:09, 07 May 17
It has nothing to do with whether the physical USB drive can handle 720K disks or not. It's the fact that programs such as CPCDiskXP and others attempt to send commands directly to the drive and windows doesn't allow this. The solution was a DLL which allowed raw data to be sent to the floppy controller, but this DLL can't handle USB drives because it tries to address a real floppy controller and not a USB node.
Bryce.
Does this also apply to the USB-mode in Cpcdiskxp? Wasnt the whole CPCDiskXP trick that instead of trying to force a odd small 360k format amsdos onto a 720k floppy (using controller trickery & low level driver) .. then instead "hide" the little format inside a pseudo 720k pc floppy image .. so it can be written back to USB floppy. Aka the pc thinks its a normal 720k pc image it writes, but the amstrad reads it as a normal dual 180k floppy.
I mean the pseudo "usb" image writing has worked ok on both my old pc and my current win7 one just using a usb drive. Then again i do recall it got a mixed reception back when the usb mode was added to CPCDiskXp where some could get it working and some couldnt. Dont think the reason was found back then .. people was comparing usb drives back then .. so perhaps its actually a motherboard (or similar) compatible issue aka im pretty sure the usb drive needs to be connected directly to the mobo aka not thru a frontpanel hub or similar.
Found the old thread when the pseudo usb thingy was launched with v2.5 (skip to page 2):
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/news-events/cpcdiskxp-v2-1-released/
Definately not trying to lure anyone to run out and purchace a bunch of usb-drives and getting a old pc for floppy handling is definately a good way to go (for other systems like amiga as well). If the pc is old enough you might even link up serial ports for transfter or 5,25" drive for even easier compatability as ye olde 5,25" pc drives usually have the ready signal & is 99,9% compatible with a 6128 & a unmodded floppy cable (there can be speed issue i think).
Quote from: tjohnson on 10:21, 11 May 17
.. I've made up a basic adapter from 34pin to 28pin plus power, there are no other components on the PCB other than linking the appropriate pins, connecting the power the 28pin socket and the ground lines. The first drive seems to have an issue that when inserting a disk the drive never stops spinning...
If its a normal 6128/664 (if its a 6128+ then hopefully someone can help), then all you need is a normal pc floppy cable & then short pin 33 with 34 to fake the missing "Ready signal". It a bit crude solution but it works:
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Guide_on_how_to_connect_a_3.5%22_drive_to_a_CPC6128/664 (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Guide_on_how_to_connect_a_3.5%22_drive_to_a_CPC6128/664)
oh and if you get stuck there are people on ebay (the UK one) selling premodded 6128 floppy cable ;) (or 6128+ cables too)
cholo,
Be aware I think tjohnson is trying to connect an internal floppy drive and not an external one as the link infers.
rpalmer